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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2022 15:30:34 GMT -5
D"Rob wishes to confirm Are you saying that GOD intentionally created the SHEDIM on purpose as an opposing elohiym power? GOD TEST MAN - Why do you deny scripture?
R" creating opposing elohiym powers on purpose will do more than test humans, it will tempt humans to sin, it will destroy all of God's creation and murder all of God's humans He created... are you blind or something?
D"But He does not do it directly – THE WORLD with its selfish desires does it for Him R" a cop out, God still created the opposing elohiym power on purpose is my question put before you?
Is this what you truly support?
D"YES – this is my ministry – to teach the REALITY OF THE ARCHON R" I see, you didn't answer my question?
Rob wishes to confirm Are you saying that GOD intentionally created the SHEDIM on purpose as an opposing elohiym power?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 4, 2022 18:12:32 GMT -5
D"Rob wishes to confirm Are you saying that GOD intentionally created the SHEDIM on purpose as an opposing elohiym power? Rob wishes to confirm Are you saying that GOD intentionally created the SHEDIM on purpose as an opposing elohiym power?Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. Repeat - You call yourself a Christian – but teach you consider the New Testament = Gnostic and something you should doubt and ignore Isa 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me; Isa 45:6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things. Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Addition – why do you also deny the ahl/OT – TanakIf it exist – God made it – and God made it for a purpose – His purposePro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. For by Him all things were created— BY HIMin heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. – all of it – the tov and the raAll was created through Him and for Him. – BY HIM – FOR HIM God’s Plan – Gods’ Will – things only happened on way – God’s WayR" creating opposing elohiym powers on purpose will do more than test humans, it will tempt humans to sin, God Blessed Man – with the ability to choose the maximum reward in heaven possible That choice – is between WORLD and Godit will destroy all of God's creation and murder all of God's humans He created... Recognizes what is in your sight – man is the destroyer the worlds ecology – and weather Man is the destroyer of man – No war in Ukraine – do you still belief that – 125,000 dead and 3 million displaced Recognizes what is in your sight – are you blind or something?R" I see, you didn't answer my question? Rob wishes to confirm Are you saying that GOD intentionally created the SHEDIM on purpose as an opposing elohiym power? If you cannot read English – how do you intend to rewrite scripture into your EnglishAuthoritative TeachingAnd before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2022 4:54:26 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
You still didn't answer my question, so I will assume you support a GOD who intentionally created elohiym powers on purpose. How does this foster free will to love God, if mankind is placed with both yester ra and tester tov and forced to use his free will to choose a GOD who loves them but also created a system designed to hate God and give humans a terrible time.
I do my see rebellion in your theory, no real sin, instead sin is seen as a positive thing that helps us appreciate God more, Since He pardons us.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 5, 2022 8:52:27 GMT -5
You still didn't answer my question, Why don’t you understand English – is this why you have so much trouble with scripture?
so I will assume – it just makes you an ASS
you support a GOD who intentionally created elohiym powers on purpose. REPEAT – there is only One True God – One Creator – Who created everything – the tov and the ra THERE IS NO SECOND CREATOR NO ONE HAS THE POWER TO CHANGE GOD’S PLAN AGAINST GOD’S WILL
How does this foster free will to love God, - DUH if there is no choice – how do you choose God? if mankind is placed with both yester ra and yester tov - that is the choice and forced to use his free will to choose a GOD – no force – your Free Will Choice who loves them but also created a system designed to hate God and give humans a terrible time. THERE YOU ARE – MUST MAKE IT SATANIC EVIL Adam and Eve had a choice – remain in paradise or enter the WORLD – man made the choice
I do my see rebellion in your theory, no real sin, ABSOLUTE ROBERT NONSENSE that he adds just to be an ass – misrepresent – false witness
instead sin is seen as a positive thing ABSOLUTE ROBERT NONSENSE that he adds just to be an ass – misrepresent – false witness
SIN helps us appreciate God more, ABSOLUTE ROBERT NONSENSE that he adds just to be an ass – misrepresent – false witness
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2022 14:52:07 GMT -5
You have terrible mood swings Dave
some posts you like what I say and others your don't? And I say the same words mostly between posts.
