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Post by Dave on Aug 22, 2022 21:03:47 GMT -5
Chata does not mean "transgression of the moral law" it means "missing the faith opportunities to have Jesus empower you" SIN = disobeying God – God’s commandments – or transgressing those commandmentssin an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law."a sin in the eyes of God" (google) What is God's definition of sin? We believe that sin is the willful transgression of the known law of God, and that such sin condemns a soul to eternal punishment unless pardoned by God through repentance, confession, restitution, and believing in Jesus Christ as his personal Savior. Sin - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Sin In a religious context, sin is a transgression against divine law. Each culture has its own interpretation of what it means to commit a sin. sin | religion - Encyclopedia Britannica www.britannica.com › ... › Spirituality 6 days ago — sin, moral evil as considered from a religious standpoint. Sin is regarded in Judaism and Christianity as the deliberate and purposeful violation of the will of God. ... D"How or what is the greatest gift of love we can share with our neighbor = Jer 1:5 Generate FRUIT R" Yes, but to make fruit, one has to soak up water, and Sonlight and experience wilting on a daily basis, than comes fruit. What a bunch of religious mumbo jumbo D"The Holy Spirit is NOT Catholic Mary or a Catholic Saint acting as an intercessorThe Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God The Holy Spirit is God Christ is the image of God The Holy Spirit is Christ in Spirit TRINITYR" Hmm? You have a weird way of looking at things. The Ruwach is a medium Dave, something that carries something.Absolutely correctJoh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In the beginning was the Word In the beginning was the word
The THOUGHT behind the word
God the Father – no man can see
Ex 23 – the face no man can see
| the word was God
The speaker of the word
Christ – the image of God
The image of God “back” the Word was with God | The word was with God
The word went out – expanded
The Holy Spirit – went out/expnanded
The Glory of God |
The Ruwach is a medium Dave, something that carries something.God spoke – Big Bang – the Holy Spirit went out – the universe expanded – God at a distance The Holy Spirit went out - the medium / the ether / the matrix / the base E for all creation The Holy Spirit went out – the medium that sustains the ALL – tov and ra The Medium / ether / matrix = the ‘force’ or the ‘E’ (energy) at the base of all sub-atomics Gen 1:1 – God fattened Himself = creation At the sub atomic level – Judaism is pantheistic The Holy Medium conduits the Spirit of GodThe medium is the Spirit of God – God at a distanceThe Holy Medium conduits Christ's Spirit into humans who seek Jesus.The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God who is Christ------------------------ D"What sins – the ones Hebrew satan accuses us of R" No Dave, the ones the sinner confessed to, and sacrificed the pet lamb for his guilt, those confessions are transferred unto the temple mercy seat, are atoned for. Never at any stage is there need for a prosecutor... What of the sins you forget to confess – Oops Do you think they go unnoticed? Who keeps track of those sins?D"Judgment happens in a judgment setting – Christ is our advocate – Hebrew satan is our Prosecutor R" OK show me a BIble verse for this scene ? There isn't any. Except Zec 3:1-5 Except Rev 20:12-15 – who keeps the Book of Life – or keeps you out of it
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 5:57:13 GMT -5
RP" The Ruwach is a medium Dave, something that carries something.D" Absolutely correctR" Wow we agree on something D" God spoke – Big Bang – the Holy Spirit went out – the universe expanded – God at a distance The Holy Spirit went out - the medium / the ether / the matrix / the base E for all creation The Holy Spirit went out – the medium that sustains the ALL – tov and ra The Medium / ether / matrix = the ‘force’ or the ‘E’ (energy) at the base of all sub-atomicsR" correct and well said, Dave makes a discussion on the medium function of the HS too , concerning the function of a medium administrated by the HS. ------------------------------------------ BUT than.... D" Gen 1:1 – God fattened Himself = creation At the sub atomic level – Judaism is pantheisticR" Arrh no, bara means to engineer. A medium is a function of something carrying something, does not mean God is present in all matter at a sub atomic level. God is not inside the atoms, though His power sustains the atoms. Hmm too difficult to fathom. Rp" The Holy Medium conduits the Spirit of GodD" The medium is the Spirit of God – God at a distanceR" I am having trouble with your word " is". Please explain, a medium cannot carry something and also be that something it carries. RP" The Holy Medium conduits Christ's Spirit into humans who seek Jesus.D" The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God who is ChristR" I am having trouble with your word " is". Please explain, a medium cannot carry something and also be that something it carries. The Holy Spirit is not Christ, nor is the Father's Spirit. --------------------------------------------- D" What of the sins you forget to confess – Oops Do you think they go unnoticed? Who keeps track of those sins?R" Certainly not a prosecutor Dave, humans only see their sins if they have cognitive consequences. Most missing we do as sins is from not using faith. So these sins are not seen by anybody not even a prosecutor, but only God alone sees these sins. And such a Christian has not transgressed any moral law, he has only failed to do good at all opportunities. So missing daily is a sin all the same, and no prosecutor can read inside the mind, but God can. Explain the purpose of this prosecutor? Can't God alone judge fairly, and sees all things fairly ? My view of the sinning angels is to accuse humans from getting saved. Such angels hate God and hate humans being saved by God. If it wasn't for God's hedge, the sinning angels would have killed such humans a long time ago. David sinned once and was asked by a prophet what consequence he wanted, David chose to fall into the mercy of a fair God. Not fall into human hands, or some prosecutor. D" Except Zec 3:1-5 R" HIgh Priest, saving humans, got nothing to do with judgement or court cases. D" Except Rev 20:12-15 R" Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. R" No mention of Satan or any prosecutor Dave? SO why did you post these verses if they do not answer my questions about having a prosecutor? This judgement is for wicked people, not righteous people. Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: The righteous judge the wicked while they are in the grave...even sinning angels... So you don't have any Bible verses speaking about a prosecutor in a court? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 23, 2022 7:14:24 GMT -5
D"God spoke – Big Bang – the Holy Spirit went out – the universe expanded – God at a distance The Holy Spirit went out - the medium / the ether / the matrix / the base E for all creation The Holy Spirit went out – the medium that sustains the ALL – tov and ra The Medium / ether / matrix = the ‘force’ or the ‘E’ (energy) at the base of all sub-atomics R" correct and well said, Dave makes a discussion on the medium function of the HS too , concerning the function of a medium administrated by the HS. This is also multidimensionalismGod (singularity – that cannot be located – that is omnipotent and omniscient) 1D Expanded into omnipresence 2D – the medium / ether / matrix – God at distance - Spirit Upon which (WOMB) the 3D is formed – image - Christ ------------------------------------------ BUT than.... D"Gen 1:1 – God fattened Himself = creation At the sub atomic level – Judaism is pantheistic R" Arrh no, bara means to engineer. Engineered out of what – something did not come from nothing(God) Energy cannot be created or destroyed – it can only be translated (Spirit) or transmuted (Christ)A medium is a function of something carrying something, does not mean God is present in all matter at a sub atomic level. God is not inside the atoms, though His power sustains the atoms. Hmm too difficult to fathom. God is omnipresent – stop teaching there are places you can hide from GodRp" The Holy Medium conduits the Spirit of God D" The medium is the Spirit of God – God at a distance R" I am having trouble with your word "is". Please explain, a medium cannot carry something and also be that something it carries. Robert 8th grade Ellen White scienceWater is a medium – but it cannot be water? Electricity is a medium – but it cannot be electricity? Air is a medium – but it cannot be air? Space is a medium - but it cannot be space Poetry is a medium - but it cannot be poetry The written word is a medium - but it cannot be the written word Excuse me if I find your doctrines childishRP" The Holy Medium conduits Christ's Spirit into humans who seek Jesus. D" The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God who is Christ R" I am having trouble with your word "is". Please explain, a medium cannot carry something and also be that something it carries. Intelligence is a medium – but it cannot be intelligent – EVIDENTLY NOT! The Holy Spirit is not Christ, nor is the Father's Spirit. Deny away Robert – no one is forcing you to believe – just keep worshiping biology--------------------------------------------- D"What of the sins you forget to confess – Oops Do you think they go unnoticed? Who keeps track of those sins? R" Certainly not a prosecutor Dave Deny away Robert – no one is forcing you to believeExplain the purpose of this prosecutor? Can't God alone judge fairly, and sees all things fairly ?