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Post by Dave on Dec 28, 2023 13:51:14 GMT -5
Ellen G. White: Prophet or Pretender? | Full-length DocumentaryI watched your video - Ellen G. White: Prophet or Pretender? | Full-length Documentary Every second of it 8:00 – Ellen White denied being a prophet 9:30 - anyone claiming contact with the spirit world – is not of God 11:00- she claim contact with the spirit world and she is a prophet 11:50 – she claims that her writings are the inspired word of god 12:20 – Ellen White condemns spiritualism 13:15 – Ellen White claims a vision – then quotes the Koran – mediums do not contact the spirits of dead people they are talking to a Jinn / Archon that knows enough to trick you – then fill you with lies13:30- Ellen White says that evil spirit can shapeshift – appearing any from they choose When I say this is says this – Robert demands that King Solomon, Enoch, and John are wrong16:15 – Ellen White claims 2000 visions There are 11 vision of God within scripture, Zechariah eight visions Ezekiel six visions Ellen White claims 2000 visions – she is special Her husband witness 50 of them Doctors came to see if she was possessed17:45 – she described her experience as an out-of-body experience Moved to the spirit world Robert says this is impossible What she describes is exactly like the sleeping prophet Edgar Casey What she describes is exactly like shelly Winters – out-of-the-body experience Robert says they are both impossible19:00 Jer 23:15 Therefore thus says Adonai-Tzva’ot concerning the prophets: “I myself will feed them wormwood and make them drink poisoned water. For from the prophets of Jerusalem pollution has spread into all the land.” Jer 23:16 Thus says Adonai-Tzva’ot: “Do not listen to the words of prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into illusion, speaking a vision of their own heart and not out of the mouth of Adonai. Jer 23:17 They keep saying to those who despise Me, ‘Adonai has said, you will have shalom.’ To everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart they say: ‘No evil will come on you.’” She does not support Jewish monotheism She does not support the spirit or the spiritual – Yet this video says she is a prophet because she had spiritual out-of-the-body experiences She elevates satan to godhood – reviving the ancient Persian religion of Zoroasteriam – two gods (one tov and one ra) locked in a cosmic struggle over the ruler-ship of God’s Kingdom19:30 – Prediction that have come to pass SKIPPING THIS ENTIRE SECTION – IT IS A FALSE ANALOGYEdgar Case has a >90% accuracy rate – of the 10% - most are just unexplainable Jean Dixon solved 40 LA cold case murders – and located the bodies Nostradamus has had many correct predictions Alister Crowley made many correct predictions Prediction that have come to pass – does not mandate – “From God” 24:40 I there is only one church the Catholic Church 25:55 – 26:25 Ellen White defends the Roman Catholic Church as the true Christian religion We will all say 1- We believe in the Trinity 2-We believe in the bible 3- We believe in the resurrection 4- We believe salvation is through Jesus Christ Then she stands against it ? 30:36 – Ellen White speak of the appearance of evil spirits as demons Where is her satan god – Robert?21:00 – Are her prophesies consistent with scripture Plagiarizing the past is easy – her views of Israel and the end times are anti-scriptural error
33:30 – the video – suggest the work of a prophet is to promote scripture Why does she diminish god and elevate satan to godhood? Whay does she teach a god of tov + a god of ra – locked in a comic struggle for God’s kingdom?100% anti-Jewish monotheism 100% Catholic satan on steroids 100% Persian Zoroasterian35:00 – Practical health advice The Chinese beat her to all of this 100s of years earlier – DUH43:30 – she seemed like a good Christian A TRIBUTE TO HER MANY GOOD DEEDS 44:00 – she was known by her GOOD FRUITS – an expression Robert likes to use?Gnostic Cathars were known as the Pyrenees's Good-Men. Rome murdered them all – 1200 AD45:35 - A Prophet for the End46:45 – she say all of a prophet’s words must be in harmony with scripture 46:49 – the bible prove that in the last days there will be a pouring of the spirit upon the people – your daughter and young men will see vision and prophesy Robert – jumps up and down denying this as hard as he can – even prays against the Holy spirit Calls it all satanic48:14 – this videos proof – Ellen White’s health reforms The Chinese beat her to all of this 100s of years earlier – DUHMy discussion of my brief comments45:35 - A Prophet for the End – I agree500BC was an interesting change to the thinking (thoughts) of humanitySocrates dies in open forum teaching it is nt the end – but a passage to the spirit world 500BC Zoraster is born 500BC Mithras is born 400BC OT scripture ends 250BC Hebrew and Judaism is outlawed 160BC the Resurrection is added to Jewish theology 150BC the Temple is rededicated to the Lord 6BC Jesus Chirst is born – the First Coming 1700s First Great Awakening – Christianity becomes more spiritual – evangelistic – Pentecostal – personal 1800s – The Second Great Awakening – 2 alternative christianities based on Adventism – Miller/Ellen White + Charles Russell – 1 alternative Islam based on Adventism – Bahai – (same math – same scripture) 1 alternative New Testament (Joseph Smith) All three base on a cult of personality1945 end of WWII + Nag Hammadi Library 1947 Dead Sea Scrolls 1948 Israel 1952 Breton-Woods Agreement – America’s place in prophesy 73 years of free trade and peace Allowing 3rd world countries to survive and increase in population Allowing many countries to become 2nd world countries – prosperity Allowing 1st world countries to develop the weapons that can cause the end of the world Then 1986-2016 – America withdrew from the Middle East and Saudi Arabia 1979-2018 the Abrahamic accords – Israel in economic and military alliance with all the land between the Nile and the Euphrates 2022 China signs a military agreement with Iran in exchange for oil 2023 Iran signs a military agreement with Russia 45:35 - A Prophet for the End – I agree Am I moved?She does not support Jewish monotheism She does not support the spirit or the spiritual – Yet this video says she is a prophet because she had spiritual out-of-the-body experiences Then again declares anyone have a spiritual event is not of God 100% anti-Jewish monotheism 100% Catholic satan on steroids 100% Persian Zoroasterian I watched this video – every minuteCorrect she slams anyone have a spiritual event – except hers She claims here writings are the inspired word of God She didn’t say anything about Ezk 28 or your satan god
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Post by Dave on Dec 28, 2023 14:29:32 GMT -5
Ellen White quotes from the Koran13:15 – Ellen White claims a vision – then quotes the Islamic Koran – mediums do not contact the spirits of dead people they are talking to a Jinn / Archon that knows enough to trick you – then fill you with lies sunnah.com/bukhari:6213Some people asked Allah's Messenger about the fore-tellers. Allah's Messenger said to them, "They are nothing (i.e., liars)." The people said, 'O Allah's Messenger! Sometimes they tell something which comes out to be true." Allah's Messenger said, "That word which comes to be true is what a jinx snatches away by stealing and then pours it in the ear of his fore-teller with a sound similar to the cackle of a hen, and then they add to it one-hundred lies." Robert has been asked to explain Ellen White’s relationship to Bahai Islamic Advent mathHe pretends that he doesn’t understand the question Dave" Why does Ellen White use Islamic Advent math predicting the coming of the Islamic Mahdi? ROB" What is this? I have told you many times to ask the question differently, have no idea what you are saying. Duh – doges – avoid – pretend ignorance Asking a differ way – why does Bahai Islam use Ellen White’s Advent math to predict the coming of their Islamic Mahdi SDA
www.adventist.org/who-was-ellen-g-white/
Seventh Day Adventist believe that the their founder Ellen White is the most recent in the line of Messengers of God that stretches back beyond recorded time and that includes Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, and finally Ellen White.
whiteestate.org/devotional/hb/10_01/
How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?—Daniel 8:13.
The scripture which above all others had been both the foundation and the central pillar of the advent faith was the declaration: “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” (Daniel 8:14.) These had been familiar words to all believers in the Lord’s soon coming. By the lips of thousands was this prophecy repeated as the watchword of their faith. All felt that upon the events therein foretold depended their brightest expectations and most cherished hopes. These prophetic days had been shown to terminate in the autumn of 1844. In common with the rest of the Christian world, Adventists then held that the earth, or some portion of it, was the sanctuary. They understood that the cleansing of the sanctuary was the purification of the earth by the fires of the last great day, and that this would take place at the Second Advent. Hence the conclusion that Christ would return to the earth in 1844.
whiteestate.org/devotional/flb/06_25/
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2.
It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. The sun appears, shining in its strength. Signs and wonders follow in quick succession. The wicked look with terror and amazement upon the scene, while the righteous behold with solemn joy the tokens of their deliverance. Everything in nature seems turned out of its course. The streams cease to flow. Dark, heavy clouds come up, and clash against each other. In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying, “It is done.” Revelation 16:17....
That voice shakes the heavens and the earth. There is a mighty earthquake, “such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.” Revelation 16:18.... The whole earth heaves and swells like the waves of the sea. Its surface is breaking up. Its very foundations seem to be giving way....
Graves are opened, and “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth ... awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:2. All who have died in the faith of the third angel's message come forth from the tomb glorified, to hear God's covenant of peace with those who have kept His law.68The Great Controversy, 636, 637.
The voice of God is heard from heaven, declaring the day and hour of Jesus’ coming, and delivering the everlasting covenant to His people. And when the blessing is pronounced on those who have honored God by keeping His Sabbath holy, there is a mighty shout of victory.70The Great Controversy, 637, 640.
