Post by Dave on Jul 3, 2022 21:58:34 GMT -5
Dave – makes the claim of being a Gnostic Christian
Act 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
after his passion … speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God
Rome – and the Roman Index did their best to erase this information from history
Only hints of it existed – until 1945 and the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library
31/33 books inside the Library – only 11 claim heritage to James, John, Paul, peter, Phillip, or Thomas
Gnostic Christianity = True Empirical Science → Romans 1:19 (all creation witnesses to the Creator) Psalms 19:2 (even on the astrological scale) → Abraham → Moses → ahl (more than just the Torah) Jewish Theology → Jesus Christ as the Messiah → The Gospel → agl (the Roman Canon) + the Post-Resurrection teaching of Jesus to His disciples (James, John, Paul, peter, Phillip, or Thomas)
Robert is unable to factually or scripturally back up his satan doctrine –
so he must attempt to diminish those who reject his teaching
And questions me about this –
My response – sounds fun – easy peasy
www.gnosticdoctrine.com/2020/06/satan-devil.html
POINT – this web-site is not from a Gnostic source - it is from
The Restored Church of God,
Mr. Pack left the Worldwide Church of God in 1993, educating and leading the way for thousands who would follow.
Determined not to compromise his beliefs, Mr. Pack started The Restored Church of God in May 1999. Restored is a truly unique organization, unlike any other on Earth. Under his leadership, it proclaims a powerful and positive message, answering the greatest question on the minds of billions: What is the purpose of human existence? This requires special focus on the scriptural SOLUTIONS to the awful problems, troubles, evils and ills mankind has always faced, but which have grown much worse in the 21st century.
Mr. Pack’s and the Church’s materials address the everyday concerns of the average man and woman—and do so without soliciting funds, proselytizing or involvement in politics. All literature and programs are offered free of charge and in the public interest. Mr. Pack is dedicated to teaching the only path to world peace—the good news beyond today’s bad news. In this regard, he has produced or guided into production a vast reservoir of educational material for people of every age.
POINT – all I have done is study the text – I have never heard of this group until today
The theology of orthodox Christianity places the devil in juxtaposition with God. As the one is presented for worship as the source and embodiment of all good, so the other is held up for detestation and dread, as the instigator and promoter of all evil. Practically, the one is regarded in the light of the good God, and the other as the bad god. It is the polytheism of paganism ..
ABSOLUTLY AGREE! – The Great Controversy between to cosmic gods = denies the ONE TRUE GOD
The first thing we have to address is the definition of Satan. While fundamentalists will tell you that Satan was present in the Bible from the very foundations laid in Genesis, history tells us a different story. The words Satan, Devil, demon, Lucifer, fallen angel etc. simply don't occur in the whole of the book of Genesis. Throughout the Old Testament, the one and only God is presented as all powerful, without equal and in no competition with any other cosmic force. The Old Testament makes it clear that any 'adversary' to God's people was ultimately under the control of God Himself.
AGREE – that Catholic satan, Lucifer, Fallen Angels – were invented by Rome – NOT Jewish Theologfy
The period between the Old and New Testaments saw the production of a huge volume of Jewish literature advocating a personal Satan. Jewish writings speak of a figure called Beliar, a kind of personal Satan figure. The Book of Enoch and the story of the "watchers" became accepted as dogma amongst the Jews- i.e. that the "watcher" Angels had sinned and come to earth at the time of Genesis 6 and married beautiful women. Thus the Book Of Jubilees, dating from around 104 B.C., claims that God placed "over all nations and peoples, spirits in authority, to lead them astray" (15:31). Why would the righteous God place His people under the authority of those who would lead them astray- and then judge us for going astray? Jubilees 5:2 blames the flood on the fact that the earth was morally corrupt, but it claims that the animal creation also sinned and brought about the state of corruptness which required the destruction of the flood- thereby taking the spotlight off human sin as the sole cause for the flood.
ONLY IF YOU AGREE WITH bane elohiyn + woman demi-god hybrids
Again – the sin = reproduce after your own kind
The Bible clearly states that the suffering and disease that there is in the earth is a result of Adam's sin; but Jubilees claims that all such illnesses were a result of evil spirits,…
YES – Gen 3:14-19
The contest is between man and world + man and archon
YES – the archon can manipulate nature (wind, rain, fertility, disease)
YES – as each shedim demon presented himself to King Solomon – each has a specialty and each had a thing /plant / potion / spell / angel that could STOP THEM
"And we explained to Noah all the medicines of their diseases, together with their seductions, how he might heal them with herbs of the earth" (Jub. 10:12-13).
