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Post by Dave on Jan 11, 2020 0:18:50 GMT -5
OK – Now you have done it – new question to youGen 1:1 God created the heaven and earth Rev 12:8 … neither was their place found any more in heaven. Rev 12:9 … he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Is the heavan and earth of Gen 1:1 the same as Rev 12? Is the earth of Gen 1:1 the same as Gen 1:11? What is the meaning of INTO THE EARTH? Rev 12:8 … in (ἐν - G1722 ) heaven. ἐν - G1722 – Strong’s - A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); “in”, at, (up-) on, by, etc.: - about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-) by (+ all means), ἐν - G1722 – Thayer Definition: in, by, with etc. Rev 12:9 … he was cast out into (εἰς - G1519 ) the earth εἰς - G1519 – Strong’s: A primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases.: - [abundant-] ly, against, among, as, at, [back-] ward, εἰς - G1519 - Thayer Definition: into, unto, to, towards, for, among Rev 12:9 … he was cast out into (entered, against, among) the earthExplain to me what this means |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 15:39:19 GMT -5
Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Ac 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Mt 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
No doubt Dave you have different views, but reading all these texts I see that "hell" or "shaowl" is a place somewhere on earth, and is reserved or used right now for some of the fallen angels who sinned long before "earth" or "hell" existed.
Some of the 1/3 of heavenly angels who sinned are locked away in this prison place called "hell" somewhere "in the earth" as you raise the question. Indeed some of the sinning angels asked Jesus not to torment them before the judgement time.
This prison house chain, hell place might be to limit sinning forces on the earthlings. Ie too many sinning fallen angels than humans...
The humans who sin and die, fall alseep in the earth in graves, and seem not to enter "hell" until after judgement.
The place of "hell" becomes after judgement, of all fallen angels and of all sinning humans, a place where nothing exists anymore, so the end of the wicked angels and wicked humans is permanent.
It's not something I study much Dave, I concentrate more on getting to know Jesus, listening to Him, rather than studying places like you mention.
Hope this helps. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 11, 2020 19:27:28 GMT -5
Bible study about the implication of grammar – it makes ‘literal worlds’ of differenceThis is at the very heart of the difference between Gnostic multi-dimensionalism and Catholic simple one dimensionalism Gen 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning God created the heaven(H8064) (singular) and the earth(H776) (singular). שָׁמֶה - H8064 - The second form being dual of an unused singular; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; th e sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): - air, X astrologer, heaven (-s). אֶרֶץ - H776 - From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world. The result of a simple one dimensional Catholic education = heaven is a singular physical locality – it is the realm of the planets and stars – you can see it in their telescope and earth = here and here only singular  The result of a simple one dimensional Catholic education = Our physical universe and earth  So all the evil of the entire universe is trapped within our one and only planet? Job 2:2 And Jehovah said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered Jehovah, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. So God’s servant satan of the entire universe is only concerned with our one and only planet? This view is elementary and limited to the Catholic one dimensional thinking that places man and earth at the center of the universe This is why when you ask anyone to point towards heaven or hell they chose up and point to the sky or down and point to the earth / ground / land Reality is so much larger Where is the spirit realm – in all of this – is heaven a physical locality out there in space some where? And Hell is a physical locality with in our one and only planet?
