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Post by Dave on Jan 1, 2022 21:32:01 GMT -5
Most people associate the idea of being ‘born again’ with a certain kind of conservative evangelical Christianity. However, the experience of being born again through the inward transformative power of the Spirit of Christ was an absolutely essential aspect of early Quaker faith and practice. I agree – the goal is to more than just a believer – the goal is to become a spirit filled disciple
First and foremost, this was not about becoming a member of the right religious club or signing up to the right set of beliefs or doctrine. I agree – it is not a club – religion and its rituals are a man-made thing
Instead it pointed to a real experience of change in which people’s relationship with God, with other humans and with the rest of the creation was fundamentally transformed. Real experience - Tangible
Perhaps the most thorough early Quaker examination of the distinction between the first birth in the flesh and the second birth in the Spirit can be found in James Nayler's tract A Discovery of the First Wisdom from Beneath and the Second Wisdom from Above or The Difference betwixt the Two Seeds, The one after the flesh, the other after the Spirit which was published in 1653. An on-line version is available on the Quaker Heritage Press website. See the link below:
Interesting parallel the First Wisdom from Beneath (WORLD) and the Second Wisdom from Above (SPIRIT) the Two Seeds, The one after the flesh (WORLD), the other after the Spirit
For Nayler, the heavenly and spiritual reality represents the ‘Truth’. I agree – spiritual reality is the larger reality – this WORLD is a holographic illusion
Alienation from God and a focus of the first birth on thing that are not God is merely a temporary corruption of the divine order of creation, a form of delusion that is destined to be destroyed with the coming of the kingdom of God. False religion is man-made within the conditions of the first birth and is focussed outwardly (on earthly, material, carnal, corruptible and fallen things). YES! – focused upon the WORLD Robert even says his angels are made of 3D biology just like man
True religion comes from God, bringing a second birth and is focused inwardly (on heavenly, spiritual, eternal and incorruptible things). Absolutely agree – the inner man and the inner struggle
People rea free to choose between the two. YES – man is the creature that can choose
For Nayler, false man-made religion is a form of idolatry because it involves worshiping something other than God. Agree – doctrine before scripture
B. KEY POINTS IN SUMMARY 1. We are all born physically but we must also be born again in Spirit MUST BE? – not must be – all that is required for salvation is belief / faith Must be Born Again to be the First Fruits
The wisdom of the world and the wisdom of God are in conflict with one another. WORLD –vrs- Spirit = Gen 3:15
The wisdom of the world enslaves us but the wisdom of God sets us free. WORLD keeps us focused here – no time for the Holy Spirit
There is no point professing our belief in Christ outwardly unless we are taught by him inwardly. Possession is more important than profession. Hmmmm? – this is sounding like a private club of its own Richard
We must let God teach us what form of worship is acceptable. The best form = DO YOUR JOB = Jer 1:5
Outward and manmade worship is a form of idolatry. Agree – a lot of pompous righteous Christians in the world
The Light brings us into the new covenant where God’s law is written on our hearts. Agree - promised
The Light protects us from the evil ways of the world. Protects our soul - YES Protects our body? – Jesus sent his disciple out among the wolves – you will be persecuted – you will be hated – by your own family
The Light enables us to distinguish between what is from God and what is contrary to God. Knowing tov from ra - agree
The Light brings us to the cross where our disobedient earthly nature (the first birth) is crucified and a new spiritual nature (the second birth) in is raised up in communion with God. In communion with God = Baptism of the Holy Spirit – The Spirit teaching our spirit
The earthly nature and the heavenly nature are opposed to one another. Paul chapter 7 – the conflict between flesh and spirit – the inner struggle
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2022 16:17:09 GMT -5
D" G4567 - Σατανᾶς – Satanas - Of Chaldee origin: the accuser, that is, the devil: - Satan. G4566 - Σατᾶν – Satan - Of Hebrew origin [H7854]; Satan, that is, the devil: - Satan.R"I have asked you to show me a video of a study explaining this confusion of satan and satanas. Show me a scholar study of the differences? How is this post a scholar serious study Dave? I cannot find anything in the WWW, so I am asking you. D" Because if you doubt in the Lord – why should He perform miracles for youR" are you dull? so if you doubt the amanuah, the invisible promised power, will not flow as visible evidence. SO the "amanuah, the invisible promised power, " is first, the "visible evidence" is second, afterwards. DO you agree with me now? D" You refuse the gifts – you do not want to heal anyone – or help bring another to the Lord – to make the blind see again?R" have you healed anyone Dave (in the Name of Jesus) or made a blind person see? Have you done any public miracles in His name? My brother, a Pastor has, but I have not, used Jesus Name in this way. D" 1-Man is a spiritual beings having a physical souljourn – we are here to Jer 1:5 2- Once we believe in Christ – we can receive the Holy Spirit as our personal instructor 3- we can receive the Holy Spirit – if we believe and we ask – it is called the baptism of the Holy Spirit THIS IS AN EVENT YOU WILL NEVER FORGET! Or confuse as anything else! 4- Once we have the Comforter – gifts of the Spirit do and can flow through youR" these gifts you speak of? 1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 2Pe 1:5 ¶ And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. Which of these qualities of GOD are abundant in you? For me, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,the word of knowledge , and to virtue knowledge, to knowledge temperance, As you can see I lack full completion of the gifts of God right now in my life. D" YES – salvation is a gift – the gift we do not deserve (Grace) and it is given in return for belief Intangible - hearing Intangible – we understand Correct – it is intangibleR" You really write so clear a discussion that I am able to understand. What do you mean by intangible? If I hear the words I speak, the promise of power is heard, the invisible flow becomes visible, and that process is called faith. The evidence comes later. Richard posts comments" Richard " The Light protects us from the evil ways of the world.Rob" Why do you see the world as evil? Richard "C hrist has come to destroy evil, to free the oppressed and imprisoned and to establish the kingdom of GodRob" Why are their no agents of evil, no personal powerful beings who also sin with humans? Shalom -----------------------Dave posts again over Richard-------------------- Richard " Most people associate the idea of being ‘born again’ with a certain kind of conservative evangelical Christianity. However, the experience of being born again through the inward transformative power of the Spirit of Christ was an absolutely essential aspect of early Quaker faith and practice. Dave" I agree – the goal is to more than just a believer – the goal is to become a spirit filled discipleRob " I agree with you both, too Richard" First and foremost, this was not about becoming a member of the right religious club or signing up to the right set of beliefs or doctrine.Dave" I agree – it is not a club – religion and its rituals are a man-made thingRob " I agree with you both, too Richard" Alienation from God and a focus of the first birth on thing that are not God is merely a temporary corruption of the divine order of creation, a form of delusion that is destined to be destroyed with the coming of the kingdom of God. False religion is man-made within the conditions of the first birth and is focussed outwardly (on earthly, material, carnal, corruptible and fallen things). Dave" Y ES! – focused upon the WORLDRob " so only the world is evil and thus the world is causing humans to sin. Are their no other agents of sinning except for humans? We assume the archons have no free will, and thus cannot sin, as we assume the term missing God's powers mean? SO their is no agent of sin, no father of lies, no murderer in Richard and Dave's view? This devil is just the Greek Satanas, the serpent archon who was created that way without free will, and hence does not morally sin anyway, so the term "father of lies" and a "murderer" do not apply. Scripture is wrong, it's a metaphor? We have GNostic (higher knowledge) of Scripture, which helps us to see a higher truth, is that it? RIchard " True religion comes from God, bringing a second birth and is focused inwardly (on heavenly, spiritual, eternal and incorruptible things).Dave" Absolutely agree – the inner man and the inner struggleRob" Hmm? so only the world God created our world, is inherently evil. Can't use NT texts because the higher knowledge says this Greek Satanas is a archon being , not the same as the OT prosecuting attorney? Job 1:1 ¶ There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. Job avoided the RA in the world, and was perfect and upright. Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto "the prosecuting attorney", Whence comest thou? Then "the prosecuting attorney" answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. SO "the prosecuting attorney" is looking for humans to prosecute. Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto "the prosecuting attorney" , Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Here is a typical court judgement scene. Have you considered my servant Job? He has done nothing wrong? Job 1:9 Then "the prosecuting attorney" answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? Why does the prosecuting attorney say this? He admits there is nothing to prosecute with Job, so tries to argue for a deeper excuse not to prosecute him. Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. Why does God hedge and protect Job, and from whom does God protect him? That is a critical question I want RIchard and Dave to answer? WHOM does GOD hedge us from? the world? or some agents of sin? The hedges were thorns to keep out bears, lions and predators of the sheep. What are bears and lions symbols of? SUre are agents of RA, or just the world with RA in it? Depends on how you see. Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. Put forth your hand and touch Job, and Job will curse you? Question" How does GOD do that? Dave says God has a department for that? God does not touch the upright Himself. Is this Biblical ? Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto "the prosecuting attorney" , Behold, all that Job hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. Notice GOD allows "the prosecuting attorney" to be assigned as the agent of RA, to do all in the prosecuting attorney's power to hurt Job, only not take JOb's life. Question" Is this not a conflict of interest? the prosecuting attorney is not a destroyer, a murderer, and a killer of JOb's assets? Something wrong with Dave's defining of "satan", meaning opposer, one who opposes another. The hedge was designed to keep out the prosecuting attorney, who is also a destroyer, killer and taker of sheep life. Richard" The Light protects us from the evil ways of the world.Dave" Protects our soul - YES - Protects our body? – Jesus sent his disciple out among the wolves – you will be persecuted – you will be hated – by your own familyRob" The light of GOD hedges and protects us from the evil ways of the prosecuting attorney, who lives in the worlds as the prince of darkness. SOmehow you both ignore the agent of SIN. This the prosecuting attorney is also a destroyer, a devil who hates those saved, not only prosecutes them, but wants to destroy us. Dave is right, Jesus hedges and protects us from the haSatan, not the satanas serpent , they are the same agency of darkness, the destroyer of life, the murderer from before time, a father of lies. Either you both seek the higher knowledge above Scripture, or you seek the humble Scriptures as God gave to mankind, no Roman edit, but allowed us to have the Hebrew torah unchanged and unedited. 1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of gnosis (higher knowledge) falsely so called: 21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 2, 2022 19:38:11 GMT -5
"G4567 - Σατανᾶς – Satanas - Of Chaldee origin: the accuser, that is, the devil: - Satan. G4566 - Σατᾶν – Satan - Of Hebrew origin [H7854]; Satan, that is, the devil: - Satan. R"I have asked you to show me a video of a study explaining this confusion of satan and satanas. Show me a scholar study of the differences? 1- Jewish theology = Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord in service to the Lord 2- Jewish theology = the opposition was other nation and their ‘other gods’ with their own devils and satanas – 33 ‘other gods’ mentioned by name 3- Jewish theology = identify some of these opposes as Beelzebub, Lilith, shedim, ands satyrs 4- Jesus Christ came as the Messiah and completed the story – he did not change the story5- from the agl/NT the Beast is identified – as the serpent – who is called devils and CHALDEAN SATANAS 6- the agl/NT says these archon / Principalities are our real struggle 7- the agl/NT says they were made by God for God How is this post a scholar serious study Dave? I cannot find anything in the WWW, so I am asking you.Why don’t you turn to scriptureMat 5:17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. Jesus did not come to rewrite Jewish theology – Rome hasD"You refuse the gifts – you do not want to heal anyone – or help bring another to the Lord – to make the blind see again? R" have you healed anyone Dave (in the Name of Jesus) or made a blind person see? Have you done any public miracles in His name? YES – not as you want me to say – but yes – I have felt the Lord – I have seen miracales – and I have a gift It may not be as big as you want – who cares – it is mine – and you will never talk me into denying my personal experience or my faithD"YES – salvation is a gift – the gift we do not deserve (Grace) and it is given in return for belief Intangible - hearing Intangible – we understand Correct – it is intangibleR" You really write so clear a discussion that I am able to understand.
What do you mean by intangible? BUY a dictionary – I tire of your word gamesRichard "The Light protects us from the evil ways of the world. Rob" Why do you see the world as evil?WHAT – you call this a flawed world – it has all fallen according to youRichard’s post did not say this world is evil – it said the ways of this world are evil1- you misrepresent Rich – you misrepresent a lie 2- the ways of the world = selfishness / lust / desire / greed Richard "Christ has come to destroy evil, to free the oppressed and imprisoned and to establish the kingdom of God Rob" Why are their no agents of evil, no personal powerful beings who also sin with humans?Man does not need help to sin – and man has no one to blame the sin upon except himselfRichard "Most people associate the idea of being ‘born again’ with a certain kind of conservative evangelical Christianity. However, the experience of being born again through the inward transformative power of the Spirit of Christ was an absolutely essential aspect of early Quaker faith and practice. Dave" I agree – the goal is to more than just a believer – the goal is to become a spirit filled disciple Rob " I agree with you both, too NO YOU DON’T – you claim anyone who passively says I believe is filled and gifted by GodRichard" First and foremost, this was not about becoming a member of the right religious club or signing up to the right set of beliefs or doctrine. Dave" I agree – it is not a club – religion and its rituals are a man-made thing Rob " I agree with you both, too a s long as we bow to Ellen White and satan as a god No thanksRichard" Alienation from God and a focus of the first birth on thing that are not God is merely a temporary corruption of the divine order of creation, a form of delusion that is destined to be destroyed with the coming of the kingdom of God. False religion is man-made within the conditions of the first birth and is focussed outwardly (on earthly, material, carnal, corruptible and fallen things). Dave" YES! – focused upon the WORLD Rob " so only the world is evil and thus the world is causing humans to sin. Are their no other agents of sinning except for humans? We assume the archons have no free will, and thus cannot sinThis World is the Kingdom /domain of the archon – they want to keep us focused upon the worldChoose world or spiritual eternity1Jn 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. (Beast) Joh 17:14 I have given them Your word; and the world hated them, because they are not of the world just as I am not of the world. Joh 17:15 I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. (Beast) Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. But you are not of the world, since I have chosen you out of the world; therefore the world hates you. SO their is no agent of sin, no father of lies, no murderer in Richard and Dave's view? This devil is just the Greek Satanas, the serpent archon who was created that way without free will, and hence does not morally sin anyway, so the term "father of lies" and a "murderer" do not apply. Scripture is wrong, it's a metaphor? 1Jn 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. (Beast) We are to rise above this world – to give up the things of this world – this mortal illusion Focus on the next world – the true reality – our spiritual reality Mortal reality is but 70 years – spiritual reality = eternity We have GNostic (higher knowledge) of Scripture, which helps us to see a higher truth, is that it?NO we have a personal experience – an experience you will never understand – and something you will never get us to denyRIchard "True religion comes from God, bringing a second birth and is focused inwardly (on heavenly, spiritual, eternal and incorruptible things). Dave" Absolutely agree – the inner man and the inner struggle Rob" Hmm? so only the world God created our world, is inherently evil.You refuse to define your terms so you can use them interchangeably to be an ass the world God created our world, comes with inherent entropy - raThat is a critical question I want RIchard and Dave to answer? WHOM does GOD hedge us from? the world? or some agents of sin raBOTHNotice GOD allows "the prosecuting attorney" to be assigned as the agent of RA, to do all in the prosecuting attorney's power to hurt Job, only not take JOb's life. Question" Is this not a conflict of interest? the prosecuting attorney is not a destroyer, a murderer, and a killer of JOb's assets? Your Hasatan did none of those things – other men did Man does not nedd help to be greedy, selfish, mean, or cruel Something wrong with Dave's defining of "satan", meaning opposer, one who opposes another.Opposer is Roberts definitionAll Jews and Mainstream Christin define Hebrew satan as the accuser
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Post by Dave on Jan 3, 2022 0:49:48 GMT -5
Richard "Christ has come to destroy evil, to free the oppressed and imprisoned and to establish the kingdom of God Rob" Why are their no agents of evil, no personal powerful beings who also sin with humans? Man does not need help to sin – and man has no one to blame the sin upon except himself
No one is denying the Beast – the serpent race – called devils and satanas (ARCHON) Eph 6:12 they are our real enemy
Why – because they are of WORLD – this is their kingdom/domain There are many archon – in human form – in alien form – in demon form – and invisible David Ike – Alex Jones – Bilderberg’s – Illuminati – shadow governments – religious teaching ‘other gods’ – other religions – Allah and Islam
All 100% real and in your face 24/7 All the ‘other gods’ of the ahl/OT are 100% real All the ‘other gods’ are 100% real – Hindu – Chaldea – Greece – Rome – Norse – etc etc – THE WHOLE WORLD
None of it has anything to do with Hebrew satan, Ezk 28, Isa 14, or Roman satan and Halloween
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2022 14:32:27 GMT -5
D"Jesus did not come to rewrite Jewish theology – Rome has R" Sorry but the Satan you ignore influence the Jews into a different theology long before Jesus arrived. Jesus came to show mankind the correct torah interpretation, the Jews interpreted their tanak wrong, it was full of man's idea and traditions of men. Rome did not edit the torah in Jesus time, the Jews themselves did. How come Jesus said to Jews ye are of your father the devil?