After the fall of the second temple Rabbinical scholars rejected all of the Enochian writings mentioning Satan as a literal, heavenly figure and fallen angels, and viewing Satan to symbolize evil inclination (malicious impulses) yetzer hara (Hebrew: יֵצֶר הַרַע)
INCORRECT – after the destruction of the Temple – the Rabbis discontinued to use Enoch because of its validation of the agl Gospel
Enoch Chapters 90 and on are all about the rapture – 2nd Coming of Christ – and the Four Horsemen of Revelation
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SATAN is a Hebrew word that has been transferred to the New Testament and to the English. It denotes an adversary, an opponent or an enemy. It has been translated seven times: “adversary”; five times: “be an adversary”; once each: “resist” and “to withstand”; nineteen times: “satan” (as in Numbers 22:22; Matthew 16:23).
The Accuser (often said by clergy to be Satan) in the Book of Job is literally an agent of the court, much like Prosecutors in the modern legal system. There’s no indication that this is a fallen angel. (One has to ask, how on earth did a fallen angel even appear before God if said fallen angel is supposed to be suffering in the fires of Hell?) The original Hebrew word HaSatan simply means adversary or accuser.
The first place where it occurs is Num. 22:22 :--"And God's anger was kindled because he (Balaam) went; and the angel of the Lord stood in the way for an adversary (SATAN) against him."
It next occurs in the same chapter, verse 32 :--
"And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? Behold, I went out to withstand (marg., to be AN ADVERSARY--a Satan to) thee."
In this case, Satan was a holy angel. Understanding "Satan" to mean adversary in its simple and general sense, we can see how this could be; but, understanding it as the evil being of popular belief, it would be a different matter.
Absolutely AGREE – Roman Catholicism makes into as different matter
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The following are other cases in which the word is translated "adversary," in the common version of the Scriptures:--
"Let him not go down with us to battle, lest in the battle he be an adversary (SATAN) to us" (1 Sam 29:4).
"And David said, What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zeruiah, that ye should this day be adversaries (SATANS) unto me?" (2 Sam 19:22).
"But now the Lord my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary (SATAN) nor evil occurrent" (1 Kings 5:4).
"And the Lord stirred up an adversary (SATAN) unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king's seed in Edom" (1 Kings 11:14).
"And God stirred him up another adversary (SATAN), Rezon, the son of Eliadah, which fled from his lord Hadadezer king of Zobah."
"And he was an adversary (SATAN) to Israel all the days of Solomon" (1 Kings 11:23, 25).
Matthew 16:23 - “But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of MEN.”
The foregoing literal definitions indicate certain characteristics applicable to mankind and NOT to a superhuman evil god of the lower regions.
These definitions indicate characteristics of mankind, NOT a superhuman evil god.
Sometimes satan – just means accuse/oppose – no more – no less
Gnostic teaching = I can be your satan – or you can be my satan – as Peter was to Christ
Also – I can be a Christ – you can be a Christ – by saving others – generating Fruit
Gnosticism is a call not to be satisfied with following Christ – but to be a Christ (A Born Again – Spirit led Christian)
The devil of popular opinion (the demigod of the lower region) cannot be found in the Hebrew Old testament writings.
The deceiving phase of mind in man that has fixed ideas in opposition to Truth (adversary, lier in wait, accuser, opposer, hater, an enemy). Satan assumes various forms in man's consciousness, among which may be mentioned egotism, a puffing up of the personality; and the opposite of this, self-deprecation, which admits the "accuser" into the consciousness. This "accuser" makes man believe that he is inherently evil.
Satan is the "Devil," a state of mind formed by man's personal ideas of his power and completeness and sufficiency apart from God devils/archon are 100% real – they fuel (yester ra) which results in man’s personal ideas
Besides at times puffing up the personality, this satanic thought often turns about and, after having tempted one to do evil, discourages the soul by accusing it of sin. Summed up, it is the state of mind in man that believes in its own sufficiency independent of its creative Source.
Guilt – is a result of “knowing better deep inside” (yester tov)
However – the archon can sure use this guilt against man - helping man to ne defeated /negative /insecure
Satan--The Adversary, the great universal negative whose power is derived from the unlawful expression of man's own being. I am the only one – I am arrogant – I am first
The serpent as "Satan" is sensation suggesting indulgence in pleasures beyond the law fixed by creative Mind.
