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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2022 10:49:13 GMT -5
the only way your views are valid is if you deny Judaism the foundation of ChristianityMat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Jesus was a Jew of Jewish theology / demonology and culture – His disciples were Jewish – His followers were Jewish and all the First Christians were Pentecostal Messianic Jews R"I posted already I do not agree with this idea. Correct – the only way your views are valid is if you deny Judaism the foundation of Christianity Roman Catholic is the foundation of Fallen Angels and your Ezk 28 satan god who has the authority to alter God’s creation against God’s Will Roman Catholic is the foundation of your denial of the Baptism of the Holy SpiritEllen White takes it farther teaching – no spirit at all – and no afterlifeTwo completely different religions with different godsI have the God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac – One True God – Absolute Sovereign I have only one creation – and one Creator There is only God’s Way – only God’s Plan - only God’s Will It has always been God’s Plan – and it will always be God’s Plan Fact – reality is a duality based upon a singularity = TrinitySingularity – there is only One God = YHWYDuality – (heaven / ethereal / spiritual) + (earth / corporeal / dust-flesh) Trinity = Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. The Father Creator – beyond our reality – uncomprehend-able Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: The Glory of God – the Spirit of God – the Holy Spirit – Shekinah – the Goddess of Wisdom Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. 3D image in this WORLD that Moses could see – Christ – the image of GodGod created everything for a purpose – the tov and the ra God created man with the ability to choose between the tov and ra The choice is always – moving toward God – or moving away from GodThe very act of coming into this WORLD = a movement away from heaven and God Eve is just an example of humanity – all men are sinners – all men choose world at some point in their lives – because all men are animals God created everything for a purpose – man’s purpose = Jer 1:5To do our job – we MUST first wake up and remember – who we are We are children of God – created to serve and praise God BUT – as animals living in the wilderness – we behave like animals Religion / theology / cosmology – whatever you call it is a call to wake up and remember And guidance on how to RETURN (move toward God) John 3:16 – God incarnate – on the Cross – for the believer Christianity IS NOT about the Human Sacrifice Christianity IS all about the Resurrection – LIFE LIVESUpon your mortal death – you will continue to meet your maker – then what? What about the – then what? It is up to you to WAKE up and remember who you are I think therefore I am – I am aware – I know the difference between tov and ra My choices are always – Jer 1:5 or WORLD Jesus said – sell it all and follow me Today – 2022AD – do I want to be seen as John the Baptist in the wilderness Or – blend in and conform – “do what I have to – to life the life I choose” My choices are always – Jer 1:5 or WORLD Christianity IS NOT about the Human Sacrifice Christianity IS all about the Resurrection – LIFE LIVESBelievers – believe it to be so – understand it to be right – and become trapped within man-made religion – things to do – this is all good and rewarded All seekers need a place to start the journey (movement toward God) – the corner church But that is NOT the end of the journey – only the beginning The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a calling for discipleship – to be the hands and feet of Christ Churchians look upon Pentecostals – as claiming they have secret knowledge (gnosis) Pentecostals – answer back – it is no secrete – it is communion – spirit to Spirit The satan – is a real and important part of the struggle between animal WORLD and spirituality Eph 6:12 – our real struggle Col 1:16 – made by Him for Him Gen 3:15 – established by Him I have only one creation – and one Creator There is only God’s Way – only God’s Plan - only God’s Will It has always been God’s Plan – and it will always be God’s PlanThe satan – Rev 12:3 -9 + Gen 3:1-14 = a biological creature (Gnostic = some matter) The BEAST – is just another animal / creature in this WORLD The BEAST = love of WORLD – WORLD is god – WORLD satisfies the body – animals like WORLD This is NOT a god – if men want to worship WORLD / greed / lust / power / wealth / mammon / fame The BEAST will enjoy it –relish in it – (yester ra) greed / power /wealth / fame 33 – other gods all over the ahl/OT The ahl/OT is the saga of the 1% vrs the 99% who have been left to other gods Always with the POINT – YHWY is the One True God – all other god are worthless created things Always with the POINT – when Israel walks with God – God walks with Israel Always with the POINT – when Israel does NOT walk with God – Oops! My question to Robert – why did God leave the 99% to the other Gods Answer – to prove to all that YHWY is the one true God It has always been God’s Plan – and it will always be God’s Plan The Gnostics call it the Contest 33 – other gods all over the ahl/OTBeelzebul and the shedin – Lilith – satyrs Jewish demonology 33 – other gods all over the ahl/OTAll gathered together by Mohammed – placed in the Kaba – and declared Allah their supreme commander Demonology / theology of the other gods of the Levant Allah – Iblis – and the Jinn 33 – other gods all over the ahl/OTJesus was a Jew of Jewish theology / demonology and culture – His disciples were Jewish – His followers were Jewish and all the First Christians were Pentecostal Messianic Jews The authors of the agl/NT called them The Chief Archon – and his military hierarchy of archons NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH ROMAN FALLEN ANGELS or Ezk 28John 3:16 – God incarnate – on the Cross – for the believer Christianity IS NOT about the Human Sacrifice Christianity IS all about the Resurrection – LIFE LIVESUpon your mortal death – you will continue to meet your maker – then what? What about the – then what? It is up to you to WAKE up and remember who you are We are spirit / pneuma / “It begins with the belief that within the human being resides a spark of the divine. In Hebrew, that’s called a neshamah. … Just as G‑d is forever, so too the neshamah is. … Your neshamah lived a heavenly life before it entered a body on this earth, and it will live an even higher one afterward. … So, no, the neshamah doesn’t decay or decompose with the body in the grave. It is released to rise up to greater heights …”This world is not our true home – we are just passing through – souljourning here – we are here for a purpose Jer 1:5 – upon our mortal death we will return to God for judgment.The BEAST - satan - the devils - the ARCHON / Principalities - are false gods and are just OBSTICLES - like weather or disease - just another thing of this WORLD
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Post by Dave on Aug 13, 2022 12:00:34 GMT -5
NO COMMENT? You ask – I give – you don’t respondYou ask – I give – you don’t respondYou ask – I give – you don’t respondR" But you said yester ra is not evil? OK what is it than? Inclination to do evil? I thought you said it was the word ‘aven’What's the difference Dave? I could tell you – and have told you – but it is a 3000 year old basic Jewish teaching – so you must reject it – won’t study it – refuse to understand it – just so you can keep asking these question from ignoranceIs this a word game you play? NOPE - it is a 3000 year old basic Jewish teaching In the beginning – God gave living creatures (animals) 2 commandmentsCommandment 1 – (yester ra) = go forth be fruitful and multiply Commandment 2- reproduce after your own kindGen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures! Let flying creatures fly above the land across the expanse of the sky.” Gen 1:21 Then God created the large sea creatures and every living creature that crawls, with which the water swarms, according to their species, as well as every winged flying creature, according to their species. And God saw that it was good. Gen 1:22 Then God blessed them by saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the water in the seas. Let the flying creatures multiply on the land.” Gen 1:23 So there was evening and there was morning—a fifth day. Gen 1:24 Then God said, “Let the land bring forth living creatures according to their species—livestock, crawling creatures and wild animals, according to their species.” And it happened so. Gen 1:25 God made the wild animals according to their species, the livestock according to their species, and everything that crawls on the ground, each according to its species. And God saw that it was good. The Archon – as unseen spirits - driven by (yester ra) went forth and multipliedCommandment 1 – (yester ra) = go forth be fruitful and multiplyThe Hypostasis of the ArchonsThis ruler, by being androgynous, made himself a vast realm, an extent without limit. And he contemplated creating offspring for himself, and created for himself seven offspring, androgynous just like their parent. And he said to his offspring, "It is I who am god of the entirety."
