Robert Exposed

[Dave]

Robert's view of creation – earth appeared fully formed and it was tov only
There were no volcanos, no earth quakes, no carnivores, nothing died (plant or animal) until Adam sinned.

Eve lied and nothing happened
The serpent lied and nothing happened
Eve sinned and nothing happened
But only after Adam sinned did all creation change

Such changes in the animals eating habits came about when Adam sinned, God cursed nature, and removed his powers from nature a little, allowing animals to seek alternative foods, or else if they couldn't they would die.

Yet you have no empirical evidence of your supposed fact
You just make an assumption

Why doesn’t Roman 1:19-20 validate your teaching?

Why do you deny scripture?

Robert was offered a chance to go through each line of scripture that speak of satan and prove his theology
Robert finally agreed to comply – after much urging
He talked about rules and language – wheat and tares – and if man was made lower than and angel as scripture says – or lower than God as he wants to claim

Still – Robert as delayed – avoided – stalled – and is unwilling to face the truth – without his metaphor of Ezk 28 – scripture does not support his satan teaching that Hebrew satan rebeled, hates, and opposes God

Sometimes you say weird things :-

I quote" Darkness came first – Gen 1:2 / Rev 12:3
Light came next – Gen 1:3 / Rev 12:5

And you say Darkness came first. Is complete bogus idea to me

Why do you deny scripture?

You deny the spirit
and you must deny scripture to follow Ellen White

1Pe 3:18  For Messiah once suffered for sins also—the righteous for the unrighteous—in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Ruach. 
1Pe 3:19  Through the Ruach He also went and preached to the spirits in prison. 
1Pe 3:20  Long ago they disobeyed while God kept waiting patiently, in the days of Noah as the ark was being built. In that ark a few (that is, eight souls) were brought safely through water. 

Why do you deny scripture?

You are confused because you deny the GRACE of the Divine Pardon of Zec 3
You make salvation a conditional thing of works

You have NO trust in salvation – you teach that you can loose your Divine Pardon

Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Free will choice is choosing which elohiym you will serve, nothing to do with the world.

I know you doubt it – but
THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD
everything else is a created being – of the world

Rom 1:18  ... In unrighteousness they suppress the truth, 
Rom 1:19  because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. 
Rom 1:20  His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— 
Rom 1:21  for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. Instead, their thinking became futile, and their senseless hearts were made dark. 
Rom 1:22  Claiming to be wise, they became fools. 

I say – science is uncovering the amazing finely tuned reality we have designed so that life can thrive – praise the Lord
Your say – science can only see the flawed world left to us by your satan
You give the praise to the wrong god – and your Ellen White crap is the subject of fools

Dave" Correct – the orgin story of the Beast is not recorded in the OT – it is recorded in the NT
Rob" Than the NT torah is invalid.

Yes there is an awful lot of NT scripture you must deny to follow Ellen White
Just more evidence of her satanic connection

She taught that everyone should read scripture differently – more evidence of her satanic connection

ROb" Since half of Bible is poetry, man is required to write what He sees and what He thinks the poetry parallels are, hence no two people every agree on all the aspects of the poem.

WOW – isn’t that a satanic message – divide and conqueror – keep the Christians fighting among themselves

Did you learn this satanic message from Ellen White?

She has taught you it is OK to modify scripture to fit your denominational traditions

She has firmly convinced you to deny the spirit –
more evidence of her satanic connection

Now she has you convinced that the NT Gospel is invalid -
Just more evidence of her satanic connection

It is impossible to take Robert seriously any more – he clearly denies the New Testament Gospel in favor of the Gospel of Ellen White

Ellen White has taught Robert to deny the very essence of Judaeo-Christianity
His message is anti-Christian and extremely argumentative

and is built upon the Zoroasterian concept of two opposing gods – one good and one evil.

Ellen White has taught Robert to doubt and deny – even so far as to as all science is incorrect – all history is incorrect – and all our Jewish forefathers were incorrect.