A paper called " Evil in Man: The Jewish Point of View
Paper delivered by Rabbi Raymond Apple
"Evil, then, arises from within the human being, from the evil inclination or yetzer hara. The term derives from two passages in Genesis: “Every imagination (yetzer) of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” [4] and “The imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth”. [5] Both passages will be examined later in this paper in more detail".
4. Gen 6:5. 5. Gen. 8:21.
Rob" so on the basis of two texts only, the whole theme of evil is based?
Notice both yester ra and yester tov is placed inside the sinless couple, Adam and Eve, so they have a choice between two things.
According to the Talmud, the evil inclination is known by several names; in Genesis it is called evil, in Psalms unclean, in Proverbs a fiend, in Isaiah a stumbling block, in Joel a hidden object in the heart of man. [6] 6. Sukkah 52a. Together with the yetzer hara, man also has a good inclination, the yetzer hatov; there is ongoing tension between them, a veritable “civil war in the breast”.[7] 7. Crane Brinton, A History of Western Morals, 1959, pp.169, 299.
Rob" Rabbi Apple get this "evil inclination' idea outside of the Bible. So straight away we are no longer following the Hebrew torah at all, but the precepts of men.
Both come from God. Rejecting the dualistic theory which believes in two antagonistic powers, the god of light and goodness and the god of darkness and evil, Judaism quotes the words of Isaiah:
“I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the Lord, that doeth all these things.” [8] 8. Isa. 45:7.
R" So Jews reject the "two antagonistic powers, the god of light and goodness and the god of darkness and evil," because they see GOD as the creator of RA, and that the LORD does all these things.
Both good and evil inclinations are logically necessary if man is to have free will. (Despite the many difficulties of the doctrine, Judaism maintains that man has moral freedom; the Biblical formulation of the belief clearly states, “Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse” [9]). 9. Deut. 11:26, 30:19. There is no way in which man can have free will unless the Creator provides the two options. The creation of evil is not therefore an act of Divine savagery or mischief, though in the light of events God is stated by the rabbis as sometimes having regretted what He had done. [10] 10. Sukkah 52b; J. Taanit 66b.
Rob" It's a pity that using the Bible alone we discover another approach to the creation of RA, and How the LORD achieves this? But no, the precepts of men is quoted again and again. And again there is no mischief allowed, even though the Hebrew speaks of this verse, it's not allowed in the precepts of men.
Conceivably, God could have created men without freedom of choice but, in the religious view, it is this freedom which is man’s pride and glory, without which he cannot be God-like. God, evidently, does not wish to be served by automata but by freely responding creatures who can reach out for His goodness by the free action of their wills.” [11] 11. Louis Jacobs, We Have Reason to Believe, 1957, pp.49-50.
Rob" Jews say God does not like creatures serving God by automata, but by freely responding.
This must include angels too?
This has to include your so called archons too Dave.
No creature cannot have "automata", the Rabbi writes clearly.
In Jewish thinking there is no normative doctrine of Original Sin, deriving from the Genesis narrative of Adam’s transgression interpreted as causing his descendants to be morally tainted. There are odd folkloristic suggestions of this kind in Jewish literature, and resentment against Adam for what he did, [19] 19. George Foot Moore, Judaism in the First Centuries of the Christian but no doctrinal significance is attached thereto. The Bible does not refer to Adam’s lapse anywhere else, and the rabbinic tradition does not teach that man’s moral constitution was changed by reason of Adam’s actions. Indeed, Genesis itself emphasises that man is a free moral agent. God says to Adam’s son Cain: “If you do well, you will be exalted; but if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door: its desire is for you, but you can master it!” [20] 20. Gen. 4:7.
Rob" Rabbi Apple does not read the NT or consider the NT as part of the OT.
Correspondingly, there is no notion that the original constitution of Adam underwent any change in consequence of the fall, so that he transmitted to his descendants a vitiated nature in which the appetites and passions necessarily prevail over reason and virtue, while the will to good is enfeebled or wholly impotent.” [21] 21. Moore, op.cit., p.479.
Rob" So Jews say Adam did not pass anything onto His Children, therefore no mischief happened to humans after Adam sinned.
---------------------------------- Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Here the principles of the cognitive mind is to reason,, to choose.
