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Post by Dave on Dec 7, 2019 12:59:16 GMT -5
This is my experience and why I gnosis – I do not believe or believe strongly – I ‘gnosis’ I experienced something back in 1974 that changed my life Yes! – it happened during a DRUG OVERDOSE at the lowest point in my life Because of that one night in my life – I ran away and joined the Marines, I eventually ended in psychoanalytical counseling – Yes I am Manic Depressive – I sought out and received a diagnosis (I got exactly what I paid for)
Did not change the reality of my experience
If you admit that you ‘saw’ something – ‘experienced ‘something – you get grouped with the UFO crowd This is how I met Rich – and one reason I live where I do – I have so many UFO related stories that make me pause and Ponder. 2017 Newspaper clipping from this country telling of organs surgically removed from Cattel – overnight – without a witness or leaving tracks – 10 miles from me
Near me – Mesa Verde (What beings caused the Indians to retreat into fortifications with impossible access) – Sky City of the Anasazi Indian and their history of the ‘Snake People’ and stories of the ages of man and future. The Navaho prophesies for the Americas and the ages of man. Dulce, New Mexico! After work in Salida, Colorado – I would stop in at ‘ET’s Landing’ for supper. 4 Corners of America is famous for UFO sightings – many belief there is a ‘gate way’ or ‘portal’ (gate to the abyss?) – interdimensional doorway in North West New Mexico. The HWY used to be 666 – until Christians made them change it in the 90s. Google any of it – your neighbor is correct – ALIENS with UFOs
The archon were not born on earth – they were created in the heavens - they are alien and extraterrestrial (just vocabulary) – to me angels (good guys) are also alien (were they born on earth? NO!) – just vocabulary
I am flexible with the word satan - it is a position of function My stupid example – Christians are at war with their enemy A divine being appears to them all at once The Christians see an angel – good guy The enemy sees a destroying angel – bad guy – archon AND the non-believers see a UFO and an Alien
Gnostic texts say – you and I can move beyond just being Christians – but we can become a Christ I struggled with this for years Now – I see satan as a position of function – very real – as the function of deception – keep us from remembering – anti-awaking forces Satan in the Bible (for me) never even has to be the same guy The ‘divine being’ the elohiym that tempted Job – might not even be the same guy as the satan that tested Saul – and another elohiym could have been the satan that tempted Eve If I talk you into sinning – I can be your satan (I – as mortal man can serve the function of satan in your life)
Gnostic – If I can be your satan – then I can also can be a Christ for you. Jews say Adam, Abraham, Moses, and even non-Jew Cyrus were all Christ figures (position of function – not personage)
THIS IS SO IMPORTANT to me
Allah first - Dan 10:13 But the prince (“sar” H8269) of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days; Sar - (Strongs) a head person (of any rank or class): - captain (that had rule), chief (captain), general, governor, keeper, lord, ([-task-]) master, prince (-ipal), ruler, steward.
Gnostic – this “sar” is not the same as satan in Job – although this sar is acting like a satan (function)
This is just the ‘sar’ of Persia – Chuck Missles makes a very good case that other nations also have ‘sar’ over them – i.e. sar of Saudia Arabia – sar of Turckey – sar of gog – sar of magog – sar of America
Nag Hammadi says – 72 sar (archon – head ruler, captain, governor) controlling 72 nations – 72 realms Each individual archon – with a specific area of responsibility - Catholic Church – Islam – Deep State – 13 Families – and space aliens with UFOs Each – with its own commander / ruler / archon operating under a hierarchy of RA All of this is earth centered and man centered
Gnostic – earth is not the center of the universe (Catholics thought the entire universe was just about ROME – hated Galileo and Copernicus for proving them not) Today – not only is the earth not the center of anything – but this universe is only one of ten dimensions
Christ came and spoke the Gospel – the First Christians wrote it down – The center of the First Christians was Egypt – not Rome. The First Christians walked away from Constantine and governmental state religion – leaving a power vacuum
Rome steps into this power gap and rewrote the history and began a VERY HARSH edit of anything that worship Rome and it leadership. – AND persecuted the First Christians out of existence – AND erase / eliminate any reference to the reality of the archon – THIS IS THE ROMAN EDIT – thought police Rephiem is exist in the gene pool – some might be giant in stature – but many are not – as in the 13 Families that rule the world A genetic link – that allows possession / or suggestion / or influence in any way – 100% David Ike
God created everything – agreed and allowed a controlled creation of ra – OK, agree But a Gnostic will make the point that ra was an indirect creation – a by-product, a consequence A Gnostic would argue – God never said let there be ra – it happened indirectly A Jew say tov is of the right hand – ra of the left hand – no matter how you say it – there exist a duality One moving toward the Creator – one moving away
Gnostic – what is this moving away – it is the first notion that the Creator is not the absolute The first independent though of arrogance – the first thought that diminished God-as-absolute John the author of 5 books of the agl says – it came about by the HS James – the brother of Jesus says – it came about by the HS They are Jews – they said it came about by the left hand
Rom 1:20 – Entropy is a consequence of negentropy. Wind it up – it slows down – it retards (I like this word in science = forgetfulness) – It is God’s Law – it is the Second Law of Thermodynamics - Psalms 19:1
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; … and he himself tempteth no man:
This is the role of the archon – their job is to test all creation – Earth and man is just small fraction of the whole – ‘Gnostic All’
We are born in communion – but as we choose carnal nature (yester ra) the communion wanes – Correct – but the Soul is still there urging you to remember – what you forgot
Jas 1:13 – different deprtment
All of the ‘other gods’ are archon beings desiring worship – they have full run over the 99% In the absence of YHWY – they gnosis Psalm 19:1. In the absence of YHWY any super-natural being – whether from space or the heavens would serve as gods – pseudo-gods
They are tools of the Creator – used as tools – used as pawns against Israel all through the ahl A one dimensional Catholic will say to prove to the whole world who the one true God is A multi-dimensional Gnostic will say yes + whatever proof / message is happening in the heavens above – on the level of the archon and angels – Torah is a cosmic tale - not just an earthly tale
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 15:36:32 GMT -5
Jas 1:13 – different department
They are tools of the Creator – used as tools
Here we differ, God cannot tolerate ra relationships... or even raa wickedness...
So where did this wickedness come from? Cherub Beings who sinned.
You refuse to accept the Bible account on this, hence we have very different views, and thus GOD we worship.
