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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 20:53:17 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Cnk3pUs04Watch from 15th minute to the 19th minute of Alan Horvath, a defender of Hebrew, looks Jewish. I quote Alan's words" Wisdom cries in the streets, does wisdom cry, like a woman weeping?? cry.... wisdom built her house ? no "her" not there? nothing female about it. doesn't mean we make things personified, so we can start worshipping them. Now let's look at Proverb 8:1 using Bible Hub analysis:- 3808 [e] הֲלֹֽא־ hă-lō- Does not Adv-NegPrt 2451 [e] חָכְמָ֥ה ḥāḵ-māh wisdom N-fs 7121 [e] תִקְרָ֑א ṯiq-rā; cry out V-Qal-Imperf-3fs 8394 [e] וּ֝תְבוּנָ֗ה ū-ṯə-ḇū-nāh, and understanding Conj-w | N-fs 5414 [e] תִּתֵּ֥ן tit-tên lift up V-Qal-Imperf-3fs 6963 [e] קוֹלָֽהּ׃ qō-w-lāh. her voice N-msc | 3fs The Hebrew word wisdom is feminine, the verb is also feminine, the lift up is also feminine and the voice, a masculine term is meant to be feminine singular. Now I agree feminine case hebrew words do not imply gender persons, but Alan mocks the Hebrew language. Pr 8:1 ¶ Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice? (KJV) This is translated correctly because masculine word "voice" has to have a pronoun with the feminine Hebrew word and verb, hence "her voice" is correct. Alan Horavath remarks "doesn't mean we make things personified, so we can start worshipping them." Robert agrees, with the religious overtones, BUT Alan is not respecting the Hebrew He claims to support. Further overtones of religion is posted here for readers:- Wisdom is personified as the Holy Spirit or the Shadday, is a feminine person within the Godhead. Dave sees wisdom as a feminine expression of the heavenly Father. Alan does NOT see anything feminine allowed in the Proverbs 1 to 8 account at all. Alan says there is nothing female about it. I would not agree. While Dave and Rob may not agree to the nature of elohiym powers, (1) as one strong authority with three expressions (Dave's view) or (2) three strong authorities as different personalities of love, but one GOD (Rob's view). At least we both agree that that the Holy Spirit, or wisdom personified as feminine (whatever that picture means). This is one main reason why I was attracted to Dave's forum. Any comments welcome. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 2, 2021 4:42:21 GMT -5
I quote Alan's words" Wisdom cries in the streets, does wisdom cry, like a woman weeping?? wisdom built her house ?
Gen 1:2 - H7306 רוּחַ ruwach (roo'-ach) v. (WHM) @-nc-f-s-c @: Hebrew origin, nc: noun-common, f:feminine, s:singular (LXX) G4151 - πνεῦμα - f:feminine, s:singular
(google) Where does the word Shekinah come from? From the Hebrew word שׁכִינה (shekhinah) meaning "God's manifested glory" or "God's presence". This word does not appear in the Bible, but later Jewish scholars used it to refer to the dwelling place of God, especially the Temple in Jerusalem.
(google) What is meant by God's presence? Divine presence, presence of God, Inner God, or simply presence is a concept in religion, spirituality, and theology that deals with the ability of a god to be "present" with human beings.
(google) presence of God The presence of God has come to be known as shekhinah . The word comes from the Hebrew word for 'presence'. Jews believe that they can experience God's presence when they are praying together or discussing the Torah
God (male) the Father remains on His throne – it is the female spirit of God – the Holy Spirit – that radiates from God and moves upon the waters – or among the people – the Word with God
She is known by many names – Holy Spirit, Sophia (wisdom) the Goddess of Wisdom NAMES DON’T MATTER – it is all the same Spirit – the Spirit of God – the Holy Spirit
cry.... YES – The HS weeps for mankind (Rom 8) - very feminine – mom – the womb of creation and God regrets – making mankind (Gen 6)
The Hebrew word wisdom is feminine, the verb is also feminine, the lift up is also feminine and the voice, a masculine term is meant to be feminine singular. NO – the speaker of the voice = masculine = God the speaker of the word - the word is feminine
Pr 8:1 ¶ Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice? (KJV)
This is translated correctly because masculine word "voice" has to have a pronoun with the feminine Hebrew word and verb, hence "her voice" is correct. Masculine voice – spoke via the HS (Wisdom) God at distance
While Dave and Rob may not agree to the nature of elohiym powers, (1) as one strong authority with three expressions (Dave's view) or (2) three strong authorities as different personalities of love, but one GOD (Rob's view).
So which one of your multiple god id God and don’t foget you other god satan Just how many gods do you have in your pantheon?
There is only ONE TRUE GOD
Another diversion – answer some questions
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 13:11:06 GMT -5
Well maybe these verses challenges your modalism view Dave....
have you not considered the Bible Hebrew Hub analysis I posted for you?
This is translated correctly because masculine word "voice" has to have a pronoun with the feminine Hebrew word and verb, hence "her voice" is correct.
Your application that the masculine voice of the Father often flows via the medium of the HS is correct.
But the sentence must conform to the grammar of the feminine case.
I will stick to the tread, and why Alan Horvath insists that there is nothing feminine here in this context.
Perhaps you could answer the question too. Why is there a masculine and feminine expression of GOD? I can answer the question, but logically you cannot, if you say GOD is only cardinally one Person.
And why would Alan, professing to speak and understand Hebrew ignore the feminine expressions altogether?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 3, 2021 5:47:08 GMT -5
Perhaps you could answer the question too. Why is there a masculine and feminine expression of GOD? I can answer the question, but logically you cannot, if you say GOD is only cardinally one Person.
Why should I answer you – you certainly do not feel obligated to answer my questions All you do is attack me – attack scripture – attack Christianity – and you mock the basic precepts of Christianity
Just how many gods do you worship?
I know who you are
Months after discussing my videos at length - I discover you never even watched them You are a serious student - but are not willing to share the band width - or purchase a recognised study tool
Its not worth it - at your degree of seriousness
I will stick to the tread, and why Alan Horvath insists that there is nothing feminine here in this context.
