(yester ra)

[Dillon]

Kabbalah: The Secret of the Tree of Knowledge - Rabbi Laibl Wolf, Spiritgrow - Josef Kryss Center

At 3 minutes he sums it up for me perfectly. There is an innate sense, within us, that knows good and bad, right or wrong, what I should do and what I shouldn’t do.

innate
inborn; natural.
Similar: inborn, natural, inherent, instinctive, intuitive, hereditary, inherited
in the blood, built-in, inbuilt, ingrown, deep-rooted, deep-seated, Unlearned, untaught

As soon as God told Adam about two trees, there were two choices: Choose rightly or choose wrongly.

The Tree of Life was the in the center of the garden.
The Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil was way from the center, distant from the center.
I thought this was interesting because Adam could have moved toward the center, source, tov;
or he could move away from the center, source, toward ra.

7:30 If you eat of it you will be like God knowing good and evil.
Tov and ra had to already exist because God already knows all about it.

What is good and evil, what is right or wrong? Why do I know them?
Is it just cultural conditioning or is there an innate absolute standard?
Why did the Nazi think it OK (right) to kill the Jew?

Is nature innately good? NO. Nature is naturally hungry and uncaring.
Nature or geology do not adjust themselves to make life easy for man.
Man has to adjust to the throws and whims of nature.

Why is man different? Why does man care about his surroundings?
Environmentalism, save the whales, don’t pollute, let’s help the victims of disaster, care for the orphans, care for the widows. Why does man care?

13:30 he is teaching from the vantage point of Jewish Spiritualism

15:00 you cannot have change without time. Time is a measure of change.

This is such an interesting statement. Correct me if I am wrong, but is not your teaching:
1st Law of thermodynamics = Gen 1:1 = E=mc2
2nd Law of Thermodynamics = Gen 1:2 = Entropy
3rd Law of thermodynamics = Gen 1:3-4 = things at rest stay at rest until disturbed by an outside force

Time is the measure of the change.

19:05 we have two flows of consciousness, a duality.
One flow is dedicated to self-preservation, survival, these are thing that I pull into me. I want, I need.
Sometimes this is justified and necessary. I must eat.
The other flow is focused on things that go out from me, my service of you, my compassion for you.

Our inner self is always choosing, me, or others. Self-centered or other-centered.

22:15 What is innocence?
Losing our innocence is an act of maturity.

40:45 What does it mean to know?
To know something means to be at one with it.
To know something means that it is you, there is no separation.
When it comes out of you because it is you.
The capacity to distinguish one thing from another.

43:50 Dave’s favorite picture.

[Dave]

15:00 you cannot have change without time. Time is a measure of change.

This is such an interesting statement. Correct me if I am wrong, but is not your teaching:
1st Law of thermodynamics = Gen 1:1 = E=mc2
2nd Law of Thermodynamics = Gen 1:2 = Entropy
3rd Law of thermodynamics = Gen 1:3-4 = things at rest stay at rest until disturbed by an outside force

Time is the measure of the change.

I like it - God divided the light from the darkness. - And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
AND GOD SET THINGS IN MOTION

19:05 we have two flows of consciousness, a duality.
One flow is dedicated to self-preservation, survival, these are thing that I pull into me. I want, I need.
Sometimes this is justified and necessary. I must eat.
The other flow is focused on things that go out from me, my service of you, my compassion for you.

Our inner self is always choosing, me, or others. Self-centered or other-centered.

Interesting way of putting it – me or others / care for me or care for others
How do I care for me – I want, I need, I desire
How do I care for others – witness to them (Jer 1:5)
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.

[Dave]

YES – it is innate – programed within – we are born with the duality (yester ra)+(yester tov)
I like the way you put it – chose rightly or chose wrongly
I say – choose God or choose world

Agree – there is nothing evil about (yester ra) – it is the commandment from God to go forth be fruitful and multiply + subdue and conquer – self-preservation and the survival of the species + build, achieve, and progress – to a point where Daniel will say knowledge will increase and man will travel to and fro

(yester tov) comes from the spirit within – knowledge of what is good, what is rightly, what is Godly

INTENT – motive (who are you doing it for)
If you build a Temple for the Lord so others can come worship = (yester tov)
If you build a temple for the Lord – to be known as a famous architect = (yester ra)

If you seek $10,000 into the collection plate and no one knows where it came from = (yester tov)
If people know you are the guy that put the money in and you seek praise for it = (yester ra)

If you stop to help an old woman across the street, because it was the right thing to do = (yester tov)
If you brag how you had to stop to help an old woman = (yester ra)

Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
Mat 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Intent – motive (who are you doing it for)
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

[Dave]

(yester ra)
Within the Jewish culture – the Jews have and use the phrase - YEẒER HA-RA'
Phonetically pronounced as (yester ha ra) – I, and many other authors use (yester ra)

What does it mean to a Jew or a student of Judaism? –
jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10194-lust - YEẒER HA-RA': (Redirected from LUST.)