We can only hope that he is one day touched by the spirit so he can realize all his doubts are unfounded

No wonder he says

I hope that we discuss amanuh as the torah reveils.
Tried to discuss it with you – but you don’t want to believe – you have so many excuses not to believe

I too would like to know how to be saved just as much as anybody else.
I do not know currently what amanuh is in a true sense, until others verfiy the term with me.
You are unwilling to believe – you need tangible things to vaidate your reiglion

I am sure you TRY REALLY HARD
I am sure you PRAY endlessly
I am sure to talk Christian in public
But in your heart – Ellen White has taught you to doubt and you cannot let her go
You give your satan way too much praise and credit
Your whole religion is satan-centric – a Great Controversy between two gods
For four years on this Forum all you want to do is validate you satan as a god

You seek the wrong god

Robert claims to be a Christian
YET – is willing to denounce the New Testament

Someone is deluding themselves – or is an active agent for misinformation
Someone is so indoctrinated into his satanic cult that he is willing to deny the truth of scripture
Or someone is just pretending and having fun trying to tear down basic Christian principles

I told Robert before – I know who you are

[Richard]

It is impossible to take Robert seriously any more – he clearly denies the New Testament Gospel in favor of the Gospel of Ellen White

Ellen White has taught Robert to deny the very essence of Judaeo-Christianity
His message is anti-Christian and extremely argumentative

Thank You
I was wondering how long you would put up with him

We can only hope that he is one day touched by the spirit so he can realize all his doubts are unfounded

Could not agree more!
It is easy to condemn what you do not know.
His resistance to the spirit only keeps it distant from him.

No wonder he says
I hope that we discuss amanuh as the torah reveils.
I too would like to know how to be saved just as much as anybody else.
I do not know currently what amanuh is in a true sense, until others verfiy the term with me.

All these years denying scripture and he still hasn’t found his answer within his own denomination
That seems deliberate – ‘You can check in, but you can never leave.”
You and I have had that discussion many times.
As you say, ‘anything to sidetrack man from the truth.’

I told Robert before – I know who you are.

We all know!

[Dave]

Robert claims to be a Christian
YET – is willing to denounce the New Testament

1 - Someone is deluding themselves – or is an active agent for misinformation
2 - Someone is so indoctrinated into his satanic cult that he is willing to deny the truth of scripture
3 - Or someone is just pretending and having fun trying to tear down basic Christian principles

I have tried to give Robert the benifit of 2
Now you just have to wonder between 1 and 3

My prayers are with him

[Dillon]

Sept 16, 2023 15:59:59 GMT -5 Dillon said:

Rob - I went once as a young teacher to a boys church, his Dad was the Pastor, and they had some dude come from Sydney to teach the church how to speak in tongues, get all filled by the spirit. I prayed to God to stop this man teaching the assembly, and he could not speak in tongues. Nor could he by private meeting later in the week, I was there too.

Why would a christian be proud of this, or even confess this?

In Mark 3:29 Jesus says that “whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.” Matthew's account adds that even blasphemy against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matthew 12:31–32)

[Dave]

Sept 24, 2023 0:40:30 GMT -5 Dave said:

Sept 23, 2023 10:17:34 GMT -5 Dave said:

Dave" Why won’t you return the courtesy and answer question asked of you?
Can’t you defend you own words?
ROb" I can, what question did you clearly ask?

Sept 22, 2023 10:30:12 GMT -5 Dave said:

Sept 17, 2023 15:15:21 GMT -5 Dave said:

Dave" Now explain why you call SIN a sacrifice to the Lord
ROb" still no understand you?

Of course you don’t because I have quoted you back to you twice - three times - four times -five times – six times - seven times

Sept 16, 2023 10:08:09 GMT -5 Dave said:

Ge 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Notice "sin-offering" lieth at the door. The door is a reference to the door of the mind.

Does Dave mock this as covenant thinking? Or does Dave read this literally? So if sin lies at the door? What door Dave? What could this mean to you and literalist?

The door of your heart
Now explain why you call SIN a sacrifice to the Lord

Rom 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 

You have presented this as - by one man’s sin offering - sin entered into the world,

I have asked you to explain before – why do you consider sin a sacrifice to god
I say sin is a sacrifice to the BEAST if anything
You give your praise to the wrong god

Robert will not answer – because he has been caught in another Robert Method failure – which leads to another Robert false teaching

G2525 - καθίστημι - kathistēmi = simply means to establish
NOT to rule over as Robert force it to mean

G746 - ἀρχή - archē / archon = means first in order, rank, or time - it can mean a creature (an authority / a ruler)
NOT on the beginning of time as Robert tried to force it to mean

G4566 Hebrew satan and G4567 Chaldean satan are both translated as satan in English
They are not from the same root - or the same language - and represent two different creatures
NOT - the same creature as Robert teaches

G4151 - πνεῦμα - pneuma - From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul,
spirit simply means spirit - NOT the Holy Spirit as Robert teaches

H7307 - רוּחַ - rûach - From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions)
spirit simply means spirit - NOT the Holy Spirit as Robert teaches