1844 – the predicted return of Christ 1844 – Christ didn’t return Instead – enters His heavenly sanctuary to the begin the judgment process
All predicting the return of Jesus Christ As the Lion of Judah cleansing the world of the unrighteous
| Bahai
tfhc.nt.gov.au/ nt-bahai-fact-sheet/
Bahá'ís believe that the Founder of the Bahá'í Faith, Bahá'u'lláh (1817-1892), is the most recent in the line of Messengers of God that stretches back beyond recorded time and that includes Abraham, Moses, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Jesus Christ and Muhammad, and finally Bah.
bahaiteachings.org/new-understanding-perplexing-prophecies-daniel/
The Baha’i teachings say that the advent of the Bab, one of the twin prophets of the Baha’i era along with Baha’u’llah, began the “cleansing of the sanctuary” with a new revelation from God. Could the sanctuary to be cleansed be the heart of humankind?
“In Daniel 8:13 it is said: … And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” … That is to say, how long shall this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation endure? Or, when will the morn of Revelation dawn? … Briefly, the point is that he fixes a period of 2,300 years, for according to the text of the Torah each day is one year. Therefore, from the date of the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem until the day of the birth of Christ there are 456 years, and from the birth of Christ until the day of the advent of the Bab there are 1,844 years, and if 456 years are added to this number it makes 2,300 years. That is to say, the fulfilment of the vision of Daniel took place in A.D. 1844, and this is the year of the advent of the Bab. Examine the text of the Book of Daniel and observe how clearly he fixes the year of His advent! There could indeed be no clearer prophecy for a Manifestation than this.” – Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, pp. 48-49.
“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.” – Daniel 12:11-12.
There are 1,290 lunar years in the Islamic calendar from the date of Muhammad’s declaration of his station as a prophet of God in the year 613, to Baha’u’llah’s declaration of his station as a prophet of God in 1863.
Reverting to solar years, Daniel gives his final numerical prophecy and is then told that his mission on Earth is finished:
“But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.” – Daniel 12:13.
Prophetically, the 1,290 and the 1,335 days/years go together, the first logically following the second. The 1,335 solar years begin with the year 628, the year Muhammad signed a treaty with his enemies in Mecca that signified that recognized the Muslim community in Medina not only as a legitimate force, but also one to be respected and accorded contractual or diplomatic status.
The 1,335 solar years added to 628 equals 1,963 years, or the calendar year 1963, a momentous period in Baha’i history. That was the year when members of the world’s National Spiritual Assemblies cast their ballots to elect the first Universal House of Justice – the global administrative body of the Baha’i Faith. The declaration of Baha’u’llah in 1863
1844 – the predicted return of Christ 1844 – Christ didn’t return Instead – the first Universal House of Justice – the global administrative body of the Baha’i Faith.
All predicting the return of Jesus Christ As the general of the Islamic Mahdi cleansing the world of the unrighteous
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Robert refuses to have any discussion about Islam Robert refuses to address the identity of Allah Robert refuses to have any discussion about current events or end-times prophesy involving Islam Robert claims that many of his SDA therologians have distanced themselves from Ellen White and her teachings But will not address why the SDA was consider a cult of personality until they did move away from her. What is a cult - A person (an individual or their writings) becomes the focal point of the religionRobert ccontiually argues - the words of Ellen White superceed scripture Scripture does not say what eveyone thinks it says - Ellen White has an alternative teachingIs SDA a Cult? : r/TrueChristianReddit · r/TrueChristian Is SDA a Cult? ... …"a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people ... Top answer: I don't know if they're a cult, but their beliefs and teachings are certainly antibiblical ...Is Seventh-Day Adventism (SDA) a Cult?Grace Evangelical Society - faithalone.org › blog › is-seventh-day-adventis... Jun 9, 2023 — Clearly, SDA teaches a false gospel and has many of the hallmarks of a cult. Seventh Day Adventism: cult, heresy, or misguided?The Puritan Board - www.puritanboard.com › threads › seventh-day... Jul 31, 2008 — Cult. Some congregations may try to be Christian, but the fact remains that it historically began as a cult The Gospel Coalition www.thegospelcoalition.org › article › 9-things... Mar 8, 2016 — Although few evangelicals today consider SDA a non-Christian cult, many still caution against embracing the denomination as an acceptable branch ... “I Was In A Cult” - We Spoke To 2 People Who Have Left a ... www.zoella.co.uk › 2021/07/26 › i-was-in-a-cu... Jul 26, 2021 — Generally speaking, a 'cult' is a social group defined by its great devotion and shared commitment to an unorthodox religious, political, ... Grace Community Church www.gracechurch.org › sermons Apr 26, 2015 — Is Seventh-Day Adventism a Cult? by Phil Johnson What of Seventh-Day Adventism? (Part I) Christianity Today - www.christianitytoday.com › march-31 › what-... Among The Cults. For many years SDA has been labeled a cult. Conservative Christians, particularly, have said hard things about the group and its doctrines. Cultish: Is Seventh Day Adventism a Cult? Pt. 1 YouTube · Apologia Studios ... Adventist podcast on whether or not Seventh-Day Adventism is a cult ... Cults" had when trying to pin down certain doctrines that the SDA believed ... 3 Reasons Seventh Day Adventism Is a CultYouTube · Daily Theology It is not uncommon for cults and false religions to reshape words and biblical doctrines through new revelation and mis-use of hebrew or ... Why I Am Not a Seventh-day Adventistsecularhumanism.org › 2014/01 › cont-why-i-a... I was raised in a family of Seventh-day Adventists, members of an apocalyptic cult that has a nightmare scenario laid out for the “last days” in which the cult ... The Seventh-Day Adventists | CultsLamb and Lion Ministries - christinprophecy.org › Articles Martin had earlier labeled the SDA a cult in his book published in 1955 called The Rise of the Cults.2. Yet, shortly before he died, Dr. Martin expressed ... Two Reasons Adventism Is A Cult - Proclamation! Magazine blog.lifeassuranceministries.org › 2020/09/10 Sep 10, 2020 — Two Reasons Adventism Is A Cult · Seventh-day Adventists are anti-Trinitarian. The Fundamental Belief #2 of Adventism claims that Seventh-day ... Is Seventh-day Adventism a cult?www.truthorfables.com › SDA_Cult A religious cult is an organization that has departed from mainstream Christianity to follow doctrines that are not Biblical. They hold their leader's Bible ... Seventh Day Adventism Christian Research Institute - www.equip.org › articles › seventh-day-adventi... Jun 10, 2009 — ... Christian cult. It is our ... Anthony Hoekema, The Four Major Cults (Grand Rapids, MI; Eerdmans, 1963), for the viewpoint that SDA is a cult.Seventh-day Adventism: Cult or Not? - Tim Conway illbehonest.com › seventh-day-adventism-cult-o... Feb 29, 2016 — Seventh-day Adventism: Cult or Not? ... If you really want to find out what any religious denomination is about, then find out what they think ... Seventh-day Adventist Cult Exposedwww.jesus-is-savior.com › sda_cult I went ahead and skipped most of the questions (1-12) because they are doctrinally sound, which is why so many victims get deceived by this false religious cult ... The Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) Devil's Cult Exposedeternalevangelism.com › seventh-day-adventist-... Apr 1, 2018 — Ellen G. White taught, similar to the Catholic cult, that all other churches except the SDA church were teaching lies from the Devil. Only SDA ... The Cult Of Seventh Day Adventismbiblelineministries.org › the-cult-of-seventh-da... (Today there is said to be 1,500,000 Adventists). 4. Ellen G. White: As in many religious cults there is always a predominant figure, and Ellen White is the one ... Things You Need To Know About The Cult Of Seventh-day ... www.jesusisprecious.org › sda › deception One of the most deceptive and hard to discern religious cults for new believers is Seventh-day Adventism (SDA). ... Seventh-day Adventists as “a Christian cult. Seventh-Day Adventism - Orthodox or Cult? - www.chrisapproved.com › bible › advent (In the 1955 edition of The Kingdom of the Cults , Martin originally did classify SDA as cultic.) Martin and Barnhouse concluded that SDA was within the bounds ... Why Seventh-Day Adventism is a New Religious Movement ... undercoveradventist.wordpress.com › why-seve... Why Seventh-Day Adventism is a New Religious Movement (Cult) · The group is almost always outside of dominant religious forms and culture and displays an op- ... Cult of Seventh Day AdventismEuropean American Evangelistic Crusades - www.eaec.org › cults › seventhdayadvent Like so many other cults, the doctrine of the SDA church evolved with time. ... Cult Beliefs. Great emphasis is laid upon the teaching that the Sabbath day is on ... What I Didn't Like About the Seventh-day Adventist Church spectrummagazine.org › post-archives › what-i-... Dead worship– It seems that with some folks in the SDA Church, it is a religious principle that God wants churches to be dead. Whenever some “life” comes into ... WHY SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS ARE A CULTSpirit Life Magazine - www.spiritlifemag.com › why-seventh-day-adv... Apr 2, 2021 — We will be seen as a cult that makes the Bible say what we want it to say.” (“Ellen White's Role in Adventist History,” p3, 5). That reflects ... False Doctrines of Seventh-day Adventismjesusisgodandlordministries.com - jesusisgodandlordministries.com › false-doctrin... Many cults focus on the end times. Many groups have broken off from the Seventh-day Adventists over the years forming subgroups and in effect a cult of a cult ... Denominationalism, Religious Cults and World Religionswww.newtestamentchristians.com › 12-S... ... the baptismal vows of the Seventh Day Adventist. Church. 12. Why would it be proper to identify the Seventh Day Adventist Church as a religious cult?Seventh-Day Adventism - Christian or CultBibleOne.net - bibleone.net › print_tbs41 Dr. Anthony Hoekema in his book, The Four Major Cults, classifies Seventh-day Adventism as a non-Christian cult-system., as do other notable ... Part 1: Is Seventh-Day Adventism a Cult? - Cultish thecultishshow.com - thecultishshow.com › podcast › is-seventh-day-... Dec 6, 2022 — ... Adventist podcast on whether or not Seventh-Day Adventism is a cult. ... Cults" had when trying to pin down certain doctrines that the SDA ... Cults and Sects: Seventh-Day Adventists - Beacon Lights www.beaconlights.org › sermons › cults-and-se... Cults and Sects: Seventh-Day Adventists · International Cultic Studies Associationwww.icsahome.com › elibrary › topics › articles by TFYSK Them · Cited by 3 — ... cult experts and author of Kingdom of the Cults (1965), considered the SDA organization a cult. In later editions of his book, after much dialogue with certain ... Adventism and its Impact on the CultsReachout Trust - reachouttrust.org › adventism-cults Feb 22, 2018 — Some evangelicals state that the Seventh Day Adventists are a cult whilst others that it contains an element of cult-like teaching. Most cults ... Is Seventh-Day Adventism Christian or a Cult?Answering Adventism - answeringadventism.com › ... › Basic Essentials In a Christian context, the definition of a cult is a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of Christianity—teaching doctrines that, if ...
