Ezk 28 and satan

[Dave]

So what do you wish to write about ?

Why don’t you answer the question asked of you?
That would be a good start

Scripture makes it perfectly clear – MONOTHIESM – the is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD
Immediately you argue the duality of God/Christ – as if was really complicated
You deny the spirit – so the Holy Spirit means nothing to you
John 1:1 word = word = word – is scripture you must deny

Exo 33:20 But He also said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live.”
God the Father – beyound man or man’s ability to comprehend
Exo 33:21 Then Adonai said, “See, a place near Me—you will stand on the rock.
Exo 33:22 While My glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and cover you with My hand, until I have passed by.
The Glory of God that passes by – the Spirit of God / Holy
Exo 33:23 Then I will take away My hand, and you will see My back, but My face will not be seen.”
The image of God – God that man can see in this 3D realm – Christ

Robert teaches this passage proves God is the Father – married to the Holy Spirit Mother – so a Son can be born – it is a family

There is ONLY ONE GOD – there is no other
However – God the Father is beyond man and man’s ability to comprehend

R - This is why there are two comforters, the HS and Jesus CHRIST bring the power of the Father to humans.
TRINITY - One God - two hands - Left Hand (feminine) + Right Hand (masculine)
TRINITY – One God – two hands – spirit and image
TRINITY – One God – two hands – Holy Spirit and Christ

------------------------

You pretend that your satan god of evil hates God – is at war with God – opposes God
But you refuse to answer why your satan obeys God in each and every 23+49 verses
You claim your satan god is SIN and a sinner – but refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey God

Your only response was – anyone opposing man → opposes God
But when I ask – when God opposes man – is God a sinner and opposing Himself
You change the subject
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Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:50 And Yeshua cried out again with a loud voice and gave up His spirit.
Mat 27:50 And Jesus having again cried with a great voice, yielded the spirit;

Mar 15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
Mar 15:37 And Jesus having uttered a loud cry, yielded the spirit,

You deny anything was poured out – because man has no spirit
You teach – your god died – and lately you have added to the Second Death

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh,

PUT TO DEATH IN THE FLESH – MORTAL DEATH – DEATH OF BIOLOGY

but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

WHY DO YOU DENY THE SPIRIT
--------------------

You present the ABSOLUTE most stupid idea of vegetarian sharks
You are proud of your buddy Don Patton
You openly work to diminish the faith but promoting ignorance
You openly work to diminish the faith by denying Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2
Why would any Christian stand against the idea of an Intelligent Design?
-----------------------

You present the mandatory 24 hour days for creation week
But deny Day 7 is on-going and open to the saved
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D"THE REAL QUESTION IS – WHY DO YOU DENY THE NEW TESTAMENT?
R" I don't. In the days of John the baptist, many were baptised before Jesus had died for their sins,, and later after the resurrection, many were baptised after Jesus went to heaven, fully empowered.

So there were different phases of Jesus power promised to those receiving baptism. Now anybody baptized receives Jesus fully. Ask anything in my Name Jesus says, and Jesus will do it.
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The Gospel of Philip
If one goes down into the water and comes up without having received anything, and says "I am a Christian," he has borrowed the name at interest. But if he receives the Holy Spirit, he has the name as a gift. He who has received a gift does not have to give it back, but of him who has borrowed it at interest, payment is demanded.

Pretend scripture means something else
Pretend the mysteries of the Bible only happened to ancient man
Pretend that God died upon the cross
Pretend there is no such thing as spirit
Pretend your god is inactive now
Pretend that a created being can change his own form and function and then change God’s Plan against God’s Will

None of your pretense is Mainstream Judo-Christin teaching

[Deleted]

Good morning Dave

Is there anything of value you have learned since our discussions?

Or has your theology remained unchanged since we began all those years ago?

When I show you Scripture, you fail to discuss the words and so twist the verses into your own understanding.

Ps 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Why are humans written in Scripture as similes of trees?

Trees drink water lots of it before the SUN appears. Most of the water is used to cool the righteousness of the trees leaves during the testing trials of meeting SONlight which is required for the faith process of making sugar, that sweet presence of living.

Trees have two phases of growth, the roots grow in the dark and deal with the tasks of missing nutrient foods or seeking nutrient foods. The shoots deal with the Sonlight of dazzling power, that makes the tree suffer from wilting. This is a daily process of exhaustion and thus every day the tree requires refreshing times, and so drinks again the Holy Spirit.

My favorite tree is the Angophora costata, commonly known as Sydney red gum, rusty gum or smooth-barked apple, is a species of tree that is common to eastern Australia, not a true gum tree. When I was a teen, I found two trees joined as one (echad) at the base, and called them the marriage tree, They were both similar but different. The male tree was muscular and rough, the female tree was fatter and smoother. The base of the trees saw no joins, they grew as one.

Such finds are extremely rare, but it teaches me much about natural similes and the common simple comparisons such trees demonstrate for human.

Shalom

[Dave]

Is there anything of value you have learned since our discussions?
I have sure learn a lot about satanic hold upon the Seventh Day Advantest and their following
I have learned that Ellen White has convinced you of a few keys errors that prevent you from seeing Christianity as real
I have learned that your absolute denial of Intelligent Designe speaks volumes as to your revelation
I have learned that you are unable or unwilling to read English with comprehension
I have learned that your only consistent attack is to misrepresent others
I have learned that your only consistent defense is to attack the source

Or has your theology remained unchanged since we began all those years ago?
Greatly strengthened – reinforced – grows every day
Make me think – make me Ponder – make me pray – I love it
TEST ME LORD – anyway you want
USE ME LORD – anyway you want

FACT – your brand of satan speak and Creationism – keeps people away from the church

The more you preach the power of your satan god – the weaker you make the Creator
Eventually – the legacy of Roman Catholicism =

Look at the Gen 3:15 Contest between man and WORLD and man and ARCHON - IF THERE IS A GOD – He is weak or does not care – or is NOT there
-----------------------

When I show you Scripture, you fail to discuss the words and so twist the verses into your own understanding.

Word Game
Word – noun, plural noun: words
1. a single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing, used with others (or sometimes alone) to form a sentence and typically shown with a space on either side when written or printed.
"I don't like the word “unofficial”"

One of us refuse to acknowledge CONTEXT, grammar, syntax, and is unable to translate
One of us refuses to acknowledge canon history and the textual variation within scripture that forces precept upon precept, line upon line to be the measure of scripture
Instead one of us has an entire religion build around two standalone words + Roman Catholic doctrine

BRING IT ON – I have answer all your questions with documentations of source

CAN YOU SAY THE SAME?

BRING IT ON – I have answer all your questions with documentations of source
You refuse to hear it – and attack the source
You pretend Judaism was as your church told you it was - ERROR

Bring an intelligent discussion without your made up assumptions – and miss-applied metaphors

[Deleted]

D" BRING IT ON – I have answer all your questions with documentations of source

R" You have?

Question 1) "androgynous just like their parent" Show me an example of a creature created by GOD that is a higher form of intelligence that is "androgynous just like their parent" ?


Question 2) Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety.
Show me a scripture or some source where creatures sin immediately upon their birth. So sinning is a state of being, rather than a decision of the cognitive mind, the battle of yester TOV verses yester RA. Your Gnostic writings change the definition of sin and sinning. 


Question 3) Yaldabaoth and cast him down into Tartaros below the abyss.
How come Yaldabaoth, the chief shedim can tempt humans to sin when he is cast into Tartaros below the abyss, upon the earth, Obviously the earth is a prison house, and we humans are placed here as well. But you say the shedim and his angels are locked in chains in the Tartaros, so cannot do anything?

Maybe they are not locked up but the chains Peter refers to is the fact they are restricted to earth only. Peter also refers to humans in a prison house, trapped by our sinnings also. 

Question 4) Why do you not consider the shedim as sinning angels?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil

John says the shedim were sinning from the beginning.

You agree with this idea, Gen 1:2.

So if the shedim were sinning, they must have chosen to become sinning?

Not as Gnostic says, immediately became sinning. They chose to become sinning over time.

Same idea as ezekiel 28, the cherubim chosen to guard God's laws, instead over time sinned against guarding the laws, and rebelled, becoming a sinning cherub instead.

Same idea as John saying here.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

You see these sinning angels NOT able to tempt humans, it simply says they are restricted to earth as their prison house.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Humans are also in prison, trapped by sin, the same idea as angels trapped by their sins, are chained to earth as their prison house.


