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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2022 6:06:20 GMT -5
D"East Answer – CONTEXT All of your arguments against CONTEXT is error R" so your'e saying its OK for KJV translators to "ADD" words to the text, where no word is there, to make the English read, and to make it read OK for readers.
I find this kind of thing, unfair, disrespectful and makes a mockery of the holy Scriptures.
Question" In all the contexts using 'kathistemi which only means "established"', what is being established?
Mat 24:47 , a ruler Mt 25:21 , a ruler Act 6:3 , HS established as a ruler over you Act 17:15 , rulers conducting Paul to prison Rom 5:19 one sinner establishes the ruler over sinners? Just as one righteous man established the ruler over the straight?
Are there any contexts where a ruler is not established?
according to your view?
D"Do you deny you tried your best to prove that Eph 6:12 was not about archon Archie only means beginning was your argument Do you deny this? R" If the archon means prince, than in the OT we have this insight into the "prince of the world" opposing directly GOD, as a opposing elohiym power.
Are you ready for this?
Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
An angel speaks of the prince of the world fighting against him, and the heavenly host for 21 days, until Michael the chief prince came to help the angels in war with the prince of the world. The same war in heaven over the prince of the world and Michael still rages on the earth. This is the same prince of the world, that Michael the prince came to overthrow when he came as Yashua the Saviour in human flesh.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 3, 2022 6:42:24 GMT -5
D"East Answer – CONTEXT All of your arguments against CONTEXT is error R" so your'e saying its OK for KJV translators to "ADD" words to the text, where no word is there, to make the English read, and to make it read OK for readers. I find this kind of thing, unfair, disrespectful and makes a mockery of the holy Scriptures. Your sola scriptorium is filled with them In your KJV they are in italics - learn to translate
D"Do you deny you tried your best to prove that Eph 6:12 was not about archon Archie only means beginning was your argument Do you deny this? What – no answer – Mr Honest
Da 10:13 – The Prince od Persia Proof that this is not Beast himself – just an archon with a specific area of responsibility
The same war in Sorry – takes place invisible on earth – not in heaven in front of God
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2022 16:21:52 GMT -5
D"Your sola scriptorium is filled with them In your KJV they are in italics - learn to translate R" The ones in italics is made known to readers, it's the ones NOT made known that is disrespectful.
Mt 24:47 Verily <amen> I say <lego> unto you <humin>, That <hoti> he shall make <kathistemi> him <autos> ruler <kathistemi> over <epi> all <pas> his <autos> goods <huparchonta>. (KJV)
47 amhn legw umin oti epi pasin toiV uparcousin autou katasthsei auton (TR)
I reckon I could get a better software, it keep making mistakes, repeating <kathistemi> twice for example.
The KJV does NOT write "ruler" in italics, so is deceiving readers. It should read
"I support what I say unto you, that he established him over all his goods."
And this one should read
"Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were established (as) sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many (are) established (as) righteous. "(Rob)
Dave you didn't tell me what the Hebrew word of this Greek word is, and a OT verse using this word please? -----------------------------
D"Proof that this is not Beast himself – just an archon with a specific area of responsibility R" Under the command of the chief prince of the world, is this not correct, who in turn rules over the Persian King?
D"Sorry – takes place invisible on earth – not in heaven in front of God R" It's still a war is it not, invisibly on the earth, against Michael the prince and his angels of heaven? DO you agree with me?
If you say yes, you are admitting the prince of the world is opposing heavenly host directly, and thus opposing the heavenly Father.
