Romans Chpt 1

[Dave]

Jul 8, 2020 14:18:04 GMT -5 @robertt said:

You are right, Satan is not a Creator.
You are right, Weeds do have purpose in a dysfunctional world.

Jul 9, 2020 13:59:30 GMT -5 @robertt said:

You suggest GOD created this serpent as a tester, doing RA for a functional purpose. Jesus words in John, do not suggest this idea. There is nothing functional about a dysfunctional Being, doing the Father's will. You have pointed out the Father can make some good come out of dysfunctional aspects of our living under RA, this is another topic.

I love this statement - there can be nothing functional in doing God’s Will

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Know the truth, but deny the truth

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

YES! – Einstein – the atom – Heisenberg – Plank – string theory – mutli-dimensionalism - our reality might be a holographic projection in someone else’s game - and even the most recent archeological discoveries – young DNA recovered from dinos – UFOs aliens

YES! All 100% scriptural validation – scientific talk of ‘intelligent design has been with science before Darwin’

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

But has science moved us toward scripture – NO
Why? Because science is a man-sport funded by man and therefore SELF driven

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

There is no denying it – since WWII the world has looked to America for leadership
Freedom = Freedom of expression = Freedom to be different
One of America’s biggest exports to the world = world class education
Creation is replaced by the Big Bang and Evolution is taught to our children before pre-school
In Fact the theory of Evolution is the embodiment of SEL – it is all me – grab as much as I can before I die

The Prophesy of Roman 1 is directed at
1 - each individual
2 – the culture there are from
3 – the nation they are from
4 – and the religious culture they are from

What a parallel with Adam and Eve
Their Free Will Freedom allowed them to make the choice – status quo or be different

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Adam and Eve became moral creature and a slave to toiling the ground – pain increased in childbirth

Post WWII America and then spreading to the Western Culture

Question #1– if God does no ra – then why does He give an entire culture up to unclean thoughts?

Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Question #2 – how can anyone turn on a TV and deny the truth / validity / of the LGBT
Therefore – how can anyone deny the truth / validity of scriptural prophesy

[Deleted]

Greetings Dave

You ask a hard question:

Question #1–does God do ra ?

This question may depend upon sin... is sin the same as ra?

What about a sinless universe, would GOD design ra in a sinless universe?

Dave says yes. God intentionally designed RA Beings to test humans to develop love fully, as a choice from free will.

Rob says no. There is no need to have RA beings doing RA in order to test the free will of choice to choose RA. Creatures loving God are already fully loving GOD, no further testing is necessary.

What about a universe with sin already in it, would GOD design ra to help those already sinning to stop sinning?

Rob is not sure??  Notice the passage you allude to:

Ge 50:18 And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants.
19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

His brothers did RA to Joseph. But God used that RA to make good come from it, without doing RA.  GOD is clever enough to make RA others do, into something good..

How could GOD achieve this in a way we could understand?



Notice when people are far from GOD their umbra RA shadows come observable, and they do RA. This affect is make observable by GOD (his light) and the people doing RA use God's powers for a RA purpose.

Suppose God's light source appeared bigger, the rays of light would make the RA affect vanish, while no changes in the relationship of the people to GOD doing RA.
This would make the RA appear to be good, with no changes in relationship to the people doing RA. This is one answer.

Another answer is for the people doing RA to become affected by people suffering RA while still loving GOD, they are moved by this, and thus move towards GOD, removing their RA, and thus loving their brother more. Thus the loving under RA, causes a change in their own relationship and they change their ways. In this example it is love than wins the people doing RA over. This is another answer.

Another answer is the love of GOD, despite them doing RA makes them repent, turn and go back to love, once they come to their senses. The prodigal son does this. The son does RA, the Father does TOV. after doing much RA, the son returns to His Father because he realizes TOV is better than RA. This is another answer.

Are there any examples of GOD doing RA to people doing RA in Scripture?

Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
(KJV)

Ge 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 ¶ And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 ¶ But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

One of God's strange act's is to destroy all living things on earth, man and creatures doing RA, and cover them up with earth, in a global flood.

The only humans saved were those doing TOV and sometimes ra. God's kindness overrules their ra, and saves them. Why does GOD save them and not others?

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death:

Some RA we do is unto death, and some RA we do is NOT unto death. God's grace and light can cover some shadows and save you. In the shadow experiment, there are two shadows of RA, the umbra and the pre-umbra shadows. God's light can penetrate some RA and cause it to vanish, these shadows are called in science pre-umbra shadows. There are shadows not unto death because GOD's light covers them.

As for people doing umbra shadows continually, the Scripture says the penalty of doing this is non-existence. Since GOD is the author of all things, He can also cause you to no longer exist.

Is this function a function of RA? I don't think so. In the shadow experiment, if I switch off the presence of GOD, you also cease to exist. RA requires the presence of GOD, the light rays, you as a person alive, and your relationship to GOD. Doing RA is only wrought when you move towards or away from GOD.

God doing his strange act, is hard to fathom, and I can see why some of us get confused by this? It seems like GOD does RA to people doing RA. I don't have any comforting answers to this question.

Did GOD intentionally do RA to members of GOD? Dave does not consider GOD as family powers, this is polytheism. However Rob does. Is it possible for a member of GOD to walk away from another member of GOD, thus doing RA? Yes this is possible, and it happened once.

Such as thing would cause the second death process to the Son of God.

The heavenly parents left their Son, doing this would cause the second death process, death is separation of GOD, so that GOD's united powers are no longer united as one. I have not thought of this before, perhaps RA and sin are not quite the same concept.