And Zoe (Life), the daughter of Pistis Sophia, cried out and said to him, "You are mistaken, Sakla!" – for which the alternative name is Yaltabaoth. She breathed into his face, and her breath became a fiery angel for her; and that angel bound Yaldabaoth and cast him down into Tartaros below the abyss.The Apocryphon of JohnHe became strong and created for himself other aeons with a flame of luminous fire which (still) exists now. And he joined with his arrogance which is in him and begot authorities for himself. The name of the first one … The second one is … The third one is ... The fourth one is ... The fifth one is ... The sixth one is ... The seventh is ... The eighth is … The ninth ... The tenth is …. And he placed seven kings - each corresponding to the firmaments of heaven - over the seven heavens, and five over the depth of the abyss, that they may reign. …
"And the archons created seven powers for themselves, …Rev 12:3 And there was seen another sign in the heaven, and, lo, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his head seven diadems, The Beast appeared in a plurality 10 – dimensions 7 – heavens Islamic correlation with the archonOn the Origin of the World – OK but not James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, or Thomas These are the seven forces of the seven heavens of chaos. And they were born androgynous, consistent with the immortal pattern that existed before them … All the forms amount to seventy-two. Furthermore, from this chariot the seventy-two gods took shape; they took shape so that they might rule over the seventy-two languages of the peoples. (google) What religion gives you 72?Islamic - In life, the most perfect aim is for istishadi through jihad, and the martyr will receive bountiful gifts in paradise. Men will receive 72 virgins in the hadith corpus. (google) What is the concept of 72 Hoor in Islam?The concept of 72 hoors is mentioned in Hadith - the sayings of Muhammad. According to Hadith, the messenger of God said, "Every one that God admits into the paradise will be married to 72 houries (wives) who are beautiful and virgins, with whom they can have eternal physical satisfaction " Actually – the Islamic teaching = the martyrs get 72 houses – with a virgin each----------------------------- The Archon – as seen (visible) bane elohiym (offspring of the Beast) - driven by (yester ra) went forth and multipliedGen 6:2 then the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were good and they took for themselves wives, any they chose. Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, whenever the sons of God came to the daughters of men, and gave birth to them. Those were the mighty men of old, men of renown. Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Gen 6:2 and sons of God see the daughters of men that they are fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen. Gen 6:4 The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them—they are the heroes, who, from of old, are the men of name. The Apocryphon of John"And he made a plan with his powers. He sent his angels to the daughters of men, that they might take some of them for themselves and raise offspring for their enjoyment. And at first they did not succeed. When they had no success, they gathered together again and they made a plan together. They created a counterfeit spirit, who resembles the Spirit who had descended, so as to pollute the souls through it. And the angels changed themselves in their likeness into the likeness of their mates (the daughters of men), filling them with the spirit of darkness, which they had mixed for them,Book of Enoch6:1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' 3. And Semjâzâ, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' 4. And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' 5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.----------------------- The Archon – as unseen spirits - driven by (yester ra) went forth and multipliedCommandment 1 – (yester ra) = go forth be fruitful and multiplyThe Archon – as seen (visible) bane elohiym (offspring of the Beast) – taking on human form - driven by (yester ra) went forth and multiplied Commandment 1 – (yester ra) = go forth be fruitful and multiply AND VIOLATING - Commandment 2- reproduce after your own kind---------------------------- For their SINJud 1:6 And the angels (messengers of the Beast/ archon)—who did not keep their own position of authority but deserted their proper place—He has kept in everlasting shackles under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great Day. 2Pe 2:4 For God did not spare angels when they sinned, but threw them into Sheol. He put them in chains of gloomy darkness, to be held until the judgment. 2nd Book of Enoch18:1 THE men took me on to the fifth heaven and placed me, and there I saw many and countless soldiers, called Grigori, of human appearance, and their size was greater than that of great giants and their faces withered, and the silence of their mouths perpetual, and there was no service on the fifth heaven, and I said to the men who were with me:
2 Wherefore are these very withered and their faces melancholy, and their mouths silent, and wherefore is there no service on this heaven?
3 And they said to me: These are the Grigori, who with their prince Satanail rejected the Lord of light, and after them are those who are held in great darkness on the second heaven, and three of them went down on to earth from the Lord's throne, to the place Ermon, and broke through their vows on the shoulder of the hill Ermon 1 and saw the daughters of men how good they are, and took to themselves wives, and befouled the earth with their deeds, who in all times of their age made lawlessness and mixing, and giants are born and marvellous big men and great enmity.
4 And therefore God judged them with great judgement, and they weep for their brethren and they will be punished on the Lord's great day.The Book of JubileesNoah's Sons led astray by Evil Spirits; Noah's Prayer; Mastêmâ; Death of Noah (x. 1-17; cf. Gen. ix. 28) 10:7. And the Lord our God bade us to bind all. 1 8. And the chief of the spirits, Mastêmâ, 2 came and said: "Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them hearken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men; for these are for corruption and leading astray before my judgment, for great is the wickedness of the sons of men." 9. And He said: "Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation." 3 10. And one of us 4 He commanded that we should teach Noah all their medicines; for He knew that they would not walk in uprightness, nor strive in righteousness. 11. And we did according to all His words: all the malignant evil ones we bound in the place of condemnation, and a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan 5 on the earth. 12. And we explained to Noah all the medicines of their diseases, together with their seductions, how he might heal them with herbs of the earth. 13. And Noah wrote down all things in a book as we instructed him concerning every kind of medicine.10% of the Nephilim remain = Rephiem - the Sons of Anak - the 7 tribes of Amorite ANSWERING - why God ordered the genocydes of the ahl/OT1Sa 15:3 Now go and strike down Amalek and put all he has under the ban of destruction—so have no pity on him; but kill both men and women, children and nursing infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” Roberts teaching His satan god and his angels (FALLEN coverts) are the SINNING ANGELS Therefore – there is no satan in the WORLD – no demons in the WORLD Because they are all locked away
Then Robert teaches God must obey the 10 Commandment God can do no harm - cannot kill - or order man to kill and murder----------------------------------- Yaldabaoth and cast him down into Tartaros below the abyss. D" You seriously do not know the difference between tatatrus and hades? You better find out - Christian R" Must I? If the word is not commonly repeated it is not worthy of salvation, so one can ignore the theme. 2Pe 2:4 For God did not spare angels when they sinned, but threw them into Sheol. He put them in chains of gloomy darkness, to be held until the judgment. G5020 - ταρταρόω - From Τάρταρος Tartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); What is (the deepest abyss of Hades)Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. Where is this place - it cannot be Christian hell because Robet only has peaceful sleep in the grave
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are too, Then explain why the Beast and the False Prophets are already in the Lake of Fire BEFORE satan----------------- Please write some discussions this time, take your time too, make it detailed too.
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Post by Dave on Aug 13, 2022 16:33:36 GMT -5
EXPOSED: What the Rabbis may not want you to know... 14:38 min
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Post by Dave on Aug 14, 2022 7:03:57 GMT -5
Robert has suggested the follow web-sitewww.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/904960/jewish/Yesodei-haTorah-Chapter-One.htmI have never been to this web-site before today – it is Hasidic Judaism Can Angels Sin? – NOIn other words, only man has been endowed with the inclination for both good and bad. And only man has been given free choice to choose either one. An angel, on other hand, has no evil inclination and therefore no free choice. This would seem to mean that an angel is something like a robot, which cannot rebel or sin. Even the oft-cited example of the Satan as a rogue angel is a gross misunderstanding. Satan is merely the name of an angel whose divinely assigned task is to seduce people towards sin. This angel is also the prosecutor who levels charges in front of the heavenly court against those who succumb to his crafty seductions. The word satan simply means prosecutor in Hebrew. If the Heavenly court decides that it is time for someone to die, then the Satan is the one sent down to take his life. In fact, the Talmud tells us that "Satan, the urge to do evil, and the Angel of Death are all one."2 All these titles are simply multiple job descriptions for one angel. An angel fulfilling its divine duty is hardly in conflict with its own Creator.3 Is there any sort of Purgatory or Satan in Jewish teachings?According to Torah, no spiritual force opposes G‑d. This includes Satan, who is a spiritual entity that faithfully carries out its divinely assigned task of trying to seduce people to stumble. Satan is also identified with the Prosecutor above — that's what the word Satan itself means: it's just Hebrew for prosecutor — who levels charges against the guilty party who succumbs to its wily arguments. Look in the beginning chapter of the Book of Job and you'll see that clearly. In fact, the Talmud says, all that Satan does, he does for the sake of heaven. Without him, the defense attorney wouldn't bother to dig up all the merits of the defense. And the defense would have to try so hard to give himself more merits. So you see that really nothing happens in the entire world without G‑d approving. Jewish PurgatoryAccording to Judaism, the purifying process that a sullied soul undergoes to cleanse it from its spiritual uncleanliness is a temporary one, and is restorative in its intent, and not punitive, as many mistakenly believe. Ultimately, all Jews have portion in the World to Come, as do Righteous Gentiles, non-Jews who observe the Seven Noahide Commandments. Christ The Essence of THE Day – Yom KippurThe atonement obtained on this Day of Atonement does not result from one's repentance and self-purification but from its nature as a day of pardon and Divine revelation, emanating from G‑d Himself. ...acts which were done...may be considered as not having occurred at all. The very notion of pardon and atonement contains a conception of reality that transcends the bounds of common rationality. The recognition that there is pardon for sins means that, in some way, the past can be changed, that acts which were done, which existed in reality, may be considered as not having occurred at all. Hasidic Judaism 1- Angels CANNOT sin 2- ONY man has the choice 3- Jewish satan – is an angel of the Lord in service to the Lord 4- Jewish satan - Heavens Prosecutor 5- Jewish satan – does God’s dirty work 6- Jewish satan - does NOT oppose God 7- God is in absolute control – His Will – His Plan 8- All Jews are saved by promise – but Jews are men and men sin – purification for sin is required – Proportional Punishment – to each man his due – until purified 9- The Divine Pardon – sins of the past forgotten as if they never happened What does