D"YES – not as you want me to say – but yes – I have felt the Lord – I have seen miracales – and I have a gift It may not be as big as you want – who cares – it is mine – and you will never talk me into denying my personal experience or my faith R" Praise the Lord, Dave, I will not take away your experience. D"BUY a dictionary – I tire of your word games R" A message is best understood by the author not some dictionary/
Ro 8:3 ...God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, Our masons in our SDA church I suspect have add corruption to the term "sinful flesh"
They say Jesus died in sinful flesh, a statement Mrs White never agrees to. And you say buy a dictionary?
The Best way to understand is to ask the Author, not other humans.
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D"the ways of this world are evil R" Oh sorry, so our world is not flawed?
D"1- you misrepresent Rich R" Oh sorry, I thought due to Adam's sin, God cursed His own Creation, a consequence of Adam's decision to miss God's power flowing to Adam, the prince of earth's creation. The serpent took over the crown, and became prince of the earth and it's creation. Jesus came as a human and took the crown from Satan, and is now a rightful prince of earth and His creation.
D"Man does not need help to sin – and man has no one to blame the sin upon except himself R" I agree, but I asked is there no agents of SIN?
D"NO we have a personal experience – an experience you will never understand R" I see, so if a person goes to Pentecostal Churches and emotionally speaks in tongues and heals others of some disease in public, this person feels saved by God and is thus experienced with miracles of grace, gifts of the Spirit. It is an experience I will never understand, unless I experience it myself.
Hmm? Question should our emotions and our experiences over ride the cognitive mind to reason with God?
Like the movies, "trust your heart" do what you heart says?
Is that it? or do we do what our minds say, and we speak the words of faith, the emotions flow afterwards, not before?
D" God created our world, comes with inherent entropy - ra R" I would not agree to this, our world was perfect with ra, Some ra from other beings who sinned, were placed in our world, yes. And earth was a stage for a perfect world to live with a Ra world, for the purpose of witnessing against the sin of the fallen angels. Does the Bible state this idea clearly?
Rev 12, there was war in heaven, now war on earth.
D"Your Hasatan did none of those things – other men did R" Arrh be the HaSatan has other agents under him, you fail to admit. Thus you ignore the Opposer being the same agents as the satanas in the Greek. You stumble over a suffix, and make the beings as two separate beings.
D"All Jews and Mainstream Christin define Hebrew satan as the accuser R" Now who is playing word games?
An accuser is an opposer. However one sentence, the word accuser does not fit.
Nu 22:22 ¶ And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him.
Did GOD's agent accuse Baalim on the road, or block the road? A better fit is the agent of God opposed the ass on the road, also opposing Baalim.
I do not see accusation here, on the agent of God, only a physical blocking of the road. What do you see here Dave? Do you agree with me?
D"No one is denying the Beast – the serpent race – called devils and satanas (ARCHON) Eph 6:12 they are our real enemy R" Oh, so how about a scholar link or video explaining the reason why you place so much theology on a added Greek suffix? the stem word "Satan" does not change with added suffix, Dave. Explain
man, aman, and amanuh are all different words with slightly different meanings, yes,
but these words are a family group, all with the basic idea of support, ie faith.
You go overboard and say a suffix changes the word meaning completely.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 4, 2022 16:58:43 GMT -5
D"Jesus did not come to rewrite Jewish theology – Rome has R" Sorry but the Satan you ignore influence the Jews into a different theology long before Jesus arrived. Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Jesus did not come to change the TorahJesus came to show mankind the correct torah interpretation, the Jews interpreted their tanak wrong, it was full of man's idea and traditions of men.Correct – you repeat the Roman argument perfectly – Damn those Jews – this is why Rome waged war upon the JewSynod of Laodicea - Canon 29www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htmChristians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ. Rome did not edit the torah in Jesus time, Correct – Jesus, the disciples, and the first Christians were all of the same Messanic Jewish theology Rome began with St Irenaeus (90AD) and became dominate around 300 ADHow come Jesus said to Jews ye are of your father the devil?Because the Sanhedrin changed Judaism into Modern televangelism and all the man-made garbage that come with it – the Temple had become a commercial enterprise – the Ruling Rabbi were the richest men – the Ruling Rabbi were the most powerful man 100% exactly like Roman Catholicism revolving around a priest, a bishop, a pope, or a building All of it = WORLD, money, power, prestige D"BUY a dictionary – I tire of your word games R" A message is best understood by the author not some dictionary/ The Best way to understand is to ask the Author, not other humans. This author uses a dictionary – why – because he choose to be accurate with his words My definition are clearIntangible unable to be touched or grasped; not having physical presence. "my companions do not care about cyberspace or anything else so intangible" Similar: impalpable, untouchable, imperceptible to the touch, nonphysical (google) What is intangible thing? Intangible things are entities that have no physical form. (google) What is an example of an intangible? An intangible asset is an asset that is not physical in nature. Goodwill, brand recognition and intellectual property, such as patents, trademarks, and copyrights, are all intangible assets. Intangible assets exist in opposition to tangible assets, which include land, vehicles, equipment, and inventory. Cool – what a good example – a patentA patent is a bunch of paperwork that describes a thing A patent for a cure will not cure anyone A patent for a plane does not fly Belief is in the intangible – faith in the intangible held with conviction is a good thing if directed corectly Ro 8:3 ...God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, Our masons in our SDA church I suspect have add corruption to the term "sinful flesh" They say Jesus died in sinful flesh, a statement Mrs White never agrees to. And you say buy a dictionary?Rom 8:3 For what was impossible for the Torah—since it was weakened on account of the flesh—God has done. Sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as a sin offering, He condemned sin in the flesh— I agree with scripture – Jesus had to be just like man – Jesus was a man – Jesus did not escape the temptations of the flesh – on the cross his FLESH born all the sin of mankind – doesn’t get any more sinful than that – Jesus was 100% Son of Man biology with (yester ra) Jesus Christ was (100% Son of Man – Jesus – biology (yester ra)) + (100% God incarnate – the image of God – the Son of God) The lesson = Christ (spirit) was more than Jesus (biology) -------------- D"1- you misrepresent Rich R" Oh sorry, I thought due to Adam's sin, God cursed His own Creation, a consequence of Adam's decision Agreed – and the earth does not make it easy for man Gen 3:17 Then to the man He said, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate of the tree which I commanded you, saying, ‘You must not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow will you eat food, until you return to the ground, since from it were you taken. For you are dust, and to dust will you return.” Agreed – and the earth does not make it easy for man This has nothing to do with sharks growing teeth – or lions eating meat – all the empirical evidence contradicts your religious teachingThe serpent took over the crown, and became prince of the earth and it's creation.Sorry Robert – the Archon have always been here since creation – they were here first – this is their kingdom / domainJesus came as a human and took the crown from Satan, and is now a rightful prince of earth and His creation.So now this world is not flawed – or Jesus is the price of ra – which is itD"Man does not need help to sin – and man has no one to blame the sin upon except himself R" I agree, but I asked is there no agents of SIN?YES there are – the 200 or so archon bane elohiym altered their form to violate – Reproduce after your own kind” – they are held in chains in the 4th Heaven awaiting