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Post by Dave on Dec 31, 2023 0:25:45 GMT -5
Greetings Dave'' Dave" Then she demands no one else can have this giftROB" Are you sure Ellen White video said that, I am sure it didn't because of the Joel vision prophecy for the last days " young humans will get this gift too" lots of them SHalom ROB" Are you sure Ellen White video said that, I am sure it didn't because of the Joel vision prophecy for the last days " young humans will get this gift too" lots of themYep – the video you provided makes a big deal about Joel’s words to validate Ellen White’s experiences Then she demands no one else can have this gift – except her Your provided video 9:30 - anyone claiming contact with the spirit world – is not of God Any spirit medium is not of God11:00- she claim contact with the spirit world and she is a prophet Now she claims to be a spirit mediumEllen White's VisionsClaiming 2000 visions – more than any recorded prophet in history Vision that would cause her to pass out – fall to the floor Even people around here are moved to tears by the spirit Robert claims this type of stuff is satanic – he even prays against it
17:45 – she described her experience as an out-of-body experience Viewed herself as removed from this world and into the presence of heavenly beings Moved to the spirit world Robert says this is impossible new age satanic garbage he says www.elmalarsen.net/articles/the-sda-church-the-baptism-of-the-holy-spirit1. In general, the SDA church does not teach the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" as a special event of being fully immersed in the Holy Spirit. It does, however, believe in the Holy Spirit, and even believes in "receiving the Holy Spirit" after water baptism, but this is not an immersion in the Holy Spirit (and as such, it is not a baptism of the Holy Spirit). Correct – Robert says nothing special about it – anyone who joins the SDA church ans claims to have faith is Baptized by the Holy Spirit every day
CONSEQUENCE of this incorrect doctrine: Many in the SDA church are either not aware of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and hence have little knowledge of it, or they have confused water baptism to be the event in which they also receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Either way, they are missing out on the real baptism of the Holy Spirit and are also missing out the empowerment of the Holy Spirit to move in His gifting effectively. 2. The SDA church believes that if there is going to be another event like Pentecost (in which the baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs), it is reserved for some time in the future, known as the time of the "latter rain". What occurred on the Day of Pentecost (in Acts 2) was considered to be the "former rain". CONSEQUENCE of this incorrect doctrine: Many in the SDA church believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit (if they do know anything about it at all) is not for now, and are forever looking for signs of the "latter rain" and praying for it. They are thus missing out on the baptism of the Holy Spirit right now. 3. Ellen White had referenced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in one of her writings, ‘For the daily baptism of the Spirit every worker should offer … petition to God.’ (AA 50-1). Correct – Robert says nothing special about it – anyone who joins the SDA church ans claims to have faith is Baptized by the Holy Spirit every dayCONSEQUENCE of this incorrect doctrine: Some SDAs have used this reference not only to prove that Ellen White endorsed the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (and hence was not afraid of it), but that she knew what it is. 4. The SDA church: Discourages speaking in tongues as it is easily counterfeited by the devil. Discourages speaking in tongues without interpretations. Discourages speaking in tongues as it believes to show a chaotic church rather than an ordered church. CONSEQUENCE to this incorrect doctrine: Due to misconceptions on tongues, many SDAs are afraid of this phenomenon and keep well away from it, thereby missing out on the most powerful gift. How is Jesus expected to baptize anyone in the Holy Spirit if they detest or are afraid of the manifestations of the Holy Spirit (of which speaking in tongues is one)? Correct – Robert absolutely denies the spirit and the Baptizing of the Holy Spirit Instead he teaches – the real gift only happened the Ellen White – all other beliefs in the Holy Spirit are wrong. The promise is not for everyone or any one – only Ellen WhiteWhat is different from Ellen White and Angelica Zambrano?Stopped breathing / dead for 23 hrs as she had an pout of body journey into heaven and hell If you bothered to know your history – Ellen Whites visions sound very much like Edgar Casey – the sleeping prophet – falls into a trance then speaks while unconscious Really the only thing unique about Ellen White’s visions is (1) they are only for her and no one else (2) and she teaches against Judeo-Christianity claiming satan a god11 Minutes in Heaven: Woman Dies and Comes Back to Tell ... YouTube · The 700 Club People Who Died, Saw Heaven, & Came Back to Life! | Dr ... YouTube · Destiny Image HEAVEN: Stories of People Who Died & Came Back!YouTube · Sid Roth's It's Supernatural! Reader's Digestwww.rd.com › True Stories › Survival Stories Mar 27, 2019 — It's the question we've all asked: What happens after death? These people got a look at the afterlife, and reveal what they saw. People Who Died and Went to Heaven but Lived to Tell About Itchurchcreativepros.com - churchcreativepros.com › people-died-went-he... Some have experienced Heaven · 1. Maria Hansen · 2. Colton Burpo · 3. Katie Wise · 4. Bill Wiese · 5. David Bennett · 6. Don Piper · 7. Anthony Flew · 8. Julius ... 'The Miracle Man' Who Went to Heaven and Came BackGuideposts - guideposts.org › ... › Life After Death ... Heaven, Life After Death, Miracles, Stories of Faith, Stories of Hope ... books from Guideposts with amazing stories of those who have visited heaven and returned. What I Learned About Heaven After Almost DyingMindBodyGreen - www.mindbodygreen.com › articles › what-i-le... May 13, 2020 — I have experienced the deep pain of losing people I dearly love, and it is a great comfort to me to know that when I next return to what I ... This atheist says he died and returned - now, he believes ... Jerusalem Post - www.jpost.com › OMG Sep 7, 2023 — These mysteries have perplexed brilliant minds worldwide, with divergent beliefs about the afterlife. While some strongly believe in heaven and ... Heavenly Encounters: True Stories of... by GuidepostsAmazon - www.amazon.com › Heavenly-Encounters-Tra... ... Stories of Transformation from Near-Death Experiences (Witnessing Heaven). 3.4 ... people who have traveled to heaven and returned to share their amazing stories! Rating: 3.4 · 16 reviews · $23.70 · 30-day returns Have People Really Died, Gone to Heaven and Come ... Billy Graham Evangelistic Association billygraham.org › Answers Jul 8, 2019 — Are the stories true of people dying, going to Heaven, and then coming back to tell about their experiences?” Can a person go to heaven or hell and return? Biblword.net - www.biblword.net › Christian basics › Salvation Dec 7, 2020 — There are many stories of people who claimed to have died and visited heaven and/or hell before coming back to life. What to think of them? These 11 People Died And Then Came Back To Life, Here ... IndiaTimes - www.indiatimes.com › lifestyle › these-11-peop... Sep 2, 2019 — Popular literature and visual depictions at religious shrines around the world have often spoken of hell and heaven. ... Several stories after ... People who came back from the death and saw HeavenMarianland - www.marianland.com › heaven › backfromdeath ... people who have crossed the threshold of death and returned to tell their stories. “Near-death experiences (NDEs) are spiritual events of staggering ... Really the only thing unique about Ellen White’s visions is (1) they are only for her and no one else (2) and she teaches against Judeo-Christianity claiming satan a god
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Post by rob on Dec 31, 2023 15:28:04 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
Happy 2024, January 1 2024 it's 5:40 am in Queensland time Australia here, lots of rain, lightening and stormy weather on the road, coming back from visiting my kids. Sadly I have lots of grass to mow. Boy does it grow. Greetings to your family for a new season.
What is video is saying is NOT to allow a spirit medium to be your prophet. I do not see this as saying nobody else is allowed to be a prophet inspired from GOD. You are reading the 9:30 sentence with your bias. Joel encourages many humans to be spirit mediums from the Lord. We are not to entertain spirit mediums from fallen angels.
Question: How does one tell if the correct medium is inspiring you?
Do other assemblies teach this theme?