Robert plays these false word games in an attempt to bend scripture to Ellen White's tradition
Robert - has already decided what scripture should say - then he chases words to support (anumah) his pre-concieved conclusion - his faith (anumah) strong support does not = belief in the truth
It is not an honest study

[Dave]

G2525 - καθίστημι - kathistēmi = simply means to establish
NOT to rule over as Robert force it to mean

G746 - ἀρχή - archē / archon = means first in order, rank, or time - it can mean a creature (an authority / a ruler)
NOT on the beginning of time as Robert tried to force it to mean

G4566 Hebrew satan and G4567 Chaldean satan are both translated as satan in English
They are not from the same root - or the same language - and represent two different creatures
NOT - the same creature as Robert teaches

G4151 - πνεῦμα - pneuma - From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul,
spirit simply means spirit - NOT the Holy Spirit as Robert teaches

H7307 - רוּחַ - rûach - From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions)
spirit simply means spirit - NOT the Holy Spirit as Robert teaches

Exo 20:13  Do not murder.  - Does NOT mean - no wounding
H7523 – רָצַח – râtsach - A primitive root; properly to dash in pieces, that is, kill (a human being), especially to murder: - put to death, kill, (man-) slay (-er), murder (-er).

G1329 – διερμηνεύω – diermēneuō - From G1223 and G2059; to explain thoroughly; by implication to translate: - expound, interpret (-ation).
(and by this Robert means from one language to another – grammar - spelling)

There was a time that I thought Robert a lost sheep looking for guidance
Or, someone who wanted to study scripture deeply

BUT ALAS – Robert’s only intention is to be the antagonist
It is obvious he has no respect for the word of God

Robert’s word study method

Robert’s idea (borrowed from Jeff Brenner)
1- Hebrew words are built on short simple roots words – therefore the base root meaning always dictates the meaning of the word.
2- Therefore at the root – there is no Polysemous words in Hebrew

This is a true statement – and Jeff Brenner is famous for implementing it in his mechanical translations of Hebrew

www.sil.org/resources/archives/77410
Polysemy and Homonymy in Biblical Hebrew
Frank, David B 2018, Entry Number: 77410
PDF icon siljot2018_1_02.pdf 295.94 KB
Available Online: doi.org/10.54395/jot-3rkrr

Journal of Translation
Series Issue: 14(1), Issue Date: 2018
Publisher: SIL International, Dallas, Texas
Subject Languages: Ancient Hebrew [hbo]
Journal article - Subject: Polysemy, Lexicon, Homonymy, Etymology,

Abstract:
In the analysis of Hebrew lexical items there is sometimes a tendency to interpret words exclusively based on their root meaning. In fact, the one-sided etymological analysis of Hebrew words is particularly tempting, because most Hebrew words are constructed around lexical roots consisting of two or three (sometimes four) consonants that are shared in common by a family of related words.

Yes – this is Jeff Brenner’s approach

Deriving the meaning of a lexical item exclusively from its root meaning while disregarding the phenomenon of semantic shift, which is frequently caused by metonymy, can lead to incorrect interpretations. Hebrew lexicons such as Brown–Driver–Briggs (BDB) sometimes contribute to this error due to interpreting words as polysemous lexical items when they should be interpreted as homonyms with non-related meanings.

the phenomenon of semantic shift
Paleo Hebrew was a pure Hebrew script – but it is long gone
By the time the Tanak came to us – Pale Hebrew had been exposed to many other semantic languages.

The Tanak is filled with non-Hebrew words

www.asor.org/anetoday/2020/06/loanwords-hebrew-bible
Non-Semitic Loanwords in the Hebrew Bible
A Lexicon of Language Contact
Benjamin J. Noonan
Of the 235 loanwords, I identify 150 words that were borrowed directly from a non-Semitic language into either Hebrew or Aramaic. The vast majority (135) . of these non-Semitic loanwords come from Egyptian, Greek, Hittite, Luvian, Hurrian, Old Indic, or Old Iranian (Chaldean). The remainder (15) come from other less well-known languages like Philistine.

Jeff Brenner’s exception #1 – He is an academic - a Linguist
Hebrew root analysis – only works with Hebrew words
Robert says – they are all written in Hebrew – so they are all Hebrew words

Jeff Brenner’s exception #2 – Contronyms are are recognised form of Hebrew Polysemous

Contronyms
(Digital Commons @ Butler University)
Left is just one of many words or expressions known as a contronym—or contranym—a word that has two meanings that are opposite or nearly opposite. 