I did not have to watch your video - we have discussed this a length but - you are discussing it again - in circular fashion - because it does not fit your doctrine
The Holy Spirit is the female expression of God - God at distance Get that - HS = God and in a male centric world / culture - it is disrespectful to call God an it or a she
God the Father - is beyond man comprehension He is not male or female – he is androgynous – He is neither – He is both His Spirit is the feminine expression of Him His form that we see is Christ – the masculine expression of Him
But we call Him – Him because of the respect dictated by Jewish culture Because Christ – the form we can see and interact with is God – and Christ is male
But you deny all of this - therefore you are confuse as are blocked from grasping his meaning
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2021 16:10:08 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, Happy Sabbath You see the Father as both masculine and feminine, the feminine expression is the work of the HS, and the masculine expression is the work of Jesus on earth, hence you see GOD as cardinally one person and one being, ONE GOD. I see the Father expressing mostly ahab love, the love that provides, a masculine love a Provider, the Shadday is another divine personality shows mostly feminine love, ahabuh, the love of a Responder, and another divine one an only Son, Yashuah who shows collective love, the love of both providing and responding, who took up humanity, adding it his divinity to save mankind from sin, thus in this divine family of GOD, I see one Godhead, ONE flow of LOVE from ONE spring, hence using the Hebrew term echad, we also see this as a unit, or ONE GOD. It is difficult to unravel the differences between these views so I will try to show you the very best way to prove to you something. In this picture are two objects before the sinner, and the two normal shadows (dark gray and light gray) but notice also a yellow shadow, this is critical in investigating. It represents filtered light, which only happens in mediums. Ps 91:1 ¶ He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. This verse says the Father (Most High) sends forth His light, but only sinners exist under the shadows of His light, under the shadow of the Shadday (HS as a medium). Now come to this verse where we see all three powers of heaven: Lu 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: Jesus is born and called Son of the Highest, the Highest is understood to mean the Father. Lu 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. There are some matters to consider here, Notice two persons of divinity come over Mary to born the Son into her, and to make this clear is the term "overshadow". The Father cannot be two expressions of the same Being, because of the way shadows are made. Overshadow and shadows require two separate objects separated in time and space, for a shadow affect to form. Science validates this idea. In another verse where two powers of divinity are named is here: Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. The He here is understood to be Jesus-YHWH, and the angel of His presence is termed and named as the Holy Spirit. But what is interesting is the love used here is ahabuh. Now I realize one can doubt this, so I mention this for you: There is no reason why both expressions of GOD cannot come over Mary at the same time, a masculine expression and a feminine expression, to do born of the SON, who you also consider a masculine expression. But we have a logical problem here? If you see GOD as ONE Person and ONE being, why are there two masculine expressions and one feminine expression? I have Ephesians 3 and Luke 1:35 that suggest family of divine powers, but you see God is an modalism way. I also have science of shadows to explain things. The expressions idea has no science lessons we can see?? Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: THis verse says we must be able to verifiy the invisible using natural object lessons, so we are all without excuse. SHalom,
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Post by Dave on Jun 5, 2021 6:20:55 GMT -5
You see the Father as both masculine and feminine, the feminine expression is the work of the HS, and the masculine expression is the work of Jesus on earth, hence you see GOD as cardinally one person and one being, ONE GOD.(1)I see the Father expressing mostly ahab love, the love that provides, a masculine love a Provider, (2)the Shadday is another divine personality shows mostly feminine love, ahabuh, (3), and another divine one an only Son, Yashuah = three different godswe also see this as a unit, or ONE GOD.You can call it a unit if you want to use a man-made term – but that term is not in scripture This is your argument against the Trinity – it is not a Biblical word – but you use a non-biblical term – that’s OK – double speaker just to opposeIt is difficult to unravel the differences between these views Sure – so confusing – One True God or a unit of three gods So confusing I say 1 – you say 3 – and you think we are saying the same thing In this picture YES – I see your three gods pictured Exo 20:4 Do not make for yourself a graven image , or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or on the earth below or in the water under the earth. Exo 20:5 Do not bow down to them, do not let anyone make you serve them. For I, Adonai your God, am a jealous God, bringing the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, Ps 91:1 This verse says the Father (Most High) sends forth His light, but only sinners exist under the shadows of His light, under the shadow of the Shadday (HS as a medium).God is ubiquitous / omnipresent Now come to this verse where we see all three powers of heaven: Lu 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: Jesus is born and called Son of the Highest, the Highest is understood to mean the Father.YES Robert – Jesus is the only begotten SonQuestion – just how many times did God Tabernacle with man in the form of a newborn baby? Answer – once - Jesus the only begotten Son YES Robert – I believe scriptureLu 1:35 There are some matters to consider here, Notice two persons of divinity come over Mary to born the Son into her, and to make this clear is the term "overshadow". YEP – the Father overshadowed Mary – but the Father never left His throne in heaven God reached out to Mary via the SpiritThe Father cannot be two expressions of the same Being, because of the way shadows are made. How many Christians go around telling God what he can and cannot do? And again – you make God something of matter and use WORDLY examples to represent God Are you telling me – that you are the only man on the planet – that does not have a feminine side? If you do – women in America will call you a chauvinistic pigOvershadow and shadows require two separate objects separated in time and space, for a shadow affect to form. God reached out to Mary via the SpiritIsa 63:9 The He here is understood to be Jesus-YHWH, and the angel of His presence is termed and named as the Holy Spirit. But what is interesting is the love used here is ahabuh. The Holy Spirit is not an angel And Christ is not an angel You insult both - ChristianIf you see GOD as ONE Person and ONE being, why are there two masculine expressions and one feminine expression? D" and what I do not understand – why you think it funny to misrepresent my views back to me R I did not do such a thing I will stick to the tread, and why Alan Horvath insists that there is nothing feminine here in this context.I did not have to watch your video - we have discussed this a lengthbut - you are discussing it again - in circular fashion - because it does not fit your doctrine The Holy Spirit is the female expression of God - God at distance Get that - HS = God and in a male centric world / culture - it is disrespectful to call God an it or a she God the Father - is beyond man comprehension He is not male or female – he is androgynous – He is neither – He is both His Spirit is the feminine expression of Him His form that we see is Christ – the masculine expression of Him But we call Him – Him because of the respect dictated by Jewish culture Because Christ – the form we can see and interact with is God – and Christ is male But you deny all of this - therefore you are confuse as are blocked from grasping his meaning E = mc2 There is only one God E – it is neither male or female – it is androgynous – it is neither and both But out of respect – we call the One true God – HE out of respect for His position as Creator and Father of everything – and man is a male-centric culture One God – One expression of Male (Christ) and one expression of female (HS) If you see GOD as ONE Person and ONE being, why are there two masculine expressions and one feminine expression? D" and what I do not understand – why you think it funny to misrepresent my views back to me R I did not do such a thing I have Ephesians 3 and Luke 1:35 that suggest family of divine powers, but you see God is an modalism way. I also have science of shadows to explain things.Your shadows exist in the physical WORLD of matter – You think the LIGHT of God is just visible light from a light-bulb
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: THis verse says we must be able to verifiy the invisible using natural object lessons, so we are all without excuse.We are a 3 dimensional being – and the definition of those 3 dimension are1 – is a singularity that cannot be located – but is omnipotent and omniscient 2- is the plaar matrix that forms the base of all the multiverse – and is omnipresent 3- The 3rd dimension is the 1st expressed through the 2nd to give 3D form If you break the smallest individual particle in existence open – what do we find?3 quarks – two that are always in agreement and one always opposite Lets see – what is one of the very basic fundamental laws of energyEnergy cannot be created or destroyed (E) It can only be transmuted (m) or translated (c2) Or E=mc2 And if you smash these particles even further – what happens –their sub-components disappear into nothingness Oop! – this violates the Laws of Nature – E cannot simply appear or disappear Answer – String Theory – they do not disappear – they enter another non-corporeal dimension Therefore – they can also come from another non-corporeal dimension Nothing in science – the observable WORLD indicated three individual gods in a pantheon Everything in science points to the Trinityonce you get beyound the 8th grade
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Post by Dave on Jun 5, 2021 14:49:52 GMT -5
(wiki) Sukkot (Hebrew: סוכות or סֻכּוֹת [suˈkot], sukkōt; traditional Ashkenazi spelling: Sukkos/Succos), commonly called the Feast of Tabernacles or in some translations the Festival of Shelters,[6] and known also as the Feast of Ingathering (חג האסיף, Chag HaAsif), is a biblical Jewish holiday celebrated on the 15th day of the seventh month, Tishrei (varies from late September to late October).
