Bible Infalibility vrs Textual Criticism

[Dave]

Jul 7, 2024 11:47:14 GMT -5 Dave said:

A believer’s response to textual criticism

Many people – scholars included – criticize The Bible – because of its many errors
Therefore they doubt the Bible because of it many errors
In Fact – sometimes too much information is too much for some to comprehend

Biblical Scholarship and Faith - link.bibleodyssey.com › Galleries
Some biblical scholars have left the faith after discovering historical problems in the Bible. For example, Bart Ehrman, a former fundamentalist who believed the Bible was the word of God without error, began to doubt his views as a graduate student. He found contradictions in the Bible and struggled with the problem of suffering, which led him to lose confidence in his faith.

The Problem is the legacy of Christendom’s infallibility tradition
People who are too extreme in their religious mythos – once awaken to reality – are not prepared for that reality

The problem – which texts are to be considered – how many are to be considered?
The King James translators only used one source – the received text
The King James has 16 ‘Bastered Verses’ – these are verses never in any other ancient text

Modern translation include up to 250 different – and sometimes older – texts to compile a more composite modern translation – so naturally it also contains many more textual differences
These differences are listed in most Study Bibles as marginal readings
If you check – you will see that there are three complete different endings for the Gospel of Mark

And just how ‘nit-picky’ is the difference? – complete sentences - change of words – spelling – omissions – inclusions – punctuations – breathing marks – spacing – arrangements

In the extreme –https://biblequestions.info › ... › Textual Variant
523,000 textual differences exist in over 2500 verses

To date there are 3 main sources for the Hebrew bible
The Aleppo Codex – A.K.A. The Masoretic Text of the 7th century AD - is not complete
The Westminster Leningrad Codex (WLC) of 1010 AD Russia – is the oldest complete copy
The Dead Sea Scrolls – is the oldest copy discovered – it is also incomplete - in fact the Hebrew text of the Dead Sea Scrolls more closely resemble the Greek Septuagint of 250 BC

What about corruptions – additions – omissions – ‘textual variations’ – do they matter?

A Believer’s Response
Gnostic Valentinus said – there are three types of Christians
1- the lost – pretenders
2- the Believer – saved by faith and conviction
3- the Spiritual – Experiential - Born Again – Baptism of the Holy Spirit – First Fruits

I admit my bias – as a believer I have much more evidence than just scripture to validate scripture
I see God’s Hands in the science of our reality – in the very Nature of reality
I see God’s Hand in the history of humanity – even in the current events of our modern age
Almost as if our world leaders use scripture as a their guide

David Ike – ‘ Just outside our field of vision are entities that are anything but human – and they have been manipulating our world from the outside for eons … Some people call them demonic – some call them the SERPENT RACE – Islam calls them the Jinn’
King Solomon called them the shedim of the Old Testament – Hebrew demons and other gods
King Solomon also verified they are the ‘sons of gods’ (bane elohiym) of Gen 6:1-4
New Testament Greek calls them ARCHON

This is the SERPENT RACE – Gen 3 / Gen 6 / Rev 12 – the BEAST of Revelation and his seed / offspring
They have always co-existed with man from the very beginning –
The SERPENT was in the Garden with Adam and Eve
Christendom has forgotten – before Abram was called from Ur – the known world was firmly in the grips of alien space gods – ancient astronauts - complete with genetic manipulations – demi-gods and chimeric hybrids – posing / impersonating gods – false gods – impressing ancient man with the magic of technology and knowledge from the stars

I see God’s Hand in reality – no matter when and where I look – or even on the scale I look

Scripture – prophesy or reality
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. In unrighteousness they suppress the truth,
Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—
Rom 1:21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. Instead, their thinking became futile, and their senseless hearts were made dark.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools.
Rom 1:23 They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image in the form of mortal man and birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the evil desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies with one another.
Rom 1:25 They traded the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to shameful passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for what is against nature.
Rom 1:27 Likewise the men abandoned natural relations with women and were burning with passion toward one another—men committing shameful acts with other men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to recognize God, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what is not fitting.
Rom 1:29 They became filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents.
Rom 1:31 They are foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God’s righteous decree—that those who practice such things deserve death—they not only do them but also approve of others who practice the same.

