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Post by Dave on Aug 21, 2022 20:34:31 GMT -5
D"Col 1:16 – archon – made by Him for Him R" So this means GOD intentionally designed archons and intentionally planned for SINNING to come into the human world, so the Father would have to be glorified with His special salvation plan for Sinning, all intentionally planned? D"Created by God for God – not opposing the creator in a war between two gods in heaven R" Are you saying the Father created false elohiym creatures on purpose, and this no worship of false elohiym creatures is all part of the plan by the Father? God placed Eve and the serpent together in the garden YES – God set the stage for events to unfoldGod sent Moses unto Pharaoh – and God hardened Pharaoh’s heartYES – God set the stage for events to unfoldWhy did God leave the 99% to other godsThe only answer = God’s Plan – God’s Will – God is in control YES – God set the stage for events to unfoldGen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;YES – God set the stage for events to unfoldSO you are saying the Father planned SIN to occur so the Father could glorify Himself from His created plan? GOD knew sin already existed, so took careful plans to design a creation that could exist sinlessly or with God's missing, in either case, as carefully controlled depending upon what Adam chooses. Got nothing to do with an opposing sinning angel. All God’s Plan – all God’s Will – thing only happened one way – God’s way You are saying GOD is the author of SIN, NOPE – I accept scriptureRom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin,BUT - GOD knew sin already existed, so took careful plans to design a creation that could exist sinlessly or with God's missing, in either case, as carefully controlled depending upon what Adam chooses. Got nothing to do with an opposing sinning angel. All God’s Plan – all God’s Will – thing only happened one way – God’s way[/quote] and intentionally can murder humans if God wants to?YES – God can end your living YES – God told Israel to commit genocide Always – to facilitate God’s Will upon the earth Mat 6:10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 13:34:17 GMT -5
Greetings Dave,
I had the Messanic Jewish writers send this email today, and it blows all your theories away....
I quote it in full, with my comments
Rob" An answer to prayer, God sends a Messanic Email on the subject of the All-Knowing Elohiym in heaven.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5) Shalom Rob, What does it mean that God knew Jeremiah before even one of his chromosomes and cells were formed?
If he knew Jeremiah before he was born, that means that God also knew you Rob, before you were born.
So, how does that affect your life, here on earth today? We’ll begin to discover those answers here. God Knows You The Hebrew word for know is yada (יָדַע). As in English, yada has a wide range of meanings from knowing someone intimately to knowing about them; from knowing how to do something to perceiving, learning, and experiencing something.
Rob" Yes correct. Yada, I find means to be "intimate" this includes having sex with someone, or knowing someone or something like the back of your hand. Yada appears 947 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, but we’ll focus here on what God knows about us and what it could mean that He knew us before He knit us in our mother's womb. In Scripture, we see that God has intimate knowledge of us at the depth of our character and soul:
He knows the hearts of all men (1 Kings 8:39; 2 Chronicles 6:30), those who are His servants (2 Samuel 7:20; Nahum 1:7; 1 Chronicles 17:18) and those who are false, vain, and deceitful (Job 11:11).
He keeps the lowly close to His thoughts, but only knows the haughty from afar (Psalm 138:6).
He knows our words before they are spoken (Psalm 139:4) and the distresses of our lives (Psalm 31:7).
And He knows you, Rob. “Even the hairs of your head are all numbered.” (Matthew 10:30)
"When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him? ... O Yehova, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!" (Psalm 8:3–9)"
There is nothing that we can say, think, or do that God doesn’t know! "Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD. "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD. (Jeremiah 23:24) And as David sings in Psalm 139:7: “Where can I flee from your presence?” But God also knows things before we do them. The “Song of Moses,” as it is called, describes how His Chosen People would behave once they entered their Promised Land (Deuteronomy 32). And we are told that God knew Abraham, Jeremiah, David, and Messiah Yeshua before the first cell of their embryos formed (Genesis 18:19; Jeremiah 1:5; Psalm 139:16; Isaiah 7:14, 9:6). Let’s now look at what that could mean. When Did God First Know You? -----------------------Rob" take note Dave----------"
The Greek Philosopher Plato (c. 424–347 BC) was not only a foundational figure in Western science, politics, and philosophy, He is also considered a founder of Western religion and spirituality. In Plato’s Theory of Forms and in his book Phaedo, he popularized the idea that we know what is beautiful and what is justice without even experiencing it because our souls knew it before we were born. Plato’s theory about this pre-existent soul helped the Greek world better explain their own ideas about reincarnation, a standard belief throughout Greek life.
Rob" Plato's theory of a soul pre-existing the body explains how it knows things before we are born"
Soon after Plato’s death (in the early 4th century BC), the Greeks conquered the nation of Israel and the Jewish People became “Hellenized,” incorporating Greek thought, practices, and culture into their own.
Though the pre-existence of souls was not found in the Hebrew Scriptures, we see it appear in gnostic writings, apocryphal books, and in Jewish literature from at least the 4th century BC. And it has continued until today.
"Rob" How interesting, the Messianic Jewish believers should write this about their own cultural heritage. The Messianic writers are saying they do not support Greek ideas, Jewish ideas that have become "Hellenized,” nor do they support Gnostic ideas "
For instance, a Jewish parable (midrash) tells us that “all the souls that have come into existence since Adam, and which` will be till the end of the world, were created in the six days of creation, all were in the Garden of Eden and at the giving of the Torah. (R. Yohanan in Midrash Tanhuma Pekudei 3, 250-300 AD) this.) (Our ministry does Not believe this.)
"Rob" Amazing this Messanic Email sent to me today !!!"
Over time, Jewish literature found a place for these souls to rest, a heavenly storehouse called a guf (literally, body), where souls wait to be assigned to their life vessels on earth. This idea of a guf has become mainstream Jewish thinking today, and it forms part of the Jewish teaching on reincarnation, a popular idea among Orthodox and secular Jewish communities alike. However, reincarnation is not found in the Tanakh (the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament).
Rob" so the idea of a pre-existing spirit inhabiting a body prepared for it, is described here by these Messanic Jewish writers as "reincarnation" and is NOT found in Hebrew OT torah"
We can confidently know that “it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment.” (Hebrews 9:27)
Rob" Here the Messanic Jews believe the same as my view"
And King Solomon wrote: “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5–6) “Under the sun” speaks of this life, but when the spirit returns to God as stated in Ecclesiastes 12:7, it refers to the next life. "And the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7)
Rob" SO Messanic Jews do not support the idea that the "spirit lives" at all, and this means that Rabbi Friedman is a Hellenized-Jew, not a "Pure-Hebrew-Torah-Judiasm supporter of truth".
There is another explanation for how God knew Jeremiah and even King David before they were born—one found in the Hebrew Scriptures alone. God is Omniscient which is the Driving Force of Bible Prophecy His “all-knowingness” is outside of time. God knows the past and future as NOW. “I am God, and there is no one like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My purpose shall stand, and I will fulfill my intention.’” (Isaiah 46:9–10; see also Isaiah 37:26) God’s all-knowingness, in fact, is the driving force behind Messianic prophecy. God’s omniscience is how He could meticulously appoint types and shadows of the Messiah (Deliverer/Redeemer) at key times along Israel’s history, such as Abraham and the binding of Isaac (Genesis 22), Joseph and the salvation of his family (Genesis 37–50), Moses and the first Passover (Exodus 12), King David and his kingdom (2 Samuel 7). God’s omniscience is how He could describe over millennia Messiah’s birth (Isaiah 7:14; 9:6), suffering and atonement (Isaiah 52:13–53:12), timing of His death (Daniel 9:26), as well as His coming again (Zechariah 12:10) and see it come to pass, just as He defined it.
Within the many meanings of God knowing Jeremiah beforehand—his character, his words, his whole life—is the idea that God also chose Jeremiah to be uniquely himself and to do certain things - to have a PURPOSE - in his life. We see this pattern throughout the Bible: First God chooses someone. Second, He sanctifies or sets the person apart. Third, He appoints them to service. When God chose the Jewish People, for example, He set them apart in the Land of Israel and gave them a purpose: to be a kingdom of priests, a holy nation that would bring others to the knowledge of the one true God of Israel and His coming Messiah. When God chose David, He set him apart by anointing him king. David not only “served God's purpose in his own generation,” he inaugurated a dynasty that would become a shadow of the Messianic Kingdom to come (Acts 13:36; 2 Samuel 7). When Yeshua (Jesus) chose His disciples, He set them apart as His students, and appointed them for the same purpose that He has appointed you. God Chose You, Set You Apart, and Appointed You Rob Though we may try to hide from Him, Yeshua has made Himself known to us through His Word and through our daily communication with Him. Rob" Yes, how well the Messanics write"
As His disciples, our Master Teacher, Messiah Yeshua, wants us to know (yada) Him in such an intimate way that we get our very sustenance from Him.