(google) The prosecutor should seek to protect the innocent and convict the guilty, (google) What is the purpose of prosecutors? At any level, the primary role of the prosecutor is to "investigate and prosecute impartially" criminal suspects on behalf of the People. GOD(google) What is the role of the prosecutor quizlet? A prosecutor is a lawyer. The legal representative of the people of a city, county or state. They have the authority to bring charges, (google) What are the three functions of a prosecutor? Prosecutors are required to apply the law to criminal cases, protect the rights of the persons involved in criminal proceedings, GOD respect human dignity and fundamental rights, and ensure public security. prosecutor | Definition, Role, & Facts - Encyclopedia Britannica www.britannica.com › topic › prosecutor prosecutor, government official charged with bringing defendants in criminal cases to justice in the name of the state. KINGDOM OF GODMy view of the sinning angels is to accuse humans from getting saved.Sinning Angels = the bane elohiym of Gen 6 – locked away in chains Jude 1:6 + 2 Peter 2:4The Beast of Revelation is NOT an angel – he is the serpent – a biological creature The archon are not angels – nor have ever been angels – they were created by Him for HimSuch angels hate God and hate humans being saved by God. 23+49 verses – lets go – show me one verse where your satan disobeys God In every verse – your satan opposes man as an angel of the Lord Precept upon precept, line upon line – your two word doctrine of Ezk 28 does not stand If it wasn't for God's hedge, the sinning angels would have killed such humans a long time ago. Corrupted Humans - Agreed - as in the Flood of NoahBut then there was a contest reset and the rules changed – man and archon were separated – or the ratio of archon to man changed Only 10% of the archon remained and the contaminated gene pool of Rephiem was started D"Except Zec 3:1-5 R" HIgh Priest, saving humans, got nothing to do with judgement or court cases. FANTASY D"Except Rev 20:12-15 R" No mention of Satan or any prosecutor Dave? SO why did you post these verses if they do not answer my questions about having a prosecutor? Someone – erased your name from the Book of LifePretend Judgment does not consider pros and cons Pretend that judgment is not about tov and ra Pretend judgment doesn’t consider the good along with the bad This judgement is for wicked people, not righteous people.Pretend all you want Robert – I accept scripture2Co 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and at home with the Lord. Pretend there is no spirit – or LIFE outside of the body2Co 5:9 So whether at home or absent, we make it our aim to be pleasing to Him. 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad. We will ALL stand for judgmentSo you don't have any Bible verses speaking about a prosecutor in a court?Pretend away Robert – fight against scripture – fight against the reality of the spirit and the spiritual – fight against the reality of the archon – fight against the idea of an intelligent designKeep up your good fight
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 16:12:41 GMT -5
D" Engineered out of what – something did not come from nothingR" correct. Hab 3:4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power. "c hebyown" used only once, here. Meaning? unknown. SO something "chebyown" came out of His hands. Hence "engineered". D" God is omnipresent – stop teaching there are places you can hide from GodR" correct, no place you can technically hide, but there are physically places where God is reduced to little in power that umbra shadows appear.... Pride and SIN blocks the presence of GOD, thus creating umbra shadows, where little of GOD's power exists. This does not happen naturally as you claim, you require sin and relationship to GOD from a distance. Why was earth dark and void and formless? Because of sin, no other reason, not because as you claim it wasn't created. How come earth was already formless and void if earth was being created as you claim? No earth had being created already, but was formless and void, why ? because sininng angels lived there. D" Robert 8th grade Ellen White science Water is a medium – but it cannot be water? Electricity is a medium – but it cannot be electricity? Air is a medium – but it cannot be air? Space is a medium - but it cannot be space Poetry is a medium - but it cannot be poetry The written word is a medium - but it cannot be the written word Excuse me if I find your doctrines childishR" Hmm? Water can function as media within a medium affect, but water on its own cannot be a medium. A medium requires a minimum of two media to become a medium affect. Air is a media of molecules, the medium affect is when light passes from space through the media, causing a medium affect. You cannot make a medium affect using one media, the minimum is two media, and they have to be different media too, not expressions from the same source as you claim. This is why there are two comforters, the HS and Jesus bring the power of the Father to humans. Both media have different properties that cause this medium affect, so humans who are crooked appear straight when looking into the medium process. D" Excuse me if I find your doctrines childishR" OH, you have never spend much time thinking of medium processes have you? D" Intelligence is a medium – but it cannot be intelligent – EVIDENTLY NOT!R" A medium cannot relay it's own powers of intelligence and be a medium of intelligence at the same time, mediums are passive carriers of something else as a power. If the medium had the ability to be it's own carrier of power as well, than the "ra ruwach" is reference to an "evil HS as a personality" but this idea is wrong. Maybe correct in your view when God is both evil and good, but not in my view, God is only good, and evil comes from another being who is the source of sinning, not as a creator of sinning, but the first angel to have begun sinning against God, hence God termed this prince an Agent of Sin. or a Father of Lies. In fact this agent is termed the agent of death in the torah Heb 2:14 ¶ Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; So GOD termed the prince with many functions, such as the power of death, because of his sinnings against GOD. Here is a verse than of the devil directly opposing God. -------------------- RP" Explain the purpose of this prosecutor? Can't God alone judge fairly, and sees all things fairly ?D" (google) The prosecutor should seek to protect the innocent and convict the guilty,R" Is that it? you give me human examples of prosecutor? Where is the Bible examples? Must be none hey? God judges alone, He needs no helpers to help Him judge.
Is this not so? Why do you limit God? D" The Beast of Revelation is NOT an angel – he is the serpent – a biological creatureR" if that were true there should be mention of the serpents being created? But there is none, only in Gnostic writings, how strange.... D" The archon are not angels – nor have ever been angels – they were created by Him for HimR" Yes correct, Gnostics have their own writings and their own beliefs, and the Hebrew torah is different. You are welcome to follow GNostic writings, just stop blending it into Hebrew torah. D" 23+49 verses – lets go – show me one verse where your satan disobeys GodR" I did in this post Heb 2:14 ¶ Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; So GOD termed the prince with many functions, such as the power of death, because of his sinnings against GOD. Here is a verse than of the devil directly opposing God. And the reason why Jesus came to die, to oppose the work of the devil causing eternal death in humans, making the humans sin. It took one sin to bring death to all humans, the work of the devil. How is this possible? Mischief to the womb of humans, that's how. Angels could sin and return whenever they liked, but not humans, from one sin, the womb was damaged. "Jesus might destroy "the Opposer" that had the power of death, that is, the devil termed the opposer". There is your one verse where Satan disobeys God.RP" If it wasn't for God's hedge, the sinning angels would have killed such humans a long time ago.D" Corrupted Humans - Agreed - as in the Flood of NoahR" corrupted - killed --- word games Dave. No wounding, means removing the ability for humans to repent. How can a human repent, when they have death imposed upon them? Not fair. The mischief maker caused mischief. Brought death unto all humans. Why does Day of Atonement confess all the sins unto the scapegoat? Because the mischief maker caused the problem of mischief, not Eve and Adam sinning. Yes they have no excuse, they chose to sin, but what the mischief maker did, they did not choose. RP" R" HIgh Priest, saving humans, got nothing to do with judgement or court cases.D" FANTASYR" OK explain. A wicked person does not have to support God. So God does not expect anything of him either. He dies because of his sins, yes, but that is his choice. A prosecutor is not required for love that is poured out in full, nor required to limit that love... OH let me guess, the prosecutor ran after the Father running after his prodigal son, to stop the the Father's love returning to His lost son, now found. Does the parable say this ? no so who is pushing fantasy? you are. D" Someone – erased your name from the Book of LifeR" you do Dave, Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 ¶ But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. Is it necessary to record sins in a book? Yes, it helps others get interested in the SIN problem, but it does not help GOD in his love or limit his love. God does not limit His love because you sin, you do. And a prosecutor is only limiting God loving you, and God has no limits to His loving. Only you do, you are not fire proof and God's love is a simile of fire. D" Pretend that judgment is not about tov and raR" Judgement is only about faith, did you speak my words and let my words grow in you or not? Faith. Not as you claim doing good or bad. D" Pretend judgment doesn’t consider the good along with the badR" No it doesn't. God looks for faith on the earth, not those who have sins. When the prodigal returned did the Father look up his sins? OR was the Father in love with the Son who returned to Him in love? The love responded finally.... D"2Co 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.R" Why did you quote this? It's my view, not your view? D"2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and at home with the Lord. Pretend there is no spirit – or LIFE outside of the bodyR" I see, you twist the context of faith into a spirit body... when you walk by faith Dave, you are not following your body and your bodies experience. Faith is getting connected to God again, even though the HS lives in us keeping us alive and connected, we are not truly connected and alive until we have faith. The body experience is useless because of sin, so by faith we get a new connection. Does this make sense to you? D"2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad.
