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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2022 17:18:59 GMT -5
D" What are you trying to say – ‘aven’ is NOT the root of wickedness and evil Have you changed your mind?R" Never said aven was root of wickedness at all, only the epi-genetic potential for the root of wickedness, a biological propensity you inherit. D" I have tried R" Dave I have been reading this link and will get back to you soon www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/904960/jewish/Yesodei-haTorah-Chapter-One.htmThere are a number of Jewish discussions here on this link. D" I have told you – and told you – offered link to study material – obviously you took all that seriously What about the THREAD called - (yester ra) - YEẒER HA-RA' ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/575/yester-ra-ye-er-haR" OK will look into this D" First I have to do your homework for you – then you did not bother to read any of it You have proven yourself to be so academically seriousR" OK will look into these.... take time though... D" OK - just a word game – names do not matter – all the same entitiesR" Names do matter Dave, the archons is just "sar" a functional name, not the name of the creatures as a kind. What would that be? cherub is all the torah says. D" Please give me your verse that proves your satan opposes GodR" you in a state of denial.... Watch the movie VENOM. From a study of the Jewish ordinances and their understanding If so, what is the meaning of the expressions employed by the Torah: "Below His feet" [Exodus 24:10], "Written by the finger of God" [ibid. 31:18], "God's hand" [ibid. 9:3], "God's eyes" [Genesis 38:7], "God's ears" [Numbers 11:1], and the like?
All these [expressions were used] to relate to human thought processes which know only corporeal imagery, for the Torah speaks in the language of man. They are only descriptive terms, as [apparent from Deuteronomy 32:41]: "I will whet My lightning sword." Does He have a sword? Does He need a sword to kill? Rather, this is metaphoric imagery. [Similarly,] all [such expressions] are metaphoric imagery.
A proof of this concept: One prophet says that he saw the Holy One, blessed be He, "clothed in snow white" [Daniel 7:9], and another envisioned Him [coming] "with crimson garments from Batzra" [Isaiah 63:1]. Moses, our teacher, himself envisioned Him at the [Red] Sea as a mighty man, waging war, and, at Mount Sinai, [saw Him] as the leader of a congregation, wrapped [in a tallit].
This shows that He has no image or form. All these are merely expressions of prophetic vision and imagery and the truth of this concept cannot be grasped or comprehended by human thought. This is what the verse [Job 11:7] states: "Can you find the comprehension of God? Can you find the ultimate bounds of the Almighty?"R" So the Jews understand poetry and thus assume the Father has no form or shape like a human does? If humans are made in the image of God, gender male and gender female, what does this mean? That God has no form or shape like a human? Love is a river a dam fed you some, Clear was it's water, traditionally done. "All these are merely expressions of prophetic vision and imagery and the truth of this concept cannot be grasped or comprehended by human thought" NOT so, for indeed a simile while not the same as the thing as it portrays, does represent things that a real. Love is not real and tangible, has no form or shape. Yes. Water is the simile of love. A river is the vessel the love flows in. A river is tangible and the water in the river tangible, but love is not tangible, nor can love be bound by shape or form. But surely the similes can exist. The functions are the same though. The Dam is real and tangible, A Dam fed you love. Sometimes I see the Jewish way to viewing Scripture is weird. I would say God does have a finger, and a hand, but it is not made of matter as our hand and our finger is. The simile does point to real things, but not the same. That's why its a simile. Love is not water, that is why both are similes, but both are real entities, and both do exist. I asked you to write down all the similes in this poem, is this too hard for you? SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 13, 2022 18:20:38 GMT -5
D" What are you trying to say – ‘aven’ is NOT the root of wickedness and evil Have you changed your mind? R" Never said aven was root of wickedness at all, only the epi-genetic potential for the root of wickedness, a biological propensity you inherit. Word game – opposite to your many previous postwww.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/904960/jewish/Yesodei-haTorah-Chapter-One.htmThere are a number of Jewish discussions here on this link. You should finish the question before you – before you again change the topic1- why do you teach that God sins by violating the 10 Commandments 2- what is it a sin for man to obey God and kill / murder 3- why is it a sin for an angel of the Lord to obey God 4- why did God leave the 99% to other gods STOP WHINING THAT I DPO NOT OFFER THE CORRECT STDY MATERIALYou are so internet savay you could not find it on your own And why I found it for you – you blew it off D"Please give me your verse that proves your satan opposes God R" you in a state of denial.... Watch the movie VENOM. Sorry Robert – Hollywood is NOT scripture
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2022 15:09:51 GMT -5
Greetings Dave D"Word game – opposite to your many previous post R" No Dave, you just read what your mocking heart wants to read.... do you even understand what "epi-genetics" is?
How is this process evil ?
Epi-genetics is a recording process, what thoughts and actions you do is recorded on the DNA and inherited.... that is what "aven" is saying....
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1- why do you teach that God sins by violating the 10 Commandments 2- what is it a sin for man to obey God and kill / murder 3- why is it a sin for an angel of the Lord to obey God 4- why did God leave the 99% to other gods R" Are you a parrot, repeating the same questions over and over, I answered these already?
D" 1- why do you teach that God sins by violating the 10 Commandments R? GOD the Father cannot break any of His moral laws of love, such as wounding humans, otherwise that would be causing the judge to become a sinner Himself. And a judge requires laws that the judge upholds Himself.
Otherwise the judge is no example of love, wisdom, kindness and no wounding.
The laws are written for a reason, so even GOD can choose to break them if He wanted to, but doesn't. Not ever.
D" 2- why is it a sin for man to obey God and kill / murder In the detailed judgements of the moral law, the Father says this "Ex 23:20 Behold, I send my Messenger before thee, to keep thee in the way," Ex 23:21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
This messenger can pardon sins, and goes before Israel to keep them in the way...
For the Father's Name is in HIM.
Ex 23:22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice,
Than the Father promises to do certain things....
Ex 23:22 I will be an enemy unto thine enemies
Ex 23:27 I will send my fear before thee,
Ex 23:28 And I will send hornets before thee
Ex 23:29 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year;
Ex 23:30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.
Now I read no command, where the humans are to murder any of these people....?
So something went wrong with the "if thou shalt indeed obey his voice" ?
So the answer to your question, lies within the moral ten commandment laws about love. D" 3- why is it a sin for an angel of the Lord to obey God R" It is not sin to obey God, but God only obeys His laws, He does not transgress His own laws.
D"4- why did God leave the 99% to other gods R" God did not leave other people's without access to a Saviour, or access to the torah as a witness? Salvation has always been available to the entire world through faith in His Name. The physical guarentee of this salvation in Divine person, came down to sacrifice for sins confessed to Him, through the Hebrew people, but the spiritual access to this salvation has always been available to all people.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
D"Sorry Robert – Hollywood is NOT scripture R" Neither is Gnosticism true Scripture
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Post by Dave on Aug 14, 2022 20:56:40 GMT -5
D"Word game – opposite to your many previous post R" No Dave, you just read what your mocking heart wants to read.... do you even understand what "epi-genetics" is? How is this process evil ? Either – there is a big difference – or there is no difference Not sure which word game to answer
(yester ra) is the seat of self-preservation and the survival of the species (yester ra) without it – man would not invent farming – build bigger and better houses – engineer ways to beat the heat and survive the cold There is NOTHING evil about this – it is the commandment form God – be fruitful – multiple – subdue, conger, and have dominion
(yesater ra) does lead to sin – you called it aven – now you change your mind Does not matter what name you give it (yester ra) is not a sin – but does lead to sin I think I have said this many times
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1- why do you teach that God sins by violating the 10 Commandments 2- what is it a sin for man to obey God and kill / murder 3- why is it a sin for an angel of the Lord to obey God 4- why did God leave the 99% to other gods R" Are you a parrot, repeating the same questions over and over, I answered these already?
