Is God an Alien?

[Dave]

Virginia - this is directed right at you. You told me as much once.

You are of Mormon background - correct?
Hope you don't mind me bringing this up. I claim to be a Gnostic. Pat was apart of a 4 Square Church. Richard was a good catholic boy. - And - if you haven't noticed, Ali is Quran oriented. What a great group for discussion.

Teach us - how you see the State of current Alien affairs?

Over all - real or not?
What percentage real vrs bull?
What percentage related to the religious story?
If any relation to the religious - how related.

And to my own answer - Yes God is an Alien by definition. Not born of earth - therefore

[Dillon]

I have tied to summarize what I found abut the teaching of Mormonism and their Alien god. But after several attempts, I gave up - instead I offer the following youtube video:

What Mormons Really Believe - www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HSlbuli7HM

My first issue with The Church of later Day Saints is that Joseph Smith claimed to see God and Jesus in a vision, which began his ministry. This is in direct conflict with the OT:

Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live. (ASV)
Exo 33:20 He saith also, `Thou art unable to see My face, for man doth not see Me, and live;' (YLT)

The second issue with LDS is that Joseph Smith was told by God that this new church is the “only true church on earth.” Again in direct conflict with the words of Jesus who said:

Mat 16:18 And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. (ASV)
Mat 16:18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it; (YLT)

Issue #3 -The God the Mormons call Elohim can not be the Creator of the whole universe, because Elohim was once a man who became a god. AND this god Elohim is a flesh and blood guy living on another planet.

Issue #4 - AND THIS IS A BIGGIE - Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers and both sons of god. To me this last statement just elevates Lucifer's, The Devil's, Satan's position. Isn't that the end goal of a false teaching?

[Virginia]

The bible is full of references to UFO's. 2 Kings 2:11. Why would God need a chariot to take Elizah upto heaven? If he had all this power he would just lift him up. So does God need a chariot (UFO) to travel around?

[Dave]

Excellent point! This is not the only reference to "Chariots of Fire" as transport vehicles.

2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, Jehovah, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And Jehovah opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.(ASV)
2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayeth, and saith, `Jehovah, open, I pray Thee, his eyes, and he doth see;' and Jehovah openeth the eyes of the young man, and he seeth, and lo, the hill is full of horses and chariots of fire, round about Elisha. (YLT)

Psa 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands upon thousands; The Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the sanctuary.(ASV)
Psa 68:17 The chariots of God are myriads, thousands of changes, The Lord is among them, in Sinai, in the sanctuary. (YLT)

A point that I want to make here is about this word ANGEL. The word angel is not in the Hebrew Bible. Angel is a Greek word. In the OT the reference is always to the MESSENGERS of God. So, do not get confused here.

Another point I'll make about UFOs in the OT is about the the OTs reference to the final battle -Armageddon if you will - here on earth. Just where does God gather His army from?

... Jehovah of hosts is mustering the host for the battle.
Isa 13:5 They come from a far country, from the uttermost part of heaven, even Jehovah, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. (ASV)

... Jehovah of Hosts inspecting a host of battle!
Isa 13:5 They are coming in from a land afar off, From the end of the heavens, Jehovah and the instruments of His indignation, To destroy all the land. (YLT)

Where? - From the end of the heavens - from the uttermost part of heaven - as I say in my book, "Sure sounds farther away than Kansas.

However, one cannot draw the conclusion that Angels require vehicles from either of these passages. That misses out on the totality of the scriptural message about God's messengers (Angels).

In Numbers 22:22-35 The angel is invisible and without vehicle. Angels appeared to Abraham, Jacob, Ezechiel, Elisha, David, Solomon, Mary, Joseph, and the parents of John the Babtist in dreams (just to name a few) again invisible without vehicles. These are interdimensional beings. Spirit form.

The picture just keeps getting bigger and bigger and more intertwined.

[Richard]

Dave

I don't disagree with your post. There are at least two different "messenger" groups. Those that use 'chariots of fire' and those that don't. If fact, if there are 7 heavens beyond our 3D reality; I would expect there to be upward to 7 different groups. I group calling each individual heaven / dimension home.

I think the discussion here should address whether our certainty which groups are representing which side of the argument - for or against - pro God or anti-God - demon or angel.

Is every vehicle using messenger from the dark side and every non-vehicle using messenger from the good side? I think this answer has to be NO.

Remember our discussions a few years ago about the Dead Sea Scrolls. This group of God fearing Jews were a UFO contact group. These scrolls talk about their angelic messengers using flying craft.

The argument from your book is that these vehicle using messengers will eventually turn out to be proven agents of darkness. Do you mean this as an absolute blanket statement? Are all vehicle using messenger agents of darkness? If they are? Then are the examples from within the OT also agents of darkness posing as messengers of light?

[Divine]

This topic is very interesting.

[Dave]

There is great danger grouping anyone - or anything - into one category.

From the book I make this point: Gen 3:15 and Gen 6:4 clearly establish an opposition force against humanity. Agents of darkness. The Angels (yes Richard they should be more correctly referred to as messengers) that fathered the Watchers / Archons were spirit beings in human form. They did not require vehicles. However, their 1/2 breed offspring do require vehicles - they are 1/2 human and creatures of flesh. The UFO we see above our atmosphere, or on the moon, occupy this same 3D reality as we do.

Matt 8:28-34 tells the story of Jesus casting demons out of a possessed human and into a herd of pigs. These demons were not of flesh. They were spirit beings.

So, what about messengers using 'chariots of fire' in the OT? Am I saying that these messengers were from the opposition? Well - my answer here would be a definite maybe. WOW, how is that for taking a stand!

This is my reasoning. God can use whatever means He chooses to implement his plan here on earth. God used the attacks upon Job to make a point. Or as many 'feel good chirstians' would rather say it - God allowed the attacks upon Job to make a point.

Are all 'chariot of fire' riders always from the opposition? I cannot say. Look through the Hubble Telescope - reality is a very big place indeed. How many planets are there in our galaxy alone? Does anyone have a clue what stories are being played out on the other side of our galaxy? How many galaxies are there? How big is the big picture?

All I can say is that Isaiah 13:5 tells us that God pulls His army together from the uttermost reaches of the universe.

What Gnostic Scripture does say (Enoch and Gnostic Gospels) about these 1/2 breed creatures is that they are charged to keep humanity stuck in a false message, which is anything that keeps humanity from growing up spiritually.

Another point I will make here deals with the vocabulary of semantic understanding. Here is a perfect example: during the death matches by gladiators in Rome. It was customary for the winning gladiator to look up at Ceaser for the 'thumbs up' or 'thumbs down' signal to end the match. Ask anyone today what the 'thumbs up' or 'thumbs down' gesture means and absolutely everyone today will say - 'thumbs up' = life - and - 'thumbs down' = death. However, 1800 yrs ago in Rome they meant exactly the opposite! 'thumbs down' meant cast down you sword and let the opponent live; while 'thumbs up' meant raise your sword and kill your opponent.

So, when Elisha was taken up in a 'chariot of fire' what did this statement originally mean? Today UFO do not use rocket engines to blast off! Would people of Elisha's day understand spiritual ascension? What if they would have said a beam of light - blaze of glory - flash of transcendental out of body experience?

So, does the term 'chariots of fire' absolutely mean a rocket powered spacecraft? Maybe - maybe not.

What if ancient man say and wrote about an encounter with an USO? Would they have called it a submarine? Most likely they would have called it a boat beneath the water and today we could all assume it was a sunken ship.

So, as always, we need to be open to the semantics of misunderstanding. Even the word HELL meant something totally different in 1611 England than we think it means in 21st century America.