Rob" Yes, how well the Messanics write"
We are to know His character, what He would do and not do. Rob" Yes, correct."
We are to know His Words, study them, meditate on them, memorize them, bring them to mind in times of need, and put them into daily practice.
Rob" Yes, that is how emanuah works. Well said"
When we find Yeshua and know Him as our Savior and Messiah, we don’t merely get a free pass into eternity (the end result of salvation). In knowing Him so intimately, we also acknowledge our purpose.
Just as God appointed the nation of Israel, King David, and the Prophet Jeremiah for His purposes, Messiah Yeshua says to His disciples, “You didn't choose Me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit.” (John 15:16)
Moreover, Yeshua doesn’t leave us alone in this effort. He tells us how to accomplish our purpose: “I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. “Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples. This brings great glory to my Father.” (John 15:5–8) Receiving a pass to eternity involves responsibilities on earth—remain in Yeshua and produce the kind of spiritual, everlasting fruit that only Yeshua can help us produce.
Rob" Yes, correct, the fruits that Jesus produces in us, via the HS and His Father"
That makes us true disciples. That glorifies God. And that is our ultimate purpose. How does this work in real life?
If you are a business owner, love your employees as Yeshua loved His disciples. (John 13:34) If you are a lawyer, defend righteousness according to God’s standards, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8) If you are a parent, raise up your children in the way of the Lord. (Proverbs 22:6) How do we know what to do? The Word of God tells us. If we are to bear fruit that remains, we simply need to obey, as we are called to do. “Whoever says He abides in Him ought to walk in the same way in which He walked.” (1 John 2:6)
Rob, when it comes to the pre-existence of the soul, the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and Jewish literature agree on one thing—Messiah existed from before creation. We are told that a ruler would come out of Bethlehem whose “existence has been from antiquity, even from eternity.” (Micah 5:2) Yet, the Jewish People still have not made the connection that Yeshua is this Messiah who has existed in eternity past, present, and future. You can help them discover this saving truth by supporting our Messianic Prophecy Bible Project. "I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!" (Deuteronomy 32:3)
Rob" These Messianic Jewish writers do not support Greek influence into their Jewish culture, nor the influence of Gnostic influence, they have the same idea of the soul as I do, that once we die we sleep until we are judged by Jesus.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 22, 2022 14:46:58 GMT -5
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5) What does it mean that God knew Jeremiah before even one of his chromosomes and cells were formed? If he knew Jeremiah before he was born, that means that God also knew you Rob, before you were born. YES IT DOES – if scripture is correct – God knew you before you were conceivedSo, how does that affect your life, here on earth today? What was your answer?God Knows You The Hebrew word for know is yada (יָדַע). Rob" Yes correct. Yada, I find means to be "intimate" this includes having sex with someone, or knowing someone or something like the back of your hand. In Scripture, we see that God has intimate knowledge of us at the depth of our character and soul: He knows the hearts of all men (1 Kings 8:39; 2 Chronicles 6:30), those who are His servants (2 Samuel 7:20; Nahum 1:7; 1 Chronicles 17:18) and those who are false, vain, and deceitful (Job 11:11). He keeps the lowly close to His thoughts, but only knows the haughty from afar (Psalm 138:6). He knows our words before they are spoken (Psalm 139:4) and the distresses of our lives (Psalm 31:7). And He knows you, Rob. “Even the hairs of your head are all numbered.” (Matthew 10:30) "When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him? ... O Yehova, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!" (Psalm 8:3–9)" There is nothing that we can say, think, or do that God doesn’t know! Absolutely agree – no umbra shadows can block God D"Created by God for God – not opposing the creator in a war between two gods in heaven R" Are you saying the Father created false elohiym creatures on purpose, and this no worship of false elohiym creatures is all part of the plan by the Father? God placed Eve and the serpent together in the garden YES – God set the stage for events to unfoldGod sent Moses unto Pharaoh – and God hardened Pharaoh’s heartYES – God set the stage for events to unfoldWhy did God leave the 99% to other godsThe only answer = God’s Plan – God’s Will – God is in control YES – God set the stage for events to unfoldGen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;YES – God set the stage for events to unfoldSO you are saying the Father planned SIN to occur so the Father could glorify Himself from His created plan? GOD knew sin already existed, so took careful plans to design a creation that could exist sinlessly or with God's missing, in either case, as carefully controlled depending upon what Adam chooses. Got nothing to do with an opposing sinning angel. All God’s Plan – all God’s Will – thing only happened one way – God’s way"Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD. "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD. (Jeremiah 23:24) And as David sings in Psalm 139:7: “Where can I flee from your presence?” Correct – no umbra shadow can block GodBut God also knows things before we do them. GOD knew sin already existed, so took careful plans to design a creation that could exist sinlessly or with God's missing, in either case, as carefully controlled depending upon what Adam chooses. Got nothing to do with an opposing sinning angel. The “Song of Moses,” as it is called, describes how His Chosen People would behave once they entered their Promised Land (Deuteronomy 32). Of course – omniscience – God knew and Planned for itAnd we are told that God knew Abraham, Jeremiah, David, and Messiah Yeshua before the first cell of their embryos formed (Genesis 18:19; Jeremiah 1:5; Psalm 139:16; Isaiah 7:14, 9:6). Of course – omniscience – God knew and Planned for itLet’s now look at what that could mean. When Did God First Know You? ---------------------------------------------Rob" take note Dave----------" The Greek Philosopher Plato - who caresPlato’s theory about this pre-existent soul helped the Greek world better explain their own ideas about reincarnation, a standard belief throughout Greek life. Rob" Plato's theory of a soul pre-existing the body explains how it knows things before we are born" YES – we are taught the Torah in the womb by God Himself – and we have the memory of being in His presence Plato’s theory about this pre-existent soul – is consistent with Jewish TheologyThough the pre-existence of souls was not found in the Hebrew Scriptures, Except Jer 1:5 Except – we are Christians and the New testament Gospel tells us we are the host of heaven – the Bride of Christ – soldiers in God’s army we see it appear in gnostic writings, apocryphal books, - in agreement with Jewish Theologyand in Jewish literature from at least the 4th century BC. – Jewish Theology at the time of Jesus ChristAnd it has continued until today. – because of Jesus Christ and the Promise of eternal Life"Rob" How interesting, the Messanic Jewish believers should write this about their own cultural hertigage. The Messanics are saying they do not support Greek ideas, Jewish ideas that have become "Hellenized,” nor do they support Gnostic ideas " I do not see your conclusion yet – all I see here is a History lesson indication that IT IS JEWISH THEOLOGY at the time of Jesus Christ – the only CONTEXT THAT MATTERSFor instance, a Jewish parable (midrash) tells us that “all the souls that have come into existence since Adam, and which` will be till the end of the world, were created in the six days of creation, all were in the Garden of Eden and at the giving of the Torah. (R. Yohanan in Midrash Tanhuma Pekudei 3, 250-300 AD) this.) (Our ministry does Not believe this.) Nor do I – nor does Chabad.ord The Host of heaven were created on Day 1Over time, Jewish literature found a place for these souls to rest, a heavenly storehouse called a guf (literally, body), where souls wait to be assigned to their life vessels on earth. Chabad.org – calls it the well of Souls