(1) Ge 21:25 And Abraham reproved "Reasoned with" Abimelech
(2) Ge 31:36 ¶ And Jacob was wroth, and chode with Laban: and Jacob answered and said to Laban, What is my trespass? what is my sin, that thou hast so hotly pursued after me? 37 Whereas thou hast searched all my stuff, what hast thou found of all thy household stuff? set it here before my brethren and thy brethren, that they may judge "reasoned together" betwixt us both.
R" Notice Jacob and Laban "reasoned together", the KJV tries to put judge here. Even "Reasoning over sin"
(3) Le 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke "reason with" thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
R" We are to reason with our neighbours to prevent any sin..
(4) Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. 16 He also shall be my salvation
R" Though salvation slay me, I will keep my reasoning on my road before Him, after all He is my salvation "Yashuah".
(5) Pr 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
R" The Lord loves those He reasons with , even as a father the son He delights in.
(6) Jer 2:19 Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
R" Your RA corrects thee and your backslidings "reason with" thee, therefore see the the RA and bitterness, you have forsaken the LORD...
Notice how "Reason" can still choose between RA and knowing GOD.
(You do not have this yesterRA or yesterTOV thing in the "reason faculties" you simply reason between your choices"
So the word "reason" does not require some inherited trait within us.
I can choose love or choose not to love. Why does the Jew insist on their being these inherited traits within us ?
More to the point, why don't they do torah word studies like the example I show above for "Reason".
Instead they base their theories on two passages, and lots of precepts by men.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 5, 2022 15:58:09 GMT -5
A paper called " Evil in Man: The Jewish Point of View Paper delivered by Rabbi Raymond Apple
"Evil, then, arises from within the human being, from the evil inclination or yetzer hara. YES – FROM (yester ra) – (yester ra) leads to sin – this is correct
The term derives from two passages in Genesis: “Every imagination (yetzer) of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” [4] and “The imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth”. [5] Both passages will be examined later in this paper in more detail".
(yetzer) = the plan of man – them intentions of man – also correct (yester tov) = the desire for God (yester ra) = the desire for WORLD (selfishness)
4. Gen 6:5. 5. Gen. 8:21. Rob" so on the basis of two texts only, the whole theme of evil is based? + the precept upon precepts, line upon line of scripture
SDA have an entire theology build upon 2 words – that are NOT supported by precept upon precept, line upon line
Notice both yester ra and yester tov is placed inside the sinless couple, Adam and Eve, so they have a choice between two things. YES Robert – FREE WILL CHOICE is between the two (yester tov) = the desire for God (yester ra) = the desire for WORLD (selfishness)
Rob" Rabbi Apple get this "evil inclination' idea outside of the Bible. So straight away we are no longer following the Hebrew torah at all, but the precepts of men. The doctrine of Fallen Angels was invented by Rome – you follow Roman doctrine
R" So Jews reject the "two antagonistic powers, the god of light and goodness and the god of darkness and evil," because they see GOD as the creator of RA, and that the LORD does all these things. Correct the Jews NEVER had a bad guy satan – Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord in service to the Lord
Both good and evil inclinations are logically necessary if man is to have free will. (Despite the many difficulties of the doctrine, Judaism maintains that man has moral freedom; the Biblical formulation of the belief clearly states, “Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse” [9]). 9. Deut. 11:26, 30:19. There is no way in which man can have free will unless the Creator provides the two options. The creation of evil is not therefore an act of Divine savagery or mischief, though in the light of events God is stated by the rabbis as sometimes having regretted what He had done. [10] 10. Sukkah 52b; J. Taanit 66b.
Rob" It's a pity that using the Bible alone we discover another approach to the creation of RA, Explain why you deny the ahl/OT
Deu 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; Deu 11:27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: Deu 11:28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
Explain why you deny the ahl/OT Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Conceivably, God could have created men without freedom of choice but, in the religious view, it is this freedom which is man’s pride and glory, without which he cannot be God-like. God, evidently, does not wish to be served by automata but by freely responding creatures who can reach out for His goodness by the free action of their wills.” [11] 11. Louis Jacobs, We Have Reason to Believe, 1957, pp.49-50.
