|
Post by Dave on Dec 13, 2019 6:36:21 GMT -5
All relationships are created by GOD... remember the shadow experiments I showed you? two fathers in heaven for relationship [/font]. Jesus, the Jew saw Hebrew different from Jews. There are two fathers in heaven, for relationships. One causes you to sin. The other doesn't. Jesus, a Jew said Satan is the father of ra. You mis-quote my statement, there are
Satan doesn't create anything.
No Ra is created by GOD, including RA relationships, [/quote] So confusing – did God make RA or did your satan? Either God is the creator of everything – or there is another creator god! You should pick one side of your own argument and stay on it
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Dec 13, 2019 10:23:37 GMT -5
In the New Testament, there is the ‘reg dragon with seven heads and 10 horns’ and the Devil, who is Satan Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; Who are these multiple players of evil? One angel named Satan?
You forget the hierarchy evil these multiple players of evil? One angel named Satan?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
A leader has an army, and makes war in heaven, long before mankind was created. Scripture really does say this.
Didn’t answer my question Who is the dragon? – who is the beast? – if they are both satan then satan is thrown nto the lake of fire where satan already is Question – if the beast is already in the lake of fire – before the final judgment – explain this! How can the beast be out and about creating your ra – if it is already in the lake – before your satan. Or do you have two satans? I big satan and a little satan? The Great Archon is hidden in the darkness now and always has been – An army of lessor beings (archon) do the Chief Archon’s bidding Explain to me how your satan can do the things he does in your world – while being bound to the abyss?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 15:00:38 GMT -5
Dave, you didn't read my topics on shadow experiments, did you?
You also changing the topic, suggesting Satan is locked up in the abyss, even now?
I will go to the trouble to show you the shadow experiment. You can do this at home, with a study lamp, representing GOD, and the desk, representing the medium, so you can see the shadows affect. You simply hold a pen in the light medium. A relationship is just that, you walking in God's light. You have two choices, walk towards the light or walk away from the light. The relationship affect is always created by GOD.
When your far from GOD, there are two shadows. Always two shadows. One shadow is choshek, the blackest shadow, the other shadow is like chataah, the sin-offering. Or a light covered shadow. The choshek shadow is not found with any light in it. Defined by light, but no light found within it. The other shadow is defined by light, but also has some light found within the shadow. Hence the term "sin-offering NOT unto death" is found in Scripture. The other type of shadow, where no light is found within is a Shadow of Death, a simile of choshek. I have dozens of Bible texts to back all of this up, for now, just do the experiment.
When you move towards the light, the choshek shadow vanishes, and only the sin-offering shadow is left, getting larger, because you become more aware of your missing before GOD than before. But the important thing here is the light enters into the shadow with you, making your whole.
When you move away from the light, the choshek shadow returns, and the Scripture says you will die the eternal death of non-existence for this sin you do because GOD cannot enter into the choshek shadow with you. In other words GOD's light doesn't enter choshek shadows. Therefore God doesn't do ra personally.
What causes the tov and ra affect in this shadow experiment? You do. Your hand holding the pen.
Now we also need to consider, WHOM are the influences which cause you to move towards GOD or away from GOD? First do we need such influences? Yes because in our world, it is relational, based on Beings and Relationships. Peer group pressure is huge. No man is an island. We all have relational influences and forces from Beings.
The two Beings which influence your hand holding your pen, is either Jesus, or Satan. They both have their armies of peer group pressure on you and your decision to move towards God or away from God.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2019 15:48:31 GMT -5
To answer your other question
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
In the beginning choshek was already on earth.
choshek is a simile of the shadow of death choshek is a simile of the abyss or a place on earth.
2Pe 2:4 For if God <theos> spared not the angels <aggelos> that sinned <hamartano>, but cast them down to hell <tartaroo>,
This verse uses some Greek words only once.
In Hebrew would this say some malak chata but cast them to shaowl Or some cherub chata but cast them to shaowl
tartaroo suggests a deeper part of shaowl?
Notice the first thing I do is render the Scriptures back to Hebrew.
hades is the translated word for shaowl. Ps 16:10, Act 2:31
If Satan walked and tempted Jesus in his time on earth, than Satan is not locked up in the shaowl is he?