SO you will say no, to allow your Gnostic religion to prevail.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 3, 2022 23:54:15 GMT -5
D"Your sola scriptorium is filled with them it's the ones NOT made known that is disrespectful. Mat 24:47 (YLT) verily I say to you, that over all his substance he will set him. The KJV does NOT write "ruler" in italics, so is deceiving readers. It should read = "I support what I say unto you, that he established him over all his goods."Please learn to translate Greek - I say unto you, - over his stuff – he will (future tense) set himRobert – I say to you – he established him (past tense) The KJV does NOT write "ruler" in italics, so is deceiving readers.OK Robert – you are the translater and I am the lay person – what does ‘he will set him’ mean?And this one should read"Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were established (as) sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many (are) established (as) righteous. "(Rob) Rom 5:19 (YLT) for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous. Dave you didn't tell me what the Hebrew word of this Greek word is, and a OT verse using this word please?G3876 – παρακοή - disobedience. LXX zero verses found Rom 5:12 - G266 - ἁμαρτία - sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful). LXX 368 matches in 404 verses GO FISH ----------------------------- R" It's still a war is it not, invisibly on the earth, against Michael the prince and his angels of heaven? DO you agree with me? Dan 10:12 “Then he said to me, ‘Don’t be afraid, Daniel! For from the first day that you set your heart to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard. I have come because of your words. Dan 10:13 However, the prince of the kingdom of Persia resisted me for 21 days, but behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me because I had been detained there with the kings of Persia. Dan 10:14 Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future days. For the vision concerns days yet to come.’ Daniel prayed – the archon resisted the answer to Daniel’s prayerYES – absolutely – not just one archon – but archons (plural) – the PRINCE and the KINGS YES – Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. YES – 100% a spiritual battel If you say yes, you are admitting the prince of the world is opposing heavenly host directly, and thus opposing the heavenly Father.Was this price opposing God directly – answer the questionBecause the answer is NOThere are invisible archon – all the time – everywhere – and one can be assigned specifically to you There are invisible angels – guardian angels – and one can be assigned specifically to you YES – Absolutely – I am a spirit believer and therefore recognize the spiritual battel100% Nag Hammadi teaching You do not understand – because you have no spiritual reality for man "Just outside our field of vision - are entities that are anything but human - that have been manipulating our world from the outside for eons." - "some people call them demonic, some people call them the serpent race - islam calls them Jinn" - David IkeThe disciples of Jesus called them archon - Davewww.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/guardian-angels-in-the-bible/20 Verses about Guardian Angels in the BibleGuardians Angels are divine agents of God sent to protect and aid humans on earth in times of need. They are mentioned throughout the Bible, coming to the support of God's people. Guardian Angels helping man – also scripture 2Ki 6:17 Then Elisha prayed and said, “Adonai, please open his eyes that he may see.” Then Adonai opened the eyes of the young man and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. SO you will say no, to allow your Gnostic religion to prevail.It is a Daniel’s guardian angel – vrs – his local archon – who is opposing Daniel Just more of the CONTEST – just on an invisible level Without Daniel’s guardian angel – Daniel’s prayer would have gone unanswered God LIMITS the chaos – a volunteer stood up the reign in the chaos Prove to me that this sar / prince of Persian is face to face opposing the Creator
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2022 14:14:51 GMT -5
D" OK Robert – you are the translater and I am the lay person – what does ‘he will set him’ mean?R" If your going to tell me "rule" than we have the idea that "Establish" is always entertained with the idea of "ruling"? Is this idea correct? And what is the Hebrew word for "establish"? ------------------------------------------ D" G3876 – παρακοή - disobedience. LXX zero verses found
