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Post by Dave on Aug 14, 2013 1:35:32 GMT -5
Now you know why I call it Pondering Confusion - all things are related and interwoven to the point it becomes hard to separate them.
Started out talking about end-time and he we are talking about aliens and UFOs.
I have a few stories of my own and I have no idea what the UFO/Alien controversy is like in Australia So, let me ask you this, Steve.
You are the pastor of your church. You have a member that has been by your side ans supported your ministry for years. He is considered an elder in your church. Then he come to you one day, completely out of character, and asked your help because both he and his wife had an encounter of the 3rd kind.
Ask me privately and Ill share with you the real life story of this event and how it was handled here.
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Stella
Junior Member
Use me O Lord
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Post by Stella on Aug 14, 2013 11:47:23 GMT -5
I am not sure, but I doubt that any of my Amish friends or anyone in or Mennonite Community believe these UFO stories as space men.Our elders say that because we do not have first hand knowledge of these event only proves that we protected by God and are not bothered by demonic beings.
I have never heard of anyone having an experience like that. I don't how we would react, if we did. I think our elders would see it as demonic. But I am only guessing.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 14, 2013 17:21:49 GMT -5
Sure there might be so Black Ops antigravity craft flying around, but they would have had to been flying in the 1920s and 30s. Hi Dillon, You make a good point - if it is true. Sightings and reportings of the UFO phenomena have occurred concurrent with the aerospace-aviation industry. Is this a coincidence? Some people today see the lockness monster and the Yeti. Some people believe that Jesus visits them and talks to them on a daily basis. Some people believe that demons possess their homes, cars, computers, etc. Some people believe in little green men from Mars. A belief in something - even a sighting of something - does not in itself vindicate the vision. It is a curious thing that "aliens" just happen to appear at certain times and then disappear for hundreds or thousands of years. It is a curious thing that sightings have mimicked popular science fiction novels. It is a curious thing that "aliens" play hide and seek with humans. It is a curious thing that "alien" technology has increased with the same rapidity as human technology. I believe that the UFO hoax is part of the end-time deception. The multi-nationals and governments are priming humans with the belief in evolution and aliens simultaneously. It is a plan to get human consciousness focused on extra terrestrials instead of God. It is a decoy. It will be used, IMO, to introduce new radical anti-god policies throughout the world. "He will use the people of an alien god to defend the fortresses; he will confer great honours on those whom he acknowledges, by giving them wide authority and by parcelling the country out for rent." (Daniel 11:39) This is only my opinion. You are welcome to believe in aliens if you wish - everyone is free to believe whatever they like. God Bless Steve
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Post by Dave on Aug 14, 2013 22:20:56 GMT -5
It is a curious thing that "aliens" just happen to appear at certain times and then disappear for hundreds or thousands of years. Personal opinion, but I don't believe this to be a correct statement. The Hindu Vedic predates Sumeria and Egypt, which are of a much earlier time than the South American visitors. The Nasca lines were drawn around the same time as Christ walked on earth. Alexander the Great has two separate UFO encounters in 329 AD. UFOs were reported at the Siege of Sigiburg in 776 AD. Flying disc objects are painted into 15th and 16th century art. Admirall Willem Blaeu reported them on aoorox. 1600. Thomas Sandby, founder of the British Royal Academy of Science, watch a UFO from Windsor castle with King George III in 1783. The Aurora Texas incident happened in 1897. These report have been consistent throughout all of recorded history. In my writings i say if someone reports something, big deal. But if multiple people report the exact same thing the report becomes more valid. If multiple people from multiple locations over multiple time periods - well then then has to be something to it. For me, I do not see these events as reports of little green men from another planet, as commonalty believed. That version of event doesn't coincide with scripture. However, scripture does tell us that we are watched and interfered with by spiritual powers. Jacques Vallee the author of Europe's project Blue Book concluded after 15 years of study, that these events are visitation by dimensional creatures. For me this is the same play on vocabulary to say, heavenly creatures, or not-so-heavenly creatures if you like. If the devil came out tomorrow and said here I am, the choice would be too obvious. instead I see these visitations, and/or visions as manipulation by the opposition. So, I agree with the alien HOAX for end-time as you say, but qualify that as a demonic illusion and it is not a new development, but has been with mankind since the flood. Steve, back up a few post and answer my question, How would you respond if a credible person came to you with a story of a personal encounter?
