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Post by Virginia on Mar 3, 2013 14:17:07 GMT -5
I watched a tv show this morning about a messiah before Jesus. That the angel Gabriel told Simon he was the messiah and that he would be crusified on the cross. Then later Jesus followed the same script and was crucified and 3 days later assended. Could this be true?
I also saw several months ago that Noah's flood happened before where a farmer saved his livestock by putting them in a boat to save them. Then here comes Noah's ark but the story is embelished to include exodic animals like lions, tigers, elephants and not just sheep and goats.
It is too bad we do not get a real story.
Also that Jesus traveled by boat across the sea to a place called Gadara which scholers now think was in Spain. The Book of Morman says Jesus traveled to the Americas to preech God's word and I really did not believe it but if Jesus went to Spain could he have traveled to the Americas also?
It is a shame that people left out parts of the story that they did not like. Also that Jesus and Mary Magdelline had a son named John. (this I could believe) I already knew about a daughter named Sara.
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Post by Dave on Mar 4, 2013 21:10:38 GMT -5
I watched a tv show this morning about a messiah before Jesus. That the angel Gabriel told Simon he was the messiah and that he would be crusified on the cross. Then later Jesus followed the same script and was crucified and 3 days later assended. Could this be true? Wow Virginia there is a lot here. That is OK – make me think. Messiah before Jesus of Nazareth? This question has a complex yes and no answer! There is a specific train of thought that will argue that everything in the Bible has already happened. Ecclesiastes 3:15 What is happening now has happened before, and what will happen in the future has happened before, because God makes the same things happen over and over again. (New Living Translation) Ecclesiastes 3:15 Whatever happens or can happen has already happened before. God makes the same thing happen again and again. (Good News Translation) In scripture – there is reference to at least 7 or 8 ages, anions, or cycles of time 1 The beginning to the creation of Adam 2 Adam to the Flood 3 The Flood to Jesus 4 Jesus till the 2nd Coming 5 Christ’s kingdom on Earth 6 Satan is set loose from the abyss 7 Great White Throne Judgment Within these cycles of time, there is a consistent theme of a messiah and salvation. Noah can be seen as the messiah that saved humanity from the flood Moses can be seen as the messiah that saved the Jews from the Egyptians These stories of a messiah, or one man saving humanity, are played out over and over so that when it really happened (32AD) no one can say they were not prepared or warned. Between the flood and Jesus there were at least 5 Jesus type figures known to humanity. Horus, Mithras, Attis, Krishnan, and Dionysius that all claimed attributes of the Christ. Does all this information diminish Christ? Or help identify and clarify his position and purpose? One of the easiest way to tell is the fact that all these stories end with Christ, because all these stories are about Christ - as in - preparing humanity for the role of the true messiah. |
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Post by Dave on Mar 4, 2013 21:17:12 GMT -5
I watched a tv show this morning about a messiah before Jesus. That the angel Gabriel told Simon he was the messiah and that he would be crusified on the cross[/b]. Then later Jesus followed the same script and was crucified and 3 days later assended. Could this be true? This idea id from a tablet, known as "Gabriel's Revelation" or "The Jeselsohn Stone,"which was found near the Dead Sea some time around the year 2000. “The controversy arose after Prof. Israel Knohl, a Hebrew University scholar of Talmudic and Biblical languages, translated the tablet, which is written in the form of an end-of-the-world prediction by the angel Gabriel. What may make the tablet unique is its 80th line, which begins with the words "In three days," and includes some form of the verb "to live." Knohl, who was not involved in the first research on the artifact, claims that it refers to a historic first-century Jewish rebel named Simon who was killed by the Romans in 4 B.C., and should read "In three days, you shall live. I Gabriel command you." If so, Jesus-era Judaism had begun to explore the idea of the three-day resurrection before Jesus was born. As Knohl told a conference of Biblical experts on Tuesday in Jerusalem, "Earlier scholars say Judaism was unfamiliar with the concept of a Messiah who suffered, died and rose, but this inscription changes that." He adds: "Gabriel is speaking to someone and says: 'By three days, you'll come back to life.'" Still, some scholars at the conference privately said that Knohl, in his zeal to make a biblical breakthrough, was reading too much into the vague and practically illegible lines of the tablet.” www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1821076,00.html Gabriel’s Revelation – is important because it demonstrates that some of the – “Jesus-era Judaism had begun to explore the idea of the three-day resurrection before Jesus was born.” The opinions of Porf. Israel Knohl have not been supported by other scholars. Professor Knohl “CLAIMS” a few things, but none of his claims have been supported by other evidence or by other scholars. Professor Knohl goes on to say, “, "Earlier scholars say Judaism was unfamiliar with the concept of a Messiah who suffered, died and rose, ….” Really? The Jewish Torah and The Christian OT are complete with 300-400 prophesies that say just that! If the original author was speaking about Simon Peter, he did become the corner stone of the Church, and he was crucified upon a cross. |
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Post by Dave on Mar 4, 2013 21:22:28 GMT -5