Rob" Jews say God does not like creatures serving God by automata, but by freely responding. Correct – the Prodigal Son reaps the Reward in heaven
Rob" Jews say God does not like creatures serving God by automata, but by freely responding This must include angels too? Just your assumption – to make scripture fit your doctrine
In Jewish thinking there is no normative doctrine of Original Sin, deriving from the Genesis narrative of Adam’s transgression interpreted as causing his descendants to be morally tainted. NOTE to people who do not read English well This does NOT say the was no original sin It says no original sin that decedents inherited
If your teach was correct – all men would be born sinners – no choice INSTEAD – all man are born sinless / perfect / pure – (yester ra) doesn’t develop into sin until it become selfish
There are odd folkloristic suggestions of this kind in Jewish literature, and resentment against Adam for what he did, [19] 19. George Foot Moore, Judaism in the First Centuries of the Christian but no doctrinal significance is attached thereto. The Bible does not refer to Adam’s lapse anywhere else, and the rabbinic tradition does not teach that man’s moral constitution was changed by reason of Adam’s actions. Indeed, Genesis itself emphasises that man is a free moral agent. God says to Adam’s son Cain: “If you do well, you will be exalted; but if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door: its desire is for you, but you can master it!” [20] 20. Gen. 4:7. CORRECT – no change to man – no change to creation The only thing that happened was a change of location and the Tree of Life is withheld
Rob" Rabbi Apple does not read the NT or consider the NT as part of the OT. The NT is NOT part of the OT – it is the fulfillment of the OT Jesus did not come to change a single thing – (Mat 2:17-19) - why do you deny the words of Jesus Christ
Correspondingly, there is no notion that the original constitution of Adam underwent any change in consequence of the fall, so that he transmitted to his descendants a vitiated nature in which the appetites and passions necessarily prevail over reason and virtue, while the will to good is enfeebled or wholly impotent.” [21] 21. Moore, op.cit., p.479.
Rob" So Jews say Adam did not pass anything onto His Children, therefore no mischief happened to humans after Adam sinned. The only thing that happened was a change of location and the Tree of Life is withheld
All of your creationist crap teach that everything changed – all creation was changed by your satan – you satan rewrote the DNA of everything – vegetarian sharks were finally allowed to eat ABSOLUTE NONSENSE – NOT Supported by Romans 1:19 or Psa 19:2
---------------------------------- Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD Here the principles of the cognitive mind is to reason – with the LORD But you deny the teaching of the Holy Spirit and call Pentecostalism error
(6) Jer 2:19 Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
R" Your RA corrects thee and your backslidings "reason with" thee, therefore see the RA and bitterness, you have forsaken the LORD... Notice how "Reason" can still choose between RA and knowing GOD. I can choose love or choose not to love. Why does the Jew insist on their being these inherited traits within us ? Where do you get that ability – the ability to choose? IF it is not from God – or a part of your instinctive programming – where did you get you ability to choosed – did satan provide it for you? AS I have always said – you give your praise to the wrong god
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2022 4:45:53 GMT -5
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Post by Dave on Sept 6, 2022 7:34:15 GMT -5
Jews do not really have a Hebrew understanding of sin in the first place. PROOF – you do NOT understand what you read in English
quote - The sages of the Talmud didn't see much difference between my stupid customer and your standard sinner. As they saw it, when a person acts contrary to his Creator's instructions on how life is to be lived, he may be doing something bad, evil, selfish, destructive, enjoyable, defiant, cowardly — as the case may be. But above all, he is doing something profoundly stupid.
Sin = DISOBEDIENCE OR TRANSGRESSION OF God’s commandments 1- acts contrary to his Creator's instructions on how life is to be lived,
2- he may be doing something bad, evil, selfish, destructive, enjoyable, defiant, cowardly
3- But above all, he is doing something profoundly stupid.
Eve knew she was in full view of all the heavens – God told them the penalty for sin = death SHE SINNED ANYWAY
Please - tell us why you think this was a smart or an intelligent thing to do You know it is a sin to bear false witness – yet you misrepresent anyway
Paul tells us - 1Th 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit, Deny away – pretend scripture says something different Rewrite scripture – change the words around until you have what you want
For 3 years you have been playing word games – With serious study – in 3 years you could be a translator – in Greek or Hebrew Tell us why you think this was a smart or an intelligent thing to do
Sounds pretty stupid to me as stupid as vegaterian sharks as stupid as satan is a god that can change God's Plan against God's Will as stupid as coal and oil fires beneath the ground cause earthquakes as stupid as the metaphor is more real than the scripture
WAKE UP ROBERT - you seek the Lord - but refuse to recognise what is in your sight because you are to buisy trying to defend a pagan doctrine
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2022 15:25:22 GMT -5
The Scriptures present two ways of living,
One way is to live by obeying the rules of living, and following its principles perfectly using your own human powers to obey.
