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Post by Dave on Aug 7, 2022 20:25:43 GMT -5
D"You are not serious – you do not present a consistent doctrine So serious – so academic R" If you were serious you would discuss my discussions, but you don't. You are trying to avoid answering a direct question
1- Robert said = D"- Why is it a sin to obey God? R" Been in this before. It is not a sin to obey God, but God does not ask you to disregard His own laws. + 2- Robert said = R” God cannot ask a human to kill another human. That would make GOD and the human doing the killing, both guilty of sin. + Robert said = When Aaron and Hur were holding up the arms of Moses firmly, which is what Amanuah in Exodus 17:12 means, the flow of GOD continued into every soldier until they wiped out every enemy of GOD. The flow is voluntary, the ruling is voluntary....
First you say – God is limited to the 10 Commandments Then you make absolute examples of how God obeys His 10 Commandments Then discuss God killing through man
D"what is this 10 Commandment crap that God must obey A Dave monologue question, nobody understands. You teach / preach a contradictory doctrine Your feel good God that does no harm kills through man You are trying to avoid answering a direct question
D"Why do you deny scripture – I thought you teach the Tanak is the truth R" A Dave monologue response, nobody understands. One of your primary teaching has to be error – they both cannot co-exist
Please explain – your god is limited to obey the 10 Commandments – or NOT Please explain – why you deny your god does any ra
Isa 45:5 I am Adonai—there is no other. Besides Me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known Me, Isa 45:6 so they may know, from the rising to the setting of the sun, that there is no one besides Me. I am Adonai—there is no other. Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things.
Judaism 101 – God’s Plan is God’s Will on earth – because God is Absolute Sovergien Please explain why your god is NOT in control --------------------
D"amanuah is an action word – it means to go forth and Jer 1:5 "R what is discussion about that? Nothing. It's a Dave monologue. Your teaching here = "amanuah is an action word Your teaching here = amanuah - you must use it or loss it Now you pretend you don’t understand your own teaching?
Question" Are we supposed to KNOW all the answers in the tanak Dave? Y?N? Does this mean when you know you are contradictory – you don’t question or correct yourself
D"Who rules you? – Are you not responsible for your own choices? R" How can I have free will if my spark TOV mind has to be constantly harassed with the biological RA mind? constantly harassed with the biological RA mind? This is a good way to say it (smiley face) (heart) (heart) (kiss) (kiss) another (smiley face)
IGNORANCE IS BLISS – Personal story – 1975 Pacific Ocean east of Okinawa – drunk Marines swimming in the ocean Something big touched us from below – could NOT get out of the water fast enough To this day – there is not a rearview mirror large enough to get me in open water
If you were camping in a jungle and laydown to sleep in your sleeping bag You would never fall asleep if you could see and hear every potentially harmful bacteria, insect, mammal, reptile or fowl
If you like to parachute – fun fun fun until the parachute doesn’t open
Ignorance is bliss - but Eve choose the Tree of Know;ledge between Good and Evil
Eve sinned – Gen 3 – LIFE IS HARD – life is filled with hardships to overcome One of those obstacles = Eph 6:12 – the spiritual element of the Contest Put in place by God – God’s Will – God’s Plan
How is this free will? Is it NOT a constant tyranny? The tyranny would be to deny man the choice God love you so much – He gave you the Free Will Choice God loves you so much – He lets you go God loves you so much -He rejoices when you return to Him
D"Who rules you? – Are you not responsible for your own choices? So Eve was correct, she blamed the creature, and Adam was correct, he blamed the woman, and the creature was correct, it blamed God for designing it.
And God is to blame for placing the tov mind into a ra mind of biology? OH – now it is God fault for give you the choice D"Who rules you? – Are you not responsible for your own choices?
Why does GOD further increase the harassment of the mind with creatures who also think RA? This is unfair, more tyranny influences Why do you Not trust in the Lord? Why do you deny scripture? 1Co 10:13 No temptation has taken hold of you except what is common to mankind. But God is faithful—He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you can handle. But with the temptation He will also provide a way of escape, so you will be able to endure it.
D"OH – you mean there are different levels of strong authority God or gods – some are kings – magistrates – judges – commanders – teachers – parents – spouce To everyone else on the planet – this is POLYSEMY R" SO now who is not serious, raise your game Dave. Avoid – evade – dodge - deny
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2022 15:47:24 GMT -5
D" 1- Robert said = D"- Why is it a sin to obey God? R" Been in this before. It is not a sin to obey God, but God does not ask you to disregard His own laws. + 2- Robert said = R” God cannot ask a human to kill another human. That would make GOD and the human doing the killing, both guilty of sin. + Robert said = When Aaron and Hur were holding up the arms of Moses firmly, which is what Amanuah in Exodus 17:12 means, the flow of GOD continued into every soldier until they wiped out every enemy of GOD. The flow is voluntary, the ruling is voluntary....
First you say – God is limited to the 10 Commandments Then you make absolute examples of how God obeys His 10 Commandments Then discuss God killing through man R" SO you find my analysis conflicting and confusing?
I will try again Dave.
Question" Why does GOD give things for man to do, that is NOT part of His absolute will, but of His conditional will?
In other words God gives humans things to do that is not helpful for a sinless human, but helpful only in the context of a sinning human. God sees the human sinning and give the "humans RA things to do" in order to raise the sinning human to a new level of being sinless, than the conditions would change.
For example, plants make more quality fruit when tried... heat or cold or both.
Humans love more deeply when they come out of deeper depravity.
So a stiff neck Israelite was a soldier experiencing tough times because that is all they knew was tough love. Why did God require circumcision, when it is meaningless? Possibly to try the stiff neck into humility, but it failed to achieve this?
The threat of dying in a battle does not make the soldiers cry out for faith either, only Aaron and Hur see the problem in the truest sense and task Moses hands for a flow from God.
I see the children battling in human strength alone, with God helping them.
