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Post by Dave on Jul 29, 2022 14:52:57 GMT -5
RP" Do you also use the Epistle of Barnabus as well? Repeat - D"- I only use / include / consider the writings of James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas R" SO you do not consider Epistle of Barnabus as another Gnostic book worthy of inspiration and value? Truth – never spent time with it – should I – is it relevant? ---------------------
So some Gnostics books are nice, some Gnostic books are rejected, some messages are nice and some discarded. Sounds like your own canonizing process? Do others canonize this for you, or have you done this yourself?
It is the Jewish approach to literature – weight by author or source #1 Torah + #2 The Major Prophets + The Minor Prophets + the wisdom of their forefathers Example – every Jewish Rabbi may reference Enoch – never claims it is inspired canon Example – every one – The Torah Scholars, Pharisees, Jesu and His audience understood the identity of Beelzebub – come straight out of King Solomon Examples - there are 31 other BOOKS mentioned by name within scripture – some of them are quoted directly into the agl/NT
Many of these additional Library Book are found with the Dead Sea Scroll some called Jewish – some called Gnostic – The Book of Creation was always a Temple Scroll – dates way back From the Dead Sea Scrolls this same Book = Gnostic The Book of Enoch was a Temple Scroll - ~250BC – 2nd Temple Period From the Dead Sea Scrolls it is called Gnostic
No one knew anything about the Nag Hammadi Library – until it was discovered in 1945 I have spent 10 years with the writing of James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas All of them knew Jesus Christ up close and personal
Several of them – state very clearly – these were conversations with Christ after the resurrection
Act 1:3 To them He showed Himself to be alive after His suffering through many convincing proofs, appearing to them for forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God.
Nothing they say contradicts scripture Everything they say sound 100% Jewish because they are all Messianic Jews Their theology and demonology is Jewish
CONTEX of the agl/NT ------------------------------------
If the Gnostic torah is brought fresh into the world as the true torah of truth, what happened to the old torah of teachings Moses wrote and others added to?
Originally Messianic Judaism was Pentecostal and spirit centered Over time – faith has drifted into man-made religion church centered I call this the Roman Edit
No such thing as a Gnostic Torah additionional writings never replace - only suppliment
The Gnostic teach = Recognise what is in your sight! Everything witness to the One True Creator. Things only happened one way - God's Way
It must all fit together on one large jig-saw puzzel of reality - no eceptions
Evolution is a great example - Dawin harmed the faith Finally science has - Recognised the truth of Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 = Intelligent Design Now Biblical Creationist - are harming ther faith just a much as darwin ever has
The Gnostic teach = Recognise what is in your sight! God came to earth incanate - to teach us - and to die for us - so the resurrection could show us all - LIFE LIVES Once you recognise that - it is up to you to do somthing about Yom Kippur -----------------------
So you neglect to use Epistle of Barnabus ? Can I ask why not? Is it because the words are too weird? too way off? If I have ever read it – I have forgotten it – can’t even comment on it However – I did buy a copy of the Gospel of Judas I have never been able to read more than a few pages until I want to burn it at stake --------------------
I read that in book of Enoch too. It mentioned seasons, summer and winter. Before the flood summer and winter seasons never existed. SO these words was added after the flood, somebody pretending to write a book of Enoch.
Yes John wrote all about the end times – hasn’t happened yet – is it pretend? Enoch also wrote about the 2nd Coming of Christ – is it pretend Enoch is quoted 64 times within the agl/NT – is all that also error?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2022 18:37:04 GMT -5
D"Originally Messianic Judaism was Pentecostal and spirit centered Over time – faith has drifted into man-made religion church centered I call this the Roman Edit
R" explain what you mean, how has faith drifted?
What do you mean by spirit centered?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 29, 2022 23:54:34 GMT -5
R" explain what you mean, how has faith drifted? God chose Israel as His people Gave then the Torah and walk hand in hand with them for 40 years in the wilderness- to establish the Jewish culture – the Jewish personality
Christians teach Judaism as 633 Laws – all about ritual TRUTH – Judaism has always been a personal calling to communion one-on-one with God God spoke to many face to face – spirit to spirit Magical things happened over and over – axe heads floating on water – Red Sea parting – Wall tumbling – calling fire down from heaven – sitting in furnaces of fire – spending the night in a den of lions – holding up your hand to stop time – making time run backwards just to prove a point – one man with the jaw bone of an ass killed 20,000 warriors in battel – filled with the spirit – praying in the spirit Truth – Judaism has always been Pentecostal – The very term Pentecost come s from ‘Counting the Omer’
2Ki 6:14 Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about. 2Ki 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? 2Ki 6:16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. 2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. 2Ki 6:18 And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the LORD, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha. 2Ki 6:19 And Elisha said unto them, This is not the way, neither is this the city: follow me, and I will bring you to the man whom ye seek. But he led them to Samaria. 2Ki 6:20 And it came to pass, when they were come into Samaria, that Elisha said, LORD, open the eyes of these men, that they may see. And the LORD opened their eyes, and they saw; and, behold, they were in the midst of Samaria. 2Ki 6:21 And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite them? shall I smite them? 2Ki 6:22 And he answered, Thou shalt not smite them: wouldest thou smite those whom thou hast taken captive with thy sword and with thy bow? set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink, and go to their master. 2Ki 6:23 And he prepared great provision for them: and when they had eaten and drunk, he sent them away, and they went to their master. So the bands of Syria came no more into the land of Israel.