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Post by Dave on Dec 7, 2019 16:39:05 GMT -5
That many – many are called – few are chosen – this is my response to people that tell me to find a church and blend in Are your giants fathered by god-guy angels? – NO! the bane elohiym were bad-guy angels = archon Teach me your method: Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. What does this passage mean according to your method? I am especially interested in the use of "kathistemi". [/b] Rom 5:19 ὥσπερ γὰρ διὰ τῆς παρακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἁμαρτωλοὶ κατεστάθησαν οἱ πολλοί, οὕτω καὶ διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται οἱ πολλοί. καθίστημι - kathistēmi - From G2596 and G2476; to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set. G2596 – κατά - … In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity. G2476 - ἵστημι - A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Second translation A primary particle; properly assigning a reason (used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles): - This is a ‘If –then’ – or cause and effect First condition because, for indeed, no doubt, - just as, that is, exactly like, as. - significant of abundance (thoroughness), that is, emphasis; much, very or ever: - primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through … because of (that), …, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, …, thereby, therefore, - one - manfaced, (Mind-Body) that is, a human being: - the - (by implication) disobedience: - disobedience. – many, much, plenteous -to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, … make, ordain, set. (with distribution or intensity.) abide, appoint, , continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), - sinners Second condition (the) attentive hearkening, that is, (by implication) compliance or submission: - obedience, obey (-ing). - one - many, much, plenteous - to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, … make, ordain, set. (with distribution or intensity.) abide, appoint, , continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), - equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous). Third translation One the one hand Indeed, no doubt, because - - significant abundance of emphasis throughout – because of , caused by, for the reason of - one Mind-Body Human being’s – THE - disobedience – many – permanently designated, appointed, ordained (with distribution intensity) - sinners On the other hand because of THE- attentive hearkening, compliance, submission, obedience, - one- many – permanently designated, appointed, ordained (with distribution intensity)- equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, right (-eous). Fourth translationOne the one hand - There is absolutely no doubt – The disobedience - one man caused – many - permanently designated, appointed, ordained – sinners But – on the other hand - because of THE attentive harkening, submission, obedience – of one – many - permanently designated, appointed, ordained - innocent, holy, just, Fifth translationOne the one hand – There is absolutely no doubt that The disobedience of one man caused many to be permanently ordained as sinners But, on the other hand, because of THE submission / obedience of one, many = (will be – future perfect) permanently ordained as innocent Rom 5:19 (ASV) For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous. Here - I disagree with my ASV There are only two articles - THE disobedience and THE obedience Of THE one - is not right in the Greek - it just says - of one [/quote] אמנה [אמוּנה - H530 - 'ĕmûnâh Feminine of H529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity: - faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily Hebrew Words For Faithinternetbiblecollege.net/Lessons/Hebrew%20Words%20For%20Faith.htm” It is obvious from the previous Hebrew definitions that “aman” or faith means: 1- to be certain about God and His character, unlimited power, wisdom and promises. 2- to totally trust God. 3- to be faithful or loyal to God just as a loving husband is to his wife. Such a husband ignores the adulterous suggestions of other unfaithful women. 4- and to continue to rely on God no matter what the problem or circumstance. As a Gnostic – I like the language of Rabbi Friedman – Faith = we remember that relationship we had with the Lord in the Womb – why do we remember? Because we are in relationship with God now. It is real – not a belief As a Gnostic – I would say – Faith = gnosis (I do not believe that God is real – I know it – it is FACT) Beliefs can change – FACTS do not The usual comeback is - even the demons knew - but it did not save them True - they cannot choose - Man is the only creature that can choose - that is why man is special. gnosis is power - Gen 3:5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil. Now that we gnosis - we have the gift of choice - our choice don't matter if we do not understand (gnosis) the choice - but once we realize (gnosis) that we are trapped within the Great Contest - we gnosis the difference between the choices I should make and the choices I want to make - we must gnosis the choice between mitzvah and chata (sin) - the movement toward TOV or RA
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Post by Dave on Dec 8, 2019 8:43:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 13:57:13 GMT -5
OK unpack your god a little more to me:
Gnostics have only one Creator Jews have only one Creator
This god created both evil, wickedness and goodness from the beginning.
Man has naturally both ra and tov in us from birth, even Adam?
So explain how and why Eve and Adam had to sin? What did sin actually do to them?
You explain their bright nature vanished? They learned gnosis. Is that it? Suddenly they discovered they knew ra and tov, which was in them from the beginning?
SO when did the animal begin eating each other? How long was it until something died? Did Adam see a leaf fall of a tree and die before he sinned? Did the dinosaurs eat flesh and Adam saw that?
Than you have a wicked god also creating archons, demons and opposing angels who help make our world terrible, so we humans endure this because it is a test. We have to choose yester tov, and move away from yester ra... WHY? Can you really answer why? If GOD creates both the good relationships and the bad relationships, why should I be good? If GOD is both good and bad, why can't I be? You don't answer this question?
You also have the holy Spirit creating demons which is really what an archon is, isn't it? Just so these demons test us humans... And when we are fully tested, the demons and the wicked go into a lake of fire, and end... so if you have an end for them, why did GOD create a beginning for them? If God can create a universe of only tov, why did He create a universe of ra and tov? You don't answer that question.
Why does GOD create and write with his own finger, laws he doesn't keep Himself?
Why do you mock my theory of faith, and call it Catholic? How do you know my theory of faith is Roman Catholic? Nobody knows the inner truthful secrets of Roman Catholic faith, so I am surprised you know them so well? I am surprised you know Hebrew so well, that you can label my faith so easily?
If you don't know my meaning of emanuah, or el, or elohiym, or eloah, or the inner meaning of YHWH, than how can you label my theory of faith so well, I haven't even explain it to you, and you do not read my website?
Your faith suggests "love" is a strong force... "love" is NOT a strong force.
Love does not force. Love does not kill. Love does not abuse. Love does not murder. Love does not even wound a brothers feelings.
Can you run a universe on such a weak force? Yes, but as long as only tov exists.
Can you run a universe on ra? First Dave, you haven't defined ra.
I agree ra can mean the physical dysfunction of things, like friction, entropy and decay.
But what about spiritual ra? Define that.
You can't define spiritual ra, unless you also contrast it to spiritual tov.
RA does things by force. RA makes laws you have to obey. Mandatory rules. RA kills. RA is the opposite of living. RA abuses. Rapes. Whores around. Belittles. Bullies. Mocks. RA murders. Shoots. Stabs. Bloody. RA is strong. Dog eat dog. I am strong, you are weak.
So if RA is the opposite of love, how can it be so powerful, if GOD is not empowering RA as an act of love? You can't answer that question either?
Where does the power of RA come from? It has to come from another Being, who makes those decisions of RA for you.
Go back Dave to another universe before ours? Did a universe of all tov exist with angels in it, never doing anything wrong? Can love work as the basis of relationship?
What does free will to choose mean to you? Choose what? It can't choose GOD or not choose GOD? Because GOD is all there is. Nothing exists without GOD.
The choice has to be, choose love or not love, something GOD is and something that GOD is not.
If you say GOD is both love and hate, than again we don't have free will of choice, the choice is from same GOD,, so it's not a choice?