I knew Jews in High School who use this holiday to go camping – tabernacle in a tent
(wiki –cont)The holiday lasts seven days in the Land of Israel and eight in the diaspora. The first day (and second day in the diaspora) is a Shabbat-like holiday when work is forbidden. This is followed by intermediate days called Chol Hamoed, when certain work is permitted. The festival is closed with another Shabbat-like holiday called Shemini Atzeret
Notice – Shabbat + a week of remembrance + Shabbat Why two celebrations? Why two Holy Days? Why two Shabbats? Ask a Jew – he will say it is because God Tabernacled twice with man Once in a Tent and once in a Temple
A Messianic Jew will say – once in a building and once in a man
God incarnate
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 16:45:01 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
D"Are you telling me – that you are the only man on the planet – that does not have a feminine side? R "Yes you are right. gender males do show ahabuh, and gender females can show ahab, but my point is gender males are mostly providers (ahab) and gender females are mostly responders (ahabuh).
R"Overshadow and shadows require two separate objects separated in time and space, for a shadow affect to form. D" God reached out to Mary via the Spirit R" I guess you can say that, but the text says it differently
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: You are saying ONE being came upon Mary, and the power of the Father came only as a overshadow power via the HS? I agree it could say that,
but also it can be saying: (since the word born is also used, and in born you require two parental powers)
The ONE being came over Mary via the Medium, but TWO personalities of love were present to born the SON of GOD into Mary, these personalities of Elohiym are the Father and the Shadday.
D" The Holy Spirit is not an angel And Christ is not an angel You insult both - Christian R I am amazed how you read the text, but you do not read the proper Hebrew words under the English. The word translated 'angel' is malak, which is messenger, not angel.
So let's get this right shall we
The Holy Spirit is a messenger for the Father And Christ is is a messenger for the Father I do not insult neither the HS or the Son.
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D" God the Father - is beyond man comprehension He is not male or female – he is androgynous – He is neither – He is both His Spirit is the feminine expression of Him His form that we see is Christ – the masculine expression of Him R" What you present here is modal-ism, many Christians respect trinity, and this means the 3 divine persons as one being, ie one God.
It says very plainly in Genesis, 1:26 Let "US" make man.
Who is "US"... only the Gnostic writings write US as a Father creating with angelic help, hence US,
but this violates the "image of elohiym" how can divinity be an image with creatures, and creatures cannot create?
It obviously points to other divine Beings, as a Family of Creators. Angels are not creators.
If your modal-ism idea was true, the Adam should carry the XY genes of personality, and the woman should carry the same genes of personality, the XY also, but this is not so.
By placing a doubling of the XX into the other genetic clone, the woman is missing a Y expression, and thus one type of loving dominates over the other type of loving.
This creates two unique personalities of loving, but in marriage are considered one flesh.
Again your Gnostic writings violate the torah so much... the HS created with her usual consort, is my friend an impossibility, and YOU are the one who has multiple gods, not me.
It is not possible for any member of the divine Family to create independently. God is a battery and inside the battery are three components of power, that require relational loving in order to make LOVE function as one. Only in a sinful world have we violated this principle of love. We assume we can love on our own.
D"There is only one God E – it is neither male or female – it is androgynous – it is neither and both R Not what my Scriptures say... It says the Eloah is known in the NT as a Father, Ab, or Provider of Love, this is ahab or agape.
Ephesians 3:15,16 speaks of elohiyhm as a family, with new names.
D"And if you smash these particles even further – what happens – their sub-components disappear into nothingness Oop! – this violates the Laws of Nature – E cannot simply appear or disappear Answer – String Theory – they do not disappear – they enter another non-corporeal dimension Therefore – they can also come from another non-corporeal dimension
Nothing in science – the observable WORLD indicated three individual gods in a pantheon Everything in science points to the Trinity once you get beyond the 8th grade
R" There is a text for this endeavour
Ps 131:1 LORD, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. 2 Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child. 3 Let Israel hope in the LORD from henceforth and for ever. (KJV)
We remain as children grafted into a Family in heaven growing in the 8th grade. I prefer that. You are welcome to allow science to enter and ponder mysteries too deep. I ponder the natural objects lessons that are easy to fathom.
D"I knew Jews in High School who use this holiday to go camping – tabernacle in a tent R Yes Feast of Tabernacles is a camping experience, a Jacobs trouble experience when we flee to the mountains, under God's care. The SDA also have a Camping in Tents Tabernacle experience once a year.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 5, 2021 22:40:46 GMT -5
D"1- stop pretending God is a physical man – that has to act like a physical manR" WHo says I do? If your modal-ism idea was true, the Adam should carry the XY genes of personality, and the woman should carry the same genes of personality, the XY also, but this is not so. By placing a doubling of the XX into the other genetic clone, the woman is missing a Y expression, and thus one type of loving dominates over the other type of loving. This creates two unique personalities of loving, but in marriage are considered one flesh. AND - you demand that God cannot be in two places at the same time – and he cannot do two different things at the same time – Again your Gnostic writings violate the torah so much... the HS created with her usual consort, is my friend an impossibility, and YOU are the one who has multiple gods, not me. You pretend you do noy grasp the “Left Hand” – but invoke it when it fits your doctrine Double speaker flip flopperD"There is only one God E – it is neither male or female – it is androgynous – it is neither and both R Not what my Scriptures say... It says the Eloah is known in the NT as a Father, Ab, or Provider of Love, this is ahab or agape. OH – I see it doesn’t have anything to do with the cultural correctness as I said God is the Father – therefore He has to be male R" There is a text for this endeavor - Ps 131:1 LORD, Is a copout you employ whenever your theology fails D"I knew Jews in High School who use this holiday to go camping – tabernacle in a tent R Yes Feast of Tabernacles is a camping experience, a Jacobs trouble experience when we flee to the mountains, under God's care. The SDA also have a Camping in Tents Tabernacle experience once a year.Why would a Christian cult celebrate God tabernacling with man – if Jesus Christ was not God?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 16:00:38 GMT -5
D" AND - you demand that God cannot be in two places at the same time – and he cannot do two different things at the same time –
Nothing wrong in theory presenting such a theory Dave, but there is no support for such a theory from Scripture, none whatsoever.
And going on the balance of probabilities, it is more likely that elohiym powers are a family of divinity, which for the fourth time I have written makes Yashuah a divine person as the Father in heaven in heaven is a divine person. So yes Jesus is God. But your modalism says Jesus is the Father expressing a masculine form on earth. This is not correct.