One man could not see - believer One man didn’t even have to look - spiritual An entire army relocated to their home – magically - miraculously Then Israel made a banquet for their own enemy – Christian behavior
Jesus Christ taught Pentecost – Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.
R" explain what you mean, how has faith drifted? Does this look like your church? Does it resemble Roman Catholicism?
Judaism has a complete theology + demonology before Jesus Christ Does this look like your church? Does it resemble Roman Catholicism?
What do you mean by spirit centered? As long as you deny the spirit – you will never understand
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2022 16:27:59 GMT -5
If your replies Dave, you don't present anything I already do not know , wonders are evidence of God with you...
I pray for God to allow me to write the right words to you, and often I get wonders that amaze me, www sources I didn't know existed....
But a wonder from me would never convince you...
You claim I do not know the spirit of Jesus....
James writes what faith drift means:-
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.
It's a person who asks a prayer promise, but doubts it will come good.
Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
It's also a person who is double minded....
Jas 1:13 GOD...neither tempteth he any man:
James says God never tempts man to sin, nor sending Uriel to allow the SHAD to tempt us to sin, that is also implying the same thing. A different department under God's control is the same as GOD doing it himself. You twist and raise weird stuff... God never uses temptations against us ever.
Testing is a different matter, The love is fruited sweeter under testing, not temptations to sin, but testing, endurance, trials. Plants make sweeter fruits under tribulations of cold or heat.
But since you say no sinner can sin a sin that opposes the Father, you will never understand.
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Post by Dave on Jul 30, 2022 22:00:04 GMT -5
If your replies Dave, you don't present anything I already do not know , Then why did you ask - R" explain what you mean, how has faith drifted?
You claim I do not know the spirit of Jesus.... Quote me Mr defensive You deny that man has a spirit You deny communion spirit to Spirit You deny the baptism of the Holy Spirit You deny that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God You deny that Christ poured out His Spirit at the cross and continued to exist – doing His mission in hades You deny that the spirit of man returns to God upon mortal death And you deny that man is a full part of the Heavenly Host
Jas 1:13 GOD...neither tempteth he any man: But God does test His people to see if they will keep His mitzvahs or mot
Testing is a different matter – Robert’s word game
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2022 6:27:31 GMT -5
D" Quote me Mr defensive You deny that man has a spirit You deny communion spirit to Spirit You deny the baptism of the Holy Spirit You deny that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God You deny that Christ poured out His Spirit at the cross and continued to exist – doing His mission in hades You deny that the spirit of man returns to God upon mortal death And you deny that man is a full part of the Heavenly Host
R" Man has a spirit, it is called nashamah.
You invent a term not in the Moses torah, Man has a "ruwach-spark" of his own, given by the Father, is false.
I do not deny spirit to spirit, the NT misses the Hebrew
Ro 8:16 The Ruwach itself beareth witness with our Nashamah, that we are the children of God:
Correct Hebrew torah
Not as your claim
Ro 8:16 The Ruwach itself beareth witness with our Ruwach-spark, that we are the children of God:
If you quote your view in your list of points, well of course I am different to your view DUH
D" But God does test His people to see if they will keep His mitzvahs or mot
Testing is a different matter – Robert’s word game
Ge 22:1 ¶ And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt "nacah" Abraham,
KJV reads the context wrong, it should read "test"
Ex 15:25 ...and there he proved them,
correct "test"
Ex 16:4 ... that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
correct "test"
Ps 78:18 And they tempted God in their heart by asking meat for their lust.
correct, the opposite meaning of nacah, meaning to "tempt"
I do not play word games, I am familiar with the Hebrew grammar rules of language
nacah only means "test" but in a negative context means the opposite "tempt"
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jul 31, 2022 11:47:16 GMT -5
I do not deny spirit to spirit, the NT misses the Hebrew SORRY ROBERT – the New Testament is not error – ABSOLUTE DISAGREEMENT
Testing is a different matter – Robert’s word game Ge 22:1 ¶ And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt "nacah" Abraham, KJV reads the context wrong, it should read "test" STOP TRYING TO REWRITE SCRPYURE TO FIT YOUR DOCTRINE
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2022 14:29:58 GMT -5
I apologize for your difficulty with me, I had a look on the Internet and alas I am unique almost on the earth, it's rare to see this view of Hebrew. I found only one other person willing to write about this idea. I quote " www.rd.com/list/contronyms-words-opposites/What is a contronym?
Also called antagonyms, autoantonyms, or Janus words, contronyms are words with two definitions that contradict—or are the reverse of—each other. Put another way, “a contronym is a word with a homonym (another word with the same spelling but different meaning) that is also an antonym (a word with the opposite meaning),” according to Grammarly. Read on to enter the mind-blowing world of words that are their own opposites. And speaking of, these words mean the exact opposite of what you think.
English contronyms
Strike Most people would automatically define the word “strike” as ‘to hit or deliver a blow.’ But in baseball, it can also mean ‘to miss while trying to hit.’
Seed If you ‘seed the lawn,’ you are adding seeds to the grass. But ‘seeding a watermelon’ means that you are removing the seeds, instead.
