Are we in the end-times?

[Richard]

Are we in the end-times?

I have made this point over and over. So, instead of making it a response again, I’ll make it a topic.

Mark 13:32 But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only.

NO ONE KNOWS! Therefore no one should be able to calculate it

The Seventh-day Adventist Church formed out of the movement known today as the Millerites. In 1831, a Baptist convert, William Miller began to preach that the Second Advent of Jesus would occur somewhere between March 1843 and March 1844, based on his interpretation of Daniel 8:14.

The Jehovah Witness thought the Second Coming has already occurred in 1879 and that 1914 was the end of the world. WWI helped to convert many people to their cult. They changed their end-times date to 1918 and then 1925.

Many WWII Jews thought Hitler was the Abomination and Desolation spoke of in the Book of Daniel.

Today, this 1948 Fig Tree nonsense had many people think that 1988 was the end. Then it was 2000, then 2012. Now people are talking about 2017/2018 or 2025.

Remember the Heaven’s Gate cult of California in 1997?

Remember Harold Camping's Family Christian Radio Ministries' predictions for May 21st, 2011?

America may fall, Israel may fall, we might even receive a meteor strike, WWIII might come and go, or even a worldwide famine and still nothing happens, just as it did in 1843, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1945, 1988, 2000, and 2012.

What does all this prediction stuff actually serve?

It proves that we Christian who buy into this end-times mania don’t actually believe the words of Christ as spoken in Mark 13:32 or Matthew 24:36, because we keep trying to calculate it mathematically. Sure, the Beast of Revelations has the planet in its grip. Sure, Social Security Numbers, Debit Cards, and RFID chips look like the mark of the beast. Sure, a worldwide pandemic or famine is probably in our near future. Sure, a worldwide war is on our horizon. But does any of this evidence more evident to end-times than 1945, or any date in history? I am even sure the Christians dyeing in the Roman Coliseum thought it was the end of the world.

What does all this prediction stuff actually serve?

The Millerites were absolutely wrong and damaged the image of the Christian faith.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses were wrong and damaged the image of the Christian faith.
Y2K never happened and all those fanatics were judged crazy.
2012 didn’t happen and all those fanatics were judged crazy.

What will happen to the credibility of the Christian faith, with all its current end-times ministries, by 2050 and we are all still here and nothing has happened?

In the meantime, as in any time throughout history, we just have to live our lives in faith and minister to one another and our neighbors as best we can.

Are you ready? Are your loved ones ready?

Personally, I am of the mind that pending catastrophes (worldwide famines or pandemics, meteor strikes or major earth changes) that cause tremendous loss of life (100s of millions or even billions) will cause such an emotional stir in the people that the world may see a religious revival as never before. This is the fig tree that I am waiting to see bloom. The spiritual fruit of the vine which is Christianity.

Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=239&page=2#ixzz2bGWTyMJl

[steve]

That was a great comment, Richard. The end-times is a very difficult subject. I personally think we are at the boundary for that time; not due to calculations, but due to the observations. Earthquakes in rapid succession over the course of a generation, along with international wars, international diseases, and the main flag... the ability man has today, for the first time ever, to completely destroy all life through a nuclear domino effect. "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved." This speaks of a unique time where it was possible for all flesh to be destroyed. It is only since WW2 that this possibility has ever become real. Of course, it may not be for another 200 years, but that would make the prophecies somewhat redundant as signs if the same signs were repeated over and over again. They would no longer become unique signs.

Regardless, you make an excellent point.

God Bless
Steve

[Dave]

Redundant prophecies

As an American, I agree that the world in approaching a global reset. The US Dollar will collapse, causing a global conflict, which will upset the food supply, and then a global pandemic to follow. I think this is obvious to everyone. If there was a future for the US Government to plan for it would. Instead it is spending like there is no tomorrow.

Regardless if it is instigated by the English Empire (not the same as the British Government), or the global banking elite - something like a global reset is on the horizon. It is easy to read and end-time scenario into all that - however prophesies would only be redundant if they were seen correctly the first time around.

Chernobyl, which is in the Ukraine, is translated as WORMWOOD in the Ukrainian Bible.(Rev 8:11)

1/3rd of all the ocean faring ships were sunk during WWII (Rev 8:9)

Earth will pass through Comet ISON's debris field this November and again in 5 months (Rev 9:1-11) Some are calling it Planet 7X and even Nibiru

Sure there has been an increase in earthquakes 4.0-8.9. Sure there are wars and rumors of wars. But are we guilty of reading current events to fit scripture?