Rom 5:12 - G266 - ἁμαρτία - sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful). LXX 368 matches in 404 verses GO FISHR" OH, is it possible the Jews have forgotten the meaning of why there is chata and also chataah in their Hebrew torah? Can you do formalism for hundreds of years, you forget what is the reason for doing it? ------------------------------------------ D" Daniel prayed – the archon resisted the answer to Daniel’s prayer YES – absolutely – not just one archon – but archons (plural) – the PRINCE and the KINGS YES – Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. YES – 100% a spiritual battelR" OH archons plural, but we have one archon as a "prince", the chief archon, is this correct? D" Was this prince opposing God directly – answer the question Because the answer is NOR" OH.... are you saying this to cling to GNostic writings? Please discuss my discussion, not be stubborn... I don't mind your decision to support GNostic views, your choice, but surely you can discuss my discussion, if the logic is wrong I want to know, if the logic is right I want to know as well. OK? Was Daniel was told about a prince of heaven having to come down ad help the angels with fighting over the archons on earth? Y/N And thus the prince of heaven, is still fighting a war, invisible to us, yes; on earth with the prince of the world over the King of Persia? Y/N? D" There are invisible archon – all the time – everywhere – and one can be assigned specifically to youR" Yes correct But I want to know did the prince of heaven come down to earth to fight against the prince of the world, to help angels struggling with the prince of the world, who was badly influencing the King of Persia. Y/N? DO you agree? D" YES – Absolutely – I am a spirit believer and therefore recognize the spiritual battelR" Nice, avoiding the question But I want to know did the prince of heaven come down to earth to fight against the prince of the world, to help angels struggling with the prince of the world, who was badly influencing the King of Persia. Y/N? D" Just outside our field of vision - are entities that are anything but human - that have been manipulating our world from the outside for eons." - "some people call them demonic, some people call them the serpent race - islam calls them Jinn" - David Ike The disciples of Jesus called them archon - DaveR" nice quotes But I want you to discuss this verse in Daniel 10 But I want to know did the prince of heaven come down to earth to fight against the prince of the world, to help angels struggling with the prince of the world, who was badly influencing the King of Persia. Y/N? Simple question please answer it simply. D" Guardian Angels helping man – also scriptureR" You are changing word meanings.... "prince of heaven" in Daniel 10 is not a cherub Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Michael the prince, is an archangel, whatever that meaning is, but is not written as a cherub, anywhere in Scripture. But I want to know did the prince of heaven come down to earth to fight against the prince of the world, to help angels struggling with the prince of the world, who was badly influencing the King of Persia. Y/N? D" It is a Daniel’s guardian angel – vrs – his local archon – who is opposing Daniel Just more of the CONTEST – just on an invisible levelR" I love the way you quibble Scripture away.... A "prince called Michael" is no cherub, nor a local cherub of Daniel, please tell where in the verse is this idea coming from? D" Prove to me that this sar / prince of Persian is face to face opposing the CreatorR" Avoiding the theme, switch directions, JW do this all the time when they get cornered... Line upon line remember.... Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: The dragon gives power to the Persian King. Do you agree that idea? Rev 13:4 says so...Do you agree? Michael the prince was again in war over the Dragon who is also prince of the earth, the Persian King is just another beast power under the prince of the world. Can you see this coming from this verse? Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; Here is another line upon line, to help you. Do you agree that Michael the prince is fighting yet again the Dragon prince on earth over the King of Persia? How do you know this? Because the King of Persia does both functional and dysfunctional things, the King is therefore lukewarm following two masters, the Prince of Heaven and the Prince of the Earth. Michael is fighting over the Dragon, in order to save the Persian King and allow goodness to flow over His Kingdom. SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 4, 2022 16:25:00 GMT -5