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Post by Virginia on Aug 14, 2013 23:46:32 GMT -5
UFO's used to be small 8 ft round objects. However, the UFO seen over Phoenix in 1997 ( seen by thousands of people including Gov Symington, was a gigantic triangle shaped object big enough to hold 1000 people. Why so large. Are these UFO's dropping off beings to hide out until the time is right.
There is a mural of George Washington in the capital building with a UFO painted in the sky. WHY?
Carvings in ancient Egypt not only show UFO's but airplanes and submarines. These people could only carv what they are seeing as there was no education or knowledge of engineering.
When the Bible talks about flying chariets, they are describing UFO's.
Jonah--not swallowed by a fish but--taken aboard a USO (submerible UFO's) and after 3 days--released.
The city of Atlantis was a large UFO that simply lifted off just before the sunomi hit. Homer never said exactly where it was because it moved around. He only said the general area.
This ought to get you guys stirred up.
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Post by Dave on Aug 15, 2013 11:17:33 GMT -5
Demons and evil spirits are still at work today, wreaking havoc wherever they can. They have a limited functionality; which is related to enticing our desires and imaginations to believe what is false and do what is wrong. Tell me what you consider "limited functionality"This is why I ask: The Mormon Church was created by Joseph Smith, who had a vision by the angel Mormo to where he could dig up six golden plates, the sword of Labian, and the Urman and Therman. The urman and Therman were two quarts crystals that when he put them on he could read and translate the golden plates and that translation became - "The Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ" Associated with the Mormon Church are 8 Miracles The first is unverifiable, but Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus standing hand in hand. For me this is inconsistent with the bulk of OT and NT teachings. Moses was told that no man could see God. Moses only saw the Glory of God as it passed before him. Stephan in the Book of Acts also sees the Glory of God standing next to Jesus in heaven. Joseph Smith saw God the man. The other seven miracles happened as the as the body of the Mormon follows marches across America from Illinois to Utah (running from the law and the Missouri merchants that wanted to kill them) One miracle is when Joseph Smith healed >40 children at once because he prayed over them. Another was when 3 lost girls walked through a field of rattle snakes without being bothered. These event plus the 5 other that I don't remember help to solidify the church as validated by god. Within months the Mormons had a huge influx of new members that came from norther Europe to join them because of these miracles. Or, and by the way, if you didn't know this before; but the Mormon Church is the only church approved bt Jesus Christ. If you are not a Mormon, you are a lost soul. Are demons capable of performing miracles?