As for comparing Ellen White and doubting her as a prophet, the author says in the end, there are plenty of ways to hang your hooks of doubt if you want to. So obviously you choose not to accept her as a prophet, that is your choice. I will not comment any more about your choice.
As for your notion of the "baptism of the HOLY SPIIRT ONLY" I consider this a false understanding of the torah. And for this idea, I am happy to defend the torah on this theme. Show me the verses that speak of being baptized only into the Name of the HS?
Mt 21:25 The baptism of John,
The torah speaks of this kind of baptism...
Ac 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
Here this baptism is called this
Ac 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
My understanding we are baptized in the name of Jesus.
Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:
Like this says
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
The HS is never called a YHWH.
------------------ Mr 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
John speaks of his process as this
Ac 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Here is a interesting baptism
Ac 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:
Ac 2:1 disciples in one accord
Ac 2:4 they spoke other tongues
Notice this process did not require them to enter the water as a baptism a second time.
Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Notice the process
Ac 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Perhaps you are referring to this verse?
Ac 11:24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith:
Notice the human comes with HS and faith
Ac 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
The SDA church practices the laying on of hands to be gifted more with powers of the HS. So I do not understand your problem?
So I am not sure what it is you are discussing.
You need to present your discussion first.
What does baptism into the HS mean to you, and show me how you read the verses with this idea. Than I will discuss your discussion.
If this is going to be a science debate, we both must reach a common conclusion after only three posts of the discussion of the discussions.
My problem with you is you never discuss, nor know how to discuss and you do not reach any common conclusion between us. You are afraid to reach a conviction. If your discussion proves true, I must reach your conviction. Happy to do that.
Now you go first and present your discussion as the first speaker.
This is 2024, and I will play by the rules of the debate using rules of debate, science and discussion. Stick to this one topic at have.
Hypothesis" What is the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
You are the first speaker, write your discussion, add your verses and make sure the discussion is very detailed and precise so your arguments are very water tight.
I will reply with my first discussion.
Than you are allowed to rebuttal my discussion of your discussion as a second speaker.
Than I am allowed to discuss your discussion, but not introduce new ideas, we discuss only what is presented.
Than you are allowed to discuss a third and final time, make your summary precise and detail.
I am allowed to make my summary.
After this we must both reach a conviction. Only one side is allowed to reign as correct. Are you willing to play by these rules of discussion? no tangents, not sidetrack new topics, discuss the discussions are hand?
This is a new idea for Dave, but not for me, I was a debater in schools for 2 years and we travelled from school to school debating in competitions like this. So we learned the science of debating. Since you are the first speaker with your idea, ALL points you raise must be raised NOW, not later. I assume you are thought of your idea for hundreds of hours and have carefully written a discussion of logic years ago over and over? Most people never investigate their own logical thinking processes?
This is a new topic for me too, so I am not sure of my own thinking processes either.
My problem with you Dave, you do not discuss the discussions, when we discuss. Brevity is NOT discussion. You do not even understand this process, and often dodge doing this. Copy and Paste emotions is NOT discussion. Now we are only making 6 or 7 posts for this thread....so write your discussion carefully and with precision.
There are new mercies every morning the Good Book says, so I am happy to debate this hypothesis you wish to raise
Hypothesis" What is the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
You are the first speaker, write your discussion, add your verses and make sure the discussion is very detailed and precise so your arguments are very water tight.
You have had me present the topic somewhat already as an intro
1) there is baptism of water 2) and laying of hands, to receive more gifts from the HS
both of these themes are in the NT torah.
I look forward to your discussion as the first speaker. I have had both of these processes applied to me within the SDA church. I look at the gifts of the HS and the fruits of the HS.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, .... thirdly teachers,
My gift from the powers of the HS is that of teaching.... 28 years formally
Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
This list is big and I lack many of the these fruits. The strangest one for me is "joy". Notice these are fruits of the "medium", so the HS carries the gifts of the Most High to humans.
In your discussion you need to present how you see the HS as a provider of fruits and gifts, I do not see this at ALL. Mediums only carry things from one source to the receiver. Perhaps you will raise issues based on assumptions we both already agree on.
In other themes, you keep raising the idea that a medium can function as a provider. I would disagree with this idea. The HS does not create, nor does the HS provide you with gifts or fruits. The spirit medium only enables the receiver to receive the fruits and powers of the Father via the SON, who died so sinners can approach the Father of Grace.
You know a little of my end of the debate, now present your discussion as the first speaker.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 31, 2023 18:02:21 GMT -5
What is video is saying is NOT to allow a spirit medium to be your prophet. Yet – you claim a spirit medium as your prophetI do not see this as saying nobody else is allowed So I am not sure what it is you are discussing. You cannot argue against the spirit and the spiritual hard enough Your own words precede youYou need to present your discussion first. Have presented you with video testimonies and my own witness – you mock it all Claimimng it is all impossible because there is no such thing as spiritwww.elmalarsen.net/articles/the-sda-church-the-baptism-of-the-holy-spirit1. In general, the SDA church does not teach the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" as a special event of being fully immersed in the Holy Spirit. Correct – Robert says nothing special about it – anyone who joins the SDA church ans claims to have faith is Baptized by the Holy Spirit every dayWhere are you answers to my questions?1- What is different from Ellen White and Angelica Zambrano? Stopped breathing / dead for 23 hrs as she had an out of body journey into heaven and hell 2- How are her 2000 visions different than Edgar Casey? Casey – the sleeping prophet – falls into a trance then speaks while unconscious 3- Why is the only thing unique about Ellen White’s visions is (1) they are only for her and no one else (2) and she teaches against Judeo-Christianity claiming satan a god
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Post by rob on Jan 1, 2024 1:42:02 GMT -5
D" Yet – you claim a spirit medium as your prophet R" Yes I claim she was a medium for carrying God's messages to humans, yes A spirit medium carries things, yes.
D" You cannot argue against the spirit and the spiritual hard enough Your own words precede you" R" What? no such thing as a "medium" existing as "matter". no such thing as "medium" existing as ethereal either, whatever you claim outside of matter.
A medium exists as a function between matter, an agent that carries things from one media to another media.
And the HS does that, it carries messages and itr carries power, that is what a medium does, even secular mediums and seance mediums.
The HS medium is administrated by the Shadday, the Scriptures say so clearly in Job 33:3 And the Shadday is a infinite divine being that controls the function of the medium as the HS. If your view is true, publish the truth using Scripture.
I can, you haven't done this yet, we both can't be true.
D" Have presented you with video testimonies and my own witness – you mock it all R" I don't mock you or your witness. I wish you just discussed your discussions more.
And as for your videos, I am still waiting for a video that uses "Archons" alot and "Satanas" even once.
Is that a hard request? Not really, since it is your view.
D" Correct – Robert says nothing special about it – anyone who joins the SDA church ans claims to have faith is Baptized by the Holy Spirit every day R" what does "Baptized by the Holy Spirit every day" mean to you? Again you do not discuss your own words, so how in the heavens am I supposed to know?
Don't you think through your own thinking processes?
D" 1- What is different from Ellen White and Angelica Zambrano? Stopped breathing / dead for 23 hrs as she had an out of body journey into heaven and hell R" dead for 23 hrs is different to talking while not breathing for 4 hours? Also talking while not making moisture on a glass held to her lips.
Do you understand the facts of your comparison Dave?
Discuss your presentation of facts.
D" 2- How are her 2000 visions different than Edgar Casey? Casey – the sleeping prophet – falls into a trance then speaks while unconscious R" Have you studied this? Of asking me to study it for you?
Were Edgar Casey's eyes open as he spoke without blinking? God would not allow a false prophet to function as a true prophet, surely you have studied Edgar Casey's claims carefully?
D" she teaches against Judeo-Christianity claiming satan a god R" And Jews claim Satan is a good angel functioning as a prosecutor, but I also read this same angel is allowed to kill the murder the human for his sins? Come on Dave, place all the Jews quotes on a web page and let's see how consistent the Jews are against the torah.
If the JOB account mentions only a angel talking to GOD, how does the humans know the hedge was down and than killed Job's children? ANd who in the story does lightning fall from heaven killing more of Job's assets?
Can't be you angel? Can't be your demons, they are not even mentioned in the story of Job?
Your theories do not make sense.
I read instead an Opposer talked to God about God's right to save humans. That makes sense. The Hebrew word "oppose" tells you some being is opposing human salvation and challenging GOD with certain challenges.
Again the Hebrew word itself tells you.
If the angel was a talking, why doesn't the Hebrew say a messenger spoke to God, saying.... It doesn't.
It uses the term opposer instead.
Now discuss my discussion here, and write you sentences Dave. Your readers would love to read your views, which make no sense.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 1, 2024 2:45:09 GMT -5
Rob - What is video is saying is NOT to allow a spirit medium to be your prophet. D" Yet – you claim a spirit medium as your prophet R" Yes I claim she was a medium for carrying God's messages to humans, yes A spirit medium carries things, yes.
You deny the spirit – all you have is a medium created by God So is a forbidden spirit medium your prophet or not OR is this just more Ellen white contradictrions
D" You cannot argue against the spirit and the spiritual hard enough Your own words precede you" R" What? no such thing as a "medium" existing as "matter Sorry Robert – you are clearly on the record NO SUCH THING AS SPIRIT – and – any Christian claiming a spiritual experience is of satan
D" Have presented you with video testimonies and my own witness – you mock it all R" I don't mock you or your witness. I wish you just discussed your discussions more. NO SUCH THING AS SPIRIT – and – any Christian claiming a spiritual experience is of satan
D" Correct – Robert says nothing special about it – anyone who joins the SDA church ans claims to have faith is Baptized by the Holy Spirit every day R" what does "Baptized by the Holy Spirit every day" mean to you? Again you do not discuss your own words, so how in the heavens am I supposed to know?