Shalom

[Dave]

LOOK AT HOW DETAILED YOU ANSWER QUESTIONS

Question 1) "androgynous just like their parent" Show me an example of a creature created by GOD that is a higher form of intelligence that is "androgynous just like their parent" ?
King Solomon tells us that the shedim are shape shifters – they can make you see things

REPTILES MOSTLY – SNAKES – serpents – turtles – some fish

Question 2) Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety.
Show me a scripture or some source where creatures sin immediately upon their birth. So sinning is a state of being, rather than a decision of the cognitive mind, the battle of yester TOV verses yester RA. Your Gnostic writings change the definition of sin and sinning.

Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.
Rev 12:4 His tail sweeps away a third of the stars of heaven—it hurled them to the earth. Now the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that whenever she gave birth he might devour her child.

Question 3) Yaldabaoth and cast him down into Tartaros below the abyss.
How come Yaldabaoth, the chief shedim can tempt humans to sin when he is cast into Tartaros below the abyss, upon the earth, Obviously the earth is a prison house, and we humans are placed here as well. But you say the shedim and his angels are locked in chains in the Tartaros, so cannot do anything?

Earlier you admitted that yu did not understand Tartarus and would not discuss it
How can you now use the word with authority?

Maybe they are not locked up but the chains Peter refers to is the fact they are restricted to earth only. Peter also refers to humans in a prison house, trapped by our sinnings also.
Why do you teach that Queensland Australia is the darkest pit of hell
Here = hell is 100% a Jehovah’s Witness teaching
I live in the mountains of Colorado – I am amazed by God’s magnificent creation each and every day

Question 4) Why do you not consider the shedim as sinning angels?
I do – the bane elohiym – violated the commandment of God
2 Pet 2:4 – God did NOT spare them – they are held in chains awaiting Judgment Day
Why do you deny the New Testament in favor of Roman Catholic doctrine?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil

John says the shedim were sinning from the beginning.
You agree with this idea, Gen 1:2.
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire.
Jas 1:15 Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is full grown, it brings forth death.

So if the shedim were sinning, they must have chosen to become sinning?
Just your assumption – scripture says

I accept scripture - Col – 1:16 made by Him for Him

Pro 16:4 Adonai works everything out for his own purpose—even the wicked for a day of disaster.
Pro 16:4 All things hath Jehovah wrought for Himself, And also the wicked worketh for a day of evil.
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Rev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!”
Rev 4:11 'Worthy art Thou, O Lord, to receive the glory, and the honour, and the power, because Thou—Thou didst create the all things, and because of Thy will are they, and they were created.'
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

The angels that did not keep their first estate = the bane elohiym of Gen 6

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Humans are also in prison, trapped by sin, the same idea as angels trapped by their sins, are chained to earth as their prison house.
Christ preached to the spirits of the dead men of the time of Noah

1Pe 3:19 Through the Ruach He also went and preached to the spirits in prison.
1Pe 3:20 Long ago they disobeyed while God kept waiting patiently, in the days of Noah as the ark was being built. In that ark a few (that is, eight souls) were brought safely through water.

[Deleted]

Greetings Dave

D"King Solomon tells us that the shedim are shape shifters – they can make you see things

R" I do not trust King Solomon wrote this scroll, some deceiver wrote this to deceive us into thinking King Solomon wrote this. This is a Greek edit, by some Greek pagans wanting to deceive the Hebrew truth.



D" Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.
Rev 12:4 His tail sweeps away a third of the stars of heaven—it hurled them to the earth.


R" OK, you are saying the archon was created immediately as a sinning creature, but cannot repent, so also sweeps other creatures with him??
And all this took 6 second, bustle? Be honest Dave?

Can 100% yester ra accomplish all this inclination so fast, sweeping 100 billion messengers off their feet?


Sounds like sinning angels choosing to do sinning, and one chief angel helping them to sin over a long time breaking down relationships.

D"Here = hell is 100% a Jehovah’s Witness teaching

R" Didn't know this. I do not see the Abyss as earth, it's a place unknown on earth where the dead go. Hebrew letter Q, over the horizon, unknown.

Peter is talking about a prison house, that is different. Peter is saying when we sin we are trapped on earth in a prison house, our living bodies entrap our spirit.

(not as you claim, spirits outside the body)

RP"Question 4) Why do you not consider the shedim as sinning angels?
D" I do – the bane elohiym – violated the commandment of God
2 Pet 2:4 – God did NOT spare them – they are held in chains awaiting Judgment Day

R" 
OK if the sinning angels are considered shedim and are chained up, why do some shedim run into pigs, and are called legion, for we are many?

Maybe the chaining process refers to remaining on earth?

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Why do you have three creatures of sin?

a) archons created to be sinning with 100% yester ra, but cannot repent
b) angels who chose to be sinning, and still alive for thousands of years awaiting judgement for their sinning in silence in chains?
c) humans who do sinning, but can repent, and live only a few short years of sinning?

You embrace confusion, no wonder you love to ponder confusion?

Scripture speaks of one kind of sinning. God creates only sinless creatures that are very good, not creatures with 100% Yester RA in them.

Angels chose to become sinning
Humans choose to become sinning.

The first creature to choose sinning is an angel.

ANd you agree with me on this?

You refuse to follow Roman edit, but you are happy to be deceived by Greek edit?

Why not follow Hebrew as it reads?



RP" So if the shedim were sinning, they must have chosen to become sinning?
D" Just your assumption – scripture says

I accept scripture - Col – 1:16 made by Him for Him
Pro 16:4 Adonai works everything out for his own purpose—even the wicked for a day of disaster.
Rev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!”

R" GOD creating sinless creatures that choose sinning is my view Dave.

DO you really think GOD creates sinning creatures? Your Gnostic writings deceive you.


D"1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Humans are also in prison, trapped by sin, the same idea as angels trapped by their sins, are chained to earth as their prison house.
Christ preached to the spirits of the dead men of the time of Noah


R" Jesus preached to the living bodies entrapping their spirits in a prison house.

All who sin are trapped in prison house.


1Pe 3:21 ¶ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Here Peter explains, the simile is like baptism, we put off our bodies and rise out of the water as spirits freed from the prison house. We live without being trapped in a prison house any longer, freed from sin.

Your reasoning is wrong, Peter is talking of an idiom, a poetry simile, the word "figure" is here in the next verse.

Shalom

[Dave]

D"King Solomon tells us that the shedim are shape shifters – they can make you see things
R" I do not trust King Solomon wrote this scroll

YES - you only defense it to attack the source
Except - Precept upon precept, line upon line

King Solomon’s shedim form the foundation of Jewish demonology
King Solomon’s shedim are the ‘other gods’ of the Levant
King Solomon’s shedim are the foundation for all other pagan religions of the 99%
King Solomon’s shedim were discussed at length by the authors of the agl/NT – James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, Thomas, and Luke – except in First Century Greek they are called Archon

The shedim/archon explain Gen 6
The shedim/archon explain the Rephiem
The shedim/archon explain the ‘other gods’ all around the globe
The shedim/archon explain – ancient astronauts / space gods / and our modern UFO phenomena
The shedim/archon explain Lilith and the satyrs of the ahl/OT

Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satanas, who deceives the whole world.

The shedim/archon are a serpent race and explain why the serpent is prevalent in pagan religions Australia / Americas/ INDIA / Hindi

Precept upon precept, line upon line
King Solomon’s shedim / Gnostic archon are our real struggle – Eph 6:12
The shedim/archon – explain the Illuminati / the Omega Conspiracy / and shadow governments
“Just outside our field of vision – are entities that are anything but human – that have been manipulating this world from the outside for eons – some call them demonic – some call them the serpent race – Islam call them the Jinn” – David Ike
James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, Thomas, and Luke called them archon
King Solomon called them shedim

Precept upon precept, line upon line
Even Jesus Christ validated that the chief of the demons = Beelzebul and his shedim
Even Jesus Christ validated King Solomon
All of His audience - Pharasiess - teahers - common folk all understood Jesus Christ
Because Jewish demionology has alwas been Beelzebul and the shedim

Precept upon precept, line upon line - no matter where - when - or on what scale 
All reality finds its foundation in the Torah and the Jews
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D" Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon that had seven heads and ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.
Rev 12:4 His tail sweeps away a third of the stars of heaven—it hurled them to the earth.
R" OK, you are saying the archon was created immediately as a sinning creature, but cannot repent, so also sweeps other creatures with him??
Sometimes stars are just stars – Wormwood is a star NOT an angel
The Beast appeared in a plurality
The Beast fathered – as in procreation – his offspring
No created being ever changed its form or function against God Will

And all this took 6 second, bustle? Be honest Dave?
Any comment about time is STUPID
YES - I once used 6 seconds or 6 nano-seconds as an example 
The POINT – NOT a struggle for God – not a hardship for God – nothing more than an INCONVIENCE
God said BE GONE – the Holy Spirit hid the archon away – Michael kicked him/them out
OVER IN AN INSTANT - no BEAST can stand against God 
your satan god cannot stand against God on any level

Can 100% yester ra accomplish all this inclination so fast, sweeping 100 billion messengers off their feet?
Sometimes stars are just stars – Wormwood is a star NOT an angel
The Beast appeared in a plurality
The Beast fathered – as in procreation – his offspring
No created being ever changed its form or function against God Will

D"Here = hell is 100% a Jehovah’s Witness teaching
R" Didn't know this. I do not see the Abyss as earth, it's a place unknown on earth where the dead go. Hebrew letter Q, over the horizon, unknown.
BOY – you will invent anything to deny the spiritual
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Peter is talking about a prison house, that is different. Peter is saying when we sin we are trapped on earth in a prison house, our living bodies entrap our spirit.
(not as you claim, spirits outside the body)

1Pe 3:19 Through the Ruach He also went and preached to the spirits in prison.
1Pe 3:20 Long ago they disobeyed while God kept waiting patiently, in the days of Noah as the ark was being built. In that ark a few (that is, eight souls) were brought safely through water.