YES – go ahead – indulge your physical senses beyond the Law -
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In the New Testament, the word DEVIL is derived from the Greek word ‘diabolos’ which literally means a slanderer, a false witness, or a liar, which can only apply to mankind and not to one of God’s heavenly hosts.
NOT CONSISTANT WITH SCRIPTURE – also NOT found within – James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, or Thomas of the Nag Hammadi
This is the Sethian view – the bane elohiym of Gen 6 = men – Jesus was just a man
As Jesus applied "Satan" to Peter, so he applied "devil" to Judas: "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is A DEVIL?" (John 6:70). Judas proved a liar, a betrayer, a false accuser, and, therefore, a devil. Paul, in 1 Tim 3:11, tells the wives of deacons not to be devils. His exhortation, it is true, does not appear in this form in the English version. The words, as translated, are "Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers (diabolous)." The same remark applies to 2 Tim 3:2, 3 "For men shall be... without natural affection, truce-breakers, false accusers (diaboloi)"; and to Titus 2:3: "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers (diabolous)."
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Jesus) also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might DESTROY him that had the power of death, THAT IS, THE DEVIL."
YES – we can all be called - satanas/ devils
On the supposition that the devil here referred to is the orthodox devil, or a personal devil of any kind, there are four absurdities on the face of this passage.
In the first place, to take on the weakness of flesh and blood was a strange way of preparing to fight a powerful devil, who, it would be imagined, would be more successfully encountered in the panoply of angelic strength, which Paul expressly says Jesus did not array himself in; for he says, "He took not on him the nature of angels" (Heb. 2:16).
Correct – took on Human Form – because salvation is for mankind
To be fully human in every sense of the word
God came to earth – incarnate – to walk in YOUR SHOES
In the second place it was stranger still that the process of destroying the devil should be submission to death himself! One would have thought that to vanquish and destroy the devil, life inextinguishable, and strength indomitable, would have been the qualification. Undoubtedly they would have been so, if, the Bible devil had been the orthodox devil--a personal monster.
All men die – thank to Eve – Rome 5:12
Jesus Christ had to die as all men die – to be fully human
life inextinguishable – eternal life is the Promise – John 3:16
In the third place, the devil ought now to be dead …
Sounds just like Robert – no need to read this
The devil Christ has come to destroy is sin. If anyone doubts this, let .him reconsider Paul's words quoted above. What did Christ accomplish in his death? Let the following testimonies answer:--
"He put away SIN by the sacrifice of himself" (Heb. 9:26).
"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor 15:3).
"He was wounded for our transgressions; he was bruised for our iniquities" (Isa. liii, 5).
"His own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree" (2 Pet 2:24).
"He was manifested to take away OUR SINS" (1 John 3:5).
Christ, through death, destroyed, or took out of the way, "the sin of the world ". In this, he destroyed the Bible devil.
In this, he destroyed the Bible devil. = NOT SCRIPTURAL – NOT within – James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, or Thomas of the Nag Hammadi
When you receive your Divine Pardon – all the sin of this world is forgiven – ignored – forgotten
The Beast / archon / devils / satanas are OUR REAL STRUGGLE (Eph 6:12) – until Rev 20:11-15
He certainly did not destroy the popular devil in his death, for that devil is supposed to be still at large, but in his own person, as a representative man, he extinguished the power of sin by surrendering to its full consequences, and then escaping by resurrection, through the power of his own holiness, to live for evermore. This is described as "God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh" (Rom. viii, 3). Sin in the flesh, then, is the devil destroyed by Jesus in his death. This is the devil having the power of death, for it is sin, and nothing else but sin that causes death to men.
Anything that keeps you away from recognizing the One True God in your life – threatens your soul
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
Does anyone doubt this ? Let him read the following testimonies:
By one man sin entered into the world, and death BY sin" (Rom. v, 12)
"By man CAME DEATH (I Cor. xv, 21).
"The wages of sin is DEATH" (Rom. vi, 23). "SIN hath reigned unto death" (Rom. v, 21). "SIN... bringeth forth death" (James i, 15). "The sting of death is SIN" (I Cor. xv, 56).
AGREED – Sin and DEATH were brought into the world by Eve (Adam and Eve)
The devil, a Bible synonym for sin - abstract and concrete - existing as the spirit of disobedience in the children of men and embodied and manifested in the persons and institutions of present order of things.