Sin is than breaking one of those rules, and thus the penalty for breaking one of the least of these rules is eternal non-existence.
Notice God changed this way of living, because we cannot obey it's requirements.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
No problem with the method of living, only fault with the people living by the method.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Here is the promise of a new method of living.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Now how is this new method achieved? By faith in Jesus. Instead of supporting the words of the law using human power, you support the words of Jesus using faith, and Jesus empowers you with His powers, so you never use your powers of SELF.
Sin is defined under this method as not using faith.
The Jews do not consider themselves as condemned in their bodies, so cling to the first method of salvation, by obeying the laws using their own human strength.
I got this impression from reading Rabbi Apples article on sin.
Getting to heaven under the first method of living is impossible, because not only are we all sinning, yes we are born sinless from the womb , but we rapidly become sinning from the womb, for all have done sinning from the days of our youth.
The purpose of sacrifice of a lamb for sins, was to practice "Faith", but Jews saw this as a "practice of human powers" to cling again to "righteousness by the law" as Paul says in Romans 10. The Jews did not consider this function of "faith".
Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved
Since Jews do not read the NT, they miss this much... OK
Ge 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.
Ex 14:13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever
How is this salvation based?
Ps 2:7 ¶ I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ps 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
The Jews have to kiss the SON/SEED and be saved by trusting in him, the Son.
Pr 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? 5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
The imrah is with the eloah, the imrah is a shield and we are to put our trust in the imrah, who is the SON of the Father.
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
The Jews do not understand their own torah in Hebrew nor do they put faith in the imrah of the Father, the Father's SON, is clearly taught in the OT our salvation.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 6, 2022 20:17:53 GMT -5
The Scriptures present two ways of living,
One way is to live by obeying the rules - LAW Sin is than breaking one of those rules, and thus the penalty for breaking one of the least of these rules is eternal non-existence.
MORTAL DEATH – DEATH of biology The Tree of Life was withheld DO NOT OVERLOOK THE PROMISE – DON’T DENY THE PROMISE
Notice God changed this way of living, because we cannot obey it's requirements. The only thing that change was that the Divine Pardon is extended to the Gentiles
No problem with the method of living, only fault with the people living by the method. Agree
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Here is the promise of a new method of living. The Promise of Pentecost – the Comforter – Baptism of the Holy Spirit When the Torah comes down from the mountain to the people
Now how is this new method achieved? By faith in Jesus. YEP – belief in John 3:16 – that is all that is required
Sin is defined under this method as not using faith. SORRY ROBERT – your attempt to rewrite the dictionary is REJECTED
I got this impression from reading Rabbi Apples article on sin. Getting to heaven under the first method of living is impossible, because not only are we all sinning, yes we are born sinless from the womb , but we rapidly become sinning from the womb, for all have done sinning from the days of our youth. Absolutely Correct
The purpose of sacrifice of a lamb for sins, was to practice "Faith", but Jews saw this as a "practice of human powers" to cling again to "righteousness by the law" as Paul says in Romans 10. The Jews did not consider this function of "faith". Rituals = things to do – tradition
Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved Since Jews do not read the NT, they miss this much... OK
YOUR ANTI-SEMITISM IS CLEAR – too bad you do not know your Torah
Psa 68:20 Blessed be my Lord! Day by day He bears our burdens—the God of our salvation! Selah
Psa 79:9 Help us, God of our salvation…
Psa 85:5 Restore us, O God of our salvation,
Ge 49:18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.
IF GOD is NOT the salvation for the Jews – who is NOW you will say Jesus is – forcing all the Jews throughout ancient history to convert to Christianity But you forget – Jesus Christ IS GOD INCARNATE
How is this salvation based? Ps 2:7 Ps 2:12 The Jews have to kiss the SON/SEED and be saved by trusting in him, the Son. Pr 30:4
The imrah is with the eloah, the imrah is a shield and we are to put our trust in the imrah, who is the SON of the Father.