Trim When you trim the Christmas tree, are you adding its decorations or removing its branches? Technically, this term can be defined either way.
Bound Being bound for something means you are moving towards it. But being bound by something means your actions are restrained or limited. Grammar geeks, beware:
Fast Fast could mean either ‘secured in one place’ or ‘moving quickly.’ For example, you’d probably want your car to be fast, but the tires to hold fast.
Clip Beware of the verb “to clip” as well. You can clip papers by fastening them together with a paperclip, or clip a hedge by removing its branches with shears.
Sanction While a government can ‘sanction’ or allow an event to happen, it can also ‘sanction’ or impose a ban on another country.
Screen If what you mean is ‘to hide’—as in, ‘a screen of fog’—then using the verb “screen” would be correct. But it’s also correct to use this term in the phrase ‘to screen a movie,’ which would mean ‘to show.’
Weather Weather can mean ‘to withstand or endure,’ as in ‘weather a storm,” but also ‘worn down,’ as in ‘the rock is weathered.’
Bolt Are you bolting from the car, or are you bolting the door? The distinction is important: The first usage means ‘to separate away,’ and the second means ‘to hold together’ (such as with a bolt).
Consult Consulting can mean both to give advice and to get advice. While most of us would consult a dictionary or doctor for instructions, a consultant could issue that guidance
Custom A custom is a common practice or tradition shared by many people. But it can also refer to one unique item, such as a custom-made blouse. Language is constantly changing, but these spelling and grammar debates have stayed the same.
Dust When used as a verb rather than a noun, the word “dust” has two opposite meanings: To sprinkle a fine powder over something, or to clean that object by brushing away the dust, instead.
Finished Finished can mean either completed or destroyed, such as in the sentence, “I am finished.”
Out Used in a phrase like “the stars are out,” the term means the stars are visible. But saying “the lights are out” would mean they are not working, or invisible.
Off This is another tricky word to watch out for. “Off” can mean both ‘not functioning,’ as well as ‘functioning,’ depending on how it’s used. Try this brain-busting sentence: You should turn off the alarm that is going off.
Overlook Overlook can mean to monitor or supervise, but it can also mean to neglect or fail to notice. For example, a group of lawyers would not want to overlook an important detail when they overlook the proposed contract.
Left Asking “Who’s left?” is a complicated question. It could either mean who is remaining or who has departed.
Resign While “resign” is considered a contronym in writing, it doesn’t work if you say the word out loud. “Resign,” which means ‘to quit,’ is spelled the same as “resign,” which means ‘to sign up again.’ The only catch? The words have two different pronunciations.
Toss out In a sentence like “I will toss out the idea,” toss out can mean either ‘to suggest’ or ‘to dispose of.’ Rob: SO it there are English contronyms, there are in the Mother of All Languages, Hebrew, Hebrew contronyms as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- theexplanation.com/contradictory-meanings-for-biblical-hebrew-word/Contradictory meanings for words are present in the English language, but we pay little attention to it. The phenomenon even carries two names Contronyms or autoantonyms. Funny, probably not, but both those words came up as errors in my spellcheck. Just goes to show how poorly known this concept is in our mother tongue. If this is practically unknown and untaught in English, I dare say; it is even more so in Biblical Hebrew. This is probably the least known key to mastering Biblical Hebrew, and certainly the most disconcerting. In the introduction, I mentioned that I took two years of online Biblical Hebrew studies with the Institute of Biblical Studies in Jerusalem. I felt the need to verify my study method because I hadn’t seen it expressed in these terms elsewhere. When I mentioned this point of a single word possessing opposite meanings, they didn’t agree. My claim surprised both fellow students and even the professor! As we proceeded throughout the year, I pointed out some examples as we studied them for other purposes. By the end of the year, they could see this and were even pointing it out themselves. I had the verification I was looking for.
Contradictory meanings are more present than one thinks. You must understand not only the concept but especially the consequences. I’d even say that understanding how God and humans function relates to Key 2 of mastering contradictory meanings in the language of the Bible.
In Genesis 1:28, God gave humankind the primary purposes for which He placed them on Earth. They included two principal areas. First, relationships when He says to multiply (H7235) and replenish (H4390) the Earth. Second, the domain of rulership when He accords them the responsibility to subdue (H3533) the Earth’s resources. For example H3533 כָּבַשׁ kâbash kaw-bash’; a primitive root; to tread down; hence, negatively, to disregard; positively, to conquer, subjugate, violate:
KJV – bring into bondage, force, keep under, subdue, bring into subjection.
Notice how this subjugation can be both positive conquer and subjugate) and negative (disregard, violate (even if Strong puts it with the positive)). This corresponds to how humans can rule Earth. It can go both ways. That’s why we can do an Audit. There are articles about the environment and ecology daily. You’ll see Hebrew Concordance for H3533. Click it and you’ll get EVERY reference for subdue in the Old Testament. Study them to see both the positive and negative usages. The Biblical Hebrew allows for vocabulary to express both the positive and negative through the same word.
Another example
Staying in Gen. 1:28 let’s note another such word, replenish. Again, reading it in English, we only think of filling the glass. Notice particularly, Jeremiah 25:34, there’s nothing but negativity in this verse. I have only included the negative side of replenish here. Obviously, there’s the positive side too, which means it has contradictory meanings. Job 16:10 “…they have gathered H4390 themselves together against me.”