Gnostic Christianity add to this1- Jesus Christ is God incarnate – God on earth as the Son of Man – The Messiah 2- John 3:16 - The Divine Pardon is made easily accessible to all – Jew and non-Jew 3- The Cross was necessary for the RESURRECTION – proof that death is not the end – 4- LIFE LIVES – and will continue on to Proportional Punishment – possibly the Lake of Fire 5- Christian satan (satanas) = the Beast of Revelation = the serpent in the garden (archon) Col 1:16 – made by Him for Him John 1:3 – because God made it all Eph 5:12 – our real struggle 6- The Beast of Revelation - is NOT a god 7- The Beast of Revelation - is a thing of (some) matter - a created thing of this world 8- Classified / identified as BEAST - animal - selfish self-centered animal 9- The Beast of Revelation - has offspring (Gen 3:15) - a plurality we call devils(pl) and satanas(pl) 10- The offspring of the Beast - are the bane elohiym of Gen 6 Giving explanation to / for – Who was the serpent Who are the bane elohyim of Gen 6 Who are the Neplilim / Giants of Gen 6 The identity of the SINNING ANGELS of Jude and 2nd Peter Why all humanity became corrupt except Noah Why the Flood happened Why Babel was destroyed by God Why the Amorite were given 400 years to complete their iniquities – Gen 14 Explains the Nephilim of Jericho Who are the Rephiem – and why does God order and participates in their genocide Explains why even the pets and livestock were to be killed – contaminated gene pool Explains who are the other gods off the Levant – Baal, Molech, etc Explains all the ancient gods of the 99% - INCLUDING ANCIENT SPACE GODS Explains the – other gods of today – including UFOs Explains who the other gods of the Levant are TODAY Hasidic Judaism – DIFFERENCES – Gnostic Christianity1- The addition of the Messiah and the agl/NT Gospel – DUH This addition DOES NOT change Hasidic Judaism – just adds Jesus Christ as the Messiah 2- Gnostic Christianity – James, John, Paul, Peter, Philip, Thomas from the Nag Hammadi + Mathew, Mark, Luke, and Jude from the agl/NT – all speak of the Beast of Revelation – the old serpent – we call devils and satan – Paul call them our real struggle 3- Gnostic Archon = traditional Kabbalistic Jewish demonology = King Solomon’s Beelzebul and shedim / Lilith / satyrs 4- Gnostic Archon = traditional Kabbalistic Jewish demonology = Ancient and modern demonology / theology of the Levant (Middle East) TODAY = Islam –Allah – Iblis and the Jinn 5- Gnostic Archon = traditional Kabbalistic Jewish demonology = Ancient and modern demonology / theology of the entire WORLD Shedim / archon have offspring Enoch – Gen 6 = approx. 200 in all with 10/20 major players – infighting family units - demigods Egypt – approx. 200 gods – 15 major players – infighting family units –demigods Greece - approx. 200 gods – 15 major players – infighting family units –demigods Rome - approx. 200 gods – 15 major players – infighting family units –demigods Norse - approx. 200 gods – 15 major players – infighting family units –demigods Oceania – Philippines / indo-China / Pacific = approx. 200 gods – 15 major players – infighting family units –demigods Hinduism – 3000 other gods – reptilian - approx. 15 major players – infighting family units –demigods Hasidic Judaism – DIFFERENCES – DOES NOT SPEAK OF THIS AT ALLWhy – Dave’s answer – they will not give it a name If you give it a name you recognize it as real – names have powerwww.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2531/jewish/Reality-and-Its-Shadow.htmI searched shedim and got - Reality and Its ShadowSooner or later, everyone must come to grips with the Torah. Torah is the ultimate reality not only of Jewish existence, but of existence in general, and it simply can not be ignored. Moreover, the Torah was given specifically to the Jewish people, with the expectation that we would implement it and illuminate the world with it. For the past 3300 years this has been our consummate concern, and we have dedicated ourselves to this most difficult task in the face of incredible hostility. The world cannot exist without Torah, and it is our G‑d-given task to use it to refine and elevate the world. It is, therefore, imperative that we have some appreciation of what Torah is, and why it is of such monumental universal significance. Perhaps the easiest way to begin is by considering what the Torah is not. We live on a miniscule speck of dust floating around in the infinite void we call the universe. Where are we? What does it all mean? Why are we here? What, if anything, are we supposed to do? A commonly held view is that the Torah is G‑d’s response to these questions. … The natural, and seemingly logical, assumption in all of this is that the existence of the world, with its myriad details, complexities and possible problems, mandates the existence of Torah. I get this – I agree - the existence of the world, with its myriad details, complexities and possible problems, mandates the existence of Torah. – very JewishFor example, as every serious student of the Talmud knows, pits and oxen don’t mix. The regulations governing the potentially calamitous relationships between these two entities, as set forth in chapter 5 of Tractate Bava Kamma, are numerous and exceedingly complex. What is the extent of your liability if you dig a pit and my ox stumbles into it? It depends. How deep was the pit? Was the ox killed, or only injured? Did the ox fall into the pit because it was frightened by the noise of the digging? Did it fall backward or forward? And so on. One might reasonably suppose that since oxen and pits are facts of life, the Torah must implement laws to govern their many possible interactions, so as to insure harmony and justice in accordance with divine will. OK – pits and bulls – shit happens – life is hard Gen 3:15 – Torah is necessary to provide answersIn fact, the situation is just the reverse. Oxen and pits are not facts of life which the Torah must address; rather, the Torah is the fact of life that necessitates the existence of oxen and pits. Oxen and pits exist only so that some aspect of divine justice can be revealed and actualized through them. Hard life – Gen 3:15 is necessary so the Torah can be revealedThe world has no intrinsic reality. Its existence is required in order to provide garments in which Torah can be enclothed, and thus revealed to us within the framework of time and space. Very String Theory Physics – our 3D reality is an illusion of forces at the sub-atomic scaleTorah, then, is not an allegorical exposition designed to explain and give meaning to life, but rather life is an allegory through which we can grasp and materialize the transcendent divine will and wisdom as set forth in the Torah. Very Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 – all the evidence is there to REVEAL the Torah / GodThis concept is very difficult to appreciate, for the simple reason that the world does not seem like an allegory that refers to some transcendent reality propounded in Torah. On the contrary, the world gives every appearance of being real in and of itself, whereas the Torah seems somewhat theoretical and abstract. It is hard to imagine that the world is only a parable invented to reveal the primary reality of Torah. Intuitively, the opposite would appear to be the case. YES – WORLD is tangible – you can feel it – hot cold – hard – pain – hunger IT REQUIRES OUR ATTENTION God / spiritual – is intangible – requires a CHOICE from reasonThis paradox results from the natural tendency to confuse appearance with reality. We assume that what we see or experience is what there is. Experiential perception is immediate and compelling, whereas underlying causes which are accessible only through inference are frequently hard to accept. Paul – Rom chpt 7 – oh what a miserable man I am – the inner struggle I know (yester tov) but choose (yester ra) anyway because I am an animal
.. deleted a lot … blah blah blah …. We come into this world to serve God (Jer 1:5)Thus, although the opportunity is stupendous, the danger of error is very real. This might be viewed as a major disadvantage, an unfortunate and inescapable consequence of the process of divine concealment. In truth however, it is a remarkable blessing, in that it affords us free will. It confers upon us the responsibility of deciding what the world will be. A Rabbi will say – cannot do mitzvahs here without being here – can’t do mitzvahs without bodyIn the last analysis, how we view the world and how we operate in it decide its fate. We determine whether the world is the “world of lies” described in the Zohar, or whether it assumes an entirely different cast, also expressed in the Zohar: “G‑d looked in the Torah and created the world, so that man looks in the Torah and keeps the world alive.” Interesting the Hasidic view = Gen 18:23 Abraham drew near and said, “Will you really sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Gen 18:24 Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city. Will you really sweep away and not spare the place for the sake of fifty righteous who are in it? Gen 18:25 Far be it from You to do such a thing—to cause the righteous to die with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked share the same fate! Far be it from You! Shall the Judge of the whole world not exercise justice?” Christian would say 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some consider slowness. Rather, He is being patient toward you—not wanting anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance.
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Post by Dave on Aug 16, 2022 15:11:17 GMT -5
Satan, Reincarnation, Heaven - in LESS THAN 30 minutes 30:32 min
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2022 5:27:15 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, you really posted too much material, overwhelming to say the least, and all of it highly controversial. Where to begin?
I watched Rabbi Friedman...
4:25 God formed a body and breathed into a soul, and it was a man. Man is a body with a soul. Soul and body go their separate ways, body goes to ground. SOul goes back to where souls come from, whereever that is. Body by itself is not living, soul is living and gives the body life. The soul is always living. Soul cannot die, it is always living. Life can't die. Life after death? meaningless. Where does life goes when it leaves the body? I don't know.
Rob" Sounds like He is using 'soul' to mean 'ruwach' ? The Rabbi does not speak Hebrew terms?
SOul is more alive when it leaves the body...
17:40 Soul goes through hell, to remove earthly smell, than moves to paradise. Evil is not eternal, so good goes on forever.
Soul goes back to it's body, reward for soul, so the soul requires the body, the body shares in the reward, true reward they both come together in a perfect world.
Believe in Satan? Of course. Angel does what God tells him to do. Satan gets all the dirty jobs. Not at war with God, Greek mythology
Believe in Messiah. Yes, but not a matter of believing.... we need to come back to keeping all the commandments, the sooner He will come. 24:23 Soul loves doing mitsvah, the body hates doing mitsvah, so the body deserves a reward if doing a mitszvah. Birth happen, 40 days before, angel announces, announces how long soul is in the body, and who your going to marry, before you are conceived.
This time next year, it takes 9 months. Before conception, the soul has to get used to adjust to come down to a body. So it takes 12 months for a soul to be born.
Ressurrection, which body does soul come back to...? A soul can have more than one body. And the days drew near, for Yaccob to die, midrash says the days were going to die. Jacob wasn't going to die, the days run out. Time runs out. Jewish understand to life and death.
The Rabbi speaks of topics highly controversial. Where to begin?
Too much material and it is all very different to a plain reading of Scripture.
Rabbi" 4:25 God formed a body and breathed into a soul, and it was a man. Man is a body with a soul.
Rob" This is wrong already. SO if one thing is wrong, the whole video presentation is wrong also.
I will begin with this, as it is easiest to discuss.
Rabbi" 4:25 God formed a body and breathed into a soul, and it was a man. Man is a body with a soul.
The soul is not separate from the body.
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The verse says Dust ---> Body and GOD breathe into the body the "ruwach/nashamah of chay" and man became a living soul "nephesh".
The Rabbi says "body + soul = living man".
The Hebrew torah say, "body + breath of life = soul"
The Rabbi has a totally different slant on the Bible verse for a living man.
