Post by Dave on Jun 26, 2013 17:11:25 GMT -5
The Olivet Discourse
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivet_Discourse
The Olivet discourse or Olivet prophecy is a biblical passage found in the Synoptic Gospels of Mark 13, Matthew 24, Luke 21. It is known as the "Little Apocalypse" because it includes Jesus' descriptions of the end times, the use of apocalyptic language, and Jesus' warning to his followers that they will suffer tribulation and persecution before the ultimate triumph of the Kingdom of God. The Olivet discourse is the last of the Five Discourses of Matthew and occurs just prior to the narrative of Jesus' passion beginning with the Anointing of Jesus. In the narrative is a discourse or sermon given by Jesus on the Mount of Olives, hence the name.
The biggest problem with this passage, as with all of scripture, is discerning the various layers of multiple meanings written into each verse. Not only is there a literal meaning, but the metaphoric meaning, compounded as to the meanings that span time itself.
The Gospel of Mark:
Mark 13:2 And Jesus said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left here one stone upon another, which shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat on the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are all about to be accomplished?
Multiple relevance - The Temple will be torn down. This is taken to mean the living temple of the body of Christ as he died upon the cross. Roman soldiers physically tore the temple down in 70 A. Although this ended the Jewish ritual sacrifice, and all theologians agree that Rome satisfied this verse; but to be argumentative, I ask you – was there - not be left here one stone upon another, which shall not be thrown down. Does not the West Wall still remain? Does not the plaza floor still remain? Yet, there are many who believe that the physical Temple building must be rebuilt before the Lord comes again.
Mark 13:5 And Jesus began to say unto them, Take heed that no man lead you astray. 6 Many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and shall lead many astray.
Relevant to today - Although there were many different leaders and factions within early Christianity, none of them claimed to be Christ until recent times. However, history has seen many false prophets.
Mark 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars, be not troubled: these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet. 8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be earthquakes in divers places; there shall be famines: these things are the beginning of travail.
Relevant to today – The implications here are global. Not necessarily specific to the events, but as to the reporting of those events into common knowledge.
Mark 13:9 But take ye heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in synagogues shall ye be beaten; and before governors and kings shall ye stand for my sake, for a testimony unto them.
Multiple relevance – Christians were persecuted after the crucifixion to a scale we have not yet seen repeated. Yet, the trend in Christian persecution is on the rise.
Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be preached unto all the nations.
Relevant to today – The implications here are global
Mark 13:11 And when they lead you to judgment, and deliver you up, be not anxious beforehand what ye shall speak: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child; and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Multiple relevance – We know of this happening during the Roman slaughter of Jews and Christians. Today, in our society being a Christian is becoming less and less attractive. The 10 Commandment are not permitted to be displayed in public forums. Children can no longer pray in school. The rete of social change is unprecedented. Abroad Christian are being targeted with abuses and it is only a matter of time before it comes home to America.
Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
Relevant to today – The inclusion of ALL MEN makes this a global implication.
Mar 13:14 But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: 15 and let him that is on the housetop not go down, nor enter in, to take anything out his house: 16 and let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak. 17 But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that it be not in the winter. 19 For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be.
Multiple relevance – Many believe that Jesus is telling the Christians to leave town prior to the Roman onslaught of 70 AD. As for - For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation - Josephus claims that 1,100,000 people were killed during the siege itself, and many argue this o be a very conservative estimate. Not to mention the number of Christians persecuted at the hands of Rome over the next 30 years. No greater genocide has been conducted over such a large scale until the Rome returns to Palestine with the Crusades, then Hitler and the Holocaust. Again, Islam is bringing this same scale of hatred against the Jew and Christian today – just Ponder what tomorrow will bring.
Mark 13:20 And except the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh would have been saved; but for the elect's sake, whom he chose, he shortened the days. 21 And then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ; or, Lo, there; believe it not: 22 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, the elect.
Relevant to today – The shortening of days has not happened yet – that’s obvious – and as previously stated false Christs have only been a modern invention. In fact all the rest of this passage deals with what we call the end-times scenario.
Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have told you all things beforehand. 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.
The fourth trumpet and Wormwood – meteor impacts
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
The Second Coming
Mark 13:27 And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Mid-tribulation Rapture
Mark 13:28 Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh;
Now mark brings up the fig tree – after - ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not
Mark 13:29 even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors. 30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished.
Now we have the generation – but is it 40yrs, 90-100yrs, or 120yrs – or none of the above?