Hmmm? – synonym = a word game – OK as a sermon – NOT as a replacement for scripture
(1) a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close. - "“the East” was a synonym for the Soviet empire"
(2) a person or thing so closely associated with a particular quality or idea that the mention of their name calls it to mind.
the spirit of disobedience in the children of men and embodied and manifested in the persons
(yester ra) selfishness – selfish desire – lust – power – wealth – fame = the root of man’s error
(yester ra) = the biological instinct for self-preservation and the survival of the species
(yester ra) = go forth, be fruitful, and multiply – the commandment to all biology
(yester ra) = go forth, be fruitful, and multiply – AND DOMINATE - the commandment to man
Satan The devil is a personification of human nature this is not an abstraction but that physical principle of the animal nature, which is the cause of all its diseases, death, and resolution into dust. It is that in the flesh "which has the power of death" and it is called sin, because the development, or fixation, of this evil in the flesh, was the result of transgression. Inasmuch as this evil principle pervades every part of the flesh, the animal nature is styled "sinful flesh," that is, "flesh full of sin"; so that sin, in the sacred style, came to stand for the substance called man. In human flesh "dwells no good thing" (Rom. 7:17,18); and all the evil a man does is the result of this principle dwelling in him.
(yester ra) = go forth, be fruitful, and multiply – AND DOMINATE - the commandment to man
Same as Satan, which see. The "devil" signifies the mass of thoughts that have been built up in consciousness through many generations of earthly experiences and crystallized into what may be termed human personality, or carnal mind. Another name of the "devil" is sense consciousness; all the thoughts in one that fight against and are adverse to Truth belong to the state of mind that is known to metaphysicians as the Devil.
The "devil" is a state of consciousness adverse to the divine good. Other names for this state of consciousness are the Adversary, carnal mind, the accuser, and the old man. There is no personal devil. God is the one omnipresent Principle of the universe, and there is no room for any principle of evil, personified or otherwise.
Hmmm? – Blah blah blah
synonym = a word game – OK as a sermon – NOT as a replacement for scripture
The key word / phrase here = carnal mind = (yester ra) lust/desire for wold
Devil, how to overcome the-
The Devil is overcome by denying his existence and by affirming universal Christ love for God and all men.
Agree – expose them for who they are – stick them up on a pole for all to see
What was once evil and scary turned out to be just a snake in the grass (MEDICINE for fiery serpents)
The devils that we encounter are fear, anger, jealousy, and other similar negative traits, and they are in ourselves.
Authoritative Teaching - NHL
In this very way we exist in this world, like fish. The adversary spies on us, lying in wait for us like a fisherman, wishing to seize us, rejoicing that he might swallow us. For he places many foods before our eyes (things) which belong to this world. He wishes to make us desire one of them and to taste only a little, so that he may seize us with his hidden poison and bring us out of freedom and take us into slavery. For whenever he catches us with a single food, it is indeed necessary for us to desire the rest. Finally, then, such things become the food of death.
Now these are the foods with which the devil lies in wait for us. First he injects a pain into your heart until you have heartache on account of a small thing of this life, and he seizes (you) with his poisons. And afterward (he injects) the desire of a tunic, so that you will pride yourself in it, and love of money, pride, vanity, envy that rivals another envy, beauty of body, fraudulence. The greatest of all these are ignorance and ease.
Now all such things the adversary prepares beautifully and spreads out before the body, wishing to make the mind of the soul incline her toward one of them and overwhelm her, like a hook, drawing her by force in ignorance, deceiving her until she conceives evil, and bears fruit of matter, and conducts herself in uncleanness, pursuing many desires, covetousnesses, while fleshly pleasure draws her in ignorance.
But the soul - she who has tasted these things - realized that sweet passions are transitory. She had learned about evil; she went away from them and she entered into a new conduct. Afterwards she despises this life, because it is transitory.
Christ gives us the power to cast out these devils, thereby cleansing our consciousness.
Agreed
Who is Satan in Gnosticism?
If we take, for example, the Valentinian Gnostic cosmogony, the Christian notion of Satan doesn’t come into play at all.
