Where are the scholars who agree with you?
Show me one of their studies.
get your scholarly articles posted with links I can access freely.
Yes - Paul was very much a Gnostic
This is a long video - a college lecture - from one PhD to others
An academic presentation of the NT Gnosticism - accurate - honest
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I know this is a long video – I have never read Elain Pagels before – other than in quotes by others.To me this is so much more valuable than a churchSDA teach there way
Catholics teach their way
Baptist teach their way
Elanin Pagels is a esteemed college professor - looking at it academically
She is not preaching it as her personal belief – just presenting the dataI feel so validated – my impression of the Nag Hammadi’s overall message is so close to her presentation it makes me smile –
I differ on a few points that I will post in redI am not a college professor – and I am preaching – Christianity first – then Gnostic as a supplement - so I will say some things in defense of the NT Christian view
Seriously – I tried to take just a few notes – but cannot
I address this to Robert – if you want to know my views of Gnosticism – here it is
No she does not talk about satan – that is a different discussion
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The first 6-7:45 minutes is just introduction
08:00 – The Nag Hammadi – what is it?
12:30 - Irenaeus and his Roman Edit
15:00 The Gospel of Thomas is actually the first Gospel?
16:50 – IMPORTANT INFORMATION Jesus taught like a Rabbi teaches – there is the public message and the private messageRabbis taught generalities to the public – but in private spoke more specifically
Just as church has a sermon for the congregation – and a Bible study group for the serious
Jesus taught the public parables – but in private with His Disciple He spoke privately
18:00 – in Judaism – you have the public teaching (Torah) and the private teaching (Kabbalah)
Catholics have the Catechism for the public – only the priest have access to the Archives
A small town priest – is not even aware of the information used by Vatican Exorcist
Public teaching –vrs- private teaching
18:45 – IMPORTANT INFORMATIONIrenaeus – the reason for the Roman Edit There can be no secret teaching – no private teaching – only the one version – the public version
Thus the invention of Gnostics have ‘Secret Knowledge’ – that must be kept from the public
19:30 - Mar 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mar 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Jesus taught the public parables – but in private with His Disciples He spoke of the mysteries20:00 – INTERESTING
Preachers say Jesus taught in parables to make things simple
Jesus says He speaks in parables to keep things hidden
Today – we would say – the public can’t handle the truth22:30 – the Kingdom of God – where is it?
(Gospel of Thomas) 113 His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
<Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
Luk 17:20 (KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luk 17:20 (TLV) Now when Yeshua was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with signs to be seen.
Luk 17:21 Nor will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or ‘There!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
(GOT) was not meant to replace the Gospel – but to supplementGospel = public teaching = The Good News
(Gospel of Thomas) 1 These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down.-------------------
(GOT) 18 The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."
(19) Jesus said, "Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being.Trinity –
God always existed
First birth - God entered His creation Gen 1:3 the LIGHT = Christ
Second birth – God entered His creation as a man = Jesus ChristHave you discovered the beginning and end? –
TIME
Only on earth does man experience LINEAR TIME
ONCE YOU TOUCH THE SPIRITUAL – time becomes different – more fluid
John at Patmos – time traveled to the future to witness Armageddon – he wrote what he saw
If time is fluid – when you accept Christ – you share that moment with Christ on the cross
If time is fluid – waiting centuries to be resurrected – vrs – meta death (Heb 9:27) is nonsense
If time is fluid – Heb 4:1-11 – Day 7 can still be open to those seeking rest
If time is fluid – 6/24hr Days of Creation –vrs- longer is nonsense25:20 – a discussion of DIVISION and MARRIAGE*(* Robert – you can find strength in your marriage views at 41:00) Gen 1:3 = the E of God – the Glory of God – Light – energy being – an essence of E
Who is Jesus?(GOT) 77 Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the all. From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."
32:00 – creation of Adam – Gen 1:26 – created as E – the essence of E – spirit
33:20 – if you look deep within yourself – you will find that the source of your being = Divine Energy
We are the LIGHT – but it is hidden34:15 – we are Light – and if Illuminated we light up the world
If it is not illuminated – everything is dark
34:45 – The Gospel of Thomas is about a transformation of identity
Who are you – and – where do you live?
35:20 – a discussion about baptism – leading up to a second form of baptism 36:00(GOT) 49 Jesus said, "Blessed are the solitary and elect, for you will find the kingdom. For you are from it, and to it you will return."
50 Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where did you come from?', say to them, 'We came from the light, the place where the light came into being on its own accord and established itself and became manifest through their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?', say, 'We are its children, we are the elect of the living father.' If they ask you, 'What is the sign of your father in you?', say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'"
36:45 – we all came from the primordial light – in the beginning
38:00 – Thomas = Twin – whose twin?
