The Valentinians: Ancient Christian Gnostics?

[Dave]

The Valentinians: Ancient Christian Gnostics?

Opens with the “Flavia Sophe Inscription” the oldest known Christian inscription = Valintinian (Gnostic) Christian

1:30 – the spiritual realms are crowed – many life forms

1:50 – Valentinian Christians were especially hated by the Catholic church fathers – Iranious and Justin Martyr

2:00 – They were not Gnostic – or Valentinians –
they were just Christians
5:00 – The names Gnostic and Valentinians were invented by those who considered them outsiders and didn’t like them very much
5:20 – the term Gnosticism is a modern term – invented by modern church authority to describe something they reject

6:50 – REPEAT – Valentinian Christians were NOT / never Gnostic – they were Christians worshiping along side other early Christians
7:00 – they were just one of the many varieties of early Christians

7:10 – what about their teaching that was so troubling to Roman Catholicism

1- Angels helped with creation
8:50 – This is not new or Gnostic in origin – it is Jewish Kabbalah

Gen 1:1  In the beginning God created the heavens
This was a spiritual age – all the host of heaven are created

Gen 1:1  … then God created the earth.
As physical creation took shape – God already had a ‘host’ army of angels / messengers

Enoch – tells of different angels being assigned different duties within creation. Some tend the stars. Some tend the orbits of the cosmos. Some tend store houses of rain and snow. Some act as Jailers.

The Point = Did God do each little thing himself – or did God delegate tasks?

Gen 1:26  Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image,

Us – someone is helping someone

My analogy – Queen Victoria built a new children’s hospital
Did she get her hands dirty – NO! - She delegated

My discussion – maybe – maybe not – doesn’t matter
Enoch suggests our reality is much larger than man can see
All scripture speaks to an invisible realm all around us
AND – this invisible reality is filled with life forms
No one on this side of the vail understands how and what happened within the spiritual

2- 9:25 – a seed of a higher essence is given to man

Gen 2:7  Then Adonai Elohim formed the man out of the dust from the ground and He breathed into his nostrils a breath of life—so the man became a living being. 
From God (from a well of souls) we came – to souljourn here – and to God we will return

YES – man is spirit – that spirit is trapped within your biology – upon mortal death that spirit is poured out / released / let go to return to God

3- ogdoas.wordpress.com/2012/09/17/on-the-gnostic-trinity/
“Valentinus was the first to devise the notion of three subsistent entities in a work that he entitled On the Three Natures. For he devised the notion of three subsistent entities and three persons—father, son and holy spirit.” (B. Layton, Gnostic Scriptures, pg. 232)

YES – Valentinian – is the author of the TRINITY
Father – Son – and Holy Spirit

Valentinian also said there are three types of Christians
1- the lost – pretenders and disbelievers
2- believers – the psychic – mind based belief – Baptism of John
3- The spiritual – Born Again – Baptism of the Holy Spirit

YES – the original Christians were all Pentecostal Messianic Jews

Act 19:1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples: 
Act 19:2  and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given. 
Act 19:3  And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John's baptism. 
Act 19:4  And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after him, that is, on Jesus. 
Act 19:5  And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 
Act 19:6  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 
Act 19:7  And they were in all about twelve men.

YES – the original Christians were all Pentecostal Messianic Jews

What about their teaching that was so troubling to Roman Catholicism

The spiritual – Born Again – Baptism of the Holy Spirit – filled with the Spirit – praying in the Spirit – Communion in the Spirit – lead by the Spirit
ABSOLUTELY ZERO NEED FOR A PRIEST OR A CHURCH

10:30 – The Father is singular – while being many

We live in a 10 dimensional reality – and at the base of it all = the 1st D – a singularity with all knowledge and power – it cannot be located or measured

while being many
Multi-dimensional beings

Eze 1:5  And out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man; 
Eze 1:6  and every one had four faces, and every one of them had four wings. 