Grammar counts(TLV) In the beginning God created the heavens (plural) and the earth (singular) (YLT) In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens (plural) and the earth (singular) (ASV) In the beginning God created the heavens (plural) and the earth (singular) (HNV) In the beginning God created the heavens (plural) and the eretz (singular) (OJB) In the beginning Elohim created hashomayim (the heavens, Himel) (plural) and haaretz (the earth) (singular) (WLC – Tanak interlinear) 1:1 ְבּ ֵרא ִשׁית b·rashith in·beginning ָבּ ָרא bra he-created ֱאלִֹהים aleim Elohim ֵאת ath » ַהָשַּׁמִים e·shmim the·heavens - (plural) ְוֵאת u·ath and·» ָה ָא ֶרץ e·artz the·earth - (singular) Why is heavens plural in almost every other translation? Especially in Hebrew translations?Teach me your Hebrew here – heavens of Gen 1:1 = plural localities vrs the earth a single locality A different Gnostic perspective = heavens = the unseen realities (plural) vrs the seen reality (corporeal – physical) earth What is earth – singular - seen physical corporeal reality (our uni-verse – 3rd dimension 3D reality) What is heaven – plural – unseen, non-corporeal, spirit realm (the rest of the multi-verse – dimensions 4-10 – or 7 more to = 10 dimensions. Gnostic Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the MULTI-verse / multi-dimensions One of those 10 dimensions – the 3rd dimension = earth and physical reality – one locality The rest of those dimensions of the multi-verse = the heavens (plural) - multiple localities Rev 12:8 … their place found any more in heaven. - 7 unseen localities (which mortal man understands as the spirit realm) Rev 12:9 … was cast down to the earth, - 1 locality – seen – corporeal reality – our universe Otherwise, man could just move to Mars with Elon Musk and escape earth with all it evil Why can’t we do that – why will satan be there waiting for us on Mars After all God’s servant satan of the entire universe is only concerned with our one and only planet? Why can’t man just change planets? ConclusionEarth of Gen 1:1 is not this one and only planet – it is our physical universe Gen 1:1 God created the spiritual reality (outside our field of vision) and the physical reality (that we can see) Rev 12:8 … in (ἐν - G1722 ) heaven. ἐν - G1722 – Strong’s - A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); “in”, at, (up-) on, by, etc.: - about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-) by (+ all means), ἐν - G1722 – Thayer Definition: in, by, with etc. Rev 12:9 … he was cast out into (εἰς - G1519 ) the earth εἰς - G1519 – Strong’s: A primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases.: - [abundant-] ly, against, among, as, at, [back-] ward, εἰς - G1519 - Thayer Definition: into, unto, to, towards, for, among Rev 12:9 … he was cast out into (entered, against, among) the earth
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Post by Dave on Jan 12, 2020 7:31:36 GMT -5
It's not something I study much Dave, I concentrate more on getting to know Jesus, listening to Him, rather than studying places like you mention. By a deeped understanding of the word - we have a deeper understanding of true theological reality - and a deeper understand of our place (and function) within that theology Paul says - we can fight the good fight if we put on the whole arour of God - truthTruth - is not Catholic Mythology that is anti-JewishWhat is the purpose of the catholic Church - it looks like Christianity, smell like Christianity, talks like Christianity - but is NOT - it is some controling man-made public thought police The function of the Catholic church is is dilute and pollute the faith The legacy of 2000 years of Catholic traing - only leaves the masses with the question Why doesn't feel good God - have compassion on earth? He doesn't care or is not real. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 13:21:39 GMT -5
Your raise difficult points to consider Dave,
Grammar.
I have enough trouble getting people to understand basic words in a sentence, let alone the grammar. If we are all babes, growing mature, shouldn't Scripture be made simple for the simple? How do you witness to others in the street? You begin with simple stuff.
Get the basic words right first. I have yet to find a Church who even gets the basic words right, let alone the grammar... its all confusing to ponder confusion, if we don't even agree over the words.
Some battle over messages, even whole sentences and verses? Boy what a complex issue of confusion this is. I chose the easier path. I just battle over words. Keep it simple stupid KISS is written as advice for a reason. Let's get the basic words right first.
"earth" is "strong Head travels", the aptly defined meaning of "ARY" or common spelling "erts". So we live on a planet, a strong head, travelling in space.
You mention why "heavens" plural and earth singular? Well heavens refers to any covering, be, layers of the atmosphere, our solar system and heaven, where GOD lives in some other galaxy perhaps? There are more than one covering around earth, but one planet earth. Seems simple enough?
Why complicate it?
After all God’s servant satan of the entire universe is only concerned with our one and only planet?