Dave: "Who is the dragon? – who is the beast? – if they are both satan then satan is thrown into the lake of fire where satan already is
Satan is termed serpent, dragon or fallen cherub. He is also sar, prince of earth, with earth his kingdom. Adam used to be sar or prince of earth, but he sinned, agreeing with Satan, so lost His crown.
When you sin, you make an agreement with a more powerful Being who sinned before you, that your choice to sin, is in harmony with the Being who also sinned long before you.
If you suggest the Father sins, than the Father is violating His own kingdom founded upon tov, not ra. In the shadows experiment, while the Father defines ra or creates ra, the Father actually doesn't do the ra, you do, and the Satan Being your agreeing with, also does this walking away from GOD, so you both agree walking away from GOD is OK.
Question – if the beast is already in the lake of fire – before the final judgment – explain this! How can the beast be out and about creating your ra – if it is already in the lake – before your satan.
Re 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (KJV)
These are the only texts speaking about beast and fire. They suggest events towards the end of time.
Dave: "How can the beast be out and about creating your ra – if it is already in the lake – before your satan.
You need to unpack your statement more, with Bible texts. I am confused.
First Einstein says evil doesn't exist, on it's own. Evil is simple a convenient term people use to define relationships where people are far from GOD. Therefore only light creates the boundaries of evil, but light doesn't actually enter the evil within, you do. God creates the framework for ra, but doesn't actually do the ra, you do.
A beast is a simile of a strong authority, acting or doing Satan's bidding.
Rev 18 is a whole chapter on Babylon, the beast power. Rev 19 is a whole chapter about Jesus as a power putting an end to the beast power.
Re 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20 speaks about after the beast power is locked up on earth, when all humans are either killed or those faithful taken to heaven.
The Devil, Satan and his army of angels are left alone on earth for 1000 years without any humans alive on earth. During this time there is a judgement, where all the claims of Satan are investigated, without Satan being there in the heavenly court. Its not like our court, on earth, instead all the evidence is written down, and investigated by the jury, the humans who are not biased, law abiding, and look into every deed Satan does to influence humans. Every deed God does to influence humans is also written down. Any jury can watch any video, second by second, even the hidden thoughts, all penned for every case, including all the fallen angels, and even Satan himself. It takes a 1000 years to investigate every case, the jury wishes to investigate.
Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
What causes this loosing? The wicked are raised, giving Satan hope to take God's new city by force. But after another judgement, this time the wicked see all they do, even Satan bows to His sentence, and those who are not fireproof are burned up in the presence of love burning.
SO if you want to present something Dave, place your Bible texts line upon line, so we can follow you. Shalom. Happy Sabbath.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 5:51:31 GMT -5
OK sorry Dave for being harsh... you're right
God asks a question, Satan asks another question
so its not an attack...( your view)
Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Who does the Ra upon Job, God or Satan? I guess you would say satan, God has departments for doing His Ra upon us. SO Satan is a good guy doing a bad job.
Still don't buy this, but accept your view.
I ponder, in a court room, is the DA and the other attorney allowed to be rude to the judge or each other, if they are enemies, how would you know from speech if they were or not?
I find the evidence Jews present here is not strong. To assess if Satan is an enemy of YHWH, we would ask Jesus in the NT, something Jews reading only the OT can't.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Who is this sar Jesus is talking about, also referenced as archon in Greek?
Satan correct?
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
Notice you line up line upon line.
How can you say Devil = Satan = father of lies, is really a good guy doing a bad job?
Why does Jesus judge Satan?
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Because Satan caused Adam to sin, making all born of humans under the curse of fallen DNA. This sin makes it easier for Satan to be ruler over humans:
Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation
This is a court word, a ruling was made in the heavenly court, when Adam sinned...
Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were ruled sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be ruled righteous.
Earth went from Adam as prince to Satan as prince. And Jesus dying on the cross, regained the earth as prince.
Do any of these texts suggest to you Satan is a good guy of Jesus, or mortal enemies?
You see Jews might be open, that's good. SO when you read Scripture line upon line, including the NT torah.
Should there be a later rain torah, based on former rain torah? yes
Ho 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
This text tells us to expect latter rain as well as former rain.
Rain is a word simile of torah, the throwing down of truth.
"although thou movedst me against him," from Job 2
SO a Jew sees this as both on the same side, the tester gets God to test Job, for what reason? Is not Job already perfect and saved? therefore further testing is not necessary?
So why the question, have you considered Job?