to be released once again in Rev 9D"NO we have a personal experience – an experience you will never understand R" I see, so if a person goes to Pentecostal Churches and emotionally speaks in tongues and heals others of some disease in public, this person feels saved by God and is thus experienced with miracles of grace, gifts of the Spirit.1- Pentecostal has nothing to do with it – it is open to all Christians 2- emotional? – Powerful YES – unforgettable YES – 3- tongues is tnot the only gift 4- healing is not the only gift 5- if you understood the word GRACE – you would realize that it is a miracle It is an experience I will never understand, unless I experience it myself. Hmm?Robert – you speak so against it – you deny it – you doubt it – you do not believe it – you make fun of it and those who profess their witnessQuestion should our emotions and our experiences override the cognitive mind to reason with God?Listen up Jonah – your biological mind cannot reason with God Submit and serve – or resistLike the movies, "trust your heart" do what you heart says?If your heart is following (yester tov) to Jer 1:5 – then yes If your hearth is following flesh (yester ra) – then no Is that it? or do we do what our minds say, and we speak the words of faith, the emotions flow afterwards, not before?AS A BELIEVER – it is what you do – you come to fellowship and listen and learn – then learn to study for your self – and hopefully through it all – you mature from being a religious believer to a Born Again Disciple Some ra from other beings who sinned, were placed in our world, yes. D"Your Hasatan did none of those things – other men did R" Arrh be the HaSatan has other agents under him, you fail to admit. Thus you ignore the Opposer being the same agents as the satanas in the Greek. You stumble over a suffix, and make the beings as two separate beings. Word study satan –vrs- satanas HEBREW SATANwww.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h7853/nkjv/wlc/0-1/G4566 Σατάν Of Hebrew origin שָׂטָן (H7854) H7854 שָׂטָן - śāṭān 1- adversary, one who withstands 2- adversary (in general - personal or national) 3- superhuman adversary 4- Satan (as noun pr) 5- From שָׂטַן (H7853) - Qal) to be or act as an adversary, resist, oppose H7854 – Hebrew satan is used in 23 ahl/OT verses Robert and I went through each and every verse – in each case Hebrew satan was an angel of the Lord in service of the Lord Jews and mainstream Christians call Hebrew satan the heavenly prosecutor G4566 – Hebrew satan is used only once in the agl/NT2Co 12:7 (TLV) even in the extraordinary quality of the revelations. So that I would not exalt myself, a thorn in the flesh was given to me—a a messenger of satan to torment me, so I would not exalt myself. 2Co 12:7 (KJV) And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. Consistent with ahl/OT uses – a reminder –from the prosecutor CHALDEAN SATANASwww.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h7853/nkjv/wlc/0-1/G4567 Σατανᾶς Of Aramaic origin G4567 is used 33 times in thr ahl/NT – in each verse Chaldean satanas = 1- adversary (one who opposes another in purpose or act), the name given to 2- the prince of evil spirits, the inveterate adversary of God and Christ 3- he incites apostasy from God and to sin 4- circumventing men by his wiles 5- the worshippers of idols are said to be under his control 6- by his demons he is able to take possession of men and inflict them with diseases 7- by God's assistance he is overcome 8- on Christ's return from heaven he will be bound with chains for a thousand years, but when the thousand years are finished he will walk the earth in yet greater power, but shortly after will be given over to eternal punishment 9- a Satan-like man greeklexicon.org/lexicon/strongs/4567/G4567 Σατανᾶς Derivation: of Chaldee origin corresponding to H4566 (with the definite affix); Definition: the accuser, i.e. the devil G4567 Σατανᾶς = H4566 = work(s) deed(s) H4566 – מַעְבָּד - From H5647; an act: - work. H4567 – מַעְבָד - (Chaldee); corresponding to H4566; an act: - work. H5647 – עָבַד - A primitive root; to work H4566 is used only once in the ahl/OTJob 34:25 (TLV) Thus He recognizes their deeds, He overturns them in the night and they are crushed. Job 34:25 (KJV) Therefore he knoweth their works, and he overturneth them in the night, so that they are destroyed. Job 34:25 (YLT) Therefore He knoweth their works, And He hath overturned by night, And they are bruised. Job 34:25 (LXX) ὁ γνωρίζων αὐτῶν τὰ ἔργα καὶ στρέψει νύκτα, καὶ ταπεινωθήσονται. G2041 - ἔργον - From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work. Conclusion Hebrew satan (H7854) - Robert and I went through each and every verse – in each case Hebrew satan was an angel of the Lord in service of the Lord Jews and mainstream Christians call Hebrew satan the heavenly prosecutor Hebrew satan appears only once in the agl/NT as a reminder to man Chaldean satanas is the agl?NT ”Prince of this world”, “The devil”, “the Principalities of the agl?NT” – the Beast of Revelation – that ancient serpent (of the garden) – called devil and satanas Chaldean satanas appears 33 times in the agl/NT – and in each verse he is the prince of this world – the devil – NT satan Chaldean satanas is referenced only once in the ahl/OT – as works / deeds (WORLD) Hebrew satan and Chaldean satanas are two different entities – two different origins – two different definitions – two different functions within creation Questions for RobertAll through the ahl/OT there are many verses about other gods – there are verses about Lilith and the shedim, there are verses about the satyrs – they have names – Basl. Bel, Molech, Dogon, Chermush, Beelzebub, etc Why doesn’t scripture just say Hebrew satan in all these verses?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2022 14:28:52 GMT -5
D"Because the Sanhedrin changed Judaism into Modern televangelism and all the man-made garbage that come with it – the Temple had become a commercial enterprise – the Ruling Rabbi were the richest men – the Ruling Rabbi were the most powerful man 100% exactly like Roman Catholicism revolving around a priest, a bishop, a pope, or a building All of it = WORLD, money, power, prestige R" OK so to you the Rome edit is the Jewish edit of the torah, Jesus confronted and showed the correct way to follow the torah.
You play word games because you do not support main stream Christian views of the Satan/Devil.
I would say that Satan edit caused the Jews to confront Jesus, that the Devil was their Father, not the Father in heaven.
You negate this idea, and say the archons were the Jews Father, and the chief archon is the agent of RA, but not moral sin, as the archons do not sin according to Dave. You negate Jesus words when he says the Devil is a murderer and liar, hence free will here.
D"This author uses a dictionary – why – because he choose to be accurate with his words My definition are clear R" I smiled and giggled. foolishness Dave, If I had my way I would write poems in my own words, all the time with my own personal meanings. That is what inspired messages is.
For example, chata means a secular term to miss, but in the Bible is used to take on a stronger meaning.
Such a meaning is outside dictionaries by men, who think of removing the word from their dictionaries today.
Another example is the use of elohiym, men think the word comes from pagan origins, but only the Bible can be used to define their own word meanings.
D"Belief is in the intangible – faith in the intangible held with conviction is a good thing if directed corectly
R" God is NOT intangible. Faith is NOT intangible.
Just because God is not of matter, time or space, does not imply God is intangible, it simply means we have no way to describe God using our experiences. Faith is a process of getting a flow of God's powers when you pray His words of promised power. That is a real process, how and why it happens is not our concern. D"Jesus did not escape the temptations of the flesh – on the cross his FLESH born all the sin of mankind – doesn’t get any more sinful than that R" And?? do you agree or disagree? Did the flesh of Jesus become sinful? I thought to be a sinner or have sinful flesh, one has to have sinned? No person is born with sinful flesh, despite Adam's sin of inheritance.
RA aven propensities born into our flesh, is not a sin. It can become a sin, hence sinful flesh, only after the mind listens and chooses to sin, the aven wakes us and makes the sin biologically founded. But until the mind awakes the aven propensities of sin, the propensity lies there dormant. I would clearly say Jesus did not develop a sinful flesh on the Cross. He died on the Cross without sin in the likeness of sin-offering flesh is the way the Scriptures write this.