We will ALL stand for judgmentR" You forget the verse " For we walk by faith," God only looks to see if you have faith, everything else depends upon this "walk by faith". And yes this is technically a judgement, but not about sins...though this is implied I guess. When I come to Jesus, does the prosecutor stop me? He tries to because the prosecutor wants us dead. Sinning allows His kingdom to continue. When I come to Jesus, does the prosecutor stop my faith? When I come to Jesus, does the prosecutor stop my free will? When I come to Jesus, does the prosecutor stop me serving God out of love? No, all the Opposer does is accuse me of sin, in some fain effort to stop GOD loving me fully. But God answers the sinning angels and says this humans has faith despite the sins as you say, so I rebuke your intentions. You call this a judgement court process? hardly. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 24, 2022 10:28:50 GMT -5
Robert – I must confess – I no longer take you seriously You are not here to study – you just choose to oppose me and scripture because you think it qute Enjoy your game – demonstrate to God and everyone the respect toy have for the word of God Hab 3:4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power. SO something "chebyown" came out of His hands. Hence "engineered". Roberts word game What came out of His hands = H7161 – קֶרֶן – qeren - From H7160; a horn (as projecting); by implication a flask, cornet; by resemblance an elephant’s tooth (that is, ivory), a corner (of the altar), a peak (of a mountain), a ray (of light); figuratively power: - X hill, horn. AND that - a ray (of light); figuratively power: - was concealed / hidden / a mysteryH2253 – חֶבְיוֹן - chebyôn - From H2247; a concealment: - hiding. You misread the scripture in English – then pollute it in Hebrew---------------------------- D"God is omnipresent – stop teaching there are places you can hide from God R" correct, no place you can technically hide, but there are physically places where God is reduced to little in power that umbra shadows appear.... REJECTED – what about omnipresence and omnipotent don’t you understandPride and SIN blocks the presence of GOD, thus creating umbra shadows, where little of GOD's power exists. REJECTED – you can be a prideful as you want – God can reach down and throw in into the belly of a fish if He wants - Jonah God can reach down and pull you into heaven for a talk – PaulWhy was earth dark and void and formless? Because of sin, no other reason, not because as you claim it wasn't created. How come earth was already formless and void if earth was being created as you claim? No earth had being created already, but was formless and void, why ? because sininng angels lived there. What a bunch of satanic Bull ShitGen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.H776 – אֶרֶץ - 'erets - From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world. DIRT – PHYSICAL CREATION – corporeal matterGen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; PLANET EARTHThis is why there are two comforters, the HS and Jesus CHRIST bring the power of the Father to humans.TRINITY - One God - two hands - Left Hand (feminine) + Right Hand (masculine) TRINITY – One God – two hands – spirit and image TRINITY – One God – two hands – Holy Spirit and ChristBoth media have different properties -DUHD"Intelligence is a medium – but it cannot be intelligent – EVIDENTLY NOT! R" A medium cannot relay it's own powers of intelligence It was an insult – you do not even understand EnglishHeb 2:14 ¶ Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; So GOD termed the prince with many functions, such as the power of death, because of his sinnings against GOD.YES – If the Beast (devil) tempts you to choose world and not God = deathhe also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death,YES – God took on flesh – and died as all flesh does – to PROVE LIFE LIVESChosen NOT the WORLD – choose Godbecause of his sinnings against GOD.Here is a verse than of the devil directly opposing God. Where does this verse say this? – You just added it onto the verse to validate your doctrine-------------------- RP" Explain the purpose of this prosecutor? Can't God alone judge fairly, and sees all things fairly ? D" (google) The prosecutor should seek to protect the innocent and convict the guilty, R" Is that it? you give me human examples of prosecutor? Where is the Bible examples? Must be none hey? Zec 3:1-5 God is the Judge The angel of the Lord is standing with Joshua as an advocate And Hebrew satan – is stand at Joshua’s side as the prosecutor – accusing Joshua od sin But – God granted Joshua a Divine PardonD"Except Zec 3:1-5 RP" R" HIgh Priest, saving humans, got nothing to do with judgement or court cases. D" FANTASY R" OK explain.God is the Judge The angel of the Lord is standing with Joshua as an advocate And Hebrew satan – is stand at Joshua’s side as the prosecutor – accusing Joshua od sin But – God granted Joshua a Divine PardonWhy do you fight against ahl scripture – just to validate your satan godD"The Beast of Revelation is NOT an angel – he is the serpent – a biological creature R" if that were true there should be mention of the serpents being created? But there is none, only in Gnostic writings, how strange.... D"The archon are not angels – nor have ever been angels – they were created by Him for Him R" Yes correct, Gnostics have their own writings and their own beliefs, and the Hebrew torah is different. Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities (ARCHON), or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: You are welcome to follow GNostic writings, just stop blending it into Hebrew torah. Why do you fight against agl scripture – just to validate your satan godIt is TRUE – Rome considered James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas all to be Gnostic Why do you consider the New Testament Gospel to be GnosticD" 23+49 verses – lets go – show me one verse where your satan disobeys GodR" I did in this post Heb 2:14 - because of his sinnings against GOD. Here is a verse than of the devil directly opposing God. Where does this verse say this? – because of his sinnings against GOD. You just added it onto the verse to validate your doctrineAnd the reason why Jesus came to die, to oppose the work of the devil causing eternal death in humans, making the humans sin. It took one sin to bring death to all humans, the work of the devil. How is this possible? The serpent DID NOT FORCE EVE TO SIN – the serpent DID NOT MAKE EVE SIN She chose all on her own – as all men do = all men are sinners – just like Eve
Angels could sin and return whenever they liked WHAT – scripture please – I REJECT YOUR IDEA THAT ANGELS REPENT------------------- A prosecutor is not required for love that is poured out in full, nor required to limit that love... What does this even mean – pink elephants are not required for corn flakesAnd a prosecutor is only limiting God loving you, Hebrew satan does not limit anything – he only accuses It is the Beast that temps manD"Pretend that judgment is not about tov and ra R" Judgement is only about faith, did you speak my words and let my words grow in you or not? Faith. Not as you claim doing good or bad. Roberts word game - let my words grow in you (good) or not (bad)------------- D"2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and at home with the Lord. Pretend there is no spirit – or LIFE outside of the body R" I see, you twist the context of faith into a spirit body... Explain how you can absent from your bodywhen you walk by faith Dave, you are not following your body and your bodies experience. Explain how you can absent from your body------------------------ Faith is getting connected to God again, even though the HS lives in us keeping us alive and connected, we are not truly connected and alive until we have faith. The body experience is useless because of sin, so by faith we get a new connection. Does this make sense to you? Perfectly – you deny the spirit – you deny communion with the spirit – you deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit – all you speak of is practicing religion with your fleshD"2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad. And yes this is technically a judgement, but not about sins...though this is implied I guess. It is about Deeds – works – and FruitWhy do you fight against agl scripture – just to validate your satan godWhen I come to Jesus, does the prosecutor stop my faith? Why do you make this shit up – NO – all the prosecutor does is accuse you of your sinWhen I come to Jesus, does the prosecutor stop my free will? Why do you make this shit up – NO – all the prosecutor does is accuse you of your sinWhen I come to Jesus, does the prosecutor stop me serving God out of love? Why do you make this shit up – NO – all the prosecutor does is accuse you of your sinNo, all the Opposer does is accuse me of sin, Correct – that is all Hebrew satan does And it has nothing to do with the Beast of Revelation
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 15:19:07 GMT -5
D"Robert – I must confess – I no longer take you seriously You are not here to study –
R" Well if you are not willing to seek truth, when we discuss truth, than I will not discuss truth with you anymore...your choice...