Example – there were 4 people at a party – 2 left and 2 are left

A contronym or autantonym is a polysemous word where one of the meanings is the antonym of another—that is, a word which is its own opposite

Robert – agrees that Hebrew words are Contronyms – but cannot use the word Polysemous because it is a WORD he argues against – because he likes to argue words

Jeff Brenner’s exception #3 – CONTEXT
If words can have opposite means, how can we tell which meaning is implied?
Answer = Context

homonym
(Digital Commons @ Butler University)
Two or more words having the same spelling or pronunciation but different meanings and origins.

Preexisting in hebrew
H1167 – בַּעַל – ba‛al - bah'-al
From H1166; a master; hence a husband, or (figuratively) owner (often used with another noun in modifications of this latter sense: -    + archer, + babbler, + bird, captain, chief man, + confederate, + have to do, + dreamer, those to whom it is due, + furious, those that are given to it, great, + hairy, he that hath it, have, + horseman, husband, lord, man, + married, master, person,

H1166 – בָּעַל – bâ‛al - baw-al'
A primitive root; to be master; hence (as denominative from H1167) to marry: - Beulah have dominion (over), be husband, marry (-ried, X wife).

Then one day Israel bumped into another Canaanite tribe called the Phoenicians – who worshiped a god name Baal

H1168 – בַּעַל – ba‛al - bah'-al
The same as H1167; Baal, a Phoenician deity: - Baal,

homonyms - Two or more words having the same spelling or pronunciation but different meanings and origins.
Hebrew Baal + Phoenician deity: - Baal
------------------------------

Preexisting in hebrew
H1709 - דָּאג    דָּג - dâg    dâ'g - dawg,    dawg
From H1711; a fish (as prolific); or perhaps rather from H1672 (as timid); but still better from H1672 (in the sense of squirming, that is, moving by the vibratory action of the tail); a fish (often used collectively): - fish.

Then one day Israel bumped into another Canaanite tribe called the Philistines – who worshiped a god name Dagon / Dogon

H1712 – דָּגוֹן – dâgôn - daw-gohn'
From H1709; the fish god; Dagon, a Philistine deity: - Dagon.

homonyms - Two or more words having the same spelling or pronunciation but different meanings and origins.
Hebrew dag + Philistine deity: - Dagon.
--------------------------------------

Preexisting in Hebrew
H4427 – מָלַךְ - mâlak - maw-lak'
A primitive root; to reign; inceptively to ascend the throne; causatively to induct into royalty; hence (by implication) to take counsel: - consult, X indeed, be (make, set a, set up) king, be (make) queen, (begin to, make to) reign (-ing), rule, X surely.

Preexisting in Chaldean
H4430 – מֶלֶךְ - melek - meh'-lek
(Chaldee); corresponding to H4428; a king: - king, royal.

Then one day Israel bumped into another Canaanite tribe called the Ammonites – who worshiped a god name Molech

H4432 – מֹלֶךְ - môlek - mo'-lek
From H4427; (Chaldean) Molek (that is, king), the chief deity of the Ammonites: - Molech.

homonyms - Two or more words having the same spelling or pronunciation but different meanings and origins.
Hebrew malak + an Amorite deity Molek
----------------------

Preexisting in Hebrew
H7489 – רָעַע – râ‛a‛ - raw-ah'
A primitive root; properly to spoil (literally by breaking to pieces); figuratively to make (or be) good for nothing, that is, bad (physically, socially or morally). (associate selves and show self friendly are by mistake for H7462.): - afflict, associate selves [by mistake for H7462], break (down, in pieces), + displease, (be, bring, do) evil (doer, entreat, man), show self friendly [by mistake for H7462], do harm, (do) hurt, (behave self, deal) ill, X indeed, do mischief, punish, still vex, (do) wicked (doer, -ly), be (deal, do) worse.

Preexisting in Egyptian – RA – the sun god – king of the sky

homonyms - Two or more words having the same spelling or pronunciation but different meanings and origins.
---------------------------

Preexisting in Hebrew
H7854 – שָׂטָן – śâṭân - saw-tawn'
From H7853; an opponent; especially (with the article prefixed) Satan, the arch enemy of good: - adversary, Satan, withstand.

Transliterated into Greek
G4566 – Σατᾶν – Satan - sat-an'
Of Hebrew origin [H7854]; Satan, that is, the devil: - Satan.

Hebrew satan – an angel of the Lord in service to the Lord

Then one day Israel bumped into another Canaanite tribe called the Chaldean - MODERN DAY ARABIA (PERSIA) – who worshiped many gods – and their Jinn

G4567 – Σατανᾶς – Satanas - sat-an-as'
Of Chaldee origin - the accuser, that is, the devil: - Satan.