This idea of a guf has become mainstream Jewish thinking today, and it forms part of the Jewish teaching on reincarnation, a popular idea among Orthodox and secular Jewish communities alike. YEP – Jewish TheologyHowever, reincarnation is not found in the Tanakh (the Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament). Rob" so the idea of a pre-existing spirit inhabiting a body prepared for it, is described here by these Messanic Jewish writers as "reincarnation" and is NOT found in Hebrew OT torah" ABSOLUTELY CORRECT – the Jewish concept of reincarnation (just another word for Resurrection) did not enter Jewish thought until 160 BC and the Maccabean revolt of the intertestamental period2 MACCABEES 7:14CEB When the end was approaching, he said, “Death at the hands of humans is preferable, since we look forward to the hope that God gives of being raised by him. But for you there will be no resurrection to life.” DRA And when he was now ready to die, he spoke thus: It is better, being put to death by men, to look for hope from God, to be raised up again by him: for, as to thee thou shalt have no resurrection unto life. GNT but his final words were, I am glad to die at your hands, because we have the assurance that God will raise us from death. But there will be no resurrection to life for you, Antiochus! NABRE When he was near death, he said, “It is my choice to die at the hands of mortals with the hope that God will restore me to life; but for you, there will be no resurrection to life.” NCB When he was at the point of death, he cried out: “It is far better to choose to die at the hands of men and rely on the promise of God of being raised again by him. But for you there will be no resurrection to life.” Messanic Jewish writers as "reincarnation" and is NOT found in Hebrew OT torah" ABSOLUTELY CORRECT – the Jewish concept of reincarnation (just another word for Resurrection) did not enter Jewish thought until 160 BC and the Maccabean revolt of the intertestamental period IT WAS A FULL PART OF JEWISH THEOLOGY AT THE TIME OF JESUS CHRIST The only CONTEXT that mattersWe can confidently know that “it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment.” (Hebrews 9:27) Rob" Here the Messanic Jews believe the same as my view" YES – me too – and that judgment = a Divine Pardon or proportional PunishmentAnd King Solomon wrote: “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5–6) YES - their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.” = (yester ra) a thing of biology - all perished“Under the sun” speaks of this life, but when the spirit returns to God as stated in Ecclesiastes 12:7, it refers to the next life. YES – mortal life over – now on to the after Life"And the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:7) Rob" SO Messanic Jews do not support the idea that the "spirit lives" at all, Did you overlook - and the spirit returns to God who gave it."-------------- There is another explanation for how God knew Jeremiah and even King David before they were born—one found in the Hebrew Scriptures alone. God is Omniscient which is the Driving Force of Bible Prophecy YES – I said this aboveHis “all-knowingness” is outside of time. God knows the past and future as NOW. God’s all-knowingness, in fact, is the driving force behind Messianic prophecy. God’s omniscience is how He could meticulously appoint types and shadows of the Messiah (Deliverer/Redeemer) at key times along Israel’s history, such as Abraham and the binding of Isaac (Genesis 22), Joseph and the salvation of his family (Genesis 37–50), Moses and the first Passover (Exodus 12), King David and his kingdom (2 Samuel 7). GOD knew sin already existed, so took careful plans to design a creation that could exist sinlessly or with God's missing, in either case, as carefully controlled depending upon what Adam chooses. Got nothing to do with an opposing sinning angel. All God’s Plan – all God’s Will – thing only happened one way – God’s way[/quote] You are saying GOD is the author of SIN, NOPE – I accept scriptureRom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin,BUT - GOD knew sin already existed, so took careful plans to design a creation that could exist sinlessly or with God's missing, in either case, as carefully controlled depending upon what Adam chooses. Got nothing to do with an opposing sinning angel. All God’s Plan – all God’s Will – thing only happened one way – God’s way[/quote] Within the many meanings of God knowing Jeremiah beforehand—his character, his words, his whole life—is the idea that God also chose Jeremiah to be uniquely himself and to do certain things - to have a PURPOSE - in his life. YES – our purpose in life – the meaning of life – our commission / assignmentWe see this pattern throughout the Bible: First God chooses someone. Second, He sanctifies or sets the person apart. Third, He appoints them to service. YES – God reaches down – and communes with the deserving – spirit to spirit – Pentecostal / prophetic (Baptism of the Holy Spirit within the ahl/OT)When God chose the Jewish People, for example, He set them apart in the Land of Israel and gave them a purpose: to be a kingdom of priests, a holy nation that would bring others to the knowledge of the one true God of Israel and His coming Messiah. YES – God set the stage for events to unfoldWhen God chose David, He set him apart by anointing him king. David not only “served God's purpose in his own generation,” he inaugurated a dynasty that would become a shadow of the Messianic Kingdom to come (Acts 13:36; 2 Samuel 7). When Yeshua (Jesus) chose His disciples, He set them apart as His students, and appointed them for the same purpose that He has appointed you. God Chose You, Set You Apart, and Appointed You Rob YES – we are called to a higher spirituality than to just say prayers and perform ritualsAs His disciples, our Master Teacher, Messiah Yeshua, wants us to know (yada) Him in such an intimate way that we get our very sustenance from Him. Rob" Yes, how well the Messanics write" We are to know His character, what He would do and not do. Rob" Yes, correct." We are to know His Words, study them, meditate on them, memorize them, bring them to mind in times of need, and put them into daily practice. Rob" Yes, that is how emanuah works. Well said" When we find Yeshua and know Him as our Savior and Messiah, we don’t merely get a free pass into eternity (the end result of salvation). In knowing Him so intimately, we also acknowledge our purpose. Just as God appointed the nation of Israel, King David, and the Prophet Jeremiah for His purposes, Messiah Yeshua says to His disciples, “You didn't choose Me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit.” (John 15:16) YES – God set the stage for event to unfoldMoreover, Yeshua doesn’t leave us alone in this effort. He tells us how to accomplish our purpose: Correct – Jesus promised the Baptism of the Holy Spirit – to become Born AgainAct 1:4 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: Act 1:5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and ye shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you. ----------------- “I am the vine; you are the branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. “Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, you may ask for anything you want, and it will be granted! When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples. This brings great glory to my Father.” (John 15:5–8) Receiving a pass to eternity involves responsibilities on earth—remain in Yeshua and produce the kind of spiritual, everlasting fruit that only Yeshua can help us produce. Rob" Yes, correct, the fruits that Jesus produces in us, via the HS and His Father" Then why do you deny the spirit – deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit That makes us true disciples. That glorifies God. And that is our ultimate purpose. Gospel of PhillipBut one receives the unction of the [...] of the power of the cross. This power the apostles called "the right and the left." For this person is no longer a Christian but a Christ.-------- Yet, the Jewish People still have not made the connection that Yeshua is this Messiah who has existed in eternity past, present, and future. YES – God set the stage for event to unfoldIf no Jews remained during the age of the gentile How could they be called back from all the nations of the world How could Ezk 39 – 39 – 40 unfold as written? How can Jesus Return to the Promise Land and the Jews if ther are NOT there YES – God set the stage for event to unfoldYou can help them discover this saving truth by supporting our Messianic Prophecy Bible Project. "I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!" (Deuteronomy 32:3) That is the meaning of life – our purpose – our calling
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 5:28:22 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
You did a pretty good job of dismissing this the best of Messianic Emails so far...are you saying they support your "spirt lives" idea?
D" Did you overlook - and the spirit returns to God who gave it."
That word "spirit" there Dave, is ruwach, the "medium" or "HS" returns to GOD.
You are introducing polysemy into Hebrew, suggests it also means "your spirit".
This same word has this context:
Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death:
So man's soul cannot retain the "medium" nor can the "soul" have any power over the "medium" in the day of the "soul's death".
Can the soul die (maveth) ? Yes
Ps 33:19 To deliver their soul from death, Ps 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: Ps 78:50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, Ps 116:8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death,
Jesus soul also died for 3 days and 3 nights, to atone for confessed sins.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death:
Mt 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death:
When a soul dies, it stays in the grave.
Ps 89:48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?