To answer your question, why does God ask humans for help, rather than God wiping out the wicked nations themselves,
consider...
why did Jesus require a man to wash of the clay himself before He could see? Other times Jesus opened the blind without human actions. Some humans say "God helps those who help themselves" an idiom not sure I agree.
But God does work with humanity... and often uses RA to get RA-humans to become Tov-humans, so God can use Tov things on them.
There are other Hebrew words for killing. I do not see wiping out a nation that wishes not to live for God as an act against the command, no wounding.
I hope this helps you.
D"You teach / preach a contradictory doctrine Your feel good God that does no harm kills through man You are trying to avoid answering a direct question R" The woman convicted of adultery was forced into sex by the same men who caught her in the act. Jesus allows any man to throw a stone, but he writes into the sand the night each man has sex with her, he too should be stoned too. Disciples ask Jesus, why did Moses allow divorce than? Jesus answered because the stiff necks were hard, so they wanted excuses to leave their wives. Not everything written in Scripture is God's will for a sinless life.
D"One of your primary teaching has to be error – they both cannot co-exist R" Hmm? God was dealing with stiff necks, lukewarmers, so gave them lukewarming things to do, to wake them into a sinless attitude of loving God better, yet I do not see any transgression of the moral laws by GOD in this arrangement. Yes it's strange, and yes God seems hard at times.
D"Please explain – why you deny your god does any ra R" Hmm? God created rain and snow and these things are RA, the fruit of sinning by Adam, yet out of SINS God created "things of RA that are functional, despite not being functional in a sinless world" Perhaps this is my best answer for you Dave, I can move a little towards your view and write this as it is written.
This implies God does creates RA in only a RA world in order to
1) move RA humans back to His world of TOV 2) in order to preserve the RA world from futher chaos 3) in order to demonstrate RA affects from humans who sin
Thus we have GOD who knows both Tov and RA. So yes God does some RA in a RA only world.
My point is GOD does not ever do RA in a tov only world, nor does natural ra things like entropy will exist.
D"Please explain why your god is NOT in control R" You forget a MEDIUM, to make a medium you require an absolute sovereign almighty controller over all things, so inside the medium both RA and TOV can exist.
RA cannot exist outside the medium. Because it would cease to exist in the presence of a perfect absolute sovereign almighty controller over all things.
SO yes GOD is always in control, has to be like this.
D" Your teaching here = amanuah - you must use it or loss it Now you pretend you don’t understand your own teaching? R" Yes correct, so stop mixing your view with my view. Keep your view separate ...
D"Does this mean when you know you are contradictory – you don’t question or correct yourself R" Yes, correct, I see your point. -----------------------------------------
RP " R" How can I have free will if my spark TOV mind has to be constantly harassed with the biological RA mind? constantly harassed with the biological RA mind? D" This is a good way to say it R" glad you agree, than my next logical step is
"the intelligent mind is free to reason, without entities as you claim. Yester tov and tester ra do not exist as single Hebrew words, these are inventions of men. Nor does "free will" exist either as an entity. Instead man can reason freely with his mind to follow certain inclinations of the mind and heart, to pursue yester tov using faith in God, or pursue yester ra, and thus sin eventually before God. The reasoning ability can do either of these two choices at any time. There is no harassment, no battle within the mind. It has peace.
This explains why Adam lived in peace for 33 years without sin.
The opposer who sins, came to Eve tempting her to sin, like the creature who also sins, is why Adam and Eve fell into sinning. Something you oppose, but that is your choice.
D"OH – now it is God fault for give you the choice R" in my view, I can never say that. When we have reason to reason in our mind and see a sinning angel saying its OK to sin, we need only say words of power and they come overcoming the tempter and he flees. But if we do not say those words of faith, the almighty power does not flow into you, and so you listen to the sinning agent, and begin sinning yourself.
We have no excuse, faith is more powerful and we need only speak the words to have God in our lives. However in peer group pressure we forget to speak words of faith, and so we end up sinning.
So me choosing words every day, by faith, is ME wishing to be ruled by GOD continually... totally different to the opposer who wishes to control your reasoning powers, so you are continually sinning, serving the opposer. One is forced, the other voluntary, such are the rulers who rule.
RP" Why does GOD further increase the harassment of the mind with creatures who also think RA? This is unfair, more tyranny influences D" Why do you Not trust in the Lord? Why do you deny scripture? R" The answer lies in abandoning Gnostic views Dave, because my view makes more logical sense than yours does.
I choose to be ruled by GOD, I choose to speak faith words every day, I choose to allow His love flow into me. Voluntary slavery if you will...an idiom...
The other is not a choice, the opposer wants to think that sinning is great....sure its fun but does not satisify, has thrills of death but does not last in happiness, the drug high is always followed by a drug low. 1Co 10:13 No temptation has taken hold of you except what is common to mankind. But God is faithful—He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you can handle. Notice faith here. And notice the temptor comes from the opposer.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2022 0:26:59 GMT -5
First you say – God is limited to the 10 Commandments Then you make absolute examples of how God obeys His 10 Commandments Then discuss God killing through man R" SO you find my analysis conflicting and confusing? I will try again Dave. Question" Why does GOD give things for man to do, that is NOT part of His absolute will, but of His conditional will? No more pages and pages of justification – just answer the question
You teach God must obey the 10 Commandments You even say God could never do harm – or ask a man to kill But – your God does do harm and does ask man to kill Which contradictory teaching is correct?
D"One of your primary teaching has to be error – they both cannot co-exist R" Hmm? God was dealing with stiff necks Then God is NOT limited by the 10 Commandments – that teach was wrong
D"Please explain why your god is NOT in control R" You forget a MEDIUM, God is the medium – the Holy Spirit – the Spirit of God D"Please explain why your god is NOT in control
D"Does this mean when you know you are contradictory – you don’t question or correct yourself R" Yes, correct, I see your point. -----------------------------------------
D"OH – now it is God fault for give you the choice R" in my view, I can never say that. Then why did you say it?