Now you are teaching that the dead of THE FLOOD 6 are NOT dead but still alive on earth somewhere
Once you start a lie – it just has to grow and grow until it is out of control
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RP"Question 4) Why do you not consider the shedim as sinning angels?
D" I do – the bane elohiym – violated the commandment of God
2 Pet 2:4 – God did NOT spare them – they are held in chains awaiting Judgment Day
R" OK if the sinning angels are considered shedim and are chained up, why do some shedim run into pigs, and are called legion, for we are many?
Maybe the chaining process refers to remaining on earth?
Sorry Robert the “sinning angels” of 2 Pet 2:4 and Jude 1:6 only numbered around 200
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Why do you have three creatures of sin?
a) archons created to be sinning with 100% yester ra, but cannot repent
Why must you misrepresent – you surely know better by now

The archon are BEAST – the most subtle of all the BEAST
Cows were NOT created to sin – they were created to go forth be fruitful and multiply
Ants were NOT created to sin – they were created to go forth be fruitful and multiply
Bacteria was NOT created to sin – they were created to go forth be fruitful and multiply
BEAST were NOT created to sin – they were created to go forth be fruitful and multiply
the “sinning angels” of 2 Pet 2:4 and Jude 1:6 only numbered around 200

b) angels who chose to be sinning, and still alive for thousands of years awaiting judgement for their sinning in silence in chains?
Why must you misrepresent – you surely know better by now
No created being ever changed its form or function against God’s Will then altered God’s Plan against God’s Will

The “sinning angels” of 2 Pet 2:4 and Jude 1:6 = the bane elohiym of Gen 6
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RP" So if the shedim were sinning, they must have chosen to become sinning?
D" Just your assumption – scripture says

I accept scripture - Col – 1:16 made by Him for Him
Pro 16:4 Adonai works everything out for his own purpose—even the wicked for a day of disaster.
Rev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!”

R" GOD creating sinless creatures that choose sinning is my view Dave.
You can disagree with scripture if you choose – your choice
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D"1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Humans are also in prison, trapped by sin, the same idea as angels trapped by their sins, are chained to earth as their prison house.
Christ preached to the spirits of the dead men of the time of Noah

R" Jesus preached to the living bodies entrapping their spirits in a prison house.
All who sin are trapped in prison house.

Scripture says Christ preached to the spirits of the dead men of the time of Noah
1Pe 3:19 Through the Ruach He also went and preached to the spirits in prison.
1Pe 3:20 Long ago they disobeyed while God kept waiting patiently, in the days of Noah as the ark was being built. In that ark a few (that is, eight souls) were brought safely through water.

Did the men at the time of Noah die – or were they still alive on earth somewhere waiting for Christ
The men died a mortal death – bodies in the grave – spirits release back into heaven for judgment
WHY DO YOU DENY THE NEW TESTAMENT – who gives you the authority to rewrite scripture

Why do you deliberately misrepresent scripture to others?

[Deleted]

Happy Sabbath Dave. 

We have the flu at the moment, the planes are dumping viruses on us I reckon, making us sick. Our lemon tree comes in handy.

D"BEAST were NOT created to sin – they were created to go forth be fruitful and multiply

R" Your Gnostic writings say otherwise, the beast archon "sinned in it's entirety"

So are you lying here Dave, or just trying to get out of a difficult spot?

Or is this a word game, the translators made a mistake, maybe the author made a mistake?

Please explain?


Now you are saying God did not create sinning creatures. Great.


So explain how the serpent is aram, and deceives the woman with truth (Jeff Benner again), in my view, the aram creature sins, because John says so, and Jude says so and Ezekiel says so.

So you agreed the shedim are sinning, because they choose to do sinning? So if God did not create them as sinning creatures, they must have chosen to become sinning creatures. But you deny this idea? Or do you?

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D"No created being ever changed its form or function against God Will

R" really explain why 200 angels sinned than? A change in function....



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D"The POINT – NOT a struggle for God – not a hardship for God – nothing more than an INCONVIENCE

R" Do we even have the same GOD?

1Jo 4:8 .. God is love.

So reasoning with creatures, experiencing a break down in relationship is nothing more than an "INCONVIENCE" ? I pity your understanding of GOD?

God waited 400 years for a race of humans to finish choosing God or not choosing God, and you make sinning by any creature a mere inconvenience?

You had better detail your stories better

1) You have God asking an angel to be a prosecutor for human sinning's.
How on earth this is possible for even an angel to achieve, I will never know, for all sinning starts in the mind, with reasonings against God, and a prosecuting angel cannot read people's minds nor read God's mind.


Only later in time do missing become transgressions, that any angel could see and write down as a sin of some kind.


So over 90% of the missing is missed by the prosecuting angel to begin with.

Your stories are weird and defy logic. No scripture evidence of such court room proceedings to begin with. Evidence though the oppose accuses man before God, because the devil finds God's love and forgiveness unfair when it comes to sinning against the LAW, and the LAW demands non-existence. So there has to be universal LAW in order to achieve a divine pardon in the first place. But the devil hates this love stuff and this ability to divinely pardon sinning. He is an opposer. The Hebrew word tells you this.


2) You have a chief ARAM creature termed serpent/beast/dragon. Is this creature also termed Shedim? How come it exists before Gen 6?

I suppose its those archons created as sinless creatures with 100% yester ra in them, so they can tempt mankind.

Question: How can a creature be especially created to tempt humans to sin?

100% yester ra will not do this, it's only a thing to multiple and survive, with instinct.

To tempt humans to sin, you would have to have a mind capable of thinking weirdly. (Look up what ARAM means in Scripture) .  In other words sinning yourself, so you can deceive, twist, cheat, lie and fabricate stuff. You need to confirm your stand Dave, about the shedim/archons?

a) How did the archon come to be ? sinless and than sinning?

Than you have no universal laws to govern the living or any being, including God, so we cannot discuss anything with certainty....so God cannot be a judge, and nothing is certain. No physical laws exist either? But my logic of GOD is He has laws, and physical laws, and thus universal laws defining love.
I see love a fundamental physical law, just as certain as gravity law is.
Which means GOD has to obey His own laws of love.
Thus God never wounded any human. Removing their probation of living is possible after all, God is the ultimate source of all living and judgement.

If you remove this established view, than your view is nothing, nothing is certain and your Gnostic view has God doing evil as well as controlling evil.

I once got you to see shedim are sinning creatures, now you back track.

3) you have only 200 sinning angels. How they are allowed to change function I don't know? Your views are weird.

Did these angels choose to be sinning angels Dave? Y/N ?

----------------

Dave suggests mankind sinned first, and the angels sinned only later in Gen 6.

So explain the aram creature in Gen 2? Was it sinless or sinning?  

Is the serpent a shedim? Than it was sinning shedim?

You really need Ezekiel 28 to make all the pieces fit, but you refuse.

Ancient CHinese knew of a devil, a sinning creature long before Gen 6, and this creature was sinning in the Garden of Eden, to be a devil.

Makes my view older than your view Dave. Your view is a Greek edit.

I follow Noah's view told to the Chinese. The serpent was a devil shedim and was sinning long before mankind sinned.

Shalom

[Dave]

D"BEAST were NOT created to sin – they were created to go forth be fruitful and multiply
R" Your Gnostic writings say otherwise, the beast archon "sinned in it's entirety"
So are you lying here Dave, or just trying to get out of a difficult spot?
Or is this a word game, the translators made a mistake, maybe the author made a mistake?
Please explain?