(GOT) 108 Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him."
40:00 - Looking in the Mirror and seeing yourself
(GOT) 77 Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the all. From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."
Looking into a spiritual mirror - If you see the Divine Energy within – it changes you – you are converted
41:00 –
(* Robert – you can find strength in your marriage views)(GOT) 114 Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."
Dave – Ancient cultures were male dominate – it was the Father’s responsibility
if the man was saved so was all his household and his servants – if not, too bad for everyone
Today – many women are in the role of ‘man of the house’ – they assume the role of being responsible for themselves
In heaven eyes men and women are equal – as far as salvation
42:00 Pagels presents a Rabbinic version
Gen 1:27 God created humankind in His image, in the image of God He created him, (singular)
A Rabbi said – this image = the LIGHT of Gen 1:3 – man was created as a singular androgynous spirit being
Gen 1:27 God created humankind … male and female He created them.
The Rabbi says – this singular androgynous spirit being was – slip in two – biological male and biological female – now split apart, we no longer understand our true selves
(GOT) 22 Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."
There is something about the reconciliation of the two halves to being one
(* Robert – you can find strength in your marriage views)------------------------------------------------------------
46:40 – Her impression why the Gospel of Thomas was rejected from the canon1- the public message = Jesus as unique – you are dependent upon Jesus and Jesus only
Who is Jesus – you better know who Jesus is
2- this “secret” teaching is a spiritual conversation / transformation
Who are you – you better know who you are
WHICH IS VERY JEWISH KABBALAH
Could Jesus have known this teaching?
Dave - Valentinius taught 3 types of Christians
1- the Lost
2- the believer - saved but not First Fruits
3- the spiritual Christian - Born Again - baptism of the Holy Spirit
Rome could not control - Christians lead by the spirit - they already have a King and a mission to perfrom49:10 –
I learned something – the Zohar dates to 1500 Spain – true
I guess I always thought – or blamed – the Roman Edit for the missing ancient text
She says – there was a Jewish probation against writing it down – so the ignorant do not miss-use it
Yes- the last part of the Zohar is so complicated that many Rabbis do not understand it at all – but it contains the incantations used by King Solomon to call for the demons – and instructions on how to make a Golum (a FRANKENSTEIN monster that saved the Jews from German persecution in the 12th Century)) – all of it Jewish in origin50:00 Gnosis = recognition –– knowledge of the heart – belief in the heart – do you know GodRecognize who you are – we are the Light – of that primordial Light – we are the children of God
Dave - Recognize what is in your sight53:00 different than Joh 8:23 Yeshua said, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
Yep - man = animal with (yester ra) and Christ / Spirit is the home of (yester tov)54:20 – Gospel of Phillip – don’t just be a Christian – be a Christos (be a Christ to another – generate fruit)
Christ came here - to witness and save others - before He returned to heaven
We came here - to souljourn here and Jer 1:5 - before we return to heaven
Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
Do your job - witness and generate fruit be a christ to aother------------------------------------------------
55:00 – Rome – Emperor Constantine1- At the time – there were many different “Christian groups” spread all over the Roman Empire
2- How does he unify his vast empire?
Answer – unify all the different Christian groups into one unified Christian church (Catholic) with him as God’s representative on earth
3- 312-325AD Emperor Constantine told Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea, - to organize the Bible (gather the canon)
Eusebius of Caesarea, also known as Eusebius Pamphilus, was a Greek or Palestinian historian of Christianity, exegete, and Christian polemicist. In about AD 314 he became the bishop of Caesarea Maritima in the Roman province of Syria Palaestina. Wikipedia4- What is canon and what is not - Athanasius I of Alexandria said use my list
(although the final debate was not completed until 1654 Council of trent)
Athanasius I of Alexandria, also called Athanasius the Great, Athanasius the Confessor, or, among Coptic Christians, Athanasius the Apostolic, was a church father and the 20th pope of Alexandria. Wikipedia
5- The POINT OF THE CANON – to separate the public teaching from garbage – of course
The POINT OF THE CANON – to separate the public teaching from the private teaching
The Nag Hammadi Library was a group of Christian Monks in the desert of Egypt
When the order came down to destroy the text – they were hidden instead
To be found again in 1945
1:00:00 – THE ROMAN EDIT
once in power – any writing that contained any secret knowledge had to be destroyedDifferences - do not missunderstand -
Gnostic Christianitty does not preach that we are each a small piece of God Himself
Instead - man - angels - (other etherial creaturs if any) - and lastly archon - THE HOST OF HEAVEN - are all created beings by God
Her Rabbi example say Gen 1:26 Day 6 the spirit of man was created - I say day 1 with all the Host (Chabad.org)