We have no excuse, Then why do you blame it on your satan
RP" Why does GOD further increase the harassment of the mind with creatures who also think RA? This is unfair, more tyranny influences D" Why do you Not trust in the Lord? Why do you deny scripture? R" The answer lies in abandoning Gnostic views 1Co 10:13 No temptation has taken hold of you except what is common to mankind. But God is faithful—He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you can handle. But with the temptation He will also provide a way of escape, so you will be able to endure it.
So now you call the agl/NT Gnostic
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2022 5:35:32 GMT -5
D"No more pages and pages of justification – just answer the question You teach God must obey the 10 Commandments You even say God could never do harm – or ask a man to kill But – your God does do harm and does ask man to kill R" Yes God must obey his own ten commandments, otherwise GOD cannot JUDGE, and a JUDGE requires universal LAWS in which to JUDGE.
This one theme "judge" proves GOD has to obey His own laws.
The rest of your question regards why GOD used men to kill humans, when God should have judged them wicked worthy of death by Himself. Scripture does say hornets wiped them out, not the Israel soldiers? But hey, this is weird? So I cannot speak much about why Dave....I have tried answering before...
D"Please explain why your god is NOT in control R" Why do you think this way? God is always in control over the SIN problem. -------------------------
God does not tempt anybody, James says.
Dave ignores the Scripture and says God has a department for tempting humans to sin.
That makes GOD guilty of tempting humans to sin. Its a crime by association.
Tempt is the opposite meaning of try or test. God can test obedience in humans. But God cannot tempt humans to sin.
Your reason for having creatures to tempt Adam to sin, is false. God would not design a design like that. Nor has the creature been designed to develop free will. Expressing free will, is the idea of learning to sin, is it not?
God is not in the business of getting humans to learn to sin. You speak of Eve going downward to hell as if a love mission. Totally wrong idea of sin. Suddenly your religion has no sin basis.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2022 7:42:41 GMT -5
D"No more pages and pages of justification – just answer the question You teach God must obey the 10 Commandments You even say God could never do harm – or ask a man to kill But – your God does do harm and does ask man to kill R" Yes God must obey his own ten commandments, otherwise GOD cannot JUDGE, and a JUDGE requires universal LAWS in which to JUDGE.
Robert said = When Aaron and Hur were holding up the arms of Moses firmly, which is what Amanuah in Exodus 17:12 means, the flow of GOD continued into every soldier until they wiped out every enemy of GOD. You God kills and directs man to kill – your teaching is contradictory Why must you deny the totality of scripture to keep your Ellen White doctrine true --------------------
D"Please explain why your god is NOT in control R" Why do you think this way? God is always in control over the SIN problem.
Your satan change all of God’s creation against God’s Will You world is NOT as God Planned or Willed – your satan changed it all D"Please explain why your god is NOT in control -------------------------
Your reason for having creatures to tempt Adam to sin, is false. God would not design a design like that. Nor has the creature been designed to develop free will. Expressing free will, is the idea of learning to sin, is it not? Why do you deny the totality of scripture to keep you Ellen White doctrine true Precept upon precept, line upon line – remember Isaiah
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2022 15:09:23 GMT -5
D"You God kills and directs man to kill – your teaching is contradictory R" Hmm?
Isa 28:21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
This verse may offer clues, no help from Perazim, Gibeon is found mostly in Joshua, but the word "strange" is interesting.
Isa 28:22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth. God is a consumption?
Isa 28:24 Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?
A plough breaks down the proud soil making it more humble.
So this offers a clue as to why God asked humans steeped in pride and lukewarmness to wipe out the nations that refused to repent even after 400 years of grace.
Also God sees the future...
1Ki 11:1 ¶ But king Solomon loved many strange women,
And also
Ezr 10:10 .., Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel.
I also found this
Eze 44:24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths
I thought you said GOD does not content with a controversy?
And this
Eze 20:25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live; 26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the LORD.
Why does GOD give humans statutes not good for them?
In other words because the SIN problem, and the level of depravity in man, GOD gives humans RA statutes in order to break down their pride and make them humble.
Now I have opened this discussion into many themes
(1) God cannot sin, but could if He wanted to, but doesn't; otherwise He cannot judge, and the Opposer would win the controversy. Therefore no where do I find GOD transgressing His own laws.
Falsify this idea if you can, or want to.Or do you agree with me?
(2) God does make RA statutes for humans steeped in RA, in order to break their pride and make them more humble. This is my hypothesis for partly the strange act.
Falsify this idea if you can, or want to. Or do you agree with me?
(3) Corporate functions. Something I suspect, when a leader prays for amanuah this does not mean each individual is receiving amanuah and saved by that amanuah. This theory is about corporate prayers verses individual prayers. My understanding a person is saved individually, but GOD sometimes functions for the group. So maybe some soldiers were killing the wicked using God's powers, and maybe some were killing humans using their own strength, which means nothing to God. Falsify this idea if you can, or want to. Or do you agree with me? ------------------------------------------------------
D"Your satan change all of God’s creation against God’s Will You world is NOT as God Planned or Willed – your satan changed it all D"Please explain why your god is NOT in control R" You have a problem with SIN.
Why is this?
When a human children sin,
they change things, they spoil things, your house is no longer at peace; the parents get sad.
Explain to me why you do not understand SIN and what rebellion means?
I have recently learned Gnostic views (from you) does not have a SIN problem, so your view is steeped with the idea that Eve went down into hell to do a TOV act of love. How sick and wrong is Gnostic view. -----------------------------------------------
D" Precept upon precept, line upon line – remember Isaiah Tempt, is a contraymn, a meaning that only exists when SIN exists. In the Hebrew language in heaven, where sinless things exist, "tempt" is not existing. Therefore Dave, GOD cannot "tempt" such Hebrew meanings do not exist in a sinless world. The word "curse" also does not exist in a sinless world.