D"OK Robert – you are the translator and I am the lay person – what does ‘he will set him’ mean? R" If your going to tell me "rule" than we have the idea that "Establish" is always entertained with the idea of "ruling"? Is this idea correct? And what is the Hebrew word for "establish"? Are you admitting that if you were the translator – you would add the word rule to complete the context?Many other translator did notMat 24:47 (YLT) verily I say to you, that over all his substance he will set him. Matthew 24:47 (CEB) I assure you that he will put them in charge of all his Matthew 24:47 (CEBA) I assure you that he will put them in charge of all his possessions. Matthew 24:47 (GW) I can guarantee this truth: He will put that servant in charge of all his property. Matthew 24:47 (GNT) Indeed, I tell you, the master will put that servant in charge of all his property. Matthew 24:47 (ESV) Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. ------------------------------------------ D" G3876 – παρακοή - disobedience. LXX zero verses found Rom 5:12 - G266 - ἁμαρτία - sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful). LXX 368 matches in 404 verses GO FISH R" OH, is it possible the Jews have forgotten the meaning of why there is chata and also chataah in their Hebrew torah? Can you do formalism for hundreds of years, you forget what is the reason for doing it? OH is it possible you are capable of doing your own research ------------------------------------------ D"Daniel prayed – the archon resisted the answer to Daniel’s prayer YES – absolutely – not just one archon – but archons (plural) – the PRINCE and the KINGS YES – Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. YES – 100% a spiritual battel R" OH archons plural, but we have one archon as a "prince", the chief archon, is this correct? D"Was this prince opposing God directly – answer the question Because the answer is NO R" OH.... are you saying this to cling to GNostic writings? But I want you to discuss this verse in Daniel 10 Simple question please answer it simply. 7 10 THE TRHONE OF GOD - Omega 6 9 5 8 4 7 3 6 2 5 1 4 The first heaven – home of the principalities / archon 3 Image of God - 3D reality – our physical reality 2 Omnipresent - HS 1 A Omnipotent Singularity - Alpha |
Judaism is multidimensional God is way up in the 7th heaven on His ThroneMan and archon are way down at the bottom – in the lower worlds Our 3D physical reality and the unseen realm all around us The conflict in Dan 10 – did not happen way up in heave as an affront to God on His Throne It took place down in the realm of man and archon / Principalities But I want to know did the prince of heaven come down to earth to fight against the prince of the world, to help angels struggling with the prince of the world, who was badly influencing the King of Persia. Y/N?D"Guardian Angels helping man – also scripture R" You are changing word meanings.... NOPE – angels can come in response to prayer to help man – absolutely believeD"Prove to me that this sar / prince of Persian is face to face opposing the Creator R" Avoiding the themeIT IS YOUR THEME – YOUIR TEACHING – your satan opposes GodRe 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: The dragon gives power to the Persian King. Do you agree that idea? Rev 13:4 says so...Do you agree? SURE – and the Beast probably gave power to Caesar – or Allah – or Hitler – NONE OF THEM ARE REAL GODS
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2022 6:11:03 GMT -5
D"Mat 24:47 (YLT) verily I say to you, that over all his substance he will set him. Matthew 24:47 (CEB) I assure you that he will put them in charge of all his Matthew 24:47 (CEBA) I assure you that he will put them in charge of all his possessions. Matthew 24:47 (GW) I can guarantee this truth: He will put that servant in charge of all his property. Matthew 24:47 (GNT) Indeed, I tell you, the master will put that servant in charge of all his property. Matthew 24:47 (ESV) Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. R" Pedantic ..."put in charge of" is the Greek details way of saying "a ruler who rules" of the master's possessions.
Both saying the same thing more or less.
So now you are agreeing with my child like translation first, long ago when I said kathestimi means "to establish a ruler who rules" this is a simple broad basic idea. And fits every verse it's used in the Bible. ------------------------
D"SURE – and the Beast probably gave power to Caesar – or Allah – or Hitler – NONE OF THEM ARE REAL GODS R" So you agree the archons are real gods opposing man, setting up man as false gods, and false idols of worship.
But the archons are ALSO real opposing powers of the Father .
How can I say this clearly?
Because Jesus comes to judge the archons and throw them into the Lake of Fire.
Therefore the Father did not create archons intentionally without will free and with yester ra. Otherwise the Father would approve of their tempting of man.
But the Father does not approve, because the archon is judged by GOD for wrong doings. This says to me the archons have free will and therefore sin willfully to oppose the Father in heaven and also on earth, by refusing to repent, and getting other humans to sin with them. Your Gnostic theories are shot to pieces.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 5, 2022 7:39:09 GMT -5
R" Pedantic ..."put in charge of" is the Greek details way of saying "a ruler who rules" of the master's possessions.
So now you are agreeing with my child like translation first, long ago when I said kathestimi means "to establish a ruler who rules" this is a simple broad basic idea. And fits every verse it's used in the Bible.