The Archon sinned against nature – the archon sinned against physical creation – because he is Entropy
Please show me the commandments for the beast that this archon violated

So explain how the serpent is aram, and deceives the woman with truth (Jeff Benner again)
H6175 – עָרוּם - ‛ârûm Passive participle of H6191; cunning (usually in a bad sense): - crafty, prudent, subtil.
H6191 – עָרַם - ‛âram - A primitive root; properly to be (or make) bare; but used only in the derived sense (through the idea perhaps of smoothness) bo be cunning (usually in a bad sense): - X very, beware, take crafty [counsel], be prudent, deal subtilly.

in my view, the aram creature sins,
Why do you teach it a sin to be intelligent?
Why do you teach that using the truth is a sin
-----------------

D"No created being ever changed its form or function against God Will
R" really explain why 200 angels sinned than? A change in function....
NOPE – their function = (yester ra) they do as much as they can from the unseen realm
On the ground – as biological creatures – they (yester ra) as much as they could
LUST – DESIRE – all world – worldly – (yester ra)
----------------

D"The POINT – NOT a struggle for God – not a hardship for God – nothing more than an INCONVIENCE
R" Do we even have the same GOD?
IF you teach that your satan can successfully war against God and force God to react – change – struggle
Then we do have different gods
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = omnipotent
---------------------

God waited 400 years for a race of humans to finish choosing God or not choosing God, and you make sinning by any creature a mere inconvenience?
ABSOLUTE NONSENSE

Gen 15:13 Then He said to Abram, “Know for certain that your seed will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and they will be enslaved and oppressed 400 years.
Gen 15:16 Then in the fourth generation they will return here—for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

God waited 400 years for the INIQUITY OF THE AMORITES TO COMPLETE
The inbreeding of the Nephilim with those 7 tribes = Rephiem
-----------------------

1) You have God asking an angel to be a prosecutor for human sinning's.
How on earth this is possible for even an angel to achieve,
So – you teach that angels are dysfunctional – unable to perform their duties
You respect for the heaven is obvious

2) You have a chief ARAM creature termed serpent/beast/dragon. Is this creature also termed Shedim? How come it exists before Gen 6?
Entropy is inherent to / a by-product of physical creation – appeared during creation
Rev 12-3-4 + John 1:3 + Col 1:16 + Rev 4:11 + Pro 16:4

Question: How can a creature be especially created to tempt humans to sin?
100% yester ra will not do this, it's only a thing to multiple and survive, with instinct.

You are so proud of your orchard
Locus – go forth and multiply – and decimate your orchard
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

Virus – go forth and multiply
Virus – cause death and destruction along the way
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

How much money and time do you have invested in your electronics?
A raccoon or a family of mice could cost you $$$$$$ in damage
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

Another man – comes to your home – kills your child – steals your money
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

Please explain why this is NOT just the WORLD
Please explain why any of this requires a god of evil?
-------------------------

To tempt humans to sin, you would have to have a mind capable of thinking weirdly
All you need to do is piss man off – make him mad – ruin his plans – make him sick
Man’s own (yester ra) chooses to sin all on its own

Than you have no universal laws to govern the living or any being, including God,
Your teaching that God must obey the 10 Commandments is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE
NOT only does God Kill – but he commands man to kill – to facilitate God’s Will on earth

www.cgi.org/twelve-things-god-cannot-do
TWELVE THINGS GOD CANNOT DO

1. GOD CANNOT LIE.
2. GOD CANNOT CHANGE.
3. GOD CANNOT BREAK A PROMISE.
4. GOD’S INTENT AND POWER CANNOT BE STOPPED.
5. GOD’S WORD CANNOT BE BROKEN.
6. GOD’S LAW CANNOT BE ANNULLED.
7. GOD CANNOT STAND SIN.
8. GOD CANNOT DESPISE A BROKEN AND CONTRITE HEART.
9. GOD CANNOT BE PLEASED WITHOUT FAITH.
10. GOD’S CHURCH CANNOT BE DESTROYED.
11. GOD CANNOT BE WORSHIPPED TOO MUCH FOR WHO AND WHAT HE IS.
12. AND FINALLY, GOD CANNOT STOP LOVING YOU.
------------------------------

3) you have only 200 sinning angels. How they are allowed to change function I don't know? Your views are weird.
Did these angels choose to be sinning angels Dave? Y/N ?
Their crime was – to reproduce out of their kind
As unseen archon they expressed (yester ra) desire / lust for the world as best they could
Once they took on mortal form (yester ra) lust / desire for the world was expressed
YES – these 200 or so – broke the commandment to reproduce only after their own kind
As a reward – they are locked away in chain in a prison awaiting judgment day
----------------

Dave suggests mankind sinned first, and the angels sinned only later in Gen 6.
So explain the aram creature in Gen 2? Was it sinless or sinning?
DUH – the archon were created at the time of physical creation – because entropy is inherent to / a by-product of physical creation

Why do you MOCK the New Testament
YES – SIN entered the WORLD through Eve –
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.

Does this scripture say sin entered the world through the archon / satan / or the beast – NO

Why do you MOCK the New Testament
Did thing happened before Gen 3 – YES – but there was no LAW to trasnsgress
Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.

Please show me the Commandment given to the Beast – scripture says
Go forth be fruitful and multiply – and reproduce after their own kind

[Deleted]

D"The Archon sinned against nature – the archon sinned against physical creation –
because he is Entropy
Please show me the commandments for the beast that this archon violated
R" Dave you play inconsistent word games

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

DOesn't this verse mean anything to you ?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the chief Shedim; for the chief SHedim sinneth from the beginning.

Can't you read Scritpture plainly?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the chief Archon, for the chief Archon sinneth from the beginning.

In fact John writes plainly and you ignore his message

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the serpent; for the serpent sinneth from the beginning.

Your Gnostic writings say this,

You say God did not create sinning creatures to be sinning immediately

Therefore the sinning of the creatures comes about because they choose to be sinning.

D"Why do you teach it a sin to be intelligent?
Why do you teach that using the truth is a sin
R" The aram serpent is intelligent, and able to twist truth to deceive others, making them sin.

I quote your meaning "cunning (usually in a bad sense):"




RP" R" really explain why 200 angels sinned than? A change in function....

D" NOPE – their function = (yester ra) they do as much as they can from the unseen realm
On the ground – as biological creatures – they (yester ra) as much as they could
LUST – DESIRE – all world – worldly – (yester ra)


R" What is this answer supposed to mean Dave? The angels sinned all 200 of them sinned, but you somehow agree the angels sinned, but that they did not choose to sin, so they didn't really sin like humans sin. Really Dave, what kind of word games do you play?

Are you saying if I place myself in a biological world as an angel I allow the Yester RA to become the sinning agent? No Dave, you chose to place yourself in the biological world, and thus your cognitive brain, that reasoning part of you, made a conscious decision to break relationship with God (a change of function) and thus the angels sinned. But you do not agree with me. Why is this?


-------------------


D"IF you teach that your satan can successfully war against God and force God to react – change – struggle
Then we do have different gods


RP" God waited 400 years for a race of humans to finish choosing God or not choosing God, and you make sinning by any creature a mere inconvenience?

D" ABSOLUTE NONSENSE
Gen 15:16 Then in the fourth generation they will return here—for the iniquity "avon" (guilt) of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
God waited 400 years for the INIQUITY OF THE AMORITES TO COMPLETE
The inbreeding of the Nephilim with those 7 tribes = Rephiem


R" No Dave, you have a god different to mine, waiting 400 years for the sinning to continue to make the horrible demi-god shedim for the Hebrew people to kill and wipe out. What kind of loving GOD is this you follow?

The Hebrew word here is "guilt" the shame we receive from sinning. Why is GOD waiting 400 years is because He is watching for the guilty to repent. Not to continue until their sinning is full.

SO your heavenly Father goes out every day to see for the prodigal son returning hoping his sinning is full, running out of money, so he comes to his senses? Or does the Father go out every day because he longs in love for his lost son to return back to His loving him again?

You wrote GOD waited 400 years for "sinning to be complete" " inbreeding of the Nephilim" is a real strange way to consider the love of GOD.



D"So – you teach that angels are dysfunctional – unable to perform their duties
You respect for the heaven is obvious
R" You can't even follow a line of thought. I asked you how can an angel read the sinnings in the human mind and God's mind to begin with? And you speak off a tangent.... can't you read?