What a contradictory term you write? "servant satan" a servant cannot oppose. But in your theology a servant works for GOD but also apposes GOD? Really? Makes no sense.
The word itself means to "oppose" an "opponent" somebody against you, not a friend.
But you change the meaning. Words have to have stable fixed basic meanings, all the time, not change when it suits you.
Hebrew "satan" both verb and noun forms, means to "oppose" or "opponent" , never a friend.
Was GOD a friend to Baalim when GOD opposed him? no. God told the evil prophet to speak only what God wanted Him to speak.
And when a fallen angel who supposes is king of planet earth, speaks to GOD, he is also told limits, does this make the opponent a friend or an opponent? an opponent.
So when Simon Magnus was baptised, was He a friend or an opponent to GOD? How many people think baptism makes them a Christian? does it? no !!!
Only supporting GOD makes you a Christian. Baptism is just a sign, that's all.
Why can’t man just change planets?
Why we can't even land on the moon? Space is hostile and deadly. Maybe its deadly for a reason, to prevent evil from spreading.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 12, 2020 21:57:36 GMT -5
Your raise difficult points to consider Dave,
Grammar.
I have enough trouble getting people to understand basic words in a sentence, let alone the grammar. If we are all babes, growing mature, shouldn't Scripture be made simple for the simple? How do you witness to others in the street? You begin with simple stuff. Tell me how you communicate in English – with or without grammar? If I are not don’t good use English you not can grasp yesterday the things I will said in the future How do you have an effective witness to others – by not lying to them – by not feeding them a bunch of religious mythology that has no bases in reality – and is at odds with reality. We need to be honest and open – if you cannot see the hand of God in reality how can you point it out to another? People who are locked into the religious mumbo-jumbo of Catholicism are unable to communicate to anyone other than another catholic indoctrinate You - for example - are so stuck on two words of one verse that it clouds all of your readings of the Torah See how important grammar is Satan is man’s opponent / accuser – not God’s opponent or accuser (grammar) Of man First – we did land on the moon – the proof comes from Russia If we didn’t actually land on the moon Russia would have exposed America as a fake  After all these years - if there was no phsyical evidence - China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, France, or Turkey would love the opportunity to embarrase America as a liar Instead – they gave up their moon landing plans – Why not follow America to the moon?Because of what we found there – archon that told us not to return We ran smack into the archon on their own turf However – they are not supposed to be exposed until Rev 9 (interesting that today - China, India, and America is returning to the moon
prepping us for the uncoming fake alien invasion / war - which is actulally the archon of Rev 9)Second – now you are saying that man is the cause of evil If man goes to Mars he would take spread the evil there How could man do this if satan and all evil is bound to one and only planet earth? As you claim! If your satan is God’s enemy why does he oppose God’s only on planet earth What about the rest of the universe? Isn’t that God’s creation also? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 13:16:21 GMT -5
Interesting image Dave, is it real? Let's assume it is...
Would you see wheel buggy tracks from 200m elevation or higher? Where was this picture taken? Off a space craft filming close to the moon? You can't see cattle tracks or quad tracks on Google Earth from 200m elevation... for example.
As for your other questions:
Satan opposed Jesus when on the earth, even asked Jesus to worship Him. You would expect an opponent to do this.
If Satan is thrown into lake of fire, this proves Him as an opponent. You agree with this?
Making war in heaven implies opponents against GOD does it not? No humans around than?
As for why Satan does not go to other planets, he is not allowed to. How would he get there anyhow? Ride on the wings of the Holy Spirit? I don't think so. The Holy Spirit limits evil to a single planet for a reason. It was already enough war in heaven, remember?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 14, 2020 1:03:27 GMT -5
Assume it is real? Are we having a serious conversation or not?Actually the picture was taken from 13 miles (21 kilometers) in altitude – through no atmosphere www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/news/apollo-sites.html“The maneuver lowered LRO from its usual altitude of approximately 31 miles (50 kilometers) to an altitude that dipped as low as nearly 13 miles (21 kilometers) as it passed over the moon's surface” Spy satellites can see more detail from 200 miles in altitude through earth’s atmosphere science.howstuffworks.com/question529.htm“The satellites …managed by the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), headquartered in Chantilly, Va. Digital images from the satellites are analyzed, manipulated and combined by powerful computers at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA).