D" 1- why do you teach that God sins by violating the 10 Commandments R? GOD the Father cannot break any of His moral laws of love Then why do you agree that God kills and orders man to kill R" Are you a parrot, repeating the same questions over and over, I answered these already? YOUR ANSWER IS CONTRODICTORY You teach – God cannot kill / murder or command man to kill or murder But you also teach – that when God does kill / murder or orders man to do it for him – its OK bcause man deserves it
D" 2- why is it a sin for man to obey God and kill / murder In the detailed judgements of the moral law, the Father says this So the answer to your question, lies within the moral ten commandment laws about love. Yes – you are going to make the argument that the men deserved it Does not negate the fact that you feel good God – ordered a genocide at the hand of Israel D" 1- why do you teach that God sins by violating the 10 Commandments
D" 3- why is it a sin for an angel of the Lord to obey God R" It is not sin to obey God, but God only obeys His laws, He does not transgress His own laws. So when the angel of death was commanded by God to kill all the first born – wicked along with the innocent- it was not a sin OK - D" 1- why do you teach that God sins by violating the 10 Commandments
D"4- why did God leave the 99% to other gods R" God did not leave other people's without access to a Saviour That is NOT the question and you know it – what is the purpose of Israel – God Chosen people Why were the 99% left out – not given the Torah – nor given the Promise? Please answer – the answer is so simple Doesn’t Ellen White know? Surely SDA / Ellen White doctrine is complete
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 14:39:01 GMT -5
D" (yester ra) is the seat of self-preservation and the survival of the species (yester ra) without it – man would not invent farming – build bigger and better houses – engineer ways to beat the heat and survive the cold There is NOTHING evil about this – it is the commandment form God – be fruitful – multiple – subdue, conger, and have dominionR" Man building, engineering and being fruitful, etc etc, is simply man doing " reasoning" with full intelligence, got nothing to do with this "jewish invented term" you claim. Your theory seems to have components of the brain one can plug in or remove, is nonsense. D"( yesater ra) does lead to sin – you called it aven – now you change your mindR" Also nonsense, the aven is simply the recording of the choices the brain makes and they become propensities or pet habits. You cannot remove the epi-genetics like a plug or plug it back it, it works as a whole or it doesn't. D"( yester ra) is not a sin – but does lead to sin I think I have said this many timesR" Yes I realize the idea that yester ra is NOT SIN per se, but the inclination to lead to sinning. Yes. But you make it some brain component that is wired into the brain or removed from the brain, by GOD designing us. We are all intelligent or we are not, birds, animals, cows humans. Not as you claim , that some of us have different brain functions of thinking. For example A bird can say "I love you" but sadly the Lord of birds does not save the bird, as we understand Scripture, their ruwach memories are not recorded by God, but this is based on one verse, so we cannot make strong stands on this idea. I see all higher animals with intelligence. SO the cherubs also can sin or choose not to sin. Just as Alex the parrot can sin (throw a 5 yr old tantrum) or also say "I you love", Scientific facts recorded by science and published in journal's. All animals have intelligence, not as you claim some are programmed with different brains to think differently, with different components plugged into them. ----------------------------- D" Then why do you agree that God kills and orders man to killR" Are you dull? Said this already? Ex 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. This is written in the judgements, what law does this refer to? The first one. SO Israel did not keep even the first of the ten comandment law? Ex 23:23 For mine Messenger shall go before thee, Ex 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, Ex 23:27 I will send my fear before thee, Ex 23:28 And I will send hornets before thee, Ho 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. Now according to Scripture, the messenger who went before them was the Saviour. Did Israel respond to their Saviour? Yes / no? Answer no. So the humans did things in their own human strength. Aaron and Hur helped Moses portion out faith unto the battle, but I see this as a "lukewarm gathering" as Rev 3 speaks about, not a nation of pure faithful and loyal people. D" YOUR ANSWER IS CONTRODICTORY You teach – God cannot kill / murder or command man to kill or murder But you also teach – that when God does kill / murder or orders man to do it for him – its OK bcause man deserves itR" OK show me a verse where GOD explicitly tells faithful humans fully obeying Him to murder other humans? D" Yes – you are going to make the argument that the men deserved itR" No, God grants all humans (sinless or sinning, wicked or straight, no matter) on probation with His gift of living inside you. Do you agree with this idea? If God grants you this gift, does not GOD have the right to remove the gift, since you are not responding to the gift? D" So when the angel of death was commanded by God to kill all the first born – wicked along with the innocent- it was not a sinR" Along with the innocent? What are you talking about Dave? D" That is NOT the question and you know it – what is the purpose of Israel – God Chosen peopleR" Israel was to be a people as a light, to usher in the Saviour who would come as a OLAH offering for sins confessed unto Him. Other folds would come to see this and be glad, these folds are "spiritual cross over ones" D" Why were the 99% left out – not given the Torah – nor given the Promise?R" Who says they were not given torah? How much of the torah do you need to be saved? The more you know the more expected of you. Parable of the talents. D" Please answer – the answer is so simpleR" SImple? Well tell me than? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 15, 2022 19:55:45 GMT -5
There is NOTHING evil about this – it is the commandment from God – be fruitful – multiple – subdue, conger, and have dominion R" Man building, engineering and being fruitful, etc etc, is simply man doing "reasoning" with full intelligence, got nothing to do with this "jewish invented term" you claim. jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10194-lustYet in a way the Yeẓer ha-Ra', like all things which God made (Gen. i. 31), is good. Without it, for example, a man would never marry, beget, build a house, or tradeSorry Robert - Judaism is the foundation of my Christianity Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. Mat 5:18 Amen, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or serif shall ever pass away from the Torah until all things come to pass. (yester ra) = Gen 1:28 And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. A Blessing from God - to grow / progress / achieve / build / to be more than just an ant or cowD"(yesater ra) does lead to sin – you called it aven – now you change your mind R" Also nonsense, Then why did YOU bring it into the discussion You cannot remove the epi-genetics like a plug or plug it back it, it works as a whole or it doesn't. Have NO idea of your point Man cannot remove THE BLESSING of Gen 1:28 – why would you want too?D"(yester ra) is not a sin – but does lead to sin I think I have said this many times R" Yes I realize the idea that yester ra is NOT SIN per se, but the inclination to lead to sinning. Yes. I agree – smiley face(yester ra) = self-preservation and the desire to reproduce = NOT A SIN – A COMMANDMENT (yester ra) = self-preservation with its lust and desire = that is NOT a SIN but a Commandment (yester ra) = self-preservation – UNCHECKED does lead to SELFISHNESS (yester ra) = self-preservation – UNCHECKED does lead to selfish SIN – ME not GOD / WORLD not God We are all intelligent or we are not, birds, animals, cows Correct – all animals are (yester ra) – self-preservation and the survival of the species Correct – all animals have a brain – and a MEASURE of intelligence The serpent (Beast) being the most subtle of them all Not as you claim , that some of us have different