Post WWII -
America has been the standard in education
America has been the primary promotor of Godless evolution

Today
America is the exporter of personal liberation and gay rights
America is the primary promotor of LYGBT+ Antifa – rebellious – mobs that disrupt society
Gays for Islamic Palestine is the height of ignorance

How can anyone deny the Hand of God – the validating of scripture = our reality
I admit my bias – as a believer I have much more evidence than just scripture to validate scripture

Even as I turn on the nightly news – I am just turning into the Old Testament 1st Book of Samuel
The Philistines (from the GAZA STRIP and their god Beelzebub) are well known from the Old Testament for their frequent wars with the Israelites.

To the question of Textual Criticism
If you believe in a Creator that created everything seen and unseen – who gave man His Testament – His Word – then it says exactly what God allows it to say.
Is there an element of ambiguity involved - YES

Why is ambiguity involved in a message so important to humanity
Answer – to force each of us to our knees for guidance – to seek that promised Comforter

Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Act 1:4 And being assembled together with them, he commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, 'Ye did hear of me;
Act 1:5 because John, indeed, baptized with water, and ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit—after not many days.'

Revelations – ideas from nowhere – inventions that change our world – ideas that change our world
Revelations – personal gifts – one on one – on the small scale

Scripture as our guide
Isa 28:9 To whom will He teach knowledge? To whom will He explain the message? Those just weaned from milk? Those just taken from the breast?
Isa 28:10 For it must be ‘precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.’
Isa 28:11 For through stammering lips and a foreign tongue He will speak to this people,
Isa 28:12 To whom He said, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary, here is repose”—but they would not listen.
Isa 28:13 So the word of Adonai is to them ‘precept on precept, precept on precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.’

Forget the textual variations – even at their worst
The major message of scripture – is told to man over and over and over and over – told in story after story – told in parable after parable – told Book after Book

The major message of scripture = the TRUTH of God and our multi-dimensional quantum holographic reality and our true place in it

Then there is the question of which text to consider
66 books in Protestant Bibles and 73 books in Catholic Bibles
There are 22 books removed from the Bible - www.christianity.com › Life › Bible
There are 21 Books Mentioned in the Bible That Are Likely Lost - revtrev.com › Live LIGHT
The definition of Apocrypha varies, with some sources listing 14 books, while others list 54 - www.ligonier.org
The orthodox Coptic Church has 81 books in their broader canon – including the books of Jubilees and Enoch - The Ethiopian Tewahedo Bible - philarchive.org › archive › KAMFRB

The Jews – even at the time of Jesus Christ – never had a one Book Bible – they had a Temple Library
Yes – all the known books of what we call the Old Testament were there + the “Wisdoms of their Fathers”
Even the Dead Sea Scrolls were a collection of a large library that also contained what we consider scripture – but it also contained several Books / manuscripts considered Gnostic – the War Scroll – the Book of Enoch – the Book of Giants
The Nag Hammadi is a complete Library of 31 titles – only 11 are attributed to James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas and/or are consistent with their words

The Book of Enoch is quote 64 times with the New Testament – second only to Isaiah at 68 times
Is Enoch a valuable text – or complete nonsense?
Is the Nag Hammadi valuable text – what of the Dead Sea Scrolls – King Solomon?

Using our Gnostic guides of prayer for enlightenment and the concept of precept upon precept, line upon line CONSISTANCY – 1Th 5:21 but test all things, hold fast to what is good,

1Th 5:15 See that no one repays evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good for one another and for all.
1Th 5:16 Rejoice always,
1Th 5:17 pray constantly,
1Th 5:18 in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Messiah Yeshua.
1Th 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit,
1Th 5:20 do not despise prophetic messages,

It does not matter if we are discussing ancient astronauts – ancient Hindu gods - pagan religions – modern UFO phenomena – demons – or angels – it all speaks to the same reality

[Dillon]

Jul 7, 2024 11:52:12 GMT -5 Dave said:

A believer’s response to textual criticism

Many people – scholars included – criticize The Bible – because of its many errors
Therefore they doubt the Bible because of it many errors
In Fact – sometimes too much information is too much for some to comprehend

Biblical Scholarship and Faith - link.bibleodyssey.com › Galleries
Some biblical scholars have left the faith after discovering historical problems in the Bible. For example, Bart Ehrman, a former fundamentalist who believed the Bible was the word of God without error, began to doubt his views as a graduate student. He found contradictions in the Bible and struggled with the problem of suffering, which led him to lose confidence in his faith.

