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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 13:35:20 GMT -5
A lot of points to consider here Dave
Quote: I read this entire paragraph with every option If a guy tried - he could make 78 different English sentences out of this scrabble But every different sentence would carry the same theme / meaning / essence
I look for the theme - not the vocabulary
Your style is completely different to mine, you use 40+ lexicons, I use Jeff Benners lexicon only, to ascertain the ancient Hebrew pictograph, and get from Him his single basic English word for that Hebrew word for every context.
You read themes, and therefore sentences.
I read words, and thus look for a single English word first.
Let me see if Scripture allows for your style of study:
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
This is the only Scripture that entertains the technical aspect of how to Scripture says to read Scripture.
"tsav" is used not much but a related word "tsavah" is.
Ps 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
Here is a poetry simile, we must read the "stuff" Jesus spoke, the "Stuff" He commanded, the "stuff" that stood fast, as He spoke them to do so.
Ps 71:3 Be thou my strong habitation, whereunto I may continually resort: thou hast given commandment "tsavah" to save me; for thou art my rock "cela" and my fortress.
Here we notice the "stuff" saves us, the "cela" rock is Jesus, so we are "Saved by the "stuff" of Jesus.
Ps 119:138 Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful.
Other witness to the "stuff" can be supportive (amanuah). Does this other witness include other writings apart from Bible witness prophets? yes, gnostic writings would fit here too.
Isa 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
This chapter is interesting, helping us read about line (Hebrew) as well.
Quote: Electronic Bible - Most everyone I know uses “esword” it is free
Ah, yes, but PowerCD has the ability to group all verses using that Hebrew word, you wish to study the meaning of. This is an important method, to study words.
You see words having polysemy.
I don't. Jeff doesn't either. That's why I was attracted to him. Sure a few multiple meaning in Hebrew exist, but its uncommon, and possibly the result of increasing confusion into the language. Originally the language was simple and pure.
Your examples of "gay, hell and such forth", are not examples of Hebrew words found in Scripture. I use sola scriptoria as my first primary source, and other commentaries as a secondary source, only if such a source supports the primary source. The word "hell" is "shaowl", we use only the meaning Scripture gives it, no other sources are allowed, unless those sources agree to Scripture.
I have respect for the Gnostic writings so far, but I ask you since you know them better than me, is the totality of Gnostic writings 100% supportive of the primary source? I have found Luther's writings for example 70% supportive of the primary source, so while respective of Luther's writings, I do not use his writings, daily to confirm Biblical studies. One thing I do love about Martin Luther is his method of Bible translation into German. He assumes no polysemy during translation. He is mechanical as Jeff Benner is. This is a very rare trait. A sign Luther was righteous. Luther lived by the light given him, so what he writes at times is wonderful, he doesn't right all things correctly, and this really does not matter, as the primary source is our guide.
Quote:"Luke was a Greek writing to Greeks - why would he use Hebrew? All the letter were written to a Greek speaking audience Translating them back into Hebrew just adds error - we already have enough
Luke wrote Paul's writings in Greek, but Paul would have written them in Hebrew. How do I know this? Paul's mother tongue is Hebrew, not Greek. But as a rare Jew he could speak three languages, Latin, Greek and Hebrew.
Translating a word in the NT back to the word in the OT does not increase error, it reduces error. It brings the word to it's original meaning. Without the OT we would never know what "faith" means in the NT. Actually Scripture says "rain" must equal "former rain" OT plus "latter rain" NT. Jews do not see this calling from Hosea 6:3 and Isa 28:11.
Faith means support. How many churches know this ? None, not even my own. See the problem? Nobody has a clue what salvation means in Jesus, they just have faith, without really knowing what faith is. Nothing wrong with that as a babe, ... Most of us are saved as babes plucked as firebrands in the fire of Christ. Nothing wrong with being babes. But we also should grow up. I am a babe still, after over 50 years studying Scripture. My prayer life is still immature. I would love to learn how to surrender Baal master powers of self and stop my tongue from talking my words, instead I should talk Jesus words.
Words are more important constructs than themes or sentences, although themes and sentences do come from words. Is not Jesus the word personified? The memrah? John 1:1, In the beginning was the memrah, the memrah was with Elohiym.