What did it mean it mean to a James the brother of Jesus Christ?
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire.

G1939 - ἐπιθυμία - epithumia
From G1937; a longing (especially for what is forbidden): - concupiscence, desire, lust

G1937 - ἐπιθυμέω - epithumeō
From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon, that is, long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).

G2372 – θυμός - thumos
From G2380; passion

G2380 – θύω - thuō
A primary verb; properly to rush (breathe hard, blow, smoke), that is, (by implication) to sacrifice

G2316 – θεός = God – nominative
Θεόu = God – genitive form
Θεω – God dative form

G1909 - ἐπί - epi
A primary preposition properly meaning superimposition, as a relation of distribution [with the genitive case], that is, over, upon, etc.; of rest (with the dative case) at, on, etc.; of direction

Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire/lust

ἐπιθυμία = “to sacrifice – passion – upon/on/at/in the direction of God”
The only way the Greek makes sense = if you understand the Jewish teaching of (yester ra)

Gen 1:22/24 God blessed animals God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply
Gen 1:28 God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, fill the land, and conquer it. Rule over the fish of the sea, the flying creatures of the sky, and over every animal that crawls on the land.”

To all beast God commanded
Be fruitful and multiply – animal lust/desire/passion – there is nothing evil or satanic about it

To man God commanded
Be fruitful and multiply, fill the land, and conquer it. – there is nothing evil or satanic about it

God tells man to build a temple - tov
To quarry stone = ra
For workmen to be hurt along the way = ra
To cut down trees = ra
For workmen to be hurt along the way = ra
Put it all together = a Temple for the Lord = tov – there is nothing evil or satanic about it

God leads Israel up to the door of Jericho – tov
The walls fell – ra
All of Jericho was dedicated ‘banned’ to the Lord - genocide - ra
Save Rahab – tov
All to facilitate God’s Will on earth – tov – there is nothing evil or satanic about it

Over and over – battle after battle – Israel sands for the Lord - tov
battle after battle – ra / murder ra / killing ra
All to facilitate God’s Will on earth – tov – there is nothing evil or satanic about it

God chose Israel to be hated by the whole world - ra
To prove that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was the one true God- tov

Jesus Christ comes to open the Age of the Gentile - tov
God chose the remnant of Israel to be hated by the whole world – ra – including Christians – ra
Only so the remnant of Israel could re-establish 1948 Israel - tov
to be hated by the whole world – ra
to be hated by the whole world (ra) – that results in the tribulation (ra) - that leads to the re end times (ra)
All to facilitate God’s Will on earth – tov – there is nothing evil or satanic about it
To prove that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was the one true God- tov

1- To man God commanded
Be fruitful and multiply, fill the land, and conquer it. – there is nothing evil or satanic about it

2- Then God established the Contest of Gen 3:14-24
God cursed the serpent
God blessed women with pain
God blessed the man with a life of toil and hardship
God cursed the land not to cooperated with man

3- Why ?

The Exegesis on the Soul
For the beginning of salvation is repentance. Therefore (cf. Acts 13:24), "Before Christ`s appearance came John, preaching the baptism of repentance."

And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'"

All to facilitate God’s Will on earth – tov – there is nothing evil or satanic about it
To prove that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob was the one true God- tov

--------------------------------------------

Robert on (yester ra)

Jan 13, 2024 15:22:31 GMT -5 rob said:

R" Why is it you have never looked up all the verses with RA in it? and discovered how foolish your idea is?

Bull Shit – now use your Robert Method and prove I am talking about dung from cattle
You can write post after post talking about cow manure all you want
It is just more Robert Bull Shit

Your Robert Method takes words out of context, you avoid syntax, and you do not even know English grammar
You just uses your Robert Method to deliberately corrupt scripture and damn anything Jewish

Cry baby – prove the term only applies to infants a few days old
Dumb ass – prove I am only referring to your butt
Foot Ball fan – prove this is only about an electric device with blades
A Cold One – prove this is only about an artic number
If I call you GALAH – PROVE I am calling you a small Australian bird
(I think it’s an Australian phrase meaning you’re a dumb ass – and it has nothing to do with your butt)

Your Robert Method takes words out of context, you avoid syntax, and you do not even know English grammar
You just uses your Robert Method to deliberately corrupt scripture and damn anything Jewish

Your Robert Method is BULL SHIT

[rob]

Greetings Dave

Seem like you do not follow "line upon line" after all.