As for not here to study, not so.
I have been reading much about Jews, learning about Jews and finding all I can about Gnostic writings.
I quote from our Hebrew English prophet
"The Alpha of the Omega—There are times when important movements must be made in a crisis that the Lord permits—the development of an evil work which has long been in minds and hearts. The work of advancement in the proclamation of truth has at such times been greatly hindered [by] specious workings, which are the Alpha of the Omega, which means very much to the people who are in any way connected with parties who have received the warnings of the Lord, but refused to heed them....
Omega to One of the Most Subtle Delusions—We are now to be on guard, and not drawn away from the all-important message given of God for this time. Satan is not ignorant of the result of trying to define God and Jesus Christ in a spiritualistic [Used here in reference to a system of interpretation, not spiritism popularly called spiritualism.] way that sets God and Christ as a nonentity. The moments occupied in this kind of science are, in the place of preparing the way of the Lord, making a way for Satan to come in and confuse the minds with mysticisms of his own devising. Although they are dressed up in angel robes they have made our God and our Christ a nonentity. Why?—because Satan sees the minds are all fitted for his working. Men have lost track of Christ and the Lord God, and have been obtaining an experience that is Omega to one of the most subtle delusions that will ever captivate the minds of men. We are forbidden to discuss the character or set the imagination in a train of conjecture.—Diary, #48, pp. 153, 163, August 25 and August 28, 1904. "
God has warned Christians through these messages of the Alpha delusion and the Omega delusion.
Jewish culture has become Hellenized and thus since the time of Simon Magnus and other spurious pretenders to the true faith, they came into the disciples gospel with an Alpha wave of "traditions and precepts" different to the gospel the disciples and Paul was preaching. This Alpha wave of delusion later came to be term Gnostic, as Paul mentions to Timothy.
And you read of the Gnostic invasion into the Hellenized culture of Judaism, so the traditions and precepts of men crept into the older Hebrew faith.
Today since the time of the Reformation movement, which was not in any way Gnostic in nature, we are returning to the Omega delusion of Gnostic delusions again, this mystic quest for superior knowledge.
So I have been studying and learning, just vehemently disagree with your view and your Gnostic ways, because they oppose the Hebrew torah, which Hellenized Jews no longer seem to follow also.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2022 6:50:14 GMT -5
D"Robert – I must confess – I no longer take you seriously You are not here to study – R" Well if you are not willing to seek truth, when we discuss truth, than I will not discuss truth with you anymore...your choice...
As for not here to study, not so. Pretend away Robert – fight against scripture – fight against the reality of the spirit and the spiritual – fight against the reality of the archon – fight against the idea of an intelligent design
NOW – you are pushing the idea that your satan god is superior ro the Creator Your satan god KILLED the creator and sent Him to the Second Death But your satan god remains
ABSOLUTE NONSENSE
Now you teach that the CROSS was not sufficient for salvation – you must do more You have absolutely denied the concept of FIRST FRUITS for 3 years – suddenly Moses LIVES after hos mortal death because you say he was FIRST FRUITS
YOU JUST SAY ANYTHING to attack the Christian Faith – Mock scripture You deliberately misrepresent me – scripture – English – and others in a demonstration of academic honesty
Robert – I must confess – I no longer take you seriously You are not here to study – you just choose to oppose me and scripture because you think it qute Enjoy your game – demonstrate to God and everyone the respect toy have for the word of God
Your refusal to answer questions is a demonstration of your game – just attack – but never answer
1- Why do you deny the New Testament Gospel and call yourself a Christian 2- Why do you think it a game to call the New Testament Gospel – Gnostic? 3- Why do you deny LIFE LIVES - but defend Moses as First Fruits 4- Why do you dent the spirit and the spiritual – and think of it as pagan mysticism 5- Why do you deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit 6- Why do you doubt the action of the Holy Spirit today 7- Why do you teach that miracles are only the stuff of ancient history 8- Why do you deny that Jesus was more than just a man 9- Why do you teach that your satan is able to repent 10- Why do you deny Jusus Christ was God incarnate – yet you pray to Jesus
You have painted yourself into a very large anti-Christian hole – from which there is no escape – except to admit you just enjoy attaching Christianity for sport – just a game you play to attack Christianity
So I have been studying and learning, just vehemently disagree with your view and your Gnostic ways, because they oppose the Hebrew torah, which Hellenized Jews no longer seem to follow also.
Why do you deny the New Testament Gospel and call it Gnostic Now you want to teach that the New Testament is a delusion You teach others NOT to embrace the New Testamant - but call yourself a Christian YOU JUST SAY ANYTHING to attack the Christian Faith – Mock scripture
A study – is an exchange of Q&A You – all Q no A
ANSWER FOR YOUR BELIEFS – for your anti-Christian beliefs
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 15:08:22 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
I have tried to answer your questions, but you seem to avoid discussing my discussing, so we never resolve our questions.
You are like a JW, when they come to visit, I say to them, you can pick any topic to discuss, but we must stick to the one topic and discuss until it is resolved, either I agree with you, or your agree with me. ( A JW refuses to do this, when cornered by debate, they break into another topic or theme, avoiding the discussion at hand.... Dave does the same thing.... though I must hold my hat to you for spending some years on the archon debate, but you refuse to discuss, and this very much slowed the process of discovery...) This way we break the beginning of one of our theories, because we all come with theories of faith, and according to science a theory can be falsified. (However God's truth cannot be falsified)
I have falsified many aspects of your theories of faith. You do not wish to discuss my discussions, and so we do not properly debate.
I am not here to debate, it is a tool I use, to discover the truth, the truth that God proclaims.
One problem nobody can break up a person's world wide, each person has their own world view that is impossible to break through, evidence does not break a persons world view. I was first introduced to this topic on the video about the twin tower collapse, as most people do not understand the USA government caused to destruction to the tower, and treat the murder of their own people as collateral damage. Hence their is a world view presentation at the end of the video. The video was put together by over 700 architects, including the one who built the skyscrapers.
Now regarding your world view, you seem to consider the Jews have the truth, which some did in the olden days, like Moses, and Joshua, these were prophets who wrote the sacred torah. The Bible also speaks of false prophets, and many of them lived and wrote things in the same period of Bible history, as true prophets did.