Do you get my idea on this?
Also the creature of ARAM existed before MAN existed, before day 6, tells me that GOD was in tension BEFORE man existed (war in heaven) so this tension is already a SIN problem Gnostic views fail to recognize.
You supply lots of evidence GOD nacah his people, tests them in a positive sense. All these verses speak in the context of SIN and getting people to be SINLESS, hence the JUDGE tests them to see if they REMAIN sinless, by investigating the level of their FAITH.
GOD does NOT nacah SINLESS people.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2022 16:56:05 GMT -5
D"You God kills and directs man to kill – your teaching is contradictory R" Hmm? Isa 28:21 - This verse may offer clues, … the word "strange" is interesting. You can call it strange – or a mystery – but your teaching that God does no harm or cannot commands man to kill Is absolute garbage – error – a complete falsehood – has absolutely no scriptural bases from the ahl/OTWhy is Ellen White’s basic doctrine based on lie and error --------------------- Eze 44:24 - I thought you said GOD does not content with a controversy? I say – there is NO Great Controversy between God and satan in heaven I absolutely deny the theology of a God of TOV locked in a controversy with a god of ra I absolutely deny the idea of two opposing gods in heaven----------------- Now I have opened this discussion into many themesYes – you have tried to justify your error – but it has no impact on your teachingYour God does no harm and never commands man to kill another – is a false teaching(1) God cannot sin, - DUH to sin is to disobey God ( 2) God does make RA … the strange act.Absolutely agree – I have always said this – and you have always disagreed with me
Isa 45:5 I am Adonai—there is no other. Besides Me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known Me, Isa 45:6 so they may know, from the rising to the setting of the sun, that there is no one besides Me. I am Adonai—there is no other. Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. First you say – God is limited to the 10 Commandments Then you make absolute examples of how God obeys His 10 Commandments Then discuss God killing through man R" SO you find my analysis conflicting and confusing? I will try again Dave. Question" Why does GOD give things for man to do, that is NOT part of His absolute will, but of His conditional will? No more pages and pages of justification – just answer the question Finally a truthful answer for Robert (2) God does make RA … the strange act.------------------------------------------------------ D"Your satan change all of God’s creation against God’s Will You world is NOT as God Planned or Willed – your satan changed it all D"Please explain why your god is NOT in control R" You have a problem with SIN.DUH – Rom 5:12 – just how many times must I quote the agl/NT to you before you believe it?When a human children sin, they change things, - yes – they commit spiritual suicide and are headed for the Lake of Firethey spoil things, - yes- they spoil their opportunity for eternal lifeyour house is no longer at peace; - no proof of this – there are many happy sinners in the world the parents get sad. – DUH – disappointed - agreeExplain to me why you do not understand SIN and what rebellion means? SIN – means disobedience or transgression – and it means death I have recently learned Gnostic views (from you) does not have a SIN problem,DUH – Rom 5:12 – just how many times must I quote the agl/NT to you before you believe it?I do NOT have the view that your satan rewrote all the DNA and changed all the world away from Godthe idea that Eve went down into hell to do a TOV act of love. How sick and wrong is Gnostic view.Name calling is the frustration of a child The idea of Eve stepping into the lower world is 100% Jewish- from Rabbi Friedman Why is misrepresentation and name calling your only academic argument----------------------------------------------- Therefore Dave, GOD cannot "tempt" Do you get my idea on this? DUH – I am a Gnostic remember and I accept the Gnostic writing you call the agl/NTGod test His peopleJas 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, Jas 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. Jas 1:4 And let endurance have its perfect work, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. Jas 1:12 Happy is the one who endures testing, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord promised to those who love Him. Testing = a joy and happiness – the opportunity to serve and witnessJas 1:13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God”—for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He himself tempts no one. God does not temp man directly – he has a staff for thatEph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ARCHON – created by God for GodCol 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desire. HIS OWN DESIRE – (yester ra)Jas 1:15 Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; (yester ra) leads to SINand when sin is full grown, it brings forth death. Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Jas 1:16 Do not be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. Robert teaching that GOD does NOT nacah SINLESS people. Is absolute garbage and error God test all His people – to see if they will keep His mitzvahs or not – and all men are sinners
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2022 4:45:41 GMT -5
RP" Eze 44:24 - I thought you said GOD does not content with a controversy? D" I say – there is NO Great Controversy between God and satan in heaven I absolutely deny the theology of a God of TOV locked in a controversy with a god of ra I absolutely deny the idea of two opposing gods in heaven R" Well what about a Controversy between sinning angels as (pretend elohiym powers) on earth, and the true eloihym power in heaven? DO you agree with this?
(notice I remove term "gods" and the location of the battle is earth, not heaven)
RP" (1) God cannot sin, D" - DUH to sin is to disobey God R" We cannot even agree here? Sin is defined as transgression of the Law, not disobeying God...
A prophet disobeyed God, and refused to cook with human dung, because it violates God's ordinance. So God was testing the prophet.
You do not even know the definition of SIN.
So GOD can sin, simply by transgressing His own laws.
RP" (2) God does make RA statutes for humans steeped in RA, in order to break their pride and make them more humble. D"(2) God does make RA … the strange act. Absolutely agree – I have always said this – and you have always disagreed with me. R" What you posted is NOT what I said, you left out heaps of context, so as to align my statement with your Gnostic views, which is very unfair of you. ---------------------------
When a human children sin, they change things, - (
D"yes – they commit spiritual suicide and are headed for the Lake of Fire;
R" They change the parents love response)
they spoil things, - (D" yes- they spoil their opportunity for eternal life
R" They spoil the relationships between child and parent)
your house is no longer at peace; (
D" - no proof of this – there are many happy sinners in the world
R" The parents home is strained with rebellion in the home, tensions between parents and the rebellious one)
the parents get sad. (
D" –DUH – disappointed - agree
R" The parents grieve more than the sinner does)
RP" Explain to me why you do not understand SIN and what rebellion means? D" SIN – means disobedience or transgression – and it means death
R" SIN affects the parents MORE than it does the sinning children, they think sinning is fun, exalting pride and self/
Dave you focus on the sinner, notice my focus is on GOD, the heavenly parents.