So the word you use "ruwach" for implying that "your spirit lives" after you die, is invalid. False.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 23, 2022 6:14:02 GMT -5
D" Did you overlook - and the spirit returns to God who gave it." YES – our spirit return to God for judgment – Divine Pardon or Proportional PunishmentThat word "spirit" there Dave, is ruwach, Correct - spiritYou are introducing polysemy into Hebrew, suggests it also means "your spirit". Sorry Robert – same word – you just added the adjective ‘your’ Learn English – then learn to translateEc 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: Correct – no man can hold onto the spirit as it pours out of your body and at the Lake of Fire - the spirit is at the mercy of GodCan the soul die (maveth) ? Yes – it is called the Second Death at the Lake of FirePs 33:19 To deliver their soul from death, - the Second Death at the Lake of Fire (SALVATION)Ps 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: - the Second Death at the Lake of Fire (SALVATION)Ps 78:50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, - the Second Death at the Lake of Fire (SALVATION)Ps 116:8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, - the Second Death at the Lake of Fire (SALVATION)Jesus soul also died for 3 days and 3 nights, to atone for confessed sins. The spirit of Jesus was poured out at the Cross and went to preach to the lost in hades God never died – the only sacrifice was Jesus – dead – in the grave – then resurrectedIsa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: YEP – poured out – returned to God – preached to the lost in hadesMt 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: When a soul dies, it stays in the grave. The soul has nothing to do with flesh or biology – it is spiritSo the word you use "ruwach" for implying that "your spirit lives" after you die, is invalid. False. I imagine it is difficult to be a spiritual Christian – if you deny the spiritJoh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Deny away Robert – you do not have to walk with God – if you choose Not to100 Bible Verses about Praying In The Spirit - OpenBible.info www.openbible.info › topics › praying_in_the_s... Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too ... Act 1:1 The former treatise I made, O Theophilus, concerning all that Jesus began both to do and to teach, Act 1:2 until the day in which he was received up, after that he had given commandment through the Holy Spirit unto the apostles whom he had chosen: Act 1:3 to whom he also showed himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing unto them by the space of forty days, and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God: Why do you deny this scripture – James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas all wrote of this You DEMAND it is heresy Deny awayAct 1:4 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: Act 1:5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence. Why do you deny this scripture You MOCK Pentecostalism – there is no spirit – spiritual Christians are frauds you say Deny away Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples: Act 19:2 and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given. Act 19:3 And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John's baptism. Act 19:4 And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after him, that is, on Jesus. Act 19:5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Why do you deny this scripture You MOCK Pentecostalism – there is no spirit – spiritual Christians are frauds you say Deny awayWhy do you teach the only Baptism is the baptism of John the Baptist – with earthly waterANSWER – you only believe in biology – and your only hope is the grave
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Post by Dave on Aug 23, 2022 6:14:12 GMT -5
D" Did you overlook - and the spirit returns to God who gave it." YES – our spirit return to God for judgment – Divine Pardon or Proportional PunishmentThat word "spirit" there Dave, is ruwach, Correct - spiritYou are introducing polysemy into Hebrew, suggests it also means "your spirit". Sorry Robert – same word – you just added the adjective ‘your’ Learn English – then learn to translateEc 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: Correct – no man can hold onto the spirit as it pours out of your body and at the Lake of Fire - the spirit is at the mercy of GodCan the soul die (maveth) ? Yes – it is called the Second Death at the Lake of FirePs 33:19 To deliver their soul from death, - the Second Death at the Lake of Fire (SALVATION)Ps 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: - the Second Death at the Lake of Fire (SALVATION)Ps 78:50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, - the Second Death at the Lake of Fire (SALVATION)Ps 116:8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, - the Second Death at the Lake of Fire (SALVATION)Jesus soul also died for 3 days and 3 nights, to atone for confessed sins. The spirit of Jesus was poured out at the Cross and went to preach to the lost in hades God never died – the only sacrifice was Jesus – dead – in the grave – then resurrectedIsa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: YEP – poured out – returned to God – preached to the lost in hadesMt 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: When a soul dies, it stays in the grave. The soul has nothing to do with flesh or biology – it is spiritSo the word you use "ruwach" for implying that "your spirit lives" after you die, is invalid. False. I imagine it is difficult to be a spiritual Christian – if you deny the spiritJoh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Deny away Robert – you do not have to walk with God – if you choose Not to100 Bible Verses about Praying In The Spirit - OpenBible.info www.openbible.info › topics › praying_in_the_s... Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too ... Act 1:1 The former treatise I made, O Theophilus, concerning all that Jesus began both to do and to teach, Act 1:2 until the day in which he was received up, after that he had given commandment through the Holy Spirit unto the apostles whom he had chosen: Act 1:3 to whom he also showed himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing unto them by the space of forty days, and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God: Why do you deny this scripture – James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas all wrote of this You DEMAND it is heresy Deny awayAct 1:4 and, being assembled together with them, he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, said he, ye heard from me: Act 1:5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence. Why do you deny this scripture You MOCK Pentecostalism – there is no spirit – spiritual Christians are frauds you say Deny away Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples: Act 19:2 and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given. Act 19:3 And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John's baptism. Act 19:4 And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after him, that is, on Jesus. Act 19:5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Why do you deny this scripture You MOCK Pentecostalism – there is no spirit – spiritual Christians are frauds you say Deny awayWhy do you teach the only Baptism is the baptism of John the Baptist – with earthly waterANSWER – you only believe in biology – and your only hope is the grave
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 14:33:35 GMT -5
RP" Ec 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death:
D" Correct – no man can hold onto the spirit as it pours out of your body and at the Lake of Fire - the spirit is at the mercy of God
R" So if the ruwach cannot be retained as the ruwach pours out and returns unto elohiym, why do you assume each "ruwach" is refined in the fires of elohiym, to remove the smell of RA sins when it was in the body of humans?
You are controlling the ruwach after death?
Why do you assume each ruwach is different in each human, making the ruwach yours as a gift?
You are taking ownership of powers that belong to God alone?
Isn't it easier to say the ruwach lives within you, and together relationally we become a soul? Now you have a community concept, where the divine and the non-divine walk together as achad, one in harmony. But you cannot fathom this because your god is solitary and thus the ruwach is an expression of a solitary god, thus the ruwach is you and you become solitary too, so there is no relational love aspect to you and God is there?
And it there is no relational aspect to God, than why am I required to hold His hand, when the ruwach is already in me, as me?
Your theories make no sense?
D"The spirit of Jesus was poured out at the Cross and went to preach to the lost in hades R" How is this possible when you just whittled away every verse of the soul poured unto death, referring to the Second death? D"Ps 56:13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: - the Second Death at the Lake of Fire (SALVATION) R" This cannot be this, because at the Second Death, the person no longer exists. So how can Jesus talk to those in the Second Death, they should not exist?
Your theory can only make sense if Jesus went to Hades to visit the souls that died in the first death, a sleep. Thus they still exist as a concept. In the second death nothing exists as a concept. Hence why only divinity could handle visiting the second death and than only for 3 days and 3 nights. SO your theories are not consistent. Either the soul dies in the first death or not? Cannot make it refer to the second death, because nothing remains and nothing returns, unless you are divine, and creatures are never like this.
D" God never died – the only sacrifice was Jesus – dead – in the grave – then resurrected R" So if God never died, the Muslims say Jesus is not God, because God cannot die? So now you are saying only a human died, and the god incarnate did not die? Can you explain this to us, the Muslim and me?
In my view Jesus is God and God did die, from reading Scripture the second death, is a separation from within the Godhead. The first death is a separation from God from creature. The second death is a permanent separation from God.
RP" Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: D" YEP – poured out – returned to God – preached to the lost in hades R" Not possible, because in the second death, no human souls or eternal spirits would exist. This has to mean the first death, a sleep. And thus the human soul dies.
Your theory is wrong.
D"The soul has nothing to do with flesh or biology – it is spirit R" Explain how you can equate two Hebrew words "ruwach" and "nephesh"? You cannot do this. But you do.
Friedman says "God took a body and breathed a soul in the body and man became living" This is NOT what the Hebrew says.
It says GOD took the body and breathed the "ruwach of chay" and the body with these other added elements, became "nephesh".
Friedman says "basar + nephesh" - > "chay man".
Hebrew says "basar + Ruwach/medium allowing the chay from the Father" -> "nephesh".
It's totally different. The Jewish preacher is wrong.
The Hebrew is quite complex, in that it adds "nashamah" as well as "ruwach" to the phrase "breath of life". D"I imagine it is difficult to be a spiritual Christian – if you deny the spirit R" Word game Dave. Either the word "ruwach" means one meaning or it meaning two meanings? You make nashamah as the "eternal spirit" within man, some Chabad website do this, but because the nashamah is not written much, you assume it's also ruwach. Ruwach has one meaning - medium for every context Nashamah has one meaning for every context, "breathing in and out"
When prophets are in vision with GOD, their nashamah stops functioning. So the nashamah is a biological function
D"Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. R" SO this refers to a different level of experience, that only GNostics know? What is born of flesh?
Ga 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Ga 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
What is different between Isaac and Ishmael?
Both are creatures
Both biological creatures
Isaac was made by faith
Ishamael was made by humans
How does faith make biological changes to flesh?