I also saw several months ago that Noah's flood happened before where a farmer saved his livestock by putting them in a boat to save them. Then here comes Noah's ark but the story is embelished to include exodic animals like lions, tigers, elephants and not just sheep and goats. It is too bad we do not get a real story. “ The Epic of Gilgamesh is, perhaps, the oldest written story on Earth. It comes to us from Ancient Sumeria, and was originally written on 12 clay tablets in cunieform script. It is about the adventures of the historical King of Uruk (somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE).” www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/ You are referring to the Adventures of Gilgamesh, who survived a local flood of the Euphrates valley by building a raft. In this story there is never a reference to a global flood. Is this just a tale of a local event? Is this a local version of Noah’s story? Or, as so many people do, primarily because of the age of the text, is this the real story that was later copied by the Jews as the Noah story? The absolutely only argument that supports this notion is the age of the text. Most all of the Sumerian Cuneiform tablets are much older than the Jewish Torah. Only a moron can make this fact “Proof” that these stories pre-date scripture’s version. The Sumerians wrote on clay tablets that were then baked and preserved – and remain today. Jewish scripture was written on animal skins that had a limited life span. That had to be recopied into new animal skins from time to time. Once freed from Egypt the Jews began to use paper – which also has a limited life span – and again must be re-copied from time to time. To say that the Gilgamesh story was written first is just not supported by the facts. It is a guess, because we no longer have animal skin or paper Jewish text in existence from any farther back than say 200BC. It is too bad we do not get a real story. Maybe we do have the real story – we are just busy trying our best not to believe it. |
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Post by Dave on Mar 4, 2013 21:26:05 GMT -5
Also that Jesus traveled by boat across the sea to a place called Gadara which scholers now think was in Spain. The Book of Morman says Jesus traveled to the Americas to preech God's word and I really did not believe it but if Jesus went to Spain could he have traveled to the Americas also? Jesus did not go to Spain, or America (at least not as Joseph Smith described it) The Gándara (also known as the Soba River) is a river in Green Spain, at the north of the country. So you are saying that Jesus traveled from Israel to the North of Spain and back. A trip that would have taken the better part of a year, but yet the only evidence of it is by doing some word play with one noun from Luke 8:26-39. No one that went with him says anything. No one he meets along the way says anything. Did Jesus Go to Gerasa or Gadara? by Caleb Colley, M.L.A. www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=6&article=1434 Matthew recorded that Jesus commanded demons to come out of two men (8:29). This account is recorded in all three of the synoptic gospel accounts, but with two different renderings of the name of the place where the miracles occurred. The Greek word commonly accepted in Mark 5:1 and Luke 8:26 as the basis for the name of the people who inhabited the place where Jesus and the disciples went is rendered Gerasenes in English (Metzger, 1975, pp. 84,145). The Greek word in Matthew 8:28, however, reveals that Jesus went to the country of the Gadarenes (p. 23). Were the writers of the synoptic gospel accounts confused about where Jesus was when He healed the men? Albert Barnes explained the difference between Gadara and Gerasa: Gadara was a city not far from the Lake Gennesareth, one of the ten cities that were called Decapolis. Gergesa [probably a variation of “Gerasa”—CC] was a city about 12 miles to the south-east of Gadara, and about 20 miles to the east of the Jordan. There is no contradiction, therefore, in the evangelists. He came into the region in which the two cities were situated, and one evangelist mentioned one, and the other another. It shows that the writers had not agreed to impose on the world; for if they had, they would have mentioned the same city; and it shows, also, they were familiar with the country. No men would have written in this manner but those who were acquainted with the facts (1949, p. 91). Matthew, Mark, and Luke were writing of the same general area. The Roman city Gerasa was a famous city that would have been familiar to a Gentile audience, but Gadara, as the capital city of the Roman province of Perea, was the chief of the ten cities in Decapolis (Lenski, 1946, p. 205; Coffman, 1975, p. 85; Youngblood, 1995, p. 468), so even those who lived in Gerasa could have been called Gadarenes. The stamp of a ship on Gadarene coins suggests that the region called Gadara probably extended to Galilee (McGarvey, n.d., p. 344; McClintock and Strong, 1969, 3: 706). The New Testament writers chose to refer to the area in different ways. It is also a possibility that in the handing down of New Testament manuscripts over many years, slightly different readings of the same word have developed. Some have suggested that the words “Gergesenes” and “Gerasenes” are not words referring to people from a city other than Gadara, but merely different variations of the word “Gadarenes” (Youngblood, p. 468; McGarvey, p. 344). It is clear that Matthew, Mark, and Luke did not contradict each other—in fact, they complemented each other. The writers were not confused about Palestinian geography. In this instance, each writer intended to draw attention to an area close to the Sea of Galilee. The precise place where the miracle occurred is not as essential to our understanding of the narrative as is the realization that Christ has control over the spiritual realm (Lenski, 1946, p. 205). REFERENCES Barnes, Albert (1949), Notes on the New Testament: Matthew and Mark (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker). Coffman, James Burton (1975), Commentary on Mark (Abilene, TX: ACU Press). Lenski, Robert C.H. (1946), The Interpretation of St. Mark’s Gospel (Minneapolis, MN: Augsburg). Metzger, Bruce M. (1975 corrected edition), A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament (New York, NY: United Bible Societies). McClintock, John and James Strong (1969 reprint), Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker). McGarvey, J.W. (no date), The Fourfold Gospel (Cincinnati, OH: Standard). Youngblood, Ronald F., ed. (1995), New Illustrated Bible Dictionary (Nashville, TN: Nelson). |