The biggest logical stupidity with this theory is why would a masculine expression pray and support by faith the same masculine expression in heaven, if both entities are the same source of power and body? It also say Jesus is a mediator, you cannot make an expression of the same power and source of that same power and source as an medium or even a mediator. I mean a mediator is a messenger, who carries the message of sinners from a ra place to the Father who is sinless and lives on in a tov place. This make logical absurdness if the Father is carrying the sin of sinners, atoning for those sins himself and than carries the sin of sinners to Himself across the earth into heaven.
Why have a medium carrying sin and sinners, if the Father can do all this work directly?
I mean mediums are able to diminish the Father's powers of light so sinners can endure the Father's presence, but how is this possible if the Father is doing this Himself? Is the Father able to make an expression that is entirely passive such as a feminine spirit, while the masculine expression is entirely active and deals with sinners? I guess according to your theory, anything is possible with the Father right?
Well if that is the case, all things are possible with the Father, why can't the Father create a Tov only universe for mankind.
And explain the weakness within the Father, creating using his feminine expression, without the Father's masculine expression knowing? Is that even possible? How many illogical statements do you support Dave? And you say, yes the Father often does things with the right and left hand, without decisions coming from one central place?
And the worse illogical stupidity is how does a Father love? if love is relational? So the Father can love Himself? and love is able to radiate outwards and does not need any creature to respond? So with your theory creatures are required to make the Father's love relational? But that is not what Scripture says, its says elohiym is love, not that the elohiym powers love creation.
But you dismiss all my blah blah blah, you stick to the theory the one God can do anything He only likes and is. You do not require proof to your contrary theory.
So what are my list of probabilities that suggest a different elohiym power?
(1) Gen 1:26 Let "US"
who is US?
Not angels, angels cannot create? despite Gnostic writings you follow. Only Creators create?
Are they more than one Creator? Yes
Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (HS) of his mouth. (KJV)
Jesus-YHWH and HS are both Creators and both divine.
Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?
Capitals aside, The Father-YHWH is also a Creator and also divine.
Genesis 1:1 speaks of Jesus-YHWH creating, using the HS, who funnels the creative power from the Father.
(2) Gen 1:26 create mankind gender male and gender female in Elohiym's image.
Why is creation divided into two personalities of loving? ahab and ahabuh, Because the elohiym powers are obviously divided into two personalities of love, but are not of matter, time or space, but do share functional qualities of love, just as they created mankind with. Notice like Eve, a genetic clone of Adam, her loving style was different, hence elohiym members are exactly God as God is God, yet differ in the way each member loves. This makes elohiym a family of love.
(3) There are two Hebrew words for love, not one. We find evidence each member of elohiym shows mostly one kind of love above the other kind of love. This is a Hebrew fact you cannot deny.
(4) Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; Two YHWH's at the same time in two different locations in one functional activity.
In fact in Ancient Hebrew the YHWH depicts two strong authorities in the word, He exist. Hey is a letter meaning "Behold the Person"
Hence we have TentPeg Hey, the secure Person in heaven written first. AND The active hand Hey, the messenger for the Father, written second.
(5) Echad, the two in perfect marriages become ONE, a single UNIT. In fact the flesh of a woman is considered the flesh of a husband, and vice versa. See Lev 18.
(6) Lots of verses with He and Him are used. For example
Ex 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Who is this "malak", not an angel, but a messenger who pardons sin? For My name is in Him. Who is the "My" and the "Him". The Father and the Son. No other title fits.
(7) the rock that followed them were TWO rocks, not One rock.
No religion foretells of two rocks that follow Israel in the desert. Only the SDA prophet, Ellen White describes this, and only if you read her English in Hebrew, not a single SDA knows anything of this fact, that two rocks followed Israel.
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Here are both rocks:
Ps 78:15 He clave the rocks "tsuwr" in the wilderness, and gave them drink as out of the great depths. 16 He brought streams also out of the rock "cela", and caused waters to run down like rivers.
(8) Typologies. There are numerous figures, similes and poetry pictures of symbols that suggest a family of divine powers in heaven.
De 32:11 The HS as a bird caring for her birdlings as a mother cares for her young.
Ge 22:2 Father and One and only son, voluntary sacrifice on Moriah
Ephesians 3:15, 16 The family in heaven is renamed.
(9) Three names of elohiym powers in the oldest Hebrew scroll we have
eloah father also the provider ab
shadday mother also the HS medium
YHWH the He who exists, also the Son
listed numerous times in Job, but all in one passage in Job 40: 1-2
(10) Humans become children of God, with Jesus as our biological father, who redeems us with His blood. Jesus is divine but adds humanity to His divinity to save humans with biological flesh. The is proof we enter heaven and the new earth with biological bodies, the same body we have now that we entered on earth when we asked Jesus to save us. In fact Encoh entered with the same body he had, so did Elijah. 144,000 humans in the end of time walk right into heaven in the same bodies they have, perfectly sinless bodies, like Enoch has. Enoch achieved this sinless state in 300 years, while the redeemed achieve this state in 3 years.
This body eats food and walks right through solid walls. Just as prophets in vision on earth do not breathe in vision, and eat no food or water while in vision. Moses also lived on the mount without drinking water or eating food while in his biological body.
Jesus lives as god in a human body with scars over it.
Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. (KJV)
These are some of the many themes that suggest elohiym powers are a family of divine power (singular). This power flows via the Most High Provider (the ab). Hence there is only cardinally one source of love.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 11, 2021 10:52:58 GMT -5
D" AND - you demand that God cannot be in two places at the same time – and he cannot do two different things at the same time – Nothing wrong in theory presenting such a theory Dave, but there is no support for such a theory from Scripture, none whatsoever.Psa 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? Psa 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. Psa 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Psa 139:10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. (RIGHT HAND) Jer 23:24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD. And going on the balance of probabilities, it is more likely that elohiym powers are a family of divinity, I’ll just stick to scriptureJoh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The biggest logical stupidity with this theory is why would a masculine expression pray and support by faith the same masculine expression in heavenHey Christian – it is call the Gospel message It unfolded for man – written to man – to save man No one has it worse / or had it worse than Jesus Christ And the message / precept / principle taught = not the will of the Son of Man, but the Will of the Father Even Jesus could not escape Mortal Death – as all men cannot escape Mortal Death This is a basic Christian Principle if both entities are the same source of power and body? It also say Jesus is a mediator, you cannot make an expression of the same power and source of that same power and source as an medium or even a mediator. I mean a mediator is a messenger, who carries the message Correct – the Spirit is God at distance – moving among the people and is called the feminine shekinah This make logical absurdness if the Father is carrying the sin of sinners, atoning for those sins himself ISN'T that AMAZING – so precious and special – the Creator of the entire multi-verse cares enough for me to come as a man – to suffer as a man – and to die as a man so that all men can see for themselves that – Jesus was the Christ / Messiah / Savior / God – AND – the afterlife is real and we have an obvious choiceIsa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation! I will trust and will not be afraid. For the Lord Adonai is my strength and my song. He also has become my salvation.” Why have a medium carrying sin and sinners, Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. if the Father can do all this work directly?Joh 1:1 … the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Father Creator never leave His throne empty – there is no time ever that God leave His throne But – He expends His presence vis His Spirit that radiates from Him – this is the base of all reality / the ether of the ALL – God’s Spirit is Holy = HS and he/it/she is ubicqudus / omnipresent / everywhere
Therefore – God the Father never leaves His throne – but there is no where you can hide from Him – because His Spirit s omnipresentWell if that is the case, all things are possible with the Father, why can't the Father create a Tov only universe for mankind.He absolutely doesEcc 3:1 For everything there is a season and a time for every activity under heaven: And explain the weakness within the Father, creating using his feminine expression, without the Father's masculine expression knowing? Is that even possible? How many illogical statements do you support Dave? There is nothing that God does not knowHowever – you have two creators – two gods – one for tov and one for raJudaism does not – THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD who does everything Some of the things God does are obviously tov to man – creation, love, forgiveness, deliverance Scripture says these things are of the Right Hand
Psa 139:10 … thy right hand shall hold me Some of the things God does seem counter to tov – ra even – Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left. Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12757-right-and-leftwww.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sinister-left-dexter-right-historyThe Book of Matthew describes how God will divide nations on the Day of Judgment, “as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats; and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left,” with those on the right sent to the kingdom of Heaven and those on the left “cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.”