Quote:"Walk into a room full of non-believers and start using the Bible – and you have already lost To the footballers - Judas dropped the ball With the UFO crowd - I start with Gen 6
You have a gift that I don't. Paul had this too. If you know Greek culture, you can talk Greek culture to them and your Hebrew salvation is much more successful. If I knew pigin English as a missionary, I would have spoken Pigin. It's like Hebrew, emotionally sounding and repetitive. Good point Dave.
Quote: "Now – what do you think of the Dead Sea Scrolls and The Nag Hammadi text? Especially, in light of the fact that several of them say – hidden for the time of the end
Interesting point. You have broadened my mind and respect for others as we ponder confusion.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
The phrase "cord upon cord" a little here, a little there, suggests lining up sentences or phrases of words, but it says do so across other places in the primary source. As I show in Isaiah 34. You use lexicons to ascertain meaning of a sentence. I study each word first, using only the Bible itself. And than assembly the words in sentences. But generally I don't do this sentence thing. It would requires me to learn Greek and Hebrew prefix's and stuff like that. Too hard already.
I get the impression you read Greek. That's another gift I don't have.
Jeff says "Ab" means "father/fruit" a word with polysemy. I looked at this and found a more broader Hebrew meaning, hence removing polysemy. "Ab" means "Provider".
Jeff says "ruwach" means "ordinary wind, character of man or character of God, and the Holy Spirit as a Being" a polysemy word having three meanings. Again I think we have missed something. Your Gnostic writings suggest to me that perhaps we need a broader meaning.
What about the meaning of "responder"?
Wind is the responding of air (media) in the presence of energy (Father's force), and hence we feel the response of the medium as ordinary wind.
The DNA information in man, recorded by the Holy Spirit, seen by our Rabbi as the "eternal living that lives" is really a "Response" to the "responder", when divinity comes into relationship with dust, there is a response from the Responder, and thus nephesh becomes 'living energy'. The atoms of matter think, and do and are emotional and act, how is this possible, because the matter is responding to the relationship of divinity attached to it.
Thus GOD is interested in your response to His Responder.
And finally the Ruwach as a Being, the Responder to love. We rarely see the responder alone, always in the presence of the Provider. Hence the "spirit of Elohiym" means the "responder of the provider" and this suggests love is relational all the time. Love is a circuit, and flows only when love is connected to providers and responders.
Now this reduces the word meaning of ruwach to a single broad meaning "responder". When I ponder the gentle talk of our Rabbi, I can relate to it, and this is how I have understood his words, even though he mixes Hebrew terms, the message is profound.
11 Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: 12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. 13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
One thing I stay clear of in my study of words using Scripture alone, is the commentaries of men. At times I do use them when I am stuck. Like Adam Clarke, and Luther, and Spurgeon etc. Jewish writing has too much Talmud in it, but their bias is Jewish and this helps against the bias of Christianity.
Notice this profound text of Jesus:
Lu 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
The word "expounded" means to translate. Why translate Hebrew scripture to Hebrew readers? Possible one was Greek? Or maybe the Jews read Hebrew incorrectly? But this text shows the value to read the NT in Hebrew. Correctly. As Jesus did.
