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Post by Dave on Sept 10, 2022 8:10:00 GMT -5
All who receive salvation under Jesus our Yashuah has to come under His banner of love. And therefore we all become "spiritual Judaism, a Hebrew, meaning to Cross OVER."
Zec 3:1-5 who issues the Divine Pardon? GOD DOES – Salvation is only from God – who came to earth as a man -
That means we also are required to have the laws in our hearts, obeying all the precepts of Jesus ordinances,
1- Love God with all your heart – i.e = serve and praise 2- Love your fellow man is He loved us – i.e. willing to lay your life down to Jer 1:5
Everything else is simply the practice of ritual / religion
until all is fulfilled and He comes to take us home. HOME – Judaism teaches that heaven is our true HOME – we are just visiting here (souljourn) You deny my teaching – you say our HOME is only biology now – and biology later MEAN WHAT YOU SAY – our people will not take you seriously
So it seems I am more of a Jew than you are Dave. WOW a contest between two men – how very petty biology of you – and who the hell cares The only thing that matters is your walk with God - Mr Judgment and the quality of your teaching
I follow all the OT and NT torah teachings in my daily life, as principles that are from love. the practice of ritual / religion
I am not aware of such things as "mandated dietary laws" ? we are required to live and eat holy food, CONTRODICTION – religious double talk
As soon as you make a VOW to God – it becomes your Law – and you better keep your self-imposed Law If you make a VOW to God – never to eat pork – but do – you are transgressing your promise to God the practice of ritual / religion
I love the way you twist Messianic quotes.... "Notice especially "The notion of a dual godhead with a Father and a Son, the notion of a Redeemer who himself will be both God and man,
D" YES – I agree – Jesus Christ was 100% Son of Man + God incarnate (the image of God – Christ)
R" Did you not catch the word "dual godhead" with a Father and a Son? God = Christ / Christ = God – what is so complicated?
Your view has no godhead, you have a Father and a Father expressed as a Son on earth. So when the expression required in heaven as a high priest, is the expression still an expression, or does the Father become our High Priest? I have NO IDEA of the jumble of words you have here in an attempt to misrepresent me
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Word → word with God + word is God Father →Spirit + image Father, Son, and Holy Spirit TRINITY
If you say the expression becomes our High Priest, you have formed a clone of the Father. SO we have three clones or two clones of the Father in heaven, so you stick to you monotheism.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Father Creator that no man can see Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: The Glory of God – Holy Spirit Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. Image of God – Christ
Please explain to me your clone idea – How many clones are there in this passage? How many Gods are in this passage? Please explain to me how Moses was able to glimpse 3 different gods
Sorry Robert – There is only One True God And since you do not support Jews or even Messianic Jews, STOP talking about them then. THE ONLY CONTEXT THAT MATTERS is the teaching of Jesus Christ He was a Jew from a Jewish culture – His disciples were all Jewish – His followers were all Jewish – the First Christians were Messianic Jewish - all the First to receive Pentecost were Messianic Jewish
THE ONLY CONTEXT THAT MATTERS is the teaching of Jesus Christ The disciples of Jesus Christ walked and talked with Him both before and after is passion Before the Cross - the disciples of Jesus Christ spoke to Him in private and in groups After the Resurrection - the disciples of Jesus Christ spoke to Him in private and in groups
THE ONLY CONTEXT THAT MATTERS is the teaching of Jesus Christ Original Messianic Judaism was Pentecostal – and taught the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
THE ONLY CONTEXT THAT MATTERS is the teaching of Jesus Christ And in this context – NT satanas = Beelzebub and the shedim And in this context – NT satanas = THE BEAST OF REVELATION – the serpent race we call devils And in this context – NT satanas = The First Archon and the archon And in this context - it was all created by God for God
You deny it all to defend Roman Catholic doctrine – so you can have a god of evil to blame your sin upon
So if you are a NT Christian, where is the NT assembly you support and go to? Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. A NT ordinance here says you are to assembly the brothers every Sabbath, so what church of assembly do you attend that matches your theories of faith?
As soon as you make a VOW to God – it becomes your Law – and you better keep your self-imposed Law the practice of ritual / religion
Fellowship is a 24/7 action verb to Jer 1:5 If you are following the commandments of Jesus Christ then 1- Love God – serve and praise Him 2- Love your fellow man as Christ loved us – willing to die to Jer 1:5
It has NOTHING to do with one day a week or a building of religious doctrine
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2022 15:52:15 GMT -5
Explain to me how keeping the greatest law of love of them all, nullifies the need to keep all the other minor laws of love?
Mt 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (KJV)
And what exactly are the commandments of GOD?
Jas 2:8 ¶ If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James speaks of the greatest of all love principles, but also adds that offending the least of the love principles offends all of them.
And why are these laws termed royal torah?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James speaks of offending GOD merely by not offering food needs to the poor, as well as saying if faith has no works, your faith is dead.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
SO what exactly are the Father commandments, that Jesus kept, as well as the commandments Jesus expects his disciples to keep?
And you say keeping the greatest one of them all is sufficient?
D"1- Love God – serve and praise Him
R" OK, how do you praise and serve HIM?
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:
You please and praise the Father by doing faith.
And how do you do faith? By speaking the Father's words ? Not just the greatest words of them all, but any one of all the words of the Father as a prayer faith promise. Otherwise Dave has reduced the torah down to one verse.... why did GOD write books of messages when one verse is sufficient for GOD?
So let me guess, Jesus never kept Sabbath, Jesus lied, and was a false witness? Jesus never wore tassels on his garments, He never kept the feasts, Jesus wounded people robbing them of their chances of salvation? Jesus insulted humans, and laughed at them? After all, all that is required according to you, is to....
1- Love God – serve and praise Him 2- Love your fellow man as Christ loved us – willing to die to Jer 1:5
How does a Father expression serve a Father expression and praise a Father expression? Your theories are absurd. Sounds narcissistic? No demonstration of love at all. Self love at best, certainly not relational love. Because your God has no relational members within a godhead, what the Messianic quote is talking about, a real divine Father and a real divine Son. Not expressions as you claim. One wonders where you get your stuff from, certainly not the Messianic Jew.
And if the Father expression died, how can the died one come back to life? The Father raised the Father expression. Well than the Father expression never truly died did it? SO your theory is absurd once again.
D"It has NOTHING to do with one day a week or a building of religious doctrine
R" you seem afraid of doctrines? Afraid you drink Roman edit doctrine, but you happily drink Gnostic doctrines? What's the difference?
Re 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Wine is a poetry simile of doctrines, from the SHEDIM, so how do you stop yourself drinking the false doctrines of the SHEDIM Dave? How do you keep yourself from being deceived?
You simply follow one pithy command, and this command enables you to love the Father so well, you are never deceived by anything the SHEDIM throw at you?
But you even took the COV19 vaccines, both you and you wife? So explain to me how a loving GOD can write all the anti-deceptions of the SHEDIM into one pithy command, and that is all that is necessary to follow
1- Love God – serve and praise Him
2- Love your fellow man as Christ loved us – willing to die to Jer 1:5
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 11, 2022 9:07:12 GMT -5
Explain to me how keeping the greatest law of love of them all, nullifies the need to keep all the other minor laws of love? IT CAN NOT NULLIFY ANYTHING – it is only service and praise
Mt 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
YES – God came into physical world – and endured all its hardships and temptations – JUST TO WITNESS YES – our purpose – our commission – the meaning of life = Jer 1:5 IT CAN NOT NULLIFY ANYTHING – it is only service and praise
The only NULLIFICATION = THE FORGIVENESS of the DIVINE PARDON You will wake up in heaven one day face to face with your creator A long list of sins before you - all the times you tried to hide from God – lied to God – made empty promises to God – cheated on God – acted like ab animal right in front of God – the list is too long Paul Romans chapter 7 – animal / spirit conflict – miserable man that I am
You convict yourself – you commit spiritual suicide – your choice YOU UNDERSTAND FINALLY JUST HOW UNDESERVING YOU ARE!