Dave's Method is very different. You choose whatever verses you like and fail to place all the verses into a single plumb bob of stones lining each one with the foundations stone of Jesus.

Ps 34:21 Evil shall slay the wicked:

This verse is one of many about RA, and says in addition of other verses of RA, that RA kills the wicked.

So a creature cannot be made with RA for it would kill you.

If you have a billion mistakes in your DNA code, all examples of mutations called RA, how long would you live?

RA is the fruits of sinning, the curses of GOD, leaving you to live without God's character flowing in your life.

If my Torah Method is BS, discuss specifically where you disagree?


Isa 28:9 ¶ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Here the torah begins with "daath" the word is "Gnosis in Greek", and the other word is "SHAD" the symbol for the false milk the SHAD provide.

So how do the SHAD provide you with false milk, rather than true milk.

Milk is milk isn't it? Arhhh no. Some milk is not complete, lacking vital ingredients.

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Here is the poetry verse, not clearly written very well. If we read it literally as Dave suggests, we can read whatever we like?

How about we allow the torah to interpret it for us?

(1) Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

The first clue to reading torah begins with another symbol, the stone the Jews rejected, based on faith "aman" a word related to the family of words, meaning faith.

"and it shall be a vexation "

"his strange work; "

"Isa 28:22 Now therefore be ye not mockers,"

"Isa 28:23 Give ye ear, and hear my voice;"

Question: Why does the torah method speak in riddles?

"and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust."

Is this the Spirit of GOD, or the SHAD of demons speaking to you?

Isa 29:12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

so nobody can read the Torah Method?

Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

SO traditions of men explain the torah for you? Is that it?

No

Isa 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder

God promises a wonder of wonders.

Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see

Isa 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding,

OK but how? Does the torah method explain how?

Isa 30:2 That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!

What came out of Egypt? the Gnostic writings !!

Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

The torah method is to allow the tutor of the HS speak to you....

Isa 30:23 Then shall he give the rain of thy seed

Strange poetry,

Isa 32:12 They shall lament for the teats, for the pleasant fields, for the fruitful vine.

Again, people wish for SHAD, the easy way out to seek Scripture truths

Isa 32:15 Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.

Question: How do we know we have the right Spirit?

Isa 33:19 ...a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand.

So how is it we cannot still understand?

Isa 33:20... neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.

Cords, a symbol of faith...

Isa 34:4 ...as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

The real truth makes real fruit, ye judge a tree by it's fruits

Isa 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail,

Again a faith claim, seek GOD by faith and you will never be a dry tree.

Isa 35:5 ¶ Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

Isa 36:16 ...and every one of his fig tree, and drink ye every one the waters of his own cistern;

Drink not from using your own human strength

Isa 38:5 Go, and say to Hezekiah,

An example of faith in the OT times....

Isa 40:7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Notice the Torah Method is a pile of chapters all riddled with riddles and poetry Symbols, we grow like grass, like trees....

Isa 40:11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd:

We walk with sheep following a Shepherd by His voice

Isa 40:13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?

Learn to listen to His voice.

Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

A promise we shall rise as the HS with wings...


Isa 41:13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.

In contrast with the wicked with Satan on his right hand.

Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

What prison and prison house is this? that requires a Saviour? And hence the Saviour went to speak unto those in the prison house? to rescue us from our prisons?

Isa 42:16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight.

Here is a clue.

Isa 42:18 ¶ Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Jesus promises to make the torah honorable and make the blind see,

Isa 42:24 ...did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned?

The prison house has prisoners of sin, hence we need a rescue

Isa 43:3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour:

A Saviour has to rescue us from something, and someone...

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me,

Notice the faith word again, we need to be rescued...

Isa 44:10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?

Not only are we rescued for sin, we are also rescued from the SHAD, who provide us with false milk

Isa 44:16 He burneth part thereof in the fire; with part thereof he eateth flesh; he roasteth roast, and is satisfied: yea, he warmeth himself, and saith, Aha, I am warm, I have seen the fire:

The SHAD provide literal fire and cooked food and flames from wood, but the true living fire is nor a burning wood, nor is his food need cooking, for GOD is a living fire, something beyond matter.

Isa 44:20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul,

The SHAD offer matter as a god of salvation, GOD is a living fire and thus the salvation of fire is a fire of living, not based on ashes of matter.

Isa 45:5 ¶ I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:

So where did these other SHAD ELohiym come from, if only the true elohiym is all we need to know?

Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it:

Notice the earth was not created, but man was. So this RA GOD reluctantly created for darkness upon the earth, why? from which the SHAD elohiym powers could exist?

"pray unto a god "el" that cannot save."

Isa 48:20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans,

God identify s the SHAD as babylon and the Chaldeans.

Isa 49:16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands;

Jesus paid the cost for our rescue from the Chaldeans.

Isa 51:9 ¶ Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?

Why the dragon here?

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,

Clearly the dragon slaughtered the lamb of God

Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days,


Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name;

Jesus is our baal, not the false BAAL of the SHAD of the dragon.

Isa 55:1 ¶ Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Isa 55:6 ¶ Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,

Again a faith concept

Isa 57:5 Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree, slaying the children in the valleys under the clifts of the rocks?

Not the SHAD demands of worship

Isa 57:15 ... with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

God seeks the humble and meek, the ones who live by faith

Isa 57:19 I create the fruit of the lips;

When the words are supported they create fruits of the lips... they fill up the person with the character of GOD

Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul?

A clue to seeking the torah correctly, to fast on the Lord

Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

If GOD has saved you, go and save others in His Name

"nor speaking thine own words:" but seeking His words...

Isa 59:5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.

The SHAD is explained here

Isa 59:17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.

And Torah Method explained here

Isa 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people:

Isa 60:16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings:

Isa 60:21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

We have a Lord of trees that grafts us into His bosom

Isa 61:1 ¶ The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;

We have to be meek and humble

and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Set the prisoners free from sin and the SHAD warden

Isa 62:10 ¶ Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people;

The torah is a method of doing, rather than of knowing.
By doing His salvation ye shall know His salvation.


Shalom

[Dave]

The torah is a method of doing, rather than of knowing.
By doing His salvation ye shall know His salvation.

Seriously – I read this
1- What is the point?
2- How does this validate your self-made god of evil
3- How does this validate that your satan god created himself against God’s Will then changed God’s Plan also against God’s Will
4- How does any of this validate your satan god in any way?
5- How does this validate there is a cosmic struggle between two gods over the Creator’s right to rule His own creation
6- How does this explain why Ellen White can have 2000 spiritual experiences – but no one else in the world can – deny – call it satanic – pray against it as a good Christian
7- How does any of this disprove Jewish theology
8- How does any of this disprove Jewish demonology
9- How does anything you posted address Ellen White use of Islamic advent math
10- How is anything you have posted relevant to our discussion

How do any of your comments relate to

Within the Jewish culture – the Jews have and use the phrase - YEẒER HA-RA'
Phonetically pronounced as (yester ha ra) – I, and many other authors use (yester ra)

What does it mean to a Jew or a student of Judaism? –
jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10194-lust - YEẒER HA-RA': (Redirected from LUST.)

[rob]

Greetings Dave

Rob summarizes the torah as

The torah is a method of doing, rather than of knowing.
By doing His salvation ye shall know His salvation.

And Dave replies with ?


D"Seriously – I read this

R" But no discussion between the torah presentations?

D"1- What is the point?

R" Prove your Dave Method of reading torah is wrong

D"2- How does this validate your self-made god of evil

R" It shows the torah speaks of the Tyrus and Ephraim as symbols of love and hate, of an Opposer and a Lover.

But you fail to read the torah, and assume the Tyrus symbol is rarely mentioned?

D"3- How does this validate that your satan god created himself against God’s Will then changed God’s Plan also against God’s Will

R" NO where does your theory exist.

Curse is the opposite meaning of barak, meaning to bless.

Tempt is the opposite meaning of nacah, meaning to test.

Covet is the opposite meaning of chamad meaning to desire.

Now there are some Hebrew words God invented in His Edenic language with single meanings:

"Oppose and Opposer"

Why does this Hebrew word meaning exist? because relationships demand using free will the ability to oppose the relationship.

If darkness does not exist, how can it exist? The sinner has to walk far far away from GOD as light, and than darkness comes as a consquence.

So no creature can recreate himself, as you claim, bogus idea.

" 4- How does any of this validate your satan god in any way?

I showed you how the torah validates the SHAD and explains the origin of the SHAD.

Ho 9:13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.

So this word "Tyrus" is a mere co-incidence on God's part in His message is it Dave?

D" 5- How does this validate there is a cosmic struggle between two gods over the Creator’s right to rule His own creation

Ho 9:17 My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him:

R" Why does GOD cast Ephraim away?

Ho 14:8 ¶ Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols?

What is the idol a symbol of WHOM?

Jer 50:1 ¶ The word that the LORD spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.
2 Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces.

Answer: The Chaldeans of Babylon.