Shalom
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 18:24:42 GMT -5
An in depth reply Dave... I will try to answer some, but I am no expert, I speak no Hebrew or Greek, and cannot find useful electronic tools to match Greek to Hebrew, but would love to have such electronic NT in Hebrew. archive.org/details/BilbiKJVHEBOTNTV2NETBOOK/page/n3967Things like this, not so useful. My best resource is this pdf document by Chris: Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek? A Concise Compendium of the Many Internal and External Evidences of Aramaic Peshitta Primacy Compiled by Christopher Lancaster Copyright Christopher Lancaster 2005 Quote: So what is this really all about? Well, the majority of people believe that the New Testament was originally penned in Greek. There is one little problem with this belief. There is no proof! It has just been taken for granted, in much the same way as it has been taken for granted that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew (even though for a long time, we had no widespread access to a Hebrew Old Testament). Unfortunately, while Hebrew OT primacists were right, Greek NT primacists were wrong. The New Testament was originally written in Aramaic, not Greek. And that makes a whole lot of sense. Jesus, His Apostles, and the earliest Christians were Semites, speaking the Semitic language of Aramaic – the main tongue of Jesus’ day. That later and numerous manuscripts of the NT were found written in Greek, proves Greek primacy no more than the widespread reach of the King James Bible proves English primacy. Endquote: He lists dozens of errors in the NT text if the Greek was primary. I was hoping to find a Messianic Jew who reads the NT and OT in Hebrew, to ask him questions about salvation in Yeshua. But have not found any so far. As you point out Jews do not see a literal Adam and Eve, a literal global flood and even Moses as a literal journey of salvation. If the NT was written in Greek as primary, we should find words that cannot be written in Hebrew, using the Hebrew word set from the torah only (Moses time). We find however the NT Greek, uses Hebrew words all the time in the Greek, a sure sign of translation. You quote lots of verbs and indirect objects in sentences of Paul, Hebrew is also like this: Ge 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. (KJV) Jeff Benner makes this verse very different, the Hebrew says it differently. !(ms)~ Do to~ you(ms) Vessel Tree~ s Gopher Nest~ s you(ms)~ will~ Do At the~ Vessel and~ you(ms)~ did~ Cover At~ her from~ House and~ from~ Outside in~ the~ Covering make for you a vessel of trees of gopher, nests you will make for the vessel and cover her from the house and from the outside with the covering, Hebrew writes complex verbs I think, and this is why Paul's writings are difficult. The question one should ask, is WHY is this necessary to our salvation, as we ponder confusion? Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Why stammering lips? and why another tongue? to speak to the Gentiles? If the world of trade in Acts is Greek, the government is Latin, and salvation was spoken in Hebrew, the Greek-Jews gathered in the Jewish churches on Sabbath mornings (Saturday) to hear the Hebrew spoken, because Jews only speak in Hebrew. Don't Catholics only speak in Latin? Does this help the gentile? no hence the stammering lips, the Hebrew goes out into a new tongue (Greek) for Gentile Greeks. Its a scripture prophecy right in the middle of how scripture says scripture should be read. Paul uses this same text to refer to those speaking new tongues apart from Hebrew. Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. Notice despite this translation attempt, they still would not hear: Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them (Greek audience reading Hebrew tongue translated into Greek tongue) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Notice the same method to read OT in Hebrew, is the same process to read NT in Greek, but they fall backward, and are broken (pride fall) and are snared and taken? What does this mean? Snared by whom? You speak of the edit by the Roman pontiffs and you're right, but there are many such wanderers in the Jews too. Isa 28:14 ¶ Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Many Jews are also scornful men, who twist Scripture to reduce the NT to nothing, to get rid of the Father's Son of divinity. Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: No wonder GOD took the Hebrew salvation process out of Jewish hands. What did they do with the Father's Son of divinity? They crucified him. Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Again the Scripture writes poetry pictures, always to hide the mystery, so people ponder confusion. Who is the "precious corner stone"? Jesus is. Scripture words have to line up with the "words personified" what Hebrew calls "memrah", or Jesus who personifies His Father's words as a Being of Divinity. Hence the Greek words are to be lined up with Hebrew, so the words personified come through. This is how we read Scripture. Teachings is rain. Water is water. Wine is doctrine. Wine is special water processed by life, a simile of Jesus, via the Holy Spirit, via the Father. New wine for new skins is saying the context of this water is for new contexts but the water or wine is the same. Too many churches abandon the OT completely and use only the NT Greek instead. This is wrong. Jews only stumble in the OT. This is wrong too. Torah is a simile of rain, or water. Rain is a simile of living. Water is a divine family of powers, a bond of two maleness-love providers joined electrically to one femaleness-love responder. The electrical nature of love pervades water so that living systems are based on electrical dimensions of love. Masons know this and use EMF electrical world to destroy our living bodies. Beware of the 5G! I get the same snobbery when writing to Jewish Rabbi too, they do not like to ponder confusion with you. You get one email at best. My church Pastors are the same. One email. They hate to discuss salvation with you. Why? I don't know. Pride perhaps? Stiff neck pious people. It's funny grace is around the neck and the stiff necks also flow from the neck? Hebrew poetry is funny a lot. Quote: "I am new to your method - I learned to translate Greek in high school I still use this same method - looking at some text with unknown vocabulary you are require to cycle through different versions of a word base meaning to fit a context. Teach me your method: Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. What does this passage mean according to your method? I am especially interested in the use of "kathistemi". You have seen my method : spiritualsprings.org/ss-1095.htmQuote:" True story - I was working at Kosciusko Community Hospital back in 1994, when a 12 yr old girl came to our ER and died of Strep throat. It made national News because the parents were from a church called - Faith Assembly and they preach against modern medicine. The mother was a mess in the waiting area and the father was so mad. Mom had called to ambulance at the very last - her lack of faith killed her daughter. Daughter was dyeing in a cold ER room and dad was screaming at mom for failing! The truth as I see it - IMO - Little Jimmy and his parents are being tested in the Great Contest Correct. Look at what happened to Job, lost his children, for no reason, just because Satan did not want his witness of GOD. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Sept 27, 2019 23:42:02 GMT -5
Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek? A Concise Compendium of the Many Internal and External Evidences of Aramaic Peshitta Primacy Compiled by Christopher Lancaster Copyright Christopher Lancaster 2005
I’ll look at this paper – I have a few like this in a file somewhere
The New Testament was originally written in Aramaic, not Greek. And that makes a whole lot of sense. Jesus, His Apostles, and the earliest Christians were Semites, speaking the Semitic language of Aramaic – the main tongue of Jesus’ day.