What to Know Sinister, today meaning evil or malevolent in some way, comes from a Latin word simply meaning "on the left side." "Left" being associated with evil likely comes from a majority of the population being right handed, biblical texts describing God saving those on the right on Judgment day, and images depicting Eve on Adam's leftProverbs 3:16 Long life is in her right hand; (salvation / eternal life) In her left hand are riches and honor. (Worldly things – the same as offered to Christ by satan – WORLD)And you say, yes the Father often does things with the right and left hand, without decisions coming from one central place?KJV Red Letter edition – words of Jesus ChristMat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: Obviously you fail to grasp the spiritual concept or Jesus Christ spoke in error I think I’ll stick with scripture and ChristAnd the worse illogical stupidity is how does a Father love? if love is relational?1- you make a false assumption – use it as fact – to argue your own false assumption2- if you love a move star and tell her so – does it mean she must love you back 3- how many parent child relationships fail to love? 4- how many marriages fails – mine and yours Correction – love is not relational – it is unrequited God loves the sinner just as much as He love the saved The saved love God back – the sinner does not
AND - you believe that your satan hates God – how is that a love relationship?So the Father can love Himself? STOP THIS – what does this mean?and love is able to radiate outwards YES – as the HSand does not need any creature to respond?Does God need anything? NODoes a rock love God back? – no God loves the rock A painter paints a beautiful painting – a masterpiece Does the painting love the artist back – no Does the artist love his painting – sure God created a beautiful masterpiece – God loves His creation - God is love So with your theory creatures are required to make the Father's love relational?The Prodigal Son is the one rewarded – because his love was genuine, of his own Free Will, by his own choice – no one force him to love God back – it was his MITZAH (1) Gen 1:26 Let "US" - who is US?Jews say – The male and the female in a duality Christians say – the duality is actually a Trinity The Gnostics say - The Trinity and whoever else God used as a tool Not angels, angels cannot create? despite Gnostic writings you follow. Only Creators create?Gnostic literature – or Enoch never suggest that angels or archon create They can only build with matterI do not have a problem with some child suggesting God made the rocks and told an angel to stack them up to make a mountain Enoch – a Jewish Temple Scroll before and during the time of Christ speaks of many angels assigned specific roles within creation Stoking the furnace of the stars Maintaining the orbit of the heavenly bodies Pouring out the rain – guarding prisoners – keeping records – etc etc None of this diminished God – instead it just illuminated how very viable and active the spirit realms are These are some of the many themes that suggest elohiym powers are a family of divine power (singular). This power flows via the Most High Provider (the ab). Hence there is only cardinally one source of love.Correct Robert – there is ONLY ONE GODJoh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He is the Father – he is the Spirit – he is God incarnate (Christ) No man can see the face of the father – but we can experience the Glory of the father – and see his formExo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2021 16:54:52 GMT -5
Happy SHabat Dave
D" Hey Christian – it is call the Gospel message It unfolded for man – written to man – to save man No one has it worse / or had it worse than Jesus Christ And the message / precept / principle taught = not the will of the Son of Man, but the Will of the Father Even Jesus could not escape Mortal Death – as all men cannot escape Mortal Death This is a basic Christian Principle
R" You should write this as in your theory: Hey Christian – it is call my Gospel theory It unfolded for man – written to man – to save man No one has it worse / or had it worse than the Father And the message / precept / principle taught = not the will of the Son of Man, but the Will of the Father Even the Father could not escape Mortal Death – as all men cannot escape Mortal Death This is a basic Christian Principle
R" SO if the Father expression could not escape Mortal Death, how did the Father expression raise Himself? From the other Father expression of course?
Something wrong with your twisting of Scripture:
Ex 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Who is "MY" and who is "HIM" ?
Let me guess
Ex 23:21 Beware of my expression, and obey my voice, provoke my expression not; for my expression will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in my expression of myself.
Somehow the text does not say that.
And who is the messenger of YHWH ? (not an angel)
Angels cannot pardon sins, only divinity can.
D"Correct – the Spirit is God at distance – moving among the people and is called the feminine shekinah R If the Father is the FATHER at a distance, moving among the people, why does the Father move into the Father as a medium, to channel the Father to the people at a distance?
Because the Father would destroy sinners and sinning if He tried to do this. Hence a medium prevents this. Do you understand what a medium is and how a medium works?
Do you understand that mediums make virtual rays of light which are diminished in size.
Hence mediums can reach sinning without destroying the sinning.
A direct approach by the Father is not able to achieve this.
Hence my view, the Bibles view, is the HS is an independent member of divinity who channels the Father's power through the HS as a medium, allowing natural principles of the medium to function normally, so humans understand GOD working as a mystery.
"– the Spirit is God at distance – moving among the people and is called the feminine shekinah" Your words say it, but offer no science to test your theory, hence is not valid...
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
There has to be science lessons so this verse is declared true and none are without excuse.
I have science lessons, but you ignore them. The HS functions as a medium.
The Father cannot function as a medium and at the same time be the Father who channels His own power through Himself as a medium. I have seen no logical science experiments to validate this idea. Hence your theory is not validated.
D"The Father Creator never leave His throne empty – there is no time ever that God leave His throne But – He expends His presence vis His Spirit that radiates from Him – this is the base of all reality / the ether of the ALL – God’s Spirit is Holy = HS and he/it/she is ubicqudus / omnipresent / everywhere
Therefore – God the Father never leaves His throne – but there is no where you can hide from Him – because His Spirit s omnipresent R" It's a nice theory Dave, the Father is secure on his throne. Correct.
The Father's power is everywhere, as zero point energy, Correct.
The Father sends expressions of Himself, who can talk, moan, cry and walk, even die on a Cross, so save sinners from sinning. The Father can be His own media, His own medium, His own expression as feminine or masculine.
It's a nice theory, but where is the evidence and the science object lessons for this theory?