I quote from the Hasidic Jewish website:
"9 The form of this soul is not a combination of the fundamental [elements] into which it will ultimately decompose, nor does it come from the neshamah so that it would require the neshamah, as the neshamah requires the body. Rather, it is from God, from heaven.
Therefore, when the matter [of the body], which is a combination of the fundamental [elements], decomposes, and the neshamah ceases to exist - for [the neshamah] exists only together with the body and requires the body for all its deeds - this form will not be cut off, for this form does not require the neshamah for its deeds. Rather, it knows and comprehends knowledge which is above matter, knows the Creator of all things, and exists forever. In his wisdom, Solomon [gave this description (Ecclesiastes 12:7)]: "The dust will return to the Earth as it [originally] was, and the ruach will return to God who granted it."
This seems to be along my view of living and death, but is different to Rabbi Friedman video.
The Rabbi doesn't know where the soul goes after the body runs out of time with the soul... that is strange that God doesn't detail this?
Maybe another video of Friedman might clear up what he means by soul?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 17, 2022 10:22:42 GMT -5
Please write some discussions this time, take your time too, make it detailed too. Greetings Dave, you really posted too much material, overwhelming to say the least, and all of it highly controversial. So – it is official – you are unsatisfied if I give you what you ask Where to begin?Begin at the beginning – take your time – Ponder / consider – you could at least watch the video I asked It is the intelligent academic approach to everything I watched Rabbi Friedman...So you watched that last video without any background? No point me doing the homework study for you. Your level of seriousness as a student is lacking – always looking for a short cut without doing the work Very academic Robert - just jump to the end and make negative comments because you skipped over the foundation 4:25 God formed a body and breathed into a soul, and it was a man. YEP – Gen 2:7 – an living creature man became a Human BeingMan is a body with a soul.Man = (body)+(soul) Man = (animal)+(spirit) Man = (flesh/biology)+(spirit) Man = (yester ra from biology)+(yester tov- from spirit) Man = (yester ra)+(yester tov) Where does life goes when it leaves the body? I don't know.DUH – returns to God – returns to where it came from Rob" Sounds like He is using 'soul' to mean 'ruwach' ? Correct – spirit = spirit When inside a body – the spirit = soul Ecc 12:5 … —for a man is going to his eternal home, and mourners go about in the street— Ecc 12:6 before the silver cord is snapped, or the golden bowl is crushed, or the jug at the cistern is shattered, or the wheel at the well is broken. Ecc 12:7 Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Ecc 12:8 “Evanescent vapors,” says Kohelet. All is futility. The spirit is tied to the body – connected to the body – by the silver cordThe Rabbi does not speak Hebrew terms?This is Jewish theology – Hasidic – spiritual – as close to Christianity as it comes His audience is also not from the 1st Century BC Soul is more alive when it leaves the body...No longer limited by 3D reality Christ could walk through walls – appear and disappear – ascend and descend – into heaven 17:40 Soul goes through hell, to remove earthly smell, than moves to paradise.REMEMBER – CONTEXT – what you are hearing is all true – the DAY BEFORE JESUS CHRIST WAS BORNAll Jews are saved by promise – the Second Death is a New Testament addition to the theologyAll Jews – receive Proportion Punishment until purified unto the Divine Pardon Or – a Jew can receive the Divine Pardon – Joshua Zec 3 The idea that – some receive eternal damnation is a New Testament addition to the theologyEvil is not eternal, so good goes on forever.VERY NT TRUE and CORRECT – evil comes to an end at the end of Rev 20 Soul goes back to it's body, reward for soul, so the soul requires the body, the body shares in the reward, true reward they both come together in a perfect world.The Jewish version of Rev 21+22 - The New Heaven and Earth – a renewal of Eden Believe in Satan? Of course. Angel does what God tells him to do. Satan gets all the dirty jobs. Not at war with God, Greek mythology1- Hebrew satan = Heaven prosecutor – has nothing to do with Jewish demonology2- Jewish demonology = beelzebul and the shedim 3- Zorasterism + Doaism = two opposing gods (andf Ellen White’s SDA) 4- Greek mythology = The False god and his children in fighting as a family 5- Jewish demonology = the False god and his children in fighting as a family 6- Islamic demonology = the False god and his children in fighting as a family 7- Gnostic demonology = the False god and his children in fighting as a family 8- New Testament Beast = the False god and his children in fighting as a family Believe in Messiah. Yes, but not a matter of believing.... we need to come back to keeping all the commandments, the sooner He will come.24:23 Soul loves doing mitsvah, the body hates doing mitsvah, so the body deserves a reward if doing a mitszvah. YES – cannot do earthly mitzvahs without a body------------------------ Birth happen, 40 days before, angel announces, announces how long soul is in the body, and who your going to marry, before you are conceived. This time next year, it takes 9 months. Before conception, the soul has to get used to adjust to come down to a body. So it takes 12 months for a soul to be born.OK – I do not know where he gets his 40 day before Judaism always presents more than one explanation – Kabbalah The version I endorse = 9 months + 40 days – does not = 1 year 9 months in the womb (God holds your hand – teaches you the Torah) After birth – your body is too immature – and God continues to hold your hand THIS IS WHY ALL BABIES ARE HAPPY to be alive – God is with them holding their hand Looking into the face of an infant is as close to seeing the love of God in this world BUT – as the infant mature – (yester ra) starts to show itself – and God must leave you This takes about 90 days 9 months + 90 days = 1 year Ressurrection, which body does soul come back to...? A soul can have more than one body. YES Christianity DOES preach reincarnation – unless you deny the resurrectionYES – Judaism does teach reincarnation – as a chance for a do over – to be fair I will have this discussion after you cover the basics Too much material and it is all very different to a plain reading of Scripture.Why does it offend you to discover that real Judaism is very Christian in foundation?Rabbi" 4:25 God formed a body and breathed into a soul, and it was a man. Man is a body with a soul. Rob" This is wrong already. SO if one thing is wrong, the whole video presentation is wrong also.YES – there is that absolute Robert rule – that only applies to others – Christian HypocriteThe soul is not separate from the body. – you deny the New testament Gospel - ChristianJoh 3:6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and at home with the Lord. 2Co 5:9 So whether at home or absent, we make it our aim to be pleasing to Him. 2Co 12:2 I know a man in Messiah (whether in the body I don’t know, or whether out of the body I don’t know—God knows)—fourteen years ago, he was caught up to the third heaven. The Rabbi says "body + soul = living man". The Hebrew torah say, "body + breath of life = soul" Just your word gameThe Rabbi has a totally different slant on the Bible verse for a living man.Or you have a totally different view than the TorahI quote from the Hasidic Jewish website: "9 The form of this soul is not a combination of the fundamental [elements] into which it will ultimately decompose, nor does it come from the neshamah so that it would require the neshamah, as the neshamah requires the body. Rather, it is from God, from heaven. Therefore, when the matter [of the body], which is a combination of the fundamental [elements], decomposes, and the neshamah ceases to exist - for [the neshamah] exists only together with the body and requires the body for all its deeds - this form will not be cut off, for this form does not require the neshamah for its deeds. Rather, it knows and comprehends knowledge which is above matter, knows the Creator of all things, and exists forever. In his wisdom, Solomon [gave this description (Ecclesiastes 12:7)]: "The dust will return to the Earth as it [originally] was, and the ruach will return to God who granted it." This seems to be along my view of living and death, but is different to Rabbi Friedman video.You need to learn to read English this form does not require the neshamah for its deeds. Rather, it knows and comprehends knowledge which is above matter, knows the Creator of all things, and exists forever. In his wisdom, Solomon [gave this description (Ecclesiastes 12:7)]: "The dust will return to the Earth as it [originally] was, and the ruach will return to God who granted it."
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Post by Dave on Aug 20, 2022 11:05:51 GMT -5
Dear Robert
You have tried so hard to counter my statements – that you have built yourself a world of contradiction – now that you are caught up in it – you do not know how to get our gracefully – so the string of personal attacks – death throws of a Roman centric doctrine
You make everything a metaphor of something else – what an error Scripture means what it says - or it is invalid The only metaphor you refuse to admit to = Ezk 28 – for it is the foundation of your faith
1- Your “quote” SDA doctrine is founded upon the principle that – someone else is to blame for all the headaches in the world. Your satan plays an intragal role in your theology – Changed all DNA of all biology after Eve sinned Forced God to reconsider His own creation Forced God to react Rules all humanity AND – is responsible for everything you don’t like
Your satan is responsible for Eve’s sin – Adam’s sin – and your sin It’s not Eve’s fault – it’s not Adam’s fault – it’s not your fault – satan is to blame It is just an excuse
You grant your satan with entirely too much power You are giving the praise to the wrong god
Because of your satan beliefs – you cannot even admit that God is responsible for the Exodus
2- You teach this silly notion that God Himself must obey the 10 Commandments What other god might God worship? Who are God’s parents that He must honor? How can God steal or even covet –when it all belongs to God AND YES – God kills/Murders and instructs man to kill/Murder
3- TRUTH – it is all God’s Plan – it is all God’s Will It has always been God’s Plan and it will always be God’s Plan It has always been God’s Will and it will always be God’s Will
There is NO second creator – and NO ONE changed creation
4- The GREATEST PROMISE in Judaism is a personal one on one communion – Spirit to spirit - with the Lord The Greatest Promise of Christianity is a personal one on one Spirit to spirit communion with the Lord Jesus Christ promised the Baptism of the Holy Spirit – to be Born Again – First Fruits LIFE LIVES – in a spiritual reality
THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE RESSURECTION OF JESUS CHRIST = LIFE LIVES
You deny it all – no such thing as an eternal life – no such thing as spirit All you preach is biology – WORLD – because it is all you see – then the grave where you see nothing
5- Don Patton – Walter Veith – “Biblical Creationism” – IS A MISSDIRECTION Totally dependent upon magic God created tov – then your satan magically changed it all Vegetarian sharks magically changed into carnivores
ABSOLUTE CONTRODICTION WITH Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 + all the empirical evidence that point to an Intelligent Design
Why would a Christian argue against the concept of an Intelligent Designer? How can any Christian argue against Incremental Creation? Why is it offensive to a Christian if science validates scripture?