Example -

The New Madrid Fault here in America is capable of generating a 12.5 quake. If a quake happened that allowed the Pacific ocean to spill into the Nevada basin (the proverbial big one that submerges the California coastline) and graphically rearranges the west coast line of America, it would make Japan's 8.9 seem tiny.

A biblical catastrophic event that kills 1/3rd of the planet is grander in scale than anything we can imagine.

When these biblical prophesies are fulfilled, people may look back on the current events of today as so misunderstood. It has taken a few years, but Richard has actually changed my opinion on this matter. (I used to work at the same hospital as his wife 2002-2006 so we have been talking for a while)

This is why -

I cannot imagine what your culture is like - but here - the change society is so very obvious. My older sisters heard about creationism in public school. In the 1st and 2nd grades my class said a prayer in public school to start the day. I never heard the word "Gay" until I was in high school. -- Today prayer and creation in school is illegal Our court houses have had to take down all of the 10-Commandments. Our courts cannot ask you to swear an oath upon the Bible. Abortion is federally funded. Gay marriage isn't even the latest news, but who gets custody of the children of a gay divorce.

Television and movies of the 1950 were wholesome with positive messages. Today my children are not allowed to watch TV and my country is exporting filth to the word on a mass scale.

In 1950 this was a Christian Nation, today we say we are - but I live here and it is not! Our churches are empty and for sale. Ask anyone on the streets here if they believe in the Bible and they think your a freak. Creation has officially been usurped by the Big Bang and Evolution.

There has been a deliberate attack to dilute and pollute the Christian faith. I now agree with Richard that all this end-times talk is just more of that attack, because as he said - when we wake up and it is 2050 and nothing has happened yet - all our predicting will be seen as the final blow to any credibility Christianity has left.

[Dillon]

I read a story the other week about which countries are the most happy. The end of the story suggested that over the last 30 years the happiness index has fallen all across the globe. Lives are getting harder. More people are living below the imaginary poverty line.

Maybe as a people we are just more depressed these days and hoping for it all to be over. Therefore we see the end-time evidence, because we hope to see it.

I admit that after the death of our son, and then my divorce, I could have been happy if it just ended.

[steve]

Aug 8, 2013 16:08:58 GMT -5 Dillon said:

I admit that after the death of our son, and then my divorce, I could have been happy if it just ended.

Hi Dillon,

I am so sorry to hear of your tragedies. Depression, hurt and pain can indeed make us wish the end was here. Wishful thinking will not make it so.

The end-times must occur in someone's generation. If it is not ours, then it will be in the next generations. God does not wait for our own circumstances to align with prophecy; our pain and hurt in inevitable. There is a day and hour that only the father knows, and that day will not be turned back by sunshine or rain.

It is the circumstances occuring politically, economically and spiritually that alert me to this generation. The "beast" is aligning all governments of the world in to a unified position. The church is continually made redundant and secular. This is building up to a finale, in my opinion. The beast is not setting a stage for no reason.

Bless you
Steve

[Dave]

Here is the issue about all the end-time conversations.

Israel and the Fig Tree of Matthew 24

If Israel is the Fig Tree and it Blooms by becoming a Nation once again in 1948 - then we most certainly are in the end-time. However, Christ came to fulfill the OT. We are now in the age of the Gentile. Israel served its function. The promise to Abraham is complete.

Genesis 12:1 Now Jehovah said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee: 2 and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and be thou a blessing; 3 and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

‘make thee a great nation’ – Confusion remains over the meaning of a great nation The Jewish tribe has existed continuous since Abraham. They have stood united. They have undergone several civil wars, or internal conflicts, as with the power struggle between Saul and David. They have been enslaved y more than one foreign nation. AND they have been dispersed throughout the globe. However, they have never ruled the world, or even the known world, or even beyond their own boundaries.

‘and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.’ – As Christians we understand this to be –Christ! - Promise complete.

Genensis 12:5 … and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.
Genensis 12:7 And Jehovah appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land …

There is no doubt that God gave the land of Canaan to the descendants of Abraham If there was no more on the subject, then at this point in scripture the and belongs not only to Ismael and Isaac, but also to:

Genesis 25:1 And Abraham took another wife, and her name was Keturah. 2 And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.