Jeremiah 51:11 “…gather H4390 the shields the LORD has raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it…”
Isaiah 40:2 “Speak you comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry to her, that her warfare is accomplished H4390, that her iniquity is pardoned…”
Jeremiah 25:34 “Howl, you shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, you principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished H4390; and you shall fall like a pleasant vessel.”
In summary, God inspired three words (there are others in this context), subdue, dominion, and replenish. They represent governance and relationships. God’s implication is to practice these traits positively. The contexts show that there’s room for negative application. From a human perspective and our proclivity of being two-faced, these three words represent humanity’s doubled-sided, split approach to social relations and government at all levels, from personal to international
Subdue conveys the dual reality that humankind can both enhance and ruin relationships and the environment. Individually and collectively we can properly use or abuse that which we have control over. It can go positively or negatively. It can go from positive to negative and from negative to positive. We can change direction anytime we want. These are the continual choices each of us and society make.
---------------------------- Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed (H5301) into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
It is clear from the above verse that what God breathed into the man gave him life. This is the most positive event in these opening verses of Genesis, the culmination of God’s creation, that of humankind. However, notice the duality of this word in Biblical Hebrew. You can’t help but notice the positive and negative consequences of breathing, both in Strong’s annotation and in the King James Version translations of this word. Positive: inflate, kindle, blow, breath. Negative: scatter, expire, cause to lose (life), seething, snuff.
How can a simple word like breath have such opposite meanings? Notice that it is impossible to see this in English. That’s why we must get into some Biblical Hebrew. Note that it is not Sam Kneller interpreting this word, forcing it into a positive and/or a negative. First, the KJV translators interpret it that way. Strong acknowledges what they did, and The Explanation points out this double confirmation of the principle that Biblical Hebrew words can have both positive and negative connotations.
Ezekiel 22:21 Yea, I will gather you, and blow H5301 upon you in the fire of my wrath, and you shall be melted in the midst thereof.
You can’t get more negative than that! God blows with the fire of His wrath, which will be a huge trial. God can breathe to GIVE life and to TAKE life. Here Strong did not point out negative/positive. The Explanation shows you the positive and negative actual use of this Biblical Hebrew word. The contexts confirm this usage of contradictory meanings.
" End quote Rob" So if you google search "Hebrew contronym?" you do not get many links. There are many "Hebrew contronyms" in Scripture . A few of the ones I have found:- "barak" means "bless or it's opposite, to curse" "nacah" means "test or its opposite, to curse" "chadesh" means "press to care for, or it's opposite, to tread down and control" The author above found a few in his studies. This was first brought to me by Jeff Benner, so I do have a scholar who agrees with me, but maybe he is not as swayed by the implications as I am. Since you are Greek translator you will find this idea weird, as from what I have read Greek words do not have contronyms. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 1, 2022 8:25:01 GMT -5
I apologize for your difficulty with me, I had a look on the Internet and alas I am unique almost on the earth, it's rare to see this view of Hebrew. I found only one other person willing to write about this idea.
www.rd.com/list/contronyms-words-opposites/ What is a contronym? Rob: SO it there are English contronyms, there are in the Mother of All Languages, Hebrew, Hebrew contronyms as well.
This was first brought to me by Jeff Benner, so I do have a scholar who agrees with me, but maybe he is not as swayed by the implications as I am.
Since you are Greek translator you will find this idea weird, as from what I have read Greek words do not have contronyms.DUH – (google) A contronym, sometimes called an auto-antonym or “Janus word” (after the two-faced Greek god), is essentially its own opposite. Accordingly, the meaning that a contronym conveys is entirely context-dependent.YES Robert – Greek has poetry and sarcasms You can tell by contextRobert method – grammar, syntax, context – has no bearing on the meaning of a word – ZERO POLYSEMY Why isn’t your teaching consistent? I do not deny spirit to spirit, the NT misses the HebrewSORRY ROBERT – the New Testament is not error – ABSOLUTE DISAGREEMENTKJV reads the context wrong, it should read …STOP TRYING TO REWRITE SCRIPTURE TO FIT YOUR DOCTRINE Learn to translates and stop playing word games
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2022 17:04:25 GMT -5
D" Learn to translates and stop playing word games
R" Hard when hardly anybody knows about Hebrew contronym?
Most assume Hebrew is polysemous, which it is not.
I like the way Jeff Benner has taught me, are you saying Jeff plays word games?
I used to think I was alone on the WWW until I met Jeff, we both have similar views, that Scripture words should have one basic meaning for every verse.
Unless in context, the word is a Hebrew contronym, than the opposite meaning is intended.
Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse "barak" God, and die.
Here is a Hebrew contronym context. You are NOT saying the verse should read "bless God and die" are you Dave?
Therefore the word "barak" is a Hebrew contronym.
And as such has an opposite meaning if the context demands this.
Ge 22:1 ¶ And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Sometimes the KJV and myself disagree.
nacah means to try or test. The word nacah is a Hebrew contronym. SO in a negative context also means to "tempt to sin".
Was God tempting Abram to kill his son? a negative context...?
Or testing Abram about a voluntary olah sacrifice for sin-offering? a positive context...?