The Problem is the legacy of Christendom’s infallibility tradition
People who are too extreme in their religious mythos – once awaken to reality – are not prepared for that reality

I looked at Bart Ehrman’s website. A lot of it is over my head, but it is obvious he is a non-believer and his bias prevents him from seeing the obvious.

Did Jesus Appear to 500 People After His Resurrection?
ehrmanblog.org/did-jesus-appear-to-500-people-after-his-resurrection/
December 20, 2022

To me, in this article his argument is childishly stupid.

My example, a Roman Centurion was called a Centurion because he commanded a unit of around 100 soldiers. The soldiers were divided up into four groups of 20. So, 100 most typically meant about 80 soldiers. However, these soldiers also had many different freelance support personnel; civilians to tend the horses and polish the brass. Roman armies marched with wives and families of children. Roman armies were followed by 1000s of civilians hoping to earn a dollar or pick up the spoils after a battle.

(1) Jesus appeared to the Twelve, but Judas was already dead. So this is an error.
I spoke to congress, but every congressman was not there.
I spoke to the class, but every student was not there.
Jesus appeared to the Twelve, could just mean he appeared to the disciples in a group.

(2) Jesus appeared to the 500, but we don’t know who they are.
A new reporter says 500 attended a meeting, does these mean 500 exactly or 500 +/- 50?
Would anyone condemn that reporter if there were only 499 people there, or 502?

He includes the Catholic tradition that Jesus appeared to 1000. Suggesting this meant 500 men plus their 500 wives to make 1000.
The last time I attended a Christian church there were 65 people in attendance. Four were sleeping. Six were day dreaming of something else. 10 were doing business in their heads. 4 were children playing in the back room, and the 3 mothers of those children were to busy to pay attention.

We don’t know who they are.
Yes we do. They are the luckiest people in the world. They are the first Christians. Race, color, creed, or nationality means nothing.

(3) Jesus appeared to the 500, why did Paul include that some of them are now dead?
Bart Ehrman is trying to make a false or factious witness claim. It is like saying, I saw something and two other people witnessed it also, but they are gone / lost in the crowd. Now unavailable to collaborate your story.

What if some were put to death for what they saw?
What if some were sick and dying and now that they are saved, let go and joined the Lord?
What if some were set upon by bandits and instead of defending themselves they gave their lives to save others?

Non-believer Bart Ehrman can play what if it is not true games, if he wants. Bend the words to justify your own belief if you can.

Jacob gave up 14 years of his life on a verbal promise. Our forefathers made large business deals on a hand shake. Today, that hand shake has become pages and pages of legal contracts because of people like Bart Ehrman, who do their best to confuse an issue.

[Dave]

Dillon - Non-believer Bart Ehrman can play what if it is not true games, if he wants. Bend the words to justify your own belief if you can.

The power of belief

I see that Robert has checked in – so I’ll just use him as an example
He is a Catholic satan believer – he promotes his satan as the god of evil who is single handedly responsible for all the hardship in the world.

So – as he reads scripture he reads his satan into it
Even when you point out to him what the verse really says – he refuses to see the obvious and just cling to the traditions of his religion.

He would never be an honest translator – because he already knows what he wants the verse to say – then plays word games to validate – what he already wants it to say.

He is not that unusual – many in the past read things into scripture that were just not there.
285 times the end of the world has been predicted 1834 with the Millerites and in 2011 with Rev Harold Camp
The Jehovah's Witness were wrong 3 different times 1914, 1918, 1925
Robert is a product of a religious cult built around one individual – where her views of what it says - outweight or superceed scripture

Jesus said
Luk 19:26 ‘I tell you, to everyone who has, more shall be given. But from the one who doesn’t have, even what he does have shall be taken away.

Think this verse has ever been used to justify the wealth of the church?

Luk 19:27 But those hostile to me, who didn’t want me to reign over them, bring them here and execute them before me.’”

Does this spell a CRUSAIDE? – how about an INQUISITION?
In American history this translated into – the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Just to make sure they have no more pagan babies

This is the legacy of organized Christendom – lead by men in committee
Manipulated by powerful men in collusion with governments to manipulate the people
This does not represent the call for truth or the adherence to the Gospel message