Post by Dave on Aug 1, 2020 15:03:13 GMT -5
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before (H5921) me.
Short simple sentence – what does before mean?
H5921- עַל - ‛al - Properly the same as H5920 used as a preposition (in the singular or plural, often with prefix, or as conjugation with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications: - above, according to (-ly), after, (as) against, among, and, X as, at, because of, beside (the rest of), between, beyond the time, X both and, by (reason of), X had the charge of, concerning for, in (that), (forth, out) of, (from) (off), (up-) on, over, than, through (-out), to, touching, X with.
Thou shalt have no other gods (against) me.
Thou shalt have no other gods before (above or over) me.
Thou shalt have no other gods before (had the charge of) me.
Do your own word study
How can you have and angel / ‘other god’ against / opposing God?
How can you have an angel ‘other god’ above or over God?
How can you have an ‘other god’ that changes God’s plan?
From God we came - and to God we return
Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew (H3045) you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
H3045 – יָדַע - yâda‛ - A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively instruction, designation, punishment, etc.): - acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, for a certainty, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to, let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot.
Tell me this is future reference – explain how the verb here is improperly translated as simple past tense
Some suggest– this could meant something like –
God knew what you would be like (future perfect tense)
If this was Greek – in the way I was taught to translate
Without having any idea of what it said before I started
When = Before God made us in the womb –before we are conciebed
Who = God
Verb = knew – past tense
What = you
What does knew imply – pasted tense
In the past – God (to know in the past)- properly to ascertain by seeing, including observation, care, recognition; and causatively instruction, designation, punishment, etc. – acknowledge (gnosis), acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to, let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge (gnosis), have [knowledge] (gnosis), (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, perceive, privy to regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding] (gnosis)
God knew us – we were in full awareness of one another, we acknowledged one another, we were kinfolk, we perceived and were taught, knowledge, and understanding.
In the past – before conception
YES! I am reading some bias into my translation to promote a pro-Jewish view
This is why I love reading Rabbinic literature
A Christian might say – it means X and that’s that – no discussion – means only one thing
Rabbinic literature always discuss the FIVE most popular Rabbibic views
Possibly – your view is one of those views
BUT the predominate view = From God we Come – and to God We Return
We existed before the Body
Separate study Man's soul
Einstein is a man look up at God and says E = mc2 – E = visible + invisible
God is above – looking down at creation and says – God = invisible + visible
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image,
What is the image of God – a duality of God = invisible Spirit HS + visible matter Christ
God = Spirit + 3D image
Man also = insisible + visible
Man = Spirit + 3D image
The 3D image = a ‘living creature’ (Mind/Body) energized by the Nephesh – as with all living creatures agreed (Nephesh / Body)
And this image ‘living creature’ comes in a duality of sexes – male and female as with animals - most animals anyway
Agreed
YES! This Nephesh is from the HS – in more mays then one
E through the HS energizes the sub-atomic world →physics→chemistyr→biology→Body
E also energises the Nephesh through the HS→Body = (Nephesh/Body) = animals with consciousness
In my world that is both – beast – cave man – and the lineage of Adam
But Adam was the first homo-sapien – us – and Gen 2:7 - God→Adam
What did God breath into Adam in 2:7
We are different than just the animals = we are (Spirit + (Nephesh/Body))
And I use Gen 2:7 as my reference – man is different – God breathed into man
Nowhere else in scripture goes God breath into another ‘living creature’
The translators of the LXX – the top Egyptian Jewish Scholars of their day - 250BC
Choice their worse as wisely as they could - the KJV relies heavily on one single version of the LXX
Called the Textus Receptus – but here is an obvious difference with the KJV
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living(H2416) creature
H2416 – חַי – chay - From H2421; alive;
H5315 – נֶפֶשׁ – nephesh
OK for living creatures – no real difference
But for man
Gen 1:26 (KJV) And God said, Let us make man (H120)
H120 – אָדָם - 'âdâm
Gen 1:26 (LXX) καὶ ὁ θεός Ποιήσωμεν ἄνθρωπον
And THE God (καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεός) - said, Let us make (Ποιήσωμεν (4160)) – man (ἄνθρωπον (G444))
G4160 - Ποιήσωμεν – Verb - Aorist, Active, Indicative, 3rd person, singular of G4160 – ποιέω
Tense: Aorist – meaning ‘it happened’ no doubt
Voice: Active - The active voice describes a sentence where the subject performs the action stated by the verb. ... In fact, sentences constructed in the active voice add impact to your writing
Mood: Indicative - The indicative mood is used to make factual statements.
Person: third [he/she/it]
Number: Singular
G4160 – ποιέω - Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield.