Difficult to say, I say testing Abraham, not tempting him.
But we both agree the word nacah is a Hebrew contronym.
So the KJV is not playing a word game either.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 1, 2022 21:48:45 GMT -5
D" Learn to translates and stop playing word games R" Hard when hardly anybody knows about Hebrew?REPEAT - D" Learn to translateEntire chapters of Hebrew grammar books dedicated to the topic Entire books dedicated to the topicadiakrisis.wordpress.com/2017/06/15/hebrew-enantiosemy/Hebrew EnantiosemyBy Prof. Brian Tice, B.Sci., M.Sci. There is a phenomenon that occurs in almost every language, but especially frequently in Hebrew. It is a form of split polysemy whereby a single word or root can be used to connote two concepts which are opposite one another in meaning. This phenomenon is an excellent example of why context is so important, and why translation methods wherein every instance of a Hebrew root is translated exactly the same are problematic. Words in isolation have semantic domains, i.e. ranges of meaning; but in actual usage, the context (surrounding words, sentences, paragraphs, themes, etc.) dictate which possible meanings are viable and which are not applicable in a particular instance. In addition, there is also the Semitic phenomenon at play whereby Hebrew words convey both a “positive charge” and a “negative charge” simultaneously. Boman observes that in Hebrew, there is no stasis. Most assume Hebrew is polysemous, which it is not.Contronym = polysemy---------------- I like the way Jeff Benner has taught me, are you saying Jeff plays word games? I used to think I was alone on the WWW until I met Jeff, we both have similar views, that Scripture words should have one basic meaning for every verse. 1- either you misunderstand Jeff Brenner 2- or you deliberately misunderstand Jeff Brenner 3- or you deliberately misrepresent Jeff BrennerUnless in context, the word is a Hebrew contronym, than the opposite meaning is intended.You have argued at length that CONTEXY, grammar, or syntax has nothing to do with a words meaning Ge 22:1 ¶ And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. Sometimes the KJV and myself disagree. Was God tempting Abram to kill his son? Or testing Abram about a voluntary olah sacrifice for sin-offering? Difficult to say, I say testing Abraham, not tempting him. DUH – every other person on the planet realizes that Abraham was tempted to disobeyREPEAT - D" Learn to translates and stop playing word gamesYou are translating scripture without the ability to translate You said once there is no need for you to learnYour Robert Method translation short cut is error - absolute error
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2022 4:49:20 GMT -5
D"Hebrew Enantiosemy By Prof. Brian Tice, B.Sci., M.Sci. There is a phenomenon that occurs in almost every language, but especially frequently in Hebrew.
R" Interesting reading the link - it's amazing how scholars invent big ideas, like the Hebrew contronym. Big words for the same theme.
D"You are translating scripture without the ability to translate R" I don't translate, I try to ascertain the meaning of the word. The reason I do this is because translations have too many English words for the same Hebrew word. Translators have to look at suffix and verb endings etc, and I do not do this. I just want to make sure the word meaning is correct.
D"Your Robert Method translation short cut is error - absolute error R" HHmm? child like maybe, how else does one make sure of what a Hebrew word means?
Dictionaries don't help, neither does Strong's help. My method is to look up all the verses with the word and find a basic meaning fit all the verses (unless it's meaning is opposite intended).
My method is not about translating, I leave that with the KJV.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 2, 2022 8:10:15 GMT -5
D"Hebrew Enantiosemy R" Interesting reading the link - it's amazing how scholars invent big ideas, like the Hebrew contronym. Big words for the same theme. If you bothered to learn to translate you might learn a few more big words
D"You are translating scripture without the ability to translate R" I don't translate, I try to ascertain the meaning of the word. CORRECT - YOU PLAY WORD GAMES D"You are translating scripture without the ability to translate R" I don't translate, I try to ascertain the meaning of the word. CORRECT - YOU PLAY WORD GAMES Remember kathistēmi What you tried to do with this word is criminal and NOT consistant with scripture You bent the mean to align with the teaching of Ellen White Remember ARCHON – Eph 6:12 You used your Robert Method to try and change the meaning of scripture
D"Your Robert Method translation short cut is error - absolute error R" HHmm? child like maybe, how else does one make sure of what a Hebrew word means? LEARN TO TRANSLATE – STOP USING SHORT CUTS of your own invention
My method is not about translating, I leave that with the KJV. Then why do you disagree with scripture so consistently and want to rewrite it to fit your doctrine
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2022 16:32:43 GMT -5
D" REMEMBER THE QUESTION? Rom 5:12 because of one man’s SACRIFICE FOR SIN – sin and death entered the world Why won’t you explain your own Robert Method translation? Answer – because it is NONSENSER" I do explain my method very clearly, you post nothing here not even a question, an introduction or a discussion??? I quote you the study method for this word "chataah" HYPOTHESIS: What does the Hebrew word chataah mean ?
INTRODUCTION: There are two Hebrew words often confused in Scripture when both are translated as sin. Languages do not have different words with identical meanings, so the translators are making inconsistent mistakes when translating both "chata" and "chataah" as "sin". The first word chata means to miss the mark in an in-completed action, ie you are sinning. Chet means to miss the mark in a completed sense, ie you have sinned. Both verb and noun forms are essentially the same word and the same meaning. See polysemy studies if you doubt this.