Re 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils,

Re 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

D"10- How is anything you have posted relevant to our discussion

R" Questions 6 to 10:

Doubt is you want to... your choice.

D"Within the Jewish culture – the Jews have and use the phrase - YEẒER HA-RA'

R" Yes found only here:-

Ge 6:5 And GOD <Y@hovah> saw <ra'ah> that the wickedness <ra`> of man <'adam> was great <rab> in the earth <'erets>, and that every imagination <yetser> of the thoughts <machashabah> of his heart <leb> was only <raq> evil <ra`> continually <yowm>.

The phrase yester ha ra, does not exist as this phrase, but the sentence / verse exists with the words yester and ra in them.

Why don't Jews study a better Hebrew word??

Job 15:35 They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity,

You can born aven.  Aven is inherited....

Ps 28:3 Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.

Here is the true source of RA in their hearts, the aven humans are born with.

Where does RA aven come from? By sinning.

Ps 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

Notice the aven in your heart causes GOD to not hear you.

Pr 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

Same words are yester ra has, the imaginations of the heart, with aven.

Pr 12:21 ¶ There shall no evil happen to the just: but the wicked shall be filled with mischief.

78 verses use aven, all relate to aven as a recording of the sinning you do.

Zec 10:2 For the idols have spoken vanity,

And this word "idols"?

Eze 21:21 For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright, he consulted with images, he looked in the liver.

So this RA aven comes from Babylon and the CHaldeans.

Also the word continues into the NT torah too.

SHalom

[Dave]

D"2- How does this validate your self-made god of evil
R" It shows the torah speaks of the Tyrus and Ephraim as symbols of love and hate, of an Opposer and a Lover.
OK - D"3- How does this validate that your satan god created himself against God’s Will then changed God’s Plan also against God’s Will
R" NO where does your theory exist.

Not my theory – it is your teaching here
Ezk 28 an good-guy angele – a cherub – rose up against God out of pride
You God only created a tov world
Then your new satan god od ra – changed all of god’s tov creation – not it is all flawed
Now your satan god opposes the Creator’s right to rule the universe

Jan 12, 2024 19:52:30 GMT -5 Dave said:

Either your satan is so powerful that he can – oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe.
OR
R" Absolutely not, so stop raising this issue, how on earth can a creature oppose a Creator?
You really need to make up your mind

Both statements are contradictory – you cannot support both statements and remain honest.
You really need to make up your mind
You cannot argue both positions at the same time with any honesty at all

Man up – grow up – be consistent
As long as you continue to argue for and against yourself – no one can possible take you seriously

4- How does any of this validate your satan god in any way?
I showed you how the torah validates the SHAD and explains the origin of the SHAD.
Ho 9:13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
These are biological creatures – biological offspring
Man up – grow up – be consistent
As long as you continue to argue for and against yourself – no one can possible take you seriously

D" 5- How does this validate there is a cosmic struggle between two gods over the Creator’s right to rule His own creation
R" Why does GOD cast Ephraim away?
Answer: The Chaldeans of Babylon.

Thanks for the validation
G4567 - Σατανᾶς – Satanas - Of Chaldee origin

Re 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils,

Re 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Yep – the last battles between Israel and Islam - DUH


D"10- How is anything you have posted relevant to our discussion
R" Questions 6 to 10:
Doubt is you want to... your choice.
6- How does this explain why Ellen White can have 2000 spiritual experiences – but no one else in the world can – deny – call it satanic – pray against it as a good Christian
7- How does any of this disprove Jewish theology
8- How does any of this disprove Jewish demonology
9- How does anything you posted address Ellen White use of Islamic advent math
10- How is anything you have posted relevant to our discussion
Where is you intelligent response – where are your answers
----------------------------------------------

D"Within the Jewish culture – the Jews have and use the phrase - YEẒER HA-RA'
R" Yes found only here:-

Your ignorance of Judaism and what it actually teaches is obvious
jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10194-lust (YEẒER HA-RA)
Long part of Jewish teaching since (third century B.C.)

The phrase yester ha ra, does not exist as this phrase, but the sentence / verse exists with the words yester and ra in them.
Why don't Jews study a better Hebrew word??
Why do you need to redefine Jewish theology?

You can born aven. Aven is inherited....
No one is talking about aven except you – you changed the word – you rewrote the teaching – and now you can argue – it is just Robert Bull Shit

[rob]

Greetings Dave

"Your ignorance of Judaism and what it actually teaches is obvious
jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10194-lust (YEẒER HA-RA)
Long part of Jewish teaching since (third century B.C.)