Ethan at AHR – made this claim all the time However – the Dead Sea Scrolls were in Hebrew and Greek – few Aramaic texts The Nag Hammadi – was in Coptic – which is Egyptian Greek
He lists dozens of errors in the NT text if the Greek was primary.
My primary language is English – yet dozens of errors
I was hoping to find a Messianic Jew who reads the NT and OT in Hebrew, to ask him questions about salvation in Yeshua. But have not found any so far.
I strongly suggest - Michael Rood - he speaks volumes to me these days
If the NT was written in Greek as primary, we should find words that cannot be written in Hebrew, using the Hebrew word set from the torah only (Moses time).
Unless the hand of God is on the text and there are even more amazing similarities we haven’t even found yet
The question one should ask, is WHY is this necessary to our salvation,
It has none – zero
Hence the Greek words are to be lined up with Hebrew, so the words personified come through.
Ge 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. (KJV)
Jeff Benner makes this verse very different, the Hebrew says it differently.
!(ms)~ Do to~ you(ms) Vessel Tree~ s Gopher Nest~ s you(ms)~ will~ Do At the~ Vessel and~ you(ms)~ did~ Cover At~ her from~ House and~ from~ Outside in~ the~ Covering
I don’t see it
The truth as I see it - IMO - Little Jimmy and his parents are being tested in the Great Contest
Correct. Look at what happened to Job, lost his children, for no reason, just because Satan did not want his witness of GOD.
Hmmmm? – just a point – what did satan want with Job – nothing – he had never even considered him God said – get him
Quote: "I am new to your method - I learned to translate Greek in high school
I still use this same method - looking at some text with unknown vocabulary you are require to cycle through different versions of a word base meaning to fit a context.
Teach me your method:
Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
What does this passage mean according to your method? I am especially interested in the use of "kathistemi".
Rom 5:19 ὥσπερ γὰρ διὰ τῆς παρακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἁμαρτωλοὶ κατεστάθησαν οἱ πολλοί, οὕτω καὶ διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται οἱ πολλοί.
Notice the Greek here has punctuation – really helps Notice – KJV word choice is moved around to find English sentence structure
The Greek here actually says As for by - the disobedience –genative of, though, by one man – sinners – were made – of the many outw through the obedience – gen again through, by one man – innocence – were made – of the many
Rom 5:19 (KJV) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
γάρ – gar - A primary particle; properly assigning a reason (used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles): - and, as, because (that), but, even, for indeed, no doubt, seeing, then, therefore, verily, what, why, yet.
ὥσπερ - hōsper - From G5613 and G4007; just as, that is, exactly like: - (even, like) as. G5613 – ὡς - hōs - Probably adverb of compound from G3739; which how, that is, in that manner (very variously used as shown): - about, after (that), (according) as (it had been, it were), as soon (as), even as (like), for, how (greatly), like (as, unto), since, so (that), that, to wit, unto, when ([-soever]), while, X with all speed. G4007 – περ -per - From the base of G4008; an enclitic particle significant of abundance (thoroughness), that is, emphasis; much, very or ever: - [whom-] soever.
διά – dia - - A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: - after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition itretains the same general import.