That appears over and over in the NT as the BEAST of Revelations
Rev 12:9  And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satanas, who deceives the whole world.

homonyms - Two or more words having the same spelling or pronunciation but different meanings and origins.
Hebrew satan + Chaldean satanas
-------------------------------

All of these are examples of loanwords from other cultures being brought into the Hebrew Lexicon

Jeff Brenner exception #3 - Context
If words can have opposite means,
Or are borrowed proper nouns for new and different things from outside cultures
how can we tell which meaning is implied?
Answer = Context

Robert calls out these exception of Jeff Brenner as inconsistencies
Accusing Jeff Brenner of abandoning his own root analysts to conform to religious tradition

The difference – Jeff Brenner is an honest academic – true linguist
Respected by everyone
Robert is just playing word games – doesn’t even try to be academic or honest
-------------------------------------

Preexisting in Hebrew
H2398 – חָטָא – châṭâ' - khaw-taw'
A primitive root; properly to miss; hence (figuratively and generally) to sin; by inference to forfeit, lack, expiate, repent, (causatively) lead astray, condemn: - bear the blame, cleanse, commit [sin], by fault, harm he hath done, loss, miss, (make) offend (-er), offer for sin, purge, purify (self), make reconciliation, (cause, make) sin (-ful, -ness), trespassive

A non-polysemous Hebrew word - sin

Also preexisting in Hebrew
H2403 - חַטָּאת    חַטָּאָה - chaṭṭâ'âh    chaṭṭâ'th - khat-taw-aw', khat-tawth'
From H2398; an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness), and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation; also (concretely) an offender: - punishment (of sin), purifying (-fication for sin), sin (-ner, offering).

he KJV translates Strong's H2403 in the following manner: sin (182x), sin offering (116x), punishment (3x), purification for sin (2x), purifying (1x), sinful (1x), sinner (1x).

A polysemous – contronym – that means both ‘to sin’ – or to make a ‘sin offering’ (a sacrifice to the Lord)

Rob-
Gen 4:7  If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin-offering lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 

Gen 4:7  If you do well, it will lift. But if you do not do well, sin-offering is crouching at the doorway. Its desire is for you, but you must master it.” 

THE QUESTION – Why does Robert choose to read it this way?
More importantly why does he teach it to others this way?
Once called-out on it, why doesn’t Robert seem to care?

Robert’s
Rom 5:12  So then, just as sin-offering came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. 

Robert’s Method of dragging Hebrew words into the NT fails

The word here is -
G266 – ἁμαρτία – hamartia - ham-ar-tee'-ah
From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).
Never does it means a sacrifice to the Lord – NEVER

Is it just innocent ignorant game play by Robert – or a deliberate attempt to corrupt?
-------------------------------------

Robert then wants to translate all the NT Greek into his own version of Hebrew – Just how corrupt a document would that be?

Don Patton is a creationist charlatan – a pseudo-science buffoon
Robert is doing his best to imitate the same twisting of the facts to present his theology – No wonder Robert praises Don Patton as one of his most favorite speakers – he has all his videos – they speak alike

It is twisting science – in Robert’s case linguistics – to present a false narrative – a false teaching

Is it just innocent ignorant game play by Robert – or a deliberate attempt to corrupt?
------------------------------------------

At the same time

Robert actively argues against mainstream Judaeo-Christianity
1- He promotes a pantheon of gods that all monotheistic believers reject
2- He promotes a satan god of evil that all monotheistic believers reject
3- he teaches a weak god that lost control of his own creation

4- He denies the Spirit – that the Spirit of God is the Holy Sp[irit
5- He denies that man has a spirit
6- He denies that Jesus Christ was God incarnate – the image of God on earth

The most common response to Christianity – I don’t believe

THE QUESTION – Why does Robert choose to read it this way?
More importantly why does he teach it to others this way?
Once called-out on it, why doesn’t Robert seem to care?
Is it just innocent ignorant game play by Robert – or a deliberate attempt to corrupt?
-----------------------------------------------

Dave’s word study

châṭâ' - sin
chaṭṭâ'âh  - sin or sin-offering

What difference does the ‘ah’ make?
(google) Why do Hebrew names end in ah?
In Hebrew the “-ah” suffix may connote the feminine form. For instance one has “Sar” meaning “lord, prince” and “Sarah” meaning “lady, princess.” There is also the name “Yah” (or “Yahu”) meaning “God”. This may be added to the end of names.

(Quora) The suffix “ah” appears on the end of many Hebrew names and words, and means “of God” or “from God.” Not every Hebrew word translates easily, and a lot depends on the translator.