And GOD says – I forgive you anyway – because of your belief (John 3:16) The only NULLIFICATION = THE FORGIVENESS of the DIVINE PARDON -----------------------
Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
YES – Scripture says the PLAN = create a reality with choice → reset → create a reality with choice → reset → create a reality with choice → reset → create a reality with choice → FINAL RESET
Creation to Adam Eve to Noah Flood to Nimrod Babel to Abraham Isaac to Egypt Egypt to Moses Joshua to Saul David to Jesus The Age of the Gentile → create a reality with choice → reset Age of the Gentile to the end times Tribulation to the New Heaven and Earth → create a reality with choice → FINAL RESET
Ecc 3:1 For everything there is a season and a time for every activity under heaven: Ecc 3:15 Whatever exists, has already been and whatever will be, has already been, but God recalls what has passed.
Ecc 3:17 I said in my heart: “The righteous and the wicked, God will judge. For there is a time for every activity and for every deed.” Ecc 3:18 I also said in my heart, “As for the sons of man, God tests them so that they may see that they are but animals.” Ecc 3:19 For the destiny of humankind and the destiny of animals are one and the same. As one dies, so dies the other. Both have the same breath—a human has no advantage over an animal—both are fleeting. Ecc 3:20 Both go to one place. Both were taken from the dust, and both return to the dust. Ecc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth?
→ create a reality with choice →
Why does God test man – to prove that Paul Romans chapter 7 is correct – animal / spirit conflict Why did Jesus die upon the cross – to prove … that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward LIFE LIVES ... DIFFERENT THAN …the animal’s spirit descends into the earth
Authoritative Teaching And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world -------------------
And what exactly are the commandments of GOD? Jas 2:8 -10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James speaks of the greatest of all love principles, but also adds that offending the least of the love principles offends all of them. YES – IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP THE LAW - all men are sinners – Paul Romans chapter 7
Rom 7:24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God—it is through Messiah Yeshua our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself serve the Torah of God; but with my flesh, I serve the law of sin.
And GOD says – I forgive you anyway – because of your belief (john 3:16) The only NULLIFICATION = THE FORGIVENESS of the DIVINE PARDON -------------------------------
And why are these laws termed royal torah? Jas 2:15 -17 - Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. James speaks of offending GOD merely by not offering food needs to the poor, as well as saying if faith has no works, your faith is dead.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
SO what exactly are the Father commandments, that Jesus kept, as well as the commandments Jesus expects his disciples to keep?
You have been a Christian for how long? Your teaching – all men are the HS – which is the Spirit of God – God invisible If you saw God cold – hungry – in need – what would you do? ANSWER – you would love HIM – feed HIM – and praise HIM as you did
MOVIE recommendation = the 4th Wiseman (Christian movie) 4 Wisemen set out for the birth of Jesus But the 4th Wiseman’s servant broke his leg – so he stayed behind to help Then another need help – then another Finally he arrives in Jerusalem just in time to see Jesus crucified The 4th Wiseman was so ashamed – all he wanted to do is serve his lord – and missed it Jesus appears to him – every time he stopped to help – he was serving HIM – over and over
MOVIE AMISH GRACE Man kills this Amish woman’s 13 and 8 year old daughters So the Amish woman – forgives When asked how could she She said easy – I wake up and give it to God – take a step and give it to God -another step and another prayer – one step after another – one prayer after another – until she sleeps again
You are a Jew far from the Temple – how do you sacrifice = Korbats (act like a Christian) Give of yourself – to the needy – the poor – the widows – the orphans Community service
WITNESS
If We Are the Body - Song by Casting Crowns But if we are the body Why aren't his arms reaching? Why aren't his hands healing? Why aren't his words teaching?
And if we are the body Why aren't his feet going? Why is his love not showing them There is a way, there is a way
And you say keeping the greatest one of them all is sufficient? D"1- Love God – serve and praise Him R" OK, how do you praise and serve HIM? WITNESS THE TRUTH – don’t be a follower – be a DISCIPLE – be a Christ to others
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: You please and praise the Father by doing faith. And how do you do faith? By speaking the Father's words ? - WITNESS Not just the greatest words of them all, but any one of all the words – THE TRUTH
Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you are able to stand against the schemes of the devil. Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist when the times are evil, and after you have done everything, to stand firm. Eph 6:14 Stand firm then! Buckle the belt of truth around your waist, and put on the breastplate of righteousness. Eph 6:15 Strap up your feet in readiness with the Good News of shalom. Eph 6:16 Above all, take up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Eph 6:18 Pray in the Ruach on every occasion, with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, keep alert with perseverance and supplication for all the kedoshim. -----------------------
So let me guess, Jesus never kept Sabbath, Jesus lied, and was a false witness? Jesus never wore tassels on his garments, He never kept the feasts, Jesus wounded people robbing them of their chances of salvation? Jesus insulted humans, and laughed at them? After all, all that is required according to you, is to.... SEE THIS – make a conversation with you so rewarding you insulting ASS that just like to MOCK scripture Misrepresent away Robert – it is your only solution
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2022 15:04:12 GMT -5
Greetings Dave D" IT CAN NOT NULLIFY ANYTHING
R" good, than you also support the royal torah, and guard the ten commandments of the Father than? D" You will wake up in heaven one day face to face with your creator A long list of sins before you - all the times you tried to hide from God – lied to God – made empty promises to God – cheated on God – acted like ab animal right in front of God – the list is too long
R" My list of missing Dave, is all the day's events, I didn't pray for God's presence. I undid the nut/bolt and got stressed, the steel rod didn't line up properly because I forget to pray and my mind wandered, my welding was poor and didn't stick properly, etc, etc, not thinking of God and working with His skills. So I kneel and pray for God's presence and His wisdom and skills to make and do things correctly. D" Ecc 3:19 For the destiny of humankind and the destiny of animals are one and the same. As one dies, so dies the other. Both have the same breath—a human has no advantage over an animal—both are fleeting. Ecc 3:20 Both go to one place. Both were taken from the dust, and both return to the dust. Ecc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth?R" Why do you post this? If a animal spirit goes downwards, what does this mean? Neither man or animal has an advantage? So life does not live? You cannot make one case do something different for the other case. Animal spirit goes down, but man's spirit lives on? Not what this passage is saying, neither have advantage. D" Why does God test man – to prove that Paul Romans chapter 7 is correct – animal / spirit conflict Why did Jesus die upon the cross – to prove … that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward LIFE LIVES ... DIFFERENT THAN …the animal’s spirit descends into the earthR" Now you speak of an entirely different context. If the man has a spirit that lives, why does it need testing? So Jesus only died to prove man's spirit ascends when the body dies? Is that it? No sacrifice for sins? no atonement? D" wishing to make the contestants appear, R" No reason given, just because Father wanted this.... D" being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth.