brain functions of thinking. DUH – a dog – or a parrot – is much different than an alligator – or a cockroach Do bacteria and virus THINK? They figure out how to maximize the food available better than man can ----------------------------- D"Then why do you agree that God kills and orders man to kill R" Are you dull? Said this already?Ho 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. Now according to Scripture, the messenger who went before them was the Saviour. COOL – proving the TRINITY – God = ChristDid Israel respond to their Saviour? Yes / no? Answer no. So the humans did things in their own human strength. So you and Ellen White teach – it was your satan that ruled man to NOT respond?HEY SCRIPTURE STUDENT – why was Pharaoh’s heart hardened?Exo 7:2 You are to speak all that I command you and Aaron your brother is to speak to Pharaoh, so that he will let Bnei-Yisrael go out of his land. Exo 7:3 Yet I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply My signs and wonders in the land of Egypt. WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DIDExo 7:5 The Egyptians will know that I am Adonai, when I stretch out My hand against Egypt, WHY – to Jer 1:5 to all the nations of the WORLDExo 9:12 But Adonai hardened the heart of Pharaoh, so he did not listen to them—just as Adonai had said to Moses. WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DIDExo 9:14 For this time I will send all My plagues to your heart, and on your servants and your people, so that you may know that there is none like Me in all the earth. WHY – to Jer 1:5 to all the nations of the WORLDExo 10:16 Then Pharaoh quickly called for Moses and Aaron and said, “I have sinned against Adonai your God and against you. Exo 10:17 Now forgive my sin, only this once, please! So pray to Adonai your God—just so He would take this death away from me!” Exo 10:18 So he went out from Pharaoh and prayed to Adonai. Exo 10:19 Then Adonai turned the wind from the west, very strong, and it carried off the locusts and drove them into the Sea of Reeds. Not one locust remained in all the territory of Egypt. Exo 10:20 But Adonai hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let Bnei-Yisrael go. PHARAOH TRIED TO REPENT Exo 10:27 But Adonai hardened Pharaoh’s heart, WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DIDExo 11:4 So Moses said, “This is what Adonai says: At around midnight I will go out into the midst of Egypt, Exo 11:5 and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt will die—from the firstborn of Pharaoh sitting on his throne to the firstborn of the maidservant behind the mill, along with all the firstborn cattle. Exo 11:6 There will be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, the likes of which has never been before nor will ever be again. Exo 12:12 “For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night and strike down every firstborn, both men and animals, and I will execute judgments against all the gods of Egypt. I am Adonai. GOD = THE ANGEL OF DEATH – or the angel of death is working for GodActually – the angel of death idea is a post Roman addition Robert’s god must obey the 10 Commandments Exo 12:23 Adonai will pass through to strike down the Egyptians, but when He sees the blood on the crossbeam and the two doorposts, Adonai will pass over that door, and will not allow the destroyer to come into your houses to strike you down. GOD = THE ANGEL OF DEATHExo 12:29 So it came about at midnight that Adonai struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh sitting on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn cattle. GOD = THE ANGEL OF DEATHExo 12:30 Then Pharaoh rose up in the night, he and all his servants and all the Egyptians, and there was loud wailing in Egypt. For there was not a house where someone was not dead. GOD = THE ANGEL OF DEATHActually – the angel of death idea is a post Roman addition Robert’s god must obey the 10 Commandments Did Israel respond to their Saviour? Yes / no? Answer no. So the humans did things in their own human strength.ABSOLUTE GARBAGE – not a Torah teaching at all Pharaoh had no choice but to obey the LORD WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DIDGod set the whole thing up for - My signs and wondersWHY – to Jer 1:5 to all the nations of the WORLDIn this story of tov vrs ra – God was playing both sides – so that HIS WILL / HIS PLAN would unfold on earthMat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Did Israel respond to their Saviour? Yes / no? Answer no. So the humans did things in their own human strength. So you and Ellen White teach – it was your satan that ruled man to NOT respond? Correction – this is NOT satan plan – satan had nothing to do with it – satan did not force God to react or respond – your satan is not even mentioned – in the MOST CLASSIC TOV vrs RA CONFLICT IT WAS ALL GOD IT WAS ALL GOD’S PLAN IT WAS ALL GOD’S WILLGnostic call it the Great ContestD"YOUR ANSWER IS CONTRODICTORY You teach – God cannot kill / murder or command man to kill or murder But you also teach – that when God does kill / murder or orders man to do it for him – its OK bcause man deserves it R" OK show me a verse where GOD explicitly tells faithful humans fully obeying Him to murder other humans?1Sa 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. D"YOUR ANSWER IS CONTRODICTORYYou teach – God cannot kill / murder or command man to kill or murder But you also teach – that when God does kill / murder or orders man to do it for him – its OK bcause man deserves it D"So when the angel of death was commanded by God to kill all the first born – wicked along with the innocent- it was not a sin R" Along with the innocent? What are you talking about Dave?Prove to me that the infants were guilt of sins – newborns – what of the Cattel what sin did they do?D"That is NOT the question and you know it – what is the purpose of Israel – God Chosen people R" Israel was to be a people as a light, to usher in the Saviour who would come as a OLAH offering for sins confessed unto Him. Other folds would come to see this and be glad, these folds are "spiritual cross over ones" YES – I agree – now answer the question D"Why were the 99% left out – not given the Torah – nor given the Promise? R" Who says they were not given torah? You are dodging the questionD"Please answer – the answer is so simple R" SImple? Well tell me than?WHY – to Jer 1:5 to all the nations of the WORLDIsa 43:6 I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’ and to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’ Bring My sons from far and My daughters from the ends of the earth. Isa 43:7 Everyone who is called by My Name, whom I created for My glory. I formed him—yes, I made him!” Isa 43:8 Bring out the people who are blind, yet have eyes, who are deaf, yet have ears. Isa 43:9 All the nations are gathered together, and the peoples are assembled. Who among them can declare this, and proclaim to us former things? Let them present their witnesses so they may be justified, or let them hear and say, “It’s true.” Isa 43:10 “You are My witnesses”—it is a declaration of Adonai—“and My Servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me no God was formed, and there will none after Me. Isa 43:11 “I, I am Adonai—and there is no savior beside Me. Authoritative TeachingAnd before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world Jewish Answer – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will – there is no otherOr as my father would say - BECAUSE – that is the way God made it ----------------- You asked of me once Please write some discussions this time, take your time too, make it detailed too. Seems like I am the only one doing all writingSpelled it all out for yaWaiting – Still Waitingponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/580/roberts-denial-judaism?page=1#scrollTo=8512You should at least watch the video [video-https://youtu.be/PcqeERfj1vg -/video] EXPOSED: What the Rabbis may not want you to know...14:38 min
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2022 15:50:12 GMT -5