OK – but why do you deny the New Testament Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
The Jews do not understand their own torah in Hebrew Judge away – Mr judgment
You love Ezekiel 28 – you repeat it almost daily But you say Ezekiel was error
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2022 13:47:09 GMT -5
RP"Sin is defined under this method as not using faith. D" SORRY ROBERT – your attempt to rewrite the dictionary is REJECTED
R" Ro 14:23 ...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Do you deny Scripture?
Rp" Since Jews do not read the NT, they miss this much...
D" YOUR ANTI-SEMITISM IS CLEAR R" How is this disliking Jews? It's a fact, they do not read the NT as part of their tanak?
D"IF GOD is NOT the salvation for the Jews – who is
R" Yashuah is,
in fact you wrongly describe Yashuah as an expression of the Father is TOTALLY WRONG.
I received this email today, and not a single Messanic Jew would agree with you.
A renowned Reform Jewish Rabbi of today answers: “There was a remarkable tradition that insisted that Abraham completed the sacrifice and that afterward Isaac was miraculously revived. According to this haggadah [telling], Abraham slew his son, burnt his victim, and the ashes remain as a stored-up merit and atonement for Israel in all generations.” (Rabbi W. Gunther Plaut, The Torah: A Modern Commentary 1981, p. 151) Clearly, some Rabbis believed that a single, willing, human sacrifice on behalf of mankind would atone for sin. Even Jewish scholars acknowledge the Hebrew roots of this concept. Daniel Boyarin, professor of Talmudic Culture at the University of California, Berkeley writes in his book The Jewish Gospels: “The notion of a dual godhead with a Father and a Son, the notion of a Redeemer who himself will be both God and man, and the notion that this Redeemer would suffer and die as part of the salvational process. “At least some of these ideas, the Father/ Son godhead and the suffering savior, have deep roots in the Hebrew Bible as well and may be among some of the most ancient ideas about God and the world that the Israelite people ever held.” Christian View: The Akedah Foreshadows Yeshua’s Sacrifice For Believers in Yeshua (Jesus) as the Messiah, the Akedah is much more than a story. Abraham is the first Avot, the Father of our Faith whose willingness to sacrifice his son is destined to repeat itself in one of his descendants. Isaac’s role was no less crucial than Abraham’s in the eyes of the Rabbis. After all, Isaac was willing to be sacrificed in obedience to his father and the Almighty. Let’s look at the parallels between God’s testing of Abraham to sacrifice Isaac in Genesis 22 and God’s will to sacrifice His Son Yeshua (Jesus) as seen throughout Scripture
Notice especially "The notion of a dual godhead with a Father and a Son, the notion of a Redeemer who himself will be both God and man, and the notion that this Redeemer would suffer and die as part of the salvational process written by Rabbi Daniel Boyarin, professor of Talmudic Culture at the University of California.
Therefore, some Messianic Jews support a dual godhead, with a Real Father and a Real SON. Your expression idea of one being is bogus, as this email to me shows. Ps 2:7 Ps 2:12
The Jews have to kiss the SON/SEED and be saved by trusting in him, the Son.
Pr 30:4
These verses show that even in the OT, salvation is only through the SON, not the Father per se', for the Father has granted salvation through His SON, is something you fail to understand, and most conservative Jews also are blinded to read. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 8, 2022 3:23:40 GMT -5
RP"Sin is defined under this method as not using faith. D" SORRY ROBERT – your attempt to rewrite the dictionary is REJECTED
R" Ro 14:23 ...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Do you deny Scripture?
Rom 14:15 For if your brother is grieved on account of food, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy by your food the one for whom Messiah died. Rom 14:16 Therefore do not let what is good for you be spoken of as evil— Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not about eating and drinking, but righteousness and shalom and joy in the Ruach ha-Kodesh. Rom 14:18 For the one who serves Messiah in this manner is pleasing to God and approved by men. Rom 14:19 So then let us pursue what makes for shalom and for the building up of one another. Rom 14:20 Stop tearing down the work of God for the sake of food. Indeed all things are clean, but wrong for the man who by eating causes stumbling. Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything by which your brother stumbles. Rom 14:22 The faith you have, keep it to yourself before God. How fortunate is the one who does not condemn himself for what he approves. Rom 14:23 But the one who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because it is not of faith. And whatever is not of faith is sin.