R" WHAT? Adversaries ? who is this Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth? Are your Gnostic teachings saying you have an Inscrutable One ? An Adversary? Please explain Dave. I cannot find any WWW reference to where you got this from? Do you have a link? D" YES – IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP THE LAW - all men are sinners – R" Not impossible to keep the Law, you speak the words of the promise and Jesus power enters you and you are able to keep the laws of that promise. All you have to do is speak His words and let Him some in and support you, as you support Him. The process is called faith. Problem is we are found missing. Meaning we often fail to speak the words, we have minds doubting, we are like two face, we speak with arrogance, not humility, etc, etc. D" The only NULLIFICATION = THE FORGIVENESS of the DIVINE PARDONR" read this parable Mt 21:28 ¶ But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. 30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. 31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you Jesus is going to ask you one question, I gave you my book full of my words, did you speak my words in your heart using my words? D" If you saw God cold – hungry – in need – what would you do? ANSWER – you would love HIM – feed HIM – and praise HIM as you didR" Well said Dave. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 12, 2022 6:20:49 GMT -5
D"Ecc 3:19 For the destiny of humankind and the destiny of animals are one and the same. As one dies, so dies the other. Both have the same breath—a human has no advantage over an animal—both are fleeting. Ecc 3:20 Both go to one place. Both were taken from the dust, and both return to the dust. Ecc 3:21 Who knows that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward and the animal’s spirit descends into the earth? R" Why do you post this? If a animal spirit goes downwards, what does this mean? Neither man or animal has an advantage? So life does not live? You cannot make one case do something different for the other case. Animal spirit goes down, but man's spirit lives on? Not what this passage is saying, neither have advantage. Both mortal – both 3D biology – Both die a mortal death Animal spirit – lost Man’s spirit LIVES and returns to GodD"Why does God test man – to prove that Paul Romans chapter 7 is correct – animal / spirit conflict Why did Jesus die upon the cross – to prove … that the spirit of the sons of man ascends upward LIFE LIVES ... DIFFERENT THAN …the animal’s spirit descends into the earth R" Now you speak of an entirely different context. If the man has a spirit that lives, why does it need testing? So Jesus only died to prove man's spirit ascends when the body dies? Is that it? No sacrifice for sins? no atonement? You are only embarrassing yourself RobertJoh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. WHY DO YOU DENY THE NEW TESTAMENTAuthoritative TeachingAnd before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish. He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists. And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world D"wishing to make the contestants appear, R" No reason given, just because Father wanted this.... the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory,D"being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. R" WHAT? Adversaries ? WORLD – archon – sometimes other men – THE BEAST - that we call devils and satanas - DUHwho is this Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth? You really do not know who created you? Are you serious?Are your Gnostic teachings saying you have an Inscrutable One ? Job 11:7 Can you discover the mysteries of God? Can you find the limits of Shaddai? Isa 55:8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways.” It is a declaration of Adonai. Isa 55:9 “For as the heavens are higher than earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts. An Adversary? Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. Please explain Dave. I cannot find any WWW reference to where you got this from? Do you have a link? Have quoted the same quote to you many times – from exactly the same source Your pretend ignorance is self-evidentD"YES – IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP THE LAW - all men are sinners – R" Not impossible to keep the Law, - Your claim to perfection is arrogantAll you have to do is – Your claim to perfection is arrogantProblem is we are found missing – YEP – THAT’s THE PROBLEM
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2022 15:37:15 GMT -5
D"And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world
This Gnostic passage says the adversaries were created by the Father-GOD on purpose to detain man in the world.
Where does the Moses torah say that GOD created shedim to detain man in the world? to test man, and help man sin?
The Bible doesn't say this, only Daves Gnostic writings say this ....?
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I quote many verses from John
1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Every human except Jesus was born on earth, we choose to become sinning. Jesus did not choose any sinning, He obeyed His Father's commandments perfectly. This proves the commandments are always necessary for life, and cannot be removed from the Christians living. Jesus left us an example that we should walk as He walked.
1Jo 2:1 ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Jesus atones for our sins, notice both the Father and Jesus are mentioned.
1Jo 2:18 ¶ Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
John warns of us about deception.
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Dave you deny a real divine Father and a real divine Son. I showed you the Messianic emails also speak of a dual godhead, with a Father and a Son.
You deny this, you have a Father and a Father expressing Himself as a Son on earth, does this Son expression continue as a High Priest in heaven?
1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
If you have faith in Jesus, you do not sin, for faith opposes sin. If you do things without faith, than you can sin. But doing things in faith in Jesus, you do not sin, because Jesus is doing things in you, not yourself under Self.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Sin comes from devil, or Hebrew SHEDIM. It says here the SHEDIM SINNED from the beginning. Wow, so the first creature to have sinned was the SHEDIM. Not man, John says this here too. Fancy John writing there? Where did he get this idea from? Not from Ezekiel by any chance?
Jesus purpose was to destroy the sinning shedim... (not as your claim - to prove life lives after mortal death)
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Notice born of GOD, one cannot sin, because faith opposes sin.
1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him?
Your a Greek scholar, Cain who was of that wicked Shedim, so the Shedim is the same nature as Cain, a murderer. Didn't Jesus say the shedim is a murderer from the beginning and a father of lies?
So Jesus is saying the chief SHEDIM is a sinning creature as well, as John.
1Jo 4:14 ¶ And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
Notice John says that the Father dwells in Jesus, now as you say the Father expression is Jesus, than how can the Father dwell in the Father expression?
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Notice faith is the key to living a sinless life in Jesus, all you do is speak faith and Jesus keeps you sinless.
1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Not all missing we do is unto death, because Jesus can overlook your missing in Him, and thus continue to save you. That is gospel wonderful news.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 13, 2022 5:51:34 GMT -5
D"And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world
This Gnostic passage says the adversaries were created by the Father-GOD on purpose to detain man in the world.
Where does the Moses torah say that GOD created shedim to detain man in the world? to test man, and help man sin?
The Bible doesn't say this, only Daves Gnostic writings say this ....?
Daves says Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 He was with God in the beginning. Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being.
Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. Rev 12:9 … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satanas, who deceives the whole world.
Col 1:15 He (Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. Col 1:17 He exists before everything, and in Him all holds together.
Christ is the Creator Christ is the image of God Made it all by Him for Him
WHY DO YOU DENY THE NEW TESTAMENT and call it GNOSTIC -----------------
I quote many verses from John 1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. YES – your claim to perfection os arrogant
1Jo 2:1 ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Jesus atones for our sins, notice both the Father and Jesus (Christ) are mentioned.
John warns of us about deception. 1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Dave you deny a real divine Father and a real divine Son. I showed you the Messianic emails also speak of a dual godhead, with a Father and a Son.
You deny this, you have a Father and a Father expressing Himself as a Son on earth, does this Son expression continue as a High Priest in heaven? DUH – Embarrass yourself much? ------------------------
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Sin comes from devil, or Hebrew SHEDIM. - sure
It says here the SHEDIM SINNED from the beginning. Wow, so the first creature to have sinned was the SHEDIM. Not man, John says this here too. Fancy John writing there? Where did he get this idea from? Not from Ezekiel by any chance?
NOPE – John wrote Rev 12:1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Rev 12:2 She is pregnant—crying out in birth pains, in agony to give birth. Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. Jesus purpose was to destroy the sinning shedim... (not as your claim - to prove life lives after mortal death) BE HONEST with scripture – is there a chance you will stop misrepresenting scripture for sport that he might destroy the works of the devil
Authoritative Teaching In this very way we exist in this world, like fish. The adversary spies on us, lying in wait for us like a fisherman, wishing to seize us, rejoicing that he might swallow us. For he places many foods before our eyes (things) which belong to this world. He wishes to make us desire one of them and to taste only a little, so that he may seize us with his hidden poison and bring us out of freedom and take us into slavery. For whenever he catches us with a single food, it is indeed necessary for us to desire the rest. Finally, then, such things become the food of death.
Now these are the foods with which the devil lies in wait for us. First he injects a pain into your heart until you have heartache on account of a small thing of this life, and he seizes (you) with his poisons. And afterward (he injects) the desire of a tunic, so that you will pride yourself in it, and love of money, pride, vanity, envy that rivals another envy, beauty of body, fraudulence. The greatest of all these are ignorance and ease.
Now all such things the adversary prepares beautifully and spreads out before the body, wishing to make the mind of the soul incline her toward one of them and overwhelm her, like a hook, drawing her by force in ignorance, deceiving her until she conceives evil, and bears fruit of matter, and conducts herself in uncleanness, pursuing many desires, covetousnesses, while fleshly pleasure draws her in ignorance.