6- SATAN Hebrew satan – Zec 3 = heavens Prosecutor – and angel of the Lord in service to the Lord Hebrew satan 23+49 verses - and angel of the Lord in service to the Lord
Jewish demonology = beeelzebul and the shedim – creatures (NOT ANGELS) – can appear / disappear / manipulate nature / offspring – family units – in fight – demigods / Nephilim → ‘other gods’ → Rephiem → 7 tribes of Amorite Jewish demonology – validated by Jesus Christ → Beelzebub
The demonology of the Levant The demonology of the ‘other gods’ → Iblis (Allah) and the Jinn - creatures (NOT ANGELS) – can appear / disappear / manipulate nature / offspring – family units – in fight – demigods
Demonology of New Testament Paul – ARCHON – and James, John, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas The BEAST of Revelation – the serpent / reptilian race – we call devils and satanas creatures (NOT ANGELS) – can appear / disappear / manipulate nature / offspring – family units – in fight – demigods / Nephilim → ‘other gods’ → Rephiem → 7 tribes of Amorite
Theology / demonology of the 99% = creatures (NOT ANGELS) – MANY serpent / snake / reptilian gods / demons - can appear / disappear / manipulate nature / offspring – family units – in fight – demigods
Gnostic Christian demonology = Your “quote” SDA doctrine is founded upon the principle that – someone else is to blame for all the headaches in the world. Your satan plays an intragal role in your theology
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
Question my Christian friend WHO CAN - destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. – at the Lake of Fire / Second Death Answer – only God
Question my Christian friend WHO SHOULD WE fear the One who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. Answer – only God
Question my Christian friend Are we told to live in fear of your satan Answer – NO - do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.
Judaism / Gnostic Christianity – recognize satan for what he is – a BEAST of this WORLD YES – he / they are our real struggle YES – they were created by God for God YES – they can cause my body death – but they cannot hurt me – because I am not the body
BUT – this in NOT the focal point of Judaism or Gnostic Christianity THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE RESSURECTION OF JESUS CHRIST = LIFE LIVES We are called to wake up to the spiritual reality We are called for more than just to follow
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2022 17:51:16 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, You write a very long post, So nice of you. Thanks. The biggest different between us is your God created all things only ONCE, all and angels and all the archon nasty creatures all at once, so nothing CAME to be, everything is created, including SIN.
But the archons creatures are not morally SINNING, they do what they are programmed to do, yet used their intelligent minds to become opposing elohiym powers, wanting worship to themselves. This false religion caused the Father to write in the ten commandments "no other elohiym powers" but me only. So this means the "false elohiym powers" were set up by the Father, but they became false witnesses, so the Father ejected them from heaven unto the earth. You have no verses where the SHAD came from? Only your Gnostic scrolls detail the creation of the SHAD by the Father like some aborted fetus under the expression of the Holy Spirit, where the left hand does not become aware of what the right hand is doing? God must some how neglect what is doing?
You also have this idea that God creates with entropy naturally, so we have this idea that God created a "flawed world" for all creatures to live in, that matter comes inherently with RA. I do not like this idea, for it make my God no longer almighty and make my God responsible for sinning.
D"You make everything a metaphor of something else R" I have you to comment on my two lines of poetry, but you refuse, so we have no agreement over the terms of poetry.
------------------ D"1- Your “quote” SDA doctrine is founded upon the principle that – someone else is to blame for all the headaches in the world. R" NO not blame, but an agent for SIN. The daily sinning we humans do comes from within ourselves. You have the ARAM creature talking to EVE, so you also agree an agent is necessary to facilitate SIN within EVE. So stop mocking my view, when you have the same AGENT. Did Eve blame the AGENT? Yes Ge 3:13 And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
R "so stop saying you have no AGENT, for SIN, because you require one, and it is here influencing Eve to SIN.
D"Changed all DNA of all biology after Eve sinned R" Not all, some. Why do you deny Scripture?
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
D"Forced God to reconsider His own creation R" NO, if the cherub sinned first and was banished to earth rock void and deformed, than GOD knew sin already existed, so took careful plans to design a creation that could exist sinlessly or with God's missing, in either case, as carefully controlled depending upon what Adam chooses. Got nothing to do with an opposing sinning angel.
Rain, snow , volcanoes and flood all from GOD. D"Forced God to react R" forced? no, God planned for SINNING to come, because God had a sin problem to deal with.
D"Your satan is responsible for Eve’s sin – Adam’s sin – and your sin R" Not responsible, but an AGENT.
D"You grant your satan with entirely too much power R" I do not. Before this forum I never spoke much of the opposer.
SDA do not empower the opposer in our lives, we fight the fight of faith. SO you are Wrong. You introduced me archons, not me. You grant the archons entirely too much power. I don't.
D"2- You teach this silly notion that God Himself must obey the 10 Commandments R" Otherwise God cannot be a fair judge.
D"What other god might God worship? R" Easy, independently themselves. But they don't. They have no independence, they function as echad, compound unity. Unlike Greek pagan notion of Zeus and Athena doing as they please.
D"Who are God’s parents that He must honor? R" YOu introduce the notion that God was brought out by something. The great uncaused cause, has no cause, otherwise it is not infinite. God are parents, not requires parents before them.
D"How can God steal or even covet –when it all belongs to God R" Covet themselves, become independent? but they choose not to, they function as one. Once source of love, not three springs, but one spring.
D"AND YES – God kills/Murders and instructs man to kill/Murder R" God does not wound a human, they are given a probation time to choose God, than after that God removes His living from them,.
You see this as a killing, no it is a striking Zec 14:12 And this shall be the "striking" wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
The people fall apart, atom by atom, until they cease to exist. Where is the killing in this? God is removed from within, not killing them from outside coming in.
D"3- TRUTH – it is all God’s Plan – it is all God’s Will R" So SIN and SINNING is included in your view Dave? It was God's plan to Design SIN and SINNING too?
Is that your view? Not my view.... SIN came in mysteriously.
D"There is NO second creator – and NO ONE changed creation R" agreed, but a mischief maker did mischief though...
D"Jesus Christ promised the Baptism of the Holy Spirit R" so you seek the HS as your new spirit to spirit mystic communion?
in my view Jesus Christ promised to enter all the redeemed as His eternally living power, via the compassion -centre of the HS when you accept Jesus Christ by faith In His words.
D"to be Born Again – First Fruits R" How can your spirit be born again, if it is already eternal as a spirit?
in my view, you are required to make your old spirit die and leave it in the grave for ever dead, so you rise in the spirit of Jesus, and live under His spirit, your old spirit is left in the grave, dead.
In your view, you have no born again spirit?
D"Vegetarian sharks magically changed into carnivores R" Sharks used their teeth to peel off algae growing on rocks.
I saw the other day in my mulched pile of clover, fly maggots growing in the clover mulch? What? I thought maggots grow in dead protein, did not realize how much protein was in clover? So why do flies choose dead animals? because their dead rich plants are not around? You assume too much Dave, and get off track.
I also see dogs in PNG using their teeth to eat coconuts, every dog in PNG is a vegetarian dog.
D"Hebrew satan – Zec 3 = heavens Prosecutor – and angel of the Lord in service to the Lord
R" How is this a heavenly prosecutor? No high priest in heaven back in this time? Only a reference to earth temple and earth high priest, so your premise is wrong.
HIgh priest functions never require prosecutors? show me your Bible verses?
God declared to the opposer God saved Job....the opposer objects because the opposer does not want humans saved....
D"Jewish demonology = beeelzebul and the shedim – creatures (NOT ANGELS) – can appear / disappear R" Not a single Hebrew text where they come from?
D"Gnostic Christian demonology R" correct - Gnostic origin only....
you ignore the Ezekiel 28 origin of cherubs sinned
D"Your “quote” SDA doctrine is founded upon the principle that – someone else is to blame for all the headaches in the world. Your satan plays an intragal role in your theology R" Your “quote” Gnostic doctrine is founded upon the principle that – someone else is to blame for all the headaches in the world. Your Archons plays an intregal role in your theology
R" You have the same players yourself, a word game.