D"I do NOT have the view that your satan rewrote all the DNA R" Of course you don't, your creatures are programmed only to do yester ra, which I assume includes all kinds of evil plans and thinking does it not?
How ironic you never think of yester ra through to all levels of sin and depravity? Or did the Father only design certain levels of RA in these creatures?
RP" the idea that Eve went down into hell to do a TOV act of love. How sick and wrong is Gnostic view. D" Name calling is the frustration of a child The idea of Eve stepping into the lower world is 100% Jewish- from Rabbi Friedman Why is misrepresentation and name calling your only academic argument R" You cannot read my idioms Dave,
"sick" is not name calling.
I am referring to the way Gnostic remove the idea of SIN and replace it with natural ra, that GOD uses to produce natural TOV. What does Scripture say about this?
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! So calling Gnostic view sick, is a correct label as an idiom for me, not name calling at all, but Gnostic view terms that which is SINFUL into natural RA than becomes good.
D"DUH – I am a Gnostic remember and I accept the Gnostic writing R" Yes you are. You have a different religion to the Moses torah.
D"ARCHON – created by God for God R" Really, how come GOD judges the archon and throws them into the Lake of Fire, if God created them and is happy with their functions on earth? You Gnostic theory is in tatters. Sixth time I have asked this question, and I get no response.
D"God test all His people – to see if they will keep His mitzvahs or not – and all men are sinners R" I see a problem here Houston.... does Dave believe all men are sinners? Do we remain sinners, or become sinless? Isn't the purpose of salvation to make humans sin less and less until we are no longer sinning? And this is achieved in faith in our Saviour?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2022 8:21:38 GMT -5
RP" Eze 44:24 - I thought you said GOD does not content with a controversy? D" I say – there is NO Great Controversy between God and satan in heaven I absolutely deny the theology of a God of TOV locked in a controversy with a god of ra I absolutely deny the idea of two opposing gods in heaven R" Well what about a Controversy between sinning angels as (pretend elohiym powers) on earth, YES – there is a Contest taking place on earth between man and archon – man and WORLD – Gen 3:15
RP" (1) God cannot sin, D" - DUH to sin is to disobey God R" We cannot even agree here? Sin is defined as transgression of the Law, not disobeying God... Who makes the LAW – God does - DUH to sin is to disobey God
So GOD can sin, simply by transgressing His own laws. You continue to speak of the 10 Commandments We have just established that the 10 Commandments are not to govern God but give to man to govern man ---------------------------
D"I do NOT have the view that your satan rewrote all the DNA R" Of course you don't, your creatures are programmed only to do yester ra, which I assume includes all kinds of evil plans and thinking does it not? Again – you refuse to acknowledge the Jewish concept of (yester ra) – there is nothing evil about (yester ra) Why is misrepresentation your only argument – MR HONEST
RP" the idea that Eve went down into hell to do a TOV act of love. How sick and wrong is Gnostic view. D" Name calling is the frustration of a child The idea of Eve stepping into the lower world is 100% Jewish- from Rabbi Friedman Why is misrepresentation and name calling your only academic argument
R" You cannot read my idioms Dave, "sick" is not name calling. To call Jewish teaching Gnostic just because you do not like what it says = misrepresentation To attempt to diminish Jewish teaching by calling it Gnostic to make it sound un-Jewish – but you are wrong and you know it – but you say it anyway D" Name calling is the frustration of a child
R" Yes you are. You have a different religion to the Moses torah. Why am I the one defending the ahl/OT – while you continue to rewrite it to fit Ellen White doctrine
D"ARCHON – created by God for God R" Really, Why do you deny the agl/NT – and call yourself a Christian Christ is the image of God on earth – and the archon were created BY God For God
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2022 17:31:53 GMT -5
D" YES – there is a Contest taking place on earth between man and archon – man and WORLD – Gen 3:15R" Great So if the contest is between man and the Aram creatures, and Jesus came as a man, and is forever lives in our humanity in heaven, suddenly this contest is also about GOD? DO you agree? The ARAM creature tried to get Jesus to sin, clad as a human, so further proof the contest is about God too. D" Who makes the LAW – God does - DUH to sin is to disobey GodR" You didn't think this through did you? Why does GOD make universal laws? Because once they are made, God has to obey them, not Himself. This makes even GOD subject to His own laws, and allows an OPPOSER to oppose Him. Otherwise like your GG view, you don't have nothing opposing GG. ( GG- my idiom for your Gnostic God) D" We have just established that the 10 Commandments are not to govern God but give to man to govern manR" They have to include GOD as well, otherwise GOD cannot be a JUDGE, both to HIMSELF and others HE creates, ALL with FREE WILL by the way, including birds and cats and dogs and humans and cherubs. This way a creature can oppose God and make God unfair because He doesn't follow His own laws. In in your GG theory you have no universal laws, so how on earth can anybody be a judge? Or oppose the GG? So you cannot have sinning either, because nobody can oppose the GG. D' Again – you refuse to acknowledge the Jewish concept of (yester ra) – there is nothing evil about (yester ra)R" OH so there is nothing evil about yester ra, boy I am silly. so explain were evil comes from than, and do NOT use the term RA. So according to your GG theory you can't sin. Because you cannot do evil, only the RA which is good according to you. You seem to think a car with faulty breaks is good, I would hate to be driving in your car. And its OK to do adultery at times, its just natural RA, no real disobeying my wife or my God, just self preservation and going forth as a bee among flowers. How nice your GG theory is. D" the 10 Commandments are not to govern God R" Really, are they not ten words about love? (1) I am your saviour, Love me, not Self (2) I am your covering, Love me who provides all things for you, not love my presents, love my presence. (3) I am your words, speak them in faith, not your words of nothingness, because without me in your life, you are nothing. (4) Share your response with me on ceasing day, let me love your relationally as a marriage does. Let us love together, walk and talk together. (5) I am your father and mother (6) I am living (7) I am relational (8) I am the owner of all (9) My words are true (10) Desire me If you consider the ten words as negatives, they speak of creatures who hate, kill, murder, rape, lie and steal, and are selfish, proud and cruel,
and thus OPPOSE GOD.