D"Entropy is inherent to / a by-product of physical creation – appeared during creation
R" So Entropy is the sinning agent Dave, comes with biological creation of matter.
So you teach the Entropy is the yester ra of the mind, where as I teach the mind chooses to sin because the mind can choose (thus change function).

Why can't GOD create matter without entropy Dave?

You seem to be saying Entropy is the sin agent for any creature created by matter. You now changed the nature of sin, to (one of reason / break down relationship with God) to having the matter with inherent entropy within you. So we sin because our biological bodies are flawed.

What kind of religion do you follow? So their is no freedom. Jews teach humans are born sinless and become sinners by choosing to sin. But Dave teaches we are born flawed, so over time the biological matter forces us to become sinning. No reasoning process is required.

Pr 16:4 ¶ The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil

How does this verse teach us that entropy is the sinning agent for human sin. It doesn't.

I gave you a Hebrew word for human sin as an agent, "aven" the epi-genetic potential for sinning, but you are not born sinning, this potential within you, inherited by parents, plays a major control force over your reasoning powers. But you ignore my studies of "Aven".

D"You are so proud of your orchard
Locus – go forth and multiply – and decimate your orchard
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

Virus – go forth and multiply
Virus – cause death and destruction along the way
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

How much money and time do you have invested in your electronics?
A raccoon or a family of mice could cost you $$$$$$ in damage
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

Another man – comes to your home – kills your child – steals your money
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

Please explain why this is NOT just the WORLD
Please explain why any of this requires a god of evil?
R" All your examples Dave relate to destruction outside of the mind of the human.
Have you no examples of the destruction within the reason powers of man?
THis is where sinning really begins.

I am welding poorly today and I ask God why? You didn't pray, He replies. Oh. So I bow down and pray for His skills to empower me again today, and my welding functions improve.

Yes the mice eat the corn seeds in my garden and I feel angry inside, having replaced the lost seed costs time and money. But the sinning process come not from what I see outside, but what happens between God and me inside the mind, our reasoning process. Relationship.

I have no relationship with mice, the garden shed excludes them, and the rat poison kills them.

If you follow the archon correctly, they begin attacking your mind, within the mind by getting you to sin inside the mind, this is not the usual destruction of mice, virus, raccoon, or man, so how come the archons come into the mind and tempt the mind to sin?

No other creature does this Dave, only archons do, the battle is unseen, the creature talks inside your head, within the reasoning centre.

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

We do not wrestle creatures with flesh and blood, but against archons who come within the mind to make humans sin....


D"All you need to do is piss man off – make him mad – ruin his plans – make him sick
R" You think?

D"Your teaching that God must obey the 10 Commandments is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE
R" Why is it nonsense? How can GOD be a judge than if He doesn't follow his own laws?

D" TWELVE THINGS GOD CANNOT DO
7. GOD CANNOT STAND SIN.
R" How come GOD puts up with sinning on earth than?
-------------------


RP" Did these angels choose to be sinning angels Dave? Y/N ?

R" No Y/ N from Dave. but this instead

D"Their crime was – to reproduce out of their kind
As unseen archon they expressed
R" How can an angel be an archon? Did you goof?

I thought the archons were different creatures to angels?

D"Once they took on mortal form (yester ra) lust / desire for the world was expressed
R" Dave a sin is a choice, you are saying the alcohol made me kill the human. The judge replies but you chose to drink the alcohol didn't you? Stop making excuses Dave.

Did these angels choose to be sinning angels Dave? Y/N ?


--------------------------------------------


RP" Does this scripture say sin entered the world through the archon / satan / or the beast – ?
D" NO
D"SIN entered the WORLD through Eve –
Please show me the Commandment given to the Beast – scripture says


R" Well who sinned first than Dave?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the shedim ; for the shedim sinneth from the beginning.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the serpent; for the serpent sinneth from the beginning.

You seem to deny Scripture don't you Dave?

Explain, some creature sinned before EVE did, according to John.

Shalom

[Dave]

R" Well who sinned first than Dave?
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the shedim ; for the shedim sinneth from the beginning.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the serpent; for the serpent sinneth from the beginning.
You seem to deny Scripture don't you Dave?
Explain, some creature sinned before EVE did, according to John.

Who sinned first?
You NEED your satan to be a sinner so you have someone else to blame your sin upon
Not your fault that you sin – satan did it – satan made you do it
Your argument belong to a toddler – who did it – someone else did

Who sinned first? – Eve did
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.

Why do you dent the New testament?
Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.

Without a law given – there is no law to disobey or transgress
You keep suggesting God has a Royal Law that always existed for man and God to follow
What does Rom 5:13 mean – you argie that scripture is error
Why do you deny the New Testament
---------------------------------

D"The Archon sinned against nature – the archon sinned against physical creation –
because he is Entropy
Please show me the commandments for the beast that this archon violated
R" Dave you play inconsistent word games

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
DOesn't this verse mean anything to you ?

The Hypostasis of the Archons
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.

Rev 12:4 … Now the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that whenever she gave birth he might devour her child.

REPEAT - D"The Archon sinned against nature – the archon sinned against physical creation –
because he is Entropy
Please show me the commandments for the beast that this archon violated

Why do you deny the New testament?
Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.
Please show me the commandments for the beast that this archon violated

IGNORANCE is not a sin – it is darkness – not in the light

Gen 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 

Gen 1:3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 

Gen 1:4  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 
------------------

I quote your meaning "cunning (usually in a bad sense):"
D"Why do you teach it a sin to be intelligent?
Why do you teach that using the truth is a sin
R" The aram serpent is intelligent, and able to twist truth to deceive others, making them sin.
There is you excuse – your satan made Eve sin
Sorry Robert – the only thing the serpent did was tempt

Sin entered the world through Eve
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.

You must agree – or you just deny the New Testament
But you add – but it was satan’s fault
Why do you need another to blame your sin upon?
-------------------------

RP" R" really explain why 200 angels sinned than?
R" What is this answer supposed to mean Dave? The angels sinned all 200 of them sinned, but you somehow agree the angels sinned, but that they did not choose to sin, so they didn't really sin like humans sin. Really Dave, what kind of word games do you play?

As unseen entities – the commandment is to – go forth be fruitful and multiply
Once then took on mortal form – they went forth was fruitful and multiplied
This is the commandment to the BEAST – they could NOT help themselves
They are (yester ra) in whatever form they choose
-------------------

D"IF you teach that your satan can successfully war against God and force God to react – change – struggle
Then we do have different gods
Why do you deny the omnipotence of God
Why do you teach a weak God that must struggle against one angel
You praise you fallen angel and diminish God
------------------------------

Gen 15:16 Then in the fourth generation they will return here—for the iniquity "avon" (guilt) of the Amorites is not yet complete.”
God waited 400 years for the INIQUITY OF THE AMORITES TO COMPLETE
The inbreeding of the Nephilim with those 7 tribes = Rephiem

R" No Dave, you have a god different to mine, waiting 400 years for the sinning to continue to make the horrible demi-god shedim for the Hebrew people to kill and wipe out. What kind of loving GOD is this you follow?

Please explain why your Feel Good god orders / commands the GENOCYDE of these 7 tribes
Man, women, child, babies, pets, and livestock
---------------------------------------

The Hebrew word here is "guilt" the shame we receive from sinning. Why is GOD waiting 400 years is because He is watching for the guilty to repent. Not to continue until their sinning is full.

Stop rewriting scriptute to protect your satan
H5771 - עָווֹן עָוֹן - ‛âvôn - From H5753; perversity, that is, (moral) evil: - fault, iniquity, mischief, punishment (of iniquity), sin.
H5773 – עַוְעֶה - ‛av‛eh - From H5753; perversity:
H5753 – עָוָה - ‛âvâh - A primitive root; to crook, literally or figuratively: - do amiss, bow down, make crooked, commit iniquity, pervert, (do) perverse (-ly), trouble, X turn, do wickedly, do wrong.

You wrote GOD waited 400 years for "sinning to be complete" " inbreeding of the Nephilim" is a real strange way to consider the love of GOD.

