|
Post by loretta on Jul 20, 2013 12:59:22 GMT -5
Does anyone have any thoughts on this verse?
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jul 20, 2013 21:53:44 GMT -5
Mat 12:40 (KJV) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mat 12:40 (YLT) for, as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
1. It was not a whale – it was a fish 2. Given that God is omnipotent – Jonah could have literally been in the belly of a fish. 3. This is a factual story. Jesus quotes from this story, it is recorded in OT scripture, and it is even recorded in the Quran.
Quran 37:138-147 (138) Jonah too was one of the Envoys; (139) when he ran away to the laden ship (140) and cast lots, and was of the rebutted, (141) then the whale swallowed him down, and he blameworthy. (142) Now had he not been of those that glorify God, (143) he would have tarried in its belly until the day they shall be raised; (144) but We cast him upon the wilderness, and he was sick, (145) and We caused to grow over him a tree of gourds. (146) Then We sent him unto a hundred thousand, or more, (147) and they believed; so We gave them enjoyment for a while.
From the Book of Jonah it is obvious that Jonah was not obeying God. His sin was the cause of the chaos of the sea that was about to take the life of the innocent. Jonah was a sacrifice for those innocent. He was swallowed by the fish in front of all the men on the boat. Jonah was in the “bowels” of the fish for three days and nights. Then Jonah went on to save many others afterward.
All of it happened, by design, to foretell the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.
4. I can also see the metaphysical and therefore metaphorical side of this story. Christ was not stuck in the heart of the earth for three days and nights. We are told he was off preaching to the lost in hades/hell.
1Peter 3:18 because also Christ once for sin did suffer--righteous for unrighteous--that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit, 19 in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach,
So if Jesus was off somewhere else in spirit, Jonah also could have been off somewhere safe (whether he realized it or not).
From: an old Commentary on the Bible, by Adam Clarke, [1831], at sacred-texts.com
Jonah 1:1 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish - דג גדול dag gadol.
This could not have been a whale, for the throat of that animal can scarcely admit a man's leg; but it might have been a shark, which abounds in the Mediterranean, and whose mouth and stomach are exceedingly capacious. In several cases they have been known to swallow a man when thrown overboard.
Jonah 2:1 Then Jonah prayed - out of the fish's belly - This verse makes the first of the second chapter in the Hebrew text.
It may be asked, "How could Jonah either pray or breathe in the stomach of the fish?" Very easily, if God so willed it. And let the reader keep this constantly in view; the whole is a miracle, from Jonah's being swallowed by the fish till he was cast ashore by the same animal. It was God that had prepared the great fish. It was the Lord that spake to the fish, and caused it to vomit Jonah upon the dry land. All is miracle.
Jonah 2:2 Out of the belly of hell - Among the Hebrews שאול sheol means the grave, any deep pit, the place of separate spirits, etc. Here the prophet represents himself as in the bottom of the sea; for so sheol must be understood in this place.
In this commentary, we have Jonah literary in the belly of a fish AND figuratively in sheol – the Jewish grave, Catholic purgatory, and Greek hades, which gets translated as Christian hell.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jul 20, 2013 23:11:31 GMT -5
There is a Greek fable, most probably of Phoenician origin, which, bearing some similitude to the history of Jonah. Many argue the myth is based on the Jewish Scripture, borrowing miracles as it were for their own heroes of old. Interestingly both stories are from the same era in history.
Laomedon, king of Troy, having displeased Neptune, to appease him, was required to expose his daughter Hesione to be devoured by a sea-monster. She was chained to a rock, and was awaiting her fate at the next flux of the tide. In the interim Hercules slew the sea-monster, and delivered the princess. The scholiasts explain this in the following manner: While the princess was standing chained to the rock, expecting the greedy dog (καρχαρος κυων, the shark) to come and devour her, Hercules stood by ready armed; and when the monster came forward with open mouth, he jumped directly down his throat, and spent three days in cutting and hacking his entrails; and afterwards came out of the monster, with the loss of all the hair on his head. Cyril, in his comment, says this was occasioned by the incredible heat of the monster's stomach.
This is supposed to be the base story for a famous line in the poem Cassandra by Lycopron:
"Of the lion the offspring of three nights, which the fierce dog of Triton swallowed down greedily."
Another aspect of this era is the Greek religion based on Mithras. A Persian that was born of a virgin on December 5th, preached at age 12, had a ministry at age 30, had 12 disciples, killed upon a tree and rose from the dead in 3 days. Mithraism was widely practices in Greece and Macedonia during the 1st through the 4th centuries AD, which made their conversion to Christianity all that much easier.