Because God saw the majority of Jews choosing not to follow the Hebrew torah as the few loyal prophets did, God sent them into captivity, the Babylons really changed Hebrew culture and edited Hebrew culture. Some like Daniel remained true to the older Hebrew torah, but things changed. Now since Alexander the Great causing the LXX, the Hellenization process has impacted Hebrew culture once more AGAIN, a second time. This caused another editing process, not of the original Hebrew torah, but the commentaries about the torah, the midrash and thus these commentaries changed the way the Jews saw the sacred Hebrew torah of Moses.
When Christianity came, which is Jesus in person trying to restore the older Moses torah, he was met with much opposition by the Jews of the day, who were Hellenized and refused to see Jesus as the promised messiah. When the disciples published the gospel of Jesus as truth, Jews sects followed them to disrupt this true torah with precepts the Jews were used to in their Hellenized ways, one such belief was that salvation is based entirely on keeping the deed of mitzvah using human powers alone. Paul battled this error. Other more subtle errors crept in such errors came to be known as Gnosis, the idea that superior knowledge existed beyond what the disciples were preaching. Paul also wrote against this as well.
I find you are Hellenized-Gnostic Jew (for a label) but you are not willing to follow the Moses torah as it is written. You prefer the editing Hellenized process over the years instead.
You claim the Roman edit has spoiled the true Hebrew of Scripture, but I have not seen evidence of this, what I have read is the Hellenization edit of the true Moses torah, and this is a tradition of some thousands of years.
So I am willing to study the midrash looking for samples of comments by any Rabbi older than the Babylonian captivity time, say 2000 BC? What I find instead is the midrash is much more recent, (less than 500 years ago) and obviously fully of the Hellenization Edit, as I will term it, or the Hellenization-Gnostic edit. This is the tenant of your World View as I see it.
My world view is much more easier to discover, I simple follow the Moses torah as it reads in Hebrew, without traditions of other people, sola scriptoria is what I have. You do not have sola scriptoria, you are swayed by the editing process of thousands of years by people affected by Hellenization first and later by Gnostic thinking, which came from the Hellenization process.
I suspect the modern version of the Book of Enoch is a Hellenization fake, as Enoch was oral in nature, not written in nature. Moses I believe was the first prophet to write the torah down, using Ancient Hebrew letters by the way, something modern Jews fail to admit.
I quote "
The word midrash occurs twice in the Hebrew Bible: 2 Chronicles 13:22 "in the midrash of the prophet Iddo", and 24:27 "in the midrash of the book of the kings". Both the King James Version (KJV) and English Standard Version (ESV) translate the word as "story" in both instances; the Septuagint translates it as βιβλίον (book) in the first, as γραφή (writing) in the second. The meaning of the Hebrew word in these contexts is uncertain: it has been interpreted as referring to "a body of authoritative narratives, or interpretations thereof, concerning historically important figures"[13] and seems to refer to a "book", perhaps even a "book of interpretation", which might make its use a foreshadowing of the technical sense that the rabbis later gave to the word.[14]
2Ch 13:22 And the rest of the acts of Abijah, and his ways, and his sayings, are written in the story "midrash" of the prophet Iddo. (KJV)
2Ch 24:27 Now concerning his sons, and the greatness of the burdens laid upon him, and the repairing of the house of God, behold, they are written in the story "midrash" of the book of the kings. And Amaziah his son reigned in his stead. (KJV)
R" The term "midrash" is unknown, perhaps a reference to writings outside of the torah and later changed over the years to refer to something else?
I quote " An example of a midrashic interpretation:
"And God saw all that He had made, and found it very good. And there was evening, and there was morning, the sixth day." (Genesis 1:31)—Midrash: Rabbi Nahman said in Rabbi Samuel's name: "Behold, it was very good" refers to the Good Desire; "AND behold, it was very good" refers to the Evil Desire. Can then the Evil Desire be very good? That would be extraordinary! But without the Evil Desire, however, no man would build a house, take a wife and beget children; and thus said Solomon: "Again, I considered all labour and all excelling in work, that it is a man's rivalry with his neighbour." (Kohelet IV, 4).[45] (Genesis Rabbah 9:7, translation from Soncino Publications)
R" When did this Rabbi write this?
"google" The Soncino Hebrew Bible and Talmud translations and commentaries, now half a century old, were a standard of Jewish publishing for many years, and were widely used in both Orthodox and Conservative synagogues.
SO we are looking at a Hellenized Gnostic Edit by a Jew steeped in this view.
Can we find any writings from a Rabbi not influenced by the Hellenized Gnostic Edit ? That is my question to you....
Hence the reason I read the true prophets in Hebrew, without the editing process of others, solar scriptoria.
When I read the midrash accounts, they are full of one person's account over another person's account, and never about the Hebrew torah alone, though they reference the Hebrew torah, the object is to play on their interpretations of torah, rather than the torah itself.
Sola scriptoria is a different method, the Hebrew torah is compared to Hebrew torah, and the commentaries of others is never considered. It is nice though that our pioneers agree with our conclusions, but this is secondary in importance.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2022 20:57:37 GMT -5
I have tried to answer your questions, but you seem to avoid discussing my discussing, so we never resolve our questions. ABSOLUTE NONSENSE – I ask you a direct question – you respond with pages and pages of justification of why your metaphor is more important than scripture
Now regarding your world view, you seem to consider the Jews have the truth, YOU BET I DO - ABSOLUTELY God’s chosen people – given the Torah – walk with God hand in hand – the foundation of Jesus Christ
When Christianity came, which is Jesus in person trying to restore the older Moses torah, he was met with much opposition by the Jews of the day, who were Hellenized and refused to see Jesus as the promised messiah. If you were a Bible Believing Christian – you would understand why there remains a remnant But you teach Bible prophesy is not about the Israel in the last days
When the disciples published the gospel of Jesus as truth, Roman Christendom edited and forbid sections of the agl to usurp the faith from Spirit based – to church based
You claim the Roman edit has spoiled the true Hebrew of Scripture, What a bunch of Robert man made crap that means nothing Roman Christendom edited and forbid sections of the agl to usurp the faith from Spirit based – to church based
So I am willing to study the midrash Changing the subject yet again – no one here has been discussing the Midrash as scripture
I suspect the modern version of the Book of Enoch is a Hellenization fake, YEP - attack the source – however you have little to no understanding of church history or how t[-you sols scriptorium was compiled
I quote " The word midrash occurs twice in the Hebrew Bible What the hell does this have to do with your refusal to answer direct questions?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2022 15:48:51 GMT -5
None of your questions is an actual hypothesis,
1- Why do you deny the New Testament Gospel and call yourself a Christian
R" I don't deny the NT gospel.
2- Why do you think it a game to call the New Testament Gospel – Gnostic?
R" Paul warned Timothy about Gnostic elements, and so did John about those who did not see Jesus coming in the flesh, which supposes Jesus went to heaven in the flesh as well, as our Redeemer for eternity, as the second Adam, ie Human.
3- Why do you deny LIFE LIVES - but defend Moses as First Fruits
R" There is no "spirit" in us that lives after we die, however we can be resurrected again after we die, before others are resurrected, like Moses was. Some like Enoch walked right into heaven clad in full humanity, some like Elijah rose up into heaven, clad in full humanity, and some like Moses was raised to life again, restored in his humanity.
There are two topics here in your "3" question, which one do you wish to discuss?
4- Why do you dent the spirit and the spiritual – and think of it as pagan mysticism
R" Too general a topic, what specifically do you wish to address?