NO – I do not You are trying to make words mean things they do no mean Robert's method - change the words into something that supports Ellen White
2Pe 1:8 for these things being to you and abounding, do make you neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ, 2Pe 1:8 For if these qualities are in you and increasing, they keep you from becoming idle and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah.
Jas 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! have ye not known that friendship of the world is enmity with God? whoever, then, may counsel to be a friend of the world, an enemy of God he is set. Jas 4:4 You adulteresses! Don’t you know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
Rom 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man, many will be set right forever. Rom 5:19 for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.
Act 17:15 Those escorting Paul brought him as far as Athens. After receiving an order for Silas and Timothy to come to him as soon as possible, they left. Act 17:15 And those conducting Paul, brought him unto Athens, and having received a command unto Silas and Timotheus that with all speed they may come unto him, they departed; ------------------------
D"SURE – and the Beast probably gave power to Caesar – or Allah – or Hitler – NONE OF THEM ARE REAL GODS R" So you agree the archons are real gods opposing man, setting up man as false gods, and false idols of worship. I just said NONE OF THEM ARE REAL GODS – Caesar is not a god – not even close – he is just a delusional creature of biology
But the archons are ALSO real opposing powers of the Father . How can I say this clearly? Because Jesus comes to judge the archons
God judges all men – does this mean all men are evil and cast to the lake of fire Joshua was judged – Moses was judged – Abraham was judged – you claim they are all evil and hell bound
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2022 15:23:59 GMT -5
Dave quotes verses WITHOUT discussions" 2Pe 1:8 for these things being to you and abounding, do make you neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ,
2Pe 1:8 For if these qualities are in you and increasing, they keep you from becoming idle and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah.
Rob is happy to post discussions: ....
Peter is saying when you sow prayer promises for love, joy, peace, self control, etc, these things being in you and increasing (your flow of love from God) (GOD rules you) from becoming idle and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah
R" Make much more sense than "keep" or "make", my translations tells you "who establishes you", because "Established to rule" is the context of the word meaning here, is left out of the translations.
(Notice Rob's posts always come with discussions)
This ruling of GOD over you is voluntary, because you choose to have GOD established to RULE over you, (via faith) with his promises of flow as Peter outlines.
DO you agree with this idea of mine, and why I place what is established?
Jas 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! have ye not known that friendship of the world is enmity with God? whoever, then, may counsel to be a friend of the world, an enemy of God he is set.
Jas 4:4 You adulteresses! Don’t you know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
R" No discussion from Dave, Kathestimi has various English meanings, like "make, set, keep" from Dave already?
"Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world "is established as a ruling" enemy of God".
Again my translation includes the consistent term "establish and the application idea established to rule"
Rom 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of one man, many will be set right forever.
Rom 5:19 for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.
R" SO Dave now has various English terms for his "kathestimi"
"set, made, keep and now constituted"
Well done Dave, you are a firm believer in polysemy.
Rob is NOT.
Rom 5:19 for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many "are established to rule as" sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be are established to rule as" righteous.
R" Again my translation includes the consistent term "establish and the application idea established to rule"
Act 17:15 Those escorting Paul brought him as far as Athens. After receiving an order for Silas and Timothy to come to him as soon as possible, they left.
Act 17:15 And those conducting Paul, brought him unto Athens, and having received a command unto Silas and Timotheus that with all speed they may come unto him, they departed;
R" Again Dave, does not try to correct the polysemy of kathestimi, but happily quotes the verses with many English meanings.
This confirms to me you are a secular translator like all the worldly ones are,
NOT like Jeff Benner and myself at all,
we do not support the idea of words having polysemy, and we find polysemy is uncommon in all languages. Dave you examples are NOT consistent, every one of them is different. "Act 17:15 Those "established to rule" Paul brought him as far as Athens. Rob" My English meanings are consistent and they make sense for all the contexts.
Now if you wish to discuss, write your discussions near my discussions, not mock as you do? DO you have any idea what a debate using discussions is about?
First you need to address why you assume Hebrew has polysemy, and thus gives you the right to translate many English words for the one Greek/Hebrew word.