Why were their nephilim at Jericho? – How did the Nephilim get to Jericho?
Please explain why your Feel Good god orders / commands the GENOCYDE of these 7 tribes
Man, women, child, babies, pets, and livestock
-----------------------------------

D"So – you teach that angels are dysfunctional – unable to perform their duties
You respect for the heaven is obvious
R" You can't even follow a line of thought. I asked you how can an angel read the sinnings in the human mind .... can't you read?
REPEAT – why do you teach that angels are dysfunctional?
Why is your only solution is to limit the heaven – deny the heaven – place limits upon God and his angels

D"Entropy is inherent to / a by-product of physical creation – appeared during creation
R" So Entropy is the sinning agent Dave, comes with biological creation of matter.
So you teach the Entropy is the yester ra of the mind,
YES entropy of the mind = you forget – you fail to remember – what you have always known

where as I teach the mind chooses to sin because the mind can choose (thus change function).
Choice is the FUNCTION of man – we are the creatures that can choose

Why can't GOD create matter without entropy Dave?
I am sure He can – and scripture says He will
Scripture also says he didn’t

Isa 45:5 I am Adonai—there is no other. Besides Me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known Me,
Isa 45:6 so they may know, from the rising to the setting of the sun, that there is no one besides Me. I am Adonai—there is no other.
Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things.
-------------

D"You are so proud of your orchard
Locus – go forth and multiply – and decimate your orchard
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

Virus – go forth and multiply
Virus – cause death and destruction along the way
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

How much money and time do you have invested in your electronics?
A raccoon or a family of mice could cost you $$$$$$ in damage
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

Another man – comes to your home – kills your child – steals your money
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?

Please explain why this is NOT just the WORLD
Please explain why any of this requires a god of evil?
R" All your examples Dave relate to destruction outside of the mind of the human.
Have you no examples of the destruction within the reason powers of man?
THis is where sinning really begins.

Every example requires a choice by you to praise God or curse creation
Another man – comes to your home – kills your child – steals your money
Please explain – how this causes you to praise God?
Or do you want revenge – you want to punish – you are full of anger – you hate
Do you need a god of evil to feel you own (yester ra)?

Yes the mice eat the corn seeds in my garden and I feel angry inside, having replaced the lost seed costs time and money. But the sinning process come not from what I see outside, but what happens between God and me inside the mind, our reasoning process. Relationship.
REPEAT - Yes the mice eat the corn seeds in my garden and I feel angry inside,

If you follow the archon correctly, they begin attacking your mind, within the mind by getting you to sin inside the mind, this is not the usual destruction of mice, virus, raccoon, or man, so how come the archons come into the mind and tempt the mind to sin?
Why do you want to KILL and POISON God’s creation?
I have no relationship with mice, (denial) the garden shed excludes them, (why do you need the enclosure?) and the rat poison kills them. (but you have no relationship with them?)
Sounds to me as if your real struggle is against the WORLD – and thing of this world that cause you entropy

No other creature does this Dave, only archons do, the battle is unseen, the creature talks inside your head, within the reasoning centre.
REPEAT - Yes the mice eat the corn seeds in my garden and I feel angry inside,
Are you admitting possession by your satan?
Did satan come to you in your dreams to instruct you how to be angry at the mice

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

We do not wrestle creatures with flesh and blood, but against archons who come within the mind to make humans sin....

YET – in your struggle against the flesh and blood of nature (mice)
You are selfish – greedy – unwilling to share
You are angry and build defenses and resort to killing anything that is hungry – other species that eat your poison – the scavengers and birds that eat your poisoned mice

D"All you need to do is piss man off – make him mad – ruin his plans – make him sick
R" You think?
REPEAT - Yes the mice eat the corn seeds in my garden and I feel angry inside,
-------------

D"Your teaching that God must obey the 10 Commandments is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE
R" Why is it nonsense? How can GOD be a judge than if He doesn't follow his own laws?
Fact - God kills and orders / commands man to kill in His name
Repeat - D"Your teaching that God must obey the 10 Commandments is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE
-------------------

R" How can an angel be an archon? Did you goof?
I thought the archons were different creatures to angels?
You already know the answer –
Angelos = messenger – no more no less
God has them – the disciples had them – and the Chief Archon has them

[Deleted]

Greetings Dave

D"Who sinned first?
You NEED your satan to be a sinner so you have someone else to blame your sin upon
R" Amazing how Dave ignores yet another Scripture verse.

Well who sinned first than Dave?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the shedim ; for the shedim sinneth from the beginning.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the serpent; for the serpent sinneth from the beginning.
You seem to deny Scripture don't you Dave?

Explain, some creature sinned before EVE did, according to John.

Dave chooses NOT to answer the question. Because you can't.

D" Who sinned first? – Eve did
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.
R" No Dave, this verse just says Eve sinned, and a sin-offering process for solving her sin problem came into human experience because God was kind and gracious, AFTER Eve and Adam sinned. It says nothing about the fact somebody else sinned first, a different creature. And Dave wants all the readers to ignore the verse as well.

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the shedim ; for the shedim sinneth from the beginning.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the serpent; for the serpent sinneth from the beginning.
You seem to deny Scripture don't you Dave?

John says the devil/shedim/serpent sinned from the beginning, long before a human even existed.
Do you have a problem understanding what beginning means?




D"Why do you dent the New testament?
Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.

R" This refers to ceremonial law, not moral law. Sin can only be taken into account if there is ceremonial law. The moral law is different. The moral law simply condemns the creature immediately once they sin and forever, they are to experience non-existence.

Question: When an angel sinned first, why did that angel experience immediate non-existence when he sinned? Breaking the moral laws also?

Answer: Because God is kind and gracious, and since sin occurred once, God wanted all the non-sinning creatures to experience God as love, even when sinning exists.

D"Without a law given – there is no law to disobey or transgress
You keep suggesting God has a Royal Law that always existed for man and God to follow
R" If there were no laws, nothing could exist in functions, defined by logic, reason and balance. God had to create laws for everything, physical laws, chemical laws, biological laws, emotional laws, spiritual laws and moral laws. Such laws exist for eternity because GOD is a law maker, and cannot ever become a law breaker. God has to live by His own laws, but is not always subject to His own laws, sometimes God can function above His natural laws, in what we term a miracle. God also loves all the time, thus cannot break any one of the moral laws.


D"What does Rom 5:13 mean – you argie that scripture is error
Why do you deny the New Testament


R" Ro 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

First to read Scripture written in Greek we should translate the Greek back to the original Hebrew, so our minds receive less stammering, and more understanding.

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue (Greek) will he speak to this people.

So we have a problem with Greek hamartia, and hamartano; because in Hebrew there is chata, and chataah; both words are spelled nearly the same, with slightly different meanings.

Nomos, from which we get torah, means "teaching".
Hamartia, from which we get chataah, means "sin-offering".

When a person misses "chata" their reasoning powers breaks relationship to God, and they "miss" reaching God by "faith", this is termed a "sin". The solution for this problem is to "confess" the "sin" unto a "sin-bearer" called Jesus, who "Atones" for your "sin" with a special process called the "sin-offering". The teachings for dealing with sin, using the "sin-offering" was not given to mankind, because no sinning by man had ever occurred, yet the process of forgiving mankind should mischief every happen was established long before any sinning by any creature ever occurred.

So the verse is saying:-

Ro 5:13 (For until the teachings sin-offering was in the world: but sin-offering is not "taken into account" when there is no teachings (about dealing with sin).

Jesus taught Adam and Eve, the "sin-offering" process over time as types so they could be ever mindful of the impact of sin, and the ugliness of sin, and the beautiful way a Saviour must die for the mischief done by the mischief maker to the biological bodies of Adam and Eve, after they sinned.
-------------------------




DP "The Archon sinned against nature – the archon sinned against physical creation –
because he is Entropy
Please show me the commandments for the beast that this archon violated
R" Dave you play inconsistent word games
D"REPEAT - D"The Archon sinned against nature – the archon sinned against physical creation –
because he is Entropy
R" SO Dave argues the angel shedim never really sinned. Because the angel chose to enter into the physical world with entropy in it, this entropy caused the angel to become sinful, but the angel did not choose to break any moral laws intentionally?

As I said Dave, you play inconsistent word games.

Didn't the angel choose to enter the world with entropy? And God creating entropy in the first place makes GOD guilty of forming sinful conditions in the first place, so you you are saying GOD created a sinful world, as well as a flawed world. And that some angel decided to enter this world, became sinful, but this is not sinning, as the angel did not choose to break any of the moral laws.

As I said Dave, you play inconsistent word games.

And you didn't discuss or explain yourself. Twice now you refuse to answer the questions I pose to you.


D"There is you excuse – your satan made Eve sin
Sorry Robert – the only thing the serpent did was tempt


R" As I said Dave, you play inconsistent word games.

Suppose Dave is driving his car and a little bird speaks in your ear, driving into a tree is fun Dave, try it. Go on, it would great to spend time experiencing this thrill.

Question: Is tempting a human to do something dysfunctional , a dysfunctional thing to do to that human?
Of course it is.

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Is this another verse that Dave ignores as well?

So running off the road is lovely?
Seeking a thrill is honest?
Seeking potential car accident is true?
Telling a person to drive off the road is a good report?
Getting a death experience has praise in it?