They have to be enemies.... relax your love on Job, and let me hate him some more, and your love will mean nothing ... God agrees to this challenge from his enemy... because he sees Job and love despite being hated without cause...Satan doesn't see this, so agrees to go and hate as only Satan knows how.
SHalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Dec 15, 2019 15:24:38 GMT -5
Question #1 for RobIn the New Testament, there is the ‘reg dragon with seven heads and 10 horns’ and the Devil, who is Satan Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; Who are these multiple players of evil? One angel named Satan?
You forget the hierarchy evil these multiple players of evil? One angel named Satan?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
A leader has an army, and makes war in heaven, long before mankind was created. Scripture really does say this.
Didn’t answer my question Who is the dragon? – who is the beast? – if they are both satan then satan is thrown nto the lake of fire where satan already is Question – if the beast is already in the lake of fire – before the final judgment – explain this! How can the beast be out and about creating your ra – if it is already in the lake – before your satan. The Great Archon is hidden in the darkness now and always has been – An army of lessor beings (archon) do the Chief Archon’s bidding Explain to me how your satan can do the things he does in your world – while being bound to the abyss? Rev 12:9 (ASV) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, And the great dragon was cast out #1 – Then the #2 the old serpent, the devil, satan (TLV) 12:9 The great dragon was thrown out, that ancient serpent, also known as the Devil and Satan [the Adversary], the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. (OJB) 9 And the great Dragon, that NACHASH HaKadmoni (Ancient Serpent) was thrown down, the one being called the Malshin (Informer, Accuser) and Hasatan, the one deceiving the whole inhabited world. He was thrown to ha’aretz (the earth) and the malachim of him were thrown down with him [BERESHIS 3:1-7] (HNV) 9 The great dragon was thrown down, the old serpent, he who is called the devil and Hasatan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was thrown down to the There are two beings here – #1 The Great Dragon – #2and the ancient serpent (satan = the devil)Proof (TLV) 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are too (HNV) 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. (OJB) 10 And Hasatan, the one deceiving them, was cast into the Agam HaEish (fire) and gofrit (sulfur), where both the Chayyah [Anti-Moshiach] and the Navi Sheker (False Prophet) were, The beast – the anti-Messiah are not the same being as the satan and devil When the satan is thrown into the lake of fire – the anti-Messiah beast is where? - it is already thereWhere do the Gnostics texts say the Great Dragon – the Chief Archon live? In the cloud of fire and smoke to hide its ugliness from the rest of creation! The Beast of Rev – the Chief Archon of the Gnostics – resides in the darkness of fire and smoke A completely different being – acting as the accuser - Hasatan Again I ask you to specify for me who the beast of Revelation is – that Great dragon – Catholic Great Red DragonYou just call every bad guy satan – how can you tell the difference between the different players if you just call them all satan? The Beast who is the Great Dragon is not the same being as satanQuestion – if the beast is already in the lake of fire – before the final judgment – explain this!
How can the beast be out and about creating your ra – if it is already in the lake – before your satan. Re 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (KJV)These are the only texts speaking about beast and fire. They suggest events towards the end of time. And your answer is?Who is the Beast – the Great Dragon – if it is not your satan? If it is your satan how can God throw satan into the lake where satan already is? It is a simple question If the beast and the satan are not the same being then which one is your Ezk 28 about? Question #2Rev 12:10 (KJV) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. (NKJV) Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. (NLT)Then I heard a loud voice shouting across the heavens, “It has come at last— salvation and power and the Kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers and sistershas been thrown down to earth— the one who accuses them before our God day and night. (NIV) Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. (ESV) And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. (CSB) Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say, The salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have now come, because the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been thrown down. (NASB) Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. (NET) Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, "The salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the ruling authority of his Christ, have now come, because the accuser of our brothers and sisters, the one who accuses them day and night before our God, has been thrown down. (RSV) And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. (ASV) And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accuseth them before our God day and night. (YLT) And I heard a great voice saying in the heaven, 'Now did come the salvation, and the power, and the reign, of our God, and the authority of His Christ, because cast down was the accuser of our brethren, who is accusing them before our God day and night; (DBY) And I heard a great voice in the heaven saying, Now is come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ; f or the accuser of our brethren has been cast out, who accused them before our God day and night: (WEB) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night. (HNV) I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now is come the salvation, the power, and the Kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah; for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night. (OJB) And I heard a kol gadol (loud voice) in Shomayim, saying, “Now has come the Yeshu’at Eloheinu and the Gevurah (Power) and the Malchut of Hashem Eloheinu and the memshalah (government) of his Moshiach, because the Malshin who is the accuser of our Achim b’Moshiach, the one accusing them before Hashem yomam valailah (day and night) was thrown down (HNV) I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now is come the salvation, the power, and the Kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah; for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night. (TLV) Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Anointed One, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters—the one who accuses them before our God day and night —has been thrown out.