Are you so blind? the words were written twice by the finger of GOD on stone. D" Why is misrepresentation ? R" I am sorry, so where is the evil component in your GG theory? In my view, RA is the fruit of SIN, and SIN is unknown, and unknown in origin, something God cannot control , He can only limit the creatures that do sins, so as to preserve His own functions of love. Otherwise RA is like a black hole, never satisfied. Pr 30:15 ¶ The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough: 16 The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.So for this reason, GOD limits the sinning process. He does this in various ways, like the Global Flood for instance, D" The idea of Eve stepping into the lower world is 100% Jewish- from Rabbi FriedmanR" I would like to speak to this Rabbi, his idea of this is foolish. Like saying the Jews loved their holocaust process? D" Why am I the one defending the ahl/OT ?R" giggle laugh smile, are you for real? You don't even follow the Hebrew torah. D"Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities "arche", or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"arche" means what ? beginning, magistrates? What is the Hebrew word for "arche"? Is it not "re'shiyth" ? So it cannot mean "archons", it means the "beginnning". All things with a beginning were created by GOD. This includes the cherubims too. All things are TOV. This includes the cherubims too. However a chief cherub sinned. GOD never created sin. However your GG theory suggest God did, intentionally creating yester ra, WAIT, yester ra is not sin, its just animals with bad attitudes. So your GG theory has no evil, no depravity words of wrong doing? What do Jews have for the source of evil than, extreme wrong doing like hate, rape, murder, steal and abuse, cruel torture, liars, cheaters, etc. What Hebrew word is used for this idea? Ge 19:19 lest some evil (ra) take me, and I die: Ge 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil (ra) against me Ex 10:10 ...look to it; for evil (ra) is before you. Ex 23:2 Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil (ra); Seems to be in over 500 verses, the Hebrew word "ra" means "Evil" There is also "rasha" that means wicked Ex 23:1 ¶ Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked (rasha) So do you have Jewish ideas of the differences between ra and rasha, or perhaps a definition of RA from Jewish perspective? Please write some discussions this time, take your time too, make it detailed too. Seems like I am the only one doing all writing
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Post by Dave on Aug 11, 2022 1:11:26 GMT -5
D"YES – there is a Contest taking place on earth between man and archon – man and WORLD – Gen 3:15 R" Great So if the contest is between man and the Aram creatures, and Jesus came as a man, and is forever lives in our humanity in heaven, suddenly this contest is also about GOD? DO you agree? Word chain – if A = B and B=C then you can make E mean anything you wantThe contest is between biological Jesus – Son of Man – on earth and satan on earth And the only offering satan had to give – world – here on earthThe ARAM creature tried to get Jesus to sin, clad as a human, so further proof the contest is about God too. Sorry Robert – Jesus was tempted because he is (yester ra) – 100% biology Christ said (yester tov) “It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.” – 100% God in carnateD"We have just established that the 10 Commandments are not to govern God but give to man to govern man R" They have to include GOD as well, otherwise GOD cannot be a JUDGE, HERE WE GO – Mr Academic Honesty1- R" God does not ask you to disregard His own laws. + 2- R” God cannot ask a human to kill another human. That would make GOD and the human doing the killing, both guilty of sin. + 3- R’ When Aaron and Hur were holding up the arms of Moses firmly, which is what Amanuah in Exodus 17:12 means, the flow of GOD continued into every soldier until they wiped out every enemy of GOD. The flow is voluntary, the ruling is voluntary.... + 4- Your God orders a genocydeYou teach – God must obey the 10 Commandments – no killing – no murder But your God kills and directs man to kil Your teaching is contradictoryWhy must you deny the totality of scripture to keep your Ellen White doctrine true --------------- D'Again – you refuse to acknowledge the Jewish concept of (yester ra) – there is nothing evil about (yester ra) R" OH so there is nothing evil about yester ra, boy I am silly. so explain were evil comes from than, and do NOT use the term RA. So according to your GG theory you can't sin. Because you cannot do evil, only the RA which is good according to you. And its OK to do adultery at times, its just natural RA, no real disobeying my wife or my God, just self preservation and going forth as a bee among flowers. How nice your GG theory is. Whenever you calm down and ask an intelligent question – I try to answer But why should I bother with your misrepresentation – when you know you are writing garbageLike saying the Jews loved their holocaust process? why should I bother with your misrepresentation – when you know you are writing garbageWhat is the Hebrew word for "arche"? Is it not "re'shiyth" ? So it cannot mean "archons", it means the "beginnning". Roberts word game – not playing Hebrew archon = the Beelzebul and the shedim – and you Know itPlease write some discussions this time, take your time too, make it detailed too.Robert's - denial of Judaism - posted 7 hrs ago ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/580/roberts-denial-judaism?page=1&scrollTo=8483
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2022 17:06:57 GMT -5
Greetings Dave,
HERE WE GO – Mr Academic Honesty
1- R" God does not ask you to disregard His own laws. + 2- R” God cannot ask a human to kill another human. That would make GOD and the human doing the killing, both guilty of sin. + 3- R’ When Aaron and Hur were holding up the arms of Moses firmly, which is what Amanuah in Exodus 17:12 means, the flow of GOD continued into every soldier until they wiped out every enemy of GOD. The flow is voluntary, the ruling is voluntary.... + 4- Your God orders a genocyde R" Who is academically honest? Not Dave. You had your opportunity to discuss my discussions before, but you refused. Instead you wait until I build up enough spurious quotes to throw back at me later, quoted out of context, twisting without discussion, for what purpose, to mock.