εἷς – heis - (Including the neuter [etc.] ἕν hen); a primary numeral; one: - a (-n, -ny, certain), + abundantly, man, one (another), only, other, some. See also G1527, G3367, G3391, G3762.
ἄνθρωπος - anthrōpos - From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.
παρακοή - parakoē - From G3878; inattention, that is, (by implication) disobedience: - disobedience.
πολύς, πολλός - Including the forms from the alternate “pollos”; (singular) much (in any respect) or (plural) many; neuter (singular) as adverb largely; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely: - abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft (-en [-times]), plenteous, sore, straitly. Compare G4118, G4119.
καθίστημι - kathistēmi - From G2596 and G2476; to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set. G2596 – κατά - … In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity. G2476 - ἵστημι - A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up).
ἁμαρτωλός - hamartōlos - From G264; sinful, that is, a sinner: - sinful, sinner.
οὕτω - houtō - Or, before a vowel, οὕτως houtōs hoo'-toce. From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like (-wise), no more, on this fashion (-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.
καί – kai - Apparently a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so, then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words: - and, also, both, but, even, for, if, indeed, likewise, moreover, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yea, ye
ὁ, ἡ, τό - ho hē to - The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
ὑπακοή - hupakoē - From G5219; attentive hearkening, that is, (by implication) compliance or submission: - obedience, (make) obedient, obey (-ing).
εἷς – again
πολύς, πολλός – again
καθίστημιas – again
δίκαιος – dikaios - From G1349; equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous).
First translation
(γάρ) – A primary particle; properly assigning a reason (used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles): - and, as, because (that), but, even, for indeed, no doubt, (ὥσπερ) - - just as, that is, exactly like: - (even, like) as. (G4007 – περ ) -per - From the base of G4008; an enclitic particle significant of abundance (thoroughness), that is, emphasis; much, very or ever: (διά) – primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: - after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, εἷς – a primary numeral; one: ἄνθρωπος - manfaced, (Mind-Body) that is, a human being: παρακοή - that is, (by implication) disobedience: - disobedience. καθίστημι - to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set. G2596 – κατά - … In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity. G2476 - ἵστημι - A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), οὕτω – the ὑπακοή -; attentive hearkening, that is, (by implication) compliance or submission: - obedience, (make) obedient, obey (-ing). εἷς – again πολύς, πολλός – again καθίστημιas – again δίκαιος – equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous).
Second translation
A primary particle; properly assigning a reason (used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles): - This is a ‘If –then’ – or cause and effect
First condition because, for indeed, no doubt, - just as, that is, exactly like, as. - significant of abundance (thoroughness), that is, emphasis; much, very or ever: - primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through … because of (that), …, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, …, thereby, therefore, - one - manfaced, (Mind-Body) that is, a human being: - the - (by implication) disobedience: - disobedience. – many, much, plenteous -to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, … make, ordain, set. (with distribution or intensity.) abide, appoint, , continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), - sinners
Second condition (the) attentive hearkening, that is, (by implication) compliance or submission: - obedience, obey (-ing). - one - many, much, plenteous - to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, … make, ordain, set. (with distribution or intensity.) abide, appoint, , continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), - equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous).
Third translation
One the one hand Indeed, no doubt, because - - significant abundance of emphasis throughout – because of , caused by, for the reason of - one Mind-Body Human being’s – THE - disobedience – many – permanently designated, appointed, ordained (with distribution intensity) - sinners
On the other hand because of THE- attentive hearkening, compliance, submission, obedience, - one- many – permanently designated, appointed, ordained (with distribution intensity)- equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, right (-eous).
Fourth translation
One the one hand - There is absolutely no doubt – The disobedience - one man caused – many - permanently designated, appointed, ordained – sinners
But – on the other hand - because of THE attentive harkening, submission, obedience – of one – many - permanently designated, appointed, ordained - innocent, holy, just,
Fifth translation
One the one hand – There is absolutely no doubt that The disobedience of one man caused many to be permanently ordained as sinners
But, on the other hand, because of THE submission / obedience of one, many = (will be – future perfect) permanently ordained as innocent
Rom 5:19 (ASV) For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one shall the many be made righteous.
Here - I disagree with my ASV There are only two articles - THE disobedience and THE obedience Of THE one - is not right in the Greek - it just says - of one
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