Genesis, Zen and Quantum Physics – Jeff Benner

[rob]

Greetings Dave

Third time to edit stupid Ubuntu, this time I kicked off the WIFI mouse and using a wired old fashioned mouse.

"D" Gen 1:31 So God saw everything that He made, and behold it was very good.
R" I agree making the earth experience a renewed make over, with sinning angels on it causing darkness and ra, is indeed a wonderful engineering feat on the part of GOD including the Unviersal constant with 128 decimal points of fine tuning to allow RA and evil to exist, when normally it is NOT allowed to exist. Wonderful design on the part of GOD, yes.

"D"4- if shit happened before Eve – it did not count as sin
R" no need to mock God's torah, a cherub sinned the Ezekiel account says, which the Scroll of Yashua refers readers to, the verse :

Ho 9:13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.

Who is here hareg doer here in the simile of Tyrus? That Israel brings her children to, to have them hareged?

Can you read this verse literally as Dave wishes, or do we have to read the verse poetically using simile approach? Maybe we should ask Jesus who the murderer is. Pity the NT translation does not distinguish between ratach or hareg, two Hebrew word with slight differences in word meanings.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.

Greek anthropoktonos well what do you know, maybe the Greek means "hareg" afterall?

And Greek phoneuo means ratsach? Nice

That's funny I remember Dave saying the archon princes do not hareg humans, but clearly they can and do. Job's children is an example?

D"Gen 1:2 does not say SIN – it says chaos and IGNORANCE
R" you use line upon line, here and there across the OT and NT torah?

Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God,

D"Gen 1:4 a separation – a harvest
R" as if GOD does RA to harvest and use RA?

Ge 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good:

GOD does not declare the darkness is good, for as Einstein says darkness does not exist.

So there is a time for GOD and a time NOT for GOD, and separated time for both. The darkness belongs to SINNING, where creatures choose not to have GOD in their lives.

Only the light is called GOOD.

D"It is the message of the Torah
Deny it all you want – does not change the facts

R" Yes indeed, the torah only calls the light good.

Still to the facts.

The light is formed by God adding His powers and matter to it. But darkness is created from nothing, because darkness is nothing.

D"Why are you so threatened that current modern science is validation scripture at the deep possible

R" If darkness does not exist, and cannot be broken down and studied, why do you elevate darkness so much? Not once does darkness get declared very good or even good.

God simply allows the earth to turn making time for GOD and time NOT for GOD, so the dark powers who love darkness can exist without God in their lives.

D"Why must you deny the presence of God – you call Him infinity – yet limit him and say he cannot be everywhere at once
R" I do not limit the medium or it's omnipresence.

D"A poetry parallel – of God
R" you mean a parallel of the Father?

Explain how the Father can tolerate evil in the father's world?
You explain this by the father being both a doer of tov and ra, than id this is so, why create a medium in the first place?

A medium diminishes the power of the Father, makes powers even virtual.

But this is not required by your theory if the Father does both tov and ra, no need for a medium world of controlling the Father's flow. Clearly the Father can exist with RA in his domain.

Clearly the Father can sin if He wishes to and not follow his own laws of love?

SO explain the reason for a medium than?

( I suspect you can't...)

Let me give you a powerful verse to place your theory under attack...

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Jesus comes are full undiminished power, even the brightness of His coming destroys SIN....

Re 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

SO normally the infinity sets of infinity cannot stand RA or SIN in any form, even the rocks break up at the brightness of His coming.

Only one RA is allowed to exist throughout eternity into the future... only one....

Zec 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
(KJV)

The straight ones will see this RA and cry tears of joy, not use entropy or other natural ra as you claim, but the scars on the divinity set of infinity, the wounds of his hands, the Son of Man, the Son of God, reminds his own redeemed of the costly price for exercising free will.

Shalom

[Dave]

You need to answer question when asked of you

Your reading ability, and your vocabulary is <9th grade high school
Jeff Brenner is a Jew - a translator – not sure what his PhD is – but he works for a nuclear regulatory over-watch group – he is called Rabbi
I am not trying to insult you – you just need to be honest with yourself
At what level are you discussing scripture – and why don’t you understand the experts
--------------------------------

D"Gen 1:2 does not say SIN – it says chaos and IGNORANCE
R" you use line upon line, here and there across the OT and NT torah?
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God,

Yep – an education and the power of ignorance
-------------------------------

D"Why are you so threatened that current modern science is validation scripture at the deep possible
No answer
------------------------------

D"Why must you deny the presence of God – you call Him infinity – yet limit him and say he cannot be everywhere at once
R" I do not limit the medium or it's omnipresence.

Finally you admit it – your ruwach /your medium – is just the presence of God
All your word game are desgned simply to deny the truth
– your ruwach /your medium – is just the presence of God

SO explain the reason for a medium than?
( I suspect you can't...)
– your ruwach /your medium – is just the presence of God

Let me give you a powerful verse to place your theory under attack...
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
WOW – you argue your god is tov only cannot do ra – then you post this

Is there anything consistent with you teaching?
And when will you answer direct questions

[rob]

Greetings Dave

My wired mouse works great, the WIFI mouse was making a bug for UBuntu... great !!!!