Do you deny Scripture? I do not teach mandated dietary laws – because they have nothing to do with our spiritual relationship with the comforter
Rp" Since Jews do not read the NT, they miss this much... D" YOUR ANTI-SEMITISM IS CLEAR R" How is this disliking Jews? It's a fact, they do not read the NT as part of their tanak? D"IF GOD is NOT the salvation for the Jews – who is R" Yashuah is, Explain yourself – Do all Jews must convert to Christianity? – many Christian think so Does this mean NO Jew before Christ was saved? – but is this a Christian teaching? Explain how OT Moses stood with Christ as First Fruits Explain how the prophets that spoke with God – one on one – were not saved?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2022 15:39:06 GMT -5
D" I do not teach mandated dietary laws – because they have nothing to do with our spiritual relationship with the comforterR" Than you're not Jewish in any way, not even a Messianic Jew either. D" Do all Jews must convert to Christianity? R" Jew need only live by the light they know, Rom 2 D" Does this mean NO Jew before Christ was saved? – Salvation lived in the OT so saved Jews by the promise. Type and antitype. Jesus is salvation, He lived as the messenger He saved them personally. He was the rock that followed Israel the NT says. D" Explain how OT Moses stood with Christ as First FruitsR" ? unpack D" Explain how the prophets that spoke with God – one on one – were not saved?R" Ye are saved by faith in salvation, a Divine Being, called the Messenger of YHWH, known in the NT as Jesus, known in the OT as Jesus-YHWH. No comment by Dave, regarding the Messanic Jews email? "Notice especially " The notion of a dual godhead with a Father and a Son, the notion of a Redeemer who himself will be both God and man, and the notion that this Redeemer would suffer and die as part of the salvational process written by Rabbi Daniel Boyarin, professor of Talmudic Culture at the University of California." DO you read my Posts? You are not Jewish or following anything Messianic Jews support? Messianic Jews have a "godhead" concept of Elohiym. Like we SDA have, a godhead concept, based on a "Family" picture. SDA also have vegetarian diets too, we try to keep our living bodies presentable for the HS who dwell within us, as Elohiym is holy, therefore our presence before GOD must be holy as well. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 9, 2022 2:58:16 GMT -5
D"I do not teach mandated dietary laws – because they have nothing to do with our spiritual relationship with the comforter R" Than you're not Jewish in any way, not even a Messianic Jew either.
Never said I was Jewish or Messianic Jewish – misrepresent away Robert I am 100% a New Testament Christian that has rejected Roman Christendom The true Christianity was that of the Messianic Jews of the First century All of the disciples were Jewish with Jewish theology and learned directly from Jesus Christ This is the only Christian CONTEXT that matters – what did they believe - what did they teach
D" Do all Jews must convert to Christianity? R" Jew need only live by the light they know, Rom 2 Way NOT to give a direct answer Jews are saved by birth right – or God’s promise to Abraham was a lie Jews are saved by birthright – or the words of Paul are error Rom 11
D" Does this mean NO Jew before Christ was saved? – Salvation lived in the OT so saved Jews by the promise. Correct – they have a promise to be RESTORED
R" Ye are saved by faith in salvation, a Divine Being, called the Messenger of YHWH, known in the NT as Jesus, known in the OT as Jesus-YHWH.
Exo 14:13 But Moses said to the people, “Don’t be afraid! Stand still, and see the salvation of Adonai, which He will perform for you today. You have seen the Egyptians today, but you will never see them again, ever!
known in the OT as Jesus-YHWH = salvation of Adonai, Salvation is in the genitive case of possession = the salvation OF God
2Ch 20:17 You will not fight in this battle. Take your positions, stand and see the salvation of Adonai with you, O Judah and Jerusalem. Do not be afraid or be dismayed. Tomorrow go out to face them, for Adonai is with you.’”
known in the OT as Jesus-YHWH = salvation of Adonai, Salvation is in the genitive case of possession = the salvation OF God
Psa 37:39 Yet the salvation of the righteous is from Adonai. He is their stronghold in time of trouble.