But the soul - she who has tasted these things - realized that sweet passions are transitory. She had learned about evil; she went away from them and she entered into a new conduct. Afterwards she despises this life, because it is transitory. And she looks for those foods that will take her into life, and leaves behind her those deceitful foods. And she learns about her light, as she goes about stripping off this world, while her true garment clothes her within, (and) her bridal clothing is placed upon her in beauty of mind, not in pride of flesh. And she learns about her depth and runs into her fold, while her shepherd stands at the door. In return for all the shame and scorn, then, that she received in this world, she receives ten thousand times the grace and glory. ---------------
Your a Greek scholar, Cain who was of that wicked Shedim, so the Shedim is the same nature as Cain, a murderer. Didn't Jesus say the shedim is a murderer from the beginning and a father of lies? So Jesus is saying the chief SHEDIM is a sinning creature as well, as John. YEP – WORLD – world – desire for world – all world
1Jo 4:14 ¶ And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
Notice John says that the Father dwells in Jesus, now as you say the Father expression is Jesus, than how can the Father dwell in the Father expression?
Jesus Christ = Jesus + Christ Jesus Christ = (Jesus flesh) + (Christ - Spirit) Jesus = biology (yester ra) / Christ = God incarnate (yester tov – God Himself – HS – Christ) Jesus Christ = Jesus God = Jesus HS Jesus died upon the cross as all mortals do - tomb/grave Christ/God/HS was released / poured out / let go back into heaven
Your issue is – How can God be in two places at the same time Everyone else’s answer = God is omnipresent – DUH – two places or 8.945x10127 places – all the same
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Notice faith is the key to living a sinless life in Jesus, all you do is speak faith and Jesus keeps you sinless. TO OVERCOME THE WORLD – VICTORY OVER THE WORLD
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2022 15:33:38 GMT -5
D"Christ is the Creator Christ is the image of God Made it all by Him for Him
WHY DO YOU DENY THE NEW TESTAMENT and call it GNOSTIC
R" It says Jesus created all sinless creatures, yes, but did not say Jesus created sinning creatures. SIN is a condition not created by GOD, and this makes your Gnostic writings different to the torah writings. Your Gnostic writings say the archon creature immediately sinned becoming arrogant....is a complete myth.
D"God the Father – beyound man or man’s ability to comprehend Exo 33:21 Then Adonai said, “See, a place near Me—you will stand on the rock. Exo 33:22 While My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and cover you with My hand, until I have passed by. The Glory of God that passes by – the Spirit of God / Holy Exo 33:23 Then I will take away My hand, and you will see My back, but My face will not be seen.”
R" That divine Being that passed by the rock was Jesus-YHWH, not the Father-YHWH, and Moses saw the face of a personal Saviour, called Jesus-YHWH, not the Father-YHWH.
Can I prove this? Yes
Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an "Messenger" before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
The Father sent a Messenger to do the rescue of Israel.
Ge 16:7 ¶ And the Messenger of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness,
Messenger of YHWH, this story repeats in the NT, where the messenger of YHWH sat also at a well.
Ex 3:2 And the Messenger of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush:
Notice the terms change
Ex 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
So this passage proves the Messenger of the LORD is also one of the members of Elohiym. ----------------
RP" You deny this, you have a Father and a Father expressing Himself as a Son on earth, does this Son expression continue as a High Priest in heaven? D" DUH – Embarrass yourself much? R" Can't you answer questions about your theology? Apparently not.
RP" 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Sin comes from devil, or Hebrew SHEDIM. D" - sure R" That's funny years ago you said the shedim have no free will, and do not really sin, now you say the shedim have free will and really do sin, like humans do.
Have you done a flip flop Dave?
D"BE HONEST with scripture – is there a chance you will stop misrepresenting scripture for sport that he might destroy the works of the devil R" Why does Jesus destroy the SHedim, because they SIN.
D"Now all such things the adversary prepares beautifully and spreads out before the body, wishing to make the mind of the soul incline her toward one of them and overwhelm her, like a hook, R" Why must you quote the GNostic writings for inspiration, I can do the same, with same themes from the torah
Hab 1:14 And makest men as the fishes of the sea, as the creeping things, that have no ruler over them? 15 They take up all of them with the angle, they catch them in their net, and gather them in their drag: therefore they rejoice and are glad. 16 Therefore they sacrifice unto their net, and burn incense unto their drag; because by them their portion is fat, and their meat plenteous.
Same imagery, same poetry similes, I do not need any other uninspired writings.
RP" Your a Greek scholar, Cain who was of that wicked Shedim, so the Shedim is the same nature as Cain, a murderer. Didn't Jesus say the shedim is a murderer from the beginning and a father of lies? So Jesus is saying the chief SHEDIM is a sinning creature as well, as John. D" YEP – R" You are a big writer Dave.
RP" It says here the SHEDIM SINNED from the beginning. Wow, so the first creature to have sinned was the SHEDIM. Not man, John says this here too. Fancy John writing there? Where did he get this idea from? Not from Ezekiel by any chance?
D" NOPE – John wrote R" John didn't write anything, He was in vision and was told what to write. Re 1:1 ...which God gave unto JOHN, to shew unto JOHN things which must shortly come to pass;
Secondly before JOHN got this vision, the only Scriptures JOHN had to read was the OT torah. DUH
Revelation didn't exist?
So JOHN wrote
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. The SHEDIM sinned first before humans existed.
John says so. But Dave ignores yet another verse of confirming what Ezekiel says.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 14, 2022 12:11:02 GMT -5
D"Christ is the Creator Christ is the image of God Made it all by Him for Him WHY DO YOU DENY THE NEW TESTAMENT and call it GNOSTIC R" It says Jesus created all sinless creatures, yes, but did not say Jesus created sinning creatures. WHO CREATED MAN – your satan?
R" That divine Being that passed by the rock was Jesus-YHWH, not the Father-YHWH, and Moses saw the face of a personal Saviour, called Jesus-YHWH, not the Father-YHWH.
Salvation of the Lord – 254 matches in 38 verses Lord of my salvation – 63 matches in 10 verses
Of course salvation is of the Lord Of course the Lord is the Lord of my salvation
Can I prove this? Yes Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an "Messenger" before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. Actually there are two messengers The Father sent a Messenger to do the rescue of Israel. Ge 16:7 ¶ And the Messenger of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, Messenger of YHWH, this story repeats in the NT, where the messenger of YHWH sat also at a well. Ex 3:2 And the Messenger of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: Actually there are two messengers Notice the terms change Ex 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. So this passage proves the Messenger of the LORD is also one of the members of Elohiym. THIS PASSAGE PROVES THE MESSENGER IS THE LORD ----------------
RP" You deny this, you have a Father and a Father expressing Himself as a Son on earth, does this Son expression continue as a High Priest in heaven? D" DUH – Embarrass yourself much? R" Can't you answer questions about your theology? Apparently not. ASK a serious question Your attempt to MOCK SCRIPTURE and Christianity is REJECTED ------------------------
RP" 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Sin comes from devil, or Hebrew SHEDIM. D" - sure R" That's funny years ago you said the shedim have no free will, and do not really sin, now you say the shedim have free will and really do sin, like humans do. Have you done a flip flop Dave?
Pretend anything you want to Robert – you sure love your satan god and will do or say anything in support of him
"Within limitless realms dwells incorruptibility. Sophia, who is called Pistis, wanted to create something, alone without her consort; and her product was a celestial thing. A veil exists between the world above and the realms that are below; and shadow came into being beneath the veil; and that shadow became matter; and that shadow was projected apart. And what she had created became a product in the matter, like an aborted fetus. And it assumed a plastic form molded out of shadow, and became an arrogant beast resembling a lion. It was androgynous, as I have already said, because it was from matter that it derived.
Rev 12:1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Rev 12:2 She is pregnant—crying out in birth pains, in agony to give birth. Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.
And he said, "If any other thing exists before me, let it become visible to me!" And immediately Sophia stretched forth her finger and introduced light into matter; and she pursued it down to the region of chaos. And she returned up to her light; once again darkness [...] matter.
This ruler, by being androgynous, made himself a vast realm, an extent without limit. And he contemplated creating offspring for himself, and created for himself seven offspring, androgynous just like their parent. And he said to his offspring, "It is I who am god of the entirety."