(1) Overshadow and shadows
(you cannot make shadows from light only) You require other objects.
Hence your father expression that blocks the Father's light, to make shadows is nice, but you essentially have two father persons, expressed from the one father being. Possible I suppose, but not anything like in on our world of creation.
(2) Born process
(You have the Father and the Father doing the born process of the Father in Mary. While two expressions are mentioned, in fact three expressions are present in Luke 1:35)
(3) Elohiyhm is described in family pictures
This happens in Job, and Ephesians 3:15,16. You ignore this and similes of pictures, such as Abram and Son as a simile of Father and SOn. A Son is a messenger of the Father's love.
(4) Love can be personalized as masculine love and feminine love, but from the same uncaused cause. Both genders have both styles of loving, but one gender does one style more than the other style. Love is required in two or more personalities so the loving is relational. But you ignore this.
Summary: . I must see logical science experiments to validate your idea. Hence your theory is not validated. Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Hence you offer no science experiments for these four points I raise.
D "However – you have two creators – two gods – one for tov and one for ra Judaism does not – THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD who does everything R" Again you are bogged down in details.... where does sinning come from Dave? Who actually does the sinning? God or the creature?
HOw is sinning allowed by GOD if GOD is sinless and hates sinning?
So where does the sinning come from that the sinner sees?
The Father has to create the sinning RA so the sinner sees his sinning. The is NOT something the FATHER would normally do. But does Because the Father is kind.
The sinning therefore comes from you the sinner, not the Father who creates the sin effect. Just because the father creates RA, does not make the Father , a provider of RA.
Since sinning began first with some creature sinning, God makes that creature into a "provider of sinning" to which He is held accountable for that sinning. This is why judgement comes from sinning.
So which creature did the very first sinning in the universe of GOD?
And angel cherub did. (hence why these sinning angels have not died yet)
Not humans. We sinned second. (Hence why humans die from our sinning)
D" Judaism does not – THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD who does everything Some of the things God does are obviously tov to man – creation, love, forgiveness, deliverance Scripture says these things are of the Right Hand
Psa 139:10 … thy right hand shall hold me
Some of the things God does seem counter to tov – ra even –
Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things.
R" How can humans respond to a God of love, if God is also a murderer, a liar, and a cheat, who also does sinning of His own? You say GOD commanded the murder of many, thousands even, but a department does the killing not God himself. I do not buy that, if a department is under GOD, than God is a killer of living creatures. Are you sure this is a saving God for you to follow?
Lu 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. Joh 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. (KJV)
If Satan enters a human, to possess the mind and do actions using the human, than Satan is controlling the human, ruling him completely. What does Satan do in Judas, He makes Jesus killed on a cross cruelly. If that is not one power opposing another power, I don't know what is.
Lu 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you,
Again why does Satan desire to have Peter?
Again you mock saying Peter is a satan, the text does not say that...
Greek 1809 Used once, bother.
Greek 154
Mt 27:58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus
Maybe Satan has to ask first from GOD before GOD allows Satan to rule humans. After all GOD is always controlling this sinning problem with Satan, the provider of sin.
D"jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12757-right-and-left
In the lavatory the left hand is used to keep the right free from uncleanness (Ber. 49a).
R Interesting rule. Never knew that. Other Jewish material is interesting indeed.
D"Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
Obviously you fail to grasp the spiritual concept or Jesus Christ spoke in error I think I’ll stick with scripture and Christ
R I see. So the creative act of the left hand creating a ra creature was OK to the father? Hmm? OK, it's your theory, at least you have a verse to back up some things.
D"if you love a move star and tell her so – does it mean she must love you back
If a being provides providings and no creature responds, than nothing happens.
Hence why the wages of not responding to love is death.
Ho 11:7 And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him. 8 ¶ How shall I give thee up, Ephraim?
Can love keep allowing the sinner to keep on living for eternity? Absolutely not.
If the loving is not responded to, the wages of not responding to love is death, non existence.
D"Correction – love is not relational – it is unrequited God loves the sinner just as much as He love the saved The saved love God back – the sinner does not
AND - you believe that your satan hates God – how is that a love relationship?
R DO you have a Hebrew term for this "saved human" ? I do not know any such term.
Ec 8:12 Though a sinner <chata'> do <`asah> evil <ra`> an hundred times <me'ah>, Lu 15:7 I say <lego> unto you <humin>, that <hoti> likewise <houto> joy <chara> shall be <esomai> in <en> heaven <ouranos> over <epi> one <heis> sinner <hamartolos> that repenteth <metanoeo>, 1Pe 4:18 And <kai> if <ei> the righteous <dikaios> scarcely <molis> be saved <sozo>, where <pou> shall <phaino> the ungodly <asebes> and <kai> the sinner <hamartolos> appear <phaino>?
The only term used is "chata" the same term for "missing". Hamartolos is the Greek for chata in Hebrew. So where is your "saved human" term in Scripture?
D"Correction – love is not relational – it is unrequited R" SO God will save all the humans than, does not require them to love God back? The sinning world will keep on living forever? SO why do the humans die than?
Corrected term "D God loves the wicked just as much as He love the sinner The sinner love God back – the wicked does not
R This might be true, but does GOD love the sinning the Wicked do?
What is sinning anyhow? It is failing to respond to love.
But you say love is unrequited? SO it doesn't matter if you miss that loving, God is still pouring our your living... Are you sure you are right?
So if I kill others, eat and drink blood, rape and pillage, my living is just as long and of quality as the straight person who responds to God's laws of love?
I beg to differ, GOD is highly relational, and LOVE is therefore highly relational.
Read the chapter 65 of Isaiah.
Isa 65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people,
What happens to God's love of loving all day?
Isa 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
God allows it to go to others who respond to that love.
Isa 65:17 ¶ For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Those that refuse to respond to His love, are sentenced to no longer exist.
Those who respond will forget those who never responded.
Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Notice the new creation with new humans are still biology, and they respond to His loving.
Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble;
Love is always relational. One must respond continually to that love.
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
Love is always relational. One must respond continually to that love.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat.
Arrh yes the vegetarian lion, the vegetarian shark and the humble snake eats dirt.
I will stick to this chapter, the entire chapter speaks against your ideas Dave.
D"Correction – love is not relational – it is unrequited. R" Love is always relational. One must respond continually to that love.
R So the Father can love Himself? D STOP THIS – what does this mean? R It means there is something wrong with your theory of God.
D"Does a rock love God back? – no God loves the rock A painter paints a beautiful painting – a masterpiece Does the painting love the artist back – no Does the artist love his painting – sure R Again you mix terms. Love is personal, a rock is not personal. A rock cannot love God back because it lacks a free will mind to do so. The rock is not personal.
But parrots are personal creatures, do they love the Creator back? Yes
Humans even more so because we are created in His Image.
D"The Prodigal Son is the one rewarded – because his love was genuine, of his own Free Will, by his own choice – no one force him to love God back – it was his MITZAH R you think?
Lu 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Notice the steps
when he came to himself here I perish with hunger I have sinned, missed my father's love Make me a hired servant
The prodigal responded to the love he wasn't receiving, he was hungry The prodigal returned to the provider A life of missing is a downhill journey to nothingness.