God – Himself – deliberately -
(Made – appointed – banded together – casted out – lightened the ship – ordained – perfomed – provided - have purged – purposed - rose up – shot out)
- Man (G444)
G444 - ἄνθρωπος - anthrōpos - From G435 ἀνήρ and G3708 ὤψ (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, a human being: - man.
G435 - ἀνήρ - A primary word (compare G444); a man
G3708 - ὁράω - Properly to stare at (compare G3700), that is, (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension to attend to; by Hebraism to experience; passively to appear: - behold, perceive, see, take heed.
Man = Adam = H120 = G444 = G435+G3708
A man-faced animal that is able to discern clearly – perceive – see - and take heed of God
The Rabbi say – we are the creature that can choose
Look at this verb G4160
God - banded together - ordained - provided - and purposed - man
Soul + Mind/Body = human being - ordained, provided, and purposed - 'our mission'
God aslo - cast out - lightened the ship - purged - and shot out - man
From heaven to earth - from God and heaven we come - into animal at conception
ordained with the mission to - 1 remember and 2 reveal God's Glory to the world
Gen 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living (H2416) soul (5315).
H2416 chay - alive;
H5315 - nephesh
Man = (an alive + (nephesh/Body))
Gen 2:7 … καὶ ἐγένετο (G1096) ὁ ἄνθρωπος εἰς ψυχὴν (G5590) ζῶσαν (G2198).
G1096 – γίνομαι – ginomai- A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be (“gen” -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being)
G5590 – ψυχή - psuchē - breath, that is, (by implication) spirit,
G2198 – ζάω - zaō - A primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively): - life (-time), (a-) live (-ly), quick.
And the human being – became – a living spirit
But spirit are heavenly beings with no form – now trapped within a locality our spirit is now our soul
Man = (Soul + (Mind/Body))
At the end - why are there 2 deaths?
Answer – one is (Mind/Body) and one is death of soul / spirit
There are two levels to your existence
We all die of our sins – yes just as Adam and Eve did – Mortal death
Animals nephesh goes to the ground
Man’s soul returns to God
Pending – a second Death
Death of soul / spirit / you
Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Short simple sentence – what does before mean?
H5921- עַל - ‛al - Properly the same as H5920 used as a preposition (in the singular or plural, often with prefix, or as conjugation with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications: - above, according to (-ly), after, (as) against, among, and, X as, at, because of, beside (the rest of), between, beyond the time, X both and, by (reason of), X had the charge of, concerning for, in (that), (forth, out) of, (from) (off), (up-) on, over, than, through (-out), to, touching, X with.
Thou shalt have no other gods (against) me.
Thou shalt have no other gods before (above or over) me.
Thou shalt have no other gods before (had the charge of) me.
Do your own word study
How can you have and angel / ‘other god’ against / opposing God?
How can you have an angel ‘other god’ above or over God?
How can you have an ‘other god’ that changes God’s plan?
From God we came - and to God we return
Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew (H3045) you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
H3045 – יָדַע - yâda‛ - A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively instruction, designation, punishment, etc.): - acknowledge, acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, can [-not], certainly, for a certainty, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be [ig-] norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to, let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have [knowledge], (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding], X will be, wist, wit, wot.
Tell me this is future reference – explain how the verb here is improperly translated as simple past tense
Some suggest– this could meant something like –
God knew what you would be like (future perfect tense)
If this was Greek – in the way I was taught to translate
Without having any idea of what it said before I started
When = Before God made us in the womb –before we are conciebed
Who = God
Verb = knew – past tense
What = you
What does knew imply – pasted tense
In the past – God (to know in the past)- properly to ascertain by seeing, including observation, care, recognition; and causatively instruction, designation, punishment, etc. – acknowledge (gnosis), acquaintance (-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, [un-] awares, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to, let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge (gnosis), have [knowledge] (gnosis), (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, perceive, privy to regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have [understanding] (gnosis)
God knew us – we were in full awareness of one another, we acknowledged one another, we were kinfolk, we perceived and were taught, knowledge, and understanding.