This website is not Jewish quotes
Not even close

R"The idea is derived from Gen. viii. 21: "the imagination of the heart of man is evil from his youth." Yet from the use of the two "yods" in Gen. ii. 7, the Rabbis deduced that there are in man two Yeẓarim: the good (Yeẓer Ṭob) and the evil (Ber. 61a).

So you are allowed to speculate upon the two yod letters in a verse and add meanings within the verse yourself?

D" The greater the man the greater his Yeẓer ha-Ra'; and it is among the four things which God regretted to have created (Suk. 52a, b). It is identified with Satan and with the angel of death (B. B. 16a; comp. Maimonides, "Moreh," ii. 12, iii. 22).

R" So yester ra is identified with Satan, is it? How is this Jewish? and from 300 BC? even?

D" Why do you need to redefine Jewish theology?

R" Why does your link include a Satan in it? Really Dave,the Jews are really consistent?

Now perhaps do you have Jewish quotes on the yester ra, without references to Satan? This is a terrible website link.

Rob quotes" And it seems from the holy books, that initially, “man is born a wild ass” (Job 11:12), and he has no yetzer hatov, only yetzer hara, until he is 13 and becomes a bar mitzvah. 

How strange the Jew quotes Job 11:12 but fails to recognize the hebrew word aven on both sides

Job 11:11 For he knoweth <yada`> vain <shav'> men <math>: he seeth <ra'ah> wickedness <'aven> also; will he not then consider <biyn> it?
12 For vain <nabab> man <'iysh> would be wise <labab>, though man <'adam> be born <yalad> like a wild ass's <pere'> colt <`ayir>.
13 ¶ If thou prepare <kuwn> thine heart <leb>, and stretch <paras> out thine hands <kaph> toward him;
14 If iniquity <'aven> be in thine hand <yad>,

Funny how the Jew does not read the context, but picks and chooses words out of context to suit their inventions and traditions, the precepts of men?

Shalom

[Dave]

"Your ignorance of Judaism and what it actually teaches is obvious
jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10194-lust (YEẒER HA-RA)
Long part of Jewish teaching since (third century B.C.)

This website is not Jewish Not even close
Wow this us your Robert Method defense – the Jewish Encyclopedia is not Jewish
--------------------------------------------

R"The idea is derived from Gen. viii. 21: "the imagination of the heart of man is evil from his youth." Yet from the use of the two "yods" in Gen. ii. 7, the Rabbis deduced that there are in man two Yeẓarim: the good (Yeẓer Ṭob) and the evil (Ber. 61a).

So you are allowed to speculate upon the two yod letters in a verse and add meanings within the verse yourself?

Jan 15, 2024 15:22:40 GMT -5 Dave said:

Within the Jewish culture – the Jews have and use the phrase - YEẒER HA-RA'
Phonetically pronounced as (yester ha ra) – I, and many other authors use (yester ra)

What does it mean to a Jew or a student of Judaism? –
jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10194-lust - YEẒER HA-RA': (Redirected from LUST.)

What did it mean it mean to a James the brother of Jesus Christ?
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire.

--------------------------------------------

D" The greater the man the greater his Yeẓer ha-Ra'; and it is among the four things which God regretted to have created (Suk. 52a, b). It is identified with Satan and with the angel of death (B. B. 16a; comp. Maimonides, "Moreh," ii. 12, iii. 22).
R" So yester ra is identified with Satan, is it? How is this Jewish? and from 300 BC? even?

DUH – why are you surprise that Judaism is very Christian
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
--------------------------------------------

Rob quotes" And it seems from the holy books, that initially, “man is born a wild ass” (Job 11:12), and he has no yetzer hatov, only yetzer hara, until he is 13 and becomes a bar mitzvah.
DUH – why are you surprise that Judaism is very Christian
Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

[rob]

I repeat my understanding of Jews

The traditional Jew has no evil being called Satan.

Your website is a compilation by non-Jews writing for Jews.

I also note the two yods allow a Jews to make deductions regarding the yester ra idea. It this how one reads the torah? Not according to my reading of the torah.

It says line upon line... it does not say make deductions from the letters.

Shalom

[Dave]

I repeat my understanding of Jews
The traditional Jew has no evil being called Satan.

I repeat – you do not understand Jewish teaching

Jan 20, 2024 0:20:17 GMT -5 Dave said:

Who Is Satan? Rabbi Tovia Singer's Answer May Surprise You!