known in the OT as Jesus-YHWH = salvation of Adonai, Salvation is in the genitive case of possession = the salvation OF God
Psa 88:2 Adonai, God of my salvation, day and night I cried out before You. Salvation is in the genitive case of possession = God is my salvation
Lam 3:26 It is good to wait quietly for the salvation of Adonai. Salvation is in the genitive case of possession = the salvation OF God
Mic 7:7 But I—I will watch for Adonai. I will wait for the God of my salvation. My God will hear me. Salvation is in the genitive case of possession = God is my salvation
Hab 3:18 Yet will I triumph in Adonai, I will rejoice in the God of my salvation! Salvation is in the genitive case of possession = God is my salvation
Jesus is salvation, He lived as the messenger He saved them personally. God is salvation – there is no other
He was the rock that followed Israel the NT says. 2Sa 22:47 Adonai lives! And blessed be my Rock! Exalted be God—the Rock of my salvation! God is salvation – there is no other
No comment by Dave, regarding the Messanic Jews email? "Notice especially "The notion of a dual godhead with a Father and a Son, the notion of a Redeemer who himself will be both God and man,
YES – I agree – Jesus Christ was 100% Son of Man + God incarnate (the image of God – Christ)
SDA also have vegetarian diets too, we try to keep our living bodies presentable for the HS who dwell within us, as Elohiym is holy, therefore our presence before GOD must be holy as well.
I am a New Testament Christian
Mat 15:10 Then Yeshua called the crowd and said to them, “Hear and understand. Mat 15:11 It’s not what goes into the mouth that makes the man unholy; but what comes out of the mouth, this makes the man unholy.” Mat 15:12 Then the disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees took offense when they heard this saying?” Mat 15:13 But He replied, “Every plant that My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Mat 15:14 Leave them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” Mat 15:15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.” Mat 15:16 Are you also still lacking understanding?” Yeshua said. Mat 15:17 Don’t you grasp that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and then is ejected into the sewer? Mat 15:18 But the things that proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart, and those things make the man unholy. Mat 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, and slander. Mat 15:20 These are the things that make the man unholy; but to eat with unwashed hands does not make the man unholy.”
Rom 14:15 For if your brother is grieved on account of food, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy by your food the one for whom Messiah died. Rom 14:16 Therefore do not let what is good for you be spoken of as evil— Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not about eating and drinking, but righteousness and shalom and joy in the Ruach ha-Kodesh. Rom 14:18 For the one who serves Messiah in this manner is pleasing to God and approved by men. Rom 14:19 So then let us pursue what makes for shalom and for the building up of one another. Rom 14:20 Stop tearing down the work of God for the sake of food. Indeed all things are clean, but wrong for the man who by eating causes stumbling. Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything by which your brother stumbles. Rom 14:22 The faith you have, keep it to yourself before God. How fortunate is the one who does not condemn himself for what he approves. Rom 14:23 But the one who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because it is not of faith. And whatever is not of faith is sin.
I do not teach mandated dietary laws – because they have nothing to do with our spiritual relationship with the comforter
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2022 15:35:13 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, Happy Sabbath
All who receive salvation under Jesus our Yashuah has to come under His banner of love. And therefore we all become "spiritual Judaism, a Hebrew, meaning to Cross OVER."
That means we also are required to have the laws in our hearts, obeying all the precepts of Jesus ordinances, until all is fulfilled and He comes to take us home. So it seems I am more of a Jew than you are Dave. I follow all the OT and NT torah teachings in my daily life, as principles that are from love.
I am not aware of such things as "mandated dietary laws" ? Must you impose a yoke upon our necks? However we are required to live and eat holy food, because God is holy and the HS lives inside of us, our bodies are the dwelling place of God.
I love the way you twist Messianic quotes....
"Notice especially "The notion of a dual godhead with a Father and a Son, the notion of a Redeemer who himself will be both God and man,
D" YES – I agree – Jesus Christ was 100% Son of Man + God incarnate (the image of God – Christ)
R" Did you not catch the word "dual godhead" with a Father and a Son?
Your view has no godhead, you have a Father and a Father expressed as a Son on earth. So when the expression required in heaven as a high priest, is the expression still an expression, or does the Father become our High Priest?
If you say the expression becomes our High Priest, you have formed a clone of the Father.
SO we have three clones or two clones of the Father in heaven, so you stick to you monotheism.
And since you do not support Jews or even Messianic Jews, STOP talking about them then. So if you are a NT Christian, where is the NT assembly you support and go to?
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
A NT ordinance here says you are to assembly the brothers every Sabbath, so what church of assembly do you attend that matches your theories of faith?
SHalom
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