Like Russians vote for different parties, all on the same side, all communists.
Like Australians vote for Labour or Liberal, but they are all Masons, on the same side. Is this democracy with free choice? NO. This is why people are fed up with voting...no choice...
You love free will, OK, what doesn't GOD have? your GOD that is?
My GOD has only love. This love runs entire universes with loving relationships in it. All the unfallen angels freely have a relationship with GOD, it seems robotic because it is never dysfunctional.
I don't know what your GOD is about, because you don't define your terms.
So when you introduce relationships not based on love, who wins the war?
I remember Bob Cook, a missionary told me of a story of his love for a islander of PNG, and he lived happily in their house for 20 years, nothing went wrong. One day for not reason, while hubby was away in town, the PNG man raped his wife. Where did this evil come from? 20 years of loving made no difference.
Inside the man, must have be a ruler to convinced him to do evil. You say archon, I say Satan. You say a test. I say a destructive ruler who opposes GOD all the time, and hates GOD.
Take away Satan as a ruler over earth, how much loving would increase and evil decrease? Heaps. The evil would go away, and GOD as ruler would prevail. But not all ra would cease, some humans would continue to do evil, because they too can decide to not love, but overall much of the kingdom of hate would fall, if Satan and his fallen angels were removed.
Also as a follower of GOD, I don't need your testing... to know tov.... but you insist this testing is good for me... its not I tell you... when a bad thought comes my way, I ask GOD via the consciousness of Holy Spirit, where did this voice come from? Satan is the reply... it's not a test at all, its a battle over my soul, to exclude me from the kingdom of tov. I am aware of my daily missing without Satan adding to my daily burdens... you think this is all OK... I can tell you from my walk with GOD it's not... absolutely not...
I am trying to overcome baal, the Hebrew word, I was born with since Adam sinned bringing this word into my DNA... its called self, the power of self to do its own thing... I always try to ask GOD , what should I say to them now? Often I the presence of others my Baal mouth speaks, not the Elohiym mouth speaks. Now I don't need some Archon or Satan adding to my daily burden... your testing is silly.
God wrote those comments in Israel times because they were stick necked and NOT following GOD at all, not even close...most failed... most SDA followers also fail... not sure of your denomination...In a world of ra and tov, God is a failure... sorry but love is a weak force... not a strong force at all...
Look at the market in this world...where can you buy tov food? you can't Where is there a tov hospital? All hospitals run on ra techniques... they jab you with toxins upfront as you enter...
Where is tov petrol or gas? None existent... petrol has xylem in it and benzene as well, cancerous stuff.
So you define your GOD clearly for me?
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Post by Dave on Dec 8, 2019 22:21:14 GMT -5
So many questions – I will answer each as honestly as possible – as I understand it I have tremendously strong academic opinions – that affect my cosmology
One on the reasons I am drawn to the truth of the Nag Hammadi authors is their concept of aeons (aions) aiōn - αἰών – Strong’s G165 From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550.
Gnostics literature – tell of different ‘aions’ – ages – periods of time – each ending with a Contest reset Anasazi / Navaho / and many American Indian embrace different ages of man Christians have – the aion of the ‘6 days of creation’ – then the aion of Adam –Noah – then the aion of Noah to babel – then the aion of Abraham – Israel – Christ and Christianity – awaiting the aion of Tribulation
Aion = an age – a time period – like saying a photograph is circa 1920 (aion 1920)
Aion also gets translated as world in the agl Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.
(Wiki) Aeon – 1- The Bible translation is a treatment of the Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aion. These words have similar meaning, and Young's Literal Translation renders them and their derivatives as "age" or "age-during". Other English versions most often translate them to indicate eternity, being translated as eternal, everlasting, forever, etc. However, there are notable exceptions to this in all major translations,
2- In many Gnostic systems, the various emanations of God, who is also known by such names as the One, the Monad, Aion teleos (αἰών τέλεος "The Broadest Aeon"), Bythos ("depth or profundity", Greek βυθός), Proarkhe ("before the beginning", Greek προαρχή), the Arkhe ("the beginning", Greek ἀρχή), "Sophia" (wisdom), Christos (the Anointed One) are called Aeons. In the different systems these emanations are differently named, classified, and described, but the emanation theory itself is common to all forms of Gnosticism.
1- I have no issue with the additive αἰώνιος meant perpetual time – everlasting time – therefore eternity is OK – but singular use translated as eternal is an error – aion + aion – for an age and an age does not mean eternal
2- The Trinity is called aions onto themselves – correct – each is an aion – I do not have an issue with this, The trinity is also called by other titles and names – I am not threatened by vocabulary Other translators and original authors used different vocabularies – without the Roman polish ancient texts read differently
Point – Different aions – ages – represented in the ahl For me – the Gap (Gen 1:1-3) = an entire aion by itself – a lot happened there that we only have glimpses of (Jer and Psa 18) – there could have been an entire Adam to Revelation saga played out within the heavens during the GAP
Something happened that introduced Choshek – As I read the Nag Hammadi – primarily John, James, Peter, and the Egyptian Gospel Not saying any of it is inspired or not – but weighted as to authorship – all these authors were close to Jesus – That weights their words for me – the Nag Hammadi was deliberately hidden to survive the Roman Edit till the generation of the ‘end-of-days’ – found in 1945 – this also weights the texts for me
These authors all say the chief archon was the result of the left hand The right hand does it directly – Christ – the Left hand is indirect – HS
WHY? The Nag Hammadi says = The Hypostasis of the Archons … it was by the will of the father of the entirety that they all came into being – after the pattern of all the things above – so that the sum of chaos might be attained.
Authoritative Teaching And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
As a 3D mortal science buff – I’ll say – The Laws of the Universe are God’s Laws (gravity, time, thermodynamics – multidimensional physics theories) are there for Rom 1:20 to be so obvious – to the serious observer.
Can God violates these Laws – He is omnipotent – He can do anything He wants BUT – IMO – His science Laws / Laws of nature uncovered by science / man are there to demonstrate His glory – Psalms 19:1 / Rom 1:20 / Dan 10:4
E=mc2 – c is the speed of light – it is not linear or constant – it is affected by gravity Look up every Law of Nature or science – all are based on a measurement of time or distance If time is a variable – so is distance - and all the Laws of nature are under who’s control – The Creator
What is the enemy of creation = entropy – on any level you measure it
How about spiritual ra ra can mean the physical dysfunction of things, like friction, entropy and decay. Gnostic – we forget who we are – We are spiritual beings from God – that will return to God – once our physical souljourn is complete
Once we remember (gnosis)– who we are – it changes our entire perspective Once you gnosis the Spirit is with you – you gnosis – you are baptized – you are awakened Gnostics says – Christ said, anyone fearing physical death is not saved – because if they gnosis what was next, they would not be afraid (is your faith that strong? If a Muslim had his sword to your neck, would you be at peace? – none of us know this answer until we are tested)
OK answers
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 4:59:26 GMT -5
Dave: "Hmmm? Where does your daily burden come from?