Also in heaven forever, Jesus lives with humanity, a human body with RA scars attached to it, a memorial of the life for life exchange for sinners doing ra, so in this sense, GOD intentionally preserves RA as an affect in His Son. This is again another sense of GOD can use RA for a good purpose. Certainly we in tears of joy, we are ever grateful for our Saviour's rescue for us. Shalom

[Dave]

You ask a hard question:
Question #1–does God do ra ?
This question may depend upon sin... is sin the same as ra?

And Yet you failed to answer the question

Dave says yes. God intentionally designed RA Beings to test humans to develop love fully, as a choice from free will.
Actually Dave says – Isa 45:7 and Prov 16:4 – I support scripture – Scripture says it – I just repeat it
Rob has to deny scripture to mantina consistency with Roman Feel Goodism – God is only LOVE

Rob says no. There is no need to have RA beings doing RA in order to test the free will of choice to choose RA. Creatures loving God are already fully loving GOD, no further testing is necessary.
Cool – In Australia when someone accepts Christ – they never back slide – they cannot fall away

What about a universe with sin already in it, would GOD design ra to help those already sinning to stop sinning?
All I will agree to = God uses the ra to facilitate God’s Will

Rob is not sure?? Notice the passage you allude to:
Ge 50:18 And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants.
19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

His brothers did RA to Joseph. But God used that RA to make good come from it, without doing RA. GOD is clever enough to make RA others do, into something good..
How could GOD achieve this in a way we could understand?

God uses the ra to facilitate God’s Will

Are there any examples of GOD doing RA to people doing RA in Scripture?
MANY

Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. (KJV)
God uses the ra to facilitate God’s Will

One of God's strange act's is to destroy all living things on earth, man and creatures doing RA, and cover them up with earth, in a global flood.

The only humans saved were those doing TOV and sometimes ra. God's kindness overrules their ra, and saves them. Why does GOD save them and not others?

Two Primary reasons and a proof

Gen 6:9 These are the generations (H8435) of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect (H8549) in his generations (H8435) , and Noah walked (H1980) with God.

H8435 - תֹּלְדָה תּוֹלְדָה - From H3205; (plural only) descent, that is, family; (figuratively) history: - birth, generations.

H8549 – תָּמִים - From H8552; entire (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) integrity, truth: - without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright (-ly),

H1980 – הָלַךְ - Akin to H3212; a primitive root; to walk (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively): - (all) along, apace, behave (self), come, (on) continually, be conversant ….

1- Noah was perfect in His Generations – integrity – without blemish perfect – without spot
All other ‘living creatures’ have had their ‘generations’ corrupted – your DNA argument
But I do not see it something magical – but rather imparted by the bane elohyim (archon) who fathered ½ breed demingods – and chimeras (all living creatures)

Point – although Noah was perfect in His Generations – was his wife?
Even if both Noah and Wife are DNA clean – they had three sons
If all three sons are also perfect in their generations (assuming Noah’s wife is )
Then – it is also well known that Hamm was mentally unstable
In the ark – the MidRash tells of Hamm unable to abstain from sexual conduct wile in the ark
It also says – Hamm fed the Nephilim Og through a knot hole in the ark – or Hamm hid the Nephilim in a dark corner and fed him in the shadows

Then - Gen 9:20-25 and Ham is cursed and becomes Canaan

2- Noah walked (H1980) with God.
H1980 – הָלַךְ - primitive root; to walk (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively): - continually, be conversant ….
Noah was a Born again Christian

Now for the proof

Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:14 Make thee an ark
And the next seven verses describe building a mega structure –
And when God was finished

Did Noah question God – why me Lord – it sounds impossible
All Noah said was – YES SIR

Gen 6:22 (TLV) So Noah did according to all that God commanded him; he did so exactly.

************

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death:

Some RA we do is unto death, and some RA we do is NOT unto death. God's grace and light can cover some shadows and save you.
God’s Grace can cover anything He chooses – I will not place limit on God

God doing his strange act, is hard to fathom, and I can see why some of us get confused by this? It seems like GOD does RA to people doing RA. I don't have any comforting answers to this question.
BOO – ½ truth
God uses the ra to test / tempt everyone – the good and the bad

1Pe 1:6 You rejoice in this greatly, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials.

Did GOD intentionally do RA to members of GOD? Dave does not consider GOD as family powers, this is polytheism. However Rob does. Is it possible for a member of GOD to walk away from another member of GOD, thus doing RA? Yes this is possible, and it happened once.

Such as thing would cause the second death process to the Son of God.
Are you saying Christ walk away from God the father – when?
Are you saying – God hates Christ – God opposes Christ - I need a verse
In my world God set up the situation – put the ‘sar’ of this world and Christ in the same world
The ‘sar’ of this world did his best job against Jesus the man – it is his job
But Jesus the man – did not bow - did not even consider the idea – but rejected the ‘sar’ of this world
Proving Jesus is more than a man – He is the Christ

I have not thought of this before, perhaps RA and sin are not quite the same concept.
Cool

Also in heaven forever, Jesus lives with humanity, a human body with RA scars attached to it, a memorial of the life for life exchange for sinners doing ra, so in this sense, GOD intentionally preserves RA as an affect in His Son. This is again another sense of GOD can use RA for a good purpose. Certainly we in tears of joy, we are ever grateful for our Saviour's rescue for us. Shalom

1- Jesus Christ is not 3D mortal man in heaven

1Jn 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

Jesus is not like mortal man

2- GOD intentionally preserves RA as an affect in His Son. = GNOSIS of the FACT
Man – the world – the Pharisees meant the cross as a ra
But all along – it was the biggest TOV imaginable


He = the Creator of the mult-verse and the All
I am just a 3D mortal (soul + (Mind/Body)) animal with a limited mortal life span

There is only one Creator and the multiverse is unfolding just as God's Wills
No competeion - no other opposing God - all is in God's Control