D" Sorry Robert - Judaism is the foundation of my ChristianityR" You do not support Judaism, you do not even guard the Sabbath rules, like no cooking food on Sabbath? DO you keep the Sabbath every Sabbath, from even to even? I do, I support Judaism more than you think. D"Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. R" You quote torah like this but keeping the Yud of the laws you do not do. Instead you follow the inventions and precepts of Jews, not the Judaism people who follow the Hebrew torah, sola scriptoria. Jesus was primarily murdered on the cross for breaking inventions of men in regard to Sabbath rules, and for saying He was the Son of God. (not an expression of the Father) RP" You cannot remove the epi-genetics like a plug or plug it back it, it works as a whole or it doesn't.D" Have NO idea of your pointR" Exactly... my words are foolishness to you.... I suggest you study the Hebrew torah more and throw away your Gnostic Bible... RP" We are all intelligent or we are not, birds, animals, cowsD" Correct R" SO all higher animals have intelligence, they can even choose to do TOV or do RA, built into the intelligence of the brain So this means Dave the creatures are thrown into the Lake of Fire, because they love sin more than they love God. SInning angels that choose not to repent. Their conscience is seared with a hot iron, past repenting....they know their fate, hence roaring lion, to devour humans. D" HEY SCRIPTURE STUDENT – why was Pharaoh’s heart hardened?R" I suggest before you mock and doubt so much, first come to Jesus knowing your a sinner, learn to me humble and meek, and stop asking questions that mock God... Start here spiritualsprings.org/ss-11.htmThere are over 100 pages dedicated to how to be saved... Remember God reads your mind before you are born... Pharoah was rebellious a long time ago... D" WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DIDR" God is not mocked, a man reapeth was he sows... If you walk away from God, what happens to your heart, it hardens....who hardens it? God does...why? Because you walked away...if you choose to walk back, God softs the heart again, repentance is a gift too, not something you can do either.... God is in control of every aspect of your life, you plan your course, and God directs your daily steps. (I quote scripture by the way ...) D" PHARAOH TRIED TO REPENTR" made man attempt. repentance is a gift from God... D" GOD = THE ANGEL OF DEATH – or the angel of death is working for GodR" I suggest you begin on the easier verses first.... not concern yourself with matters too high for you. . (I quote scripture by the way ...) D" ABSOLUTE GARBAGE – not a Torah teaching at all Pharaoh had no choice but to obey the LORDR" Please explain D" God set the whole thing up for - My signs and wondersR" A poetry type for the end of time, yes. D" In this story of tov vrs ra – God was playing both sides – so that HIS WILL / HIS PLAN would unfold on earthR" Hmm? What about the end of time, that soon follows Pharoah's story God raises up antichrist, that sweeps across the world... Habukuk 1:3-6 D" Gnostic call it the Great ContestR" Hebrew call it the Great Controversy Isa 8:12 RP" OK show me a verse where GOD explicitly tells faithful humans fully obeying Him to murder other humans?D" Jos 11:6-12 / Exo 17:13-14 + many more examples “…for I will utterly blot out the memory of the Amalekites from under heaven.”R" Cannot GOD remove the gift of probation from those who refuse the gift? You seem to think the first death is natural don't you? It is a gift that you are alive... and God can keep you living even when your body should have died years before under natural processes. D" You teach – God cannot kill / murder or command man to kill or murder But you also teach – that when God does kill / murder or orders man to do it for him – its OK bcause man deserves itR" I teach no such thing, stop putting your ideas into my mouth. D" Prove to me that the infants were guilt of sins – newborns R" Epi-genetics proves that inherited children follow their parents and their parents, God waited 400 years....you reach the condition of unpardonable sins Rp R" SImple? Well tell me than?D" WHY – to Jer 1:5 to all the nations of the WORLD Than you post, and post Isa 43:10 “You are My witnesses And nothing came into being without his wish. Rob" Including SINNING, does Gnostic imply this Dave? D"J ewish Answer – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will – there is no otherR" SO the Father wanted to bring a universe of SIN into being, is that the Gnostic SIMPLE answer you posted, and we are witnesses to this SIN process? What is simple in your post? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 17, 2022 2:41:40 GMT -5
D"Sorry Robert - Judaism is the foundation of my Christianity R" You do not support Judaism, you do not even guard the Sabbath rules, like no cooking food on Sabbath? DO you keep the Sabbath every Sabbath, from even to even? As I have said – we try to have a Friday night sater
I do, I support Judaism more than you think. You have adopted some rituals – but reject Jewish theology or demonology I accept Jewish theology and demonology as represented by the CONTEXT of Jesus Christ What did it mean in the CONTEXT of Jesus Christ – the only relevant issue
D"Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Torah or the Prophets! I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. R" You quote torah like this but keeping the Yud of the laws you do not do. Sorry – read the agl/NY and get back to me Rituals and the Law cannot save you
RP" You cannot remove the epi-genetics like a plug or plug it back it, it works as a whole or it doesn't. D" Have NO idea of your point R" Exactly... my words are foolishness to you.... I suggest you study the Hebrew torah more Repeat - Man cannot remove THE BLESSING of Gen 1:28 – why would you want too?
RP" We are all intelligent or we are not, birds, animals, cows D" Correct R" SO all higher animals have intelligence, they can even choose to do TOV or do RA, built into the intelligence of the brain (yester tov) has nothing to do with biology or the brain – it is from the soul – the spirit within
So this means Dave the creatures are thrown into the Lake of Fire, because they love sin more than they love God. Creatures of the world – will pass away because the WORLD will pass away -----------------------
D"HEY SCRIPTURE STUDENT – why was Pharaoh’s heart hardened? R" I suggest before you mock and doubt so much, There are over 100 pages dedicated to how to be saved... WOW – over 100 pages just to say Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Why do you make salvation so complicated – its NOT What does that have to do with the story of the Exodus?
D"WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DID R" God is not mocked, a man reapeth was he sows... SORRY Robert – your doctrine does not supersede scripture Read the scripture - WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DID
D"PHARAOH TRIED TO REPENT R" made man attempt. repentance is a gift from God... OK – why did your Feel Good God of Love and Mercy – deny someone repentance?
D"GOD = THE ANGEL OF DEATH – or the angel of death is working for God R" I suggest you begin on the easier verses first.... not concern yourself with matters too high for you. . (I quote scripture by the way ...) SORRY Robert – your doctrine does not supersede scripture
Exo 12:12 “For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night and strike down every firstborn, both men and animals, and I will execute judgments against all the gods of Egypt. I am Adonai.
Exo 12:23 Adonai will pass through to strike down the Egyptians,
H3068 – יְהֹוָה - yehôvâh - From H1961; (the) self Existent or eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God: - Jehovah, the Lord.
D"ABSOLUTE GARBAGE – not a Torah teaching at all Pharaoh had no choice but to obey the LORD R" Please explain GOD HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART – GOD DENIED PHARAOH’S REPENTENCE Pharaoh had no choice Just as Balaam could speak - only God Will
D"God set the whole thing up for - My signs and wonders R" A poetry type for the end of time, yes. OK – God set the whole thing up to teach a precept
D"In this story of tov vrs ra – God was playing both sides – so that HIS WILL / HIS PLAN would unfold on earth R" Hmm?
Exo 7:1 So Adonai said to Moses, “See, I have set you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother will be your prophet. Exo 7:2 You are to speak all that I command you and Aaron your brother is to speak to Pharaoh, so that he will let Bnei-Yisrael go out of his land. Exo 7:3 Yet I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply My signs and wonders in the land of Egypt.