We have had this discussion for years – if you do not understand the argument by now tyopu are dumber than a box of rocks You claim there is no experience – every SDA who says I have faith is filled with your HS Easy – happens to every SDA member NO SUCH THING AS SPIRIT – and – any Christian claiming a spiritual experience is of satan
D" 1- What is different from Ellen White and Angelica Zambrano? Stopped breathing / dead for 23 hrs as she had an out of body journey into heaven and hell R" dead for 23 hrs is different to talking while not breathing for 4 hours? Also talking while not making moisture on a glass held to her lips. Do you understand the facts of your comparison Dave? Angelica Zambrano did not wake up preaching satan is a god – don’t you think this detail is important?
D" 2- How are her 2000 visions different than Edgar Casey? Casey – the sleeping prophet – falls into a trance then speaks while unconscious R" Have you studied this? Edgar Casey never taught that satan was a god – don’t you think this detail is important? Instead he said – as you saw the Son of Man ascend so shall you see Him return
D" she teaches against Judeo-Christianity claiming satan a god R" And Jews claim Satan is a good angel functioning as a prosecutor, but I also read this same angel is allowed to kill the murder the human for his sins? Not the same entity OT Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lords working for the Lord NT Chaldean satanas is of the beast - a serpent – a demon – a devil Your Robert method cannot tell the difference - and you bend the OT to fit your satan tradition
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Post by rob on Jan 1, 2024 5:47:49 GMT -5
D" satan was a godR" I went to egwritings.org and searched " satan was a god" no results also did " satan is a god" no results. Clearly you are making a claim Ellen White never made. D" Not the same entity OT Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lords working for the Lord NT Chaldean satanas is of the beast - a serpent – a demon – a devil Your Robert method cannot tell the difference - and you bend the OT to fit your satan traditionROB" Now you are claiming I can't read Jewish material properly? Post me that Jews have two beings in their view, an angel as a prosecutor and these shedim demons who are not Satan, but some Satanas creature. Good luck with that task. www.myjewishlearning.com/article/satan-the-adversary/Here is a typical sentence God permits Satan to take away Job’s wealth, kill his family and afflict him physically, none of which induces Job to rebel against God.Now who is the subject of the sentence? Satan is. What does the subject do ? take away Job’s wealth, kill his family and afflict him physically, SO here a angel doing the bad job of prosecuting sins, is also killing Job's family? Is this a prosecutor's job? hardly... I rest my case. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 1, 2024 7:37:01 GMT -5
R" I went to egwritings.org and searched "satan was a god" no results also did "satan is a god" no results. Clearly you are making a claim Ellen White never made. WORD GAME You have taught this here for four years – why are you not willing to support your own teachingTwo gods – one of tov and one of ra – locked in an eternal cosmic struggle in heaven – fighting over God’s throne – God’s very right to rule His own creationThe Great Controversy and God's Love for HumanityAdventist.org - www.adventist.org › the-great-controversy All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. Not as Dave claims " in heaven opposing God right to rule the universe" No creature can do they, so why even say this idea? REPEAT - You have taught this here for four years – why are you not willing to support your own teaching?NOW YOU SAY - the entire concept = No creature can do this, so why even say this idea?REPEAT - why do you not support your own teaching? PLEASE - explain to us again - how honest and serious you areDO YOU SUPPORT ELLEN WHITE OR NOT? - and why should we believe any answer you offer?----------------------------------------------------- D"Not the same entity OT Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lords working for the Lord NT Chaldean satanas is of the beast - a serpent – a demon – a devil Your Robert method cannot tell the difference - and you bend the OT to fit your satan tradition ROB" Now you are claiming I can't read Jewish material properly?YES – I AM SAYING THATYou play word games – and your Robert Method is error – fails you every time There is an English word gymnasium – there is a German word gymnasium – you force them to mean the same. You disregard word origin - context - and syntax - you just play word gamesYou do not understand Jewish theology – you continue to force all OT Jews to accept 4th century Catholic theology - all you have to do is rewrite history and you would be right - all you have to do is deny everything from history and you'll be right Post me that Jews have two beings in their view, an angel as a prosecutor and these shedim demons who are not Satan, but some Satanas creature. Good luck with that task. EASY - DONEwww.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satanHebrew satan cannot be considered an opposer of God Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13523-shedimOT devils were shedim / other gods / same as Arabian Jinn / NT archon They were never angels – they are created beast When are you going to address Ellen White's use of Islamic Advent math?
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Post by rob on Jan 1, 2024 16:31:53 GMT -5
Greetings Dave I cannot find a single passage where Ellen White speaks of Satan as a god. Here are some sentences:- The Acts of the Apostles, p. 212.3 (Ellen Gould White) " Satan knew that his kingdom was being invaded, and he resorted to this means of opposing the work of God, hoping to mingle his sophistry with the truths" … Christian Experience and Teachings of Ellen G. White, p. 229.2 (Ellen Gould White) " Satanic agencies are in every city, busily organizing into parties those opposed to the law of God". Counsels to Parents, Teachers, and Students, p. 33.1 (Ellen Gould White) " Satan was determined to oppose. He desired to live for self. He sought to make himself a center of influence. It was this that had incited rebellion in heaven" ================================== Now regarding your claims that these links show different creatures beings, you are wrong to claim this idea. www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satan Both question and answer, as well as the dialogue which follows, characterize Satan as that member of the divine council who watches over human activity, but with the evil purpose of searching out men's sins and appearing as their accuser. He is, therefore, the celestial prosecutor, who sees only iniquity; for he persists in his evil opinion of Job even after the man of Uz has passed successfully through his first trial by surrendering to the will of God, whereupon Satan demands another test through physical suffering (ib. ii. 3-5).OK Satan is a mere angel helping God with recording sins against the human. Yet it is also evident from the prologue that Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress. He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God.Now the theme changes, why does an angel helping with recording human sins, also require powers to hurt humans? The Chronicler (third century B.C.) regards Satan as an independent agent...... ..... it is possible that the Chronicler, and perhaps even Zechariah, were influenced by Zoroastrianism,OH so some misguided verses got into the inspired Hebrew torah by mistake? So GOD's messages have mistakes in them? The evolution of the theory of Satan keeps pace with the development of Jewish angelology and demonology. In Wisdom ii. 24 he is represented, with reference to Gen. iii., as the author of all evil, who brought death into the world; he is apparently mentioned also in Ecclus. (Sirach) xxi. 27, and the fact that his name does not occur in Daniel is doubtless due merely to chance. Satan was the seducer and the paramour of Eve, and was hurled from heaven together with other angels because of his iniquity (Slavonic Book of Enoch, xxix. 4 et seq.)"Evolution"? change? so the angels helping God with human sinning changes to a new understanding and a new function? Huh? God does not change. Why should a prosecutor function change? The doctrine of the fall of Satan, as well as of the fall of the angels, is found also in Babylonia (Schrader, l.c. p. 464), and is mentioned several times in the New Testament. In strict accordance with his manifold activity he bears many names, being called "Satan" (Matt. iv. 10; Mark i. 30, iv. 15; Luke x. 18 et passim), "devil" (Matt. iv. 1 et passim), "adversary" (I Peter v. 8, ἀντίδικος; I Tim. v. 14, ἀντικείμενος), "enemy" (Matt. xiii. 39), "accuser" (Rev. xii. 10), "old serpent" (ib. xx. 2), "great dragon" (ib. xii. 9), Beelzebub (Matt. x. 25, xii. 24, et passim), and Belial (comp. Samael). The fall of Satan is mentioned in Luke x. 18, John xii. 31, II Cor. vi. 16, and Rev. xii. 9. He is the author of all evil (Luke x. 19 et passim; Acts v. 3; II Cor. xi. 3; Ephes. ii. 2), who beguiled Eve (II Cor. xi. 3; Rev. xii. 9), and who brought death into the world (Heb. ii. 13), being ever the tempter (I Cor. vii. 5; I Thess. iii. 5; I Peter v. 8), even as he tempted Jesus (Matt. iv.). He is the incarnation of all evil, and his thoughts and activities are devoted to the destruction of man; so that Satan, the impulse to evil ("yeẓer ha-ra'"), and the angel of death are one and the same personality. He descends from heaven and leads astray, then ascends and brings accusations against mankind. Receiving the divine commission, he takes away the soul, or, in other words, he slays (B. B. 16a) As the incarnation of evil Satan is the arch-enemy of the Messiah: he is Antichrist. The light which was created before the world was hidden by God beneath His throne; and to the question of Satan in regard to it God answered, "This light is kept for him who shall bring thee to shame." At his request God showed Satan the Messiah; "and when he saw him he trembled, fell upon his face, and cried: 'Verily this is the Messiah who shall hurl me and all the princes of the angels of the peoples down even unto hell'" (Pesiḳ. R. iii. 6 [ed. Friedmann, p. 161b]; further details are given in Bousset, "Der Antichrist").