Abram – became Abraham
Abram + Her from God
Abram + of God

Sarai – became Sarah
Sarai + her from God
Sarai + of God

châṭâ' - sin
chaṭṭâ'âh  - sin / or sin-offering (+ her from God / of God)[/quote]

[Dave]

Oct 4, 2023 15:17:52 GMT -5 rob said:

Out of respect Robert failed to post this to the correct thread

G2525 - καθίστημι - kathistēmi = simply means to establish
NOT to rule over as Robert forced it to mean[/font]
Here is all the contexts using Dave's word meaning:-

Sorry Robert – we have been all over this –
you even agreed to edit your own website because of your error
Your attempt tp rewrite scripture is rejected
-------------------------

G746 - ἀρχή - archē / archon = means first in order, rank, or time - it can mean a creature (an authority / a ruler)
NOT on the beginning of time as Robert tried to force it to mean
Rob" Are you wanting to make this a SINGLE word meaning or some Polysemous meaning?

G746 – ἀρχή - archē - ar-khay'
From G756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concrete) chief (in various applications of order, time, place or rank): - beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.
------------------------

G4566 Hebrew satan and G4567 Chaldean satan are both translated as satan in English
They are not from the same root - or the same language - and represent two different creatures
NOT - the same creature as Robert teaches
ROb" Where is your scholar who agrees with you ?
You have not read what I posted
------------------------------

G4151 - πνεῦμα - pneuma - From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul,
spirit simply means spirit - NOT the Holy Spirit as Robert teaches

Mt 1:18 ...of <ek> the Holy <hagios> Ghost <pneuma>.
Mt 1:20 of <ek> the Holy <hagios> Ghost <pneuma>.
Mt 3:16 ...he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Really Dave, you deny the NT with your ideas.

How?
I have always said the Holy Spirit id the spirit of God – just as your verse says
Math 1:18 / 1:20 = hagios (Holy) Spirit
G40 – ἅγιος – hagios - hag'-ee-os
From ἅγος hagos (an awful thing) compare G53, [H2282]; sacred (physically pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially consecrated):

What is your point?
What does this have to do with angels being spirits
Or archon as evil spirits
Or the Spirit of Man
-------------------------------

H7307 - רוּחַ - rûach - From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions)
spirit simply means spirit - NOT the Holy Spirit as Robert teaches
Rob" Now you are gone with the world and you mock the torah in the OT even.

So what WORD meaning do place on RUWACH Dave? "spirit"

How does a "spirit" also mean "wind"? (it can't) 
Because it is invisible ans blows where ever it wishes
Because it is as omnipresent as air

You once agreed with me the word meaning "medium" now you change your idea, so you can mock me. Medium can mean both spirit and wind, but not "spirit" on its own.

Nope – agree the Holy is the medium / matrix / ether of the multiverse
She is E expanded out – spread out –The (c2) - upon which the (m) matter (christ) is built upon
This is why she is the sustainer of the ALL – the good and the bad

Angels, archon, and man are created spirit beings – whose real home is heaven not 3D physical eartth

[Dave]

Oct 8, 2023 12:57:02 GMT -5 Dillon said:

We were discussing your forum here and Jill brought up 2Co 4:4 ... What she says is interesting and possibly appropriate

2Co 4:1  Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 
2Co 4:2  But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 
2Co 4:3  But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 
2Co 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 

renounced the hidden things of dishonesty
Has Robert been honest here – NO
He post things he knows not to be true
He misrepresents others – just so he can argue against his own words

not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully;
Robert has no respect for the word of God – bend it – deny it – accuse it of being wrong
Teaches that is is not to be understood as written – you need to ask Ellen White what the real allegory meaning is

the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience
Robert has no conscious – he lies here – constantly misrepresents others and scripture
and it doesn’t bother him at all – in fact he thrives on the conflict

if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
Robert is outside of Judaeo-Christianity – criticizing it from the outside
He likes being the antagonist – disagreeing with anything Judaeo-Christian in favor of his new Ellen White religion / cult

god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
Robert presnts the same scripture over and over and never listens to what that scripture really says
Ellen White has taught him HOW to interpret the word of God
It does not mean what it says – there is an allegory meaning behind everything and only Ellen White understand that allegory

I have often wondered – if Robert is just playing a game – pretending to be dumb – pretending to not understand – being the devils advocate – just for fun
But as you point out – maybe he is just BLINDED to the truth

lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Yes – LIGHT illuminates Darkness – Truth illuminates ignorance of the truth

Christ, who is the image of God,
Robert cannot deny this Biblical truth enough – scream it loudly and proudly God and Christ must be two different gods

Pro 4:19  The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.