God sent Moses unto Pharaoh - and God hardened Pharaoh’s heart To facilitate God’s Will on earth
D"Gnostic call it the Great Contest R" Hebrew call it the Great Controversy Contest takes place on the earth – your Great Controversy is between two gods in heaven
RP" OK show me a verse where GOD explicitly tells faithful humans fully obeying Him to murder other humans? D" Jos 11:6-12 / Exo 17:13-14 + many more examples “…for I will utterly blot out the memory of the Amalekites from under heaven.” R" Cannot GOD remove the gift of probation from those who refuse the gift? Sorry Robert – your doctrine does not supersede scripture God killed all the first born of Egypt
D"You teach – God cannot kill / murder or command man to kill or murder But you also teach – that when God does kill / murder or orders man to do it for him – its OK bcause man deserves it R" I teach no such thing, stop putting your ideas into my mouth. Then why do you say God killed all the first born of Egypty R" Cannot GOD remove the gift of probation from those who refuse the gift? Correct – God can kill – or send man or angel to kill those necessary to facilitate God’s Will on earth
Rp R" SImple? Well tell me than? D" WHY – to Jer 1:5 to all the nations of the WORLD D"Jewish Answer – all God’s Plan – all God’s Will – there is no other What is simple in your post? What is complicated about it is God’s Plan / God’s Will?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2022 15:23:38 GMT -5
D"You have adopted some rituals – but reject Jewish theology or demonology R" Such ideas is not in the Hebrew torah, DUH
Not Hebrew, maybe not Judaism, but certainly Jewish.
There are many origins of people in Israel, and Jewish is not from Judea, and a Hebrew is a true crossed over supporter of Yashuah.
D"I accept Jewish theology and demonology as represented by the CONTEXT of "R" Gnosticism R" I accept the Hebrew torah.
Not Jewish traditions
D"Rituals and the Law cannot save you R" correct. But they are written as prayer promises and speaking the promises so God flows from that promise does save you.
We must be prayers of the word, that allows us to be responders of the word, thus we become truly empowered to be doers of the word.
D"Creatures of the world – will pass away because the WORLD will pass away R" What? I look forward to playing with lions like kittens in the restored earth, and riding the dinosaurs like Adam did.
What do you mean the creature of the world pass away?
Must you compare a sinning angel spoiling our world to a mere creature like a cow wanting to walk in our world, without sinning with evil intent?
D"Why do you make salvation so complicated – its NOT R" Didn't even read the link did you?
Why is it complicated is because of pride...
D"What does that have to do with the story of the Exodus? R" everything, Pharoah was full of pride...
D"Read the scripture - WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DID R" you do NOT read my posts do you?
Ac 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
If repentance is a GIFT, than pride is a decision NOT to receive the GIFT, hence GOD hardens the heart, because you refuse, and it you pray for the gift, GOD softens the heart because you wish to receive...
Think of relationship, you are standing before GOD, pride is walking away from God and humility is walking towards God.
Queston" How do you walk away or walk toward God? do you walk? No
Answer. God carries you towards or away.
Pr 16:9 ¶ A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
You choose, and GOD does the rest.
Pharoah made his choice and so God responds.
D"OK – why did your Feel Good God of Love and Mercy – deny someone repentance? R" God didn't, He made the choice alone... His choice...
RP" R" I suggest you begin on the easier verses first.... not concern yourself with matters too high for you. . (I quote scripture by the way ...) D" SORRY Robert – your doctrine does not supersede scripture
R" Ps 131:1 .LORD, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me. 2 Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child. 3 Let Israel hope in the LORD from henceforth and for ever.
R" well if you are not willing to follow Scripture principles, you are denying Scripture entirely....
D" Exo 12:23 Adonai will pass through to strike down the Egyptians, R" This is a poetry type. Yes it did happen to real literal people. Yes it is going to happen again in the end time, just before the Exodus from earth to heaven, when the Saviour comes to strike all the ones who refuse to seek Him, and they perish. Question: If after 10 miracles, the people refuse to repent and seek Him, what else can God do but remove your existence from Him for eternity.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Here is poetry antitype. Exodus is a type for the end time scene at the Second Coming. Exodus was the First Coming.
And earth is fully restored as it once was in the Third Coming.
D"Pharaoh had no choice Just as Balaam could speak - only God Will R" OH so now you are saying the wicked Balaam was forced to speak blessing? Are you dull?
DO you think the wicked hate God so much that they cannot also have respect for God?
Sure the wicked can speak blessings and still hate God?
Just as Satan the oppose has respect and obeys God for somethings, Satan is still hating God.
God is bigger than they are, so respect is required... they know who keeps them alive...
Pharoah had a choice, but He refused. Baalim had a choice, but He refused.
Wicked people still respect God, they just refuse to follow God.
And your Jewish silly notion of spending only 12 months in the fire removes the soul from refusing God to praising God, is pure fiction.
DO you really think a wicked person who respects God will choose to follow and serve God? No, they don't.
You seem to think sinning is trivial and easily fired away in 12 months of fire....No....
The soul is bent on choice and pride follows choice, so they do not change. Not even in the presence of God do they change choice.
D" OK – God set the whole thing up to teach a precept R" No, the FIrst coming is a parallel of the second coming, a parallel of the third coming. We have to choose and respond to His pleading.
He is a provider, we are responders, we have to respond.
Do we though? Here is the curse of Christian Salvation....
Ho 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. 5 ¶ I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought. 6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
Earth in SIN is a simile of DROUGHT and choas. Our Saviour comes to SAVE all the people, and some respond, maybe once, maybe for a few weeks...
But eventually we grow used to being saved, and out pride rises and we forget the PRESENCE but love the PRESENTS.
Christmas teaches us, every year, we love the presents but not the presence.
Pride is the biggest and ONLY SIN that prevents you from being saved. "I am your Saviour" be humble, not proud."
And what are we saved from? What are we rescued from?
Dave says the world is to blame? You have said this for three years.... the archons only side track humans to want the world.... really Dave?
Ho 13:7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion:
Why is the Saviour a simile of a lion?
Don't lions eat humans? They can. Ho 13:8 I will ... devour them like a lion:
What, our Saviour devours us like a lion, what does the Saviour eat daily in us? Our pride. Ho 13:9 ¶ O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself;
How do we destroy ourselves? With SELF, and PRIDE
Ho 13:10 I will be thy king:
Another poetry simile, so our Saviour is a Lion as well as a King.
Ho 13:12 The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up; his sin is hid.
Our sins are hid within us, and these are eaten by the Lion of Judah our Saviour and our King.
Ho 13:13 The sorrows of a travailing woman shall come upon him..
Why the mention of the woman in labour pains? Wasn't the mischief maker spoiling the woman in labour pains?
Ho 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: And did the mischief come with it's penalty of death ?
Ho 13:15 Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness,
There are two winds here with two Hebrew words, tells us the two winds are different... Who is this other wind? (Yes it is controlled by the LORD, but is this wind a different power?)
Ge 41:6 And, behold, seven thin ears and blasted with the east wind sprung up after them. This east wind spoils things.
Ex 10:13 And Moses stretched forth his rod over the land of Egypt, and the LORD brought an east wind
Here are the two winds side by side, suggesting the east wind is the same as the ruwach wind?
Gnostics say God is both the TOV and RA, the controller of the EAST WIND and the RUWACH WIND. For here we see "qadiym ruwach" together?
Ps 78:26 He caused an east wind to blow in the heaven: and by his power he brought in the south wind.
A new Hebrew word, the "south wind"
Ho 12:1 ¶ Ephraim feedeth on wind "ruwach", and followeth after the east wind "qadiym":
Here the two winds are different.