Why doesn’t any translation – even Hebrew ones – say satan is God’s opponent? They all say – satan is man’s accuser – as in the DA
Explain why none of these translation support your view that satan is God's opponet!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 2:34:32 GMT -5
When you make judgements in the NT, don't read it only in Greek. Wasn't the Scriptures ALL originally written in Hebrew.
There is a Hebrew word for 'dragon', and here is a major clue:
Isa 27:1 ¶ In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent "nachash"; and he shall slay the dragon "tanniyn" that is in the sea.
Notice the poetry simile logic of this verse, gives two functions of action unto the same sea creature, the "livyathan".
You would have to investigate what different actions these two Hebrew words mean, the "nachash"; and the "tanniyn".
Now with this meaning look at the Hebrew words in the NT verses:
Re 12:9 And the great dragon "tanniyn". was cast out, that old serpent "nachash"; , called the Devil, and Satan "ha-satan", which deceiveth the whole world:
So all these different Hebrew actions refer to the same Strong Authority, that opposes Elohim.
Now to a verse you raise:
Re 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Again you're reading this in Greek. Ask yourself what would have been the words in Hebrew.
To do justice to this, I do cross referencing as this is the strongest proof the Hebrew matches the Greek.
Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist "satan" him.
This verse cross references the term "accused them" , related to "the accuser".
Thus the verse in Hebrew would read
Re 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come Yeshua, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the "satan" of our brethren is cast down, which "satan" them before our Elohiym day and night.
Thus this term "satan" verb in the NT means to "Accuse" and in the noun form in the NT means "Accuser".
The verse tells you this, because it mentions Christ. Who opposed Christ on the earth? Satan did...
Mt 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
It is not difficult to read Hebrew correctly if you line up each command (tav) line upon line, here and there, across the OT and NT torah.
Dave: "Why doesn’t any translation – even Hebrew ones – say satan is God’s opponent? They all say – satan is man’s accuser – as in the DA
Explain why none of these translation support your view that satan is God's opponent!
I guess the translations are swayed by the Greek, rather than seeing the Greek is a translation already of the Hebrew.
Do you have an online Hebrew English Interlinear of the NT? I can't find one. The verse in Rev 12: 10 should read the "satan of our brethren".
Regarding your OJB, it's not a consistent Hebrew translation is it? Too influenced by the KJV...
For example:
8 And they heard the kol of Hashem Elohim walking in the gan in the cool of the day; and HaAdam
The word "cool" is "ruwach". A special wind. Its influenced by KJV.
8 And they heard the kol of Hashem Elohim walking in the gan in the "wind of the Holy Spirit", in the day; and HaAdam
I am being fair to include both secular and special meaning for ruwach.
Rev 12: 10 (OJB) And I heard a kol gadol (loud voice) in Shomayim, saying, “Now has come the Yeshu’at Eloheinu and the Gevurah (Power) and the Malchut of Hashem Eloheinu and the memshalah (government) of his Moshiach, because the Malshin who is the accuser of our Achim b’Moshiach, the one accusing them before Hashem yomam valailah (day and night) was thrown down [IYOV 1:9-11; ZECHARYAH 3:1]
However for the OJB verse, it shows correctly the cross references to Hebrew, the word "satan = accuser". Well done OJB.
Dave: "Why doesn’t any translation – even Hebrew ones – say satan is God’s opponent? They all say – satan is man’s accuser – as in the DA
Isn't this verse about salvation of man. And who is Man's accuser? Satan is.
Now you raise satan as God's satan or opponent. Is GOD challenged by Satan?
Mt 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
In this passage Jesus is asked to worship Satan. Why? Jesus refused. Why? Obviously Satan must be an opponent to Elohiym.