There are two sources of evil potential in Scripture:
1Pe 5:8 ¶ Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary (Satan) the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (KJV)
and the other source, we are born with, due to Adam's sin:-
Ro 7:14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
The carnal mind, includes Baal, the self human powers that naturally oppose GOD.
Dave: "As in Job – satan is God’s servant following God’s instructions and staying within God’s limits
When a follower follows YHWH, God's love places a stronger hedge around him, protecting him from Satan. God is in control and stronger than Satan, if followers want GOD to rule over their soul. The inherit pleasure of the soul, as you have explained.
Job 1:8 And the LORD <Y@hovah> said <'amar> unto Satan <satan>,...consider my tru follower Job: one that feareth <yare'> God <'elohiym>, and escheweth <cuwr> evil <ra`>?
Job follows GOD and thus receives God's love.
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge..etc...etc
Satan attacks GOD for protecting him. Who is in control here over Job? God is. Why is God protecting Job? Because Job asks GOD to protect him. Satan cannot attack Job, because love is stronger than wickedness.
You cannot have these opposing forces on the same side, as you claim.
Jesus says if Satan and GOD are both in the kingdom of ra, they will fight over each other...and become divided... They are separate rulers with separate kingdoms, Jesus says? Luke 15: 11-19
Satan has to get permission from GOD to let go of God's hold on Job because Job seeks tov in his life. Once a person follows one ruler of the other, the other ruler loses power over their life. This is what the friends thought, Job must have sinned, in order for Satan to attack like he did...
the word "opponent" and "court" tell you the parties are not friends, not on the same side, not a different department as you claim.
You're not reading the scene correctly.
Dave:" Was it the First Christians – Definitely NOT
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James was a first Christian, nothing here about GOD doing ra... God does not do ra, nor tempts humans with ra...
Dave: "100% Roman Catholic – and it is the only view you have represented here
So some of the Roman Catholics follow Hebrew? Why does that make the verses found in Scripture wrong?
You follow the word trinity, and that is Roman Catholic. I don't follow that meaning, because it NOT a Hebrew word. The Hebrew word for GOD is FAMILY.
Dave; "Philios – friend bond Eros – romantic love Agape – unconditional "God" love
Again you read Greek. You love Greek. I love the Hebrew.
In Hebrew there is Ahab and Ahabuh, two words for love. Not three. Eros is not found in the NT.
Dave: "you have a wicked god also creating archons – usually whenever anyone attacks a Christian about their God being wicked – a Christian would say – just – or righteous god also creating archons – answered many times – indirect – consequence – by-product – keeping with God’s Laws of Nature – entropy
You not answering my question. Your god created wickedness and does wickedness, even violating His own laws? Indirect, different department, whatever, stop making excuses... your GOD does raa as well as create ra. Makes following Him silly, why change from ra to tov if your God designed both for you, and than tests you? What sort of God is that?
My God only has tov, and love, and follows his own laws. Ra came into being when Adam sinned. Both physical ra and spiritual ra came when Adam sinned, not before. The first leaf that died from a tree, was AFTER Adam sinned. Before that all dinosaurs were vegetarians. All spiders were vegetarians. All animals were vegetarians, before Adam sinned. Nothing died until after Adam sinned.
For me, ra come from Satan, the fall angel. the opposing elohiym.
Am 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
This text is not edited by Roman Catholic, yet says the star-elohiym is a god, opposing the Most high.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 9, 2019 9:34:29 GMT -5
Your adversary = more than just one being named satan – it is multiple beings all with different specialties attacking us from a multitude of fronts – from above, below, and face to face The other source ‘yester ra’ = human nature, animal nature, survival instinct – Eve was the first to choose it over obedience mitzvah Carnal mind does not gnosis God – Carnal mind is a product of biology (Body) – intellect Carnal mind is an instinctive animal bent on survival and reproduction Survival mode = dog eat dog world – survival of the fittest – alpha male syndrome – quest for power and fame Soul – only yearn to remember the communion we had with God before conception, in the womb, and after birth NO he does not – show me a verse Satan attacks Job You're not reading the scene correctly. My verse – God does not do it directly – He has a staff for that called archon (satan and company) Show me a Jewish scholar that agrees with you. Why don’t Jews see it your way? No Jew has ever seen it your way. How can you claim it is a Hebrew religious concept? Actually – long before Greece knew how to write – the Jewish Kabbalah establishes the ‘trinity’ Trinity The Right, The Left, and The Center – Very Jewish Kabbalah. God and trinity on top - Looking down as 3 The Right – The Center – The Left Man is at the bottom looking up – experiencing God as 3 | | |
100% jewish Kabbalak - the right hand is male - the left hand is female Christians make the right hand male = Christ Christians make the left hand (female) the HS (Jews call Her - shekhinah (Wiki) - shekhinah - The shekhinah represents the feminine attributes of the presence of God, shekhinah being a feminine word in Hebrew, based especially on readings of the Talmud. OK – teach me what they mean and how they apply God’s love does not mean give me a hug and a smile and I’ll never hurt you God’s love means – you have Free Will – satan is not a creating god - Your satan is not a singular being – the only fall I am aware of is man’s – the opposing elohiym The opposing elohiym (pl – multiple beings) opposing man – not opposing God What – I do not see this at all – what a stretch – idols – of their archon god – were made by man Where does this verse say anything about opposing the Creator Choshek happen in Gen 1:2 – long before Adam (also - it was Eve the female who choose first)
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Post by Dave on Dec 9, 2019 11:01:50 GMT -5
So you define your GOD clearly for me? Simple - or – simplistic - I will give it my best shot The (First) Apocalypse of James – Nag HammadiIt is the Lord who spoke with me: "See now the completion of my redemption. I have given you a sign of these things, James, my brother. For not without reason have I called you my brother, although you are not my brother materially. And I am not ignorant concerning you; so that when I give you a sign - know and hear."
"Nothing existed except Him-who-is. He is unnameable and ineffable. I myself am also unnameable, from Him-who-is, just as I have been given a number of names - two from Him-who-is. And I, I am before you. Since you have asked concerning femaleness, femaleness existed, but femaleness was not first. And it prepared for itself powers and gods. But it did not exist when I came forth, since I am an image of Him-who-is.The Gospel of the Egyptians – Nag HammadiThe holy book of the Egyptians about the great invisible Spirit, the Father whose name cannot be uttered, he who came forth from the heights of the perfection, the light of the light of the aeons of light, the light of the silence of the providence <and> the Father of the silence, the light of the word and the truth, the light of the incorruptions, the infinite light, the radiance from the aeons of light of the unrevealable, unmarked, ageless, unproclaimable Father, the aeon of the aeons, Autogenes, self-begotten, self-producing, alien, the really true aeon.