D"The lesson = Christ (spirit) was more than Jesus (biology) R I do not like the way you split the soul into spirit and biology. Scripture says man become a soul, from partnership of GOD to dusty man.
D"all the empirical evidence contradicts your religious teaching R" so you judge your theology on what you see here currently....have you not considered the past is different to our present? -------------
RP" I agree, but I asked is there no agents of SIN? D YES there are – the 200 or so archon bane elohiym altered their form to violate – Reproduce after your own kind” – they are held in chains in the 4th Heaven awaiting to be released once again in Rev 9 R" OK these agents must have free will, in order to violate and for GOD to lock them up and than later release them?
D"If your heart is following (yester tov) to Jer 1:5 – then yes If your heart is following flesh (yester ra) – then no R" so why mix the heart with the mind?
People are taught today to listen to their heart, not their mind?
D"AS A BELIEVER – it is what you do – you come to fellowship and listen and learn – then learn to study for your self – and hopefully through it all – you mature from being a religious believer to a Born Again Disciple R" only hopefully? Is there no guarantee of me becoming fully empowered by God?
D"G4566 – Hebrew satan is used only once in the agl/NT R" Yes technically maybe, but who agrees with this idea Dave? Show me a link?
D"Hebrew satan and Chaldean satanas are two different entities – two different origins – two different definitions – two different functions within creation R" I have asked you for a video or scholar study proving this idea, You have not done this?
D"Questions for Robert All through the ahl/OT there are many verses about other gods – there are verses about Lilith and the shedim, there are verses about the satyrs – they have names – Basl. Bel, Molech, Dogon, Chermush, Beelzebub, etc Why doesn’t scripture just say Hebrew satan in all these verses?
R" Are you asking me why doesn't Scripture make truth plain to Dave?
Eze 17:2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel; Eze 24:3 And utter a parable unto the rebellious house, and say unto them,
The word satan simply means to oppose/opposer, nothing inheritently bad about the term, some agents of sin thus oppose God. These agents come in different names. What you have done is invented to idea that God intentionally creates RA agents. I find this aspect of Gnostic writings an abomination.
No wonder you ponder confusion. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 6, 2022 2:29:42 GMT -5
You play word games because you do not support main stream Christian views of the Satan/Devil. No – I or no Jew support the Rome invention of the god of evil
You negate this idea, and say the archons were the Jews Father, and the chief archon is the agent of RA, but not moral sin, as the archons do not sin according to Dave. 1- you mix the term ra and sin because your refuse to define your terms 2- ra and sin are not interchangeable Every soldier on the Lord’s battlefield committed much ra – it was/is not a sin to obey the Lord Genocide against 7 tribes of Amorite – much ra – it was/is not a sin to obey the Lord God hardened Pharaoh’s heart = ra – did God sin God rained ra down upon Sodom and Gomorrah – did God sin God sentenced Adan to death and kicked him out of paradise = Ra ra and ra – did God sin
You negate Jesus words when he says the Devil is a murderer and liar, hence free will here. Lions murder, bacteria murder, virus murder, - 1- you refuse to define your terms 2- ra and sin are not interchangeable 3- Free Will has nothing to do with worldly decisions. Free Will is the ability to choose God or World. Makes no difference if you choose to be an electrician or an accountant – makes no difference if you choose to live in the country or the city - makes no difference if you eat candy or corn
D"Belief is in the intangible – faith in the intangible held with conviction is a good thing if directed corectly Just because God is not of matter, time or space, does not imply God is intangible, it simply means we have no way to describe God using our experiences. Correct – without personal experience – all you have is belief and hope
Faith is a process of getting a flow of God's powers when you pray His words of promised power. I agree – you belief can become stronger and stronger – strong convictions = Faith
D"Jesus did not escape the temptations of the flesh – on the cross his FLESH born all the sin of mankind – doesn’t get any more sinful than that R" And?? do you agree or disagree? Did the flesh of Jesus become sinful? – DUH – do you doubt Christ?
I thought to be a sinner or have sinful flesh, one has to have sinned? Sinful flesh comes first to have the ability to sin Your argument that the gun never appeared in your hand until after the pulled the trigger is nonesense
No person is born with sinful flesh, despite Adam's sin of inheritance. All biology come with (yester ra) – stop denying scripture All men are sinner – for we all have sinned – there is none righteous no not one RA aven propensities born into our flesh, is not a sin. YES – FINALLY YOU UNDERSTAND – this is called (yester ra) It can become a sin, YES – it is the root of our sin - WORLD
I would clearly say Jesus did not develop a sinful flesh on the Cross. He died on the Cross without sin in the likeness of sin-offering flesh is the way the Scriptures write this. Whatever Robert – all Christianity teaches that Christ bore all our sin on the cross – another anti-Christianity stance by you
D"The lesson = Christ (spirit) was more than Jesus (biology) R I do not like the way you split the soul into spirit and biology. STOP misrepresent me – soul = spirit within the body / spirit = soul out of the body ZERO biology
D"all the empirical evidence contradicts your religious teaching R" have you not considered the past is different to our present? No Robert I have not considered a past that contradicts all the empirical evidence In fact – I have several published theories on the subject 1- Non-Linear Time and The Logarithmic Days of Creation 2- Incremental Creation 3- and published in the literature – The Fluid Dynamics of Whole Earth Decompression Theory (FD-WEDT)
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RP" I agree, but I asked is there no agents of SIN? D YES there are – the 200 or so archon bane elohiym altered their form to violate – Reproduce after your own kind” – they are held in chains in the 4th Heaven awaiting to be released once again in Rev 9 R" OK these agents must have free will, in order to violate and for GOD to lock them up and than later release them? 1- they were locked up because they took their (yester ra) into the mortal world 2- their crime was (yester ra) lust, desire, rape? – taking concubines – fathering the Nephilim 3- This choice was – (yester ra) + World + mortality
You refuse to define your terms Free Will is only the choice between God and world Only man has that choice Angels were created to praise and serve – that is their only choice (yester tov) The Beast – the serpent race – was created to consume and devour (Rev 12:4) – that is their only choice (yerster ra) – or just ra / entroply – to wear down – to erode – to spoil Man is the creative that can choose – because we are (yester ra- animal) and (spirit/soul – yester tov)
D"If your heart is following (yester tov) to Jer 1:5 – then yes If your heart is following flesh (yester ra) – then no R" so why mix the heart with the mind? People are taught today to listen to their heart, not their mind?