Jews will argue that there is more on the subject because the very same promise is restated to Isaac.

Genesis 26:2 And Jehovah appeared unto (Isaac), and said, Go not down into Egypt. Dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of. 3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee. For unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father. 4 And I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these lands. And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.

Is God referring to Canaan or Egypt? Possibly both because God also says, ‘I will give all these lands.’ Again, I ask if this scripture is limited to just the boundaries of Canaan?

‘I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven’ – Is this a reference to Israel, which currently makes up only 1% of the world’s population? Hmmmm?
AND again the promise is - ‘and will give unto thy seed all these lands’ – all these land not just Canaan. ‘And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.’ – Christ.

Now here we are, Christians discussing scripture as it relates to the promise given to Abraham and Isaac.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We are now in the age of Christianity. The Promises to Abraham and Isaac have been fulfilled and completed The Fig Tree blooming is a reference to a revival of Christianity. Christians are the fruit of the vine.

Mark 11:13 And (Jesus Christ) seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for it was not the season of figs.

If this is a prophetic verse about Christendom then – for 2000 years Christendom has only produced leaves not fruit and the Fig Tree of Matthew 24 is a yet to occur revival.

If this passage in Mark is specific to Israel then the next verse also supports that the age of Israel is over.

Mark 11:14 And he answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit from thee henceforward for ever.

My Point – The Fig Tree of Matthew 24 that starts the prophetic countdown to the end-times has absolutely nothing to do with the 1948 political revival of the earthly government of Israel.

[steve]

Aug 10, 2013 13:07:31 GMT -5 Dave said:

Here is the issue about all the end-time conversations... Israel and the Fig Tree of Matthew 24

My Point – The Fig Tree of Matthew 24 that starts the prophetic countdown to the end-times has absolutely nothing to do with the 1948 political revival of the earthly government of Israel.

I agree (bolded); but there is room for other understandings of the fig-tree and the 'countdown'. The common idea of Israel's revival is generally a dispensational concept. This is an assumption that is not found in Matthew 24; it is an idea borrowed from Romans (mainly).

Israel may prophetically revive without any dispensational relationship, nor require any connection with Romans. Israel's revival is a fact, regardless of whether or not we find correlation in scripture; as are the revival of many of the ancient nations at this time. This fact makes our time very unique.

God Bless
Steve

[Dave]

As a Gnostic, I love to look into other writings from the era of Christ. Jesus preached to an audience that knew and understood the text of the Old Testament from a much different perspective than today. These people may have even seen Jesus speak, knew someone that heard Jesus speak or at least knew someone that knew someone.

In reference to the end-time, I post here some passages from the Dead Sea Scrolls. Are they Jewish or Christian? Even the experts don’t agree.

DDS Cave #1
Includes scrolls from the Book of Habakkuk and reveals astounding revelations regarding the end of the world. - “Advent of earthquakes in places that have never seen earthquakes, storms of immense, enormous magnitudes, flood conditions wiping out lives, property, animals and means of transportation. The scrolls also reveal that there will be governmental, political and religious deception from the highest level. They further reveal the military failure of world governments to reveal the presence of outer space visitors from the skies.”

Increased earthquake activity in the same old places versus in places that have never had a quake.
We think our storms are of ‘immense’ and ‘enormous’ magnitudes – imagine them worse!
Flood conditions of Sira Lanka, Japan, and India might be nothing in comparison.
Governmental, political and religious deception – the UN, EU, World Bank, and Obama? – Think worse!
Military failure of world governments? Sadly, this isn’t happening soon!
Space visitors?? – This was written prior to 68 AD – Some believe that the Essenes were a UFO contact group and use passages like this to support their theories.

From Cave #7 Scroll #1 Section Three
"The time will come when man's human intelligence will cease and will look to himself in order to solve the problems of the day. This time will come when mankind will excel in intelligence just as the Words of My Prophet Daniel warned." "His knowledge shall increase and will seek to rule not only this Earth but also the moon and other heavenly bodies which I have also created. When that day comes, many of you will look upon their works with great dismay. You will see how far they have departed from My Word and from My Love."

Science usurps Theology – were getting close but – “to rule not only this Earth but also the moon and other heavenly bodies” – is not in our near future. Another 1-200 years?