If you wanted to fight a different tack, you should have discussed my discussions in your rebuttal, but no rebuttal does Dave ever write. You can either start all over again we debate correctly, or you can drop the whole subject, because you have no idea how to debate. Look how much I write every post, compared to your writings? I am academic and I write, Brief Brevity Dave, makes no rebuttal, so I do choose not to reply to your out of context postings.
D"Whenever you calm down and ask an intelligent question – I try to answer But why should I bother with your misrepresentation – when you know you are writing garbage R" But you said yester ra is not evil? OK what is it than? Inclination to do evil? What's the difference Dave? Is this a word game you play?
D"Roberts word game – not playing Hebrew archon = the Beelzebul and the shedim – and you Know it R" so you are saying the Hebrew word "shad" is the Greek word "archon".
OK show me how the LXX translates the verses than that uses "SHAD" twice?
"Shedim is the Hebrew word for demons. The word shedim appears only twice (always plural) in the Tanakh, at Psalm 106:37 and Deuteronomy 32:17".
Psalms 106:37
LXX_WH(i) 37 ( I show the last word) G1140 N-DPN δαιμονιοις
Notice the quote in the NT
1Co 10:20 ...they sacrifice <thuo> to devils <daimonion>, And the Greek
twn daimoniwn ginesqai (TR)
The LXX is using the term devils "daimonion" NOT "arche"
Now your turn to discuss Dave, write a rebuttal
DO not wait later to mock me out of context. Here is your chance to defend your view. Write your rebuttal now.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 11, 2022 19:57:25 GMT -5
If you wanted to fight a different tack, you should have discussed my discussions in your rebuttal, but no rebuttal does Dave ever write.
quoted out of context, twisting without discussion, for what purpose, to mock.
Here is the context and the discussion First you claim – a golden rule God must obey His own 10 Commandments Your God can do no harm – you God cannot ask a man to kill another Then you post about God killing the wicked and using Joshua to do it
What you teach is contradictory – period
you should have discussed my discussions in your rebuttal YES – you wrote pages and pages on why man deserved it Does not negate that your God kills and orders man to kill ---------------------------
Look how much I write every post, compared to your writings? YES – you write pages and pages off topic to justify your false teaching - true
R" But you said yester ra is not evil? OK what is it than? Inclination to do evil? I thought you said it was the word ‘aven’
What's the difference Dave? I could tell you – and have told you – but it is a 3000 year old basic Jewish teaching – so you must reject it – won’t study it – refuse to understand it – just so you can keep asking these question from ignorance
Is this a word game you play? NOPE - it is a 3000 year old basic Jewish teaching
D"Roberts word game – not playing Hebrew archon = the Beelzebul and the shedim – and you Know it R" so you are saying the Hebrew word "shad" is the Greek word "archon".
the LXX translates - δαιμονιοις YEP – demons / devils
Notice the quote in the NT 1Co 10:20 ...they sacrifice <thuo> to devils <daimonion>, YEP – demons / devils
And the Greek twn daimoniwn ginesqai (TR) YEP – demons / devils The LXX is using the term devils "daimonion" NOT "arche" Now your turn to discuss Dave, write a rebuttal Here is your chance to defend your view. Write your rebuttal now.
Ok – I will repeat what I have always said
The Beast – that ancient serpent race – that we call devils and satanas Recorded through the ages by many different sources – peoples – cultures and religions
King Solomon – from his time and culture called them shedim Enoch – from his time and culture called them WATCHERS Within the Tanak - they have names like Baal, Molech, Dogon, Chermush, Ashtoreth, Ishtar - TAMMUZ The authors of the agl/NT and the Nag Hammadi (same time same culture) called them archon KJV – called them principalities Islam – Islam calls them Jinn Christianity – calls them demons and satanas The Japanese - call them shades The Greeks - called them gods – Zeus, Apollo, Dianna, Athena, etc The Romans - called them Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, and Pluto, etc The American Indians – called them Kachinas The Papavu – called then aliens gods Jacques valley – calls them intra-dimensional visitors Sumar - called them annauki WWII – American / German / and Japanese pilots called them FOO FIGHTERS
Does not matter what name you call them – the reality of the Archon is 100% real and all around us!