Hope this helps you. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Dec 16, 2019 4:35:35 GMT -5
So - let me see if I got your view correctly
Every translation of the agl is incorrect Even the Hebrew translations of the agl are incorrect And for over 4000 years no Hebrew speaker - or no Jewish Scholar understands their own language
I asked you - who is the beast in relation to your satan
Your answer - the whole world is wrong except you and satan is God's opponet Is that an answer? This is your only answer - everyone else is wrong except you and satan is God's opponet
I have read your reply over and over - I just don't see you answering my question
I ask - who is the beast - you answer satan is God's opponet
So - at least answer the second 1/2 of my question If the beast = satan and the beast is in the lake of fire before satan is thrown in Then who is satan #2?
Or answer this - why is the Messianic Jewish New Testament called the 'Tree of Life Bible'?
Why does it offend you that Jewish Kabbalah is 100% Trinititarian Christian?
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Dec 16, 2019 5:08:39 GMT -5
Mt 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Obviously Satan must be an opponent to Elohiym. And who is Man's accuser? Satan is. Now you raise satan as God's satan or opponent. Is GOD challenged by Satan?Jesus Christ was 100% man as He walked on this earth! Are you saying that Jesus did not have to experience life as a man?If Jesus did not experience 100% of what it is life to be human - then His gift is not perfect Hell - if Jesus didn't have to be tempted / tested by satan than why did he even have to die? Why did Jesus suffer circumcision if He was Perfect - this is what anti-christian Rabbis ask IMO - your theology is very limited and one dimensional and if something doesn't fit your limited view - you declair it wrong - or won't look at it so much of history and the world around us has to be wrong for your theology to fly The tighter you cling to a one word view - the more you miss out on the richness of the text The richness of the Hebrew results in their Kabbalah the meaning within the meaning - layers of meaning - depth of meaning The more Kabbalah the Jew - the more scientifically genious he becomes(Ashkenazi Jews) Why? Because the Torah is 100% correct - even as to particle physics Psalms 19:1 - Rom 1:20 - are 100% right on Why does it offend you when I make reference to science as a scriptural validation? Why does so much information have to be wrong - for your view to be comfortable for you?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 13:52:18 GMT -5
Dave, I am not offended by Science validating Scripture.
I have much science validating Scripture...
For example, the shadow experiment, not sure if you commented on this?
Dave: "So - let me see if I got your view correctly
Every translation of the agl is incorrect Even the Hebrew translations of the agl are incorrect And for over 4000 years no Hebrew speaker - or no Jewish Scholar understands their own language
I asked you - who is the beast in relation to your Satan
Your answer - the whole world is wrong except you and satan is God's opponent Is that an answer? This is your only answer - everyone else is wrong except you and Satan is God's opponent
I have read your reply over and over - I just don't see you answering my question
I ask - who is the beast - you answer Satan is God's opponent
So - at least answer the second 1/2 of my question If the beast = Satan and the beast is in the lake of fire before Satan is thrown in Then who is Satan #2?
Sorry Dave to be stressing you. Please make you Scripture reference clear.
Which beast, which verse in the KJV? Which verse of this Satan in the fire/ abyss?
You need to write specifically, so we discuss specifically. Too much emotional response, overwhelms both of us.
For example :
Mt 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
So you reply is wasn't Jesus 100% man, thus this is only a Satan attacking the man in Jesus, not the God in Jesus. OK fair enough, but you did not reply in this way... I am assuming this is what you want to say.
Doesn't other Scripture of Jesus, say He came to take the "kingdom of this world" from the "Prince of the world"? Why does our world have a "prince" why is our world a "kingdom", and why does our world have a "king"?
These are big terms, than just man having man as a ruler over mankind. One world government is coming? Why?
Doesn't Jesus say the Satan is the father of lies, a murderer from the beginning...
Could this be only over man? Or something larger, back in time?
What about this than?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Surely this war was not over mankind?
Dave: "The richness of the Hebrew results in their Kabbalah the meaning within the meaning - layers of meaning - depth of meaning
Beware of the traditions and precepts of men, Scripture says.
Have you every heard of
"Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:"
What is the historical account of Simon, the Great One? Why does Luke include this man in Scripture?
Perhaps this account might help you?
Shalom my friend
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Dec 17, 2019 9:27:21 GMT -5
The Beast who is the Great Dragon is not the same being as satanQuestion – if the beast is already in the lake of fire – before the final judgment – explain this!