Three powers came forth from him; they are the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son, from the living silence, what came forth from the incorruptible Father. These came forth from the silence of the unknown Father.
The <first> ogdoad, because of which the thrice-male child came forth, which is the thought, and the word, and the incorruption, and the eternal life, the will, the mind, and the foreknowledge, the androgynous Father.
The second ogdoad-power, the Mother, the virginal Barbelon, epititioch[...]ai, memeneaimen[...], who presides over the heaven, karb[...], the uninterpretable power, the ineffable Mother …
The third ogdoad-power, the Son …The Apocryphon of John - Nag HammadiThe teaching of the savior, and the revelation of the mysteries and the things hidden in silence, even these things which he taught John, his disciple.
And it happened one day, when John, the brother of James - who are the sons of Zebedee - had come up to the temple, that a Pharisee named Arimanius approached him and said to him, "Where is your master whom you followed?" And he said to him, "He has gone to the place from which he came." The Pharisee said to him, "With deception did this Nazarene deceive you (pl.), and he filled your ears with lies, and closed your hearts (and) turned you from the traditions of your fathers."
When I, John, heard these things I turned away from the temple to a desert place. And I grieved greatly in my heart, saying, "How then was the savior appointed, and why was he sent into the world by his Father, and who is his Father who sent him, and of what sort is that aeon to which we shall go? For what did he mean when he said to us, 'This aeon to which you will go is of the type of the imperishable aeon, but he did not teach us concerning the latter, of what sort it is."
Straightway, while I was contemplating these things, behold, the heavens opened and the whole creation which is below heaven shone, and the world was shaken. I was afraid, and behold I saw in the light a youth who stood by me. While I looked at him, he became like an old man. And he changed his likeness (again), becoming like a servant. There was not a plurality before me, but there was a likeness with multiple forms in the light, and the likenesses appeared through each other, and the likeness had three forms.
He said to me, "John, John, why do you doubt, or why are you afraid? You are not unfamiliar with this image, are you? - that is, do not be timid! - I am the one who is with you (pl.) always. I am the Father, I am the Mother, I am the Son. I am the undefiled and incorruptible one. Now I have come to teach you what is and what was and what will come to pass, that you may know the things which are not revealed and those which are revealed, and to teach you concerning the unwavering race of the perfect Man. Now, therefore, lift up your face, that you may receive the things that I shall teach you today, and may tell them to your fellow spirits who are from the unwavering race of the perfect Man."
And I asked to know it, and he said to me, "The Monad is a monarchy with nothing above it. It is he who exists as God and Father of everything, the invisible One who is above everything, who exists as incorruption, which is in the pure light into which no eye can look.
"He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name.
"He is immeasurable light, which is pure, holy (and) immaculate. He is ineffable, being perfect in incorruptibility. (He is) not in perfection, nor in blessedness, nor in divinity, but he is far superior. He is not corporeal nor is he incorporeal. He is neither large nor is he small. There is no way to say, 'What is his quantity?' or, 'What is his quality?', for no one can know him. He is not someone among (other) beings, rather he is far superior. Not that he is (simply) superior, but his essence does not partake in the aeons nor in time. For he who partakes in an aeon was prepared beforehand. Time was not apportioned to him, since he does not receive anything from another, for it would be received on loan. For he who precedes someone does not lack, that he may receive from him. For rather, it is the latter that looks expectantly at him in his light.
"For the perfection is majestic. He is pure, immeasurable mind. He is an aeon-giving aeon. He is life-giving life. He is a blessedness-giving blessed one. He is knowledge-giving knowledge. He is goodness-giving goodness. He is mercy and redemption-giving mercy. He is grace-giving grace, not because he possesses it, but because he gives the immeasurable, incomprehensible light.
"How am I to speak with you about him? His aeon is indestructible, at rest and existing in silence, reposing (and) being prior to everything. For he is the head of all the aeons, and it is he who gives them strength in his goodness. For we know not the ineffable things, and we do not understand what is immeasurable, except for him who came forth from him, namely (from) the Father. For it is he who told it to us alone. For it is he who looks at himself in his light which surrounds him, namely the spring of the water of life. And it is he who gives to all the aeons and in every way, (and) who gazes upon his image which he sees in the spring of the Spirit. It is he who puts his desire in his water-light which is in the spring of the pure light-water which surrounds him.
"And his thought performed a deed and she came forth, namely she who had appeared before him in the shine of his light. …
This is the first thought, his image; she became the womb of everything, for it is she who is prior to them all, the Mother-Father, the first man, the holy Spirit, the thrice-male, the thrice-powerful, the thrice-named androgynous one, and the eternal aeon among the invisible ones, and the first to come forth.Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live. God only allowed His Glory to pass before Moses Stephan only saw God’s Glory For me this = Spirit / HS God as man in the OT = Christ – God in 3D form always = Christ God as Spirit 2D omnipresent Spirit = HS Science – Psalms 19:1 Rom 1:20 The first dimension – is a singularity that contains all power and knowledge (all data) It is not locatable – 3D man cannot experience anything in 1D Man can experience 2D – as in spirit / force / gravity / non-tangible – unseen = HS = God’s Spirit Man can experience 3D – as in Christ / Jesus Christ / Melchesadek? Jos 22:22 The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, יְהֹוָה - yehôvâh - H3068 From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord. God (capital G) – אֵל - 'êl - H410 Gods (small g) - אֱלֹהִים - H430 - 'ĕlôhı̂ym -Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) The Creator = the el (singular) of the elohiym (pl) Science – Big Bang – Sacred Geometry = expansion into the omnipresent matrix / ether / medium 2nd Dimensional HS – omnipresent – the medium upon which all corporeal reality is based and sustained Good as 3D = Christ Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. If this is simultaneous event – then I can say Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the earth and the heavens. Einstein said – E=mc 21D El = 3D visible Christ + invisible 2D HS medium John 1:1-3 God = Word – the Word was with God (Spirit) and the Word was God (Christ) Gen 1:27 And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. God / Creator / El = Christ (male) and HS (female) God / Creator / El – is androgynous (no gender – or both genders) But man calls Him He as a sign of respect – not because the Creator is male Jewish Kabbalah – long predates Greece God looks down on creation as a trinity – Male right hand – el center – and Female left hand Man looks back up at God – and sees it in a trinity of form Male (Christ) / Spirit (Female) and Center el androgynous 3=1 / 1=3 God (el) is indescribable – outside our 3D ability to define Christ = a plurality of el = elohiym – the male aspect of the Creator HS = a plurality of el – elohiym – spirit / medium / ether
