Possession

[Dave]

Possession - Is the enemy real, or not?

It has come to my attention that some of the people I know, God fearing people, deny that satanic and/or demonic possession is possible today.
To me, this denial is not scriptural and is evidence of the subtleness of the dark forces around us.

The Quran says, ‘People say, they would believe if God would just show us a sign, but to those of us that already believe, we see the signs all around us.’ (Al-Baqara 2:118- my paraphrase)

If God peaked out from behind a cloud and said, “Here I am.” The choice would be too obvious – likewise – If the Devil made himself known, the choice would also become obvious. So the devil is the master at deception and disguise.

Obvious, Hollywood style, demonic possession was used a tool during the ministry of Christ to demonstrate Christ’s position and power. That same level of obvious possession would only serve as a witness to the reality of the devil.

In the Book of acts, we are told about Ananias and Sapphira. Who sold some property and then lied about their profit.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thy heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, …

Who filled the heart of Ananias? Satan!

In 2nd Timothy we are told to witness to the lost – why ?

2 Timothy 2:25 (that) … they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him unto his will.

Hearts filled by Satan. Being taken captive by Satan (devil) – what does possession mean?

[Dave]

Subtle possessions

Today, in the era of not acknowledging the spiritual realm, completely downplaying the possibility of the devil, or demons, to be suggestive in our mental and/or emotional state, Satan has successfully changed the entire concept of demons, demon worship, and witchcraft, into an entertainment business – i.e. Harry Potter or the zombie movie of the week.

Today, we worship science. Serial killers are no longer seen as agents of evil, but psychiatrically diagnosed psychopaths or sociopaths. Who suffer from some sort of psychosis (illness of the soul). Even Adolf Hitler has become exempt from collusion with the devil. He was just a "neurotic psychopath." (Langer, Walter C., 1972, The Mind of Adolf Hitler: The Secret Wartime Report. p. 126, Basic Books, New York, N.Y.)

Multiple Personality Disorder

Now called dissociative identity disorder requires for a diagnosis – “that an adult be recurrently controlled by two or more discrete identities or personality states.” When the alter personality is question under hypnosis, 29% are reported to identify themselves as demons, but psychiatrists see this as a mental disease called demonomania or demonopathy, a monomania in which the patient believes that he or she is possessed by one or more demons. (Dr Haraldur Erlendsson, 2003, Multiple Personality Disorder - Demons and Angels or Archetypal aspects of the inner self, The Royal College of Psychiatrists, London, UK)

Schizophrenia

Schizophrenia occurs in 1 percent of the general population. People with the disorder may hear voices other people don't hear. They may believe other people are reading their minds, controlling their thoughts, or plotting to harm them. This can terrify people with the illness and make them withdrawn or extremely agitated.

People with schizophrenia may not make sense when they talk. They may sit for hours without moving or talking. Sometimes people with schizophrenia seem perfectly fine until they talk about what they are really thinking.

Genetic link - it occurs in 10 percent of people who have a first-degree relative with the disorder. (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/schizophrenia/index.shtml)

OH, there you have it. It has nothing to do with the spiritual warfare we find ourselves in, instead, it is just a genetically caused medical problem. Yet, 90% of those effected have no genetic history!

If anyone wants to argue that these types of medical brain disorders, genetic or not, have nothing to do with the spiritual warfare we face – then I ask:

In Mark 9:14-29, Jesus was asked to heal a boy who had suffered from Epilepsy since his birth.

Mar 9:25 And … Jesus … rebuked the unclean spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I command thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

Did Jesus cast out a demon or heal a medical condition?

[Dave]

What does possession mean?

Clinical definition - (of a demon or spirit, esp. an evil one) have power over (someone) and be manifested through their speech or actions.

I have also been told that God does not possess.

Man is this ever an argument of vocabulary and semantics. The devil can fill your heart or take you captive and an evil spirit live within your body – this is possession. However, the entire objective of being “Born Again” is to have the Holy Spirit indwelling within us, Christ living within us – but this is not possession? The Roman will say the difference is that we ask Christ to come within us, we desire it; but, if a demonically possessed person asked for it, desired it, in exchange for fame or wealth – that would still be possession. Curious?

In the Rituale Romanum, there are four typical characteristics of possession. Two of which are:

Speaking in tongues or languages that the victim cannot know.

Revelation of knowledge, distant or hidden, that the victim cannot know.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Peter says:
Acts 1:16 … which the Holy Spirit spake before by the mouth of David concerning Judas …

Acts 2:16 but this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel: 17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: 18 Yea and on My servants and on My handmaidens in those days Will I pour forth of My Spirit; and they shall prophesy.