The black and white images are used by the military and civilian communities. Many of the details about this class of satellites remain classified, but it is known that there are several of these overhead at any given time. They have an imaging resolution of 5-6 inches, which means they can see something 5 inches or larger on the ground. (the size of a footprint, an envelope, or a cell phone) These satellites probably can't read your house number, but they can tell whether there is a bike parked in your driveway.”And - this information is probably an understatement! Thank God for satan proving that Jesus is tempted just like man and resisted In fact Jews say thank God for satan – for with him how could we show God our virtue When you pray – do you thank God for satan? If not – why don’t you praise God in all things? Are we having a serious conversation or not?How do any spirit being go anywhere? So – in the entire multi-verse and this seemingly endless uni-verse God is only concerned with man on planet earth at the center of everything – this is called a geo-centric view – held by the Catholic church until Copernicus proved them wrong Reality is bigger than just Catholic Rome |
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Post by Dave on Jan 14, 2020 9:02:11 GMT -5
[quote author="@robertt" source="/post/3293/thread" timestamp="1578853299 Some battle over messages, even whole sentences and verses? Boy what a complex issue of confusion this is. . Let's get the basic words right first. [/quote] So – you are not interested in the message – or complete sentences – all you have chosen to do is battle over wordsAnd you battle very well – you doubt everything and question everyone – yet you claim to keep it simple You bow only to Roman Catholic theology and Ellen White, the wife of a leader from, not one, but two a failed prophesies. If you were simple – you would still be sitting in your church helping to pay for your pastor’s new car Is this who you are – this is why you found this forum – because you are simple? Every statement made – you can find fault with – every fact presented is suspect And you make outrageous statements without evidence Jesus was Hebrew, but He did NOT act like a Jew in his day? Why not? Remember that when you answer these questions... Mary sacrificed two doves Jesus was circumcised Jesus worship no other God than the God of the Jews Jesus kept the Torah – and kept all of the rituals required of a Jew Jesus kept each and every Temple gathering / Feast / Calibration / Sabbath Jesus even declared – He did not come to change the Torah – not one tittle How was Jesus NOT Jewish? – and why in the world would you think Him not Oh – ya – Jesus was your very first Catholic I suppose Rather - the only view of Judaism is the Roman view of it - which is anti-Jewish How can you criticize something - anything - if you don't even understand it? Don't be religious - be intelligent |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 13:34:40 GMT -5
Jesus kept the Torah – and kept all of the rituals required of a Jew
Really?
What about healing on Sabbath?
What about eating corn on Sabbath when hungry?
What about washing of hands?
What about brothers asking Jesus to follow Jewish traditions, he walked away from them?
Talmud is not Torah. Jesus didn't follow Talmud, Jesus followed Torah, is there a difference?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 14, 2020 20:37:03 GMT -5
Jesus kept the Torah – and kept all of the rituals required of a JewReally? What about healing on Sabbath? (Wiki – things prohibited on the Jewish Sabbath) - When human life is endangered, a Jew is not only allowed, but required, to violate any Sabbath law that stands in the way of saving that person.[14][15] The concept of life being in danger is interpreted broadly; for example, it is mandated that one violate the Sabbath to take a woman in active labor to a hospital. (Wiki – unleven bread) - The Torah only prohibits Jews from eating chametz during Passover. Ex 13:3 When the Jews escaped Egypt (led by Moses), they didn't have time to let their breads rise before going into the desert. Because of this, any type of leavened bread or bread product is prohibited during Passover. ... Unleavened bread, aka “matzo,” traditionally takes the place of chametz during Passover. (Wiki - Handwashing in Judaism) - Before eating bread. This only applies to bread made from one of the five chief grains (wheat, cultivated barley, spelt, wild barley, and oats) Don’t know your verse – However The question – should we be religious? Requires no answer. I guess I don’t get your point is your Jesus Jewish or not? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 13:33:52 GMT -5
Not sure if I agree with your assessment Dave:
Mr 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
And here
Mt 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
I don't get the impression Jesus followed all the Talmud, midrash and other Jewish stuff as you claim, He only followed Hebrew.