3 dimensional creature = one face
This is just a higher dimensional being = multiple faces – because it exist in a higher dimension – or multiple higher dimensions

10:44 – Pleroma – Greek for (everything) within the boat – (every man) within an army – (all the wealth) of a Kingdom – (all the HOST) of heaven

10:55 – Creation is divided into a multitude of eons



a multitude of eons – the word = aion – meaning a period of time

Dave – these are not angels or worlds or even beings – look at their names – Truth – Life – Word – and Wisdom

This is not unlike Jewish Kabbalah



Why does the Gnostic version look so much more complicated?

Dave’s answer
1- a lot of these text exist only in this library – no other surviving copies to cross reference and auto correct poor translations

Dec 2, 2019 13:25:20 GMT -5 Dave said:

From the INTRODUCTION of my copy
The Nag Hammadi Library is a collection of religious texts that vary widely from each other as to when, where, and by whom they were written. Even the points of view diverge to such an extent that the text are not to be thought of as coming from one group or movement. Yet these diversified materials must have had something in common that caused them to be chosen by those who collected them. … one of them, The Gospel of Thomas, begins with a word to the wise: “Whoever finds the interpretation of these sayings will not experience death.” Thus the texts can be read at two levels: what the original author may have intended to communicate and what the texts may subsequently have been taken to communicate.

Dave’s answer #1 – Thanks to the Roman Edit – all we have is what we have

Dave’s answer # 2 – The Nag Hammadi is a Library

From the INTRODUCTION of my copy
the text are not to be thought of as coming from one group or movement. ... diversified

Those who collected this library were Christians, and many of the essays were originally composed by
Cristian authors. 

This Library contains 33 books
11 of which are attributed to James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas – or are consistent in message
These Books have been my interest

Judaism weighs scripture by author – who is more credible / important – God – Moses – major prophets – Minor prophets + the wisdom of their fathers – King Solomon – Enoch – others –

Dead Sea Scrolls included its library - the War Scroll – the Book of Creation – The Book of Giants – etc

This Library contains 33 books
11 of which are attributed to James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas

This library also contains the writings of Plato
This library also contains text related to Zoroasterism
This library also contains text related to Valentinian
This library also contains text related to the Sethians

Dave’s answer # 2 – The Nag Hammadi is a Library
If the entire library is classified Gnostic the composite of multiple views – then the composite views become complicated

Dave’s answer #3 – Many of the different (things – beings) is the result of vocabulary

Within Judeo-Christendom YWHY = God = Jehovah = Lord
Everyone understands these are not 4 different gods

Within Gnosticism criticism – Sophia – Pitst – the Goddess of Wisdom – or even Barbelo become multiple beings

Demiurge – what he represents = ancient Gnosticism
Correct – in ancient Gnosticism the Demiurge becomes the creator YHWY- especially to the Sethians (11:38)

Torah and The Gospels are the Gold texts
Demiurge – ancient definition – artisan – craftsman
Doesn’t the Creator qualify for the title?
Why must it be a different being?
God created – Christ created – the Holy Spirit is the Womb of creation
Which one does not qualify for the title – artisan or craftsman?

Angels helped with creation
8:50 – This is not new or Gnostic in origin – it is Jewish Kabbalah

My analogy – Queen Victoria built a new children’s hospital
Did she get her hands dirty – NO! - She delegated

My discussion – maybe – maybe not – doesn’t matter
Enoch suggests our reality is much larger than man can see
All scripture speaks to an invisible realm all around us
AND – this invisible reality is filled with life forms
Did God do each little thing himself – or did God delegate tasks?
My answer – does not matter either way – same creation same Creator

12:55 – the Law was not given by the supreme God but the Demiurge Creator God

Torah and The Gospels are the Gold texts
There is only one Creator – YES – He is an artisan and craftsman (Demiurge)

13:30 – Sophia falls and needs saving
Torah and The Gospels are the Gold texts

Rev 12:1  And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars; 
Rev 12:2  and she was with child; and she crieth out, travailing in birth, and in pain to be delivered. 
Rev 12:3  And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his heads seven diadems. 
Rev 12:4  And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon standeth before the woman that is about to be delivered, that when she is delivered he may devour her child. 
Rev 12:5  And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne. 
Rev 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 

The story is not over – this is not a fall - there is a pause of ‘a thousand two hundred and threescore days.’