D" You need to answer question when asked of you
R" pardon, what question?

---------
D"Gen 1:2 does not say SIN – it says chaos and IGNORANCE
R" you use line upon line, here and there across the OT and NT torah?
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God,

D" Yep – an education and the power of ignorance
R" do you call this a discussion?
You did not falsify my verse, so the verse is true than and your statement is wrong. Darkness belongs to sinning Opposers, and this first Opposer to oppose God is a sinning angel.

Notice this is a creature choosing to oppose God on the only level GOD created where a creature can oppose GOD, with free will to reason. There is nothing else in the torah that makes creatures equal to GOD in terms of power, the right to refuse faith and thus seek God's love flowing in their heart.

Of all the attributes infinity can be, infinity allows creatures free will to oppose His love.

But you made a null statement, and did not falsify my verse, therefore the verse is truth and speaking truth.

Question: did the sinning angel know what he was doing in his sinning? Maybe not at first, but GOD in his love allowed the sinning to continue, under a medium administration, so others could see the sinning reach fruit. Than and only than did GOD banish the sinning angels to earth. This did not take 6 seconds, but took many hundreds of years. Long was God's patience and love.

Even now the infinity empowers the Opposer to live, and continue his sinning. What a God of grace.

D"Why are you so threatened that current modern science is validation scripture at the deep possible
D" No answer

R" Before Darwin science took over the science people , all science people were Creationists, and acknowledged the Creator. Men like Newton, Mendel and Einstein. Even natural selection is a Creation idea to going forth to adapt and change within it's own kind, within the DNA code embedded in the kind.

What science threatens me? Provide an example? By the way science cannot by definition verify or falsify past events.

D"
Finally you admit it – your ruwach /your medium – is just the presence of God
R" How can you make statements about me so easily? You don't like making assumptions about your view? So stop mocking me.

The SHADDAY is a infinity set of infinity and the FATHER is also an infinity set of infinity.

The grand medium is administrated by the Shadday. Such a medium allows sin to exist and RA to exist, where normally it is never allowed to exist.

What is your problem Dave?

D"WOW – you argue your god is tov only cannot do ra – then you post this
R" are you dull? When GOD places his arms of burning love around the entire human population that even lived, how is destroying them an act of RA? It's not.

If I love you perfectly so much that my love destroys you how is that love an act of RA? It's not. It's a problem for you not being able to live under God's love.

The KJV term this the strange act, so they understood, but not Dave.

D"And when will you answer direct questions
Rob" did you ask any?

Sorry.

Shalom

[Dave]

D" You need to answer question when asked of you
R" pardon, what question?
Proof you are not honest enough or serious enough to have an honest discussion
---------

D"Why are you so threatened that current modern science is validation scripture at the deep possible
D" No answer
R" Before Darwin science took over the science people , all science people were Creationists, and acknowledged the Creator.
And now at the deepest level possible science is validating scripture to the point that science is adopting an Intelligent and an intelligent designer

D" Finally you admit it – your ruwach /your medium – is just the presence of God

[rob]

Greetings Dave

D"And now at the deepest level possible science is validating scripture to the point that science is adopting an Intelligent and an intelligent designer

R" Science has always have it's tenets of truth seekers.

Shalom

[Dave]

D"And now at the deepest level possible science is validating scripture to the point that science is adopting an Intelligent and an intelligent designer
R" Science has always have it's tenets of truth seekers.

You need to answer question when asked of you

Your reading ability, and your vocabulary is <9th grade high school
Jeff Brenner and I are discussing sub-atomic physics (quantum physics) + string theory + multidimensioanlism + stellar cosmology + Nebular Theory

There is a YouTube channel called “5 Levels” – YouTube
Explaining a topic – to a Child, a Teen, a College Student, a Grad Student, and an Expert

I am not trying to insult you – you just need to be honest with yourself
At what level are you discussing scripture – and why don’t you understand the experts

You need to answer question when asked of you
Why does it offend you so deeply that modern science validates scripture to the deepest level imaginable

The modern trend – religious leaders and Bible scholars are leaving the faith in record numbers
Why – because the myth of textual infusibility has been exposed
Why – because the myth of church infallibility has been exposed
YET
The other trend in society are a centuries worth of Darwinian scientist now promoting Intelligent Design – suggesting an Intelligent Designer
Why – because Psa 19:23 + Rom 1:19-20 + the Order of creation cannot be denied
Not only does the real world validate Torah - Modern physics validates Jewish Kabballah written 1000 years before Christ

REPEAT - Why does it offend you so deeply that modern science validates scripture to the deepest level imaginable

1- it violates everything you teach
2- it violates Ellen White
3- it violates creationism and its pseudo-science

Only an Intelligent response will do

[rob]

Greetings Dave

D"At what level are you discussing scripture – and why don’t you understand the experts

R" I like to keep things simple, but not simpler, a saying by Einstein.