5- Why do you deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
R" I don't
6- Why do you doubt the action of the Holy Spirit today
R" I don't
7- Why do you teach that miracles are only the stuff of ancient history
R" I don't
8- Why do you deny that Jesus was more than just a man
R" I don't
9- Why do you teach that your satan is able to repent
R" The cherubs that sinned were able to repent of their sins, and many did, however after the fully blown war in heaven, the decision process was closed, so the sinning angels have consciences seared with a hot iron, and no longer wish to repent. The chief prince Opposer is now no longer able to repent.
10- Why do you deny Jusus Christ was God incarnate – yet you pray to Jesus
R" I don't, Jesus is still fully divine, clad in fully a human body.
Now if you wish to choose to discuss these questions in detail, seriously, pick one question and make your discussions known.
I will help you, seeing the hypotheses we disagree on
1 Hypothesis: Was the NT originally written in Greek? My suppose is Yes.
2 Hypothesis: Did the disciples battle Gnostics spoiling their faith? My suppose is Yes.
3 Hypothesis: Do humans have an eternal spirit that lives after our first death, that is essentially us outside of the body? My suppose is No.
4 Hypothesis: What must be born again ? flesh or spirit or both? Gnostics teach nothing is born again, the eternal spirit just gnosis it's destiny? My suppose is : Hebrew teaches the soul is renewed with a brand new nashamah? The old nashamah must die in the baptism of Jesus death.
5 Hypothesis: Were there historical differences in the baptism of the Holy Spirit? My suppose is Yes.
6 Hypothesis: Are modern miracles, signs of God with saved humans? My suppose is No, not necessarily.
7 Hypothesis: Can modern public miracles happen today? My suppose is Yes, just rare, due to lack of faith.
8 Hypothesis: Is Jesus in heaven as High Priest in 3D human biological body? My suppose is Yes.
9 Hypothesis: Do cherubs have free will? Gnostics deny cherubs have free will, hence while angels can disobey, the angel cannot repent or return to God using free will?
My suppose is Yes. Cherubs are just like humans, and the first creatures to sin, were cherubs.
10 Hypothesis : Is Jesus fully divine, or just an expression of the Father clad in masculine form?
Gnostics suppose Jesus is just the expression of the Father, clad in a human body temporarily used to atone for our sins, the expression the Father continues in heaven in a unknown spiritual body that is not 3D biological like humans have on earth.
My suppose is Yes. Jesus is fully divine, supposes the term elohiym means a kind, where from eternity the elohiym powers came into being as a "Family" concept of love, not solitary love, but relational love; provider love, responder love and collective love, thus there are three uncaused causes of fundamental personalities in the term "elohiym" which means a "family concept of powers". This meaning fits "judges" and "pagan" notions of elohiym as well, all contexts of elohiym.
Now I have poised carefully ten questions for discussion. You can only choose one to discuss, and we must discuss it until one of us goes over to the other person's discussion, this us how discussions work. Unless the discussion cannot be resolved due to a lack of evidence.
I am happy to defend whatever discussion you choose and make a serious defense. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 26, 2022 21:51:28 GMT -5
1- Why do you deny the New Testament Gospel and call yourself a Christian R" I don't deny the NT gospel. It is hard to have an honest discussion with someone dishonestD"The spirit of Jesus was poured out at the Cross and went to preach to the lost in hades R" How is this possible when you just whittled away every verse of the soul poured unto death, referring to the Second death? 1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: PUT TO DEATH IN THE FLESH – MORTAL DEATH – DEATH OF BIOLOGY 1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. R" How is this possible when you just whittled away every verse of the soul poured unto death, referring to the Second death? Why do you teach us that the New Testament is wrong? Jesus (MAN) died upon the cross – (SPIRIT) Christ was poured out and continued to LIVE and do His mission – witness to the lost in hades LIFE LIVES – Why do you deny the New Testament Gospel – and call yourself a Christian------------------------- 2- Why do you think it a game to call the New Testament Gospel – Gnostic? R" Paul warned Timothy about Gnostic elements, and so did John about those who did not see Jesus coming in the flesh, which supposes Jesus went to heaven in the flesh as well, as our Redeemer for eternity, as the second Adam, ie Human. Why do you teach that James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas are Gnostic Do you deny that the disciples of Jesus Christ walked and talked with Him Do you dent that the disciples of Jesus Christ walked and talked with Him after His resurrection
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Why do you deny Acts 1:3 Why do you consider this knowledge to be secrete Why must you work so hard to deny the words and teaching of Jesus Christ---------------------- 3- Why do you deny LIFE LIVES - but defend Moses as First Fruits R" There is no "spirit" in us that lives after we die No spirit – no Holy Spirit – no evil spirits – no angelic spirits – no life after death – just grave4- Why do you deny the spirit and the spiritual – and think of it as pagan mysticism R" Too general a topic, what specifically do you wish to address? Why do you deny Acts 19:62Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 5- Why do you deny the Baptism of the Holy SpiritR" I don'tIt is hard to have an honest discussion with someone dishonest6- Why do you doubt the action of the Holy Spirit today R" I don't 7- Why do you teach that miracles are only the stuff of ancient history R" I don't 9- Why do you teach that your satan is able to repent R" The cherubs that sinned were able to repent of their sins, and many did, however after the fully blown war in heaven, the decision process was closed, so the sinning angels have consciences seared with a hot iron, and no longer wish to repent. The chief prince Opposer is now no longer able to repent. I have asked you and asked you for you scripture – where is it Mr Honest Why won’t you answer a direct question10- Why do you deny Jusus Christ was God incarnate – yet you pray to Jesus R" I don't, Jesus is still fully divine, clad in fully a human body.Then why have you argued against this terminology for the last 3 years? You argue - How can God be in heaven and on earth – you cannot understand it – God and Christ must be two different godsI am happy to defend whatever discussion you choose and make a serious defense.Defend why you deny the New Testament – and call yourself a Christian
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2022 23:18:53 GMT -5
(1) Rob wants to ask Dave:-
When we die the dead go to Hades?
When Jesus died Jesus spirit went to the souls in Hades and preached to them?
1 Peter says when Jesus died Jesus put to death the flesh, so biology never again functions in the new believer? we live by the spirit now?
Are these things true according to your view Dave?
And just because you think these things are true doesn't mean the Bible says they are true?
2) D"Why do you teach that James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas are Gnostic R" I don't. D"Do you deny that the disciples of Jesus Christ walked and talked with Him R" whose Him? D"Do you dent that the disciples of Jesus Christ walked and talked with Him after His resurrection R" no I don't.
D"Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Why do you deny Acts 1:3 R" I don't deny this?
D"Why must you work so hard to deny the words and teaching of Jesus Christ R" I don't ? Are you OK? I never suggested any of these ideas?
3) D"No spirit – no Holy Spirit – no evil spirits – no angelic spirits – no life after death – just grave R" Is this fair? you mock and add stuff I never said?
4) Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. D" Why do you deny Acts 19:6 R" I don;t deny this either? 5) It is hard to have an honest discussion with someone dishonest Dave, some humans got baptised before Jesus died on the cross, ie water, less power applied, and other got baptised after Jesus died on the cross, ie more power applied.
What is the problem? Can't you discuss my discussion here?
6 ) public miracles can deceive Dave, can the opposer do public miracles ? By their fruits ye shall know them The very elect can be deceived?
7) So this function of public miracles will happen again in the last days, but it is happening now all over the world, or is this the opposer doing miracles to man to deceive mankind?
Do you wish to discuss this ?
9) D" I have asked you and asked you for you scripture – where is it Mr Honest Why won’t you answer a direct question R" Not every question is answered by Scripture and whether angels repented or not is one of those questions.