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steve
Junior Member
Posts: 76
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Post by steve on Aug 15, 2013 18:39:08 GMT -5
Steve, back up a few post and answer my question, How would you respond if a credible person came to you with a story of a personal encounter? Hi Dave, I really believe that UFO's are a modern phenomena related to secret technologies of multi-nationals and governments (M-N & G). I believe people really do experience events; but these "events" are of human origin, not alien. M-N & G are experimenting with these technologies as a means of promoting evolutionary beliefs in extra-terrestrials, and to also develop newer high-tech weapons, transport, etc. I do not say that people are lying; but that they are deceived about what they are seeing. Ancient beliefs in star-men (angels) coming from other planets is a convenient means to show continuity of alien ideology. It is a modern re-invention that was engineered based on the idea that evolution should have spawned other life-forms in other parts of the universe. Hitler's Foo Fighters were a stepping stone to creating this modern philosophy. I can offer this as my opinion, that is all. If people still want to believe in aliens, spawned by evolution, that is fine with me. I really don't care that much. I don't believe in evolution or aliens, but if others do... then that's their business. I simply state my reasons for not believing in aliens. I do believe in other life forms, though. God has made many different kinds of spirit creatures that have been mistaken for aliens. God Bless Steve
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steve
Junior Member
Posts: 76
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Post by steve on Aug 15, 2013 19:01:27 GMT -5
Tell me what you consider "limited functionality" Demons are no longer able to deceive people the way they were initially able to. For instance: a/ Satan's first recorded act of defiance was to materialize into a serpent and speak to Eve. I do not think demons can still materialize into animals and speak to humans. If they can, it is not reported, which is odd. b/ Demons are no longer able to take on human form and procreate as they had done at the time of Enoch. If they are doing this, it is unreported, which is odd. These are just two examples of limited functionality that demons have. I believe there several other limits also; their power is in deception; it is not in real "power". Are demons capable of performing miracles? They cannot move cars or buildings around in space. They cannot set off volcanoes or earthquakes. They cannot make it flood. They have limited functionality. Their "miracles" are subjective - like magicians can do "miracles". Those who believe in these signs, like healings, are seduced by their own desire to believe. If a demon can perform a miracle, such as moving a bed, or moving a cup in a "haunted house"; then why do they not evaporate churches? or why did they not protect Hitler? or why do they not reveal where diamonds or treasures are found? They do not because they cannot. They have tricked the world into believing that they have extraordinary power. They do not. They are a bunch of small-time charlatans with a magic-wand. They prey on children and the mentally disabled. They are pathetic cowards who take advantage of weaknesses, and they exploit delusions. God Bless Steve
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Post by Richard on Aug 15, 2013 20:14:40 GMT -5
If a demon can perform a miracle, such as moving a bed, or moving a cup in a "haunted house";
Is that a miracle? Is a parlor trick a miracle? Telekinesis did not heal the Mormon children in 1839. Possessions and manipulation are more subtle and just as effective.
then why do they not evaporate churches?
Haven't they accomplished this already? Evolution has done more to dilute Biblical Creation and any amount of violence. Jehovah's witness deny Christ was God incarnate. Why evaporate the church when you can just use the system for your own gain.
why did they not protect Hitler?
Perhaps they were finished with him. Let's pretend that Hiltler was evil and he won the war and Europe turned into a Nazi mega-nation. Wouldn't it polarize the good/evil conflict, empowering both sides. Only by loosing could that evil infect the rest of the world with the UN. Only by loosing could the remaining (surviving) Jews been empowered to form the Zionist movement that gave us Israel If Hitler would have won the war, Switzerland and the World Bank, would have lost their anonymity.
why do they not reveal where diamonds or treasures are found?
The more seductive treasurers are FAME and POWER. Political office, World Bank, Hollywood.
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steve
Junior Member
Posts: 76
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Post by steve on Aug 16, 2013 0:13:43 GMT -5
Is that a miracle? Is a parlor trick a miracle? If demonstrating power over matter, such as partying the Red Sea, is not a miracle, then what is? Perhaps we are talking about two different things? Telekinesis did not heal the Mormon children in 1839. Possessions and manipulation are more subtle and just as effective. I think I have already affirmed this. Evolution has done more to dilute Biblical Creation and any amount of violence. Jehovah's witness deny Christ was God incarnate. Why evaporate the church when you can just use the system for your own gain. I think I have already affirmed this. You seem to be arguing against me yet at the same time agreeing with what I have already stated. I do not understand what you are trying to say? God Bless Steve
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Post by Dave on Aug 16, 2013 2:15:42 GMT -5
I think we are having an issue of semantics here. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that we are from different countries that we see the vocabulary differently.
Miracle - Moving a cup in a haunted house is not a miracle, but parting the Red Sea is - it all has to do with scale. Healing a group of sick children with a prayer is not a parlor trick.
Steve said, I do not think demons can still materialize into animals and speak to humans. If they can, it is not reported, which is odd.