1:53- satan really exist – he is very real

4:55- with satan in the world – man would have no Free Will – no choice
Without the worldly choice – man would never want to sin

5:17 – Isa 45:7 - God created the tov and the ra = balance

Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Deu 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

God established the CONTEST

5:55 – is satan the enemy of God
6:15- No angel can go into a rebellion against God – that cannot happen
6:19- angels have no Free Will – they only do what they were created for

6:24- satan is there to give us Free Will
6:45- in Judaism – satan is nobody – you can step on his head and he is finished

6:52- the idea that satan is the god of this worls – is not Jewish – it is Gnostic

ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/617/origin-satan?page=2&scrollTo=9953

I also note the two yods allow a Jews to make deductions regarding the yester ra idea. It this how one reads the torah? Not according to my reading of the torah.
It says line upon line... it does not say make deductions from the letters.

Why do you deny that God commanded the beast to go forth and multiply
Why do you deny that god commanded man to go forth and multiple and subdue nature
Why do you teach that God commanded man to be aven wicked – it is not a Jewish teaching

[rob]

Greetings Dave

Now I have heard everything. Jews have a Opposer designed to Oppose man intentionally by God, so that Man would exercise free will.

We have been through all this over the years, I will leave you to this theory.
Funny when you first read Jewish material you don't stumble across a Satan, let alone a being created intentionally by God to oppose humans.

Just more examples of Jewish made up inventions and fables of men.
SHalom

[Dave]

Now I have heard everything. Jews have a Opposer designed to Oppose man intentionally by God, so that Man would exercise free will.

Jewish belief #1 – God is absolute – Anything that has come into being was made by God for God. God is absolute – His creation is exactly as He Willed it to be.
The Beast exist – therefore it is all part of God’s Plan – all God’s Will

Jewish belief #2 – God tests His people. - Why does God test His people? Deu 8:2 … in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.

We have been through all this over the years, I will leave you to this theory.
Correct – you must deny the Contest of Gen 3:14-24
Where both the serpent, and his seed, and earth are combatants on earth with man
God did it

Correct – you must deny the Contest of Deut 30:15-18
Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
God did it

Isa 4:7 - God created the tov and the ra = balance
God did it

Correct – you must deny the Contest of Gen 3:14-24 / Deut 30:15-18 / and first century commentary
Authoritative Teaching
And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.

He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.

Jewish belief #1 – God is absolute – Anything that has come into being was made by God for God. God is absolute – His creation is exactly as He Willed it to be.
The Beast exist – therefore it is all part of God’s Plan – all God’s Will
The Beast / serpent / archon serve a purpose within creation

Your satan – is just a created beast assign a role within God creation

You and Ellen White deny the sovereignty of God – limit His ability – diminish Him
And elevated your satan god to center stage

Jewish belief #2 – God tests His people. - Why does God test His people? Deu 8:2 … in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.

Jewish belief #3 - Why does God do it? - To reveal Himself, to reveal His power and glory
(to prove that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the one true God)

Just more examples of Jewish made up inventions and fables of men.

Just Judaism 101 – the theology of Jesus Christ – His disciples – and His original Pentecostal Messianic Jews

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jewish belief #1 – God is absolute
You and Ellen White deny the sovereignty of God – limit His ability – diminish Him
And elevated your satan god to center stage
The only reason you reject the teaching of Jesus Christ is that He does not praise your satan as a god

[rob]

Greetings Dave

My wife wanted me to talk Monday off because of this flu, so I can write one more time before going to work today.

I reject this teaching of yours (and Jews?) for one big reason:


(1) The Kabbalah says GOD does both tov and ra naturally. You also said the same thing, God does both tov and ra naturally so their is balance in our universe.

You do not understand what ra is. Ra is not something sacred and natural and holy nor some functional part of nature. Ra is the running down of design, the spoiling of design, the wearing our of design, the corruption of design. Given sufficient time the entire universes would cease to exist because of ra.

There is this notion God creates order out of disorder and function from dysfunction, and light from darkness, that ra such as entropy is necessary to make things work.

Consider a world without friction, without thermodynamic laws, can we like David Icke dare to ask "what if" questions? What if our universe never had ra in it? What would it look like and how would it run?

Ps 34:21 Evil shall slay the wicked:

Here the Psalm says "Dysfunction causes the death of the wicked"

This principle must apply to all things of matter too. Even the law of thermodynamics will make the universe run down, wear our and cease to exist, the common understanding of absolute zero, where the atom stops moving.

Ps 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

Verses like this simply state that ra does not dwell with GOD.

Ps 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

How uncanny the Hebrew word "aven" appears to close to "ra", the "workers of aven" is a common phrase in the torah. How silly Jews does not study their own torah with the Bible method of line upon line.

Ps 10:15 Break thou the arm of the wicked and the evil man: seek out his wickedness till thou find none.

Again the ra "man" God will make come to "bal" meaning "nothing".