Nor am I swayed by fancy notions of science study and big words. I do not like big fancy words, and the Mason culture to clash words with words. The word game playing as you claim.

D"Explaining a topic – to a Child, a Teen, a College Student, a Grad Student, and an Expert

R" I was a teacher, who likes to teach the simple, not the expert.

Define an expert? One who is heavily biased by fancy words already and cannot think of simple tasks and principles which challenge his thinking.

For example, you will not allow a single verse to challenge you because you follow the bulk of verses that present different views. Is this line upon line? No, is this lining up all the stones with a plumb bob? No, you are ignoring the facts for some theory.

Like a geologist over look human foot prints in the mud along side dino foot prints. Both can't be there. No, so they ignore the evidence before them.

D"The modern trend – religious leaders and Bible scholars are leaving the faith in record numbers
Why – because the myth of textual infusibility has been exposed
Why – because the myth of church infallibility has been exposed
YET
The other trend in society are a centuries worth of Darwinian scientist now promoting Intelligent Design – suggesting an Intelligent Designer

R" Give me an example of science people following Intelligent Designer?

I know of 700 Science people who support Intelligent Design, but fail to speak out publicly for fear of losing their job. Not much different to those afraid to refuse the vaccine jab when the influence came upon them.

I left my job and became unemployed and poor, rather than give up my reason powers to some stupid decisions.

I also do not drink town treated water for the same reason.

D" Modern physics validates Jewish Kabballah written 1000 years before Christ

R" Really? Is not the Opposer capable of
writing future stuff which gets humans deceived?

Give me one example of superior intellect from the Kabbalah?

I have read Kabbalah and it has some truth mixed with errors.

One the other hand the torah has truth all the way through, no errors at all, thus all inspired. Why would I need any other books?

You tried to bring down the torah without success. There are no errors in its messages.

D"modern science validates scripture to the deepest level imaginable

R" We can't even agree on reading poetry at a shallow level, so why would you think a deeper level is better?

Ho 9:13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
14 Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

Here is two poetry verses, with symbols in them.

You fail to understand that Poetry is about symbols and similes and parallels, and yet you challenge me to a deeper understanding of Scripture is better, superior even?

Here is a Creation Poem written by me aged 17 many years ago:-

Day One

Mighty light in labour,
Dawns upon the earth,
Slowly she awakens,
Creation into renewed birth.

One humble insect,
On wing toiling long,
Diligently she gathers,
Her portion of nature's fuel,
Among coloured rainbows,
She sings buzzing song,
Obediently her faithful work,
Reflects His patterned rule.
No fruits of her work,
Are easy to see,
Let us question our role,
Of grace from Thee.

One humble servant,
Who sings Scripture's Word
Diligently he gathers,
His manna of Holy Fuel,
Faith outward active,
For he surrendered heard,
Responds without a question,
To our blessed Saviour's Rule.

For faith is nothing
Anyone can see,
We should be a worker,
In our Lord's mercy.

Question: What is the bee a symbol of?

Question" Why does the Author consider faith as a food like manna?

Question" "His patterned rule" what does this phrase mean?

Sure Dave I can write very deep poetry, but can you fathom poems like these and answer my questions?

D"
Only an Intelligent response will do

R" I would be happy if you write more than brevity. In the torah there is a verse implying the "design the Designer designs" and strangely enough, I did not know this back than, as I do now, hence the thinking deeply is a gift from God.

Consider the DNA as programming code.
DO you have any experience in programming Dave?

How can one design a code of instructions that enables C++ and PHP to reside over the same letters, the codes differ depending upon the starting point.

I do not know of any human programming code like this? But it seems the DNA code is programming like this.

Shows you how superior our Programmer is.

Where is the code to tell the roadways in our cells to build in this direction, and than remove the road and go in another direction, and so forth. Billions of decisions to be made? Where is this code? Nobody knows.

And you say science can go deeper?
FOr example where is science in understanding the enzyme 3D structure for moving Sodium into our cells? Instead we think mineral Sodium is important? Rather I consider organic Sodium is important? How much do we know on any subject Dave?

Shalom

[Dave]

D"At what level are you discussing scripture – and why don’t you understand the experts
R" I like to keep things simple, but not simpler, a saying by Einstein.
Nor am I swayed by fancy notions of science study and big words.

Why are you so offended that modern science is validating scripture to a level deeper that ever possibly imagine?

D"Explaining a topic – to a Child, a Teen, a College Student, a Grad Student, and an Expert
R" I was a teacher, who likes to teach the simple, not the expert.
Define an expert?
Someone verse in the information enough to have an intelligent conversation

For example, you will not allow a single verse to challenge you because you follow the bulk of verses that present different views. Is this line upon line? No, is this lining up all the stones with a plumb bob? No, you are ignoring the facts for some theory.