Speaking in tongues and revealing knowledge the host cannot possibly know!

Examples of a spirit entering a host:

John 14:17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them (at the Pentecost) 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken wherein they were gathered together; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles that were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit:

Acts 8:16 for as yet it was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them that heard the word.

Old Testament examples:

Who hardened Pharos heart? –
Exo 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart,
Exo 9:12 And Jehovah hardened the heart of Pharaoh
Exo 10:1 And Jehovah said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart,
Exo 10:20 But Jehovah hardened Pharaoh's heart,
Exo 10:27 But Jehovah hardened Pharaoh's heart,
Exo 11:10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: and Jehovah hardened Pharaoh's heart,
Exo 14:4 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart,
Exo 14:8 And Jehovah hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt,

1 Samuel 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his
brethren: and the Spirit of Jehovah came mightily upon David from that day forward.

Judges 3:10 And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he judged Israel, and went out to war.

Judges 14:6 "And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done."

Judges 14:19 And the Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil, and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle. And his anger was kindled, and he went up to his father's house.
Note that in each case where the Holy Spirit was working it is said He "came upon" the person whom God would use. The exception The Spirit of God came upon him as a boy when he was anointed king and never departed.

1 Samuel 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. …

Yes, growing up within Roman mythology if feels awkward to say God possesses. However, if possession means that you are influenced within, by a spirit not your own; then is not the indwelling of the Holy Spirit the exact same type of experience?

We should stop arguing about English words that limit our ability to see the reality of the spiritual realm all around us and our closeness to it.

[Dillon]

I have always thought that the reason Christendom gathered together all the information they could about the dark side and hid it away is because they didn't trust us to not be attracted to it and then by it.

If people really had a hand book for demons, don't you think they would use it?

What do you think about all the Hollywood stars that admit they have made a deal with the devil. Snoop Dog, Beyonce and her husband?

[Dillon]

Fantasia

Disney's 1940 harmless movie for children. Indoctrinate they while they are young.

youtu.be/gMmfaaiWMEs

[Richard]

Does God possess?

Interesting idea. I see how you say it is a vocabulary dilemma. God can use anyone He chooses to say or do anything He chooses. I agree with that 100%.

When Angela was in Mexico with Habitat for Humanity, she told us of that she sat on the steps of the house witnessing to a lady in Spanish. Although she knows some Spanish, this was the first and only time she has ever been able to have a conversation in Spanish. For 2 - 3 hrs she says.

She certainly felt used by the Lord. Speaking in tongues to serve God's purpose.

You make me think. How much do we need to be altered to be used by a spirit? She was not transformed into a Saint that glowed wrapped in white robes, but felt used nonetheless.

So, how much does an evil spirit have to affect a person, before we consider it possession? Is there a difference between demonic possession and just demonic suggestion? A whisper in your ear, or heart, at the right moment could be just as effective to cause a series of negative consequences that serve evil.

You mentioned Hitler. Evil didn't have to use him 24/7. A suggestion here, an idea there, a moment or two to sign an order and the evil spread throughout his staff.

We see so many of our youth that just seem to be angry, angry at the world, discontent, hopeless, and resentful. You sure can see the devil spoiling their minds.

Consider this. Back in the days of Moses and evil spirit would have to visit 1000 people to effect 10,000. Today all the evil has to work in is one Hollywood movie producer or Rock Star to effect 10s of million if not more suggestive minds.

[Dave]

Oct 25, 2013 1:54:15 GMT -5 Richard said:

So, how much does an evil spirit have to affect a person, before we consider it possession? Is there a difference between demonic possession and just demonic suggestion? A whisper in your ear, or heart, at the right moment could be just as effective to cause a series of negative consequences that serve evil.

Isn't the answer dependent how you define possession?

Does the hate within our hearts - allow the devil to find a opening to suggest more evil within us?

or

Does the devil - find other openings within us then stirs the discontent within us?

[Stella]

Interesting conversation

How about this one.

If some one is charismaticly preaching the Lord's message they are said to be full of the Lord or Holy Spirit.

Homosexuality is a sin!

Promoting homosexuality is a sin. Teaching that homosexuality to our children as a acceptable life style is a sin. So, would a gay rights activist that is charismaticly promoting the life style full of the devil or evil spirits?

[Dillon]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if most of the "christian" preachers in the world are not possessed by evil spirits. This is why the church has broken into so may different and different sounding groups.