OK – again I say – define what you mean by heart D” If your heart is following flesh (yester ra) Most people talk of the heart as the seat of emotion – to follow your hearths desire 99.999% of the time refers to following a worldly dream (I want to be a doctor /actor /whatever) – selfish desire – worldly desires Even love – is a heartfelt emotion – I agree (emotional love for my spouse / children / friends)
D"If your heart is following (yester tov) to Jer 1:5 – then yes Mat 22:37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love Adonai your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ Luk 10:27 And he replied, “You shall love Adonai your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”
We are to believe (love) God with our mind – and our heart = both biology And we are to love God with our soul/spirit – not biology
D"AS A BELIEVER – it is what you do – you come to fellowship and listen and learn – then learn to study for your self – and hopefully through it all – you mature from being a religious believer to a Born Again Disciple R" only hopefully? Is there no guarantee of me becoming fully empowered by God? NO – there is no guarantee Some are predestined – some are hardened /made stubborn – some are used for tov and some are used for ra – some are gifted with prophesy – some have received other gifts
One size does not fit all – God has a plan for each of us The hard part is to relax and play the role God wants – not what we want JONAH Stephan is martyred in the agl/NT – whose plan for him was this – his? All the original disciples were hand pick by Christ – and they were all martyred The hard part is to relax and play the role God wants – not what we want 6 million Jews were martyred to bring about 1948 Israel - each played their part
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2022 15:01:46 GMT -5
D" 2- ra and sin are not interchangeable Every soldier on the Lord’s battlefield committed much ra – it was/is not a sin to obey the Lord Genocide against 7 tribes of Amorite – much ra – it was/is not a sin to obey the Lord God hardened Pharaoh’s heart = ra – did God sin God rained ra down upon Sodom and Gomorrah – did God sin God sentenced Adan to death and kicked him out of paradise = Ra ra and ra – did God sinR" Nice challenge Dave. Hmm? Ra is a fruit of SIN. RA is a consequence of SIN. RA is a by product of SIN. God reacted to Pharoah's pride, I must say I have difficulty reading the sentence, God hardened the person... I have to have a coping statement, for some verses make no sense to me. God cannot sin, so how does God harden a person ? I would say the verse is written from a human hand seeing God as the Author of all things. God sees the person has pride. He reads the heart full of Sin and RA. I say the verse should read God responded to Paharoah and hardened His heart. This long winded detail is shortened by writers to God hardened His heart. How do I get this idea? From line upon line, across Scripture. God is not mocked, a man reaps what He sows. RP" You negate Jesus words when he says the Devil is a murderer and liar, hence free will here.D" Lions murder, bacteria murder, virus murder, - 1- you refuse to define your terms 2- ra and sin are not interchangeable 3- Free Will has nothing to do with worldly decisions. Free Will is the ability to choose God or World. Makes no difference if you choose to be an electrician or an accountant – makes no difference if you choose to live in the country or the city - makes no difference if you eat candy or cornR" Listen to your discussion Dave. Lots of sentence, nice but not a single account about opposing my view (1) devil is a murder and a liar (2) this means the devil chooses to murder and be a liar (3) this implies free will to choose, ie intellect, a cognitive decision (4) ra is the fruit of sin. Hence the devil is the true author of RA, not GOD who creates RA that normally is not allowed to exist. Not a single mention of the devil, or opposing these points. Lions murder, yes, therefore they have free will to murder and intellect to do so, they are not instinct programs as you claim. Their intelligence is less than man's, but they freely can love and respond to love. Lions are not moral judged as sinners, their fallen nature happened because of Adam's sin, who was once a steward over God's creation/ D" Sinful flesh comes first to have the ability to sinR" explain please D" All men are sinner – for we all have sinned – there is none righteous no not oneR" we are not born sinners, we become sinners from our sinning. To be born fallen with propensities is not sinful flesh, but fallen flesh, I am being pedantic here I know, they are not the same idea. Sin is a mind thing, fallen is a biology thing. RP" RA aven propensities born into our flesh, is not a sin.D YES – FINALLY YOU UNDERSTAND – this is called (yester ra) It can become a sin, YES – it is the root of our sin - WORLDR" YES Jews call is yester ra, but Bible terms it aven. D" Whatever Robert – all Christianity teaches that Christ bore all our sin on the crossR Yes Jesus took up our sinning, yes. D" 1- they were locked up because they took their (yester ra) into the mortal world 2- their crime was (yester ra) lust, desire, rape? – taking concubines – fathering the Nephilim 3- This choice was – (yester ra) + World + mortality
You refuse to define your terms Free Will is only the choice between God and world Only man has that choiceR" OK so did the archons have free will or not, to do their crimes? D" The Beast – the serpent race – was created to consume and devour (Rev 12:4) – that is their only choice (yerster ra) – or just ra / entroply – to wear down – to erode – to spoilR" Explain why a GOD of love would create SPOILERS that SPOIL? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 6, 2022 20:12:01 GMT -5
God reacted to Pharoah's pride, I must say I have difficulty reading the sentence, God hardened the person...Exo 9:12 But Adonai hardened the heart of Pharaoh, Deny scripture if you choose – Jews and Chriostian believe scriptureGod cannot sin, Agree – God never disobeys Himself – He always obeys HimselfRP"You negate Jesus words when he says the Devil is a murderer and liar, hence free will here. D" Lions murder, bacteria murder, virus murder, - 1- you refuse to define your terms 2- ra and sin are not interchangeable 3- Free Will has nothing to do with worldly decisions. Free Will is the ability to choose God or World. Makes no difference if you choose to be an electrician or an accountant – makes no difference if you choose to live in the country or the city - makes no difference if you eat candy or corn R" Listen to your discussion Dave. Lots of sentence, nice but not a single account about opposing my view Please define Free Will – you know my views – I have posted it for you a MILLION times So give me your definitionD"Sinful flesh comes first to have the ability to sin R" explain pleaseYou argue that the gun did not appear in your hand until after you pulled the trigger You argue that Eve only had one choice (yester tov) until she choose (yester ra) then it appeared with her as an option to choose NONESENSE RP"RA aven propensities born into our flesh, is not a sin. D YES – FINALLY YOU UNDERSTAND – this is called (yester ra) It can become a sin, YES – it is the root of our sin - WORLD R" YES Jews call is yester ra, but Bible terms it aven.It is not yester evil – it is not yester wicked – (it is yester ra) You do not agree with the Jews – or mainstream Chrstianity D"1- they were locked up because they took their (yester ra) into the mortal world 2- their crime was (yester ra) lust, desire, rape? – taking concubines – fathering the Nephilim 3- This choice was – (yester ra) + World + mortality R" OK so did the archons have free will or not, to do their crimes? Please define Free Will – you know my views – I have posted it for you a MILLION times So give me your definitionD"The Beast – the serpent race – was created to consume and devour (Rev 12:4) – that is their only choice (yerster ra) – or just ra / entroply – to wear down – to erode – to spoil R" Explain why a GOD of love would create SPOILERS that SPOIL?It is balance within nature – a fruit cannot reproduce with corrupting Virus cannot reproduce with causing injury and death to it host cell
Cows ripping grasses out of the ground = ra Giraffes plucking leaves off a tree is raIt is seen in nature as the proof of an Intelligent Designer – Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 17:26:53 GMT -5
D"You argue that Eve only had one choice (yester tov) until she choose (yester ra) then it appeared with her as an option to choose NONESENSE The decision to reason, positively or negatively, does not mean one has to have "yester ra" inside of us. Rob defines"
1) Free will, the ability to "Reason" or make "intelligent decisions" 2) Can also include the ability to reason with GOD and ask GOD to save us.
A program flow chart, does not require the addition of RA to make it work, one can just present RA in a positive way without needing the negative sense, for example"
include <stdio.h> int main() { int A, B, C; printf("Enter the numbers A, B and C: "); scanf("%d %d %d", &A, &B, &C); if (A >= B && A >= C) printf("%d is the largest number.", A);
R" here the decision is made, is A greater than B? No need to mention RA
if (B >= A && B >= C)
R" here the decision is made, is B greater than A? No need to mention RA.
printf("%d is the largest number.", B); if (C >= A && C >= B) printf("%d is the largest number.", C); return 0; }
My point is in a flowchart of programming human intelligence, a perfect cognitive sense does not require RA, the decision to be with GOD or not be with GOD, is a pure decision of TOV, has nothing to do with RA.
D"You do not agree with the Jews – or mainstream Chrstianity R" correct, you are making RA not the the meaning of evil?
Show me your proof.
D"Please define Free Will – you know my views – I have posted it for you a MILLION times So give me your definition Rob defines"
1) Free will, the ability to "Reason" or make "intelligent decisions" 2) Can also include the ability to reason with GOD and ask GOD to save us.
Bible verse
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
The passage is speaking of cognitive thinking, the ability to reason, and make decisions.
All creatures have the ability to make decisions, even the lowly bacteria, hence in a sense have free will to think and make decisions. However man is special, we have the HS recording our thinking decisions every moment of our lives, and this spirit goes upwards to heaven for judgement.
Other animals thinking goes downwards and not really considered that important to God.
D"you know my views – I have posted it for you a MILLION times R" really? with Bible texts? I don 't think so?
"RP" Explain why a GOD of love would create SPOILERS that SPOIL? D" It is balance within nature – a fruit cannot reproduce with corrupting Virus cannot reproduce with causing injury and death to it host cell Cows ripping grasses out of the ground = ra Giraffes plucking leaves off a tree is ra R" First we need to unravel your confusion here, why is eating plants RA?
Ge 1:29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
SO ALL animals were vegetarian, including dinosaurs and sharks and lions and man, also insects and mossies and flies and birds all ate plants. Why do you negate this verse so plainly stated?