In the past – before conception
YES! I am reading some bias into my translation to promote a pro-Jewish view
This is why I love reading Rabbinic literature
A Christian might say – it means X and that’s that – no discussion – means only one thing
Rabbinic literature always discuss the FIVE most popular Rabbibic views
Possibly – your view is one of those views
BUT the predominate view = From God we Come – and to God We Return
We existed before the Body
Separate study Man's soul
Einstein is a man look up at God and says E = mc2 – E = visible + invisible
God is above – looking down at creation and says – God = invisible + visible
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image,
What is the image of God – a duality of God = invisible Spirit HS + visible matter Christ
God = Spirit + 3D image
Man also = insisible + visible
Man = Spirit + 3D image
The 3D image = a ‘living creature’ (Mind/Body) energized by the Nephesh – as with all living creatures agreed (Nephesh / Body)
And this image ‘living creature’ comes in a duality of sexes – male and female as with animals - most animals anyway
Agreed
YES! This Nephesh is from the HS – in more mays then one
E through the HS energizes the sub-atomic world →physics→chemistyr→biology→Body
E also energises the Nephesh through the HS→Body = (Nephesh/Body) = animals with consciousness
In my world that is both – beast – cave man – and the lineage of Adam
But Adam was the first homo-sapien – us – and Gen 2:7 - God→Adam
What did God breath into Adam in 2:7
We are different than just the animals = we are (Spirit + (Nephesh/Body))
And I use Gen 2:7 as my reference – man is different – God breathed into man
Nowhere else in scripture goes God breath into another ‘living creature’
The translators of the LXX – the top Egyptian Jewish Scholars of their day - 250BC
Choice their worse as wisely as they could - the KJV relies heavily on one single version of the LXX
Called the Textus Receptus – but here is an obvious difference with the KJV
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living(H2416) creature
H2416 – חַי – chay - From H2421; alive;
H5315 – נֶפֶשׁ – nephesh
OK for living creatures – no real difference
But for man
Gen 1:26 (KJV) And God said, Let us make man (H120)
H120 – אָדָם - 'âdâm
Gen 1:26 (LXX) καὶ ὁ θεός Ποιήσωμεν ἄνθρωπον
And THE God (καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεός) - said, Let us make (Ποιήσωμεν (4160)) – man (ἄνθρωπον (G444))
G4160 - Ποιήσωμεν – Verb - Aorist, Active, Indicative, 3rd person, singular of G4160 – ποιέω
Tense: Aorist – meaning ‘it happened’ no doubt
Voice: Active - The active voice describes a sentence where the subject performs the action stated by the verb. ... In fact, sentences constructed in the active voice add impact to your writing
Mood: Indicative - The indicative mood is used to make factual statements.
Person: third [he/she/it]
Number: Singular
G4160 – ποιέω - Apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; to make or do (in a very wide application, more or less direct): - abide, + agree, appoint, X avenge, + band together, be, bear, + bewray, bring (forth), cast out, cause, commit, + content, continue, deal, + without any delay, (would) do (-ing), execute, exercise, fulfil, gain, give, have, hold, X journeying, keep, + lay wait, + lighten the ship, make, X mean, + none of these things move me, observe, ordain, perform, provide, + have purged, purpose, put, + raising up, X secure, shew, X shoot out, spend, take, tarry, + transgress the law, work, yield.
God – Himself – deliberately -
(Made – appointed – banded together – casted out – lightened the ship – ordained – perfomed – provided - have purged – purposed - rose up – shot out)
- Man (G444)
G444 - ἄνθρωπος - anthrōpos - From G435 ἀνήρ and G3708 ὤψ (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, a human being: - man.
G435 - ἀνήρ - A primary word (compare G444); a man
G3708 - ὁράω - Properly to stare at (compare G3700), that is, (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension to attend to; by Hebraism to experience; passively to appear: - behold, perceive, see, take heed.
Man = Adam = H120 = G444 = G435+G3708
A man-faced animal that is able to discern clearly – perceive – see - and take heed of God
The Rabbi say – we are the creature that can choose
Look at this verb G4160
God - banded together - ordained - provided - and purposed - man
Soul + Mind/Body = human being - ordained, provided, and purposed - 'our mission'
God aslo - cast out - lightened the ship - purged - and shot out - man
From heaven to earth - from God and heaven we come - into animal at conception
ordained with the mission to - 1 remember and 2 reveal God's Glory to the world
Gen 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living (H2416) soul (5315).
H2416 chay - alive;
H5315 - nephesh
Man = (an alive + (nephesh/Body))
Gen 2:7 … καὶ ἐγένετο (G1096) ὁ ἄνθρωπος εἰς ψυχὴν (G5590) ζῶσαν (G2198).
G1096 – γίνομαι – ginomai- A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be (“gen” -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being)
G5590 – ψυχή - psuchē - breath, that is, (by implication) spirit,
G2198 – ζάω - zaō - A primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively): - life (-time), (a-) live (-ly), quick.
And the human being – became – a living spirit
But spirit are heavenly beings with no form – now trapped within a locality our spirit is now our soul
Man = (Soul + (Mind/Body))
At the end - why are there 2 deaths?
Answer – one is (Mind/Body) and one is death of soul / spirit
There are two levels to your existence
We all die of our sins – yes just as Adam and Eve did – Mortal death
Animals nephesh goes to the ground
Man’s soul returns to God
Pending – a second Death
Death of soul / spirit / you
Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.