Still waiting what is the Hebrew word, for kathistimi?
D"God judges all men – does this mean all men are evil and cast to the lake of fire Joshua was judged – Moses was judged – Abraham was judged – you claim they are all evil and hell bound R" Notice Dave, I now discuss your discussion, OK?
"God judges all men" Yes, why? Because all men sin and fall short of the glory of God.
Stop being so dull, can't you see a difference between humans and your archons? Archons according to your Gnostic theory, do not morally sin, as they have no free will, yet they do ra (and thus evil, which humans see as sinning).
The Father approves of the design of the yester ra in these creatures, because He created them that way. Therefore the archons cannot morally sin. SO why does the Father JUDGE them of doing wrong and worse, thrown them into the Lake of Fire.
By the way Humans who do RA and thus morally sin, that is not forgiven of, are by definition thrown into the Lake of Fire and thus they cease to exist. Any human who chooses RA and SIN are automatically ceasing to exist after they are judged, yes.
God cannot stand RA and SIN, these thing do not exist with GOD, they do not exist in his matter either. Your Gnostic theories are false.
Now stop making a comparison, of humans with archons. One has free will, the other has not. Your view remember?
Now please tell me for the fifth time why is the Father judging a robotic creature who was designed with yester ra, for doing something wrong? I thought the Father approved of the creatures He created? Your Gnostic theory is shot to pieces.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 6, 2022 0:32:34 GMT -5
Dave quotes verses WITHOUT discussions" 2Pe 1:8 for these things being to you and abounding, do make you neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ, Discussion – No one is made a ruler here
Jas 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! have ye not known that friendship of the world is enmity with God? whoever, then, may counsel to be a friend of the world, an enemy of God he is set. Discussion – no one is made a ruler here
R" SO Dave now has various English terms for his "kathestimi" G2525 – καθίστημι - From G2596 and G2476; to place down (permanently), that is, (figuratively) to designate, constitute, convoy: - appoint, be, conduct, make, ordain, set. Well done Dave, you are a firm believer in polysemy. Rob is NOT. – except for word that means the opposite - or words used in poetry -
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2022 3:36:03 GMT -5
Rob notices Dave does not read my posts
Dave" 2Pe 1:8 for these things being to you and abounding, do make "kathestimi" you neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ, D" Discussion – No one is made a ruler here
Rob replies" Peter is saying when you sow prayer promises for love, joy, peace, self control, etc, these things being in you and increasing (your flow of love from God) (GOD rules you) from becoming idle and unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah.
2Pe 1:8 for these things being to you and abounding, does GOD "rule" you (so you are ) neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Discuss why this context is NOT implied Dave?
D"Jas 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! have ye not known that friendship of the world is enmity with God? whoever, then, may counsel to be a friend of the world, an enemy of God he is set. Discussion – no one is made a ruler here "R" "Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world "is established as a ruling" enemy of God".
Please explain why when you become a friend of the world, and thus are influenced by the yester ra creatures, that you are not ruled by them, and thus become an enemy of God?
D"Rob is NOT. – except for word that means the opposite - or words used in poetry R" Dave in the beginning God gave Adam the Edenic version of Hebrew, and being a language of picture words, in a sinless world, there were no bad meanings and evil picture meanings for those words, where there? no
So this does not make Edenic Hebrew polysemous.
However when Adam sinned, the context of the positive nature of Edenic Hebrew changed and thus over time, the negative meaning of the words was intended, if the context was in a negative manner.
So barak, meaning always and only "bless" can be used as an opposite meaning, for a world of sin, thus can also mean "curse".