Ge 1:31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Why do you negate this verse so plainly stated?
Where does the Scripture say GOD made anything of RA, dysfunction?
Ge 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
divided darkness from light, not created darkness, darkness was already on earth
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
Earth was not created, was already here, without from, so some RA already existed on earth, where and why was earth already with RA?
Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created (at - definite article) the heaven and earth.
Now eating plants does not kill the plant, as the plant has a different arrangement of nervous system and central systems for living. D"It is balance within nature – a fruit cannot reproduce with corrupting R That is not so.
Ge 1:11 ...and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind,
Fruit made without RA, and without seasonal changes either, and without rainfall.
Rainfall is considered RA, so are seasons RA and snow is also RA, these things only came after SIN came into Adam's creation when Adam sinned.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 8, 2022 16:27:49 GMT -5
D"You argue that Eve only had one choice (yester tov) until she choose (yester ra) then it appeared with her as an option to choose NONESENSE The decision to reason, positively or negatively, does not mean one has to have "yester ra" inside of us. Positive is one choice – Negative is another choice -DUH
Rob defines" 1) Free will, the ability to "Reason" or make "intelligent decisions" 2) Can also include the ability to reason with GOD and ask GOD to save us. Correct – your only perspective = WORLD and things of this world
The only choice that natters is to obey or disobey – choose God or reject God that is the Free Will choice given to man by God – the knowledge of TOV (the glory of God) and RA (missing out on God for WORLD)
Angels do not have this choice Demons / archon do not have this choice Animals do not have this choice Only man is the creature that can choose = Free Will to retune as the Prodigal Son – of you own choice
My point is in a flowchart of programming human intelligence, a perfect cognitive sense does not require RA, the decision to be with GOD or not be with GOD, is a pure decision of TOV, has nothing to do with RA. Except that the choice to not be with God is RA - while the decision to be with God is TOV
D"You do not agree with the Jews – or mainstream Chrstianity R" correct, you are making RA not the the meaning of evil? Correct ra does not mean aven – ra is not always evil
Every soldier in the army of the Lord committed a lot of RA Did God make then sin – does your god force you to be a sinner to win his battels?
"RP" Explain why a GOD of love would create SPOILERS that SPOIL? D" It is balance within nature – a fruit cannot reproduce with corrupting R" First we need to unravel your confusion here, why is eating plants RA? So to destroy something is not ra?
H7451 - ra - From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]
Ge 1:31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Why do you negate this verse so plainly stated? So it is not adverse, affliction, calamity, distress, harmful, hurtful, or mischief to plants Then why do you claim earth quakes and volcanoes ra?
And God look at his creation and called it TOV including the choshek
Where does the Scripture say GOD made anything of RA, dysfunction? Isa 45:7 – Col 1:16, - John 1:3 - Prov 16:4 - Rev 4:11
D"It is balance within nature – a fruit cannot reproduce with corrupting R That is not so. Ge 1:11 ...and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, Fruit made without RA, and without seasonal changes either, and without rainfall. This happens because the fruit falls to the ground and rots to provide the nourishment for the new growth All the emperical evidence supports the truth Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2022 16:45:42 GMT -5
D"Positive is one choice – Negative is another choice -DUH R" No Dave, I showed you programming flowcharts, and to negate a question is all that is required, you do not have to have the physical RA of that choice for that negation to occur.
D"The only choice that matters is to obey or disobey R" You make reasoning different. You make reasoning to obey or not obey. Free will is about reasoning, not necessarily to obey or disobey. Your logic is too narrow. Surely one can reason first, than choose to disobey? Free will must include thinking, reasoning and also deciding to obey or disobey?
D"Angels do not have this choice Demons / archon do not have this choice Animals do not have this choice R" No discussion once again, Dave. Why can't you add discussion to your words?
Why can't angels think, reason and choose to obey? Why can't archons think, reason and choose to obey? Why can't animals think, reason and choose to obey?
Notice my discussion Dave, please write yours?
If Jesus spoke to an archon, devil (according to you) Ye are of your archon the devil, He is a father of lies. So can this archon think? Yes
SO can this archon reason with subtle thinking? Yes (the serpent was cunning)
SO can this archon also sin and thus miss God, ie disobey God? Yes, Jesus said the archon/ devil was a liar, anbdn the father of lying. ALso a murderer, implying disobeys the moral law. Also Ezekiel add to this that cherubs also sin.
SO angels also think, and reason and choose to sin, thus disobey God.
But you ignore these verses.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
R" Dave thinks the messenger cherub here are chained with everlasting chains, but this is not what reads
The same parallels the everlasting fire of Sodom, is not burning still. The consequences are everlasting. Notice the angel messengers are chained under darkness. Re 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Does a chain bound or restrict movement?
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Both refer to chains of darkness. Not physical chains that restrict movement.
Ps 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation. 6 God setteth the solitary in families: he bringeth out those which are bound with chains: but the rebellious dwell in a dry land.
Someone fatherless is said to be bound with chains, it's a Hebrew idiom
Jer 39:7 Moreover he put out Zedekiah's eyes, and bound him with chains, to carry him to Babylon.
But the men were able to move, talk and walk.
Eze 19:4 The nations also heard of him; he was taken in their pit, and they brought him with chains unto the land of Egypt.
SImile picture here
Na 3:10 ...and all her great men were bound in chains.
Ac 12:6 .., the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains So some pictures of chains does restrict movement
Ps 142:7 Bring my soul out of prison,
Why is the soul in a prison?
Ec 4:14 For out of prison he cometh to reign;
Who comes out of prison to reign?
Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Arrh? seems like to me darkness itself is a prison, a prison house where we are chained by SIN.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living:
SO Jesus went to the hell of darkness atoning for sins there.... a prison where those sinned are chained ---------------------- Notice my long discussions Dave, clearly I present my views. --------------------
God creating the world perfect for Adam, had to include the SIN problem that existed before creation, (you claim this war happened during Creation, I say the war happened trillions of years before, where time never existed)
So God created a perfect world that included the ability to link to a sinful world, ie, the world of darkness from sinning angels already living on earth.
God was wanting Adam to resolve the SIN problem, by not falling into SIN, and allowed a second tree to be in Eden to show a second elohiym power was challenging the true elohiym power of GOD (Dave ignores the two trees in the centre, says that was one, but later noted my point on this idea)
If God is going to display a SIN problem, and GOD creates RA, than yes, GOD has to create a perfect world that includes the darkness from a sinning world.
(Dave understands this RA to mean that GOD created a RA world intentionally with Adam, where as I see two worlds here, and the SIN/darkness/sinning angels is another world on the earth already)
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D"Correct ra does not mean aven – ra is not always evil Every soldier in the army of the Lord committed a lot of RA Did God make then sin – does your god force you to be a sinner to win his battels? R" Yes ra is not aven, aven has positive and negative meanings, but mostly seen as negative. But RA is always seen as the fruits or consequence of sin. When one does RA due to another's SIN, does not mean the person is sinning, he is reacting to the sinner's sins. So yes Dave, correct, I would agree with you here.
D"So to destroy something is not ra? R" Hmm? You raise hard questions here, eating plant leaves must be RA. Maybe animals got food from plant secretions instead, nectar, fruits, that sort of thing?
D"And God look at his creation and called it TOV including the choshek R" Yes I see your point, the darkness was also termed good, yet came from angels who wanted to sin.
Maybe this declaration came from GOD's creating TOV for Adam,the darkness was not created, it was already there, from SIN from angels sinning already on the earth.
D"This happens because the fruit falls to the ground and rots to provide the nourishment for the new growth R" My understanding in the perfect world, the fruit remained on the tree until it was eaten or picked. The fruit never rotted or fell off. All fibre was soluble, nothing ever was excreted. A world far different to the one we now know.