D"THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE RESSURECTION OF JESUS CHRIST = LIFE LIVES R" if the spirit is eternal why do you need proof the eternal spirit lives? RESSURECTION OF JESUS CHRIST proves the mischief maker mischief was dealt with, hence I live in Jesus and the mischief maker dies for his mischief.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 21, 2022 4:23:55 GMT -5
The biggest different between us is your God created all things only ONCE, all and angels and all the archon nasty creatures all at once, so nothing CAME to be, everything is created, including SIN. But the archons creatures are not morally SINNING, they do what they are programmed to do, yet used their intelligent minds to become opposing elohiym powers, wanting worship to themselves. YEP – just like Caesar - just a biological creature – using his intelligence – to be a god This false religion caused the Father to write in the ten commandments "no other elohiym powers" but me only. So this means the "false elohiym powers" were set up by the Father, YES – God left the 99% to other gods – so that Israel could Jer 1:5You have no verses where the SHAD came from? Only your Gnostic scrolls detail the creation of the SHAD by the Father YES – they were created by the Father for the Father – and Christ is the image of GodCol 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. Col 1:17 He exists before everything, and in Him all holds together. You also have this idea that God creates with entropy naturally, so we have this idea that God created a "flawed world" for all creatures to live in, that matter comes inherently with RA. You call it flawed – God said it was tov – Gen 1:31------------------ D"1- Your “quote” SDA doctrine is founded upon the principle that – someone else is to blame for all the headaches in the world. R" NO not blame, but an agent for SINNO not to blame just responsible for it - what a word gameYou have the ARAM creature talking to EVE, so you also agree an agent is necessary to facilitate SIN within EVE. So stop mocking my view, when you have the same AGENT. YES – they facilitate – they do not rule or force anyone The choice is always yours / man’s R "so stop saying you have no AGENT, for SIN, I totally accept the archon in all their forms – they are NOT FALLEN ANGELS THAT OPPOSE GODD"Changed all DNA of all biology after Eve sinned R" Not all, some. Why do you deny Scripture? Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, How does this validate a change in DNA?D"Forced God to reconsider His own creation R" NO, if the cherub sinned first and was banished to earth rock void and deformed, than GOD knew sin already existed, so took careful plans to design a creation that could exist sinlessly or with God's missing, in either case, as carefully controlled depending upon what Adam chooses. Got nothing to do with an opposing sinning angel.Rain, snow , volcanoes and flood all from GOD. Finally we agree – all God’s Plan – all God’s WillD"Forced God to react R" forced? no, God planned for SINNING Finally we agree – all God’s Plan – all God’s WillD"Your satan is responsible for Eve’s sin – Adam’s sin – and your sin R" Not responsible, but an AGENT. Finally we agree – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will NOT satan’s fault – man’s faultD"You grant your satan with entirely too much power R" I do not. Before this forum I never spoke much of the opposer. SDA do not empower the opposer in our lives, we fight the fight of faith. You elevate satan to god hood opposing God in heaven and earthD"3- TRUTH – it is all God’s Plan – it is all God’s Will R" So SIN and SINNING is included in your view Dave? It was God's plan to Design SIN and SINNING too?
D"There is NO second creator – and NO ONE changed creation R" agreed, but a mischief maker did mischief though... Who then changed all of God’s creation by changing all the DNA within biology
D"Jesus Christ promised the Baptism of the Holy Spirit R" so you seek the HS as your new spirit to spirit mystic communion?ABSOLUTELY (google) What is the promise of the Comforter? Jesus was leaving. He was going to be with His Father, but He would not leave us alone, like orphans. He knew that it was better for us that He went away. He promised to send the Holy Spirit (The Comforter) who is the Spirit of Truth, to be with us and in us forever. D"to be Born Again – First Fruits R" How can your spirit be born again, if it is already eternal as a spirit?Nicodemus asked the same question –Joh 3:6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. Joh 3:7 Do not be surprised that I said to you, ‘You all must be born from above.’ Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” Joh 3:9 How can these things happen?” Nicodemus said. Joh 3:10 Yeshua answered him, “You’re a teacher of Israel and you do not understand these things?D"Vegetarian sharks magically changed into carnivores R" Sharks used their teeth to peel off algae growing on rocks. 8th grade creation science - or lessD"Hebrew satan – Zec 3 = heavens Prosecutor – and angel of the Lord in service to the Lord R" How is this a heavenly prosecutor? …your premise is wrong. HIgh priest functions never require prosecutors? show me your Bible verses? Every Jewish and CHRISTIAN commentary of Zec 3 recognizes the prosecutorD"Jewish demonology = beeelzebul and the shedim – creatures (NOT ANGELS) – can appear / disappear R" Not a single Hebrew text where they come from? Except Col 1:16 of the agl/NT – why do you dent the New testament Gospelyou ignore the Ezekiel 28 origin of cherubs sinned Why do you dent the New testament Gospel Why do you preach that angels can turn against God and oppose the One True Creator D"Your “quote” SDA doctrine is founded upon the principle that – someone else is to blame for all the headaches in the world. Your satan plays an intragal role in your theology R" You have the same players yourself, a word game. Created by God for God – not opposing the creator in a war between two gods in heavenD"THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE RESSURECTION OF JESUS CHRIST = LIFE LIVES R" if the spirit is eternal why do you need proof the eternal spirit lives? YOU NEED PROOF – even after the resurrection you teach Jesus Christ is eternally dead in the grave D "OK – why do you say Jesus is dead R" How can Jesus be dead if He is our High priest in heaven? D "So your god is dead – died upon the cross - dead for all eternityR" No, Jesus fully human has the breath of life making his soul live Then why do you preach that God is dead PLEASE MAKE UP YOUR MIND RESSURECTION OF JESUS CHRIST proves the mischief maker mischief was dealt with, hence I live in Jesus and the mischief maker dies for his mischief. OH your satan is dead – and no longer exist – how relieved you must be If this is true what happens to your Great Controversy – its over
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 16:03:04 GMT -5
D"I totally accept the archon in all their forms – they are NOT FALLEN ANGELS THAT OPPOSE GOD R" OK your archons are intelligent and make false witness, so the Father has to dispose of them in the Lake if Fire. You have agreed with me on this.
That proves the archons are opposing the Father, because the Father judges archons for doing more than tempting humans. You just goofed. ----------------------
DP"There is NO second creator – and NO ONE changed creation RP" agreed, but a mischief maker did mischief though... D" Who then changed all of God’s creation by changing all the DNA within biology R" The mischief maker did, by spoiling God's creation as a spoiler, not as a second creator..... OK get my point?
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DP"Jesus Christ promised the Baptism of the Holy Spirit RP" so you seek the HS as your new spirit to spirit mystic communion? D" ABSOLUTELY R" So does this mean you pray directly to the Holy Spirit ? You were baptized in the Holy Spirit? You seek communion through the Holy Spirit?
Why do you do this, if the Holy Spirit is just an expression of the Father?
Why don't you seek Jesus instead, and be baptised in Jesus name? and seek communion in Jesus instead? This is my view, salvation only comes by Jesus.
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D"Every Jewish and CHRISTIAN commentary of Zec 3 recognizes the prosecutor
Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
R" The first verse has both noun and verb forms of the same Hebrew word, thus has to have the same meaning, only differences in action. The KJV does NOT do this.
Zec 3:1 (YLT) And he sheweth me Joshua the high priest standing before the messenger of Jehovah, and the Adversary standing at his right hand, to be an adversary to him.
The Youngs Literal does an excellent job.
I will check Youngs for consistency:
Nu 22:22 (YLT) and the anger of God burneth because he is going, and a messenger of Jehovah stationeth himself in the way for an adversary to him, and he is riding on his ass, and two of his servants [are] with him,
Young's is consistent and brilliant.
However I find and "adversary" is somebody who "opposes" you as an "opponent" does? So why the need to pick a bigger English word, when a simpler one fits?
How this is happening on earth, in Jersaluem within the temple where Joshua is functioning as High Priest.
Does Lev 16, on Day of Atonement, another detail account of functions of High Priest, have any indications of some prosecutor function? No
None is suggested here either.
--------------comments by Adam Clarke The Angel of the Lord is the Messiah, as we have seen before; Joshua, the high priest, may here represent the whole Jewish people; and Satan, the grand accuser of the brethren. What the subject of dispute was, we perhaps learn from Jude 1:9. Michael and Satan disputed about the body of Moses. This could not refer to the natural body of the Jewish lawgiver, which had been dead about one thousand years; it must therefore refer to that body of laws given to the Jews by Moses, for the breach of which Satan, who was their tempter to disobedience, now comes forward as their accuser; This was Satan's design, who accuses the followers of God day and night. See Re 12:10. ----------------------------------- Zec 3:1599 Geneva Bible Notes: 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest (a) standing before the angel of the LORD, and (b) Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. (a) He prayed to Christ the Mediator for the state of the Church. (b) Which declares that the faithful do not only war with flesh and blood, but with Satan himself, and spiritual wickedness; Eph 6:12. --------------------------------------------- Rob" You have to supply evidence of your claim, I find you are wrong. --------------------------------------------
D"Why do you preach that angels can turn against God and oppose the One True Creator
R" Well torah records the cherub sinned ? Duh Angels have intelligence and can reason, thus sin. Angels also can repent, thus have free will. Many angels chose not to repent.
D"Created by God for God – not opposing the creator in a war between two gods in heaven R" Are you saying the Father created false elohiym creatures on purpose, and this no worship of false elohiym creatures is all part of the plan by the Father?
SO you are saying the Father planned SIN to occur so the Father could glorify Himself from His created plan?
D"even after the resurrection you teach Jesus Christ is eternally dead in the grave Then why do you preach that God is dead R" I never said that.... Stop mocking and misquoting me.
A sinless human cannot pay for mischief , life for life penalty, because once the human dies, his body decays during the 3 days and 3 nights before the Father breaths life back into the soul.
So a divine sinless being encapsulated with humanity is required, so the body is kept alive during the second death time by inherent divinity. The eternal nature of the sacrifice comes from the far reaching penalty, "life for life" , is a different theme, I have commented upon already.