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Relevance? – It is useless to even try to predict the timing of these events with calendar dates – 1948, 2012, 2018, or any other date is just wasted speculation. This is also why I don’t buy into the Planet-7X, Comet ISON, or planet Nibiru phenomenon. Not to say that this year’s Comet ISON will have ZERO impact to planet earth, but it will not be the sign as presented by Christ, just as 2012 was in itself, not the end.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivet_Discourse
The Olivet discourse or Olivet prophecy is a biblical passage found in the Synoptic Gospels of Mark 13, Matthew 24, Luke 21. It is known as the "Little Apocalypse" because it includes Jesus' descriptions of the end times, the use of apocalyptic language, and Jesus' warning to his followers that they will suffer tribulation and persecution before the ultimate triumph of the Kingdom of God. The Olivet discourse is the last of the Five Discourses of Matthew and occurs just prior to the narrative of Jesus' passion beginning with the Anointing of Jesus. In the narrative is a discourse or sermon given by Jesus on the Mount of Olives, hence the name.
The biggest problem with this passage, as with all of scripture, is discerning the various layers of multiple meanings written into each verse. Not only is there a literal meaning, but the metaphoric meaning, compounded as to the meanings that span time itself.
The Gospel of Mark:
Mark 13:2 And Jesus said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left here one stone upon another, which shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat on the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are all about to be accomplished?
Multiple relevance - The Temple will be torn down. This is taken to mean the living temple of the body of Christ as he died upon the cross. Roman soldiers physically tore the temple down in 70 A. Although this ended the Jewish ritual sacrifice, and all theologians agree that Rome satisfied this verse; but to be argumentative, I ask you – was there - not be left here one stone upon another, which shall not be thrown down. Does not the West Wall still remain? Does not the plaza floor still remain? Yet, there are many who believe that the physical Temple building must be rebuilt before the Lord comes again.
Mark 13:5 And Jesus began to say unto them, Take heed that no man lead you astray. 6 Many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and shall lead many astray.
Relevant to today - Although there were many different leaders and factions within early Christianity, none of them claimed to be Christ until recent times. However, history has seen many false prophets.
Mark 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars, be not troubled: these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet. 8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be earthquakes in divers places; there shall be famines: these things are the beginning of travail.
Relevant to today – The implications here are global. Not necessarily specific to the events, but as to the reporting of those events into common knowledge.
Mark 13:9 But take ye heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in synagogues shall ye be beaten; and before governors and kings shall ye stand for my sake, for a testimony unto them.
Multiple relevance – Christians were persecuted after the crucifixion to a scale we have not yet seen repeated. Yet, the trend in Christian persecution is on the rise.
Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be preached unto all the nations.
Relevant to today – The implications here are global
Mark 13:11 And when they lead you to judgment, and deliver you up, be not anxious beforehand what ye shall speak: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child; and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Multiple relevance – We know of this happening during the Roman slaughter of Jews and Christians. Today, in our society being a Christian is becoming less and less attractive. The 10 Commandment are not permitted to be displayed in public forums. Children can no longer pray in school. The rete of social change is unprecedented. Abroad Christian are being targeted with abuses and it is only a matter of time before it comes home to America.
Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
Relevant to today – The inclusion of ALL MEN makes this a global implication.
Mar 13:14 But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: 15 and let him that is on the housetop not go down, nor enter in, to take anything out his house: 16 and let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak. 17 But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that it be not in the winter. 19 For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be.
Multiple relevance – Many believe that Jesus is telling the Christians to leave town prior to the Roman onslaught of 70 AD. As for - For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation - Josephus claims that 1,100,000 people were killed during the siege itself, and many argue this o be a very conservative estimate. Not to mention the number of Christians persecuted at the hands of Rome over the next 30 years. No greater genocide has been conducted over such a large scale until the Rome returns to Palestine with the Crusades, then Hitler and the Holocaust. Again, Islam is bringing this same scale of hatred against the Jew and Christian today – just Ponder what tomorrow will bring.
Mark 13:20 And except the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh would have been saved; but for the elect's sake, whom he chose, he shortened the days. 21 And then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ; or, Lo, there; believe it not: 22 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, the elect.
Relevant to today – The shortening of days has not happened yet – that’s obvious – and as previously stated false Christs have only been a modern invention. In fact all the rest of this passage deals with what we call the end-times scenario.
Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have told you all things beforehand. 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.
The fourth trumpet and Wormwood – meteor impacts
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
The Second Coming
Mark 13:27 And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Mid-tribulation Rapture
Mark 13:28 Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh;
Now mark brings up the fig tree – after - ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not
Mark 13:29 even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors. 30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished.
Now we have the generation – but is it 40yrs, 90-100yrs, or 120yrs – or none of the above?
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
Relevance? – It is useless to even try to predict the timing of these events with calendar dates – 1948, 2012, 2018, or any other date is just wasted speculation. This is also why I don’t buy into the Planet-7X, Comet ISON, or planet Nibiru phenomenon. Not to say that this year’s Comet ISON will have ZERO impact to planet earth, but it will not be the sign as presented by Christ, just as 2012 was in itself, not the end.