Ps 34:14 Depart from evil, and do good;

Ps 34:16 The face of the LORD is against them that do evil,

These verses have the words "asah" "do" and "YHWH" and "ra" , the Lord does not do ra.

Isa 45:7 has the same words "asah" "do" and "YHWH" and "ra", except the "ra is created" when required...

The idea of "creating" is to make something from nothing? to bring into existence something that normally will not exist naturally.

So obviously "atoms" do not exist naturally.
Neither does darkness exist naturally, if God is light, the darkness vanishes.
This is why darkness is created, because it is not natural.

SO what things are natural in Is 45:7?

Light and peace.

What things are unnatural and require creating by GOD?

Darkness and dysfunction.

If these things are unnatural, why does GOD create them?

Notice the LORD is against those who do ra.

The Lord can't be against Himself, who does ra, so why does God do ra by creative means?

It seems to me the wicked cannot create ra so the Lord has to create the ra for them.

If you read the 50th Psalm, the wicked cast GOD's words away and thus have no faith in His words. Ps 50:17

Ps 50:19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil,

Here the verse says GOD gives our mouths to ability to speak ra, if we choose this option using our free will.

In Ps 51, it is when we are found missing God's powers flowing into our lives, that we do "Ra".

Ps 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight:

Ps 88:3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.
4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:

The word "nephesh" meaning "living energy" is full of "ra" and this is the reason why our "living energy" wears out, runs down and dies. The level of corruption in our cells becomes unsustainable.


Ps 91:9 ¶ Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

Passages like this tells me GOD does not do ra, nor has ra in Him, nor is ra functioning near His presence.

Pr 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

GOD hates ra, it says here.

Pr 12:13 ¶ The wicked is snared by the transgression of his lips:

This is interesting verse

The RA are trapped by the transgression of their lips.

This is the best definition of sin and missing. Missing GOD brings Ra.

If all the ten words are faithful, (ps119:86) than speaking the words of GOD by faith, brings a flow of His power, but if you fail to speak His words, there is a flow of Ra from your lips that break faith.


Isa 3:9 ¶ The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

Creatures that experience like Sodom, get their reward : :ra"

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom

SO the angels that sinned like Sodom are rewarded with "Ra"

In fact the "everlasting chains under darkness " show that "ra" is more final and permanent as "chains of steel" the "ra" will slay the angels that sinned.

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

One cannot say God came to the darkness first, and said let their be light. If God is light, why make the declaration?

Obviously the darkness over the earth was there for some reason of sin.

Jews do not consider this idea, nor does Dave.

----------------------

Jewish Does GOD do Ra?

jbqnew.jewishbible.org/assets/Uploads/311/311_CALF31-1.pdf

It was not the Golden Calf as such, but as
the embodiment of Ra, who was being hailed as the one who brought them
out of Egypt. For Ra was also a universal god. The God of Israel was being
replaced by the pagan deity Ra.
Moses, reared in the royal court of Egypt, was undoubtedly familiar with
the worship of Ra. What he witnessed was not a celebration of God, but the
affirmation of a pagan deity. It was apostasy, pure and simple. The people
were backsliding into paganism. His anger was not misplaced. For as the
psalmist put it: They exchanged their glory for the likeness of a bull eating

grass.

Rob" The Egyptian God is called RA. I wonder why? The letter alelph is the "bull" the strong one. The very first letter of Hebrew.

www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/433240/jewish/God.htm

Of course, the universe has certain elements that are not in a story. For one thing, its characters are real in a way that story characters are not real. They are (within limits) their own free agents. They can choose the paths by which their story will play out (again, within limits).

ROB" Even the Opposer has his limits and controls.... love the passage above...

www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/987018/jewish/Should-We-Use-Gender-Neutral-Language-for-G-d.htm

When the first human being was created, G‑d “blew into his nostrils the breath of life.”3 In Hebrew, that breath of life is the neshamah. Within you, at your very core, that neshamah breathes according to your unique role in the universe. Together, as a single whole, all these divine breaths comprise the entire inner spirit of the Shechinah that is invested within G‑d’s creation, just as in that primal human being.

In our prayers, your neshamah speaks. She doesn’t speak for herself alone. She becomes nothing more than a channel through which the Shechinah speaks.


ROB" Sometimes I love the Jewish commentaries. Yes the HS does not speak for her alone, but it a medium for through which the presence of G_D speaks.

I quote" Within you, at your very core, that neshamah breathes according to your unique role in the universe."

Wish Dave understood this fact. Thank you Jewish commentary. The neshamah is what makes us me...unique.

Rob" Hmm? I can't even continue past this one point, why I so disagree with you.

Shalom