Line upon line – the ORDER of cosmic evolution + Nebular Theory + Incremental Creation – WEDD + FD-WEDT –is 100% validated by modern science
Why are you so offended that modern science is validating scripture to a level deeper that ever possibly imagine?
---------------------------------------

Like a geologist over look human foot prints in the mud along side dino foot prints. Both can't be there. No, so they ignore the evidence before them.
Is there a chance you can be honest?
How does – the ORDER of cosmic evolution + Nebular Theory + Incremental Creation – WEDD + FD-WEDT – deny human foot prints in the mud along side dino foot prints?

How does your statement even belong here?
How does your comment have any relationship to what we are discussion?
--------------------------------------------------

R" Give me an example of science people following Intelligent Designer?
I know of 700 Science people who support Intelligent Design,
Hmmm? –
You doubt the truth - then post the truth
Do you agree with yourself or not?

What about INCREMENTAL CREATION
What about FD-WEDT
What about the volumes of information available on this form and my parent web-site

Sept 10, 2023 17:01:25 GMT -5 Dave said:

Darwin DEBUNKED: Using Modern Science (12 Minutes of Density!)

My carer was in a clinical laboratory – I have been in study groups with physicians, pathologist, and micobiologist – and we all have been school in genetics.

The conversation in this video is very much my experience. No one accepts Darwinism. Top down design = Intelligent design. As the one guy says – you need the language first before you can code for the rest.

Darwin was wrong about his bottoms up progressive evolution.
BUT
Darwin was correct about the ORDER of creation.

ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/605/darwin-debunked?page=1&scrollTo=9278

What about

Jan 16, 2024 4:10:50 GMT -5 Dave said:

Jewish Panethiesm – 1000 years before Jesus Christ

ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/626/jewish-panethiesm-years-before-christ?page=1&scrollTo=9941
---------------------------------------------------

D" Modern physics validates Jewish Kabballah written 1000 years before Christ
R" Really? Is not the Opposer capable of writing future stuff which gets humans deceived?

Now you credit your satan for writing scripture –
You sure love your satan God – that is very clear
------------------------------------------------------

Give me one example of superior intellect from the Kabbalah?
“Genesis, Zen and Quantum Physics – Jeff Benner”
------------------------------------------------------

I have read Kabbalah and it has some truth mixed with errors.

Jan 12, 2024 18:59:30 GMT -5 Dave said:

Your reading ability, and your vocabulary is <9th grade high school

--------------------------------------------------------

One the other hand the torah has truth all the way through, no errors at all, thus all inspired. Why would I need any other books?
You tried to bring down the torah without success. There are no errors in its messages.

1- Why do yo consider honesty an attempt to teard down the Torah?
2- Agreed - no errors in its messages.
3- no errors with the Tanak – is a misnomer – a miss-statement – an incorrect statement
You know it – you you just repeat your attitude – not facts

Ezekiel 28 does not agree with Numbers 14 and Exodus 20
Your precious Ezekiel almost did not even make it into the Tanak

spelling or spelling – word for word – sentence per sentence - verse per verse
The 4 different forms of the Hebrew OT do not agree with one another

Now for the NT – it is much more interestion with its many different authors – and inclusions over time
Was Jesus born in 6BC under King Herod the Great – before a Roman govenor was appointed 
or – in 6AD under King Herod Archelaus – and Roman prefect Coponius

There are no errors – is an error
------------------------------------------------

D"modern science validates scripture to the deepest level imaginable
D" Only an Intelligent response will do

R" I would be happy if you write more than brevity. In the torah there is a verse implying the "design the Designer designs" and strangely enough, I did not know this back than, as I do now, hence the thinking deeply is a gift from God.

R" Give me an example of science people following Intelligent Designer?
I know of 700 Science people who support Intelligent Design,

So confused to your point
Do you support intelligent design – or not?
You cannot support scientific Intelligent Design and be a strict ‘Don Patton’ creationist

Consider the DNA as programming code.
DO you have any experience in programming Dave?
Evidently – you have forgotten who you are speaking to


Shows you how superior our Programmer is.

Sept 10, 2023 17:01:25 GMT -5 Dave said:

Darwin DEBUNKED: Using Modern Science (12 Minutes of Density!)

So confused to your point
Do you support intelligent design – or not?

You cannot support scientific Intelligent Design and be a strict ‘Don Patton’ creationist
They are not compatible

Dan 12:4 … to the time of the end: - many shall run to and fro, - and knowledge shall be increased.

Why are you so offended that modern science is validating scripture to a level deeper that ever possibly imagine?

[rob]

Greetings Dave
D"Ezekiel 28 does not agree with Numbers 14 and Exodus 20
Your precious Ezekiel almost did not even make it into the Tanak

R" Maybe there are prophetic reasons for these differences?

D"The 4 different forms of the Hebrew OT do not agree with one another

R" really? typos, spelling mistakes, etc, How much of a difference are you talking about?

D"Was Jesus born in 6BC under King Herod the Great – before a Roman govenor was appointed
or – in 6AD under King Herod Archelaus – and Roman prefect Coponius

R" history. The Bible does not tell us exactly when. Do we need to know?