Yep – if you are stupid – you are too stupid to realize that you are stupid

1Co 2:14  Now a natural man does not accept the things of the Ruach Elohim, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 

Robert cannot deny the spirit enough – loudly and proudly he denies the spirit

Then Robert complains
Rob" Dave I do not attend my local SDA church currently because of elders who rejects me and my unwelcome presence.

DUH

I have been asked – why do I tolerate Him
2Co 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

[Dave]

Oct 28, 2023 8:04:12 GMT -5 Dave said:

I try to read the truth first in the OT in Hebrew, than align the truth in the NT with the truth in the OT. Most Christian churches do not do this.

I also align the Greek words from cross references, and how they quote the hebrew into Greek.

For example the word "aven" is the word "adikia"
For some reason who did not like me doing this idea?

Checking LXX for H205
'âven
From an unused root perhaps meaning properly to pant (hence to exert oneself, usually in vain; to come to naught); strictly nothingness; also trouble, vanity, wickedness; specifically an idol: - affliction, evil, false, idol, iniquity, mischief, mourners (-ing), naught, sorrow, unjust, unrighteous, vain, vanity, wicked

Num 23:21 H205 aven is translated as G3449 – toil, sadness, travail
Deu 26:14 H205 aven is translated as G3601 – grief, sorrow
Job 5:6 H205 aven is translated as G2873 – a cut, trouble
Job 11:14 H205 aven is translated as G459 - lawless

Checking the HOT+ for G93
ἀδικία - adikia
From G94; (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of charater, life or act): - iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

Gen 6:11 adikia is translated as H2555 – violence / pain
Gen 26:20 adikia is translated as H6229 – quarrel
Psa 5:14 adikia is translated as H905 - separation
Pron 28:16 adikia is translated as H1215 – covetousness

What a joke – Robert is not serious or honest
27 years of Seventh Day Adventist Church – and you have no respect for the word of God
You just play word games to corrupt the scripture for others – Christian

So this is the teaching of Ellen White – play word games - rewrite scripture to support your religious cult
Is this how you anumah the word of God?

And you Ponder why others wont respond to your emails
[/quote]

[Dillon]

Nov 4, 2023 9:33:15 GMT -5 Dillon said:

Dave, YOU INSIST RUWACH = HOLY SPIRIT – and you have for four years
Rob, Nu 16:22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O "El" "singular numerical ONE of Strong Authority," the God "Elohiym" of the spirits "Holy Spirit - Ruwach" of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?

Dave, Yep – your word games only lead to error – why do you teach demonic Holy Spirits
ROB" I don't teach this. The word "ra ruwach" means "a dysfunctional use of the medium" Can not an Opposer use the medium for his own evil purposes?



If the opposer is using the Holy Spirit for his own purposes, who is greater; the opposer or the Holy Spirit?
If the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, who is greater; the opposer or God?

Robert is teaching that his satan is greater than God, or the Holy Spirit!

[Dave]

I'll let this slide for now to make a point to Robert of his persistant false teachings.

He needs to hear and read himself - but it is embarrasing to be exposed
Especially when you have held a false teaching for so long - and taught it to others.

My goal is NOT to embarrase Robert - just educate
So lighten up

[Richard]

Robert is not fooling anyone.

I have met many Roberts in my life. Deep inside he wants to believe, but has come from a community with no substance. All he has been exposed to are words in a book and the erroneous teaching of Ellen White. He is looking for a reason to justify his doubt. Anything that is presented to him as a Judeo-Christian teaching, he must find disrupt for others, prove wrong, and argue against; to justify his own disbelief.

We say there is only one God.
Robert cannot let this be true. He openly argues a polytheistic pantheon of multiple gods acting in consort as a unit.

We say there is no God but God.
Robert cannot let this be true. To his pantheon of creator gods, he adds satan as the god of evil.

We say that Jesus Christ is/was God incarnate.
Robert cannot let this be true. He argues that two different biological gods cannot be in two places at the same time. Christ and God must be two different gods because Jesus prayed to God.

We say believe and confess.
Robert cannot let this be true. Instead, he argues a word that he does not understand. He pretends to seek the true meaning of a Hebrew word, while ignoring the message of scripture.

We say the word of God is absolute.
Robert cannot let this be true. Ellen White teaches a different version and she is superior to scripture in all things.

We teach the spirit and life after death.
Robert cannot let this be true. Denies both and teaches only nothingness.