The American Indian culture is full of shape shifters. David Ike has made shape shifting Reptilians common vocabulary Many psychopaths claim voices told them to kill Roger Morneu even says it more specifically I think these things are reported - if you deny the bulk of reports then your conclusions doesn't consider all the evidence.
Steve said, Demons are no longer able to take on human form and procreate as they had done at the time of Enoch. If they are doing this, it is unreported, which is odd.
Who is Satan's Seed as referred to in Genesis 3:15. Procreate? Although there are unverified reports of alien babies - most of the reports are of cloning. Cloning is reported in Dulce NM, and Las Alamos NM. Many of the abductee's stories are of genetic sampling. Hybrids is the name of the game. I think these things are reported - if you deny the bulk of reports....
Steve said, I simply state my reasons for not believing in aliens. I do believe in other life forms, though. God has made many different kinds of spirit creatures that have been mistaken for aliens.
See - right here is a vocabulary and semantic confusion: You don't believe in aliens - but you do acknowledge that the heavens are full of life forms that were not born on earth. By definition are these not alien? AND - before you say, "you know what I meant" - Let's pretend you and I are together. You a Bible person and me not. We see something together. You say it was an angel, but I call it a alien. How can you turn around and accuse me of making up what I saw just because I choose different vocabulary.
Here is the point. If David Ike saw something, no one could ever convince him that he didn't see it. Let's say 10 people saw the same event, most likely we would hear 10 different versions of that event. If some use different vocabulary than you - are they mistaken?
Steve said, Those who believe in these signs, like healings, are seduced by their own desire to believe.
I don't think I understand his statement. Are you saying healings are impossible? Either these people were not healed and everyone was mistaken- or - they were healed and it could have only been by God's hand - therefore Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and you are a lost soul because you are not a Mormon. Personally, I think your limited functionality demons are responsible for the healings.
Steve said, It is a curious thing that "aliens" play hide and seek with humans.
Actually, this is evidence of demonic visitation and not space men from another planet. This hide and seek game has been going on since Moses was in the wilderness, throughout history, and currently today. Physical beings would not have stayed this long. What more could they learn by continued observation. But we are Biblicaly told of beings whose job it is to Watch us, interfere with us, delay our spiritual development, who are required to be clandestine.
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steve
Junior Member
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Post by steve on Aug 16, 2013 20:14:00 GMT -5
Steve said: I do not think demons can still materialize into animals and speak to humans. If they can, it is not reported, which is odd.
Dave said: The American Indian culture is full of shape shifters. Steve's comment: The American Indian culture also uses hallucinogenic drugs.
Dave said: David Ike has made shape shifting Reptilians common vocabulary. Steve's comment: David Ike is hardly what I would call credible; he is a propaganda agent for weird and eccentric ideas (IMO).
Dave said: Many psychopaths claim voices told them to kill. Steve's comment: As I already said; they prey on the weak and vulnerable: hardly a demonstration of strength.
Steve said: I do believe in other life forms, though. God has made many different kinds of spirit creatures that have been mistaken for aliens.
Dave said: You don't believe in aliens - but you do acknowledge that the heavens are full of life forms that were not born on earth. By definition are these not alien? Steve's comment: Aliens, in the common vocabulary, are part of the evolution paradigm - representing other organically evolved life forms in other parts of the universe. To begin with..., I do not believe in evolution, and I do not believe that any other life forms exist other than what the bible portrays.
Dave said: You say it was an angel, but I call it a alien. How can you turn around and accuse me of making up what I saw just because I choose different vocabulary. Steve's comment: Wait a minute... I do not accuse you of anything. I sincerely apologize if my language was mistaken for an accusation. I think what some people call a spaceship is actually technology from humans on earth; and I think what some people call "aliens" are actually spirits. The whole issue is rather mute to me; as I don't really care too much if people believe in alternative realities. We go through many stages of error over the span of our lives. What a person believes today might be different tomorrow.
Steve said: Those who believe in these signs, like healings, are seduced by their own desire to believe.