Ho 13:15 Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels.
Again the east wind spoils...
Jon 4:8 And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.
Here God controls the strong "qadiym ruwach" that JOnah wishes to die
Rob: SUmmary? Hmm? confusing to say the least?
D"God was playing both sides – so that HIS WILL / HIS PLAN would unfold on earth R" Maybe?
D"Contest takes place on the earth – your Great Controversy is between two gods in heaven R" Not quite, Earth is centre stage, and heaven and ther unfallen worlds are looking at us, how SIN is played out.
So the god in heaven is fighting the god on earth... (I use this picture loosely )
The Jesus did come to earth in the First coming personally to win back earth over the SIN issue by fighting against the LION of SIN and his pretend KING over humans who are slaves to His sinning.
Notice the poetry similes
Lion of SIN who is a KING of the world, with cattle sinners.
( I have a hypothesis, the east wind is from this other Lion of Sin who is a pretend elohiym King over many humans)
D"Sorry Robert – your doctrine does not supersede scripture God killed all the first born of Egypt R" Have it your way, hope it works for you?
RP" R" Cannot GOD remove the gift of probation from those who refuse the gift? D" Correct – God can kill – or send man or angel to kill those necessary to facilitate God’s Will on earth R" No not wound, God gave them 10 plagues to choose, they refused,, so God takes away the gift of living.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2022 4:13:46 GMT -5
There are many origins of people in Israel, and Jewish is not from Judea, DUH – Judah is where the term Jew comes from – the other 10 tribes were Samarian
and a Hebrew is a true crossed over supporter of Yashuah. OK – why do you say Jesus is dead
D"I accept Jewish theology and demonology as represented by the CONTEXT of JESUS CHRIST R" I accept the Hebrew torah. NO – you demand that everyone in Jesus' time believed as Rome teaches
D"Creatures of the world – will pass away because the WORLD will pass away R" What? I look forward to playing with lions like kittens in the restored earth, and riding the dinosaurs like Adam did. OK – the BEAST and company will pass away
Must you compare a sinning angel spoiling our world to a mere creature like a cow wanting to walk in our world, without sinning with evil intent? The Beast is call a BEAST – what does BEAST mean in your ahl/OT Hebrew?
D"Why do you make salvation so complicated – its NOT R" Didn't even read the link did you? NO – why do I need to read over 100 pages to know John 3:16?
D"Read the scripture - WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DID R" you do NOT read my posts do you? WHAT DOES SCRIPTURE SAY?
Pharoah made his choice and so God responds. Read the scripture - WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DID Why must you change scripture to fit your doctrine
D"OK – why did your Feel Good God of Love and Mercy – deny someone repentance? R" God didn't, He made the choice alone... His choice...
Exo 10:16 Then Pharaoh quickly called for Moses and Aaron and said, “I have sinned against Adonai your God and against you. Exo 10:17 Now forgive my sin, only this once, please! So pray to Adonai your God—just so He would take this death away from me!” Exo 10:18 So he went out from Pharaoh and prayed to Adonai. Exo 10:19 Then Adonai turned the wind from the west, very strong, and it carried off the locusts and drove them into the Sea of Reeds. Not one locust remained in all the territory of Egypt. Exo 10:20 But Adonai hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let Bnei-Yisrael go.
Read the scripture - WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DID Why must you change scripture to fit your doctrine
R" well if you are not willing to follow Scripture principles, you are denying Scripture entirely.... You mean – you believe scripture must follow Ellen White principles / doctrine Read the scripture - WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DID Why must you change scripture to fit your doctrine
D" Exo 12:23 Adonai will pass through to strike down the Egyptians, R" This is a poetry type. Yes it did happen to real literal people. Yes it is going to happen again in the end time, just before the Exodus from earth to heaven, when the Saviour comes to strike all the ones who refuse to seek Him, and they perish.
So your god kills in Egypt and in the end times Why do you continue to say – God must obey the 10 Commandments? Your teaching is contradictory
Question: If after 10 miracles, the people refuse to repent and seek Him, what else can God do but remove your existence from Him for eternity. The Egyptian people had nothing to do with it – it was all up to Pharaoh God only hardened Pharaoh’s heart
D"Pharaoh had no choice Just as Balaam could speak - only God Will R" OH so now you are saying the wicked Balaam was forced to speak blessing? Are you dull? WOW – you argued the Balaam story for a year – and you do not know the story If you say you teach Torah – why don’t you know Torah?
Num 22:9 God came to Balaam and asked, “Who are these men with you?” Num 22:10 Balaam said to God, “Balak son of Zippor, king of Moab, sent word to me: Num 22:11 See, the people coming out of Egypt cover the surface of the land. Come now, curse them for me. Perhaps I will be able to fight against them and drive them away!” Num 22:12 God said to Balaam, “Do not go with them! Do not curse them, for they are blessed!”
Dave says the world is to blame? You have said this for three years.... the archons only side track humans to want the world.... really Dave? NO WAY – the WORLD is NOT to blame – STOP blaming your sin on another You are to blame – I am to blame – Eve was at fault
D"God was playing both sides – so that HIS WILL / HIS PLAN would unfold on earth R" Maybe? NOT maybe – Factual – stop denying scripture
D"Contest takes place on the earth – your Great Controversy is between two gods in heaven R" Not quite, Earth is centre stage, and heaven and ther unfallen worlds are looking at us, how SIN is played out.
In Seventh-day Adventist theology, the Great Controversy theme refers to the cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and Satan, also played out on earth. Ellen G. White, a co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, delineates the theme in her book The Great Controversy, first published in 1858.
D"Sorry Robert – your doctrine does not supersede scripture God killed all the first born of Egypt R" Have it your way, hope it works for you? Prove to me the Hebrew scripture is in error
RP" R" Cannot GOD remove the gift of probation from those who refuse the gift? D" Correct – God can kill – or send man or angel to kill those necessary to facilitate God’s Will on earth R" No not wound, God gave them 10 plagues to choose, they refused,, so God takes away the gift of living. NOT WOUND – JUST KILL – what a stupid word game you play
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2022 16:32:10 GMT -5
D "OK – why do you say Jesus is dead R" How can Jesus be dead if He is our High priest in heaven?
D"NO – you demand that everyone in Jesus' time believed as Rome teaches R" How come hardly any Jews understood amanuah in Christ in the OT? Only now in the NT has this concept come to be understood, yet hardly anybody in the world understands faith in Christ? So is FAITH also a Roman edit like Satan too, as you claim?
Really Dave, stop mocking the fact that Jews did not understand their own torah? The fact that God sent prophet after prophet, tells us the Jews never understood, so God kept sending prophet after prophet. Even had to destroy the temple on earth twice....
Had to exile Jews twice, but still they do not get how to have faith in Christ.... one lonely prophet wrote
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
So how well was faith understood by the Jews? Not at all.
And if a cherub did sin and is now a prince of this world, wanting to make humans cattle under him in their sinning, do you really think this prince will allow a Hebrew people learn how to live differently from this prince under the faith of YHWH? Hell no.
This is why the prince battled every move against Israel, until every one of them failed to follow YHWH correctly.
Out of 3 million, only 2 walked into the promised land. That is a great victory for this prince on earth. And the Jews just see this prince as a God directed angel doing the dirty work of God?