And Zoe (Life), the daughter of Pistis Sophia, cried out and said to him, "You are mistaken, Sakla!" – for which the alternative name is Yaltabaoth. She breathed into his face, and her breath became a fiery angel for her; and that angel bound Yaldabaoth and cast him down into Tartaros below the abyss.
Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep,
The only scripture reference to sinning angels =
2Pe 2:4 For God did not spare angels when they sinned, but threw them into Sheol. He put them in chains of gloomy darkness, to be held until the judgment.
Jud 1:6 And the angels—who did not keep their own position of authority but deserted their proper place—He has kept in everlasting shackles under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great Day.
If this is in reference to Robert’s satan – then Eph 6:12 means NOTHING – because there is no opposing force – all locked away until judgment day
Dave is a New Testament Christian – I accept Eph 6:12 – there is a very real unseen opposing force arrayed against man – OUR REAL ENEMY
“Just outside our field of vision – are entites that are anything but human – that have been manipulating our world from the outside for eons – some people call them demonic – some call them the serpent race – Islam calls them the Jinn” – David Ike King Solomon called them shedim The authors of the NEW TESTAMENT and the agl - called them archon
Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world.
Precept upon precept, line upon line They have nothing to do with Hebrew satan or Ezk 28 – or Catholic Fallen angels ----------------------
D"BE HONEST with scripture – is there a chance you will stop misrepresenting scripture for sport that he might destroy the works of the devil R" Why does Jesus destroy the SHedim, because they SIN.
You quoted - 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Where does this verse call for the destruction of the shedim – or even the devil? D"BE HONEST with scripture --------------------
D"Now all such things the adversary prepares beautifully and spreads out before the body, wishing to make the mind of the soul incline her toward one of them and overwhelm her, like a hook, R" Why must you quote the GNostic writings for inspiration, I can do the same, with same themes from the torah
Hab 1:14 And makest men as the fishes of the sea, as the creeping things, that have no ruler over them? 15 They take up all of them with the angle, they catch them in their net, and gather them in their drag: therefore they rejoice and are glad. 16 Therefore they sacrifice unto their net, and burn incense unto their drag; because by them their portion is fat, and their meat plenteous.
Same imagery, same poetry similes, I do not need any other uninspired writings.
Then why do you say one is absolute complete error and one is inspired Just how do you apply the Robert double standard? There is truth in the Gnostic writing – or the Tanak is a lie – you pick ----------------------------
RP" Your a Greek scholar, Cain who was of that wicked Shedim, so the Shedim is the same nature as Cain, a murderer. Didn't Jesus say the shedim is a murderer from the beginning and a father of lies? So Jesus is saying the chief SHEDIM is a sinning creature as well, as John. D" YEP – R" You are a big writer Dave. WORLD – GREED – WANT DESIRE FOR WORLD – ENVY IN YOUR OWN MIND
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire. Jas 1:15 Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is full grown, it brings forth death.
Desire for what – desire to hate God as Robert teaches? Deisre for WORLD - WEALTH – POWER – FAME -------------------------------------
RP" It says here the SHEDIM SINNED from the beginning. Wow, so the first creature to have sinned was the SHEDIM. Gen 1:2 – before man
D" NOPE – John wrote R" John didn't write anything, He was in vision and was told what to write. So – the Book of Revelation is also a forgery – just how much scripture do you need to deny or therow away to maintain your satan god
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2022 14:08:29 GMT -5
Greetings
If you care to read your last post, you have the same sinning Shedim, belief as I have.
You agree the Shedim sinned before man
Gen 1:2 – before man
You consider there is truth in the Gnostic writings
There is truth in the Gnostic writing
However, Dave considers all the sinning shedim, are lock up in Prison
The only scripture reference to sinning angels =
2Pe 2:4 For God did not spare angels when they sinned, but threw them into Sheol. He put them in chains of gloomy darkness, to be held until the judgment
The word "angels" here is "messengers".
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Same Greek word, with the chief Shedim and His angels, to be destroyed in the everlasting fire.
Where does this verse call for the destruction of the shedim – or even the devil?
I showed you the verse above.
The only obstacle is your insistence that all the angels are locked in prison? The scriptures does not say ALL of them are locked in chains, ....
Re 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
This passage shows that the bottomless pit, is earth itself, and the prison house is earth itself. Why the need to chain up the chief Shedim if He was already chained up?
I think you are putting too much emphasis on one theme, and overlooking the messages of Scripture. Many shedim ran out of the possessed man into a lake of pigs, proving not all messengers are locked up.
Dave loves his inspired Gnostic writings"
Within limitless realms dwells incorruptibility. Sophia, who is called Pistis,
R" How can Wisdom be called Faith? Faith is an action, not a Name.
wanted to create something, alone without her consort; and her product was a celestial thing.
Creating without her consort? But you make this complex, the left hand of the Father can create without the right hand knowing it's creating?
A veil exists between the world above and the realms that are below; and shadow came into being beneath the veil; and that shadow became matter; and that shadow was projected apart. And what she had created became a product in the matter, like an aborted fetus. And it assumed a plastic form molded out of shadow, and became an arrogant beast resembling a lion. It was androgynous, as I have already said, because it was from matter that it derived.
Where does Scripture speak of animal creatures created both gender male and gender female? And where does Scripture speak of created creatures sinning immediately upon its creation?
Rev 12:1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Rev 12:2 She is pregnant—crying out in birth pains, in agony to give birth. Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.
R" Your posting these verses to support your Gnostic tale is wrong. The Rev is NOT speaking of the creation of some "double sex creature" as you claim.
Re 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
It says the HS gives birth to a "man child", who is "Jesus clad in humanity"... NOT your chief shedim sinning creature.
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
It also says the chief Shedim and his angels were at war over GOD and His angels.
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.
Opening his eyes he immediately sins.... how is this a choice of sinning? Your Gnostic writings imply one is created sinning, not choose to do sinning. I posted this "sinned against the entirety" before but you ignore the fact your chief shedim sinned. And His angels also sinned.
But your GNostic says the "double sex shedim" made his own offspring and so they were sinning angels with him? No where does Scripture say this idea.
androgynous just like their parent. How you mocked me with Satan creating other creations, and yet your Gnostic writings say exactly this, that the chief Shedim created other offspring like himself.
This is absurd. No wonder I reject Gnostic writings. You are right "Satan chief sinning shedim" is no second creator, not a creative creature at all. But your Gnostic writing say otherwise. And you pick the writings you like and ignore the writings you don't like, how it that truth Dave? It's delusionary at best.
D" just how much scripture do you need to deny or therow away to maintain your satan god
R" You are speaking out yourself. You have some satan god, who is androgynous, and creates offspring, and sinned immediately as it was created by the WISDOM-FAITH (HS) how is this possible? Creating a creature to be sinning?
And he said, "If any other thing exists before me, let it become visible to me!" And immediately Sophia stretched forth her finger and introduced light into matter; and she pursued it down to the region of chaos. And she returned up to her light; once again darkness [...] matter.
This ruler, by being androgynous, made himself a vast realm, an extent without limit. And he contemplated creating offspring for himself, and created for himself seven offspring, androgynous just like their parent. And he said to his offspring, "It is I who am god of the entirety."
And Zoe (Life), the daughter of Pistis Sophia, cried out and said to him, "You are mistaken, Sakla!" – for which the alternative name is Yaltabaoth. She breathed into his face, and her breath became a fiery angel for her; and that angel bound Yaldabaoth and cast him down into Tartaros below the abyss.
The final end of your chief sinning shedim is to be cast into "Tartaros below the abyss." is exactly what Scripture calls earth, formless and void, where darkness reigns, where all the other sinning shedim (angels) are also locked up.
This Gnostic writing is full of holes, only I am allowed to comment upon the good bits you post, whereas the whole of the Hebrew torah is inspired, not just the good bits.
It's funny you support the idea that the archons are rulers ruling over humans on earth, yet the chief is "Yaldabaoth and cast him down into Tartaros below the abyss" is seen as no problem for you, He is allowed to tempt humans to sin?