How can the beast be out and about creating your ra – if it is already in the lake – before your satan. Re 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (KJV)These are the only texts speaking about beast and fire. They suggest events towards the end of time. And your answer is?Who is the Beast – the Great Dragon – if it is not your satan? If it is your satan how can God throw satan into the lake where satan already is? It is a simple question I asked you - who is the beast in relation to your Satan
Your answer - the whole world is wrong except you and satan is God's opponent Is that an answer? This is your only answer - everyone else is wrong except you and Satan is God's opponentI have read your reply over and over - I just don't see you answering my question
I ask - who is the beast - you answer Satan is God's opponent
So - at least answer the second 1/2 of my questionIf the beast = Satan and the beast is in the lake of fire before Satan is thrown in Then who is Satan #2? Question #1 - Who is the Beast of Revelation 20:10 Question #2 – who is the satan of Revelation 20:10 So far your only answer has been – It is a simple question - who is the trinity of evil? All you can say is satan - everything is just satan - whom you say is one individual like Christ - you have a guy for good and a guy for evil - except revelation clearily says there is a trinity of evil and the Beast is home in the abyss Now it is your turn - tell me how incorrect scripture is
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Dec 17, 2019 11:12:51 GMT -5
I do not mean to make this a trick questionQuestion #1 - Who is the Beast of Revelation 20:10 Question #2 – who is the satan of Revelation 20:10 And I’ll add – who is the false prophet of Revelation 20:10 Gnostic answers make 100% perfect sense – consistent with all scripture everywhere Before Gen 1:1 The Creator – a singularity – existed This is 100% indescribable to 3D man – uncomprehendible – beyond our ability to define or describe let alone understand John 1 the Word was spoken – this is an expression – it is the electromagnetic vibratory spectrum that is omnipresent (matrix / ether / medium) – it is also the Word that vibrated throughout that electromagnetic spectrum (corporeal reality) – and all of it is God Gen 1:1 – Creation – I rail against the notion that something came from nothing God’s Laws – Thermodynamics – energy (the energized electromagnetic spectrum) cannot be created or destroyed – only translated or transmuted This is why I like bara = fatten God fatted Himself – He expanded – He spoke an expression WE – Human Man – experience this expression as a duality – Heavens (spirit) and Earth (corporeal) We experience the Creator as a duality - Christ and Holy Spirit In His image we are made – Male and Female E (fattened / exploded / expanded) into mc2 / earth and heavens / male and female Col 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; Through Him (God / Christ – who are the same) made dominions or principalities or powers; all The Jews would say tov of the right hand (direct) – ra of the left hand (indirect) – who is the left if Christ is the right? HS Gnostics say – HS = the ether /the matrix / the medium that sustains all things – through this medium (the only medium) the Chief Archon was made – the very first expression of (God-is-not-absolute / or just simple arrogance / ME – it all about ME) Gnostics say – this creature was immediately hidden within a cloud of smoke and fire (the abyss) to hide it – because it was ugly Rev 20:10 – when satan is thrown into the lake of fire – who is already there – the Beast – the Chief Archon – The Dragon And all of this happened in Gen 1:2 resulting in the choshek – the abyss – the darkness – the delusion – the deception Question #2 – who is the satan of Revelation 20:10Gnostic – this could be multiple players from the spirit realm – all archon It is not the beast / Chief Archon (the metaphorical king of the archon) It is a lieutenant (or multiple lieutenants) of the Chief Archon (Gnostics describe 7 + 12 of them) all satan’s with different areas of responsibility - ‘sar’ of Persia – ‘sar’ of the Catholic Church – ‘sar’ of Islam – ‘sar’ of America / Deep State – all operating under the ‘sar’ of Earth All of these are agents of the Chief Archon – all of these are functions of the chief archon None of these has anything to do with Exk 28 or Isa 14 Is satan the one angel who stood up to oversee the chaos in Hades - NOQuestion #3 - who is the false prophet of Revelation 20:10 Gnostic – the concept of being a false prophet implies teaching man – anything other than the truth of Rom 1:20 and Psa 19:1 or John 3:16 – or – or – or Again multiple players from multiple areas of responsibility Mohammad – Allah – Pope somebody – Joseph Smith – Marshall Applewhite Siddhartha – Confucius – who are the epitome of – no-god, do it yourselfElrond Hubbard – Jimmy Jones – Calvin!The Jews make it all about one on one with Israel their 1% The Catholics make it all one on one with the Christians – their 1% Gnostics – include the entire whole of God’s creation – it is a much bigger picture = 100%
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Dec 17, 2019 11:18:05 GMT -5
Dave, you didn't read my topics on shadow experiments, did you?