Gen 1:3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 
Gen 1:4  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 
Gen 1:5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

The story is not over – this is not a fall just a seperation - just move onto the next Day

14:05 – Gospel of Truth – a being called error that comes between man and God – to keep man ignorant from God

Gen 1:2  And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep:

Darkness = ignorance of the truth

14:16 – Christ came into the world to promote the Father

14:30 – man can become enlightened through Christ and emerge from the darkness of ignorance

15:30 – So In Valentinian’s world – there is a very active spirit world with a hierarchy

15:50 – What about that ‘seed of higher essence’?

16:00 – in creation – three types of substances were created
Matter – spirit – and soul

Everything is made of something spirit and soul are more refined than matter
Judeo-Christian – soul and spirit are ethereal – meaning NOT 3D material matter – corporeal

17:40 – 3 types of people – hylic – psychic – and pneumatic
I say = the lost – the believers – and the Born Again

18:25 – The Gnostic text is drawing inspiration from the Apostle Paul 1 Cho 2:11-13

19:10 – The Valentinian Christians were deeply invested in scripture that becomes Canon

19:40 – who are the three types of people
Elaine Pagle = psychic / believers = ordinary Christians

20:10 – pneumatic people = spiritual – others think them arrogant

20:35 – Luke 23:46 – Jesus poured our the spirit of Christ into the elect

Torah and The Gospels are the Gold texts
YES - Jesus poured out the spirit of Christ
Correct – let go – released – set free from the body

Joh 16:7  Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you. 

Joh 16:7  But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away! For if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 

22:45 – Valentinian Christianity offers a grander view of the cosmos and heavens

22:50 – Gnostic special knowledge – secret knowledge
1- Valentiaian Christians were NOT Gnostic – just a group of First century Christians

2- What is this special knowledge that Roman orthodoxy that others mock
Answer – the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Not all Christians are spirit filled – or even understand this meaning

Those who have experience it – cannot possible share the experience with you so you will understand. There were several testimonials posted here about their witness – Robert mocked it all and called it satanic

[Dave]

Gnosticism - Irenaeus and his Against Heresies - Catholic Orthodoxy vs the Valentinian Gnostics

Warning – my wife will not sit and listen to this guy
He is speaking academically – specifically – seems too wordy for her – he uses Big Words to be specifically

Opening Points – Irenaeus – used his power of his writing against Valentinian Christians – Irenaeus’s orthodoxy becomes the doctrine of Catholicism -
Irenaeus becomes “doctor” of the Roman Catholic Church
Irenaeus begins the brutal attack upon the Gnostics

4:00 – cannot underestimate the inter-group conflicts of early Christians – many different sects – different views – before canon scripture

Extremely diverse collection of different styles of early Christianity

15:45 – Irenaeus’s BOOK – Against all Heresy
A 5 volume attack against Gnosticism – especially Valentinian Christians
But – lumps – many different groups together all under one word – Gnostic

Again – the presentation of Gnostic cosmology is a collecton of several different views

22:45 – the addition of the Nag Hammadi Library

27:30 – How much of Gnosticism is to be taken literally and how much figuratively?

28:25 – so interesting – Irenaeus – was the first to suggest – logic doesn’t matter – take it on faith
The mantra of Catholicism for centuries – and the legacy of error in the age of scientific discovery

29:20 – Irenaeus’s writings are adopted as Roman catholic doctrine

30:30 – Irenaeus’s impact on Roman canon

31:40 – Irenaeus argued that all Gnostic had their origin in Simon Magus
Simon Magus is an anti-Peter character – follower of Phillip
Peter brings about the death of Simon Magus (Act of Peter and the 12)

32:20 – after the fact – fables were written about him

32:45 – The authority is the ability to interpret scripture for you
33:00 – a divinely inspired hermanutics that allows insiders to be able to interpret the poetry of scripture – sounds 100% like Robert

37:30 – Irenaeus also taught - Jesus Christ lived into His 50s before His crucifixion

40:00 – Irenaeus claimed Gnostics believe in re-incarnation
Re-incarnation is a Jewish teaching
40:10 – many will be saved in the end

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some consider slowness. Rather, He is being patient toward you—not wanting anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance. 

42:50 – it was just a theological different between two Christian groups – until one of these groups was awarded State Power