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Post by Dave on Dec 9, 2019 12:16:38 GMT -5
Actually – long before Greece knew how to write – the Jewish Kabbalah establishes the ‘trinity’ Trinity The Right, The Left, and The Center – Very Jewish Kabbalah. God and trinity on top - Looking down as 3 The Right – The Center – The Left Man is at the bottom looking up – experiencing God as 3 | | |
100% jewish Kabbalah - the right hand is male - the left hand is female Christians make the right hand male = Christ Christians make the left hand (female) the HS (Jews call Her - shekhinah (Wiki) - shekhinah - The shekhinah represents the feminine attributes of the presence of God, shekhinah being a feminine word in Hebrew, based especially on readings of the Talmud. Psalms 19:1 and Rom 1:20 The building blocks of corporeal matter = atoms Atoms = a trinity of Positive (protons), neutral (neutrons), and negative (electrons) Open one of this atomic particles and what does science find? - 3 quarks 2 quarks are alway in agreement - 1 of the 3 is always opposite Male Father, Male Son - and Female Spirit - this is how 3D man precieves the God head Within our 3D corporeal reality these atom building blocks arrange themselves into 7 layers of energy and complexity - we call the periodic table - each row increasing in energy level All co-existing in the exact same locality - just of different energy levels Just like our 3D reality + the 7 higher dimension / heavens = 10 Elohiym Trinity = God -the Father - The Creator - el (singular) that we precieve in a duality of form E = mc 2God (singular) created (bara for me) a duality heaven and earth, tov and ra, male and female IMO - man never experiences el - Moses couldn't - Stephan didn't But we experience God by his duality of expression Spirit = God because it is the Spirit of God Christ = God in 3D form always Jewish - The Male Right Hand of God - Center (God) - The Female Left Hand of God The Jews are correct - there is only one el - singualr - only one Creator But man at the Bottom of the Tree of Life looks up at God and sees Him in a trinity of form Male - Androgynous - Female This multi-dimansional aspect of Christian is one of the many reason I am a firm Christian - only science validates Judeo-Christianity
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Post by Dave on Dec 9, 2019 12:23:52 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2019 13:35:06 GMT -5
The Hebrew verb form 'satan' means opponent, oppose... Explain how this word means friend, a good guy?
Dave: " Eve was the first to choose it over obedience mitzvah
Rob: "You don't read my posts and learn from them? You do not understand what "prince" "sar" "archon" means? Sin did not happen until the prince of earth sinned. Than there was a change of prince. One King is removed (Adam) and another King takes His place, (Satan). There is a verse for this, but you didn't translate the word "kathestemi" into a single English word for me.
You always keep looking for Greek meanings, rather than Hebrew meaning.
Ge 42:6 And Joseph was the governor <shalliyt> over the land.
Here this cross reference verse quoted in the NT, shows the Greek word was originally "shalliyt", and what does "shalliyt" mean? Ruler, one who rules. Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were "ruled" sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be "ruled" righteous.
This is a big verse. You don't see it. A change of rulers, or princes happened during sin. When we choose Jesus, we choose Him as our King, rather than Satan as our King.
Dave: " Soul – only yearn to remember the communion we had with God before conception, in the womb, and after birth
Rob: "Holy Spirit empowers living to the dust, we become nephesh. But you making the nepesh remembering the communion we had with GOD before conception?? I don't see this? The Holy Spirit is a part of GOD, the dust is not. Once we are living, the Holy Spirit asks us to connect more fully to GOD. If we listen we connect more. If we don't listen we connect less. There is nothing eternal about the soul? Jews mix Hebrew terms, I watched the video... don't agree the soul, never dies. Once the Holy Spirit leaves the dust, in relationship, the dust goes to dust, the Holy Spirit returns to GOD, and that very day the soul is nothing.
Dave: " NO he does not – show me a verse Satan attacks Job You're not reading the scene correctly.
Rob: "
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Satan is king of earth, hence walks up and down his kingdom. Jesus created Adam as king of earth, but He lost his crown, when He sinned. Adam repented and returned to following Jesus once again, Jesus promised Adam He would become the human King of earth, and get the crown back from Satan.
In the mean time GOD saves some from Satan's world, and once they are saved, they become more and more protected by GOD.
Job 1:8 And Jesus-YHWH said to Satan-opposing-elohiym, have you considered my servant Job, who avoids all RA?
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Attack (1)... Your love and love reponse is selfish... conditional love... Job loves because He gets love... what would happen if Job loves and got hate instead, would he love?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him,
Attack (2) ... You protect Him from Me. The word "satan-noun" tells you one Being is opposed to the other Being... yet you make out the Hebrew word has a different meaning, one as a friend...a good guy... this violates the meaning of the Hebrew word....
Dave: " My verse – James 1:13- God does not do it directly – He has a staff for that called archon (satan and company)
Rob: "Since when is this verse about your cause? God does not tempt anyone with RA. That's all the verse says... How about using the line upon line principle, as Scripture says to read Scripture?
Dave: " Show me a Jewish scholar that agrees with you. Why don’t Jews see it your way? No Jew has ever seen it your way. How can you claim it is a Hebrew religious concept?
Rob: "How many Jews followed Satan after Jesus-YHWH saved them from Egypt? Nearly all of them. All stiff necks. The ones meek enough, humble enough to see GOD, would not be leaders, so you don't know what they supported or not. Jesus was a Jew and He understood where the opponent came from? Why arn't you listenng to Jesus comments on Satan, the father of all lies? Remember Jesus was a Jew, I listen to this Jew above all others... His understanding was different than the other Jews...
How can you claim it is a Hebrew religious concept? Because Jesus a Jew read the Hebrew differently than the other Jews in His day. What does Jesus, the Jew, say about Satan?
Dave: " Actually – long before Greece knew how to write – the Jewish Kabbalah establishes the ‘trinity’
Rob: "Exactly, you follow Jewish Kabbalah. I don't. I follow Hebrew. Hebrew says in Ephesians 3:15,16, ELohiiym is FAMILY.
Dave: " In Hebrew there is Ahab and Ahabuh, two words for love.
OK – teach me what they mean and how they apply
Rob: "I gave you links, spiritualsprings.org/ss-845.htm But you don't read our studies.
You posted Greek concepts of love. I study Hebrew cocepts of love. We are different.
Dave: " the only fall I am aware of is man’s – the opposing elohiym
Rob: " Am 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
"star-elohiym"
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Again I showed you before. Follow the line upon line principle, How Scripture says to read Scripture.
Star is a simile of ben-elohiym...
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, "O bright star", son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Notice this star wants to be like the Most High Father... Didn't Jesus, the Jew say this also?
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, Joh 8:46 ¶ Which of you convinceth me of sin?
Jesus, the Jew saw Hebrew different from Jews. There are two fathers in heaven, for relationships. One causes you to sin. The other doesn't.