The second word, chataah, on the other hand means to acknowledge the sinner has completed sins and can be seen as the action of doing something about those sins. Scripture records very early when Adam sinned that he transferred his sinning as a sin-offering that represented another person apart from the sinner who would be a sin-bearer (Jesus his Saviour) that would come and atone for the human's sinning. Thus chataah means the transference of sinning unto a sin-offering. The action used animals as a type of sin-bearer to picture the time when Jesus coming as a human would sacrifice Himself for the human who has been sinning, or presently is sinning.
Satan understood this Hebrew picture of chataah and made a religion called Baal that is based on human sacrifice for sinning as well, the human who had sinned offered other humans as a sacrifice, often virgins. Over the years the Hebrew word chataah has become a blended word for sinning (along with chata) because humans package their own guilt and sinning into a sin-offering so another picture angle of chataah is the sinner's sins. Hence the inconsistency with translations.
METHOD: This is a very long study looking at every word in both OT and NT . There are 423 verses.
Short cut links to page 10 100 verses (OT sources) Short cut links to page 20 200 verses (OT sources) Short cut links to page 30 300 verses (NT sources) Short cut links to page 40 400 verses (NT sources)
CONCLUSION: The meaning of chataah is "sin-offering". The meaning is not just sin, but the transference of the sinner's sinning unto a sin-bearer as a sacrifice of offering. The meaning of chataah is about a sinner involved in the salvation process of atonement using Jesus as a Saviour, or Satan as a 'saviour'. The Satanic salvation system is a close counterfeit to Jesus' salvation system. The difference between both, is Satan's system uses satanic power as well as human powered effort, while Jesus' system uses divine power that flows through human vessels that allow such a power to flow willingly.
PICTURE: chataah "sin-offering"
The meaning of this pictograph reads "Outside, the covering strong ; Behold the person !"
PERSONAL APPLICATION: Notice the contrast with chata : chata "sin"
The meaning of this pictograph reads "Outside, the covering strong" The outside letter tells us that we have been banished from God's Eden Garden Home. The basket covering contains the flow of good things from GOD. The bull letter shows us the strong one has changed from God to ourselves, the sinner who is missing the mark. The Hebrew word chata tells us we are outside from God, lost in Satan's world, trying to restore the flow of good things with our own strong authority, hence we're sinners missing the mark.
chata chataah sin sin-offering err error Chataah is a person with sins or errors. One could justly translate chataah as "error". The Hebrew word, also implies the sinner did something about those errors. The Bible speaks of a torah process of salvation in which a sinner could atone for his errors using a sacrifice that through faith allowed the grace of the sin-bearer dying in the place of the sinful sinner pardon through grace. Such a process involves the Hebrew word "chataah" the transference of error (or sins) unto a Saviour, a PERSON behold ! This person unlike the person who made errors, has no errors in his life and need no sin-offering for Himself. The Saviour who dies in place of the sinner who must die for sinning, has no sinning in his life, despite being born as a human in the same body sinning humans have. Thus "chataah" is a fascinating word, worthy of careful study for all the pictures of love that show how sinners trapped in their sinning can be empowered freedom from sinning by the wonderful powers of a divine Saviour.
Chata and chataah are very similar words, hence the translation needs to be similar as well while showing readers the difference between them. The difference between each word is the Hebrew letter for a person. Chataah is about a person making atonement for sinning to another person. The atonement process involves mercy, forgiveness and grace. The reason or these aspects of love is because the sinner has to respond in kind to the sin-bearer who supplies in kind. This means the sin-bearer only loves to forgive the sinner, if the sinner's love responds to the sin-bearer's love.
Many people assume wrongly God's love is unconditional, whatever that term means. Love is an action based on relationship. Love is not something humans can buy or by praying for grace expect grace freely even if such forgiveness is freely available. There is no sin the sin-bearer cannot carry on his shoulders and thus forgive you. There is no amount of past sinning our Saviour cannot atone for, and thus completely remove all sinning records against you. That is Great News !
But if you reach out to take the SEED of Jesus, such a seed will grow in you, developing a power in you so that good things from Jesus will flow through you to His glory and great pleasure. Love is a gift from GOD. All the sinner need do is allow such a gift to change the sinner's attitude and thus as love is freely given, the sinner's love freely comes back and radiates out to influence others. This love is not a human work, nor are humans expected to work a service of love. No. The sinner responds to the Saviour's love because he sees he is loved, not because of human works to achieve that love. It is true Cain's work of sin-offering was a short-cut, with human error, but it was not the human errors that made his sin-offering unaccepted, while Abel's sin-offering work was accepted. The difference was Cain's work was not a respond in kind to His Saviour's love, while Abel's work was a respond to His Saviour's love. If you want to read how such love is contrasted, read this parable.
Mt 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Did Cain have His Saviour's love germinated and growing ? Yes. Such love was supplying Cain with love so Cain could respond, but the love eventually dried up and died. Why did His Saviour's love dry up and die ? Because Cain's soil in his heart caused the SEED of Jesus to dry up and die. There are many factors that cause the Saviour's love to die, such as pride (soil hardening), bitterness (soil pH sourness), tribulation trials (soils that dry out from excessive sunshine and lack of rain), accepting the wrong crowd ( birds come and steal the seed or seedling away from the soil) and choking caused by self-imposed indulgence (seeds are starved by competition from other weeds). Read the parable in Matthew 13 for further details.