{Stupid USA spelling checker, fibre is not spelt fiber, that is a typical www take over the English world and our dictionaries}
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 9, 2022 20:02:44 GMT -5
D"Positive is one choice – Negative is another choice -DUH R" No Dave, I showed you programming flowcharts, and to negate a question is all that is required, D"Positive is one choice – to negate a question is another choice -DUH D"The only choice that matters is to obey or disobey R" You make reasoning different. You make reasoning to obey or not obey. Free will is about reasoning, not necessarily to obey or disobey. Your logic is too narrow. My definition of Free Will is specific – therefore narrow
Free will must include thinking, reasoning and also deciding to obey or disobey? DUH – of course it is – the Choice to obey or disobey God always involves a decision This is the definition of Free Will – to choose to obey or disobey – choose God or world All other decisions you make in life are meaningless – be a plumber – or be a carpenter – be a priest – be a slave – the only Free Will decisions that is unique to man – is the choice to return to God as the Prodigal Son
D"Angels do not have this choice Demons / archon do not have this choice Animals do not have this choice R" No discussion once again, Dave. Why can't you add discussion to your words?
Why can't angels think, reason and choose to obey? Because they were created to praise and serve – that is their role in creation Why can't archons think, reason and choose to obey? Because they were created to promote entropy / ra – that is their role in creation Why can't animals think, reason and choose to obey? Because they were created to be animals – beast of the field – that is their role in creation
If Jesus spoke to an archon, devil (according to you) Ye are of your archon the devil, He is a father of lies. So can this archon think? Yes Absolutely – Gen 3 – the serpent is the most crafty of all the beast
SO can this archon reason with subtle thinking? Yes (the serpent was cunning) Absolutely – cows think – baboons think – and many decisions are made by the brain
SO can this archon also sin and thus miss God, ie disobey God? Show me the commandment for the archon – all you have are commandments for man The only commandment in scripture given to the BEAST of the field (serpent) = Be fruitful and multiply – and reproduce after your own kind
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
R" Dave thinks the messenger cherub here are chained with everlasting chains, but this is not what reads unto the judgment of the great day. – (Rev 9) The consequences are everlasting. Notice the angel messengers are chained under darkness. Totally agree
Re 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Your understanding of scripture is lacking – please spend some time learning about dispensation SO Jesus went to the hell of darkness atoning for sins there.... a prison where those sinned are chained Notice my long discussions Dave, clearly I present my views. Your view last month was to deny that Christ preached to the people of the Noah’s age – who were in hell/hades - just how clear are your views?
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God creating the world perfect for Adam, had to include the SIN problem that existed before creation, There was nothing before creation
So God created a perfect world that included the ability to link to a sinful world, Agree – tov and ra in nature = balance – and it was tov
(Dave understands this RA to mean that GOD created a RA world intentionally with Adam, where as I see two worlds here, and the SIN/darkness/sinning angels is another world on the earth already) DUH – I have asked you before to define your EDEN Two localities – Adam and Eve in Eden / Paradise – and the WORLD of tov and ra raging outside When Adan and Eve were ejected from the Garden – a guard was placed there to keep them from retuning When Adam sinned – NOTHING CHANGED IN THE WORLD – except Adam and Eve locality and knowledge – now they were in the lower world When Adam sinned Eden did not change – the world did not change The only change was Adam and Eve’s locality and their knowledge
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D"Correct ra does not mean aven – ra is not always evil Every soldier in the army of the Lord committed a lot of RA Did God make then sin – does your god force you to be a sinner to win his battels? R" RA is always seen as the fruits or consequence of sin. So yes Dave, correct, I would agree with you here. Why does your Feel Good god of TOV only make his chosen people sin?
D"So to destroy something is not ra? R" Hmm? You raise hard questions here, eating plant leaves must be RA And God said it was TOV!
D"And God look at his creation and called it TOV including the choshek R" Yes I see your point, the darkness was also termed good,
D"This happens because the fruit falls to the ground and rots to provide the nourishment for the new growth R" My understanding in the perfect world, the fruit remained on the tree until it was eaten or picked. The fruit never rotted or fell off. Then how do God’s fruit trees – be fruitful and multiple and fill all the earth?
{Stupid USA spelling checker,) – spelling is not the point or an issue – I am proof
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 14:19:47 GMT -5
D" My definition of Free Will is specific – therefore narrow R Well than you have a dictatorial GOD who expects you to obey all the time
not reason Not use your judgement Not choose prayer promises
So when I asked you want specific laws you are required to obey, Dave gave me a broad answer, yet your free will definition is narrow and specific? Come on FLipper FLopper, give me a consistent answer?
Free will is first about to reason than about to choose than about deciding which prayer promises to sow into our minds of not, this is an aspect to obey , yes.
I have a broad meaning of free will, not a narrow one. This is true because Jesus made it easier to obey and follow GOD through faith, not the letter of the law.
D"the only Free Will decisions that is unique to man – is the choice to return to God as the Prodigal Son R" but no angels are allowed to return as the Prodigal Angel?
D"Because they were created to praise and serve – that is their role in creation R" If you make a creature that just praises and serves, that is a robot, no free responding of love, what a pathetic god of love you worship Dave. Either God is a the absolute source of Love or He is not. For Dave, God is not love at all, more a machine who creates robot to praise and serve Him. You watch Matrix movies too much. How about a GOD of love, and creates love who that love returns in love.
D" Because they were created to promote entropy / ra – that is their role in creation
R" If you make a creature that does RA, how is this something God loves? God hates RA, and would never create creatures of RA? DOn't you follow scripture Dave? Obviously not
Pr 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 1) A proud look, 2) a lying tongue, and 3) hands that shed innocent blood, 18 4) An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, 5) feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 6) A false witness that speaketh lies, and 7) he that soweth discord among brethren. 20 ¶ My son, keep thy father's commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
It says here the Father hates RA, it also says here we are to follow the torah of our heavenly Mother.
But you make GOD as one, without personalities of love, (in entities that are separate yet freely choose to be echad) and even you claim GOD creates RA in creatures to do their RA naturally. you negate this verse saying only Man has free will, so it's OK for other sharks to eat fish in God's creation?
Your perfection was only in Eden, outside Eden everything was flawed.
D"Because they were created to be animals – beast of the field – that is their role in creation R" so animals are dumb and have no free will?
Isa 14:7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. 8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us
Even plants have free will to sing praises to God
Song 2:12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;
Animals too have free will to praise God
Job 12:7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: 8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. 9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? 10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
I suspect a GOD of LOVE created all things to LOVE God back with free will praise and singing.
Man however is special, for our free will is a response to be judged. We are meant to replace the fallen angels who sinned, in heaven. A two pennies thought of mine.
D"Absolutely – cows think – baboons think – and many decisions are made by the brain R" Well if all animals have intelligence, why do you limit the animals that they cannot love and be loved?
I love my dog and he loves me back. That is free will. One day we shall be able to talk freely to our dog and our dog talk freely back.
D"Your understanding of scripture is lacking – please spend some time learning about dispensation
R" brevity again, do tell
D"Your view last month was to deny that Christ preached to the people of the Noah’s age – who were in hell/hades - just how clear are your views? R" You miss idioms and sayings of Hebrew , and pretend to know all things based on one scripture alone,
My logic is founded upon line upon line, a must better way to get truth. You make things up from single verses, rather than investigate all the verses on a theme
D"There was nothing before creation R" nothing ? Are you saying GOD can only create once? Are there no other worlds and other universes God created creatures on with free will to love HIM? How narrow and selfish your view of God is?
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Not humans around as sons of GOD, during our creation. so this must refer to other children on other worlds praising God. Worlds where the creatures have not fallen.
D"Two localities – Adam and Eve in Eden / Paradise – and the WORLD of tov and ra raging outside When Adan and Eve were ejected from the Garden – a guard was placed there to keep them from retuning When Adam sinned – NOTHING CHANGED IN THE WORLD – except Adam and Eve locality and knowledge – now they were in the lower world When Adam sinned Eden did not change – the world did not change The only change was Adam and Eve’s locality and their knowledge R" I see. NO Dave, not my view.
Eden was perfect, outside Eden was perfect. Everything was perfect. The darkness on earth caused by sinning angels, sent there, long before man and creation arrived. D"Then how do God’s fruit trees – be fruitful and multiple and fill all the earth? R" I don't know We have things in a perfect world, we cannot understand.
Shalom
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