These quotes all tell readers that the angels helping God with human sinning is no longer the meaning of the word satan at all but some evolution has occurred. Is GOD the author of His messages or not? Apparently not. Evolution is the author the word satan, and the meaning has changed over time to something else. jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13523-shedimThe demons mentioned in the Bible are of two classes, the "se'irim" and the "shedim." The se'irim ("hairy beings"), to which the Israelites sacrificed in the open fields (Lev. xvii. 7; A. V. "devils"; R. V., incorrectly, "he-goats"), are satyr-like demons, described as dancing in the wilderness (Isa. xiii. 21, xxxiv. 14; compare Maimonides, "Moreh," iii. 46; Vergil's "Eclogues," v. 73, "saltantes satyri"), and are identical with the jinn of the Arabian woods and deserts (see Wellhausen, l.c., and Smith, l.c.). To the same class belongs Azazel, the goat-like demon of the wilderness (Lev. xvi. 10 et seq.), probably the chief of the se'irim, and Lilith (Isa. xxxiv. 14). Demons are particularly hurtful at night. It is unsafe to salute a person in the dark, for he might be a demon (Meg. 3a); In the main demons were workers of harm. To them were ascribed the various diseases, particularly such as affect the brain and the inner parts (compare Rhode, "Psyche," 1894, p. 385).
The demons were believed to be under the dominion of a king or chief, either Ashmodai (Targ. to Eccl. i. 13; Pes. 110a; Yer. Shek. 49b; Lev. R. v., where is a corruption of ) or, in the older Haggadah, Samael ("the angel of death"), who kills people by his deadly poison ("sain ha-mawet"), and is called "head of the devils" ("rosh saṭanim"; Deut R. xi.; Pirḳe R. El. xiii.). Occasionally a demon is called "saṭan": "Stand not in the way of an ox when coming from the pasture, for Satan dances between his horns" (Pes. 112b; compare B. Ḳ. 21a). The queen of demons is Lilith, pictured with wings and long flowing hair, and called the "mother of Ahriman" ( B. B. 73b; 'Er. 100b; Nid. 24b). "When Adam, doing penance for his sin, separated from Eve for 130 years, he, by impure desire, caused the earth to be filled with demons, or shedim, lilin, and evil spirits" The speculation regarding the nature and origin of these demons and their leaders led as early as the second pre-Christian century, in those fragments preserved under the name of the Book of Enoch, to the story of the fall of the angels (Enoch, vii.-viii.; lxix.). In fact, "the wicked are accompanied by the angels of Satan; the righteous by the angels of God" (Tosef., Shab. xvii. 2-3; compare Book of Jubilees, x. 6).
Really a female demon has sex with Adam, and the demons are also sometimes called a satan, and now we have Enoch alluding to angels sinning? But no real origin of the demons? Can we really trust this confusing mass of Jewish inventions of traditions? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 2, 2024 4:36:30 GMT -5
I cannot find a single passage where Ellen White speaks of Satan as a god. Here are some sentences:- The Great Controversy and God's Love for HumanityAdventist.org - www.adventist.org › the-great-controversy All humanity is now involved in a great controversy between Christ and Satan regarding the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe. Two gods – one of tov and one of ra – locked in an eternal cosmic struggle in heaven – fighting over God’s throne – God’s very right to rule His own creation You have taught this here for four years – why are you not willing to support your own teaching Not in heaven opposing God right to rule the universe" No creature can do they, so why even say this idea? I am the one that quotes scripture - no one can oppose God You argue that I am wrong Do you stand by Ellen White or not?================================== Now regarding your claims that these links show different creatures beings, you are wrong to claim this idea. www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13219-satanOK Satan is a mere angel helping God with recording sins against the human.Yep – Hebrew satan – heavens prosecutorYet Satan has no power of independent action, but requires the permission of God, which he may not transgress. He can not be regarded, therefore, as an opponent of the Deity; and the doctrine of monotheism is disturbed by his existence no more than by the presence of other beings before the face of God. Correct – Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord working for the Lord The very idea of having a god of evil in heave opposing the Creator is the opposite to monothiesmNow the theme changes, why The evolution of the theory of Satan keeps pace with the development of Jewish angelology and demonology. In Wisdom ii. 24 he is represented, with reference to Gen. iii., as the author of all evil, who brought death into the world; he is apparently mentioned also in Ecclus. (Sirach) xxi. 27, and the fact that his name does not occur in Daniel is doubtless due merely to chance. Satan was the seducer and the paramour of Eve, and was hurled from heaven together with other angels because of his iniquity (Slavonic Book of Enoch, xxix. 4 et seq.) "Evolution"? change? so the angels helping God with human sinning changes to a new understanding and a new function? Huh? God does not change. Why should a prosecutor function change?Please learn to read English - he is represented, with reference to Gen. iiiWe are no longer talking about Hebrew satan – we are discussing the serpent of Gen 3 – the best / we call devils / demons / archon / Jinn / shedim / satanasIn strict accordance with his manifold activity he bears many names, being called "Satan" (Matt. iv. 10; Mark i. 30, iv. 15; Luke x. 18 et passim), "devil" (Matt. iv. 1 et passim), "adversary" (I Peter v. 8, ἀντίδικος; I Tim. v. 14, ἀντικείμενος), "enemy" (Matt. xiii. 39), "accuser" (Rev. xii. 10), "old serpent" (ib. xx. 2), "great dragon" (ib. xii. 9), Beelzebub (Matt. x. 25, xii. 24, et passim), and Belial (comp. Samael). The fall of Satan is mentioned in Luke x. 18, John xii. 31, II Cor. vi. 16, and Rev. xii. 9. He is the author of all evil (Luke x. 19 et passim; Acts v. 3; II Cor. xi. 3; Ephes. ii. 2), who beguiled Eve (II Cor. xi. 3; Rev. xii. 9), and who brought death into the world (Heb. ii. 13), being ever the tempter (I Cor. vii. 5; I Thess. iii. 5; I Peter v. 8), even as he tempted Jesus (Matt. iv.). He is the incarnation of all evil, and his thoughts and activities are devoted to the destruction of man; so that Satan, the impulse to evil ("yeẓer ha-ra'"), and the angel of death are one and the same personality. He descends from heaven and leads astray, then ascends and brings accusations against mankind. Receiving the divine commission, he takes away the soul, or, in other words, he slays (B. B. 16a) As the incarnation of evil Satan is the arch-enemy of the Messiah: he is Antichrist. The light which was created before the world was hidden by God beneath His throne; and to the question of Satan in regard to it God answered, "This light is kept for him who shall bring thee to shame." At his request God showed Satan the Messiah; "and when he saw him he trembled, fell upon his face, and cried: 'Verily this is the Messiah who shall hurl me and all the princes of the angels of the peoples down even unto hell'" (Pesiḳ. R. iii. 6 [ed. Friedmann, p. 161b]; further details are given in Bousset, "Der Antichrist"). These quotes all tell readers that the angels helping God with human sinning is no longer the meaning of the word satan at all but some evolution has occurred.Yep – no longer talking about Hebrew satan Now the discussion is about the archon – Beelzebub – baal – NT satanas Is GOD the author of His messages or not? Apparently not. Evolution is the author the word satan, and the meaning has changed over time to something else.Not only is your comment childish it is just stupidjewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13523-shedim The demons were believed to be under the dominion of a king or chief, either Ashmodai (Targ. to Eccl. i. 13; Pes. 110a; Yer. Shek. 49b; Lev. R. v., where is a corruption of ) or, in the older Haggadah, Samael ("the angel of death"), who kills people by his deadly poison ("sain ha-mawet"), and is called "head of the devils" ("rosh saṭanim"; Deut R. xi.; Pirḳe R. El. xiii.). Ashmodai – 100% King SolomonThe queen of demons is Lilith, ( B. B. 73b; 'Er. 100b; Nid. 24b). Really a female demon has sex with Adam, Oops – you ignorance is showing – we have had this discussion before You selectively forget so you can repeat error for fun and pleasure You are a lazy researcher and evidently you cannot tell the difference between a Legend and a commentaryLILITH, a female demon assigned a central position in Jewish demonology. She appears briefly in the Sumerian Gilgamesh epic and is found in Babylonian demonology. (see the Midrash published in Ha-Goren, 9 (1914), 66–68; Dvir, 1 (1923), 138; and L. Ginzberg, Legends of the Jews, 5 (1925), 166). the Book of Enoch, to the story of the fall of the angels (Enoch, vii.-viii.; lxix.).Yep – all Jewish references to ‘fallen angels’ = Gen 6and the demons are also sometimes called a satan, Yep – demons / devils / satanas oppose – this is correctand now we have Enoch alluding to angels sinning? Yep – all Jewish references to ‘fallen angels’ / ‘sinning angels’ = Gen 6But no real origin of the demons? The only origin within Canon = Rev 12 The only origin outside of Canon come from the NT authors of the Canon The men that walked and talked with Jesus Christ both before and after His Passion – Cross/Resurrection – The chose disciples of Jesus Christ Can we really trust this confusing mass of Jewish inventions of traditions?Jesus was a Jew, His Disciples were Jewish, his original followers were Jewish – original Christianity = Pentecostal Messianic Judaism There is no replacement for Judaism – it is the foundation of Jesus Christ and ChristianityJew weight information - Torah first - Major Prophets - Minor Prophets - then "Wisdom of our fathers" - then LEgends from the Midrash For you to hold the Legend of Lilith up equal with the Torah just proves you do not understand - and don't want to understand - it is not serious or honest
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Post by rob on Jan 2, 2024 6:26:27 GMT -5
I am sorry to offend you Dave, but I find it strange that Jews allow legends, myths and fables into their Jewish literature.