D" Evidently – you have forgotten who you are speaking to
R" Great. I program with PHP, Javascript, Delphi and some Quick Basic.

My son is far better than me, and my daughter also into programming for a living.

D"
You cannot support scientific Intelligent Design and be a strict ‘Don Patton’ creationist
They are not compatible

R" Why do you hate Don Patton so much?

D"Why are you so offended that modern science is validating scripture to a level deeper that ever possibly imagine?

R" This thread is about Benner's book on the Kabbalah?

-------------------

D"Physical reality = a holographic illusion – a manifestation of E upon the cloud of space-time

Jewish Panethiesm – 1000 years before Jesus Christ = current scientific theory = OT and NT scripture = Nag Hammadi Gnostic

The Gospel of Thomas
(113) His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
<Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

R" And you support this idea? So are you saying Jesus does not come a second time to take the saints home to heaven for a wedding feast that lasts for 1000 years, before returning the saints to earth as their final restored home?

D" The Gospel of Thomas
(77) Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the all. From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

Gnostic pantheism, no wonder I do not support your ideas. This passage is wrong. False.

D" Jewish Panetheism
At the sub-atomic level - Jewish theology (kabbal) is 100% Panetheism

I have a problem with your theory and what pantheism is.

D"Jewish Kabbalah says
Gen 2:7 Then Adonai Elohim formed the man out of the dust from the ground and He breathed into his nostrils a breath of life—so the man became a living being.

so the man became a living soul
so the man became a human being
Man = (biological beast)+(spiritual man)

R" In your creation of man, you have a plus.

The torah does not say this idea.

Define the living man, using your sub atomic pantheism idea.

----------------------

Video of our famous rabbi, speaking of Elon initially, not a Jew

Loving you fellow Jew is a challenge.
I learned the difference between people who are very religious and deeply religious.

The simple Jew is closer to God than the scholar.

R" I like this statement.

Genuine, not practicing a package. He was more real.

R" I like this statement.

Shalom

[Dave]

D"Ezekiel 28 does not agree with Numbers 14 and Exodus 20
Your precious Ezekiel almost did not even make it into the Tanak
R" Maybe there are prophetic reasons for these differences?

Difference = the opposite of there are no errors in scripture – opposite to the 100% infallible myth
Be honest – or shut up
-----------------------------------------

D"The 4 different forms of the Hebrew OT do not agree with one another
R" really? typos, spelling mistakes, etc, How much of a difference are you talking about?
ANSWER

Jan 19, 2024 18:12:03 GMT -5 Dave said:

WLC vrs DSS textual differences - James Tabor

ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/627/wlc-textual-differences-james-tabor?page=1&scrollTo=9945
-----------------------------------------

D"Was Jesus born in 6BC under King Herod the Great – before a Roman govenor was appointed
or – in 6AD under King Herod Archelaus – and Roman prefect Coponius
R" history. The Bible does not tell us exactly when. Do we need to know?

Difference = the opposite of there are no errors in scripture – opposite to the 100% infallible myth
Be honest – or shut up
--------------------------------------------

D" You cannot support scientific Intelligent Design and be a strict ‘Don Patton’ creationist
They are not compatible
R" Why do you hate Don Patton so much?
BECAUSE –

1- Dan 12:4 … to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
2- Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19-20 + the fulfillment of the LGBTYZ prophesy
3- because of 1948 Israel + current events
4- because of the possibility that a nuclear war would open a period of TRIBULATION
5- because the possibility of a global financial collapse would open a period of TRIBULATION
6- because of the trend of feminism + the Baby Bomb has opened the door to DEMOGRAPHIC WINTER

7- modern science is validating scripture to a level deeper that ever possibly imagine?
To the point that a centuries worth of Darwinian educated scientist are embracing an Intelligent Design

You cannot support scientific Intelligent Design and be a strict ‘Don Patton’ creationist
They are not compatible

R" Why do you hate Don Patton so much?
BECAUSE –
He presents a non-verifiable / non-validated / non-peer reviewed pseudo-science
You cannot support scientific Intelligent Design and be a strict ‘Don Patton’ creationist
They are not compatible

Christian Creationism has done as much harm to the faith as Darwin ever has
All the evidence proves Darwin wrong
All the evidence proves Creationism wrong
The population is left with two generations of miss-information
From science and from the church
It is an issue of CREDABILITY

R" This thread is about Benner's book on the Kabbalah?
Yep – and this entire book is all about the blend between modern scientific thinking and the Jewish Kabbalah thinking – he quotes both – side by side
Yep - - modern science is validating scripture to a level deeper that ever possibly imagine?
Jewish Panethiesm – 1000 years before Jesus Christ = current scientific theory = OT and NT scripture = Nag Hammadi Gnostic
D"Physical reality = a holographic illusion – a manifestation of E upon the cloud of space-time
-------------------

The Gospel of Thomas
(113) His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
<Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

R" And you support this idea? So are you saying Jesus does not come a second time to take the saints home to heaven for a wedding feast that lasts for 1000 years, before returning the saints to earth as their final restored home?