What we need is a sin-bearer, a person who can Save us, a Saviour. This Saviour has to be human like us so that His life can be replaced for the sinner's life, life in the place for life. Hence in the word chataah we see the letter of a person, Behold ! Outside in Satan's world, the flow of good things from God comes through the strong authority of the Saviour, the Sin-bearer, BEHOLD !
Thus chataah is really the good news for sinners as long as the sinner uses the sin-offering correctly. The purpose of the sin-offering was the person would restore the flow of good things to the sinner. Thus wilful sinning stops and a victorious life ensues. The sinner walks a renewed life in the Saviour !
The word chataah is a relationship concept with the sinner and a Saviour hand in hand together. Such a relationship changes how sinning is seen in many verses and changes the focus from dealing with shadows of sins to the source of light that defines the sinning from our Saviour. Without light there would be no definition of our sinning, and it is only in the hand of Jesus the sinner sees his or her sinning as truly enormous in the relationship. The Bible describes two kinds of shadows or sinning in Scripture. Those covered by Jesus, our Saviour as our sin-offering; and those sins that are not covered by Jesus' light. Thus it is important for the sinner to have all sinning covered by the sin-bearer, or the sinner would be cut off from salvation by the Saviour. So one can abuse chataah and insult our Saviour by continuously sinning wilfully, we somehow expect our sinning to be covered completely by Jesus our Saviour. Such cheap grace does not exist in Scripture but only in the minds of sinful men.
As we continue through the study of these verses, other insights will be gleamed from the verses. God bless the careful reader looking for salvation through our sin-bearer Jesus, as we offer Jesus as our sin-offering for our sinning, may we embrace the flow of power from Jesus as well. Shalom
DISCUSSION:----------------------------------- spiritualsprings.org/ss-590.htmHere is the link, please read the method and discussion, several dozen pages long.... ---------------------------------- Now what specifically are you asking or suggesting? ----------------------------------- D" CORRECT - YOU PLAY WORD GAMES Remember kathistēmiR" Without assess to prefix and suffix, my Bible software is fine in it's child like state, offers child like level of understanding Bible words. kathistēmi means "to establish" but specifically "to establish a ruler who rules" not that the word itself says this, but is implied to say this, as all the contexts of this word implies. Mt 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? (KJV) 45 tiV ara estin o pistoV douloV kai jronimoV on katesthsen o kurioV autou epi thV qerapeiaV autou tou didonai autoiV thn trojhn en kairw (TR) The Greek says "who established you lord (or master) " Mt 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. (KJV) 47 amhn legw umin oti epi pasin toiV uparcousin autou katasthsei auton (TR) The word " ruler" is missing here, but implied, the Greek does not have "kurios". Mt 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. (KJV) 21 ejh de autw o kurioV autou eu doule agaqe kai piste epi oliga hV pistoV epi pollwn se katasthsw eiselqe eiV thn caran tou kuriou sou (TR) The word " ruler" is missing here, but implied, the Greek does not have "kurios". Lu 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? (KJV) 42 eipen de o kurioV tiV ara estin o pistoV oikonomoV kai jronimoV on katasthsei o kurioV epi thV qerapeiaV autou tou didonai en kairw to sitometrion (TR) Here the word "establish has the word kurios" to "make thee a ruler" Ac 7:10 And delivered him out of all his afflictions, and gave him favour and wisdom in the sight of Pharaoh king of Egypt; and he made him governor over Egypt and all his house. (KJV) 10 kai exeileto auton ek paswn twn qliyewn autou kai edwken autw carin kai sojian enantion jaraw basilewV aiguptou kai katesthsen auton hgoumenon ep aigupton kai olon ton oikon autou (TR) Here the word "establish has the word governor" The quoting from Genesis 42 Ge 42:6 And Joseph <Yowceph> was the governor <shalliyt> over the land Does NOT have "established"?? so what Hebrew word is "established"? Ac 7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler "archon" and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush. (KJV) 35 touton ton mwushn on hrnhsanto eiponteV tiV se katesthsen arconta kai dikasthn touton o qeoV arconta kai lutrwthn apesteilen en ceiri aggelou tou ojqentoV autw en th batw (TR) "Here establish has also the word "archon" to be a ruler? So Dave if kathistemi only means "established", than why does the KJV put "ruler" into the translations for Mt 24:47 , the word "ruler" is missing? Mt 25:21 , the word "ruler" is missing? --------------------------------------------------------- Word study for archon - 36 verses Mt 9:18 ..., there came a certain ruler, Mt 9:23 And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, Mt 9:34 ...the prince ruler of the devils. Mt 20:25 ..the princes rulers of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, Lu 18:18 ¶ And a certain ruler asked him, Lu 23:35 ..And the rulers also with them derided him, Joh 3:1 ..Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: Joh 12:31 ...now shall the prince ruler of this world be cast out. Ac 4:8 ..Ye rulers of the people, Eph 2:2 ..according to the prince ruler of the power of the air, Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince ruler of the kings of the earth. So does the word mean "ruler" or "prince"? Next I use a cross reference, where the OT is quoted against the NT. Ex 2:14 And he said <'amar>, Who made <suwm> thee <'iysh> a prince <sar> and a judge <shaphat> over us? Ac 7:35 This <touton> Moses <Moseus> whom <hos> they refused <arneomai>, saying <epo>, Who <tis> made <kathistemi> thee <se> a ruler <archon> and <kai> a judge <dikastes>? So on the basis of this quoting the OT with NT Greek, the word "archon" means "prince". Rev 1:5 is better with Jesus as a prince, OT reference. Lu 18:18 ¶ And a certain ruler asked him (better as a prince) Joh 3:1 ..Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (He was a prince) Therefore "archon" means "prince" the Hebrew term is "sar".Now pull holes in my child like method if you wish? RP" HHmm? child like maybe, how else does one make sure of what a Hebrew word means?D" LEARN TO TRANSLATE – STOP USING SHORT CUTS of your own inventionR" That is easy for you to say. Not for laypeople who have to trust their translators. At least Jeff is a better translator. Pity he has not translated to entire NT and OT. RP" My method is not about translating, I leave that with the KJV.D" Then why do you disagree with scripture so consistently and want to rewrite it to fit your doctrineR" because the KJV uses inconsistent word meanings for the Hebrew words. Like kathistemi for instance, if the word only means "establish" fine. When my computer died, I have lost my Jeff Benner file converting Greek words to Hebrew words, so please help, what is the Hebrew word for kathestimi? I can't remember what Jeff says it is?