You have exactly the same theory as I have, except you messengers were procreated by your chief shedim, where as in my theory the messengers were tricked into following the sinning angel, and they see their sinning as functional, while God sees their sinning as dysfunctional.
You have the HS in Gnostic writings, creating creatures as sinning. The Bible says the creatures GOD creates are sinless, but over time choose to become sinning.
I choose Scripture over your Gnostic writings. Sin is something a creature chooses to do over time, not something one is born with. Your Gnostic writings is wrong regarding the origin of shedim and their actions on the earth.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 14, 2022 18:56:59 GMT -5
If you care to read your last post, you have the same sinning Shedim, belief as I have. Then you agree – the archon were created by God for God They are an entirely different race of being They were never angels - they are the BEAST of Revelation
AND you must agree – that no created being ever changed his own form and function against God’s Will – then altered God’s Plan also against God’s Will
However, Dave considers all the sinning shedim, are lock up in Prison YES – I absolutely accept scripture - The only scripture reference to sinning angels =
2Pe 2:4 For God did not spare angels when they sinned, but threw them into Sheol. He put them in chains of gloomy darkness, to be held until the judgment
The word "angels" here is "messengers". The word is always messengers
The scriptures does not say ALL of them are locked in chains, .... Scripture says all the sinning angels are locked away in chains
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Same Greek word, with the chief Shedim and His angels, to be destroyed in the everlasting fire. YEP - of the Left Hand – I totally agree YEP – Rev 20:10 – FUTURE TENSE
Where does this verse call for the destruction of the shedim – or even the devil? You quoted - 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. NOW you are talking about Mat 25:41 D"BE HONEST with scripture – is there a chance you will stop misrepresenting scripture for sport
You say A – but when question about it – you offer B as something different NOT a discussion – it is a diversion -------------------
Re 20:1-3 - This passage shows that the bottomless pit, is earth itself, and the prison house is earth itself. Why the need to chain up the chief Shedim if He was already chained up?
Why does your god create man and place him directly into hell
I think you are putting too much emphasis on one theme, and overlooking the messages of Scripture. Many shedim ran out of the possessed man into a lake of pigs, proving not all messengers are locked up. NO – proving that you are talking about two different groups – and you just mix them together to be an ass ----------------------
Within limitless realms dwells incorruptibility. Sophia, who is called Pistis, R" How can Wisdom be called Faith? Faith is an action, not a Name. Robert word game – how can Robert be called Mr Honest – honest is an action word wanted to create something, alone without her consort; and her product was a celestial thing.
Creating without her consort? But you make this complex, the left hand of the Father can create without the right hand knowing it's creating?
You speak at length about Jewish idioms – but deny this one used by Jesus Christ Himself
Mat 6:3 'But thou, doing kindness, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doth, Mat 6:4 that thy kindness may be in secret, and thy Father who is seeing in secret Himself shall reward thee manifestly.
Right Hand of God = Kindness Left Hand = mystery – God does it but why is a mystery – a secret – for His Plan and His Will Where does Scripture speak of animal creatures created both gender male and gender female? Gen 1:27 And God prepareth the man in His image; in the image of God He prepared him, a male and a female He prepared them.
Gen 1:27 (HOT+) ויברא אלהים את האדם (H120) בצלמו בצלם אלהים ברא אתו זכר ונקבה ברא אתם׃
Gen 1:27 (WHM) וַיִּבְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים׀ אֶת־הָֽאָדָם֙ בְּצַלְמֹ֔ו בְּצֶ֥לֶם אֱלֹהִ֖ים בָּרָ֣א אֹתֹ֑ו זָכָ֥ר וּנְקֵבָ֖ה בָּרָ֥א אֹתָֽם׃ And God prepareth (bara) the peel of an onion
animal creatures created both gender male and gender female REPTILES MOSTLY – SNAKES – serpents – turtles – some fish
And where does Scripture speak of created creatures sinning immediately upon its creation?
Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads. Rev 12:4 His tail sweeps away a third of the stars of heaven—it hurled them to the earth. Now the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that whenever she gave birth he might devour her child.
R" Your posting these verses to support your Gnostic tale is wrong. The Rev is NOT speaking of the creation of some "double sex creature" as you claim.
Re 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
It says the HS gives birth to a "man child", who is "Jesus clad in humanity"... NOT your chief shedim sinning creature.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT – Rev 12:5 is all about Christ – the Son of God Rev 12:3-4 are different verses You say A – but when questioned about it – you offer B as something different NOT a discussion – it is a diversion[/font][/b] --------------
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
It also says the chief Shedim and his angels were at war over GOD and His angels. BE HONEST – NOT AT WAR OVER GOD – just a skirmish / scuffle / battle / conflict in heaven Ejected from heaven – aborted – cast into physical creation
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant,
Opening his eyes he immediately sins.... how is this a choice of sinning? Your Gnostic writings imply one is created sinning, not choose to do sinning. The Beast is 100% Yester RA – absolute selfishness = arrogant – self centered
I posted this "sinned against the entirety" before but you ignore the fact your chief shedim sinned. And His angels also sinned. There are only two commandments in scripture for the BEAST – (1) go forth be fruitful and multiply – (2) reproduce after your own kind
How you mocked me with Satan creating other creations, and yet your Gnostic writings say exactly this, that the chief Shedim created other offspring like himself. SORRY ROBERT – Procreation is NOT the same as Creation
And Zoe (Life), the daughter of Pistis Sophia, cried out and said to him, "You are mistaken, Sakla!" – for which the alternative name is Yaltabaoth. She breathed into his face, and her breath became a fiery angel for her; and that angel bound Yaldabaoth and cast him down into Tartaros below the abyss.