Only if you respond to love providing is living uphill and continuous forever.
D"God made the rocks and told an angel to stack them up to make a mountain Ok so Jews say this and Gnostics say that. OK The "us" is duality, what does duality mean Dave?
So angels helped in Creation? That would make them "creators" or "helpers". OK
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Explain this term in Greek, "godhead". The Christian view is "us" refers to other divine members do the Creation. But you deny this?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 13, 2021 14:31:53 GMT -5
D" Hey Christian – it is call the Gospel message It unfolded for man – written to man – to save man No one has it worse / or had it worse than Jesus Christ And the message / precept / principle taught = not the will of the Son of Man, but the Will of the Father Even Jesus could not escape Mortal Death – as all men cannot escape Mortal Death This is a basic Christian Principle
R" You should write this as in your theory: Even the Father could not escape Mortal Death – as all men cannot escape Mortal Death This is a basic Christian Principle
YES - OK – Even God in carnet – as Jesus Christ the Son of man – gave his mortal body – so that all men had access to the Divine Pardon This has to be the absolute most amazing revelation of all Christians Only your particular denomination preach against this concept
R" SO if the Father expression could not escape Mortal Death, how did the Father expression raise Himself? From the other Father expression of course? Because the spirit is not biology – only biology died upon the cross – only jesus the Son of man Died upon the cross – God was poured our n- and returned to the be with Himself upon the Throne
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. The word was The word was with God And the Word was God
Angels cannot pardon sins, only divinity can. D"Correct – the Spirit is God at distance – moving among the people and is called the feminine shekinah R If the Father is the FATHER at a distance, moving among the people, why does the Father move into the Father as a medium, to channel the Father to the people at a distance? The Father doesn’t move into anything – God is spirit
Ro 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
There has to be science lessons so this verse is declared true and none are without excuse. I have science lessons, but you ignore them. The HS functions as a medium. You have 8th grade science about thing made of matter Spend some time with quantum physics – you grade school view with grow
The Father cannot function as a medium and at the same time be the Father You are the only guy I ever met claiming to be a Christian that preaches that God is not allowed
D "However – you have two creators – two gods – one for tov and one for ra Judaism does not – THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD who does everything R" Again you are bogged down in details.... where does sinning come from Dave? Who actually does the sinning? God or the creature? Again – for the MILLIONTH TIME – it all began with Eve
HOw is sinning allowed by GOD if GOD is sinless and hates sinning? Again – for the MILLIONTH TIME – God endowed man the gift of Free Will We are the creature that can choose to love God of our own choosing As you said – Love comes with a risk -= letting man go into the world is a risk But the Reward of the Prodigal Son
The Father has to create the sinning RA so the sinner sees his sinning. The is NOT something the FATHER would normally do. But does Because the Father is kind. God only creates the ra – volcanoes – tornados – and the natural cycle of life – birth – reproduce- and death followed by rebirth Eve and the rest of humanity do all the sinning
So which creature did the very first sinning in the universe of GOD? And angel cherub did. (hence why these sinning angels have not died yet) Not humans. We sinned second. (Hence why humans die from our sinning) Nice you have someone else other than yourself to blame all the sin on Not man;s fault – the satan made me do it
If Satan enters a human, to possess the mind and do actions using the human, than Satan is controlling the human, ruling him completely. What does Satan do in Judas, He makes Jesus killed on a cross cruelly. If that is not one power opposing another power, I don't know what is. Yep – not Judas – Judas the man is innocent – it was your satan that forced him Who receives punishement in your weird religion cult – satan only – or man? Why should man be punished – it is not man’s fault – if satan ruled them
D"Correction – love is not relational – it is unrequited R" SO God will save all the humans than, does not require them to love God back? The sinning world will keep on living forever? SO why do the humans die than? Corrected term "D God loves the wicked just as much as He love the sinner The sinner love God back – the wicked does not R This might be true, but does GOD love the sinning the Wicked do? So – you want to change the subject – of course God does love it – but gave man the gift of Free Will to do it
But you say love is unrequited? SO it doesn't matter if you miss that loving, God is still pouring our your living... Are you sure you are right? You just agreed – and God will still love you as you endure Proportional Punishment – and God will love you satill as he cast you into the Lake of Fire – God is Love remember D"Correction – love is not relational – it is unrequited. R" Love is always relational. One must respond continually to that love. Corrected term "D God loves the wicked just as much as He love the sinner The sinner love God back – the wicked does not Please make up your mind – you are arguing opposite position in the same post Double speaker flip flopper
R So the Father can love Himself? D STOP THIS – what does this mean? R It means there is something wrong with your theory of God. Very detailed explaition - maybe i understand your view now - what do you think academic honesty
D"The Prodigal Son is the one rewarded – because his love was genuine, of his own Free Will, by his own choice – no one force him to love God back – it was his MITZAH R you think? WHO FORCED THE PRODIGAL SON TO RETURN TO THE FATHER
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 17:54:29 GMT -5
D"This has to be the absolute most amazing revelation of all Christians Only your particular denomination preach against this concept
R" SO how does an body expression of the Father sacrifice for sins as an atonement, when you say the other Father expression cannot leave the throne in heaven with it's body that sits down?
So what can the Father make two bodies of the Father, one body sits down in heaven, while the other body of the Father makes sacrifice for sins?
Is that what the sheep sacrificed for sin offering all about?
Two bodies of sin, both without sin, but one body is sacrificed while the other body is not?
Jews where to sacrifice their pet sheep without sin, in other words love daily one body...
How can you sacrifice a body that is not living on the earth, as a sheep, if that body lives in heaven, while the same body, or part of the body lives on earth and can be loved?
So not all the body of Father lives on earth to be loved before being sacrificed?
What about texts that say nobody has seen the Father's shape?
D" Because the spirit is not biology – only biology died upon the cross – R" I see only biology sins, not the spirit sins, when you sin? Is that it?
If the spirit also sins when you sin Dave, than there has to be a sacrifice for the spirit also?
SO tell me does the spirit in man sin when the man sinned?
D" The Father doesn’t move into anything – God is spirit R Hang on Dave, the text does not say that... you are a Greek expert, why do you make such an error?
Joh 4:24 God <theos> {is} a Spirit <pneuma>:
The Greek suggests a Hebrew construct state, two nouns side by side, elohiym ruwach.
Ruwach Elohiym is translated as "spirit of God"
But what do we do with
Elohiym Ruwach ?
and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Elohiym functions as Medium, and they that worship the Father must worship the Father via the Medium of the HS, and in truth.
Is this a fair Greek assessment?
D" You have 8th grade science about thing made of matter Spend some time with quantum physics – you grade school view with grow R" You violate Scripture
Ps 131:1 ¶ <<A Song of degrees of David.>> LORD, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me.
Jesus quoted "lost coin" "sowing seeds" "parable of Mutard seed" etc, etc.
Nothing too hard for the common person.
D" You are the only guy I ever met claiming to be a Christian that preaches that God is not allowed R " OK explain to me how the Father can tolerate sinning sinners without destroying the sinner by the brightness of the Father's sinless presence?