Dave: " What – I do not see this at all – what a stretch – idols – of their archon god – were made by man Where does this verse say anything about opposing the Creator
Rob: "Again you don't follow how Scipture says to read Scripture, line upon line, look up all the themes and cross reference the Hebrew words.
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Ro 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Mankind worship creatures, rather than Creator. As for Molech, read the Book called The two Babylons.
Is there a Creature wanting to set himself about the Creator, claiming to be Creator? Why you call him a creator god all the time, whereas I don't.
================================= Now to your other theme, defining GOD ==================================
Dave:"Three powers came forth from him; they are the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son, from the living silence,
Rob" I don't like the idea, three powers came forth from Him. This is a trinity doctrine, not Hebrew. Hebrew does not say. Where did this uncaused family come from? It didn't.
Dave: "I am the one who is with you (pl.) always. I am the Father, I am the Mother, I am the Son.
Rob" Nice...
Dave: " the thrice-named androgynous one,
Rob" In a family the head of the family expresses maleness-love... not this concept you claim
Dave: " God (capital G) – אֵל - 'êl - H410 Gods (small g) - אֱלֹהִים - H430 - 'ĕlôhı̂ym -Plural of H433
Rob" Have you not studied Hebrew? Where is your own assessment of words?
"el" means "Strong authority" - not necessarily about GOD at all
"eloah" means "father strong authority" in some contexts refers to "Heavenly Father Strong Authority" in other contexts the "father god of pagan family deities".
"elohiiym" means "family power" every context, has same meaning, unlike Gordan's pick and choose method.
Both OT and NT, "family power". Another term is "family strong authority" , not family strong authorities...
but one family, the head is the Father. The biological head of humans redeemed is Jesus, also our Creator before humans sinned.
Dave: "Jewish Kabbalah – long predates Greece God looks down on creation as a trinity
No... God looks down on the Family Kinds... each male and female with offspring... this alligns with personalities of loving... not sexual forms of kinds, a minor function, but how love is seen in kinds.
We see our GOD very differently... Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 12, 2019 9:34:52 GMT -5
Book of Zecharia,3:1-7 Joshua the high priest facing the angel of the Lord, with Satan at the angel's side accusing Joshua. Jewish court – Joshua faces the JUDGE and the DA (who is at the Judges right side) Who is the DA accusing? The Judge? God? – Is the DA opposing the Judge? NO! – The DA was accusing Joshua (Joshua’s opponent) Even tho Joshua clothes were dirty – (dirty earthly clothes = stained with sin) Joshua received salvation from the Lord (Christ) = clean heavenly clothes In my world – the Justice system, the Judge, and the DA are all on the same side Man is the defendant – accused of sinning during the Contest In your world the DA is opposing the Justice system and the judge - So – Adam was the sar (archon) of earth Eve was tempted by a serpent – that did not exist yet in your world Then she gave some to Adam the sar (archon) of earth – Is this is when your Ezk 28 happened – and now RA is created? Maybe your Ezk 28 is all your sar (archon) Adam – he is the satan? TOV and RA are always there for man – it is our choice between the two that matters (mitzvah or chata) Where did the breath of life come from? You say is was created at conception – as if it was biological This is why you think you have to learn God from a book – because it is all new information to you I say – Jews say – we pre-existed in heaven in full awareness – then God breathes us into our Mind-Body at conception – God is not new information for us – we were once in full awareness (bright natures) – but because of Mind-Body we forget –We already gnosis from birth – therefore we have no excuse God told satan to attack Job – satan did not oppose God – he obeyed God Satan opposed to Job (man) Two fathers in heaven! – yet you claim you do not elevate your satan god Sorry – only One Creator – Only One Father Does it matter if you like it? el is singular elohiym. SINGULAR – as on ONE – as in Father the Creator ONE - Singularwww.myjewishlearning.com/article/satan-the-adversary/Satan in Kabbalah and HasidismThe Jewish mystical tradition has much to say about Satan. Indeed, kabbalistic texts offer a rich description not merely of Satan, but of an entire realm of evil populated by demons and spirits that exists in parallel to the realm of the holy. Satan is known in Kabbalah as Sama’el (rendered in some sources as the Great Demon), and the demonic realm generally as the Sitra Achra … a belief that clearly echoes the Christian view of a final showdown between God and Satan at the End of Days.Jewish vs. Christian Conceptions of SatanOn the whole, Satan occupies a far more prominent place in Christian theology than in traditional rabbinic sources. The Book of Revelation, in the New Testament, references an “ancient serpent” — commonly understood as the snake that tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden — “who is the Devil and Satan.” It describes a reg dragon with seven heads and 10 horns that stands opposite a pregnant woman about to give birth in order to devour the childI do not have any issues with anything listed form this Jewish web-site Gnostic view – This is my definition of the elohiym – all the heavenly host You can call this a family if you want At the top – el the indescribable - singular El – expressing Himself through the duality of male Christ and female HS John 1:1-4, Col 1:16 Multiple layers of heavily elohiym – some close to the right hand – Christ Those on the Left Hand (HS) = Powers and Principalities Powers = ruling archon – sar of Persia, Lilith, Baal, Allah Principalities those archon closest to man – multiple forms – spirit, man, and demon Your view as presented Elohiym = family, Male Father, Male Christ, and Male Adam – your HS has no gender and does nothing Female Eve didn’t sin first – the sin didn’t count until she gave it to Male Adam (the sar of earth) Then one angel who was created to serve and praise – decided to become a god Like a fish decided to become a man – change species – change job assignments – over-riding the Creator making the Creator weak and not in control This one angel – now called satan – is the only satan because he is an individual person (being) Everywhere you look and there is RA – your satan creator god made it If your satan is only anti-God – on an opposing side against God Why not fight God – why even bother with man? You forget the hierarchy evilThe Kabbalah has - Satan is known in Kabbalah as Sama’el (rendered in some sources as the Great Demon), and the demonic realm generally as the Sitra Achra Samael the Great Demon + demons In the New Testament, there is the ‘reg dragon with seven heads and 10 horns’ and the Devil, who is Satan Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; Who are these multiple players of evil? One angel named Satan?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2019 13:27:26 GMT -5
Book of Zecharia,3:1-7 Joshua the high priest facing the angel of the Lord, with Satan at the angel's side accusing Joshua.
Jewish court – Joshua faces the JUDGE and the DA (who is at the Judges right side) Who is the DA accusing? The Judge? God? – Is the DA opposing the Judge? NO! – The DA was accusing Joshua (Joshua’s opponent)
There are many major court room judgements in heaven. The DA opposes Joshua, the Hebrew words for Jesus, in a human man form. Jesus is collecting jury members for the great heavenly court against the DA, Satan. Satan is opposing the collecting of every jury member, because He knows this jury will oppose Him, at the great judgement, over Satan, and the ending of His existence.