The final end of your chief sinning shedim is to be cast into "Tartaros below the abyss." is exactly what Scripture calls earth, formless and void, where darkness reigns, where all the other sinning shedim (angels) are also locked up. Earlier – you said you did NOT care what Tartarus meant So how can you now use the term with authority
Why do you preach that Queensland Australia is the darkest pit of hell I live in the mountains of Colorado – I am amazed by God’s Creation each and every day
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2022 15:38:53 GMT -5
I am amazed at your stubbornness. You admit there are many angels that sinned, and ALL of them are locked up in chains awaiting judgement. So these angels are still alive for some sinning they did long ago, (thousands of years ago) and now they suffer in silence, awaiting their fate. Does that sound like GOD dealing with sinning fairly for the first time? Be honest and think about this? Than you have an entirely different creature (scripture calls shedim - not archons but this is the Greek term for the Hebrew term, so it's OK if you are a Greek reader, like Dave is) But the term "shedim" in Hebrew, is properly spelt as "SHAD" is not a name of a creature, this term means "breast or teat" and thus us a functional descriptor of these creatures. No where does the Bible exactly say where and who the "SHAD" are. You have to use deductive thinking to figure this out. What is a teat, or breast a simile of? What is it's function? Have you thought about this Dave? The word is very close to the word Shadday, so related to this term. And if I use Gnostic writings, it says GOD created sinning creatures. This make Gnostic writings totally false, because sinning is a relationship term, one chooses to become sinning, like you agree with me that many angels chose to do sinning, now await judgement for that sinning. So this implies angels have free will. And one has to ask why the sinning angels all did not repent and return back to GOD? Some have refused to repent.... Since you agree that many angels sinned, why than won't you look at Ezekiel 28 for more clues to why the sinning angels sinned? After all the cherub is an angel and even Jews agree with this. Questions for you 1) Why do you trust Gnostic writings, that say GOD created sinning creatures immediately, such a thing is wrong and destroys the concept of sinning, and the idea of relationships, and removes the concept of sinning entirely. Now you have three concepts of sinning all very different, a) sinning angels - they are locked up awaiting judgement , we assume completely unrepentant b) sinning humans - we are allowed to keep sinning and or repent. They the humans still alive are not completely unrepentant. c) archons who sin because they were created that way. These creatures cannot repent. Personally your Gnostic writings are false on this major point of "sinning". And the Bible teaches SINNING fairly across all the creatures. So there is only one form of sinning and one solution to sinning. --------------------------------------------- D" SORRY ROBERT – Procreation is NOT the same as CreationR" I cannot answer that question, but you should, its your inspired writings, check the original text, for God "creating " something, and than check the word "created" offspring, and see if the translation is fair, or wrong, or if the Gnostic words are false. That is why I do word studies, I do not play word games. --------------------- D "YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT – Rev 12:5 is all about Christ – the Son of God Rev 12:3-4 are different versesHow can Rev 12: 3-4 be about archons, but Rev 12:5 be about Christ? Is this how you read Scripture, not as a whole, but cut it up with scissors? --- --------------- D"REPTILES MOSTLY – SNAKES – serpents – turtles – some fishR" I have found this, animals.net/hermaphroditic-animals/1) Banana slugs, like most other slugs, are very slow creatures. This makes it difficult for them to move around the forest and find mates. But fortunately, because banana slugs are simultaneous hermaphrodites, they can breed with any other banana slug they encounter. Banana slugs are also capable of mating during any time of year, which also helps to maximize their breeding opportunities. 2) Groupers are also noteworthy for being protogynous hermaphrodites, which means that they are a type of sequential hermaphrodite. Most groupers start life as females, and they only become male when they become large enough to compete with other large males. Other grouper species are neither male nor female while young; they only become one sex or the other once they mature. 3) Most mangrove killifish are females who also have male gonads. This enables them to fertilize their own eggs, and therefore reproduce without the help of other individuals. This likely serves as an adaptation that enables the fish to colonize new areas. For example, a single fish that reaches an isolated puddle or body of water could reproduce without needing another individual to be present. 4) Earthworms are hermaphrodites, who possess male and female sexual organs. When they encounter other earthworms, they exchange sperm cells, which enables the receiving worm to fertilize the eggs inside its body. Oddly, earthworms – who tend to spend most of their time below the surface – usually breed above ground. However, because they’re vulnerable to predators during this time, they usually do so at night. Some earthworms are capable of self-fertilization. This helps them to colonize new lands, and it has enabled some species – such as the ubiquitous nightcrawler – to expand their historic range greatly. No examples of snakes? Now why did GOD design these creatures this way? And does it prove that this is the norm, or just the different because of habitat? Yet you have archons capable of doing this? that is a creature much higher life from than a slug, or fish or earthworm? D" BE HONEST – NOT AT WAR OVER GOD – just a skirmish / scuffle / battle / conflict in heaven Ejected from heaven – aborted – cast into physical creationR" OK, so why get ejected from heaven at all? After all it's just a creature with only 100% Yester RA. Question: does GOD create such creatures? Is that fair? So the slug does it have both yester tov and yester ra, or only 100% yester ra? What about the earth worm? Have you considered this? Rob considers all creatures with breath of life in them have intelligence to praise GOD, and thus choose to sin against GOD, but only man is capable or repenting to GOD, because we were made stewards in His Image, a prince, responsible for our sinning's, should they come. D" You speak at length about Jewish idioms – but deny this one used by Jesus Christ HimselfR" OK a Jewish idiom, but surely a MEDIUM cannot create? That makes the HS function differently? GNostic is saying the MEDIUM, WISDOM-FAITH, created on her own? The SHadday can create, but the Shadday is locked into the function of the MEDIUM for a reason, dealing with the Sin problem. Have you ever considered this? But than you have three forms of sinning, so you are already confused...? Does the Gnostic term wisdom-faith as a holy spirit? Another question to you... ------------ D" Why does your god create man and place him directly into hellR" That is a good question from you... You have angels sinning. Think about that. This means the angels were the first creature to have done sinning..... Agree? You also have to drop your Gnostic writings, because they teach three kinds of sinning... Scripture speaks consistently of one type of sinning. SHalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 16, 2022 10:22:47 GMT -5
2Pe 2:4 For God did not spare angels when they sinned, but threw them into Sheol. He put them in chains of gloomy darkness, to be held until the judgment. You admit there are many angels that sinned, and ALL of them are locked up in chains awaiting judgement. So these angels are still alive for some sinning they did long ago, (thousands of years ago) and now they suffer in silence, awaiting their fate.How many that sinned = about 200 Who were they – the bane elohiym of Gen 6 What was their sin – they reproduced out of their kind They fathered the Nephilim They were the cause of the flood But we also know that some Nephilim remain after the flood Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, Book of Jubilees tells us they fathered the Rephiem Book of Jubilees tells us 10% of the Nephilim were allowed to remain Book of Jubilees tells us that when you kill a Nephilim while in it 3D form – its spirit remains on earth as the evils spirits Does that sound like GOD dealing with sinning fairly for the first time? Be honest and think about this?YOUR FEEL GOOD GOD THAT MUST OBEY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS IS A FANTISYthe term "shedim" in Hebrew, is properly spelt as "SHAD" is not a name of a creature, this term means "breast or teat" and thus us a functional descriptor of these creatures. No where does the Bible exactly say where and who the "SHAD" are. You have to use deductive thinking to figure this out.What we have = the words of King Solomon What we have are the words of the New Testament authors – James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, Thomas, and Luke Since you agree that many angels sinned, why than won't you look at Ezekiel 28 for more clues to why the sinning angels sinned? After all the cherub is an angel and even Jews agree with this.YES ROBERT – Judaism has many angels and none of them is your satan Questions for you 1) Why do you trust Gnostic writings, that say GOD created sinning creatures immediately, such a thing is wrong and destroys the concept of sinning Why do you deny the New Testament – the dragon just appeared ready to devoura) sinning angels - they are locked up awaiting judgement , we assume completely unrepentant YES – the bane elohiym who expressed their (yester ra) in mortal form – and fathered outside of their kindb) sinning humans - we are allowed to keep sinning and or repent. They the humans still alive are not completely unrepentant. c) archons who sin because they were created that way. These creatures cannot repent. Only 200 of them are the ‘sinning angels’ of 2 Pet 2:4 and Jude 1:6--------------------------------------------- D"SORRY ROBERT – Procreation is NOT the same as Creation R" I cannot answer that question, but you should, its your inspired writings, I just did answer that question – procreation is NOT creation--------------------- D"YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT – Rev 12:5 is all about Christ – the Son of God Rev 12:3-4 are different verses How can Rev 12: 3-4 be about archons, but Rev 12:5 be about Christ? Is this how you read Scripture, not as a whole, but cut it up with scissors?Rev 12:3-4 is all about the Beast Rev 12:5 is all about Christ How else can anyone read scripture?------------------ D"REPTILES MOSTLY – SNAKES – serpents – turtles – some fish Here is the Robert method – the question is about “A” - androgynous just like their parent. How you mocked me with Satan creating other creations, and yet your Gnostic writings say exactly this So you respond with “B” a search for hermaphoitesR" I have found this, animals.net/hermaphroditic-animals/ No examples of snakes? 6 animals that can change sexes – Inversehttps://www.inverse.com › science › animals-can-chang... CENTRAL BEARDED DRAGONS (POGONA VITTICEPS) COMMON REED FROGS (HYPEROLIUS VIRIDIJLAVUS OMMATOSTICTUS) CLOWNFISH (AMPHIPRIONINAE) GREEN SEA TURTLES (CHELONIA MYDAS) 10 'trans', gender-bending animals that can change sexwww.pinknews.co.uk › 2019/04/12 › trans-gend... Red-sided garter snake Bearded DragonsGiant Australian cuttlefish Green Sea Turtles Asian Sheepshead Wrasse Clown Fish Marsh harrier Sea snails -------------------------- D"BE HONEST – NOT AT WAR OVER GOD – just a skirmish / scuffle / battle / conflict in heaven Ejected from heaven – aborted – cast into physical creation R" OK, so why get ejected from heaven at all? After all it's just a creature with only 100% Yester RA. 100% (yester ra) is a by-product of / inherent to 3D biology – made with some matter No biology in heaven because it only thinks of itself - arrogant – self-centered Focused upon the matter (WORLD) – NOT the Creator - spiritualQuestion: does GOD create such creatures? Is that fair? So the slug does it have both yester tov and yester ra, or only 100% yester ra? What about the earth worm? Have you considered this? YEP – all WORLD – all (yester ra) only focused upon go forth be fruitful and multyiply
D"You speak at length about Jewish idioms – but deny this one used by Jesus Christ Himself R" OK a Jewish idiom, but surely a MEDIUM cannot create? That makes the HS function differently? GNostic is saying the MEDIUM, WISDOM-FAITH, created on her own? The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God – Is God – Is ChristDoes the Gnostic term wisdom-faith as a holy spirit? Another question to you... TRINITY = The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God – Is God – Is Christ------------ D"Why does your god create man and place him directly into hell R" That is a good question from you... You have angels sinning. Think about that. This means the angels were the first creature to have done sinning..... I ask “A” – you respond with “B” – I’ll try again You teach that we are living in the pit of hell – earth Why does God create man and place him directly into hellEarlier – you denounced hell as a pagan teaching – there is only the peaceful sleep of the grave
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2022 15:10:34 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
D" Why do you deny the New Testament – the dragon just appeared ready to devour
R" According to you, not how the text reads or implies. I read the text allowing time for the dragon to sin slowly over time, because other places in Scripture imply this gradual sinning process.