D"If this is true what happens to your Great Controversy – its over R" If you study Lev 16, the scape goat dies later after He is judged. The final judgement of the Opposer comes later, so the Controversy is still unfolding until than.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 21, 2022 20:23:06 GMT -5
D"I totally accept the archon in all their forms – they are NOT FALLEN ANGELS THAT OPPOSE GOD R" OK your archons are intelligent and make false witness, so the Father has to dispose of them in the Lake if Fire. You have agreed with me on this. YES – there are a group of 200 or so – the Watchers of Enoch – Gen 6 → Nephilim → Rephiem → 13 Family → the cause of the Flood → locked away in chains / prison → “sinning angels”
That proves the archons are opposing the Father, because the Father judges archons for doing more than tempting humans. You just goofed. Their crime was to reproduce out of their own kind And became the ‘other gods’ of the 99% All part of God’s Plan – all part of God’s Will – used to set the stage for the Great Contest Between man and WORLD and man and archon the rulers of this WORLD---------------------- DP"There is NO second creator – and NO ONE changed creation RP" agreed, but a mischief maker did mischief though... D" Who then changed all of God’s creation by changing all the DNA within biology R" The mischief maker did, by spoiling God's creation as a spoiler, not as a second creator..... OK get my point? Entropy – things spoil – wind down – move farther away from God You have absolutely rejected this concept for 3 years – noce to see you have come around---------------------------------------- DP"Jesus Christ promised the Baptism of the Holy Spirit RP" so you seek the HS as your new spirit to spirit mystic communion? D" ABSOLUTELY R" So does this mean you pray directly to the Holy Spirit ? – the goal is to pray in the spiritYou were baptized in the Holy Spirit? – I have felt the Lord – I feel his hand in my life You seek communion through the Holy Spirit? – Communion with the Spirit – praying through the spirit Why do you do this, if the Holy Spirit is just an expression of the Father?You admit you do not understand the desire to commune with GOD one on one Why in the world of any religion you would not understand this--------------------- Why don't you seek Jesus instead, and be baptised in Jesus name? and seek communion in Jesus instead? This is my view, salvation only comes by Jesus. Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread. Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. My prayers are PRAISE to the LORDThank Him for my life – thank him for my troubles – and thank Him for my blessings Thank Him for His Love and His Gift I ask only for revelation / patience / and strength BUT it is not my will BUT HIS WILL BE DONE I do not ask for forgiveness – I thank Him for His Grace The guidance I pray for is the Comforter – to be led by the Spirit – to experience the Holy Spirit BUT it is not my will BUT HIS WILL BE DONE I used the expression – use me oh Lord 100 Bible Verses about Praying In The Spirit - OpenBible.info www.openbible.info › topics › praying_in_the_s... Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too ... Acts 2:1-47 Esv / 57 Helpful... · John 18:1-40 Esv / 11... · Isaiah 1:1-31 Esv / 10... 17 Bible verses about Asking In Jesus Namebible.knowing-jesus.com › topics › Asking-In-Je... John 14:13-14 - Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. I always conclude in His name----------------------------------------- D"Every Jewish and CHRISTIAN commentary of Zec 3 recognizes the prosecutor Zec 3:1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. R" The first verse has both noun and verb forms of the same Hebrew word, thus has to have the same meaning, only differences in action. The KJV does NOT do this. Zec 3:1 (YLT) And he sheweth me Joshua the high priest standing before the messenger of Jehovah, and the Adversary standing at his right hand, to be an adversary to him. The Youngs Literal does an excellent job.Admitted – I cannot do the Hebrew – but the Greek saysZec 3:1 Καὶ ἔδειξέν μοι Ἰησοῦν τὸν ἱερέα τὸν μέγαν ἑστῶτα πρὸ προσώπου ἀγγέλου κυρίου, καὶ ὁ διάβολος εἱστήκει ἐκ δεξιῶν αὐτοῦ τοῦ ἀντικεῖσθαι αὐτῷ. Καὶ ἔδειξέν μοι Ἰησοῦν τὸν ἱερέα τὸν μέγαν And – he showed me Joshua the priest the mighty ἑστῶτα πρὸ προσώπου ἀγγέλου κυρίου, standing in front of the front of the messenger/angel of the the Lordκαὶ ὁ διάβολος εἱστήκει ἐκ δεξιῶν αὐτοῦ τοῦ ἀντικεῖσθαι αὐτῷ. And the devil always stands at the right of HIM opposing into HIMHIM in this sentence = the High Priest - JoshuaYoung's is consistent and brilliant.YES – I also use YLTHowever I find and "adversary" is somebody who "opposes" you as an "opponent" does? So why the need to pick a bigger English word, when a simpler one fits? In a court with a Judge, and advocate, and an oppose – we call the oppose the ProsecutorHow this is happening on earth, in Jersaluem within the temple where Joshua is functioning as High Priest. The Nation is judged – and the Prosecutor accuses Israel of disobedienceDoes Lev 16, on Day of Atonement, another detail account of functions of High Priest, have any indications of some prosecutor function? No The High Priest asks atonement for the sins the Prosecutor accuses Israel of2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? YES – THE DIVINE PARDON Stand down prosecutor – charges dropped--------------comments by Adam Clarke The Angel of the Lord is the Messiah, as we have seen before; Joshua, the high priest, may here represent the whole Jewish people; and Satan, YEP – a person or a nation the grand accuser of the brethren. We know this is the beast Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. He was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven saying, “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Anointed One, for the accuser of our brothers and sisters—the one who accuses them before our God day and night—has been thrown out. What the subject of dispute was, we perhaps learn from Jude 1:9. Michael and Satan disputed about the body of Moses. This could not refer to the natural body of the Jewish lawgiver, which had been dead about one thousand years; it must therefore refer to that body of laws given to the Jews by Moses, for the breach of which Satan, who was their tempter to disobedience, now comes forward as their accuser; This was Satan's design, who accuses the followers of God day and night. See Re 12:10. Adam Clark is a Roman Christian Hebrew satan is NOT the BEAST The Beast = Jewish satan – who tempts the people (beelzebul and the shedim (Archon)----------------------------------- Zec 3:1599 Geneva Bible Notes: 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest (a) standing before the angel of the LORD, and (b) Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. (a) He prayed to Christ the Mediator for the state of the Church. (b) Which declares that the faithful do not only war with flesh and blood, but with Satan himself, and spiritual wickedness; Eph 6:12. YES – Eph 6:12 – archon – totally agree No satan mentioned in Eph 6:12 only archon--------------------------------------------- D"Why do you preach that angels can turn against God and oppose the One True Creator R" Well torah records the cherub sinned ? Duh That is all you have you famous two word doctrine – Ezk 28 YET – precept upon precept, ine upon line – 23+49 of them – not once did scripture validate your doctrine – in each and every verse your satan was opposing man in the service of the Lord D"Created by God for God – not opposing the creator in a war between two gods in heaven R" Are you saying the Father created false elohiym creatures on purpose, and this no worship of false elohiym creatures is all part of the plan by the Father? God sent Moses unto Pharaoh – and God hardened Pharaoh’s heartYES – God set the stage for events to unfoldWhy did God leave the 99% to other godsThe only answer = God’s Plan – God’s Will – God is in control YES – God set the stage for events to unfoldGen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;YES – God set the stage for events to unfoldSO you are saying the Father planned SIN to occur so the Father could glorify Himself from His created plan? GOD knew sin already existed, so took careful plans to design a creation that could exist sinlessly or with God's missing, in either case, as carefully controlled depending upon what Adam chooses. Got nothing to do with an opposing sinning angel. All God’s Plan – all God’s Will – thing only happened one way – God’s wayD"even after the resurrection you teach Jesus Christ is eternally dead in the grave Then why do you preach that God is dead R" I never said that.... Stop mocking and misquoting me. R" Moses died only the first death, a sleep. Those saved never die the second death, Jesus died the second death for us, so we are grateful to Jesus for this redemption. Why does it bother you when I quote you?The eternal nature of the sacrifice comes from the far reaching penalty, "life for life" , is a different theme, I have commented upon already. So the sacrifice upon the cross is not enough? John 3:16 is not enough? Explain ChristianD"If this is true what happens to your Great Controversy – its over R" If you study Lev 16, the scape goat dies later after He is judged. The final judgement of the Opposer comes later, so the Controversy is still unfolding until than. R" Moses died only the first death, a sleep. Those saved never die the second death, Jesus died the second death for us, so we are grateful to Jesus for this redemption. So Jesus is the scape goat and is dead – while your satan continues?Is this Ellen White or just you
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 5:15:27 GMT -5
D" All part of God’s Plan – all part of God’s Will – used to set the stage for the Great ContestR" If it is all part of the Father's plan, why does the Father judge them than? And throw them into Lake of Fire? -------------------------- Your comments on the "spirit" are confusing.... D"I do not ask for forgiveness – I thank Him for His GraceR" Arn't you aware of any missing faithful promises you forget to claim in His Name? ( I assume intentional transgressions are not on the menu?) D" The guidance I pray for is the Comforter – to be led by the Spirit R" My understanding of the role of the HS as a COmforter is to conduit the powers of Jesus into us, send prayers from us to Jesus, and to empower Jesus in us so we bear the fruits of His spirit, via the HS who lives in us in our living temple. D" I always conclude in His nameR" NIce ------------------------ D" In a court with a Judge, and advocate, and an oppose – we call the oppose the ProsecutorR" Yes, but the functions of a HIgh Priest, is never a judgement scene, nor a court room, the Saviour is doing atonement for sins, not judging us for wrong doing. There is an element of humility and awe as the High Priest goes into the holy holy place on the Yom Kippor day, in case God does not atone for sins, the people listened to the tinkling of bells, but again I do not see High Priest atonement as a court room with judges and prosecutors? D"T he Nation is judged – and the Prosecutor accuses Israel of disobedienceR" I don't see this? DO you have any Jews agreeing on this idea, that a HIgh Priest functions always in a court room, judging sinners over their sinning? D" The High Priest asks atonement for the sins the Prosecutor accuses Israel ofR" Ahrr no. The high priest does atonement, it's not asking atonement. Show me Bible verses where people are judged for sinning while they are alive.... judgement happens after we die, and our records are investigated than, not while we are alive. And even in Rev 19 - 20, during the great judgement, I do not see any court room with prosecutor? Do you have Jewish videos on your prosecutor idea? SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 22, 2022 11:13:45 GMT -5
Your comments on the "spirit" are confusing.... D"I do not ask for forgiveness – I thank Him for His Grace R" Arn't you aware of any missing faithful promises you forget to claim in His Name? ( I assume intentional transgressions are not on the menu?)
Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
I have forgiveness – Christ died for my sins long ago – ONCE WAS ENOUGH FOR ALL I have confidence in it – I trust in it – I have faith in it – because it is real
Confession is not the act of asking forgiveness – it is admission of how much you appreciate that forgiveness – it is about praise to the father for John 3:16
Do I need to regurgitate a long list of sins that the Father already knows about Do I need to apologies for being an animal – God knows I am an animal
Mat 6:8 … for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
What we need is a kick in the ass – how often do we ask for it? We can only ask for what we WANT – has nothing to do with what we NEED
If you WANT forgiveness for a thing – you NEED to believe John 3:16 Once you believe in John 3:16 – you are overwhelmed with PRAISE for the GIFT of GRACE …………….
The words of a Born Again Christian
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Torah sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the Torah. For I would not have known about coveting if the Torah had not said, “You shall not covet.” Rom 7:8 But sin, taking an opportunity, worked in me through the commandment all kinds of coveting. For apart from the Torah, sin is dead. Rom 7:9 Once I was alive apart from the Torah; but when the commandment came, sin came to life Rom 7:10 and I died. The commandment meant for life was found to cause death. Rom 7:11 Sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. Rom 7:12 So then, the Torah is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. Rom 7:13 Therefore did that which is good become death to me? May it never be! Rather it was sin working death in me—through that which is good—so that sin might be shown to be sin, and that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.
through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful What commandment could this be?
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion … (yester ra) leading to sin
Rom 7:14 For we know that the Torah is spiritual; but I am of the flesh, sold to sin. (yester ra) –vrs- (yester tov) The inner struggle between the desires of the flesh –vrs- the desires of the soul
Rom 7:15 For I do not understand what I am doing—for what I do not want, this I practice; but what I hate, this I do. Rom 7:16 But if I do what I do not want to do, then I agree with the Torah—that it is good. Rom 7:17 So now it is no longer I doing it, but sin dwelling in me.
I am a 16-18 year old red blooded male – having an sexual desire = (yester ra) a thing of flesh
Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me—that is, in my flesh. For to will is present in me, but to do the good is not.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do; but the evil that I do not want, this I practice. Rom 7:20 But if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I doing it, but sin that dwells in me. Rom 7:21 So I find the principle—that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. Rom 7:22 For I delight in the Torah of God with respect to the inner man, Rom 7:23 but I see a different law in my body parts, battling against the law of my mind and bringing me into bondage under the law of sin which is in my body parts.
a different law in my body parts,(yester ra) battling against the law of my mind (yester tov)
The inner struggle between the desires of the flesh –vrs- the desires of the soul (yester ra) –vrs- (yester tov)
Rom 7:24 Miserable man that I am! …
Gospel of Thomas (69) Jesus said, "Blessed are they who have been persecuted within themselves. It is they who have truly come to know the father. Blessed are the hungry, for the belly of him who desires will be filled."
(82) Jesus said, "He who is near me is near the fire, and he who is far from me is far from the kingdom."
Gospel of Phillip Fear not the flesh nor love it. If you fear it, it will gain mastery over you. If you love it, it will swallow and paralyze you.
Rom 7:24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God—it is through Messiah Yeshua our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself serve the Torah of God; but with my flesh, I serve the law of sin.
Thanks be to God – Praise God By Grace – we are forgiven - through Messiah Yeshua
1Th 5:16 Rejoice always; 1Th 5:17 pray without ceasing; 1Th 5:18 in everything give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus to you-ward.
with my mind I myself serve the Torah of God Thank you for the sunrise – the day – the rain – my life – the opportunity to serve Thank you for the cold – helps me appreciate the warmth Thank you for being stuck in traffic – makes me realize how impatient I am or better organized I could be Thank you for this pain in my side – it only reminds me how little time I have here to Jer 1:5 Thank you for the stupid people in my life – only make me appreciate God’s Grace
God’s Grace – He loves me even tho I am totally undeserving – Thank You Jesus Even tho I am totally undeserving – Jesus gave His life for me anyway ---------------------
Gospel of Phillip He who has knowledge of the truth is a free man, but the free man does not sin, for "He who sins is the slave of sin" (Jn 8:34). Truth is the mother, knowledge the father. Those who think that sinning does not apply to them are called "free" by the world. Knowledge of the truth merely makes such people arrogant, which is what the words, "it makes them free" mean. It even gives them a sense of superiority over the whole world. YEP – arrogant one way righteous Christians
But "Love builds up" (1 Co 8:1). In fact, he who is really free, through knowledge, is a slave, because of love for those who have not yet been able to attain to the freedom of knowledge. Knowledge makes them capable of becoming free.
Mat 22:36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? Mat 22:37 And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment. Mat 22:39 And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Mat 22:40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.
How or what is the greatest gift of love we can share with our neighbor = Jer 1:5 Generate FRUIT – bring them to the Lord – witness ----------------------
D"The guidance I pray for is the Comforter – to be led by the Spirit R" My understanding of the role of the HS as a COmforter is to conduit the powers of Jesus into us, send prayers from us to Jesus, and to empower Jesus in us so we bear the fruits of His spirit, via the HS who lives in us in our living temple.
The Holy Spirit is NOT Catholic Mary or a Catholic Saint acting as an intercessor The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God The Holy Spirit is God Christ is the image of God The Holy Spirit is Christ in Spirit TRINITY
Walking in the Spirit is walking with God ------------------------
D"In a court with a Judge, and advocate, and an oppose – we call the oppose the Prosecutor R" Yes, but the functions of a HIgh Priest, is never a judgement scene, nor a court room, the Saviour is doing atonement for sins, not judging us for wrong doing. What sins – the ones Hebrew satan accuses us of
There is an element of humility and awe as the High Priest goes into the holy holy place on the Yom Kippor day, in case God does not atone for sins, the people listened to the tinkling of bells, but again I do not see High Priest atonement as a court room with judges and prosecutors? What sins – the ones Hebrew satan accuses us of
D"The Nation is judged – and the Prosecutor accuses Israel of disobedience R" I don't see this? DO you have any Jews agreeing on this idea, that a HIgh Priest functions always in a court room, judging sinners over their sinning? What sins – the ones satan accuses us of
I do not see any court room with prosecutor? Judgment happens in a judgment setting – Christ is our advocate – Hebrew satan is our Prosecutor
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 14:41:47 GMT -5
D"I have forgiveness – Christ died for my sins long ago – ONCE WAS ENOUGH FOR ALL I have confidence in it – I trust in it – I have faith in it – because it is real
Confession is not the act of asking forgiveness – it is admission of how much you appreciate that forgiveness – it is about praise to the father for John 3:16
Do I need to regurgitate a long list of sins that the Father already knows about Do I need to apologies for being an animal – God knows I am an animal
R" Hmm? Dave every hour of the day in my work, I might bang my head on the ladder, and I ask God why? Pride? I forgot to pray for protection, I do things in my own strength, so I am learning to pray more formally on my knees, throughout the day. When we do missing, we are missing opportunities to speak faith, praying for God to come into our lives every hour.
Ye are not animals, ye were bought with a price, and highly valuable in God's sight. Chata does not mean "transgression of the moral law" it means "missing the faith opportunities to have Jesus empower you"
Pesha means transgressions, and a supporter of Jesus does not sin these, nor can sin intentionally like this.
But missing happens daily and becomes the sin - not unto death - it is still a struggle to fight the good fight of faith.
My confessions of missing are specific as my lack of faith was specific, and we require Jesus as our High Priest to atone for that missing---
D"How or what is the greatest gift of love we can share with our neighbor = Jer 1:5 Generate FRUIT R" Yes, but to make fruit, one has to soak up water, and Sonlight and experience wilting on a daily basis, than comes fruit.
I love the similes in Bible poetry, we grow like trees by the river of living.
D"The Holy Spirit is NOT Catholic Mary or a Catholic Saint acting as an intercessor The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God The Holy Spirit is God Christ is the image of God The Holy Spirit is Christ in Spirit TRINITY R" Hmm? You have a weird way of looking at things.
The Ruwach is a medium Dave, something that carries something. The Holy Medium conduits the Spirit of God The Holy Medium is a member of Elohiym God The Holy Medium conduits Christ's Spirit into humans who seek Jesus. A Medium by definition cannot take an active part in salvation, otherwise it's not a medium. The medium is administrated by the SHADDAY, who is the HS in personal form as a divine Being. ------------------------
D"What sins – the ones Hebrew satan accuses us of R" No Dave, the ones the sinner confessed to, and sacrificed the pet lamb for his guilt, those confessions are transferred unto the temple mercy seat, are atoned for. Never at any stage is there need for a prosecutor...
D"Judgment happens in a judgment setting – Christ is our advocate – Hebrew satan is our Prosecutor R" OK show me a BIble verse for this scene ? There isn't any.
SHalom
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