You also changing the topic I am talking about the archon you are talking about the darkness I am talking about the fish in the ocean - you are talking about the ocean It is a nice presentation - but completely off topic Why don't you comment on L.A. Marzuli? Agree - disagree? All BS in your reality? For me it is a lot more on topic than just the darkness - I am interested in the archon from within that darkness - those that fit Eph 6:12 L.A. Marzulli is Christian not Gnostic Hosted by Chuck Missler - a Christian not a Gnostic Other than the use of "Fallen Angel" - all of this viseo is 100% Gnostic and 100% archon Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/420/marzulli?page=1&scrollTo=3092#ixzz68NuvuHod
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 13:53:03 GMT -5
Dave:"Why don't you comment on L.A. Marzuli?
No worries, I will.
He says every context of "ben elohiym" refers to angels...
That is not so.
Ge 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Ge 6:4 ¶ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 2:1 ¶ Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Ro 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 1Jo 3:1 ¶ Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (KJV)
There are 11 sentences that would have used "ben elohiym" in Hebrew.
You tell me what this term means ?
IMO , it refers to Beings to follow GOD and support GOD, can be perhaps both angels and humans, and other unfallen beings.
In Genesis 6 He speaks of Satan and angels wanting Beings in his image, a breeding ground.
That is also not so.
It implies angels are sexually the same kind as mankind. Where is your proof?
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2019 0:58:27 GMT -5
[/p] IMO - In Genesis 6 He speaks of Satan [/quote] WHAT – you see your satan god everywhere – quote the verse in Gen 6 that speaks of satan! 6 agl verses = children of the one true God Joh 1:12 … children of God … Τέκνον - G5043 - a child (as produced): - child, daughter, son. + θεός - G2316 – God singular Joh 1:12 … become children of God, … υἱός - G5207 - of immediate kinship: - child, foal, son. + θεός - G2316 – God singular Rom 8:19 … sons of God. υἱός - G5207 - of immediate kinship: - child, foal, son. + θεός - G2316 – God singular Php 2:15 … children of God … Τέκνον - G5043 - a child (as produced): - child, daughter, son. + θεός - G2316 – God singular 1Jn 3:1 … children of God … Τέκνον - G5043 - a child (as produced): - child, daughter, son. + θεός - G2316 – God singular 1Jn 3:2 … children of God, … Τέκνον - G5043 - a child (as produced): - child, daughter, son. + θεός - G2316 – God singular 5 ahl verses = bane elohiym Gen 6:2 that the sons of God … bane - H1121 – son + 'ĕlôhı̂ym - H430 - Plural - gods in the ordinary sense (Archon) Gen 6:4 … sons of God … bane - H1121 – son + 'ĕlôhı̂ym - H430 - Plural - gods in the ordinary sense (Archon) Job 1:6 … sons of God … bane - H1121 – son + 'ĕlôhı̂ym - H430 - Plural - gods in the ordinary sense (Archon) Job 2:1 … sons of God … bane - H1121 – son + 'ĕlôhı̂ym - H430 - Plural - gods in the ordinary sense (Archon) Job 38:7 … sons of God - shouted for joy? bane - H1121 – son + 'ĕlôhı̂ym - H430 - Plural - gods in the ordinary sense (Archon) Shouted for Joy = one word - rûa‛ - H7321 - figuratively to split the ears (with sound), that is, shout (for alarm : - blow an alarm, cry (alarm, aloud, out), destroy, , smart, sound an alarm – sometimes shouted for joy as in a victory cry or a triumph agl = children of the one true God ahl = sons of the elohiym (plural – heavenly beings – ARCHON) It implies that the archon managed to do it - once they were earth-bound They failed at first – but altered their form to be successful Where is my proof – all I have are the words of the disciples John, James, Peter, Phillip, Thomas, and the Apostille Paul – and the Books of Enoch and Jubilees – and the works of Solomon But all of this is outside of Rome’s approval – so doubt it – if Rome is your authority
|
|