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Attack (1)... God told satan to attack Job – satan did not oppose God – he obeyed God
You did NOT respond to the text I showed you... do you agree?
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Attack (1)...
Is this speaking of Satan, an attack? Yes or no?
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand.
This response of GOD is after the Satanic (two) attacks on GOD.
"all that he hath is in thy power"
This is NOT saying what your saying "God told satan to attack Job"
What condition is this? "all that he hath is in thy power"
It is the beginning condition when wicked people first come to Jesus to be protected from Satan by God's love.
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, Attack (2) ... You protect Him from Me. The word "satan-noun" tells you one Being is opposed to the other Being...
Satan opposed to Job (man)
Again, you DON"T answer the question: Is this passage an attack? yes or no?
Instead you change the topic...
How can you debate somebody, if you change the topic? It's not even a debate. You are not responding to the evidence... you change the topic.
Instead you say "satan" is a Hebrew word meaning "only referencing man"
The word "ha-satan" is an opponent, opposing man? In the Baalim example the "opposing angel" is GOD attacking Baalim, normally a wicked prophet, compelled to listen to GOD for a change, rather than Satan.
In the only other example of "ha-satan" it is Satan, the evil ra Being, opposing YWHW over the journeys of salvation in man. This is how Job is presented.
But this is a different topic?? Jesus, the Jew saw Hebrew different from Jews. There are two fathers in heaven, for relationships. One causes you to sin. The other doesn't.
Two fathers in heaven! – yet you claim you do not elevate your satan god Sorry – only One Creator – Only One Father
You mis-quote my statement, there are two fathers in heaven for relationship.
All relationships are created by GOD... remember the shadow experiments I showed you?
Satan doesn't create anything.
Not talking about the Father of Creation... again your changing topics... I am talking about the father of relationships.
Jesus, a Jew said Satan is the father of ra. God is the father of tov.
The word "ab" means "provider of" not "creator of". Satan provides a source of forces telling humans to walk away from GOD. The Holy Spirit provides a source of forces telling humans to walk closer to GOD.
Your view as presented Elohiym = family, Male Father, Male Christ, and Male Adam – your HS has no gender and does nothing Female Eve didn’t sin first – the sin didn’t count until she gave it to Male Adam (the sar of earth)
For starters elohiym is not of matter, and studies of scripture do NOT show GOD is gender male or gender female.
Elohiym = family, personality expressing maleness-love Father, personality expressing femaleness-love Shadday (Holy Spirit), personality expressing and collecting parental love, and showing child like love, Jesus.
On earth, personality expressing maleness-love Adam, also with gender genes to procreate switched on, personality expressing femaleness-love Eve, also with gender genes to procreate switched on.
When Eve sinned, she fell into missing, but the kingdom of earth did not fall, because the sar of earth, Adam, did not fall (yet).
This one angel – now called satan – is the only satan because he is an individual person (being) Everywhere you look and there is RA – your satan creator god made it
The Hebrew word satan has verb and noun forms, the verb implies incomplete actions, the noun complete actions in ONE Being, as you say.
Everywhere you look and there is RA – your satan creator god made it
No Ra is created by GOD, including RA relationships, to define darkness you require light... You don't understand how shadows are made....
Again I am talking about relationships to GOD... in the shadow experiments this affect is called the distance from the light source. The RA is defined by light, but the light does NOT do the Ra. The RA affect is caused by you, at a certain distance of relationship from the light source.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htm spiritualsprings.org/ss-1026.htm
These two links help explain shadows, symbols of ra.
Those on the Left Hand (HS) = Powers and Principalities Powers = ruling archon – sar of Persia, Lilith, Baal, Allah
You elevate Satan and archon to within the trinity...wow !!!!
I don't do this...not even close... fancy placing creatures within the powers of the divine....
Elohiym is family, cannot include creatures... wow, what a mistake. What has archon, a creature created by Creator, got to do with the divine? Nothing... yet it is inside your trinity?
My view has only divine members inside the elohiym. Divine family.
Then one angel who was created to serve and praise – decided to become a god Like a fish decided to become a man – change species
Again your changing topics.... what is a relationship ? It has two directions? walk towards God (tov) or walk away from God (ra).
Since when does relationship become like a fish changing to a man?
I would look at the experiments on shadows, before you comment.
If your satan is only anti-God – on an opposing side against God Why not fight God – why even bother with man?
Why fight GOD? Who fights GOD? I don't. God needs man to be a witness. Jury members. Heavenly court. Father is on treason trial voiced by Satan. The big court judgement, hasn't happened yet. GOD is still collecting jury members, who must be, law abiding citizens, having never seen the crime before them, and able to give unbiased opinion.
You forget the hierarchy evil these multiple players of evil? One angel named Satan?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
A leader has an army, and makes war in heaven, long before mankind was created. Scripture really does say this.
However Jews don't read the NT so miss out on the latter rain torah. Unless some become Messianic Jews? Does this mean Messianic Jews change their reading of Hebrew from traditional Jews?
This is my definition of the elohiym – all the heavenly host You can call this a family if you want
No its a slang use of family... not Scripture either... where is this definition in Scripture? its not.
Creatures can become adopted into the family of the divine, but this does not make them the same as the divine...
This explains why the closest cherub got jealous over Jesus, who is of the family divine, the cherub was not, so the family meetings of GOD excluded angels...
Only divine decide on creation, not divine and creatures... your model of trinity is totally weird and wrong.
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Post by Dave on Dec 13, 2019 6:13:11 GMT -5
You did NOT respond to the text I showed you... do you agree? Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. [/p] Satan is king of earth, hence walks up and down his kingdom.color="#1979e6"]
[/quote] So – what your saying is – if I travel around Australia – I become the master of Australia? You have no concept of the heavenly realm – all you see is one dimensional earth and man Are you saying there are ZERO angels on earth except your angel satan? What is angel Gabriel comes to Mary – Gabriel in on the Earth – Gabriel must be the master of earth Is Gabriel your satan? In Egypt you told me that the shaddy was the angel of death – The shaddy is the destroyer – satan Is this speaking of Satan, an attack? Yes or no? Job 1:8 And Jesus-YHWH said to Satan-opposing-elohiym, have you considered my servant Job, who avoids all RA?[/p] Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Attack (1)...
[/quote] So God asked satan a question and satan answered God with another question Is this an attack? – Have you been attacking me? No – I do not see a conversation between two being and attack by either one Satan opposed to Job (man)Is is not an attack upon GodOne of the most refreshing things about a Jewish lesson - is its openness. Some say this - some say something else - but most of us accept. Put a Christian Priest, a Baptist Minister, and a Presbyterian Pastor in the same room and it is an argument over who is more right. Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/409/judaism-job#ixzz67z6paNA9
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