What does you comment have to do with 10 dimensions of space all co-existing at the same locality but at different energy levels
-----------------------------------------------

D" Jewish Panetheism
At the sub-atomic level - Jewish theology (kabbal) is 100% Panetheism
I have a problem with your theory and what pantheism is.

Jan 16, 2024 4:10:50 GMT -5 Dave said:

Jewish Panethiesm – 1000 years before Jesus Christ

ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/626/jewish-panethiesm-years-before-christ?page=1&scrollTo=9941

You made no comments – just to say – I DO NOT BEIEVE
We believe you
-------------------------------------------------

D"Jewish Kabbalah says
Gen 2:7 Then Adonai Elohim formed the man out of the dust from the ground and He breathed into his nostrils a breath of life—so the man became a living being.
Man = (biological beast)+(spiritual man)
R" In your creation of man, you have a plus.

Define the living man, using your sub atomic pantheism idea.
DUH - Gen 2:7 Then Adonai Elohim formed the man out of the dust from the ground

The torah does not say this idea.
It has always been Jewish Theology of the Pharisees – Life Lives
From God we came – we are having a physical soulhourn with a mission – to return to God for judgment
----------------------

Video of our famous rabbi, speaking of Elon initially, not a Jew
R" I like this statement.
The one about being honest? I doubt it

[rob]

Greetings Dave

I see Dr James Tabor again, and listened to his video for 10 minutes or so.

These differences as you both claim,
Masoetic WLC text, the Dead Sea Scrolls DSS and the LXX ,

you 'mention no differences in messages'.

I get that typos and spelling mistakes, and maybe little words added or deleted here and there...

Question: Did GOD preserve His words or didn't He via the human penmen?

I mean if the Hebrew letters are all wrong, than the Ancient Hebrew would also be wrong? If the word meanings disagree, than nobody would understand any Hebrew word meanings?

I find no such errors, though I have not studied all things, nor do Jews, they have no studies on the Hebrew word "aven" for instance.

Considering the dozens of authors and their Hebrew writings, it's funny even a miracle there is so much harmony?


Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

The torah says the Hebrew goes out into another universal tongue. Greek. Yet the prophecy also says with stammering lips.

So I do not doubt the confusion, it was pre-planned by the translation process.

Rather than quibble over 10% of the Bible with errors, I doubt this high even. why not read the 90% as it reads as the inspired Word of GOD.

But you use this as an excuse not to trust the torah, and so your supplements come in to deceive you.

As Ellen White explains, GOD has left enough doubt around for doubters.

Isa 28:15....for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

In fact some love the lies and the falsehood of the torah so they can use Gnostic supplements.

Is not the HS our tutor leading us into real truth? How much of the torah is required to accomplish this task?

I thank GOD for poetry, because most symbols are hidden for this reason, otherwise unbelieving scribes would have edited out the Scripture truths.

I have no trouble reading the Poetry symbols about a cherub sinning. But you do, Dave. In fact it seems Jews do not read their torah very well as all do they? I have read their commentaries and not much is said about the Ezekiel 28 poetry. Why is that?

Or about the cela rock?

Yet the Kabbalah is so mystical and deep, and yet they do not study the torah poetry?

--------------------

Why do you hate Don Patton so much?

D"3- because of 1948 Israel + current events
4- because of the possibility that a nuclear war would open a period of TRIBULATION
5- because the possibility of a global financial collapse would open a period of TRIBULATION

R" These are prophecy. A science person does not study future or past, only the present facts as observed.

D"He presents a non-verifiable / non-validated / non-peer reviewed

R" These points are not true.

Don Patton could be falsified, many listening did jump on planes flew back and with a crow bar destroyed his evidence of human foot prints among dino footprints.

Specifically where is Don Patton wrong?

m.facebook.com/LRchurchofChrist/videos/the-dead-sea-scrolls-with-dr-don-patton/896449800805285/

Don Patton on Dead Sea Scrolls to a little Rock Church of Christ.

He was a worker in Quran as a co-coordinator or something?

spent 5 years there, not whole year but large portion.

copied and copied, it is not the same thing thousands of years ago...

so has Bible eroded over time...

line of thought for a great deal of false doctrine

Joseph Smith , same theme, also Mulsims
took away many plain and precious parts.

SO has the Bible eroded...?

So many variants, so the texts are saying the messages are eroded.

That is not so.

Kuran, who sit down the light to Moses/

The people of the Scripture, changed the Scripture and distorted it, this is from Allah.

Same like of thought.

BART Ertum, modern Jew, all manuscripts have been eroded

Being a textual scholar, he remarks are understood.

In real, misspellings, tenses not the same here and there. Name a variant that would change you faith in the Messiah

Some passages were edited by scribes
do not affect faith... in brackets, added in later?

He acknowledges this....

One spelling mistake and 5000 manuscript copies you have 5000 mistakes.
You are seeing a bias in his dealings.