This assumes that GOD has something like a human has, a creative centre, a compassion-centre we term a womb.
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
How is this a different unrevealed spirit form? It's not.
It's talking about renewing the body with a divine input.
If it is about getting a brand new spirit as you claim Dave, what happens to your eternal spirit that is you? Is this discarded?
When you do this wombing process, you have to allow your ruwach spirit to die and you rise in Jesus ruwach spirit, not your old one.
Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
R" something has to die. In my view, that something that dies is your old carnal flesh.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
R" something has to live again, In my view that is the recreating of your flesh, completely restored little by little, propensities removed, so our minds become more like Jesus mind every day, in the compassion-centre.
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
R" Something has to be broken here... in my view, what is broken is the DNA epigenetic connections of aven, the potential for habitual sinnings.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin
R" The mind no longer chooses to sin, and instead chooses to live by faith in Jesus words.
D"I imagine it is difficult to be a spiritual Christian – if you deny the spirit R" I imagine it is difficult to be a spiritual Christian – if you deny the body.
If the spirit is all there is in this process theory you have, why are you still connected to your body of flesh?
Duh to witness Dave says, Jer 1:5. Rob says, well what has changed in your spirit process than? I see nothing changed, nothing died either?
D"Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too . R" Yes because our body is weak but our mind is willing, so the HS helps us as a help-mate.
You twist this to mean our spirit groans for the spirit of God.
D"You MOCK Pentecostalism – there is no spirit – spiritual Christians are frauds you say R" speaking babblings is that what you mean? the language of Heaven? I thought Hebrew is the language of heaven?
D"Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. R" How come public miracles do not happen today so easily as laying hands on people in prayer?
What would happen to you if God made a public miracle flow through you today?
The Catholics have many signs and wonders in their assemblies today, does this make them "truth" ? Scripture says even the elect is deceived. So how can one discern "truth"? Even Pilate asked this question ? The Jews demanded signs and wonders to validate GOD flowing through you.... is this enough? No One must also live by the words.... D"Why do you teach the only Baptism is the baptism of John the Baptist – with earthly water R" There were two time stages of baptism, before Jesus was glorified in death and after Jesus was glorified in death .
A baptism before Jesus was glorified in death had so much power, and a baptism after Jesus was glorified in death has much more power. Stop making this mean two kinds of baptism, one is biological and the other a spirit baptism.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 24, 2022 12:01:43 GMT -5
R" So if the ruwach cannot be retained as the ruwach pours out and returns unto elohiym, why do you assume each "ruwach" is refined in the fires of elohiym, to remove the smell of RA sins when it was in the body of humans?
Jesus said Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Exo 21:23 But if any harm follows, then you are to penalize life for life, Exo 21:24 eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Exo 21:25 burn for burn, wound for wound, blow for blow.
Pro 11:1 Dishonest scales are an abomination to Adonai, but an accurate weight is His delight.
Jer 17:10 I Adonai search the heart, I try the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.
Mat 5:19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad.
Rev 20:13 … Then they were each judged, each one of them, according to their deeds.
YES – Proportional Punishment – to each man his due
Mat 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great! …
YES – Proportional REWARDS – to each man his due
You are controlling the ruwach after death? NOPE – totally at God’s mercy
Why do you assume each ruwach is different in each human, making the ruwach yours as a gift? You are taking ownership of powers that belong to God alone? Each and every spirit being is a unique and independent individual All cows are not the same – all dogs are not the same – all angels are not the same – all archon are not the same – all men are not the same – each is a unique and independent individual
Isn't it easier to say the ruwach lives within you- where the divine and the non-divine walk together as achad, one in harmony. Judaism is pantheistic at the sub-atomic level But IT IS NOT panethiestic – we are not all small fragments of god We are NOT all fragments of the Holy Spirit trapped within bodies Spirits - each is a unique and independent individual
But you cannot fathom this because your god is solitary and thus the ruwach is an expression of a solitary god, thus the ruwach is you and you become solitary too, Why do you make up this SHIT – what NONSENSENS God is a singularity – absolutely – there is only One True God – there is no other The Spirit is the Spirit of God – not your spirit – you are NOT God each is a unique and independent individual
so there is no relational love aspect to you and God is there? Maybe you do NOT love the lord – or feel as if you are NOT able to love the lord Judeo-Christians DO – love Him and praise Him
D"The spirit of Jesus was poured out at the Cross and went to preach to the lost in hades R" How is this possible when you just whittled away every verse of the soul poured unto death, referring to the Second death?
1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
PUT TO DEATH IN THE FLESH – MORTAL DEATH – DEATH OF BIOLOGY
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
R" How is this possible when you just whittled away every verse of the soul poured unto death, referring to the Second death? Why do you corrupt scripture and turn it into REDICULAS NONSENSE
D" YEP – poured out – returned to God – preached to the lost in hades R" Not possible, because in the second death, no human souls or eternal spirits would exist. Your theory is wrong. Why do you corrupt scripture and turn it into REDICULAS NONSENSE
D" God never died – the only sacrifice was Jesus – dead – in the grave – then resurrected R" So if God never died, the Muslims say Jesus is not God, because God cannot die? So now you are saying only a human died, and the god incarnate did not die? Can you explain this to us, the Muslim and me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. Mat 27:50 And Yeshua cried out again with a loud voice and gave up His spirit. Mat 27:50 And Jesus having again cried with a great voice, yielded the spirit;
Mar 15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. Mar 15:37 And Jesus having uttered a loud cry, yielded the spirit,
In my view Jesus is God and God did die, THERE YOU ARE - your satan must be so proud of you – you preach God is dead
D"I imagine it is difficult to be a spiritual Christian – if you deny the spirit R" Word game Dave. Either the word "ruwach" means one meaning or it meaning two meanings? It means spirit – no more no less
D"Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. R" SO this refers to a different level of experience, that only GNostics know? NOPE it is New Testament scripture – and the calling is for all All of the disciples and all of the First Christians were called to the baptisms of the Holy Spirit Non-Pentecostals – deny the calling and therefore pretend it is secrete mysticism
Just like someone denying UFOs for 60 years – and then see one – and realize how wrong he has been all his life
What is born of flesh? - BIOLOGY / flesh
D"I imagine it is difficult to be a spiritual Christian – if you deny the spirit If the spirit is all there is in this process theory you have, why are you still connected to your body of flesh? So you can Jer 1:5 here in this world - DUH
D"You MOCK Pentecostalism – there is no spirit – spiritual Christians are frauds you say R" speaking babblings is that what you mean? the language of Heaven? I thought Hebrew is the language of heaven? D"You MOCK Pentecostalism – there is no spirit – spiritual Christians are frauds you say You MOCK what you do NOT know – lack of knowledge does NOT make you an expert on the unknown Pretending to know what you do not – only makes you delusional
D"Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. R" How come public miracles do not happen today so easily as laying hands on people in prayer? WOW Robert – there is so much all around you – stop denying it
Google SID ROTH and watch 3 minutes
D"Why do you teach the only Baptism is the baptism of John the Baptist – with earthly water R" There were two time stages of baptism, before Jesus was glorified in death and after Jesus was glorified in death . SORRY ROBERT – the Book of Acts all takes place after Jesus
Stop making this mean two kinds of baptism, one is biological and the other a spirit baptism. Paul says there is the baptism of John – which is only water Paul says there is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper country came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples: Act 19:2 and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given. Act 19:3 And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John's baptism. Act 19:4 And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after him, that is, on Jesus. Act 19:5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Why do you deny this scripture You MOCK Pentecostalism – there is no spirit – spiritual Christians are frauds you say Deny away
Why do you teach the only Baptism is the baptism of John the Baptist – with earthly water ANSWER – you only believe in biology – and your only hope is the grave
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2022 15:41:59 GMT -5
Greetings Dave,
I am shocked, hurt you cannot discuss my discussions and you no longer take my discussions seriously, I do when you write....