We say, be humble, learn, and grow.
Robert has evidently took one lesson from this Jeff Brenner guy and now knows more than all the world’s translators. Invented his own translation method that has yet to be proven reliable.

Once caught on an obvious contradiction, or outright fabrication, does he learn and relent?
The answer to that is also obvious. Instead he continues to push his corruption agenda.

I have met many Roberts in my life.
1. Either he is not very bright, and is completely brain washed by a cultish doctrine.
2. Or he is not very bright, and cannot see his own error.
3. He is looking for a reason to justify his doubt. If he can tear down our beliefs his doubts will be justified.

Of these, if a person is unwilling to be open and honest, then they are not ready to receive.

4. He is an active agent for misinformation, working for the wrong side, spreading satanic filth as Christian tradition.

We would excuse Robert from out advanced classes. The only voice you would hear would be Robert’s preventing the class from proceeding and deliberately spoiling it for every else in the class. “Behavior that a reasonable faculty member would view as interfering with normal academic functions.”

Robert complains that people do not return his emails. Maybe he gets one response out of common courtesy, but no conversation. He claims to be frustrated by this and does not understand why. Either he is not very bright, and cannot see his own folly, or he is looking for a reason to justify his own doubt / disbelief. If he can tear down our beliefs his own doubts will be justified.

[Richard]

Not even professional paid experts help you, I have had my fair share of so called Christian counselors and psychiatrists (more than 4) , many kicked me out because I was so controversial with them.
WOW – REALLY – WHAT A SURPRISE
You do not want to listen – you do not want to know – you just resist
Until you are  honest with yourself - you cannot be honest with God
I was told to let you go as well - you do not want to believe - you just want to disrupt
But I called you cantankerous - look up the word 

(google) What Is Antisocial Personality Disorder?
kkjpsych.com › what-is-antisocial-personality-d...
Oct 29, 2020 — Individuals with this disorder can be superficially charming and likeable, yet they tend to be cantankerous, and hostile
Does the shoe fit Robert?

 

Nov 7, 2023 9:49:21 GMT -5 Richard said:

Robert is not fooling anyone.

I have met many Roberts in my life. Deep inside he wants to believe, but has come from a community with no substance. All he has been exposed to are words in a book and the erroneous teaching of Ellen White. He is looking for a reason to justify his doubt. Anything that is presented to him as a Judeo-Christian teaching, he must find disrupt for others, prove wrong, and argue against; to justify his own disbelie

The reason Robert is leaving is because you scare him. He has never met a believer before.
He hasn’t -been able to cause you to doubt – like he does- so he is frustrated!

[Dillon]

Ponder this

Jan 23, 2024 14:24:48 GMT -5 Dave said:

The Great Controversy and God's Love for Humanity
Adventist.org - www.adventist.org › the-great-controversy
The Great Controversy is a spiritual battle, a conflict over God's character and His right to rule the universe.
Either you support Ellen White and her teaching – or you deny her teaching
Either your satan is so powerful that he can – oppose the character of God, His law, and His sovereignty over the universe.
OR
R" Absolutely not, so stop raising this issue, how on earth can a creature oppose a Creator?
You really need to make up your mind

Do you support Ellen White or not?

Adam and Eve
Gen 3:11 Then God said, “Who told you to stop
Gen 3:12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me—

Rob” My wife does not like me spending so much time on the computer talking to you.
I think she is right. We have differences

“Honey, I think you’re spending too much time with scripture.”
When is dedication to studying scripture a bad thing?
How is spending time with scripture a bad thing?

Robert is not studying scripture, he is arguing!
Robert is not studying scripture, he is arguing Ellen White, he is defending Ellen White.

4 years, I remember Dave’s comment, ‘in 4 years Robert could have earned a College Degree in Hebrew translation.’ Instead, Robert just wants to argue Ellen White.

At first, Robert complained that no one will study with him, no one will talk to him, maybe one return email at best, he said.
Now Robert is the one walking away because no one will agree with him.

I shall go back to communion with God on my own
I used to look forward to your comments and helping me commune with God in His studies
now I have to do this all alone

At lease Robert cannot complain anymore.

Both of my parents were Jewish. So what does that make me? I am not a “Bible Thumper” like you guys, but we all carry that basic hint of what is right. Is it from our parents or God? Dave does know this, but this is what I’ll add to Dave’s defense. Recently, I was gathered with family. Some of my relatives are very orthodox. I just asked the question, ‘why a prohibition in literature about demons?’ I even asked if they would post an answer to this forum. Their only response was, ‘Dave doesn’t need any help’.