D"OK – the BEAST and company will pass away R" Yes because of their SINS they pass away, their sinning is held accountable under God. That is why the Scripture write, a cherub sinned. Angels are accountable for their sinning.
SO are humans. And the straight humans will replace the crooked angels, and thus the harmony is restored, and SIN never comes into being ever again.
D"NO – why do I need to read over 100 pages to know John 3:16? R" Pride is a difficult subject. D"Read the scripture - WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DID R" Who makes us repent Dave?
GOD does.
Humans cannot repent under their own power either.
God gives us repentance, as a gift. All you have to do is ask.
Who makes us walk away from God, Dave?
GOD does.
Humans cannot wander away from GOD, because SINNING does not naturally exist under God, so God has to make the fruit of sinning exist for you even to sin in the first place.
All you have to do is ask to walk away from GOD and God will do as you requested.
Thus God hardens your heart because you wished it that way.
D"Why must you change scripture to fit your doctrine R" I am fitting all the themes, line upon line, remember? You cannot understand my view, because in your view, GNostic say God lives in RA naturally....this is wrong. This implies that when people sin they do not require God to help them sin, the sin is natural as well.
But Scripture says God hardened Pharoah's heart, Pharoah did not naturally rebel.
Under GNostic view, Pharoah should naturally rebel, but He didn't. Under my view, RA and SIN does not exist under GOD. SO if you wish to rebel, GOD has to harden you heart so you can rebel, and make the RA so you can see your SIN. SO if you wish to repent, GOD has to soften your heart, so you can repent, and make the RA and your SIN go away, so you can return to your GOD.
D"So your god kills in Egypt and in the end times R" Not kills, but remove His living from you, you are living under probation, and your probation time is up.
The commandment say NO wounding.
It does not say No Killing.
Ge 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill "nakah" him.
Jeff sees this meaning "crushed"
Ex 2:14 And he said, Who made thee a prince and a judge over us? intendest thou to kill me, as thou killedst the Egyptian?
Jeff sees this meaning as "kill"
harag means to kill.
"Behold the Person's Head Tramples"
The ten commandment says Ex 20:13 No wounding "ratsach"
The meaning is you are not to remove the ability of a human to choose salvation. no mocking no bullying no abusing their self esteem no deceiving
The narrow meaning of "harag " is implied, ( I suppose) "Thus the striker terminates the thinking process of the human".
The judgements include Ex 21:12 ...He that smiteth <nakah> a man... to "crush" A man to death Ex 21:14 ... to slay <harag> him A man killed.... Ex 21:17 And he that curseth <qalal> his father.... wounding them Ex 21:22 If men strive <natsah> a pregnant woman .... a mischief maker
So the judgements are varied for different cases of "wounding".
D"Your teaching is contradictory R" What is contradictory?
D"The Egyptian people had nothing to do with it – it was all up to Pharaoh God only hardened Pharaoh’s heart R" You think? How come many Egyptians also placed blood on their door posts and went with the Israelites?
D"Num 22:12 God said to Balaam, “Do not go with them! Do not curse them, for they are blessed!” R" Dave's discussion? Is this not Balaam respecting God by blessing Israel, even though Balaam would normally curse Israel?
When opponents of a war come to discuss respectfully, yet they both hate each other, why the cease fire and the friendly discussion? Why do drug slaves trust the drug lord handing over cash for drugs, is their respect among the wicked? Apparently so...?
D"You are to blame – I am to blame – Eve was at fault R" I see, so why was the ARAM creature in the garden than? And why did the ten commandments include "no false elohiym powers" than written during Sabbath creation, BEFORE humans even SINNED.... who is this "false elohiym powers" than?
D"In Seventh-day Adventist theology, the Great Controversy theme refers to the cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and Satan, also played out on earth. Ellen G. White, a co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, delineates the theme in her book The Great Controversy, first published in 1858. R" correct? The battle is over the SIN problem.
D" Exo 12:12 “For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night and strike down every firstborn, both men and animals, and I will execute judgments against all the gods of Egypt. I am Adonai. R" Notice this striking is a judgement....
A poetry type for the judgement of all living creatures and humans that SIN.
D"NOT WOUND – JUST KILL – what a stupid word game you play R" Maybe, explain why different Hebrew words exist than? Ex 20:13 No wounding "ratsach" Ex 2:14 ....intendest thou to kill "harag" me, Not a word game at all, I just read the Hebrew as it reads...
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 21, 2022 3:43:58 GMT -5
D "OK – why do you say Jesus is dead R" How can Jesus be dead if He is our High priest in heaven? D "So your god is dead – died upon the cross - dead for all eternityR" No, Jesus fully human has the breath of life making his soul live Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
It says LIFE for LIFE, more than just rising from the dead... its says eternal LIFE for eternal LIFE. When Jesus died, the soul died,… Then why do you preach that God is dead PLEASE MAKE UP YOUR MIND D" you demand that everyone in Jesus' time believed as Rome teaches R" How come hardly any Jews understood amanuah in Christ in the OT? You ask – why didn’t the Jews understand Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ was born OK – why didn’t the gentiles understand Jesus Christ before He was born?Really Dave, stop mocking the fact that Jews did not understand their own torah? WOW – you claim you support the Torah – yet you are anti-Semitic Just Ellen White programmed double speakSo how well was faith understood by the Jews? Not at all. So Jews like Abraham - Moses – Joshua – Elijah – Elish – never knew or understood their religionD"NO – why do I need to read over 100 pages to know John 3:16? R" Pride is a difficult subject. So – do you write 100 pages about salvation – or your prideD"Read the scripture - WHO HARDENED PHARAOH’S HEART? = GOD DID R" Who makes us repent Dave? Looking for your answer – where is it – you just changed the topicR" Who makes us repent Dave? GOD does. Humans cannot repent under their own power either. Humans cannot repent – what a LIEGod gives us repentance, as a gift. All you have to do is ask. Unless your name is Pharaoh Who makes us walk away from God, Dave? GOD does. So – now your satan is God himself?D"So your god kills in Egypt and in the end times R" Not kills, but remove His living from you WHAT A CONTRODICTION – word game D"Pharaoh had no choice Just as Balaam could speak - only God Will R" OH so now you are saying the wicked Balaam was forced to speak blessing? Are you dull?WOW – you argued the Balaam story for a year – and you do not know the story If you say you teach Torah – why don’t you know Torah?D"Num 22:12 God said to Balaam, “Do not go with them! Do not curse them, for they are blessed!” R" Dave's discussion? Is this not Balaam respecting God by blessing Israel, even though Balaam would normally curse Israel? YES – Balaam had no choice but to obey God – just like Pharaoh D"You are to blame – I am to blame – Eve was at fault R" I see, so why was the ARAM creature in the garden than? Because he is a part of this WORLD - D"In Seventh-day Adventist theology, the Great Controversy theme refers to the cosmic battle between Jesus Christ and Satan, also played out on earth. Ellen G. White, a co-founder of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, delineates the theme in her book The Great Controversy, first published in 1858. R" correct? The battle is over the SIN problem. Between two gods in heaven and on earthD" Exo 12:12 “For I will go through the land of Egypt on that night and strike down every firstborn, both men and animals, and I will execute judgments against all the gods of Egypt. I am Adonai. R" Notice this striking is a judgement.... A poetry type for the judgement of all living creatures and humans that SIN. D"NOT WOUND – JUST KILL – what a stupid word game you playR" Maybe, explain why different Hebrew words exist than? Word games – to miss the POINT – your God kills and asks man to kill – to facilitate God’s Will on earth
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 5:23:48 GMT -5