I enjoyed discussing with you, and learning new things.... but it seems you cannot defend yourself, and now you longer wish to do so.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2022 6:54:35 GMT -5
WHAT A COP OUT - you have painted yourself into an endless list of controdictions that you cannot escape from - so you run away - so you do NOT have to expalain your diesrepect for the New TestamentPretend away Robert – fight against scripture – fight against the reality of the spirit and the spiritual – fight against the reality of the archon – fight against the idea of an intelligent design NOW – you are pushing the idea that your satan god is superior ro the Creator Your satan god KILLED the creator and sent Him to the Second Death But your satan god remains ABSOLUTE NONSENSE Now you teach that the CROSS was not sufficient for salvation – you must do more You have absolutely denied the concept of FIRST FRUITS for 3 years – suddenly Moses LIVES after hos mortal death because you say he was FIRST FRUITS YOU JUST SAY ANYTHING to attack the Christian Faith – Mock scripture You deliberately misrepresent me – scripture – English – and others in a demonstration of academic honesty Robert – I must confess – I no longer take you seriously You are not here to study – you just choose to oppose me and scripture because you think it qute Enjoy your game – demonstrate to God and everyone the respect toy have for the word of God Your refusal to answer questions is a demonstration of your game – just attack – but never answer1- Why do you deny the New Testament Gospel and call yourself a Christian 2- Why do you think it a game to call the New Testament Gospel – Gnostic? 3- Why do you deny LIFE LIVES - but defend Moses as First Fruits 4- Why do you dent the spirit and the spiritual – and think of it as pagan mysticism 5- Why do you deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit 6- Why do you doubt the action of the Holy Spirit today 7- Why do you teach that miracles are only the stuff of ancient history 8- Why do you deny that Jesus was more than just a man 9- Why do you teach that your satan is able to repent 10- Why do you deny Jusus Christ was God incarnate – yet you pray to Jesus You have painted yourself into a very large anti-Christian hole – from which there is no escape – except to admit you just enjoy attaching Christianity for sport – just a game you play to attack ChristianitySo I have been studying and learning, just vehemently disagree with your view and your Gnostic ways, because they oppose the Hebrew torah, which Hellenized Jews no longer seem to follow also.Why do you deny the New Testament Gospel and call it Gnostic Now you want to teach that the New Testament is a delusion You teach others NOT to embrace the New Testamant - but call yourself a Christian YOU JUST SAY ANYTHING to attack the Christian Faith – Mock scriptureA study – is an exchange of Q&A You – all Q no A ANSWER FOR YOUR BELIEFS – for your anti-Christian beliefs
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 16:03:19 GMT -5
D" NOW – you are pushing the idea that your satan god is superior ro the Creator Your satan god KILLED the creator and sent Him to the Second Death But your satan god remains
ABSOLUTE NONSENSER" (1) Jesus came to earth for olah offering of himself to atonment for the death penalty imposed by the royal law, the ten commandments. Do you agree with this idea? (2) Where is this judgement found? Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, This is the only place where a mischief maker causes an eternal consequence by doing mischief. Do you agree with this idea? (3) Hence it is the only verse that explains why Jesus died.... He came to resolve this eternal death penalty, He had to exchange our death with His life. "life for life". Do you agree with this idea? (4) And this law, also involves the mischief maker. So the mischief maker causes mischief. Do you agree with this idea? (5) And hence must be punished by being sentenced to eternal non-existence. Do you agree with this idea? Now rather than post emotional outburst "ABSOLUTE NONSENSE" discuss my discussion, until one of us breaks down our discussions.... either my torah is correct, or your torah is correct. Now I have ONE topic, why Jesus died, based on moral law, which once written by God cannot be changed by God, the laws are eternal, as He is eternal. But this is a different topic, ie the LAW. I have broken the topic into 5 points, discuss my discussions please. D" But your satan god remainsR" For now, the Day of Atonement pictures the end of the scapegoat, at the end of this atonement process. D" Now you teach that the CROSS was not sufficient for salvation – you must do moreR" A different topic,No I don't. The death of Jesus satisfys the mischief penalty, but does not explain how life is transferred from Jesus into the believer.This transfer is done by daily faith, a different topic. D" You have absolutely denied the concept of FIRST FRUITS for 3 years – suddenly Moses LIVES after hos mortal death because you say he was FIRST FRUITSR" Another topic, first fruits. I am overwhelmed by you introducing too many topic discussions Dave. A debate seeking truth focuses on one topic at a time until we break our part of our theory of faith. D" YOU JUST SAY ANYTHING to attack the Christian Faith – Mock scripture You deliberately misrepresent me – scripture – English – and others in a demonstration of academic honestyR" Not so, I do not ever misrepresent you, I have written honestly about your archon theory haven't I ? never mocked you or bagged your theory.... I respect you have an archon theory, only it's not based on Moses torah. It's based on the Hellenized-Gnostic Edit, and you claim to hate Editing of Scripture. I presented Ezekiel 28 "cherub chata" but you ignore my discussion. I tried to engage you in discussing of poetry similes, but you ignore my request. Sure humans are guarding functions, such King Tyre refused to guard with TOV, he got greedy. But you also do not see the simile. And a simile cannot be mixed with the other picture, otherwise they are not similes. So "cherub chata" refers to another picture, a simile. Here we see angels sinning. Just as humans sin. Some angel refused to be a guardian function and sinned, just as the human did. Even Rabbi Apple agreed to this idea. You ignore my discussion and have not falsified my theory, therefore my discussion is valid.
D" Your refusal to answer questions is a demonstration of your game – just attack – but never answerR" I have tried to answer your questions, but you introduce too many different topics, Mason way to avoid seeking truth, clash topic with topic until the debate gets heated and parties walk away dismayed. Not how science debate works, one topic at a time, and the topic at hand must be falsified, than the presenter is declared as truth. A good example is watching Jonathon Sarfetti take on Bill Nye, video debates... However Masons now refuse to debatencse.ngo/creation-evolution-debates-whos-winning-them-nowA debate implies a win-or-lose situation, which is not scientific.R" This notion is false, it is scientific to falsify something. D" 1- Why do you deny the New Testament Gospel and call yourself a Christian 2- Why do you think it a game to call the New Testament Gospel – Gnostic? 3- Why do you deny LIFE LIVES - but defend Moses as First Fruits 4- Why do you dent the spirit and the spiritual – and think of it as pagan mysticism 5- Why do you deny the Baptism of the Holy Spirit 6- Why do you doubt the action of the Holy Spirit today 7- Why do you teach that miracles are only the stuff of ancient history 8- Why do you deny that Jesus was more than just a man 9- Why do you teach that your satan is able to repent 10- Why do you deny Jusus Christ was God incarnate – yet you pray to JesusR" You can pick out one question Dave, and we discuss it until we are resolved, either you go to my view, or I go to your view, falsify the topic at hand. One topic, not ten. However ONE topic is already on this post, so stick to this one first. D" You have painted yourself into a very large anti-Christian hole – from which there is no escape – except to admit you just enjoy attaching Christianity for sport – just a game you play to attack ChristianityR" it would be nice to run into a Jeff Benner support like myself.... You came to the Jeff Benner forum like I did, but you do not follow Jeff Benner at all.... however you do respect him sometimes Instead I found his forum full of people who do not even like Jesus, nor do they follow Jeff's ideas, so Jeff closed down his forum... Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2022 21:33:11 GMT -5
NOW – you are pushing the idea that your satan god is superior ro the Creator Your satan god KILLED the creator and sent Him to the Second Death But your satan god remains ABSOLUTE NONSENSER" (1) Jesus came to earth for olah offering of himself to atonment for the death penalty imposed by the royal law, the ten commandments. Do you agree with this idea? NOT AT ALL – WORD MANJesus was born of Mary in 6 BC – God came to earth as Christ – the image of God YES – Jesus was sacrificed upon the Cross – dead as dead biology / flesh can be Christ was released – to preach to the lost in hades Why do you deny the agl/NT and teach others it is ok to deny the New Testament?Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, YES - Jesus gave his mortal life on the Cross - DUH (3) Hence it is the only verse that explains why Jesus died.... He came to resolve this eternal death penalty, He had to exchange our death with His life. "life for life". Do you agree with this idea? Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The Resurrection PROVES LIFE LIVES – and God loves man so much He has provide a path way for salvation – to make it easy for man to return to God – belief is all that is required(4) And this law, also involves the mischief maker. So the mischief maker causes mischief. Do you agree with this idea? YES – Rev 12:9 the BEAST – who is the serpent race – that we call devils and satanas DECIEVE THE WHOLE WORLD(5) And hence must be punished by being sentenced to eternal non-existence. Do you agree with this idea? There is NO commandment against deception! Their crime is reproducing out of their own kind – not all of them – only about 200 or so----------------------------- Now I have ONE topic, why Jesus died, based on moral law, which once written by God cannot be changed by God, the laws are eternal, as He is eternal. But this is a different topic, ie the LAW. I have broken the topic into 5 points, discuss my discussions please. D"But your satan god remains R" For now, the Day of Atonement pictures the end of the scapegoat, at the end of this atonement process. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE – you teach that god is dead – second death – Lake of Fire - termination of spirit – from which there is no return