10) R" I don't, Jesus is still fully divine, clad in fully a human body. D" Then why have you argued against this terminology for the last 3 years? You argue - How can God be in heaven and on earth – you cannot understand it – God and Christ must be two different gods R" Sorry I don't follow you, write your words differently
I asked you to discuss one of the these, not all ten.
Now reply within the replies I made.... Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 27, 2022 0:29:57 GMT -5
1) Rob wants to ask Dave:- When we die the dead go to Hades? I thought you were a Hebrew Expert H7585 - שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל - she'ôl - From H7592; hades or the world of the dead … grave, hell,
Hades – simply means the unseen – do you see the dead?
When Jesus died Jesus spirit went to the souls in Hades and preached to them? 1 Peter says when Jesus died Jesus put to death the flesh, so biology never again functions YEP – dead – in the grave – dust
NOW ANSWER THE REST OF THE QUESTION
1Pe 3:18 … but quickened by the Spirit: 1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Are these things true according to your view Dave? ABSOLUTELY TRUE – YES I BELIEVE SCRIPTURE – YES I BELIEVE IN THE SPIRIT
And just because you think these things are true doesn't mean the Bible says they are true? Why do you deny the New Testament and teach others it is ok to ignore scripture
2) D"Why do you teach that James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas are Gnostic R" I don't. ABSOLUTE NONSENSE - all I have quote to you is James, John, Paul, Peter, Philip, and Thomas and you scream that it is all Gnostic
D"Do you deny that the disciples of Jesus Christ walked and talked with Him R" whose Him? Pretend away Robert – avoid answering the question
D"Do you deny that the disciples of Jesus Christ walked and talked with Him after His resurrection R" no I don't. D"Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: Why do you deny Acts 1:3 R" I don't deny this? Then why is your answer - R" no I don't.
4) Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. D" Why do you deny Acts 19:6 R" I don;t deny this either? D" Why do you deny Acts 19:6 Try to be honest with your answer this time
6 ) public miracles can deceive Dave, can the opposer do public miracles ? By their fruits ye shall know them The very elect can be deceived? The 2nd Great Awakening – Joseph Smith, Charles Russel, Ellen White and the SDA with their Islamic advent math borrowed from the Bahai Faith of India
7) So this function of public miracles will happen again in the last days, but it is happening now all over the world, or is this the opposer doing miracles to man to deceive mankind? There you are – giving the praise to the wrong god
9) D" I have asked you and asked you for you scripture – where is it Mr Honest Why won’t you answer a direct question R" Not every question is answered by Scripture and whether angels repented or not is one of those questions. So you have NO scripture to back up your teaching – isn’t that the definition of a man-made doctrine Or is it Ellen White and you are just embarrassed to admit that she is not supported by scripture
10) - Why do you deny Jusus Christ was God incarnate – yet you pray to Jesus R" I don't, Jesus is still fully divine, clad in fully a human body. D" Then why have you argued against this terminology for the last 3 years? You argue - How can God be in heaven and on earth – you cannot understand it – God and Christ must be two different gods R" Sorry I don't follow you, write your words differently Bull Shit Robert – God and Christ cannot be the same entity according to you - how could Christ on earth praying to the father in heaven you argue
I ask you how many Gods do you see in Ex 33:20-23 – 3 or 1? John 1:1 – word + word + word = and the word was God - how many Gods do you see – 3 or 1?
There is only One True God – there is No Other
I asked you to discuss one of the these, not all ten. In Hopes –you will respond honestly to at least one
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2022 16:30:52 GMT -5
1) Hypothesis : What does Peter mean in 1 Peter 3: 19 "spirits in prison" ?
Introduction: Some claim Jesus died and preaches to the lost in Hades in a spirit form while His body lies in Hades. This verse reinforces the claim the "spirit lives" after a body dies, and it capable of speaking or witnessing to other "spirits" captured by Hades, awaiting purification, a divine pardon or the sentence of eternal non-existence.
Discussion: It is possible this phrase used by Peter is a Hebrew idiom, meaning something coined by the Hebrew cultures themselves. Consider the whole chapter of Isaiah 42.
Isa 42:1 ¶ Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
God wishes to raise a prophet (Like John the Baptist) to preach God's spirit to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:5 ¶ Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Note the same Hebrew words are mentioned again in the breath of life phrase, the "nashamah" and the "ruwach", allow the human to become a living soul.
Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Here is the idiom Peter refers to, God comes to those in prison and in darkness to bring them out of the prison house. God also sees those in the prison house as blind.
Isa 42:16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight.
Notice the things that GOD promises to do with these people, make them see, restore them to the light, and make them not crooked but straight.
Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Another theme presented here is the idea of making the torah honourable and magnified, made greater than before by this witness or servant to those held in their prison houses. To those blind.
Isa 42:22 But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
Just to mention the same theme again, the Gentiles are held in prison houses and are prey because nobody delivers them or restores them, allowing them to repent (the same word means to return to the Lord)
Isa 42:24 Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.
What causes us to be blind and held in a prison house, is our sins and our disobedience to His Law.
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Does this theme get repeated elsewhere in Scripture?
(a) Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus refers to bondage "Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." ..as being held captive under the ruling of the devil as their father, and the sinning this father devil encourages in humans to continue sinning.
(b) Ac 7:6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
There is also physical bondage to some other human ruler, forcing slavery upon it's inhabitants.
(c) Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
There is another level of bondage, because while the "nashamah" is willing, the "basar" is weak. So we require a restoration of the "ruwach" that was broken by our "missing" so we can receive a full measure of salvation again into our "nashamah".
Ro 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
This bondage is caused by our bodies having corruption.
Ga 5:1 ¶ Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage
Again the same idea as Isaiah 42, we are held in the prison house under a yoke of bondage.
(d) Heb 2:14 ¶ Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Here is the fear of death that makes us held in our bodies like a prison house, dying daily. --------------------------------------
Answering some possible objections:
Now can the Scriptures support the idea that after the body dies, the "spirit lives"?
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Here we see as long as the nashamah is present, man is a living soul.
1Ki 17:17 ¶ And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him.
When the nashamah ceases, the body dies, is apparent from this verse.
Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
This verse offers clue to the TWO hebrew words in the phrase "breath of life", the nashamah is with me, while the RUWACH of Elohiym is in my nostrils.
The nashamah belongs to humans, the RUWACH belongs to Elohiym. Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. Man is partnered to the Ruwach, and the nashamah from the SHADDAY gives humans understanding.
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. The RUWACH EL made humans, and the Nashamah of the SHADDAY given humans living.
These verses suggest to me the SHADDAY administrates into humans the nashamah, and this function is part of the RUWACH partnered within us. Ps 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD. Man's praising comes from our nashamah.
Pr 20:27 ¶ The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
Our nashamah is a simile of a candle, and is the "spirit of man" given to us by God, administrated within us by the RWUACH of ELohiym.
Does the NT speak a similar theme?
Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: (KJV)
We get the impression that Jesus made a blast of nashamah and the RUWACH came upon the disciples more powerfully.
Lu 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Jesus commit the returning the RUWACH, and gives us His nashamah (not sure if "ekpneo" is a similiar meaning for nashamah?)
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: Man has no power over the RUWACH when we die
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ruwach returns to Elohiym who gave man the ruwach to administrate our nashamah within us.
Ps 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. When the RUWACH leaves us, our thoughts perish, because our nashamah stops functioning.
I will allow Dave to discuss within my discussion.
This is ONE topic discussed and taken me over 2 hours to research carefully.
It would be unfair to research all TEN , spending all day on the computer for what end?
Shalom my friend
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Post by Dave on Aug 27, 2022 20:36:34 GMT -5
1) Hypothesis : What does Peter mean in 1 Peter 3: 19 "spirits in prison" ? Introduction: Some claim Jesus died and preaches to the lost in Hades in a spirit form while His body lies in Hades. This verse reinforces the claim the "spirit lives" after a body dies, and it capable of speaking or witnessing to other "spirits" captured by Hades, awaiting purification, a divine pardon or the sentence of eternal non-existence.