“Just outside our field of vision – are entities that are anything but human – that have been manipulating this world form the outside for eons – some people call them demonic, some call them the serpent race, Islam calls them the Jinn” – David Ike
They are behind the Omega Conspiracy – behind all conspiracies They are the Illuminati, Free Masons, Bilderberg’s, shadow governments
The authors of the agl/NT and the Nag Hammadi (same time same culture) called them archon
But it is all the same BEAST of revelation – that ancient serpent race – that we call devils and demons
THE REALITY OF THE ARCHON!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2022 15:58:54 GMT -5
RP"R " But you said yester ra is not evil? OK what is it than? Inclination to do evil?D" I thought you said it was the word ‘aven’R" No Dave, aven are just propensities, epi-genetics Sinful habits, we do over and over, pet sinnings we do. Such sinning still have to cross the boundaries of "reasoning" to do these pet habits engrained in us. RP" What's the difference Dave?D" I could tell you – and have told you – but it is a 3000 year old basic Jewish teaching – so you must reject it – won’t study it – refuse to understand it – just so you can keep asking these question from ignoranceR" So if you don't like telling me, provide a link instead and let somebody tell me, the whole yester ra thing is made up on the basis of not a single verse, but pulling ideas out of sentences in Scripture, even making up ideas of the letters of Hebrew even, the two Yuds for instance. And since Hebrew is mostly poetry one can invent mystic imaginations from similes we think we see in the poetry. RP" Is this a word game you play?D" NOPE - it is a 3000 year old basic Jewish teachingR" SO because the Jews record their "mystic imaginations from similes we think we see in the poetry Hebrew torah" that makes the "mystic imaginations from similes we think we see in the poetry Hebrew torah" totally valid and inspired even? I don't think so. I have asked you many times but you always refuse. I would love to have you tested in poetry, so I can see how difficult and fun poetry is. I wrote this aged 17 " Love is a river, a dam fed you some, Clear was it's water, traditionally done." Please write down all the similes you find in these two lines of poetry. You think like a Jew, so this should be interesting. It will provide insights into how poetry should be read. Not all people read poetry the same, and that is part of the fun of reading poetry. I see at least 8 poetry similes in the poem so far. Can you write them down for me please? ------------------------------------------------- D" Does not matter what name you call them – the reality of the Archon is 100% real and all around us!R" Show me how you get from SHAD to archon? I showed you how SHAD is Devil. both of these terms are functional descriptors of a creature, not describing who the creature is, only what the creature does. D" They are behind the Omega Conspiracy – behind all conspiracies They are the Illuminati, Free Masons, Bilderberg’s, shadow governmentsR" Yes they are, true. I agree with you D" But it is all the same BEAST of revelation – that ancient serpent race – that we call devils and demonsR" yes. Lu 11:15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils. Here the Greek "devils" is make compared to "archons" Joh 3:1 ¶ There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: Here is the same term "archon" Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. Here archon, is translated "prince" SO the correct term for "archon" is "prince" the Hebrew word is "sar" Nicodemus, is a "prince" , not some Archon as Dave makes is a new name for some breed of devils. The word just means "prince". SOme of these "princes" are also functioning like "devils" THE REALITY of the PRINCES of HEAVEN that fell from SINNING, becoming fallen angels on earth Deceiving many with their sins. Even the very elect.
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Post by Dave on Aug 13, 2022 6:08:32 GMT -5
RP"R" But you said yester ra is not evil? OK what is it than? Inclination to do evil? D" I thought you said it was the word ‘aven’ R" No Dave, aven are just propensities, epi-genetics Sinful habits, we do over and over, pet sinnings we do. Such sinning still have to cross the boundaries of "reasoning" to do these pet habits engrained in us. What are you trying to say – ‘aven’ is NOT the root of wickedness and evil Have you changed your mind?RP" What's the difference Dave? D" I could tell you – and have told you – R" So if you don't like telling me, provide a link I have tried - No point me doing the homework study for you, because no verses exist. I have told you – and told you – offered link to study material – obviously you took all that seriouslyWhat about the THREAD called - (yester ra) - YEẒER HA-RA'ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/575/yester-ra-ye-er-haYou post 10 comments to that thread – do you remember – obviously NOT "yester ha ra" is the inclination to think of evil and end up doing evil. This is exactly what "Aven" is , the epi-genetic potential to do evil. In my view, there are over 70 verses that use "Aven", it's also found in the NT too. But alas your phrase does not exist in Hebrew as a word, that you can study easily.{/quote] D" I thought you said it was the word ‘aven’ R" No Dave, aven are just propensities, epi-genetics D" YEẒER HA-RA': (Redirected from LUST.) By: Executive Committee of the Editorial Board., Joseph Jacobs Table of Contents Characteristics. Personification. The Law the Antidote. Rise of the Idea. Evil inclination or impulse, popularly identified with the lusts of the flesh. The idea is derived from Gen. viii. 21: "the imagination of the heart of man is evil from his youth." Yet from the use of the two "yods" in Gen. ii. 7, the Rabbis deduced that there are in man two Yeẓarim: the good (Yeẓer Ṭob) and the evil (Ber. 61a). Cain defended himself before God for having slain Abel by arguing that God had implanted in him the Yeẓer ha-Ra'(Tan., Bereshit, 25 [ed. Buber, p. 10]). "It lies at the door of the heart like a fly" (Ber. 61a; comp. Beelzebub). R" Talk about word games. and word letters, how does two yods suggest a doctrine? Correct – your claim that the Jews do not know and understand their own language – scripture - theology - demonology – or culture RP"R" But you said yester ra is not evil? OK what is it than? Inclination to do evil? D" I thought you said it was the word ‘aven’ R" No Dave, aven are just propensities, epi-genetics Sinful habits, we do over and over, pet sinnings we do.That is what "Aven" means, changing our "genetic potential" Do you agree with this idea? Out of the one side of your mouth you preach God does not change Now you go back to your satan changing God’s creation
D"No one denies that (yester ra) leads to aven R" That's why I show you a better Hebrew study than your Jewish invented one, which by the way does not have a single Hebrew verse to the idea.If there are any verses on "yester ha ra" I would love to see them, but as I understand NONE exist.I would rather study Hebrew words, not Jewish inventions of phrases that do not come from Hebrew words, but from the precepts of men.INCORRECT – first you want to rewrite scripture to fit your doctrine – then you can argue the a different word First I have to do your homework for you – then you did not bother to read any of it You have proven yourself to be so academically serious ------------------------------------------------- D"Does not matter what name you call them – the reality of the Archon is 100% real and all around us!R" Show me how you get from SHAD to archon? Jewish demons and devils = Christian demons and devils = Islamic demons and devils = all the world's demons and devils - because there is only one theologyJoh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. Here archon, is translated "prince" SO the correct term for "archon" is "prince" the Hebrew word is "sar" OK - just a word game – names do not matter – all the same entitiesTHE REALITY of the PRINCES of HEAVEN that fell from SINNING, becoming fallen angels You say this – but have ZERO verse to support your Catholic satan Please give me your verse that proves your satan opposes God Still waiting =- all you offer is your doctrine and just repeat Ezk 28 like a parrot
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