Dave said: I don't think I understand his statement. Are you saying healings are impossible? Either these people were not healed and everyone was mistaken- or - they were healed and it could have only been by God's hand - therefore Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and you are a lost soul because you are not a Mormon. Personally, I think your limited functionality demons are responsible for the healings. Steve's comment: Some healings are genuine, some are not. Most healings are psychosomatic, but it is demons that have influenced the psycho part.
Steve said: It is a curious thing that "aliens" play hide and seek with humans.
Dave said: Actually, this is evidence of demonic visitation and not space men from another planet. Steve's comment: I agree!
God Bless Steve
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Post by Dave on Aug 16, 2013 23:32:17 GMT -5
This is interesting – he said - she said
Steve said: I do not think demons can still materialize into animals and speak to humans. Dave said: The American Indian culture is full of shape shifters. Steve's comment: The American Indian culture also uses hallucinogenic drugs.
Dave’s comeback – Your example only holds water if the Indians only see shape shifters concurrent with drug use. My family have spent 1 ½ years on the Colville Indian reservation. Melyndia Covington, a member to this forum, is full blooded and traditional. Apart from current drug abuse issues - hallucinogenic drugs were specific to the Arapaho and Apache (Arizona, NM, Oklahoma, Texas)– ½ of a contentment away from – the shape shifters of the Pacific Northwest (Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana).
Dave said: Many psychopaths claim voices told them to kill. Steve's comment: As I already said; they prey on the weak and vulnerable: hardly a demonstration of strength.
Dave’s comeback – didn’t you say - I do not think demons can still materialize into animals and speak to humans. So, do they speak to humans or not. You cannot have it both ways.
Dave said: You say it was an angel, but I call it a alien. How can you turn around and accuse me of making up what I saw just because I choose different vocabulary. Steve's comment: Wait a minute... I do not accuse you of anything. I sincerely apologize if my language was mistaken for an accusation.
Dave’s comeback – I didn’t think you did accuse – “It was a what if question” –
Angels and demons + whatever else is out there, DO NOT COME FROM EARTH, therefore they are alien. If we see the same thing – and you say it was an angel, or demon; but I say it was an alien. We are both correct, therefore you cannot say my story is mistaken AND you have no support for it only being a human technological event. His was the point I was trying to make. But as you see vocabulary can become a trap.
If you go so far as to say – that credible people, such as, astronauts, cosmonauts, 3 US Presidents, airline pilots, and many more are mistaken about what they have seen and chalk it up to just human technological events. Then you must also be suspect of theological events such as, the Prophesies of Fatima, Christian Stigmatas, Jacob’s ladder, the vision of Ezekiel, or angels appearing to shepherds as technological events – many people do.
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steve
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Post by steve on Aug 17, 2013 3:17:58 GMT -5
This is interesting – he said - she said... LOL God Bless Steve
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2013 11:24:32 GMT -5
The statement was made that: They (demons and evil spirits) cannot move cars or buildings around in space. They cannot set off volcanoes or earthquakes. They cannot make it flood. They have limited functionality. Their "miracles" are subjective - like magicians can do "miracles".
I believe that the powers against humanity are very powerful forces indeed. The Archon, the Nephilim, and the Watchers (who have various names and forms, Giants, Grigori, some of human hybrid, some forms alien to earth, some forms visiting us from other dimensional localities of reality (heavens), some visiting us from within our own universe) are capable of performing miracles on a biblical scale; for example, performing a (good act) in the outright miraculous healing of the sick so that thousands end up following a ministry of a false prophet.
In fact, I think it dangerous to deny that the opposition has power. Just as the people wrapped up in the religion of science want to limit God's omnipotence, thereby limiting God’s ability and power, downplaying creation and the flood to fairy tales and myths; the downplaying the of oppositions ability also minimizes there capability to deceive us.
The anit-Christ: (which in Greek, does not mean against Christ – but pseudo Christ – false Christ)
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2 Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
he maketh fire come down from heaven And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles he had power to give life unto the image of the beast the image of the beast should both speak, and cause
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