Why do you say captured by hades? – word man
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Those that He preached to were – those that were alive at the time of Noah How can Christ minister to dead bodies in a grave? Christ ministered to the lost souls (spirits in prison) that were alive at the time of Noah
Discussion: It is possible this phrase used by Peter is a Hebrew idiom, meaning something coined by the Hebrew cultures themselves. Consider the whole chapter of Isaiah 42.
The New Testament is not error – it is not a fable – it is not a giant metaphor Each and every word is true – either you believe the New Testament or you don’t No such thing as believing in only parts of it = error No such thing as picking and choosing your favorite verses to champion Precept upon precept, line upon line
Isa 42:1 ¶ Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
God wishes to raise a prophet (Like John the Baptist) to preach God's spirit to the Gentiles. AND put God’s spirit upon him – why do you deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Isa 42:5 ¶ Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: Note the same Hebrew words are mentioned again in the breath of life phrase, the "nashamah" and the "ruwach", allow the human to become a living soul.
OK word man – call it whatever you like man is spirit – preexist conception – comes to earth to souljourn – and returns to God for judgment
Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Here is the idiom Peter refers to, God comes to those in prison and in darkness to bring them out of the prison house. God also sees those in the prison house as blind. YEP – lost in the darkness (ignorance of God)
Isa 42:16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight.
Notice the things that GOD promises to do with these people, make them see, restore them to the light, and make them not crooked but straight. Sure – to bring them out of ignorance (darkness)
Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Another theme presented here is the idea of making the torah honourable and magnified, made greater than before by this witness or servant to those held in their prison houses. To those blind. YES – we are called to Jer 1:5 – be a witness
Isa 42:22 But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.
Just to mention the same theme again, the Gentiles are held in prison houses and are prey because nobody delivers them or restores them, allowing them to repent (the same word means to return to the Lord) Isaiah is ahl/OT – Now we have the Gospel and the Gentile are brought out of ignorance (darkness) into the truth of YWHY (Light)
Isa 42:24 Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.
What causes us to be blind and held in a prison house, is our sins and our disobedience to His Law. YES – God did it – God does it – because it is all God’s Plan – all Gods; Will
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Does this theme get repeated elsewhere in Scripture?
(a) Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus refers to bondage YES – whatever demands your attention = your god – mammon / money / power / fame
"Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
Yes you are sucked into the WORLD - and focus upon things of this WORLD – because you love this WORLD – but it is an empty truth because you will die and the WORLD will pass away
..as being held captive under the ruling of the devil as their father, - just WORLD
and the sinning this father devil encourages in humans to continue sinning. – just WORLD
(b) Ac 7:6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
There is also physical bondage to some other human ruler, forcing slavery upon it's inhabitants. YES – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will – God is in control -------------
Ro 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
This bondage is caused by our bodies having corruption. So agree – flesh is flesh and flesh is WORLD Gnostic Paul Rom 7: 7-25 Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ga 5:1 ¶ Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage Again the same idea as Isaiah 42, we are held in prison house under a yoke of bondage. So agree – flesh is flesh and flesh is WORLD Gnostic Paul Rom 7: 7-25 Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(d) Heb 2:14 ¶ Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Here is the fear of death that makes us held in our bodies like a prison house, dying daily.
The Apocryphon (Secret Book) of James “Lord, we can obey you if you want us to, because we’ve abandoned our fathers, our mothers, and our villages, and have followed you. So help us not to be tempted by the devil, the evil one.”
In response the Lord said, “What good is it to you if you do the will of the Father, and he doesn’t give it to you as a gift when you’re tempted by Satan? But if you’re oppressed by Satan and persecuted and do (God’s) 5 will, I [say] that he’ll love you, make you my equal, and regard [you] as having become beloved through his forethought by your own choice. So won’t you stop loving the flesh and being afraid of sufferings? Or don’t you know that you haven’t yet been abused, unjustly accused, locked up in prison, illegally condemned, crucified by reason, nor buried in the sand as I myself was by the evil one? Do you dare to spare the flesh, you for whom the Spirit is a surrounding wall? If you consider how long the world existed <before> you, and how long it will exist after you, you’ll find that your life is a single day and your sufferings a single hour. For the good won’t come into the world. So scorn death and take thought for life! Remember my cross and my death, and you’ll live!”
But in response I told him, “Lord, don’t teach us about the cross and death, because they’re far 6 from you.”
In response the Lord said, “Truly I tell you, no one will be saved unless they [believe] in my cross, [because] the kingdom of God belongs to those who’ve believed in my cross. So become those who seek death, like the dead who seek life; because what they seek is revealed to them. So what do they have to worry about? When you turn to the subject of death, it will teach you about election. Truly I tell you, no one who’s afraid of death will be saved, because the kingdom of <God> belongs to those who are put to death. Become better than I; be like the child of the Holy Spirit.” ...
“Be eager to be saved without being urged. Rather, be ready on your own and, if possible, get there before me, because the Father will love you. ...
“Come to hate hypocrisy and evil intention, because intention is what produces hypocrisy, and hypocrisy is far from the truth. ...
“Be eager about the message! The first stage of the message is faith, the second is love, and the third is works, because from these comes life. --------------------------------------
Answering some possible objections:
Now can the Scriptures support the idea that after the body dies, the "spirit lives"?
Ge 2:7 Here we see as long as the nashamah is present, man is a living soul. 1Ki 17:17 When the nashamah ceases, the body dies, is apparent from this verse. Job 27:3 This verse offers clue to the TWO hebrew words in the phrase "breath of life", the nashamah is with me, while the RUWACH of Elohiym is in my nostrils. Job 27:3The nashamah belongs to humans, the RUWACH belongs to Elohiym. I will allow Dave to discuss within my discussion.
I will discuss – but first Now can the Scriptures support the idea that after the body dies, the "spirit lives"? Every scripture that promises eternal life Every Jew has always believed in an eternal resurrection and life with the Father
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The Promise of eternal life
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The promise of everlasting life
There is nothing eternal about things born on earth of biology over the centuries – one by one – only to stop existing – then to exist again – so they can die again
Eternal life = created on Day 1 – will live eternally – created to be eternal UNLESS I end up in the Lake of Fire – The Second Death Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. Man is partnered to the Ruwach, and the nashamah from the SHADDAY gives humans understanding. IT SAYS THERE IS A SPIRIT IN MAN – and wisdom from the Holy Spirit
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. The RUWACH EL made humans, and the Nashamah of the SHADDAY given humans living. YES - RUWACH EL – ruawach with an adjective modifier for identification – Spirit of God YES – the female Holy Spirit – the womb of creation – Mother - Left Hand and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. = Gen 2:7
Ps 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD. Man's praising comes from our nashamah. From the soul / in the spirit – home of (yester tov)
Pr 20:27 ¶ The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. ruawach with an adjective modifier for identification – Spirit of Man
Does the NT speak a similar theme?
Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: (KJV) YES – the Spirit of Christ = The Holy Spirit = Trinity = Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Lu 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Jesus commit the returning the RUWACH, Correct – Jesus died – Christ was poured out / released to preach to the lost in hades
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: Man has no power over the RUWACH when we die Correct – only God does
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ruwach returns to Elohiym who gave man the ruwach to administrate our nashamah within us. YES – from God we came – and to God we will return - DUH
Ps 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. When the RUWACH leaves us, our thoughts perish, because our nashamah stops functioning. NOT TALKING about the brain / intellect / knowledge / biology – all perish
This is ONE topic discussed and taken me over 2 hours to research carefully. It would be unfair to research all TEN , spending all day on the computer for what end? You claimed it was in the pursuit of the TRUTH
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