Now regarding your statements
D"Please learn to read English - he is represented, with reference to Gen. iii We are no longer talking about Hebrew satan – we are discussing the serpent of Gen 3 – the best / we call devils / demons / archon / Jinn / shedim / satanas
ROB" you cannot read English.... Let me point out your mistakes
"The evolution of the theory of Satan keeps pace with the development of Jewish angelology and demonology".
evolution and development imply changes to the meaning and function of Satan, a theory in Jewish literature.
"In strict accordance with his manifold activity he bears many names, being called "Satan" (Matt. iv. 10; Mark i. 30, iv. 15; Luke x. 18 et passim), "devil" (Matt. iv. 1 et passim), "adversary" (I Peter v. 8, ἀντίδικος; I Tim. v. 14, ἀντικείμενος), "enemy" (Matt. xiii. 39), "accuser" (Rev. xii. 10), "old serpent" (ib. xx. 2), "great dragon" (ib. xii. 9), Beelzebub (Matt. x. 25, xii. 24, et passim), and Belial (comp. Samael). The fall of Satan is mentioned in Luke x. 18, John xii. 31, II Cor. vi. 16, and Rev. xii. 9. He is the author of all evil (Luke x. 19 et passim; Acts v. 3; II Cor. xi. 3; Ephes. ii. 2), who beguiled Eve (II Cor. xi. 3; Rev. xii. 9), and who brought death into the world (Heb. ii. 13), being ever the tempter (I Cor. vii. 5; I Thess. iii. 5; I Peter v. 8), even as he tempted Jesus (Matt. iv.). He is the incarnation of all evil, and his thoughts and activities are devoted to the destruction of man; so that Satan, the impulse to evil ("yeẓer ha-ra'"), and the angel of death are one and the same personality. He descends from heaven and leads astray, then ascends and brings accusations against mankind. Receiving the divine commission, he takes away the soul, or, in other words, he slays (B. B. 16a) As the incarnation of evil Satan is the arch-enemy of the Messiah: he is Antichrist"
Not anywhere is the word "satanas" written, all readers read is "Satan" not some different creature as Dave alludes to.
In fact the Jewish view says the angel ascends and descends from earth to heaven, doing this functions as outlined above.
Also to back up my point is the word "evolution" meaning that the meaning of Satan as a prosecuting angels changes to some evil agent. And it's confusion on behalf of the Author in this passage.
Can't you read Dave?
He is the incarnation of all evil, and his thoughts and activities are devoted to the destruction of man; so that Satan, the impulse to evil ("yeẓer ha-ra'"), and the angel of death are one and the same personality.
SO is "he" here? Not Satanas, but Satan, still a prosecuting angel, but the incarnation of all evil.
Question : why does the Author write about Satan with changing functions and properties? Answer: I dunno. Are the Jews confused? Or are they adding more functions to this theme?
"In strict accordance with his manifold activity he bears many names, being called "Satan" (Matt. iv. 10; Mark i. 30, iv. 15; Luke x. 18 et passim), "devil" (Matt. iv. 1 et passim), "adversary" (I Peter v. 8, ἀντίδικος; I Tim. v. 14, ἀντικείμενος), "enemy" (Matt. xiii. 39), "accuser" (Rev. xii. 10), "old serpent" (ib. xx. 2), "great dragon" (ib. xii. 9), Beelzebub (Matt. x. 25, xii. 24, et passim), and Belial (comp. Samael).
ROB" What? No mention of prosecuting angel?
Care to explain all this Dave, with actual quotes of the link you supplied me with, explaining why the change in the function and meaning of Satan, from a Jewish perspective? Not a single mention of the word "satanas" or a different creature.
SHalom
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 2, 2024 8:25:38 GMT -5
I am sorry to offend you Dave, but I find it strange that Jews allow legends, myths and fables into their Jewish literature.
Name me a culture that does not carry with it their own legends of the past? The culture of Australia's Aboriginal people is one of the oldest in the world – Aboriginal Australian Culture dates back more than 60,000 years! Regardless if you call it superstition – myth – or legend – all cultures have a pre-story
Your obvious anti-Semitic views are well documented here The Jews never understood their own language – or scripture – or religion – is your claim Your reasoning – your logic – all Jewish teaching is error because it does not agree with Rome ------------------------
Now regarding your statements The topic was Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord working for God
Then there is a change in teaching – a change in satan – a different satan
D"Please learn to read English - he is represented, with reference to Gen. iii We are no longer talking about Hebrew satan – we are discussing the serpent of Gen 3 – the best / we call devils / demons / archon / Jinn / shedim / satanas
ROB" you cannot read English.... Let me point out your mistakes "The evolution of the theory of Satan evolution and development imply changes to the meaning and function of Satan,
AND – your evolution moves from the OT right into the NT ---------------------------
being called "Satan" (Matt. iv. 10; Mark i. 30, iv. 15; Luke x. 18 et passim), " Each reference here = G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin
devil" (Matt. iv. 1 et passim), - G1228 - διάβολος
(Rev. xii. 10), "old serpent" (ib. xx. 2), "great dragon" (ib. xii. 9), Yep – NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin = the BEAST of Revelation
Beelzebub (Matt. x. 25, xii. 24, et passim), and Belial (comp. Samael). Yep – NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin = the BEAST of Revelation – that deceives the whole world – the other gods of the Levant Jesus says - Beelzebub (the god of Gaza) = NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin = the BEAST of Revelation – that deceives the whole world –
The fall of Satan is mentioned in Luke x. 18, John xii. 31, II Cor. vi. 16, and Rev. xii. 9.
Luk 10:18 And Yeshua said to them, “I was watching satan fall like lightning from heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world.
Joh 12:31 = the prince of this world
2Co 6:16 What agreement does God’s Temple have with idols? For we are the temple of the living God—just as God said, “I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. = ?
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world.
He is the author of all evil (Luke x. 19 et passim; Acts v. 3; II Cor. xi. 3; Ephes. ii. 2),
Luk 10:18 = NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin Luk 10:19 = G3789 - ὄφις - a snake / serpent + G2190 - ἐχθρός – hateful enemy
Acts 5:3 = NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin 2Cor 11:3 = G3789 - ὄφις - a snake / serpent
Eph 2:2 - G758 - ἄρχων - archōn
who beguiled Eve (II Cor. xi. 3; Rev. xii. 9), 2Cor 11:3 = G3789 - ὄφις - a snake / Rev 12:9 = G3789 - ὄφις - a snake / serpent + NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin
and who brought death into the world (Heb. ii. 13), Heb 2:13 And again, “I will put My trust in Him.” And again, “Here am I and the children God has given Me.” = ?
being ever the tempter (I Cor. vii. 5; I Thess. iii. 5; I Peter v. 8), 1Cor 7:5 = NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin 1Thess 3:5 = G3985 – πειράζω - to test / tempt 1Pet 5:8 = - G1228 - διάβολος
even as he tempted Jesus (Matt. iv.). Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: - NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin
He is the incarnation of all evil, and his thoughts and activities are devoted to the destruction of man; so that Satan, the impulse to evil ("yeẓer ha-ra'"), and the angel of death are one and the same personality. He descends from heaven and leads astray, then ascends and brings accusations against mankind.
Gnostic – entropy – devour – devoted to destruction – agree Gnostic the archon feed our own (yester ra) – agree Gnostic – angel of death Directly – anyone God sends in that role Indirectly – because they keep man sidetracked – focused upon world – not God
he takes away the soul, or, in other words, he slays (B. B. 16a) Yep– because they keep man sidetracked – focused upon world – not God
As the incarnation of evil Satan is the arch-enemy of the Messiah: he is Antichrist" Yep – because they keep man sidetracked – focused upon world – not God
Not anywhere is the word "satanas" written, all readers read is "Satan" not some different creature as Dave alludes to. Sorry Robert – NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldean origin –is completely different than - G4566 - Σατᾶν - Of Hebrew origin [H7854]
In fact the Jewish view says the angel ascends and descends from earth to heaven, doing this functions as outlined above. Yep – the angels and archon can appear or disappear - agree
Also to back up my point is the word "evolution" meaning that the meaning of Satan as a prosecuting angels changes to some evil agent. And it's confusion on behalf of the Author in this passage. Correct – OT G4566 - Σατᾶν - Of Hebrew origin [H7854] Changes to NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldean origin
Can't you read Dave? – agree -
Question : why does the Author write about Satan with changing functions and properties? Answer: I dunno. Are the Jews confused? Or are they adding more functions to this theme? Because the theology moves from the OT to the NT The OT was a witness to the world – nation to nation – the devils were other gods and demons The OT also spoke of the heavenly prosecutor
The NT is about you personally and your / our real struggle Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satanas, who deceives the whole world.
The NT is about you personally and your / our real struggle Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, (archon) --------------------------------------
"In strict accordance with his manifold activity he bears many names, being called "Satan" (Matt. iv. 10; Mark i. 30, iv. 15; Luke x. 18 et passim), "devil" (Matt. iv. 1 et passim), "adversary" (I Peter v. 8, ἀντίδικος; I Tim. v. 14, ἀντικείμενος), "enemy" (Matt. xiii. 39), "accuser" (Rev. xii. 10), "old serpent" (ib. xx. 2), "great dragon" (ib. xii. 9), Beelzebub (Matt. x. 25, xii. 24, et passim), and Belial (comp. Samael).