Sin is the break down of reasoning with GOD, so it's a relationship breakdown, NOT as you claim something we are made from, ie matter, or with 100% yester RA, sinning is defined as a reasoning power in a relationship that breaks down over time, ie between GOD and the creature.
Your Gnostic writings teach you that sin can be created immediately, is totally false.
D" YES – the bane elohiym who expressed their (yester ra) in mortal form – and fathered outside of their kind
Only 200 of them are the ‘sinning angels’ of 2 Pet 2:4 and Jude 1:6
R" How precise you number of sinning angels is. This is totally false as well. Mere speculation.
There is no proof angels can procreate, or have sex with humans. Pure speculation on your part.
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
The number of angels is vast, in the billions probably.
So why do you limit the sinning disease to only 200 angels? Sinning is a clever process that has advantages over those who only speak truth. Sinners can lie, cheat and deceive even by speaking so called truth (Jeff Benner explains). But you only limit the disease of sinning to just 200 angels.
Dave further explains"
How many that sinned = about 200 Who were they – the bane elohiym of Gen 6 What was their sin – they reproduced out of their kind They fathered the Nephilim They were the cause of the flood
But we also know that some Nephilim remain after the flood
Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward,
Book of Jubilees tells us they fathered the Rephiem Book of Jubilees tells us 10% of the Nephilim were allowed to remain Book of Jubilees tells us that when you kill a Nephilim while in it 3D form – its spirit remains on earth as the evils spirits
Rob asks"
So these angels only sinned after mankind was created, around Genesis 6 ? How do you account for a chief SHEDIM in the garden of Eden as soon as mankind was created, in Genesis 2? Your story does not fit Scripture timelines.
If only 200 angels sinned and are locked up in chains, how do you account for legion, over a thousand shedim running into pigs in the NT? Did the 200 angels pro-create lots of shedim over time, or sex thousands of woman over a period of a year? Why did it take so long for God to react to the sinning process? One skirmish you detail took less than 6 seconds?
Do any of your so called inspired sources detail these answers?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 17, 2022 12:09:36 GMT -5
D" Why do you deny the New Testament – the dragon just appeared ready to devour R" According to you, According to scripture
not how the text reads or implies. Who gave you the authority to rewrite scripture so that it includes your assumptions?
I read the text allowing time for the dragon to sin slowly over time, because other places in Scripture imply this gradual sinning process.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Ruach Elohim was hovering upon the surface of the water. Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light!” and there was light. Gen 1:4 God saw that the light was good. So God distinguished the light from the darkness. Gen 1:5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” So there was evening and there was morning—one day.
Your creation + gradual process + war + the separation of Light and Darkness took less then 24hrs according to you Just how long of a war was it in heaven? Answer – over in an instant
Your Gnostic writings teach you that sin can be created immediately, is totally false. Why do you MOCK the New Testamant? All it took was one choice by Eve and sin was created
D" YES – the bane elohiym who expressed their (yester ra) in mortal form – and fathered outside of their kind Only 200 of them are the ‘sinning angels’ of 2 Pet 2:4 and Jude 1:6 R" How precise you number of sinning angels is. This is totally false as well. Mere speculation. Judaism calls it the Wisdom of their fathers – and a full part of the Temple Scrolls
The number of angels is vast, in the billions probably. So why do you limit the sinning disease to only 200 angels? Because this is what the Wisdom of the Fathers tells us
Rob asks" So these angels only sinned after mankind was created, around Genesis 6 ? How do you account for a chief SHEDIM in the garden of Eden as soon as mankind was created, in Genesis 2? Your story does not fit Scripture timelines. Why do you misrepresent to make your points The Archon were created on Day 1 – appeared along with physical creation The archon are the BEAST – the serpent race – that was in the garden That serpent did not lie – did not sin – all it did was temp and deceive The archon of Gen 6 – are the sinning angels of 2 Pet 2:4 and Jude 1:6
If only 200 angels sinned and are locked up in chains, how do you account for legion, over a thousand shedim running into pigs in the NT? The Archon were created on Day 1 – appeared along with physical creation Only 200 of them – or so – are the archon of Gen 6 – are the sinning angels of 2 Pet 2:4 and Jude 1:6
Did the 200 angels pro-create lots of shedim over time, YES – we are told that there were many Nephilim – overwhelmed mankind
or sex thousands of woman over a period of a year? No record of the number of women
How long – what time period We are told that Gen 6 happened during the time of Jared
Jared → Enoch → Methuselah → Lamech → Noah Enoch was born when Jared was 162 years old + Enoch was 65 when Methuselah was born + Methuselah lived 969 years – and we know that the earth waited for his death before flooding.
How long – what time period – about 1200 pre flood years
Do any of your so called inspired sources detail these answers?
The Book of Enoch, VI.1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.'
GO FORTH BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY + (yester ra) lust – desire – want – greed - selfishness
6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.
VII.1. And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. 2. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells:
What is a pre-flood ell measurement? There is an ancient measurement call an ell from Sumar – if it is the same Then Enoch’s giants were 4.8 kilometers tall
3. Who consumed all the acquisitions of men.
All ancient gods demanded food sacrifices – very Sumar - Baal, Molech
And when men could no longer sustain them, 4. the giants turned against them and devoured mankind.
The gods ate men – prisoners of war – human sacrifices to the gods
5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.
THE ARCHON SINNED AGAINST THE ENTIRITY – not God How do you sin against a bird or a reptile? Answers – Chimeras
VIII.1. And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals 〈of the earth〉 and the art of working them,
The archon taught man the art of war
and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. 2. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways.
The archon taught cosmetics and vanity
Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl,(taught) astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, 〈Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun〉, and Sariêl the course of the moon.
Wizardry – witchcraft – astrology
And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .
Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, whenever the sons of God came to the daughters of men, and gave birth to them. Those were the mighty men of old, men of renown. Gen 6:5 Then Adonai saw that the wickedness of humankind was great on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their heart was only evil all the time. Gen 6:6 So Adonai regretted that He made humankind on the earth, and His heart was deeply pained. Gen 6:7 So Adonai said, “I will wipe out humankind, whom I have created, from the face of the ground, from humankind to livestock, crawling things and the flying creatures of the sky, because I regret that I made them.” Gen 6:8 But Noah found favor in Adonai’s eyes.
So Adonai regretted that He made humankind on the earth, So Adonai said, “I will wipe out humankind, You have a Feel Good god at war with satan Why is God upset with man – why does God punish man Why doesn’t your god punish satan – eliminate satan – wipe him out
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