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil;

I see nowhere where tempting a human can even be allowed in the Scriptures Dave....

So how come this creature is doing these dysfunctional things? DUH must be dysfunctional.

Notice how Jesus describes this so called creature:

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Yet Dave says this creature is not sinning, and it allowed to tempt humans to sin, but does not sin while tempting humans to sin. Come on Dave, get real.

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
Something wrong with your reading of Scripture.

------------------------------------



RP" R" What is this answer supposed to mean Dave? The angels sinned all 200 of them sinned, but you somehow agree the angels sinned, but that they did not choose to sin, so they didn't really sin like humans sin. Really Dave, what kind of word games do you play?

D" As unseen entities – the commandment is to – go forth be fruitful and multiply
Once then took on mortal form – they went forth was fruitful and multiplied
This is the commandment to the BEAST – they could NOT help themselves
They are (yester ra) in whatever form they choose


R" So Dave's answer is the angels decided to enter a physical world, and get covered with entropy and the entropy make them sinful, but the angels themselves did not sin, in having sex with humans, and becoming angel-shedim in the process.

Well if they didn't choose to sin, how come God chained them up for their sinning than?

You make excuses for sinning Dave. So I drank some alcohol and after a while the alcohol made me sinning and I raped some woman, how am I to blame, the alcohol did it, not me choosing to rape her?
God you made the alcohol have those properties to the angel mind didn't you, so I am not to blame, you are?
Well God would say why did you choose to drink it than? Why did you choose to enter the physical world than?

Dave loves to play word games.

D"Why do you deny the omnipotence of God
Why do you teach a weak God that must struggle against one angel
You praise you fallen angel and diminish God
R" I don't deny the omnipotence of God.
I also see GOD is more powerful than the sinner is.
Neither do I praise the angel for sinning. Are you dull?

The fact is Dave, some angels decided to sin, and they sinned first. John says so. Ezekiel says so. Jude says so.
But Dave denies these accounts in the Bible.

---------------------


D" Why were their nephilim at Jericho? – How did the Nephilim get to Jericho?
Please explain why your Feel Good god orders / commands the GENOCYDE of these 7 tribes
Man, women, child, babies, pets, and livestock

R" The word "nephilim" means "giant" and Adam and Eve were large humans naturally, with sinning human height has been decreasing over time. In the past all the creatures were larger, bigger and more larger. Today the animals are smaller because of sinning/ entropy affect.

Your entropy thing only came in when GOD curses the ground and cursed all God made as a result. Everything is wearing down because of Adam's sin.

I do not buy into your "nephilim" argument, we have other more natural answers, that you choose to ignore also.
-----------------------


DP"So – you teach that angels are dysfunctional – unable to perform their duties
You respect for the heaven is obvious
RP" You can't even follow a line of thought. I asked you how can an angel read the sinnings in the human mind .... can't you read?
D" REPEAT – why do you teach that angels are dysfunctional?
Why is your only solution is to limit the heaven – deny the heaven – place limits upon God and his angels


R" OH so you think when GOD asks the angel to become a prosecuting angel, he changed the function of the angel and thus gave the angel the ability to read the minds of humans and the mind of God?

And the purpose of this is to help who? It doesn't help God, He knows all things already.

How does it help other creatures?

It doesn't help the human who sinned. Should all sinnings be uncovered? Scripture says no.


Sometimes Dave you are so way off track with your silly ideas/ they make no logical sense. Love covers a multitude of sins, not uncovers all your sins.

Creating a prosecuting angel would immediately demonstrate a God who no longer loves humans.


D"Choice is the FUNCTION of man – we are the creatures that can choose
R" Every creature has this ability to choose Dave, even the angels, even the lowly bison.

youtu.be/dHh9OHMEcOg

A 3 minute video how one animal chooses to love, makes a choice and sticks with that choice.

All creatures of higher life forms have this ability Dave.

D"I am sure He can – and scripture says He will
Scripture also says he didn’t
R" Even when God declared creation "very good" Dave still thinks creating a flawed world with sinful propensities in it, is "Very good". Get real Dave and drop your silly ideas.


D"Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things.
R" Yes, but only after sinning comes, you ignore the verse context, that GOD created all things perfect sinless and functional in the first place. How is darkness created in the first place, by removing the light process. When does this happen, AFTER the creature chooses to SIN.

But Dave ignores this and has a whole brand new religion that says GOD created a flawed world in the first place, BEFORE any sinning took place, so much for your Gnostic view, it's totally false and wrong.

D"YET – in your struggle against the flesh and blood of nature (mice)
You are selfish – greedy – unwilling to share
You are angry and build defenses and resort to killing anything that is hungry – other species that eat your poison – the scavengers and birds that eat your poisoned mice
R" How strange are you. So I am greedy am I? Before the netting went over the entire orchard of trees a little bird came every day to eat a fruit, there was only 2 left, and my tomato, there was 1 left. Of all the fruit I had the bird ate 9 of them and I got 6 of them. Of all the tomatoes, I got 3 of them and the bird ate the others (all 4) (winter time- not time for tomato fruit).

With the corn, I planted 6 packets of seed, and lost 4 packets of seed, had to replant them all again, with another 4 packets of seed. That is a 60% loss in the first plantings of corn due to little mice.

The bird ate over 80% of my fruit.

Sure I don't mind animals eating their share. If you feed wild birds grain, which I have done over the years, you end up with more wild life eating your grain. Same with mice. It's becomes a local problem.

The kindest solution is to net and screen the entire garden from mice and birds. So I did. It has metal walls all round and netting over the top. Not my fault if mice choose to enter under the metal walls and invade the protective enclosure, but some did.

I have tried in my kindness to come up with a simple effective solution, and thus exclude the world of predators with a physical barrier. I also have fruit fly netting over my peach trees for the same reason.
---------------------------


RP" How can an angel be an archon? Did you goof?
I thought the archons were different creatures to angels?
D" You already know the answer –
Angelos = messenger – no more no less
God has them – the disciples had them – and the Chief Archon has them
R" SO your archons are really sinning angels Dave?
Why did you mislead me in the beginning on this forum?

You taught me that archons were different to angels, now you teach the archon is a angel, why invent a new term when the old term is fine? 

SO you have angels that tempt humans to sin, but they do not sin themselves in tempting humans to sin? Are you OK?

Why angels possess humans, and are termed reptile people, eat and drink human blood, terrible things these angels do, and yet not one of those angels sin's by choosing to sin? Are you OK Dave?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the shedim ; for the shedim sinneth from the beginning.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the serpent; for the serpent sinneth from the beginning.
You seem to deny Scripture don't you Dave?

John says the devil/shedim/serpent sinned from the beginning, long before a human even existed.
Seems to me the sinning angels are here sinning all the time, getting as many humans to sin with them.

But Dave ignores this, and denies it, the angel-shedim do not sin, Dave says, they can't help it, they have entropy inside them, yester ra, so cannot help do what they do.

Really Dave, stop playing word games and get real.

[Dave]

D"Who sinned first?
You NEED your satan to be a sinner so you have someone else to blame your sin upon
R" Amazing how Dave ignores yet another Scripture verse.

Well who sinned first than Dave?
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
You seem to deny Scripture don't you Dave?

The Hypostasis of the Archons
Opening his eyes, he saw a vast quantity of matter without limit; and he became arrogant, saying, "It is I who am God, and there is none other apart from me". When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" – which is, 'god of the blind'.

What does - he sinned against the entirety – mean
Show me the commandment this archon disobeyed or transgressed
5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

THE ARCHON SINNED AGAINST THE ENTIRITY – not God
How do you sin against a bird or a reptile?

R" you can sin against a bird or dog by killing the animal, abusing and hurting it.
Hurting a creature is the same as hurting God Himself, Duh. Apple of his eye.
MORE OF ROBERT’S CIRCULAR REASONING
God kills an entire plant worth of people (Gen 8)
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah
God commanded the genocide of the 7 tribes of Amorite
God will destroy how many in the eventual Lake of Fire
WHY DO YOU TEACH GOD SINS AGAINST MAN?

D"What does - he sinned against the entirety – mean
Show me the commandment this archon disobeyed or transgressed
R" Don't care Dave of nitpicking details
Of course you don’t you do not need to know scripture - you have doctrine

D"THE ARCHON SINNED AGAINST THE ENTIRITY – not God
How do you sin against a bird or a reptile?
R" you can sin against a bird or dog by killing the animal, abusing and hurting it.
Hurting a creature is the same as hurting God Himself, Duh. Apple of his eye.
Why did God give meat to man as food after the flood?
Why did God command the destruction of the pets and livestock of the Amorite?