Additional Elements of Divine Intervention Revealed (Cave 7)
3. 8. "Also, in that day, you will enjoy Fellowship and Communion with those of my Children who dwell in the bowels of this orb. They will come forth freely and interchange information with you, which will add to your understanding of their existence. These, my other Children, will invite you to remain with them as you wish. You will enter their places of abode and you may leave their abode as freely as you wish."

Admiral Richard Byrd's and the North Pole?
Phil Schneider and Dulce NM?
DEEP UNDERGROUND MILITARY BASES – DUMBs?

4. …During the last days of civilization you shall witness many supernatural interchanges between spiritual people and the Divine Mind of Almighty God. There will arise a clear and distinct chain of command viewed by all who live on and in the planet Earth. These two main classes of people are comprised of those who posses God's Power and those who do not:

5. "Again, as I have spoken to you in times past in my word, I shall speak to you in three distinct manners: In night dreams, in visions of the day and night and by Divine Revelation. This I have promised you and this will be my bond to you. Believe it and know it for I speak these words with my mouth."

6. "You, my children, will perform exploits in my name. These exploits will include:
(a) Healings (b) Working of miracles (c) Performing the impossible"

7. "You will ascend to positions of high authority and will rule with a strong hand of power and authority. There will be many who look upon you as a novice and inexperience. But when they see and hear of your exploits they will stand back in complete awe and amazement, amazement in which you act and speak. They will be forced to recognize that all of your Gifts have come from My Hand."

If this is written about God and Christ then - Not apparent today from my perspective.
‘positions of high authority and will rule with a strong hand’ – if this is written to a false prophet, then the talk of aliens becomes a lot more interesting.

DDS Copper Scrolls Cave #3 (From the Old Testament Book of Obadiah)
The scrolls continue to reveal the coming change of world currency that will occur without warning. Physical and Spiritual healing will continue despite the warnings of silence by established religion. The secrets of longevity, as shared by friends from other worlds, will be accepted by many people on this planet. It speaks again of visits by earthquakes and the rich, lush, vast lands of serene beauty on the inner parts of this planet, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and many others. Also terms of warning, concerning the approaching plagues and destroying millions who remain on the Earth following the mass evacuation,, which will take place within a short period of time following the turn of this century.

Mass evacuation off-world? Science fiction? 1-200 in the future? Certainly not soon.The secrets of longevity, as shared by friends from other worlds. More talk of Aliens!


Again - let me say, regardless of authorship - this was all written prior to 68 AD!

Attachments:

[steve]

Very interesting, Dave. The end-time hysteria has been alive for a long time. It is no surprise, though; for our hope and faith is based on this future time.

Many, if not all of these DSS prophecies, could be said to be fulfilled today. Particularly in this time mankind "seek to rule not only this Earth but also the moon and other heavenly bodies." This has occurred, for the first time in history, in the post WW2 generations.

"When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." (Luke 21:28)

God Bless
Steve

[Dave]

Aug 12, 2013 17:07:28 GMT -5 steve said:

Many, if not all of these DSS prophecies, could be said to be fulfilled today. Particularly in this time mankind "seek to rule not only this Earth but also the moon and other heavenly bodies." This has occurred, for the first time in history, in the post WW2 generations.

Depends on how you interpret “to rule” other heavenly bodies!

A probe has taken a fly by images of Mercury, Venus, Ceres, Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune – do we rule them? We have landed probes on Mars and we have visited the Moon – do we rule them? We don’t even rule the depth of our oceans. Unbearable pressures and the Giant Squid make our stay on the bottom nothing more than a mere visit.

IF Mars is 100% totally unoccupied, at best, we could say that we have the dominate instrument on the planet, but that is about all.

Even though the common perception by the masses is that the Moon is 100% unoccupied, there is much evidence that it is not! Forget all those conspiracy theories and all of those images of things that could, or could not be, structures. Forget the first hand testimony of Neil Armstrong, Edgar Mitchel, and many more astronauts, both American and Russian. Forget all of that and spend a few open minded minutes with the documentary “Moon Rising.”

Of all the documentaries out there, this one is my favorite. I recommend watching it all, because it is all very well done. But if you want to get straight to the point - here are the links to “Moon Rising” part 6

youtu.be/SfpCBob8Ka8

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfpCBob8Ka8

Begin watching at 4:06. Excellent points are made at 4:36 and 6:59, with the punch line coming at 8:37 - 8:44.