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Post by Dave on Aug 3, 2022 0:01:11 GMT -5
D"REMEMBER THE QUESTION? Rom 5:12 because of one man’s SACRIFICE FOR SIN – sin and death entered the world Why won’t you explain your own Robert Method translation? Answer – because it is NONSENSE R" I do explain my method very clearly, you post nothing here not even a question, an introduction or a discussion???
I quote you the study method for this word "chataah"
spiritualsprings.org/ss-590.htm Here is the link, please read the method and discussion, several dozen pages long....
Why does it take you dozens of pages to justify an answer
Short – simple – easy – the word is Greek - G2566 - sin STOP TRYING TO REWRTIE SCRIPTURE ----------------------------------
D" CORRECT - YOU PLAY WORD GAMES Remember kathistēmi R" kathistēmi means "to establish" Correct – no more no less
So Dave if kathistemi only means "established", than why does the KJV put "ruler" into the translations for Mt 24:47 , the word "ruler" is missing? Mt 25:21 , the word "ruler" is missing? East Answer – CONTEXT
Mat 24:47 - over all his substance he will set him. Appoint – establish – ordain – put in place Mt 25:21 - over many things I will set thee Appoint – establish – ordain – put in place Act 6:3 - whom we may set over this necessity, Appoint – establish – ordain – put in place Act 17:15 And those conducting Paul, Appoint – establish – ordain – put in place Rom 5:19 -- many were constituted sinners: Appoint – establish – ordain – put in place Tit 1:5 - city elders, as I did appoint Appoint – establish – ordain – put in place Heb 5:1 - in behalf of men is set in things pertaining to God, Appoint – establish – ordain – put in place Heb 7:28 - for the law doth appoint men chief priests, Appoint – establish – ordain – put in place Heb 8:3 - to offer both gifts and sacrifices is appointed, Appoint – establish – ordain – put in place Jas 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! have ye not known that friendship of the world is enmity with God? Appoint – establish – ordain – put in place WHAT the world is God’s enemy – Robert teaches satan is God’s enemy 2Pe 1:8 - do make you neither inert nor unfruitful Appoint – establish – ordain – out in place
So Dave if kathistemi only means "established", than why does the KJV put "ruler" into the translations for Mt 24:47 , the word "ruler" is missing? Mt 25:21 , the word "ruler" is missing? East Answer – CONTEXT All of your arguments against CONTEXT is error ---------------------------------------------------------
Word study for archon - 36 verses So on the basis of this quoting the OT with NT Greek, the word "archon" means "prince". Rev 1:5 is better with Jesus as a prince, OT reference. Lu 18:18 ¶ And a certain ruler asked him (better as a prince) Joh 3:1 ..Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (He was a prince) Therefore "archon" means "prince" the Hebrew term is "sar". YES it does – thank you for admitting it
Now pull holes in my child like method if you wish? Do you deny you tried your best to prove that Eph 6:12 was not about archon Archie only means beginning was your argument Do you deny this? -----------------------
RP" HHmm? child like maybe, how else does one make sure of what a Hebrew word means? D" LEARN TO TRANSLATE – STOP USING SHORT CUTS of your own invention R" That is easy for you to say. Not for laypeople who have to trust their translators.
Laypeople do not translate – or try to Students translate –Serious students start by learning to translate
At least Jeff is a better translator. Pity he has not translated to entire NT and OT. Pitty you have not read the OT and NT
RP" My method is not about translating, I leave that with the KJV. D" Then why do you disagree with scripture so consistently and want to rewrite it to fit your doctrine R" because the KJV uses inconsistent word meanings for the Hebrew words. RP" My method is not about translating, - it is a word game – switching words around until it says what you want
Anything it takes to validate your Ezk 28 god of evil Your idea that the commandment to go forth be fruitful and multiply is ‘aven’ is proof all you can see is wicked evil in everything satan boy
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