I do not see Edenic Hebrew as polysemous, but like any language subject to sinning, the opposite meanings came to be, so one could picture RA things and evil natures of things. Just my two pennies on the origin and changes of the Edenic Hebrew God gave to Adam.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 6, 2022 9:25:33 GMT -5
Dave" 2Pe 1:8 for these things being to you and abounding, do make "kathestimi" you neither inert nor unfruitful in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ, D" Discussion – No one is made a ruler here Rob replies" Peter is saying when you sow prayer promises for love, joy, peace, self control, etc, these things being in you and increasing (your flow of love from God) (GOD rules you) Nonsense – 2 Pet 1:8 = you can be made fruitful or unfruitful – no one is ruling anyone else here
D"Jas 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! have ye not known that friendship of the world is enmity with God? whoever, then, may counsel to be a friend of the world, an enemy of God he is set. Discussion – no one is made a ruler here "R" "Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world "is established as a ruling" enemy of God". "Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world "is made / established / ordained enemy of God
I do not see Edenic Hebrew as polysemous, but like any language subject to sinning, the opposite meanings came to be, so one could picture RA things and evil natures of things.
H430 - 'ĕlôhı̂ym – NAS Word Usage - Total: 2604 divine 1, divine being 1, exceedingly 1, God 2326, god 45, God's 14, goddess 2, godly 1, gods 204, great 2, judges 3, mighty 2, rulers 1, shrine* 1
Robert’s understanding Elohiym – positive means = GOD the CREATOR Elohiym – opposite meaning – why do magistrates oppose God ando RA– why do angels oppose God and do RA– why do the godly oppose God and do RA– why do the great oppose God and do RA– why do Judges oppose God and do RA– why do the mighty oppose God – why do the Rulers oppose God
Gen 42:6 Now Joseph was the ruler over the land. Why does Joseph oppose God and do RA
Samson was the last of the judges of the ancient Israelites Why does Samson oppose God and do RA
Israel had Judges for 400 years appointed by God Why did God appoint opposites to lead Israel and do RA
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2022 16:48:49 GMT -5
Greetings Dave D" Nonsense – 2 Pet 1:8 = you can be made fruitful or unfruitful – no one is ruling anyone else here R" So you do not understand what amanuah means?
Peter is saying when you sow prayer promises for love, joy, peace, self control, etc, these things being in you and increasing (your flow of love from God) (GOD rules you)
When I choose to sow a prayer promise, I allow GOD to flow that love power over me, into me, than I am allowing GOD to rule over me.... that is what amanuah means....
When Aaron and Hur were holding up the arms of Moses firmly, which is what Amanuah in Exodus 17:12 means, the flow of GOD continued into every soldier until they wiped out every enemy of GOD.
The flow is voluntary, the ruling is voluntary....
Why is this nonsense to you?
D""Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world "is made / established / ordained enemy of God R" OH so the archons do not daily influence you to continually choose the world, so there is no ruling of the archons into the humans to continually choose their religion? What? TV, fake news, media programming, come on Dave.
Why even the food we eat comes from poisons the archons want into it.... so dull down the human mind.
D"Robert’s understanding Elohiym – positive means = GOD the CREATOR Elohiym – opposite meaning – why do magistrates oppose God ando RA– why do angels oppose God and do RA– why do the godly oppose God and do RA– why do the great oppose God and do RA– why do Judges oppose God and do RA– why do the mighty oppose God – why do the Rulers oppose God R" elohiym "Hebrew positive meaning " A strong authority who does only TOV all the time"
elohiym "Hebrew negative meaning " A strong authority who mixes RA and TOV all the time"
Earthly judges are supposed to judge TOV from cases brought to them.
some angels choose to do RA along with Tov, its free will
Others oppose God because of free will.
D"Gen 42:6 Now Joseph was the ruler over the land. Why does Joseph oppose God and do RA R" I don't get you? Being a ruler does not mean you are opposing God? There are different levels of ruling, Joseph is a steward under God, God rules, Pharaoh rules under God, Joseph rules under Pharaoh and under God?
By the way in my view, the sinning angels do not rule under God, they are ruling "above" God. I shall be like the Most High. (As much as they can technically rule - nobody can technically rule above God because the medium is an administrator of our world of tov and ra all the time)
D"Israel had Judges for 400 years appointed by God Why did God appoint opposites to lead Israel and do RA R" a chain of command.