After watching this, review the images of STS-75

youtu.be/ipopRUNoL3U

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipopRUNoL3U

or STS-75 clip from the Martyn Stubbs NASA Archives. Especially @ 0:29 – 1:10

youtu.be/KKn9IcgtYQ8

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKn9IcgtYQ8

I ask again, is the Moon 100% uninhabited and do we rule there?

If you answer, that all of this is just "imagination" and humbug. Then my next question to you will be: In what Biblical context, or theological perspective, do you explain away that the oldest recorded histories of Egypt, Sumar, India, and China all begining with space gods that came to earth, in the light of all ancient alien evidence and current alien/UFO evidence.

If you answer - that there might possibly something to it - then my next question will be: In your opinion, what are the Nephilim, Watchers, and Archon doing today?

Attachments:

[steve]

Aug 12, 2013 23:26:15 GMT -5 Dave said:

Depends on how you interpret “to rule” other heavenly bodies!

Hi Dave

We certainly "seek" to rule these bodies, and that is what the prophecy suggested. These heavenly bodies are photographed and analyzed by the multi-nationals and governments to determine how we can best exploit the resources.

Aug 12, 2013 23:26:15 GMT -5 Dave said:

Even though the common perception by the masses is that the Moon is 100% unoccupied, there is much evidence that it is not!

I haven't seen any credible evidence, but I understand why you might idealize this to be true. The "Moon Rising" doco did nothing for me, sorry.

Aug 12, 2013 23:26:15 GMT -5 Dave said:

I ask again, is the Moon 100% uninhabited and do we rule there?

YES and YES!!!

Aug 12, 2013 23:26:15 GMT -5 Dave said:

If you answer, that all of this is just "imagination" and humbug. Then my next question to you will be: In what Biblical context, or theological perspective, do you explain away that the oldest recorded histories of Egypt, Sumar, India, and China all beginning with space gods that came to earth, in the light of all ancient alien evidence and current alien/UFO evidence.

The ancient "recorded histories of Egypt, Sumar, India, and China" relating to spacemen was regarding the angels/Nephilim occupying earth prior to the flood. These legends grew to states of hysteria, just like the UFO concept today has excited the popular imagination and taken on a life of its own. The modern phenomena, I believe, is manufactured by multi-nationals and governments experimenting with new anti-gravity technologies.

Aug 12, 2013 23:26:15 GMT -5 Dave said:

If you answer - that there might possibly something to it - then my next question will be: In your opinion, what are the Nephilim, Watchers, and Archon doing today?

Demons and evil spirits are still at work today, wreaking havoc wherever they can. They have a limited functionality; which is related to enticing our desires and imaginations to believe what is false and do what is wrong.

These are my opinions: we are all entitled to our opinions. You have a faith which includes gnostic religion and aliens... I do not. That's ok. We are here on earth for the purpose of identifying our chosen beliefs and actions. When we are judged in the future and given a permanent body it will be determined on what beliefs and actions we used our current body for. There is no judgment from me. [glow=red,2,300]God is the judge[/glow]

God Bless
Steve

[Dave]

Steve said,
The ancient "recorded histories of Egypt, Sumar, India, and China" relating to spacemen was regarding the angels/Nephilim occupying earth prior to the flood. These legends grew to states of hysteria, just like the UFO concept today has excited the popular imagination and taken on a life of its own. The modern phenomena, I believe, is manufactured by multi-nationals and governments experimenting with new anti-gravity technologies.

So, in your opinion, all of the ancient Egyptian evidence, the structures at Abydose for example; and all of the cuneiform records of Sumar, plus all of the Hindu Vedic, Angkor Watt all survived the flood of Noah. Placing the flood not less than 3000 years ago. While the Tower of Babel, which was post flood dose not survive?

Or, are you saying that of the eight people that survived the flood carried with them such vivid tales of these space gods that 4 different post flood civilizations recreated them, in detail, not only creating the architecture but the religions?

Then you jump straight to current events.

Nasca lines in Peru, Records by Hannibal, Renaissance Art, The incident in Aurora Texas, Foo fighters of WWII, The Battle of LA. All of the ancient alien evidence between the two eras, which you have conveniently skipped over and ignored, are what? Products of 20th century experimentation with anti-gravity and time travel?