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Post by Dave on Mar 4, 2013 21:31:02 GMT -5
It is a shame that people left out parts of the story that they did not like. Also that Jesus and Mary Magdelline had a son named John. (this I could believe) I already knew about a daughter named Sara. Read carefully this response by ElfLord to the question, “Was Jesus married?” “I don't think there is really anything to consider about marriage or children for Christ, as such. Joh 19:25-27 (25) Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. (26) When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! (27) Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. Three Marys, including the one said to be his wife. In the Jewish faith a wife would not be ignored as Jesus did Mary Magdalene. Her importance to Jesus appears to be something less than his mother. And his mother would be less important than his wife in rank and responsibility. Mar 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; Dozens more similar quotes from Jesus and his followers mirror how important a wife is in God's eyes. Surely we don't think Jesus would brush his wife's welfare aside at his own death.” Read more: ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=cc&action=display&thread=143&page=2#ixzz2MbjEU8JP As for me: I have spent many years acquiring or reading anything that contains the words of Christ. I have in my possession over 100 articles, letters, clips, books, and references to Jesus outside of the Roman canon. Yet, through all this literature – the only reference to Jesus being married was penned in 2003, by a guy who writes fiction based novels. Even the Gospel of Mary Magdalene mentioned nothing about a marriage. Gnostic texts – FROM: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_MagdaleneThe Gospel of Philip depicts Mary as Jesus' Koinōnos (κοινωνός), a Greek term indicating a "close friend" or "companion". Mary Magdalene is mentioned as one of three Marys "who always walked with the Lord" and as his companion (Philip 59.6-11). The work also says that Lord loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often (63.34-36). Author John Dickson argues that it was common in early Christianity to kiss a fellow believer by way of greeting, and as such kissing would have no romantic connotations. Kripal writes that "the historical sources are simply too contradictory and simultaneously too silent" to make absolute declarations regarding Jesus' sexuality. Bart Ehrman concludes: "What does the historical evidence tell us about Mary and Jesus?..it tells us nothing at all - certainly nothing to indicate that Jesus and Mary had a sexual relationship of any kind.". The cult of Mary Magdalene During the Counter Reformation and Baroque periods (late 16th and 17th centuries), the cult of Mary Magdalene saw a great, new popularity as the Catholic Church publicized her as an attractive, persuasive model of repentance and reform, in keeping with the goals of the reform Council of Trent (1545–63). Numerous works of art and theater featuring the tearful penitent Magdalene appeared in the 17th century. As part of this new attention to the cult of the Magdalene, in 1600, her relics were placed in a sarcophagus commissioned by Pope Clement VIII, the head being placed in a separate reliquary. The relics and free-standing images were scattered and destroyed at the Revolution. In 1814, the church of La Sainte-Baume, also wrecked during the Revolution, was restored. In 1822, the grotto was consecrated afresh. The head of the saint now lies there and has been the centre of many pilgrimages. This cult made it a point to save and preserve anything that possibly might have belonged to Mary. Except her children – not one mention about her children? Dan Brown’s mistake Ok so this Dan Brown guy, who write fictional novels for a living found some ancient idea and wrote it into his book, but did you know that Dan Brown only borrowed ½ of the legend. FROM: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_MagdaleneA document, possibly written by Ermengaud of Béziers, undated and anonymous and attached to his Treatise against Heretics, says; “Also they [the Cathars] teach in their secret meetings that Mary Magdalene was the wife of Christ. She was the Samaritan woman to whom He said, "Call thy husband." She was the woman taken into adultery, whom Christ set free lest the Jews stone her, and she was with Him in three places, in the temple, at the well, and in the garden. After the Resurrection, He appeared first to her. “ So, evidently Mary Magdalene was married to Jesus - then she committed adultery – only to have Jesus stand up for her and let her off the traditional punishment. Yet, none of Jesus critics, nor the Pharisees and Sadducees, or any Christian critics after the fact fail to mention something so bold as this as proof that Jesus and Mary were anything more, or less, than what they claimed to be. Last word Listen, if you believe anything written by Dan Brown as factual; we should really talk. I have a bridge I would like to sell. Which would you prefer the Golden Gate Bridge or the Brooklyn Bridge. I can make you a good deal for either of them. |
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Stella
Junior Member
Use me O Lord
Posts: 62
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Post by Stella on Mar 5, 2013 16:35:35 GMT -5
Isn't it funny?
The discovery of ancient text or artifact that support the story of Christ, either do not get reported at all, or become small little stories that go unnoticed.
But a work of known fiction somehow becomes mainstream religious thinking!
Dave said, "Maybe we do have the real story – we are just busy trying our best not to believe it."
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Post by Dave on Mar 6, 2013 10:05:57 GMT -5
I appreciate that you agree with me.
You have been here for a while and you have posted some good points. Make me think - ask me your question.
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