------------------

D"Why do you deny the New testament?
Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.
R" This refers to ceremonial law, not moral law
POST YOUR IMAGINARY LAWS
------------------

Question: When an angel sinned first, why did that angel experience immediate non-existence when he sinned? Breaking the moral laws also?

Answer: Because God is kind and gracious, and since sin occurred once, God wanted all the non-sinning creatures to experience God as love, even when sinning exists.

D"Without a law given – there is no law to disobey or transgress
You keep suggesting God has a Royal Law that always existed for man and God to follow
R" If there were no laws, nothing could exist in functions, defined by logic, reason and balance. God had to create laws for everything, physical laws, chemical laws, biological laws, emotional laws, spiritual laws and moral laws. Such laws exist for eternity because GOD is a law maker, and cannot ever become a law breaker. God has to live by His own laws, but is not always subject to His own laws, sometimes God can function above His natural laws, in what we term a miracle. God also loves all the time, thus cannot break any one of the moral laws.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
R" That says humans sinned, yes.

BINGO – you have taught up until now – that even God must obey the Torah
You stand by the NONSENSE that even God must obey the 10 Commandments
Now you agree that the Torah was written for man
Finally you see our own error

Which is it Robert – scripture is written for man to follow – or for God and the angels to follow

First to read Scripture written in Greek we should translate the Greek back to the original Hebrew
LEARN TO TRANSLATE INSTEAD OF YOUR WORD GAMES
Hamartia, from which we get chataah, means "sin-offering". - NO IT DOES NOT

G266 - ἁμαρτία - hamartia - From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).
G264 - ἁμαρτάνω - hamartanō - Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.

WHY DO YOU TEACH THAT SIN IS A SACRIFICE TO THE LORD - you pray to the wrong god
-------------------

DP "The Archon sinned against nature – the archon sinned against physical creation –
because he is Entropy
Please show me the commandments for the beast that this archon violated
R" Dave you play inconsistent word games
D"REPEAT - D"The Archon sinned against nature – the archon sinned against physical creation –
because he is Entropy
R" SO Dave argues the angel shedim never really sinned. Because the angel chose to enter into the physical world with entropy in it, this entropy caused the angel to become sinful, but the angel did not choose to break any moral laws intentionally?
PRINT OUT YOUR IMAGINARY MORAL LAWS THAT BEAST MUST OBEY

D"There is you excuse – your satan made Eve sin
Sorry Robert – the only thing the serpent did was tempt
---------------------

D" Why were their nephilim at Jericho? – How did the Nephilim get to Jericho?
Please explain why your Feel Good god orders / commands the GENOCYDE of these 7 tribes
Man, women, child, babies, pets, and livestock

R" The word "nephilim" means "giant" and Adam and Eve were large humans naturally
DENIAL

I do not buy into your "nephilim" argument, we have other more natural answers, that you choose to ignore also.
PRINT OUT YOUR IMAGINARY LAWS THAT BEAST MUST OBEY
-----------------------

RP" How can an angel be an archon? Did you goof?
I thought the archons were different creatures to angels?
D" You already know the answer –
Angelos = messenger – no more no less
God has them – the disciples had them – and the Chief Archon has them
R" SO your archons are really sinning angels Dave?
Why did you mislead me in the beginning on this forum?

You taught me that archons were different to angels, now you teach the archon is a angel, why invent a new term when the old term is fine?
LIAR – MISSREPRESENTER – BEARER OF FALSE WITNESS
I’m done with you - post an intelligent argument or go away

[Deleted]

D"What does - he sinned against the entirety – mean
Show me the commandment this archon disobeyed or transgressed
5. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. 6. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.
R" So the messengers only sinned against the earth, and never sinned against GOD?

Wow what a ARAM twist you are Dave.

Job 12:7 “But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds in the sky, and they will tell you;
Job 12:8 or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish in the sea inform you.
Job 12:9 Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this?
Job 12:10 In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind

Animals can talk and speak of God's love

PS 96: 11 Let the heavens rejoice, let the earth be glad; let the sea resound, and all that is in it.
PS 96:12 Let the fields be jubilant, and everything in them; let all the trees of the forest sing for joy.

Trees and plants can also speak of God's love

Ps 19: 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

Isaiah 43:20

20 The wild animals honor me, the jackals and the owls, because I provide water in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland, to give drink to my people, my chosen,

Ezekiel 34:2-3
2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to you shepherds of Israel who only take care of yourselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock?
3 You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock.

Man is required to care for animals and plants as much as he should care for God.

Isaiah 24:4-6

4 The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers, the heavens languish with the earth.
5 The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left.

Revelation 11:18

18 The nations were angry, and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name, both great and small— and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

If you sin against a little sparrow by killing it for sport, you have sinned against GOD, who made the sparrow, feeds the sparrow and follows the sparrow's living every day.

Stop making excuses Dave. The angels that choose to sin are evil and thus become sinning angels on earth, destroying all things by their sinning practices.


D"PRINT OUT YOUR IMAGINARY LAWS THAT BEAST MUST OBEY
R" The sinning angels are not allowed to obey and empower themselves.

Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me

This means

Ho 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

The sinning angels are their own elohiym power for living, they do not allow the true elojhiym power to be their saviour and loving source of living.

They exist using SELF. Even your Gnostic writings say this.

This function is breaking the relationship with GOD and hence a sin punishable by non-existence.
------------------



RP" RP" How can an angel be an archon? Did you goof?
I thought the archons were different creatures to angels?
D" You already know the answer –
Angelos = messenger – no more no less
R" SO you don't like the term angel? you don't like the term cherub?

Angels are cherubs Dave, and one if the cherubs sinned, thus we have sinning angels.
Ezekiel says so, Jesus in John 8 says so, and JOhn says so in 1John 3.

You deny so many scriptures now.


D"LIAR – MISSREPRESENTER – BEARER OF FALSE WITNESS

R" 
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

Well one of us must be lying, and it can't be Scripture. It reads plain.

Some angel-shedim sinning from the beginning, before a human sinned. Dave denies this verse.

Dave makes excuse, the angel took on entropy in the matter, and couldn't help it,

The angels sin only against the world and not GOD directly, so they do not morally sin.

Wow Dave you really love making excuses for these sinning messengers don't you?

How come you will not call them sinning angels? Deny the Ezekiel 28, a cherub sinned?
Funny you wanted a pre-Roman source that the shedim are devils and thus do sinning?

I gave you the Ancient Chinese logograms, they have a devil, that did four precursors to sinning written by the Yellow Emperor, and recorded in the writings. Devil secret in the garden does the 4 precursors of sinning, leading to Eve sinning. Go back and read the video yourself? Or you do wish to bag the presenter because he is not a true follower of God? Pentecostal perhaps?

Besides I do not need this evidence, I have JOhn's writing now, written before the Roman edit came along in 300 AD.

JOhn wrote in 70 to 90 AD, that "1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning." So the angel-shedim sinned from the beginning.

When is the beginning? Before creation?
Not as you say, during creation?

Ge 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created

So beginning existed first before creation, with GOD. What else existed before our creation?

Two other things also existed before creation BEGAN

Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void;

Earth was already existing, from some other previous creation

and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

Darkness over earth already existing, because sinning angels lived there already.

Ge 1:3 ¶ And God said, And than Creation begins,

D"I’m done with you - post an intelligent argument or go away
R" How about really reading the Scriptures as they plainly say, instead of making excuses and using Gnostic writings to make excuses for sin. And leave the difficult Scriptures alone ....

Shalom

[Dave]

Stop making excuses Dave. The angels that choose to sin are evil and thus become sinning angels on earth, destroying all things by their sinning practices.
They are messengers – you just want to use the angel term so it fits your Roman doctrine

D"PRINT OUT YOUR IMAGINARY LAWS THAT BEAST MUST OBEY
R" The sinning angels are not allowed to obey and empower themselves.
YET THIS IS YOUR ENTIRE TEACHING – satan empowered himself to change his entire role with creation – against God’s Will – then your satan is so empowered that he can alter God’s Plan against God’s Will – force God to change / adjust His Plan

Do you believe yourself or NOT?

Sept 18, 2022 14:43:59 GMT -5 @robertt said:

… now you teach the archon is a angel, why invent a new term when the old term is fine?

D"LIAR – MISSREPRESENTER – BEARER OF FALSE WITNESS
Dave calls Robert out for “A”
Robert responds with “B” – to avoid taking responsibility for his own false witness
R" - 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
Well one of us must be lying, and it can't be Scripture. It reads plain.