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Answer the question please?
D" Again – for the MILLIONTH TIME – it all began with Eve R" SO EVE was the first creature to have sinned?
So the serpent never sinned to Eve getting Eve to sin?
"Thou shalt not surely die" ? What did this serpent actually say than Dave?
Please explain, so I see the words are 100% truthful?
Because my understanding humans do die? So something or someone lied first, and it wasn't Eve.
D" Love comes with a risk -= letting man go into the world is a risk R" You paint the picture that LOVE requires risk and RA and temptations from archons?
I would say no. SIN is not a offshoot of love, SIN is missing love. In other words loving GOD is all you can do. There is no other choice.
The other choice was invented, created by GOD, because some creature sinned or wanted to sin, long before humans existed, hence GOD allowed for this choice. But you say only humans were the first to ever sin. Sorry you miss reading Scripture.
D" God only creates the ra – volcanoes – tornados – and the natural cycle of life – birth – reproduce- and death followed by rebirth R I beg to differ. One day in the new creation, rocks will appear not from volcanoes. No ra exists in the next creation. You have this totally wrong.
D" Nice you have someone else other than yourself to blame all the sin on Not man;s fault – the satan made me do it
R Nice you have someone else other than yourself to blame all the sin on Not man's fault – GOD made me do it
Your idea is worse than mine, you blame GOD for making me sin, and making me experience RA.
Archons will say, I didn't want to be RA creatures, GOD made me that way...
Humans will say, GOD made both tov and ra in me, not my fault if I choose RA all the time.
You have a blame game as much as you make claim on me.
God doesn't accept excuses for sin... you are accountable for sin, not some other being.
D" Who receives punishment in your weird religion cult – satan only – or man? Why should man be punished – it is not man’s fault – if satan ruled them R Man is judged because Man allows Satan to rule over him. God is more powerful than Satan, so allowing GOD to rule over us, makes the other ruler go away.
Is there a text for this idea?
Mt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
And of the judgement
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
The left hand are goat humans ruled by Satan and his angels, all choosing sin
The right hand are sheep humans, ruled by Jesus and his angels, all wanting a sinless state.
Rob posted "
Notice the steps
when he came to himself here I perish with hunger I have sinned, missed my father's love Make me a hired servant
The prodigal responded to the love he wasn't receiving, he was hungry The prodigal returned to the provider A life of missing is a downhill journey to nothingness.
Only if you respond to love providing is living uphill and continuous forever.
But Dave posted "
WHO FORCED THE PRODIGAL SON TO RETURN TO THE FATHER
Rob replies"
Can't you write lovingly from my words? SO brief and so sharp?
First love is not a force
May answer is already written before " The prodigal responded to the love he wasn't receiving, he was hungry
Secondly the prodigal was responding the love he wasn't receiving, he was hungry
Hunger is the fruit of missing love.
Love is food that fills. Missing love is about hunger.
Missing love causes hunger, cold, darkness and eventually non-existence.
Since the HS resides with the prodigal, the HS together with the human mind repenting, both returned to the Provider. The relationship came back.
When the relationship went away, did GOD leave the prodigal? NO When the relationship returned, did GOD leave the prodigal? NO
So what changed in the relationship? Only a loss of love.
That is called missing love, or sin.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jun 14, 2021 9:03:27 GMT -5
R" SO how does an body expression of the Father sacrifice for sins as an atonement, when you say the other Father expression cannot leave the throne in heaven with it's body that sits down? So what can the Father make two bodies of the Father, one body sits down in heaven, while the other body of the Father makes sacrifice for sins? God is not a man - God is not biology - God is uncomprehendable according to scripture Your disrespect for God is showing through
D" Because the spirit is not biology – only biology died upon the cross – R" I see only biology sins, not the spirit sins, when you sin? Is that it? SO tell me does the spirit in man sin when the man sinned? I am sorry that your 8th grade version of event doesn’t work for you You deny the spirit - therefore you cannot tell the difference between angry and praising the lord
D" The Father doesn’t move into anything – God is spirit R Hang on Dave, the text does not say that... you are a Greek expert, why do you make such an error?
Joh 4:24 God <theos> {is} a Spirit <pneuma>: The Greek suggests a Hebrew construct state, two nouns side by side, elohiym ruwach. Sorry Robert - the Greek says God is spirit - learn to translate
and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. You evidently refuse to worship Him in spirit - or have a relationship with Him spirit to spirit You just preach daily ritual worship and misrepresent scripture to others - I know who you are
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Answer the question please? 1- your God is love only - your God can do no ra - this verse must be error for you 2- Your God is not spirit - there is no such thing as spirit - this verse must be error for you 3- and you God is not allowed to destroy - that is a ra - this verse must be error for you
D" Again – for the MILLIONTH TIME – it all began with Eve R" SO EVE was the first creature to have sinned? So the serpent never sinned to Eve getting Eve to sin? Why do you deny scripture? - Scripture says the serpent deceived
"Thou shalt not surely die" ? What did this serpent actually say than Dave? Please explain, so I see the words are 100% truthful? The serpent said NOT (die present tense + also die future tense) Because my understanding humans do die? present tense - as a mortal - as biology but what of future tense - evidently you deny salvation / the Divine pardon Because my understanding humans do die (future tense in the Lake of Fire) Now you preach against salvation and the promise of eternal life
D" Love comes with a risk -= letting man go into the world is a risk R" You paint the picture that LOVE requires risk and RA and temptations from archons? Loves comes with a risk - your words - I use your own words - and you have a problem with your own words Obviously - you just oppose - as an opposer - I know who you are
D" God only creates the ra – volcanoes – tornados – and the natural cycle of life – birth – reproduce- and death followed by rebirth R I beg to differ. One day in the new creation, rocks will appear not from volcanoes. No ra exists in the next creation. You have this totally wrong. What is the next creation - scripture please - I am speaking about Gen 1:1
R Nice you have someone else other than yourself to blame all the sin on Not man's fault – GOD made me do it Your idea is worse than mine, you blame GOD for making me sin, and making me experience RA. Scripture says
Jer 17:10 I Adonai search the heart, I try the mind,…..
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
Truth - Gen 3:15 is God’s Plan for man Truth - God tests man - God puts man to the test - God places man in the Contest—in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not. (Deut 8:2)
God does not make you sin Robert - God gave you Free Will to choose sin
God doesn't accept excuses for sin... you are accountable for sin, not some other being. Then what is all this crap about being ruled by satan Your theology - as you present it = you are ruled by God or you are ruled by satan - only two rulers There is no you - there is nothing inside you except the HS You your satan rules your HS Now you deny your own words flip flop man
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: You deny the left hand of God - your God is only right handed - the hand of tov
WHO FORCED THE PRODIGAL SON TO RETURN TO THE FATHER Rob replies" Can't you write lovingly from my words? SO brief and so sharp? First love is not a force
Then answer the question - instead of - blah blah blah - The answer is simply - the prodigal Son choose to love God by his own Free Will Is that too complicated for you to grasp? Or are you just unwilling to acknowledge scripture as a Christian
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