Stop here. 10 minutes

Now where is his words that you disagree on?

-----------------
D"What does you comment have to do with 10 dimensions of space all co-existing at the same locality but at different energy levels

R" If the kingdom of God is already here among us? No need for a second coming through ORION is there?

Gabriel took 15 minutes to reach Daniels praying from heaven's throne.

SO your whole premise is wrong.

Heaven is not among us on another level as you claim, among us.

D"You made no comments – just to say – I DO NOT BEIEVE
We believe you

R" I am having real trouble defining pantheism....

Some questions for you

(1) The Father is not of matter.

Yes/ no?

(2) So how does living matter exist?

(3) How does non-living atoms exist?

String theory and quantum theory is just that, a theory.

We do not know.

So how does pantheism affect a Jews view of GOD?

Can GOD be a piece a wood? Absolutely NO

God is personal and a personal conscious being. A piece of wood cannot speak or see, is nothing...

Now try to detail your details, otherwise I have nothing much more to say about this mystery.

-------------------

Ge 2:7 And the LORD <Y@hovah> God <'elohiym> formed <yatsar> man <'adam> of the dust <`aphar> of <min> the ground <'adamah>, and breathed <naphach> into his nostrils <'aph> the breath <n@shamah> of life <chay>; and man <'adam> became a living <chay> soul <nephesh>.

WOW, I notice something, thanks LORD

No ruwach here, no bara here.

Formed, nashamah, chay...nephesh

All of these Hebrew words are biological and from matter.


Job 27:3 All the while <`owd> my breath <n@shamah> is in me, and the spirit <ruwach> of God <'elowahh> is in my nostrils <'aph>;

Now we have additional elements

ruwach, eloah are divine beings of God

Job 33:4 The Spirit <ruwach> of God <'el> hath made <`asah> me, and the breath <n@shamah> of the Almighty <Shadday> hath given me life <chayah>.


The strong authority of the ruwach does things : gives nashamah from the Shadday and chayah, ongoing living.

Question: Does the divine explain how these divine elements are fixed into the biological formation of man and his breath of life?

No details given - a mystery.

D"It has always been Jewish Theology of the Pharisees – Life Lives

R" This is highly disrespectful of the torah and the Word. Sure the shadday lives, this is a divine word, not a word associated with man directly. DO Jews tells us what Hebrew word they are using even? No, they don't.

The Rabbi Says "The simple Jew is closer to God than the scholar.

ROb" I like this.

D"The one about being honest? I doubt it

R" You should learn to become simple rather than a scholar.

Shalom

[Dave]

These differences as you both claim,
Masoetic WLC text, the Dead Sea Scrolls DSS and the LXX ,
you 'mention no differences in messages'.
James Tabor highlights 5-6 differences
---------------------------------------------------------

Why do you hate Don Patton so much?
D"3- because of 1948 Israel + current events
4- because of the possibility that a nuclear war would open a period of TRIBULATION
5- because the possibility of a global financial collapse would open a period of TRIBULATION
R" These are prophecy. A science person does not study future or past, only the present facts as observed.

Be honest – can you be?
1- Dan 12:4 … to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
2- Psa 19:2 + Rom 1:19-20 + the fulfillment of the LGBTYZ prophesy
6- because of the trend of feminism + the Baby Bomb has opened the door to DEMOGRAPHIC WINTER
7- modern science is validating scripture to a level deeper that ever possibly imagine?
To the point that a centuries worth of Darwinian educated scientist are embracing an Intelligent Design
Are we in the end times where knowledge grows – supporting scripture to a level deeper that ever possibly imagine

R" Why do you hate Don Patton so much?
BECAUSE –
He presents a non-verifiable / non-validated / non-peer reviewed pseudo-science
You cannot support scientific Intelligent Design and be a strict ‘Don Patton’ creationist
They are not compatible

R" These points are not true.
Specifically where is Don Patton wrong?

We have been all over this before

Mar 30, 2021 11:01:14 GMT -5 Dave said:

Don Patton and Creation Ministries
143 post over 10 pages

ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/492/don-patton-creation-ministries
You stopped trying to defend his buffoonery – May 2022
-----------------

D"What does you comment have to do with 10 dimensions of space all co-existing at the same locality but at different energy levels
R" If the kingdom of God is already here among us? No need for a second coming through ORION is there?
REPEAT - D"What does you comment have to do with 10 dimensions of space all co-existing at the same locality but at different energy levels

[rob]

greetings Dave

D"James Tabor highlights 5-6 differences

R" And is this enough to destroy the process of faith in God, or how faith works in the saint and God?

I would say no, I can fully understand faith without knowing some errors/

So the torah is completely inspired and reliable.

D"REPEAT - D"What does you comment have to do with 10 dimensions of space all co-existing at the same locality but at different energy levels

R" so it is possible to have heaven located 15 minutes away traveling at the speed of light, and also allow Jesus come through Orion.

You failed yet again to discuss my words.