D"Now you teach that the CROSS was not sufficient for salvation – you must do more R" A different topic, No I don't. The death of Jesus satisfys the mischief penalty, but does not explain how life is transferred from Jesus into the believer. This transfer is done by daily faith, a different topic. Then why do you teach that you must say the correct prayers and perform the correct rituals and have the correct diet – when all of it has been negated by the agl/NTWhy do you teach the New Testament is error and teach others that it can be ignored - Christian--------------------------- D"You have absolutely denied the concept of FIRST FRUITS for 3 years – suddenly Moses LIVES after hos mortal death because you say he was FIRST FRUITS R" Another topic, first fruits. I am overwhelmed by you introducing too many topic discussions Dave. A debate seeking truth focuses on one topic at a time until we break our part of our theory of faith. Then you should have addressed all these questions as they came up – one at a timeD"YOU JUST SAY ANYTHING to attack the Christian Faith – Mock scripture You deliberately misrepresent me – scripture – English – and others in a demonstration of academic honesty R" Not so, I do not ever misrepresent you, You are so delusional I presented Ezekiel 28 "cherub chata" but you ignore my discussion. I tried to engage you in discussing of poetry similes, but you ignore my request. I see you no longer take my discussions seriously because you no longer can defend your spurious ways....Bring it on satan boy There is an entire thread for the 23+49 verses about your satan – we looked at them allI tried to engage you in discussing of poetry similes, but you ignore my request. YES – instead of just answering a direct question – you have to change scripture into a simile or metaphor so you can change its meaning All of the 23+49 verse fail to validate you satan doctrine – so you are the one that ignores precept upon precept, line upon lineyou ignore my discussion and have not falsified my theory, therefore my discussion is valid. BULL SHIT – discussed every verse – and none of them validate your doctrine But you refuse to see itD"Your refusal to answer questions is a demonstration of your game – just attack – but never answer R" I have tried to answer your questions, but you introduce too many different topics, Cop out - excuses – Mason way to avoid seeking truth, clash topic with topic until the debate gets heated and parties walk away dismayed. Now who is changing the topic yet again – just answer the damn question put to youD"You have painted yourself into a very large anti-Christian hole – from which there is no escape – except to admit you just enjoy attaching Christianity for sport – just a game you play to attack Christianity R" it would be nice to run into a Jeff Benner support like myself.... You came to the Jeff Benner forum like I did, but you do not follow Jeff Benner at all.... however you do respect him sometimes How does this prevent you from answering direct questions? More excuses – avode answering – change the subject – then complain there are too many topics
Why do you teach the New Testament is error and can be ignored - even call it Gnostic How can you MOCK the New Testament - and call yourself a Christian
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2022 17:09:14 GMT -5
D"God came to earth as Christ – the image of God R" So you do not consider Jesus as an eternal entity from eternity? Hypothesis" Did Jesus pre-exist?
Introduction" Some say "Jesus was born of Mary in 6 BC – God came to earth as Christ – the image of God" Some say " The Father can express Himself in a human form as Jesus on earth, the body was shaped within Mary, but the spiritual component is the Father's presence, thus we have a masculine expression on earth, in 6 BC.
So some say "Jesus never pre-existed"?
I would claim Jesus did pre-exist from eternity and came to be clad in human form at 6 BC to redeem humans as He promised to Adam, and Abram and others as our salvation as a being pre-existed. He is essentially the one and only Son of the Father.
Both of these beings are expressing love as "similes" might express love in human families. But the term "simile" is used because the Father and the Son from eternity are NOT composed of matter, space or time, thus are NOT biological either. But as "similes" the elohiym power functions as "similes" like humans were pictured in the Genesis account.
To address this discussion one further needs to define "echad", "elohiym" and what "similes" mean in poetry language. -----------------------------
D"YES – Jesus was sacrificed upon the Cross – dead as dead biology / flesh can be Christ was released – to preach to the lost in hades R" You mean the Father was sacrificed upon the Cross, the biology died, but the Father's spirit did not die.
You mean the Father was released to preach to the lost in hades? I thought the lost only spent 12 months in hades, so we have a problem here Houston? D"Why do you deny the agl/NT and teach others it is ok to deny the New Testament? R" What? Who says I deny the NT? OT and NT are similes of rain, former rain and latter rain, rain comes down in one form, water. D"YES - Jesus gave his mortal life on the Cross - DUH R" YES - Father expression gave his mortal life on the Cross - DUH
Why do you keep not living by your theory and change that the Father expression becomes a brand new creature on earth?
How can the Father watch the Father expression in heaven doing the High Priest functions in a unknown spirit body, atoning for human sins?
How does the Father love the Father expression doing this salvational aspect of love for humans? What term could we use to describe this love? It's not relational? its weird?
The prayers go the the Father expression, and the Father expression passes them onto the Father.... its weird.
What kind of loving is this? I cannot describe this ....? --------------------------------
D"Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The Resurrection PROVES LIFE LIVES – and God loves man so much He has provide a path way for salvation – to make it easy for man to return to God – belief is all that is required R" Again you write your theory wrong, why do you do this?
Joh 3:16 For the Father so loved the world, that The Father gave his Father expression, that whosoever has faith in the Father expression should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The Resurrection PROVES LIFE LIVES – and the Father loves man so much the Father has provide a path way for salvation – to make it easy for man to return to the Father – Faith is all that is required
Does Scripture say this ? no
Joh 3:16 For "eloah" so loved the world, that "eloah" gave his "eloah" expression, that whosoever has "amanuah" in the "eloah" expression should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Instead the term used is "elohiym" not "eloah".... I wonder why Dave?
How is a Father expression of the Father easier for humans to seek salvation? using Faith?
You still assume "pistis" means belief, its the Hebrew word "amanuah" meaning "faith". In order to make salvation easier, the divine has to become human for eternity, not temporarily....as you claim....
You mock the word "gave" how can a Father give a Father ? not possible? Did the Father clone Himself so he could give up the clone on the cross? Is this laying down life for your friends? No It's a cheap escape... no risk... -----------------------------
(4) And this law, also involves the mischief maker. So the mischief maker causes mischief. Do you agree with this idea?
D" YES – Rev 12:9 the BEAST – who is the serpent race – that we call devils and satanas DECIEVE THE WHOLE WORLD
R" Great, than why would the Father intentionally create creatures to cause mischief? And thus cause murder, and bring in eternal death to the mischief maker and the creature spoiled by mischief? Such an act by the mischief maker has to be a SIN?
DO you agree with this idea Dave?
D"There is NO commandment against deception! R" What? The judgement here is about "no wounding" no murder. Not deception. If the mischief maker does mischief, this is a sin of causing murder to the ones in the womb for ever.
D"Their crime is reproducing out of their own kind R" What you just agreed to mischief maker doing mischief? Do you even know how to discuss?
So now you are saying the mischief maker did not mischief to the womb of the woman? their crime is making themselves have offspring with the woman... not the same thing as this verse in Exodus is saying? Make up your mind? Discuss Dave...
D"THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE – you teach that god is dead – second death – Lake of Fire - termination of spirit – from which there is no return R" Are you dull? If you did no sin, you can return from second death, as long as you are divine and keep your body from decaying, while waiting for the Father to come back into the dead body with the breath of life.
If you have sinned, the Father never comes back to you and you cease to exist, as the law for sin requires.
Since humans are not divine, no human who is even sinless can come back from the second death, because while waiting for the father's breath of life to come back into us, our bodies will become RA and the Father does not tolerate RA in eternity living with a corrupted body again. This is mentioned in Gen 3, where Adam and Eve sinned, living in a RA body caused by the mischief maker doing mischief, they would live forever eating of the tree of life fruit, and God does not allow this.
D"Then why do you teach that you must say the correct prayers and perform the correct rituals and have the correct diet – when all of it has been negated by the agl/NT R" Is this a topic you wish to discuss, when we have not discussed the other topics until one of us goes to the other's side?