Explain your time line –

My time line goes like this:

Predeluvian era - Beings from heaven come to earth - Gen 6:1-4
Become the Nephilim, father the Watchers, and many mutant forms - i.e. Giants of human and animal
Teach humanity war, the science of war, sciences we call sorcery
Corrupt the planet to the point that humanity is in danger of surviving

The flood - The earth is catastrophically changed from a high pressure protoplanet into what we call home today.

Post flood earth is no longer habitable for the "Sons of God" - however their 1/2 breed children are allowed to return, but require vehicles to do so because of their 1/2 human construct. These are the space aliens that help humanity explode overnight into the ancient cultures we know as Egypt, Sumeria, and Vedic. However, due to infighting and conditions off-world, even they are pulled back; leaving their architectural evidence and their religious legacy.

However, pulled back is not the same as eliminated and evidence of their visitation has left its imprint on almost every age and culture since, right on up through the ages until our modern era.

Current events may seem like a dramatic increase in their activity, but possibly the only increase has been the posy WWII mega-media coverage of it.

[steve]

Aug 13, 2013 23:01:50 GMT -5 Dave said:

So, in your opinion, all of the ancient Egyptian evidence, the structures at Abydose for example; and all of the cuneiform records of Sumar, plus all of the Hindu Vedic, Angkor Watt all survived the flood of Noah. Placing the flood not less than 3000 years ago. While the Tower of Babel, which was post flood dose not survive?

All of these cultures were taught by the ancestors who survived the flood; eight souls. Like the gospels, which are 4 different testimonies, the accounts given by flood survivors became sensationalized by the descendants, much like the tales of saints and the forefathers become sensationalized. As the story spreads further afield, the story eventually becomes a Chinese whisper. The common thread in all these traditions is basically the same.

Aug 13, 2013 23:01:50 GMT -5 Dave said:

Then you jump straight to current events.

Nasca lines in Peru, Records by Hannibal, Renaissance Art, The incident in Aurora Texas, Foo fighters of WWII, The Battle of LA. All of the ancient alien evidence between the two eras, which you have conveniently skipped over and ignored, are what? Products of 20th century experimentation with anti-gravity and time travel?

The same old story has become immortalized in the minds of each successive generation, with each generation adding something from its own. A similar thing takes place with the Hulk, Superman and Batman... each generation tells the story afresh and adds to the fundamental lore. In the case of aliens (or visiting angels) the story has different lore and tradition to borrow from.

Aug 13, 2013 23:01:50 GMT -5 Dave said:

Explain your time line –

My timeline is conventional biblical chronology, except I personally accept the chronology offered in the Septuagint - not Masoretic. This adds about 1500 years to Adam. I do not have any problem with your alternative explanation.

God Bless
Steve

[Dillon]

I was a UFO skeptic for most of my life. I do not know if Dave's version of reality is anywhere close to correct. Actually I have no idea. But living in Colorado for the past 35 years has bee quite the education. I know of someone that claims to have been abducted. Her story has pretty much ruined her life. Not because it happened, but because she says it happened and wont recant her story. Dave and I both worked in Salida Colorado where in 1994 something flew over the city for 4 hours. Everyone saw it. The library has a video of it to check out.

South of us is San Luis Valley where cattle have been surgically mutilated overnight and left in the fields.

Further south of us is Dulce New Mexico. I have been in the area many times. The people who live there support the stories that come from there. Aged Indian women admit to seeing things. Why would the whole community lie.

Just west of there is the Casa Verde area where there have been more UFO sightings than anywhere in the world.

Sure there might be so Black Ops antigravity craft flying around, but they would have had to been flying in the 1920s and 30s.

My opinion about all this when Paul Hyler, the Canadian X-secretary of defense spoke out against Ronald Reagan saying, that America was going to get the world into a war with the aliens.

I have never seen anything myself, but people who just dismiss the possibility as imaginary are closed minded. That's my opinion. Because I know the people that I know and have read enough local news over the years make all those alien show on TV more believable for me.

[Dillon]

I don't know how to do one of those quote boxes, but as for the Hulk, Superman, and Batman none of them activated the US Army to fight a battle in the skies over LA which was witnessed by thousands of people.

Also, the Hulk, Superman, and Batman were not reported flying beside thousands of WWII pilots from America, Germany, and japan.