Why do you see them as opposites? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 7, 2022 12:17:22 GMT -5
D" Nonsense – 2 Pet 1:8 = you can be made fruitful or unfruitful – no one is ruling anyone else here R" So you do not understand what amanuah means? amanuah is an action word – it means to go forth and Jer 1:5
When Aaron and Hur were holding up the arms of Moses firmly, which is what Amanuah in Exodus 17:12 means, the flow of GOD continued into every soldier until they wiped out every enemy of GOD. The flow is voluntary, the ruling is voluntary.... When will you stop presenting contradictory doctrines and then try to defend each view
You are not serious – you do not present a consistent doctrine So serious – so academic --------------
D""Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world "is made / established / ordained enemy of God R" OH so the archons do not daily influence you to continually choose the world, so there is no ruling of the archons into the humans to continually choose their religion? Who rules you? – Are you not responsible for your own choices? Why do need another to blame your sin upon – it is satan’s fault he was ruling me
D"Robert’s understanding Elohiym – positive means = GOD the CREATOR Elohiym – opposite meaning – why do magistrates oppose God ando RA– why do angels oppose God and do RA– why do the godly oppose God and do RA– why do the great oppose God and do RA– why do Judges oppose God and do RA– why do the mighty oppose God – why do the Rulers oppose God R" elohiym "Hebrew positive meaning " A strong authority who does only TOV all the time" OH – you mean there are different levels of strong authority God or gods – some are kings – magistrates – judges – commanders – teachers – parents – spouce To everyone else on the planet – this is POLYSEMY Some of these POLYSEMIONUS meanings are positive and some are negative
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2022 16:56:22 GMT -5
D"You are not serious – you do not present a consistent doctrine So serious – so academic R" If you were serious you would discuss my discussions, but you don't.
D"amanuah is an action word – it means to go forth and Jer 1:5 "R what is discussion about that? Nothing. It's a Dave monologue.
D"what is this 10 Commandment crap that God must obey A Dave monologue question, nobody understands.
D"Why do you deny scripture – I thought you teach the Tanak is the truth
R" A Dave monologue response, nobody understands.
Question" Are we supposed to KNOW all the answers in the tanak Dave? Y?N?
D"Who rules you? – Are you not responsible for your own choices? R" How can I have free will if my spark TOV mind has to be constantly harassed with the biological RA mind?
Who rules my spark TOV mind? The biological RA mind does that GOD placed my spark TOV mind into too.
How is this free will? Is it NOT a constant tyranny?
And God is to blame for placing the tov mind into a ra mind of biology? Why does GOD further increase the harassment of the mind with creatures who also think RA? This is unfair, more tyranny influences
R" Why do we need another to blame your sin upon – it is GOD's fault GOD was designed me, to be harassed?
So Eve was correct, she blamed the creature, and Adam was correct, he blamed the woman, and the creature was correct, it blamed God for designing it.
I see from your Gnostic view, that GOD is not fair making a biological RA mind constantly harassing the tov spirit mind to do ra things. How is that free will with reasoning to choose?
Question" How come Eve and Adam did not do ra things naturally? No proof this idea? They had to be influenced by the yester ra creature? to do RA things?
Why didn't they do yester ra by themselves? Proof your Gnostic theory is false?
To add weight to this false idea, Jews say Adam and Eve did yester ra within one hour of being created... this adds to my theory, that naturally embedded yester ra did not exist, or it was so strong Adam sinned by himself? No he didn't He required a creature doing RA to make Adam do RA? Your theory is shot to pieces/
In my view it took over 33 years for the aram creature to wait for the right moment before getting the sinless mind to choose to sin, thus doing RA.
D"OH – you mean there are different levels of strong authority God or gods – some are kings – magistrates – judges – commanders – teachers – parents – spouce To everyone else on the planet – this is POLYSEMY R" SO now who is not serious, raise your game Dave. Since when is actions I do polysemy? Now do your self a favour and try to answer my questions above?
SHalom
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