D" It says LIFE for LIFE, more than just rising from the dead... its says eternal LIFE for eternal LIFE.R" Yes, correct. I don't have all the answers to this Dave. My two pennies are poor answers indeed. Jesus is both human and divine, but lived under the breath of life from the Father via the HS as humans do. When He died, eternal life for eternal life was exchanged.... I imagine He gave up his human breath of life living, and kept his body decaying using His divinity powers. Perhaps He rose in His divinity powers? But many SDA consider the fact that Jesus gave up some divinity powers for dying for our sins, this eternal exchange, life for life. I sway more to this idea. Jesus is permanently encapsulated by humanity, and left some divine powers in the grave for eternity. Just my two pennies worth. D" You ask – why didn’t the Jews understand Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ was bornR" What? Jesus pre-existed as YHWH from eternity, and came as the messenger for His Father, saved Israel from Egypt and asked Israel to have faith in His Name as their Saviour. Only later in the NT YHWH-Jesus came as a human. D" So Jews like Abraham - Moses – Joshua – Elijah – Elish – never knew or understood their religionR" These prophets did, yes , but the ordinary people, they often did not understand. D" So – do you write 100 pages about salvation – or your prideR" Why don't you find out and read the website. I have read entirely your website twice over. And if you explained Gnostic or CHristian views in detail, I would read it very intently indeed, and ask you questions from your website. But you have no witness, except here, the brevity Dave. D" Humans cannot repent – what a LIE SO you deny ScriptureR" Ac 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; Repentance is a GIFT from God. SO cannot repent under normal human powers, God has to empower you to repent, but only if you ask or choose to ask. Same idea as rebel, you cannot rebel unless GOD paves the path for you to SIN and rebel, because such things normally do not exist in God's world. D" WHAT A CONTRODICTION – word gameR" Killing somebody is to work death from outside towards the inside of your body, ie a sword from outside moves inside your body. But God strikes you from inside, moving outside, and internally all the atoms cease to function and you fall to the ground literally breaking apart. I showed the the verse already. This is not normally understood as killing, more ending the probation time of relationship to God. For example do you really think the nails, the torture and and mocks killed Jesus? Or was it that Jesus died from within when His Father left Him , from a heart membrane burst from internal agony, not external killings. D" YES – Balaam had no choice but to obey God – just like PharaohR" Why than does Balaam suggest to enemies to send lusty woman to tempt the Israel men to sin and fornicate ? No blessing now? Only telling the enemy how to make Israel fall into sin. Balaam was a sinning prophet, but God managed to get Balaam to bless Israel.... I do not see force here... D" Because he is a part of this WORLD - R" Than there should be mention of the creation of this creature in Genesis, but there is NO mention. You premise is bogus Dave. Where does the term "serpent" come from? Ge 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. Arrh yes the "nachash" was made in Creation. But not the speaking elohiym power possessing the "nachash".... who was he? Nu 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents Nu 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent " saraph" , and set it upon a pole: The Hebrew word " saraph" meaning "fire burning" gives a clue. Isa 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims " saraph" : each one had six wings; These creatures of "fire burning" have six wings. Are there any "holy fire burning creatures" near the throne of God, that have a Hebrew word as well as being created by God? Only the cherub fits this description. SO I find the " fire burning creature" was not of this world, but came to be in our world because it sinned and was banished to earth. D"W ord games – to miss the POINT – your God kills and asks man to kill – to facilitate God’s Will on earthR" Sorry I have no better answer for you... God's strange act, is something we will have to ask Him during our judgement by God. So if you don't like reading Hebrew word meanings, why do you translate words as a scholar than? Or do you play word games only you like to play? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 21, 2022 9:27:00 GMT -5
D"It says LIFE for LIFE, more than just rising from the dead... its says eternal LIFE for eternal LIFE. R" Yes, correct. I don't have all the answers to this Dave. You mean – you cling to an incomplete doctrine – instead of scriptureJesus is both human and divine, but lived under the breath of life from the Father via the HS as humans do. Jesus is (100% Biology Son of Man) + (100% God) Just as all men are (biology) + (spirit)When He died, eternal life for eternal life was exchanged So you teach - Jesus is dead and gone eternally - Lake of Fire the Second DeadBut many SDA consider the fact that Jesus gave up some divinity powers for dying for our sins, this eternal exchange, life for life. I sway more to this idea. Jesus is permanently encapsulated by humanity, and left some divine powers in the grave for eternity. Just my two pennies worth. The divinity of Jesus was limited by the flesh No such thing as any part of God dead and gone eternally D"You ask – why didn’t the Jews understand Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ was born R" What? Jesus pre-existed as YHWH from eternity, Proving that God = Christ Repeat - why didn’t the Jews understand Jesus Christ before Jesus Christ was bornD"So Jews like Abraham - Moses – Joshua – Elijah – Elish – never knew or understood their religion R" These prophets did, yes , but the ordinary people, they often did not understand. These men knew God and walk with God in spirit – communion – face to face with God – spirit to spirit They knew and understood their faith MORE than you can even imagine So why are you so anti-Semetic claiming all Jews are wrong and all Judaism is wrong
Balaam was a sinning prophet, but God managed to get Balaam to bless Israel.... I do not see force here... Correct – Balaam could only do as God directed - Just like Pharaoh D"Because he is a part of this WORLD - R" Than there should be mention of the creation of this creature in Genesis, but there is NO mention. You premise is bogus Dave. Where does the term "serpent" come from? Rev 12:9 - And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world.Ge 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. Arrh yes the "nachash" was made in Creation. YES – the serpent was created by God But not the speaking elohiym power possessing the "nachash".... who was he? Rev 12:9 - And the great dragon was thrown down—the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world.
Nu 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents YES – God sent them – not satan – God is in controlNu 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent "saraph" , and set it upon a pole: The Hebrew word "saraph" meaning "fire burning" gives a clue. YES – expose the archon for who they are and they lose their power over you Children are afraid of unidentified noises in the dark Turn on the light and expose the noise as – the squeaky door – the furnace fan – the hot water pipes Even children become unafraid Isa 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims "saraph" : each one had six wings; These creatures of "fire burning" have six wings. YES – multidimensional creatures – serving GodAre there any "holy fire burning creatures" near the throne of God, that have a Hebrew word as well as being created by God? Only the cherub fits this description. Why do you deny the New Testament and call yourself Christian Col 1:16 – archon – made by Him for HimD"Word games – to miss the POINT – your God kills and asks man to kill – to facilitate God’s Will on earth R" Sorry I have no better answer for you... God's strange act, is something we will have to ask Him during our judgement by God. Your God does not kill – just takes away your living Repeat - Word games – to miss the POINT – your God kills and asks man to kill – to facilitate God’s Will on earth
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 16:14:23 GMT -5
D"Col 1:16 – archon – made by Him for Him
R" So this means GOD intentionally designed archons and intentionally planned for SINNING to come into the human world, so the Father would have to be glorified with His special salvation plan for Sinning, all intentionally planned?
You are saying GOD is the author of SIN, and intentionally can murder humans if God wants to?
If this your view ?
Shalom
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