And here
Lu 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.
It's clear from the text the Jews would not have loosened this woman on Sabbath.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 16, 2020 9:53:58 GMT -5
Not sure if I agree with your assessment Dave:
Mr 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.You should be a Christin – not act like one
You should be a practicing Jew – not a religious Jew
You should be intelligent not religiousMt 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.You should be a Christin – not act like one
You should be a practicing Jew – not a religious Jew
You should be intelligent not religiousI don't get the impression Jesus followed all the Talmud, midrash and other Jewish stuff as you claim, He only followed Hebrew.
You do not know the Talmud or the MidRash and basically don’t understand a lot of Jewish stuff
Your impression is inspired by your Catholic educationAnd here
Lu 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
17 And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him.You should be a Christin – not act like one
You should be a practicing Jew – not a religious Jew
You should be intelligent not religiousIt's clear from the text the Jews would not have loosened this woman on Sabbath.It is easy to pick on religious people following religious laws and rituals
Let me make the same argument back to youMy Jesus acted like a Jewish Rabbi – not a ChristianJesus gave us two hugh commandments
Love one another as I have loved you – and – seek ye first the Kingdom of heaven
So how doe Christians act?stellarhousepublishing.com/victims/Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete) (158 things on this incomplete list) As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed. Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain. Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis. Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as “temple destroyer.” [DA468] Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468] Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469] According to Christian chroniclers he “followed meticulously all Christian teachings…” In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights. In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466] The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415. You should be a Christin – not act like one
You should be a practicing Jew – not a religious Jew
You should be intelligent not religious
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 13:52:59 GMT -5
Dave: "My Jesus acted like a Jewish Rabbi – not a Christian
Ok my apologies. Jesus acted like a Jewish Rabbi??
Please provide examples Jesus followed midrash, Talmud and ceremonies as Jews required .
The verses please?
stellarhousepublishing.com/victims/
Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete) (158 things on this incomplete list)
Would I consider them Christian? no, not at all. Fake zealots, doing Satan's work. Jesus showed us love in person and in action. Did Jesus kill anybody on earth in the NT? Did Jesus force anyone to love Him in the NT? no to both questions.
Love is not rude, love does not show pride, love does not kill humans.
Simple. Anyone who claims otherwise does not understand love at all.
Back to the Jewish faith.
Your assuming the Jewish faith is all totally from GOD, written by GOD and made holy by GOD.
Is this true? Does history accounts in the OT bear this out?
This question is important because it accounts how Jesus acted as a Jew on the earth in the NT in person. Was Jesus acting differently to the Jewish leaders, yes or no.
Yes would imply he followed Jewish ways, and would be accepted by them.
No would imply he did follow all the Jewish ways, and was not accepted by them. In fact the leaders wanted to kill Jesus and get rid of his teachings.
So which answer is it Dave?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 16, 2020 17:58:27 GMT -5
stellarhousepublishing.com/victims/
Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. Would I consider them Christian? no, Simple. Anyone who claims otherwise does not understand love at all Back to the Jewish faith. This question is important because it accounts how Jesus acted as a Jew on the earth in the NT in person. Was Jesus acting differently to the Jewish leaders, yes or no. Was Jesus acting differently than Christians leaders? yes or no. Yes would mean Jesus would follow the Christian leaders today I wonder if that would be a Catholic, a Presbyterian, or an SDA Christian that Jesus would follow? No would mean that Jesus wouldn’t have anything to with Christendom and they refuse to teach his message of love and peace as referenced above So which answer is it Rob? Which Christian denomination would Jesus follow today? Which Christian leader would Jesus follow? |
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