You only say "what has my words got to do with your words".


Shalom

[Dave]

R" And is this enough to destroy the process of faith in God, or how faith works in the saint and God?
I would say no, I can fully understand faith without knowing some errors/
Yet – you teach satan is a god
Yet – you teach the Creator is weak – and unable to control His own creation
Yet – you teach – even the angles can fall from God love
Yet – you teach that your satan god possess all men – rules all men
Yet – you teach your satan gosd is self-made – against God’s will
Yet – you teach your satan god changed all of God’s tov creation into something flawed
All against God’s Will

So the torah is completely inspired and reliable.
Yet – you teach Ezk 28 as ½ of your entire theology

D"REPEAT - D"What does you comment have to do with 10 dimensions of space all co-existing at the same locality but at different energy levels
R" so it is possible to have heaven located 15 minutes away traveling at the speed of light, and also allow Jesus come through Orion.
You failed yet again to discuss my words.
Your word are meaningless – they just prove you do not understand the concept of multidimensionality

You only say "what has my words got to do with your words".
Please teach me how the 1st dimension exists in a separate location than the 2nd dimension
Please teach me how the 3rd dimension exists in a different location than the 2nd dimension
Please teach me how a 3 dimensional object exist - if dimensions 1, 2, and 3 cannot occupie the same space?

Ever take any chemistry?
Just how do s shells and p shells and d shells and f shells all exist in the same location without interfering with one another?
Answer – they each exist at a different energy level



Higher dimensions can affect the lower dimensions
But the lower dimensions have no impact on the higher levels

You failed yet again to discuss my words.
Your word are meaningless – they just prove you do not understand the concept of multidimensionality

[rob]

Greetings Dave

D"you teach satan is a god

R" Ps 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the "strong authorities"; he judgeth among the "eloihym's".

R" correct. the hebrew word "el" is used here. As well as the word "elohiym's"

Also as humans fall, the "princes" fall, the Hebrew word is "sar" or Greek "archons". verse 7 of the same Psalm

D"you teach the Creator is weak – and unable to control His own creation

R"Ge 3:17 ¶ And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

R" This verse does not say GOD is weak, or not in control.

God allows free will to choose, than after that GOD reacts to the free will of choice with consequences to sin.

God switched off genes in the serpent, so it could not walk
God cursed child birth in Eve
God allowed the SHAD weeds to grow in Adam's kingdom.
So I read GOD is fully in control of the sin problem and planning for sin at every step before sin occurs.
Your premise is wrong.

D"– you teach – even the angles can fall from God love

R"Ho 9:13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.

Here are two symbols of humans planted in a pleasant place, Ephraim and Tyrus.

With children sacrificed to the hareg ( on a fire of sacrifice the children become ash)

Jesus is telling you to look up the poetry symbol of Tyrus for the hareg creature.

Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

R" It is clear the cherub creature can sin, and thus has free will to sin.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Here is some clues to what the cherub does to humans.... While GOD promises to make the cherub ash under His feet, the cherub with it's iniquities promises to make humans as ash under its feet.

D"you teach that your satan god possess all men – rules all men"

R" Jesus cast out SHAD all the time on earth, sure they rule over you.

D" you teach your satan gosd is self-made – against God’s will

R" If GOD is perfectly all TOV, by defintion than GOD also knows all RA, the opposite of his character, without doing the RA personally.

So the opposite of loving and love has to be fully known by God as well. Without actually doing the opposite.

Barak means to bless, but in context can mean it's opposite, curse
Narach means to test, but in context can mean it's opposite, tempt.

I really doubt you can do anything that God does not know about already or fully see into the future, so your premise is wrong.

D"you teach your satan god changed all of God’s tov creation into something flawed

R" Is sin something positive about God's love or something negative about God's love?

Really Dave, you still do not understand.

D"Your word are meaningless – they just prove you do not understand the concept of multidimensionality

R" OK you stick to your weird ideas, not explained. I will not guess what you are saying futher.

D"Higher dimensions can affect the lower dimensions
But the lower dimensions have no impact on the higher levels

R" OK so what does Chemistry and the P and S orbitals have to do with heaven and the demensions of heaven?

D"You failed yet again to discuss my words.

R" because you don't write any words.

D"they just prove you do not understand the concept of multidimensionality

R" So? I don't understand.

I asked you a simple question once, you also failed to respond?

"the concept of multidimensionality of poetry"

You failed to respond to my questions?

"Love is a river. A dam fed you some.
Clear was its water, traditionally done".

Who is the dam in this poem?
Why does the dam control the flow of love?
Who is the river in this poem?
How does this explain the breast of the wife being masculine in grammar?

D"Higher dimensions can affect the lower dimensions
But the lower dimensions have no impact on the higher levels

R" Are you sure about this? Even a sparrow does not fall to the ground without the Father's notice. Someone once posed a butterfly wing can spark a cyclone somewhere else over the world.

We ponder things we fail to fathom/
things to high for me. Ps 131.

Shalom