ROB" What? No mention of prosecuting angel? Nope – all NT - all about NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldean origin
Care to explain all this Dave Done
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Post by rob on Jan 3, 2024 21:32:04 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Just go tback for a lawn mowing trip to our other house. Twelve hours of tavelling. I also note with Elaine Pangels , I watched a 28 minute of her but the forum failed to post my findings. Third time that has happened? Bother
D" Name me a culture that does not carry with it their own legends of the past? R" SDA culture do not have legends or made up things. Our Uncle Arthur bed time stories I remember as a kid were all based on true missionary events. Hardly anything I know is made up.
D"Your obvious anti-Semitic views are well documented here R" I like Jews Dave, nothing wrong with disagreeing with them at times. As a Christian, Jesus was a Jew, and according to Rabbi Cahn I am Hebrew too, so I would hardly say anything against my own people. How about we let Jewish Bible tell us what is bad about some Jewish doings shall we?
Mr 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
D" The topic was Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord working for God Then there is a change in teaching – a change in satan – a different satan D"Please learn to read English
ROB" What? Are you saying words have intended Dave meanings, even though the spelling of the word does not change?
You are playing word games and even rewriting the words to suit yourself.
D" being called "Satan" (Matt. iv. 10; Mark i. 30, iv. 15; Luke x. 18 et passim), " Each reference here = G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin
devil" (Matt. iv. 1 et passim), - G1228 - διάβολος
(Rev. xii. 10), "old serpent" (ib. xx. 2), "great dragon" (ib. xii. 9), Yep – NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin = the BEAST of Revelation
Beelzebub (Matt. x. 25, xii. 24, et passim), and Belial (comp. Samael). Yep – NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin = the BEAST of Revelation – that deceives the whole world – the other gods of the Levant Jesus says - Beelzebub (the god of Gaza) = NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin = the BEAST of Revelation – that deceives the whole world R" If the author wanted reader to know this in a sentence about a different creature, why didn't they use a different word meaning, like Satanas, or NT-Satan ?
But the Author doesn't, he uses the word Satan. =================
This piece of Jewish literature is interesting
"He is the incarnation of all evil, and his thoughts and activities are devoted to the destruction of man; so that Satan, the impulse to evil ("yeẓer ha-ra'"), and the angel of death are one and the same personality. He descends from heaven and leads astray, then ascends and brings accusations against mankind."
ROB" Notice the Satan descends from heaven, and leads astray and then ascends to heaven, to bring accusations against mankind" ANd Dave's reaction to the so called prosecuting angel is
D" Gnostic – entropy – devour – devoted to destruction – agree Gnostic the archon feed our own (yester ra) – agree Gnostic – angel of death ROB" I point out Dave, from the passage, the words "Satan" and "angel of death" are the same personality.
No mention of archon, no mention of Gnostic.
I also point that Daves theory does no have archons ascending to the heavens. So something is wrong here Dave, you are playing and pushing a religion that does not fit into this passage written by Jews.
ROBPP " Not anywhere is the word "satanas" written, all readers read is "Satan" not some different creature as Dave alludes to.' D" Sorry Robert – NT G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldean origin –is completely different than - G4566 - Σατᾶν - Of Hebrew origin [H7854] ROB" You are kidding me Dave, making and rewriting the Jewish statement. The entire world reading the NT do not play word games with Greek Satanas, only Dave does, the entire word sees Greek word Satanas when translated into English as the word Satan, the same word as the hebrew word Satan. But Daves does not get this.
RObPP" In fact the Jewish view says the angel ascends and descends from earth to heaven, doing this functions as outlined above.
ANd DAVE REPLIES with"
D" Yep – the angels and archon can appear or disappear - agree
R" The authors do not mean archons when they speak of angels? That is a terrible assumption.
RObPP"Question : why does the Author write about Satan with changing functions and properties? D" Because the theology moves from the OT to the NT The OT was a witness to the world – nation to nation – the devils were other gods and demons The OT also spoke of the heavenly prosecutor R" What? Jews do not have the NT in their theology so why does this Jewish so called website include NT writings? I suspect this is not a Jewish website at all, but some intentional website designed to confuse readers.
D" Care to explain all this Dave Done R" What? I wish you could go to Jewish midrash commentary or some place where the entire torah is commented on by dozens of Jews or a few of the most respected Jews, all in one place.
I am so lucky to have Ellen White and all her 700,000 pages of commentaries are all searchable within one website place. Are Jews afraid to be a world wide witness to the truth, and what is truth for a Jew anyway, if the Messiah has not yet come to the Jew, or did He? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 4, 2024 0:34:15 GMT -5
D" Name me a culture that does not carry with it their own legends of the past? R" SDA culture do not have legends Your ignorance is showingCulture the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group. SDA is not a culture it is a religion Your Australian culture is filled with as many legends as AfricaAustralian Culture - Religion Cultural Atlas - culturalatlas.sbs.com.au › australian-culture › a... Meanwhile, of the population who identified with a religion other than Christianity, Islam (3.2%) and Hinduism (2.7%) were the largest, followed by Buddhism ( ... The Dreaming: Australia's Era Of Gods And Heroes Culture Trip - theculturetrip.com › Pacific › Australia › Articles Oct 21, 2022 — This cultural knowledge is passed on through the generations via song, dance, art, objects and storytelling that all help maintain strong links ... The Concept of God among the Aborigines of Australia Al Islam - www.alislam.org › revelation › part_3_section_2 It is a continent whose culture, social and religious history can ... Gods is the product of influences from the Christian missionaries on Australian religion. The Gospel and Australian Culture (Part 2) Digital Commons @ Andrews University digitalcommons.andrews.edu › viewcontent - PDF Understanding Faith and CultureNational Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Catholic Council www.natsicc.org.au › understanding-faith-and-... Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Culture has been in place for over 60,000 years in Australia and is the oldest surviving culture in the world. Your ignorance is showing Or you like being a smart ass – misusing words to make a point Either – is a lack is seriousness or honesty --------------------------------------- D"Your obvious anti-Semitic views are well documented here R" I like Jews Dave, nothing wrong with disagreeing with them at times. As a Christian, Jesus was a Jew, and according to Rabbi Cahn I am Hebrew too, so I would hardly say anything against my own people. I do not believe you You are on the record here many times – demanding the Jews do not know their own language, religion, or culture You are on the record here many times – not one Jewish presentation is received or understood by you – you just want to argue words – and miss the entire message The Jews teach Monotheism in a duality The Jews teach spirit – Life lives The Jews embrace the spiritual and those who have spiritual contact The Jews do not call King Solomon a liar The Jews believe in proportional punishment The Jews do not reject Enoch as a part of their history The Jew see Gen 6 as fallen angels that are locked away The Jews teach the Rephiem – and understand the genetic implications of committing a genocide in the name of the Lord The Jews teach reincarnation – because God is fair You reject each basic Jewish teaching – zero agreement between you and Judaism You have a completely different religion founded on your prophet----------------------- D" OT Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord working for God Then there is a change in teaching – a change in satan – a different satan NT satanas = a demon, a serpent, a devl of the BEAST ROB" What? Are you saying words have intended Dave meanings, even though the spelling of the word does not change?OT satan / Hebrew satan H7854 – שָׂטָן - śâṭân – transliterated into Greek as G4566 - Σατᾶν – Satan - Of Hebrew origin [H7854]; NT satanas G4567 - Σατανᾶς - Of Chaldee origin – transliterated into Greek from Arabic: شَيْطَان, romanized: šayṭān, Sorry Robert – two completely different words – from two completely different languages-------------------------------- D" being called "Satan" (Matt. iv. 10; Mark i. 30, iv. 15; Luke x. 18 et passim), " R" If the author wanted reader to know this in a sentence about a different creature, why didn't they use a different word meaning, like Satanas, or NT-Satan ? But the Author doesn't, he uses the word Satan. And every reference to this section is all from the NT – but only you cannot tell he is talking about NT satan================= ROB" I point out Dave, from the passage, the words "Satan" and "angel of death" are the same personality. More or the Robert Method – twist away until you make it say what you want"He is the incarnation of all evil, and his thoughts and activities are devoted to the destruction of man; so that {Satan, the impulse to evil ("yeẓer ha-ra'")}, and the angel of death are one and the same personality. This passage actually says satan does not exist as a person – it is just our own (yester ra) that is the same personality as the angel of death
Yep – if you choose to sin (yester ra) our own choice– you are choosing spiritual suicide (our own messenger of death) – I sure agree You twist it to mean something completely different – the Robert Method It is not serious – or honest – you are openly misrepresenting others to make you point--------------------------------------- I also point that Daves theory does no have archons ascending to the heavens. ANd DAVE REPLIES with" D" Yep – the angels and archon can appear or disappear - agree R" The authors do not mean archons when they speak of angels? That is a terrible assumption. The authors did not mean messengers when they said messengers? – word game
RObPP"Question : why does the Author write about Satan with changing functions and properties? D" Because the theology moves from the OT to the NT The OT was a witness to the world – nation to nation – the devils were other gods and demons The OT also spoke of the heavenly prosecutor R" What? Jews do not have the NT in their theology NT demonology = OT Jewish demonology NT demonology of the OT = the devils were other gods and demons NT demonology = Rev 12 – the BEAST – the serpent we call devils and satanas OT demonology = Rev 12 – the BEAST – the serpent we call devils and satanas NT demonology = the same other gods and demons of the OT It is Ezk 28 self-made satan as the god of evil that does not fit
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