Just as the story of Jonah or Hercules being in the belly of the beast for 3 days and nights made the Jesus story more tangible to the people of the 1st through the 4th centuries AD.
One more interesting item from this same time period, the same time period that the Jewish Old Testament ends, is the Mithras prophet Zoroaster from Iran. Zoroaster received a revelation about the one true God while starring into a flame. The whole point of the Zoroastrian religion is that there is only one true God and he is only pleased when we as individuals simply “Just do the right thing in all circumstances.” The flame of Zoroaster has been maintained and is still burning to this day in Kirk, Iran.
Roman Christendom deemed both of these religions as pagan and destroyed their temples and killed their priest – Yet – The Vatican was built upon a previous Mithras temple originally built in 600 B.C. – and - each Christmas Christians set out Nativity Scenes that include three Zoroaster Magi that came to worship the new born King of the Jews.
Persian Mithras 1400-1000 BC Laomedon, king of Troy 1310-1225 BC Jonah 793-753 BC Graeco-Roman Mithras 500-200 BC Zoroaster 500 BC
Just as today’s current events - be they end-times or not – are a culmination of many different societal and historic trends – so was world prepared for the Birth, Crucifixion, and Resurrection – by many different societal and historic trends, much more than just Judaism alone.
|
|
|
Post by loretta on Jul 21, 2013 10:51:07 GMT -5
Educational, as always! As far as Jesus being 3 days in the heart of the earth...the analogy implies a place surrounded by water, deep in the earth. Ezekiel 31:16-18 talks about the trees of Eden being in the nether parts of the earth. Could something grow there?
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jul 22, 2013 21:36:28 GMT -5
Ezekiel 31:16-18 talks about the trees of Eden being in the nether parts of the earth. Could something grow there? I guess it all depends on how you interpret for yourself the nether parts of the earth.If it is just a deep dark and damp cave, a big hole in the ground, then it would be hard to imagine anything green growing there (unless if you are a ‘Journey to the center of the Earth’ fan – then the trees might be giant mushrooms or something). But look at the versus above from Peter, because Christ was dead in the body, he was alive in the spirit and preached to the lost in the spirit realm of Hades/Hell . When Paul made his little trip into the spirit realm in 2 Corinthians 12, even he couldn’t be sure if it was in the flesh or just in spirit. This was a point that I was trying to make about Jonah being in the belly of the whale, his body might have been there trapped within a slime bubble or something, while he in spirit might have been off somewhere else safe and sound. Or he, in body, might have been somewhere else safe and sound. Usually, reference to the nether parts of the earth is a reference to the spirit realm of Hades/Hell. Formal Christendom only allows us two options as to spirit realm Heaven or Hell. But as a multidimensonalist I am open to the possibility of more than just the two allowed spirit real localities. The Secrets of Enoch 8:1 And those men took me thence, and led me up on to the third heaven, and placed me there; and I looked down-wards, and saw the produce of these places, such as has never been known for goodness. 2 And I saw the sweet-flowering trees and beheld their fruits, which were sweet-smelling, and all foods born by them bubbling with fragrant exhalation. 3 And in the midst of the trees that of life, in that place whereon the Lord rest, when he goes up into paradise; and this tree is of ineffable goodness and fragrance, and adorned more than every existing thing; and on all sides it is in form gold-looking and vermillion and fire-like and covers all, and it has produced from all fruits. 4 Its root is in the garden at the earth's end. 5 And paradise is between corruptibility and incorruptibility. Enoch certainly describes a lush green growing place and he aint talking about Hawaii! As for spiritual growth, the entire concept of catholic purgatory relates to proportional punishment for sin. The more sin = the more time spent in purgatory. The Catholic Church made millions of dollars selling patricians for expedited release from purgatory. Christ preached to the lost, in spirit, while his body was in the tomb. Evidently those individuals still had an opportunity for salvation, an opportunity to grow in spirit – although dead to this world.
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Jul 23, 2013 2:59:28 GMT -5
...the analogy implies a place surrounded by water, deep in the earth. In support of Dave's answer, remember that "waters" is often used as a metaphor for spirit. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jul 28, 2013 0:37:39 GMT -5
Serendipity
Each weekend I allow my daughters to take dad to the church of their choice. We Hit all the clubs sooner or later.
Back in June we showed up at Fishers Peak Community Church. The very next day their Vacation Bible School program started.
Last weekend we went to the Church of the Nazarene. The very next day their Vacation Bible School program started.
We do not plan these things - it is just coincidence (yea right).
The topic of this weeks Vacation Bible School - Jonah and the Whale!
"God just uses coincidence to maintain His anonymity." - Albert Einstein
|
|