No point bringing in a new topic is there?
D"Why do you teach the New Testament is error and teach others that it can be ignored - Christian R" you need to evaluate discussions fully,,,, your are brief brevity Dave, and we have never resolved any discussion fully?
D"Then you should have addressed all these questions as they came up – one at a time R" I did... and do... We spent lots dealing with who archons were and their origin.... Moses torah has no direct detail of the origin of the ARAM creature.... Instead you seek added writing outside of Moses torah.
We are told NOT to do this? Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony:
We can use testimonies to Moses torah, but only if it agrees to Moses torah. I have shown the ARAM creature came from SARAPH, word meaning "burning", this word is also used in context of heaven. So where does Scripture use the term of SARAPH about a creature created for heaven? cherub is created, and these are creatures for heaven. But you ignore this verse, and thus ignore the Moses torah.
D"YES – instead of just answering a direct question – you have to change scripture into a simile or metaphor so you can change its meaning R" over half of Scripture is poetry Dave, do you even understand why poetry is and why God uses poetry? simile does not change meaning. A simile is a picture similar to another picture, but both pictures are independent and never change. Love is a river, a Dam fed you some Clear was its water, traditonally done. The simile of love never changes. The simile of the Dam and river never changes. Love is never a river. A husband is never a Dam. But they can be similes. The way love flows in boundaries and is controlled by husbands to flow unto and into their wives is a simile of how rivers bound water that is dammed by a Dam and thus controlled. The two pictures are independent, yet they have similarities, of function, that is the purpose of poetry. King Tyre was a guarding human who became greedy with sin. is a simile showing another picture of Prince cherub who was a guarding cherub who became greedy with sin. The two pictures are independent of each other, but show similarities on function. This is the purpose of poetry.
D"BULL SHIT – discussed every verse – and none of them validate your doctrine But you refuse to see it R" OK discuss the simile of Ezekiel 28 than? D"How does this prevent you from answering direct questions? R" I did answer all ten of them on another post. Now you answer this simile of Ezekiel 28 than? Are cherub angels? Yes or no I get the "term" means "guard" , so the term "cherub bara" means the "guarding function was created" hence creatures were created to guard things.... do you agree? Not make your discussion and discuss....
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 26, 2022 22:30:45 GMT -5
D"God came to earth as Christ – the image of God R" So you do not consider Jesus as an eternal entity from eternity? NO – of course NOT – Christ pre-existed because Christ is the image of God
I would claim Jesus did pre-exist from eternity Then you teach that God is just a man made of biology
To address this discussion one further needs to define "echad", "elohiym" and what "similes" mean in poetry language. No one cares for you made up poetry
There is only One True God -----------------------------
D"YES – Jesus was sacrificed upon the Cross – dead as dead biology / flesh can be Christ was released – to preach to the lost in hades R" You mean the Father was sacrificed upon the Cross Your satan did not kill The Creator – man did not kill God – ABSOLUTELY REJECTED
You mean the Father was released to preach to the lost in hades? YES – that is exactly what I said – Christ was released to preach to the lost in hades I thought the lost only spent 12 months in hades, so we have a problem here Houston? So serious – Mr Honest – you never misrepresent Dave
D"YES - Jesus gave his mortal life on the Cross - DUH R" YES - Father expression gave his mortal life on the Cross - DUH THERE IS NOTHING MORTAL ABOUT THE CREATOR – God is not a man of biology --------------------------------
D"Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. The Resurrection PROVES LIFE LIVES – and God loves man so much He has provide a path way for salvation – to make it easy for man to return to God – belief is all that is required R" Again you write your theory wrong, why do you do this?
Does Scripture say this ? no So – you also deny John 3:16 – need to make it complicated for others
Joh 3:16 For "eloah" so loved the world, that "eloah" gave his "eloah" expression, that whosoever has "amanuah" in the "eloah" expression should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Instead the term used is "elohiym" not "eloah".... I wonder why Dave? Just to keep you confuses
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R" Great, than why would the Father intentionally create creatures to cause mischief? And thus cause murder, and bring in eternal death to the mischief maker and the creature spoiled by mischief?
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Such an act by the mischief maker has to be a SIN? DO you agree with this idea Dave? – YOU KNOW I DON’T
All God’s Plan – all God’s Will – there is no other creator – there is no other god capable of changing God’s Plan against God’s Will ---------------
D"There is NO commandment against deception! R" What? The judgement here is about "no wounding" no murder. Not deception. If the mischief maker does mischief, this is a sin of causing murder to the ones in the womb for ever. God causes murder – why do you think God a sinner
D"Their crime is reproducing out of their own kind R" What you just agreed to mischief maker doing mischief? Do you even know how to discuss? You just mix things together out of context so you can make it seem eveil to please your satan god The Beast does cause mischief – that is NOT A SIN The SIN of the archon / bane elohiym was o reproduce out of their Kind – Nephilim - Rephiem
D"THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE – you teach that god is dead – second death – Lake of Fire - termination of spirit – from which there is no return R" Are you dull? If you did no sin, you can return from second death ABSOLUTE NONSENSE
D"Why do you teach the New Testament is error and teach others that it can be ignored - Christian R" you need to evaluate discussions fully,,,, your are brief brevity Dave, and we have never resolved any discussion fully? Read every anti-scriptural word
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Post by Dave on Aug 26, 2022 23:07:04 GMT -5
D"BULL SHIT – discussed every verse – and none of them validate your doctrine But you refuse to see it R" OK discuss the simile of Ezekiel 28 than?
Have done this many times – you just jump up and down and call Jewish theology error
Eze 28:12 “Son of man, lift up a lament for the king of Tyre. Say to him, thus says Adonai Elohim: ‘You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
This is about man – every Jewish commentary talks of man’s SIN – Eve’s SIN
‘You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. IS NOT a statement about the Beast of Revelation who appeared in a plurality ready to devour
Eze 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering—ruby, topaz and diamond, beryl, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and emerald—your settings and your sockets a workmanship of gold—in the day you were created they were prepared.
in the day you were created they were prepared. Man created at the time of creation – Day 1 – host of heaven
Eze 28:14 You were an anointed guardian cheruv. I placed you on the holy mountain of God. You walked among stones of fire.
This was NEVER the Beast of Revelation The Beast of Revelation was never God’s friend – man was/is
Eze 28:15 You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you.
This was NEVER the Beast of Revelation IS NOT a statement about the Beast of Revelation who appeared in a plurality ready to devour
Here is you verse Eze 28:16 By the abundance of your trade they filled you within with violence. So you have sinned. So I threw you out as a profane thing from the mountain of God. I made you vanish, guardian cheruv, from among the stones of fire. This was NEVER the Beast of Revelation IS NOT a statement about the Beast of Revelation who appeared in a plurality ready to devour The metaphor is all about man – given the garden to keep
Eze 28:17 Your heart was exalted because of your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. I threw you down to the earth. Before kings I set you up as a spectacle. YES – Tyre fell - either died near the end of the siege or was replaced as part of the surrender. He was succeeded by Baal II, who ruled as a vassal to Babylon.
Eze 28:18 “‘By the multitude of your iniquities, in the injustice of your trade, you profaned your sanctuaries. So I brought fire out from within you, and it has consumed you. I have turned you to ashes on the earth in the eyes of all who saw you. YES – Tyre fell - either died near the end of the siege or was replaced as part of the surrender. He was succeeded by Baal II, who ruled as a vassal to Babylon.
Eze 28:19 All who know you among the people will be appalled at you. You have become a horror and will be nothing forever.’”
YOU - will be nothing forever.’” YET – you think this is about your satan and your satan is so powerful he can change God’s Plan against God’s Will This is just about a man – the King of Tyre – an example of any man – every man – mankind Eve - an example of any man – every man – mankind
The entire passage does not fit your satan god – and two standalone words do not a doctrine make
Precept upon precept, line upon line – the 23+49 verses about your satan do not support your doctrine And no one ever thought of your Fallen Angel doctrine until Rome invented it Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord in the service of the Lord Jewish satan – has always been beelzebul and the shedim
You deny the New Testament – and pretend Jewish theology is error You refuse to acknowledge the 23+49 verses of the Old or New Testament And you embrace Rome and its man-made doctrine of evil.
YES – YOU AND I ARE VERY DIFFERENT INDEED
Now – that I have again answered your question as fully as I can – why can’t you return the favor
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