CORRECT – NOT CATHOLIC SATAN – but Jewish Belzeebul and the shedim / the Beast and his archon
According to the sethian Gnostics The God of the Jews and the Christians is either Yaldabaoth or Sabaoth the ill-begotten son of Sophia
Bingo - Sethian Gnostics – NOT James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas from the Nag Hammadi
In contrast, Ptolemy, and other Valentinians steadfastly maintained that "the creation is not due to a god who corrupts but to one who is just and hates evil" (Letter to Flora 3:6). He carefully distinguished the Demiurge from both God and the Devil. According to Ptolemy, "he is essentially different from these two (God and the Devil) and is between them, he is rightly given the name, Middle" (Letter to Flora 7:4). He is "neither good nor evil and unjust, can properly be called just , since he is the arbitrator of the justice which depends on him" (Letter to Flora 7:5)
In the gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Philip Satan and the devil never appear. Correct – they speak of the archon
however the devil appeas once in the Gospel of Truth
Who cares – NOT James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, or Thomas from the Nag Hammadi
To be “a dwelling-place for the devil” implies that the Devil enters us. “The lusts of other (sinful) things entering in” (Mk. 4:19) cause us to sin. Our lusts are described several times as physically moving into our heart from our evil nature where they are stored "an evil man brings forth evil things from his evil storehouse, which is in his heart, and says evil things. For out of the abundance of the heart he brings forth evil things." (Gospel of Thomas Saying 45)
evil things from his evil storehouse, which is in his heart = (yester ra)
The Gospel of Philip like the book of Isaiah (45:7) does not see good and evil as cosmic opposites instead—“light and dark, life and death, good and evil”—are in reality pairs of interdependent terms in which each implies the other.
Isa 45:5 I am Adonai—there is no other. Besides Me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known Me,
Isa 45:6 so they may know, from the rising to the setting of the sun, that there is no one besides Me. I am Adonai—there is no other.
Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things.
Isa 45:8 “Rain down, O heavens, from above, and let the clouds pour down justice. Let the earth open up, let salvation sprout, and righteousness spring up with it. I, Adonai, have created it.”
Philip, on the other hand, interprets the human inclination to sin without recourse to Satan
(yester ra) = selfishness – lust – desire – greed – for the world
The gospel of Thomas and Philip teach that within each person's heart lies the root of wickedness. This is Philip’s interpretation of the traditional Jewish teaching of the yetzer hara, which the rabbis called the “evil inclination.” So long as we remain unaware of “the root of evil” within us, Philip says, “it is powerful; but when it is recognized, it is destroyed.”
YES – knowledge is power – KNOW YOUR ENEMY
Example – I am 18 preaching the Gospel – yet the girl I am witnessing to gives me an errection
(yester ra) = lust – desire – survival of the species
(yester tov) = be a Christian and lust NOT
(yester ra) = see what a sinner you are – bad Christian – feel guilty - feel wrong – apologies
Gnostic = I am animal – God already knows that – stop apologizing and praise the Grace that forgives
45. Jesus said, "Grapes are not harvested from thorn trees, nor are figs gathered from thistles, for they yield no fruit. Good persons produce good from what they've stored up; bad persons produce evil from the wickedness they've stored up in their hearts, and say evil things. For from the overflow of the heart they produce evil." DUH
The Root of Evil
Let each of us also dig down after the root of evil within us and pull it out of our hearts from the root. It will be uprooted if we recognize it. But if we are ignorant of it, it takes root in us and produces fruit in our hearts. It dominates us. We are its slaves, and it takes us captive so that we do what we do [not] want and do [not] do what we want. [cf. Rom. 7:14—15] It is powerful because we do not recognize it. As long as [it] exists, it stays active.
Gospel of Thomas - NHL
(68) Jesus said, "Blessed are you when you are hated and persecuted. Wherever you have been persecuted they will find no place."
(69) Jesus said, "Blessed are they who have been persecuted within themselves. It is they who have truly come to know the father. Blessed are the hungry, for the belly of him who desires will be filled."
(70) Jesus said, "That which you have will save you if you bring it forth from yourselves. That which you do not have within you will kill you if you do not have it within you."
Essential to gnosis is to “know” one’s own potential for evil. According to Philip, recognizing evil within oneself is necessarily an individual process:
This is personal for me
As a manic depressive - I have been wrong more than once
and so to identify acts that spring from the “root of evil,” which consists in such impulses as anger, lust, envy, pride, and greed.
All = (yester ra)
This teacher assumes that when one recognizes that a certain act derives from such sources, one loses the conviction needed to sustain the action. In order to do evil— whether to indulge in an angry tirade, commit murder, or declare aggressive war—one seems to require the illusion that one’s action is justified, that one is acting for right reasons.
YES - every time i was wrong _ i was only thinking of ME - My feelings - My expectations - My needs - My desires
YES - at the moment I feel both justified and offended - in the right
But I learned to journal - I write when I am upset - next week when I re-read it
I just seem petty and selfish
This author holds, then, the optimistic conviction that “truth ... is more powerful than ignorance of error.”90 Knowing the truth in this way involves more than an intellectual process; it involves transformation of one’s being, transformation of one’s way of living: “If we know the truth, we shall find its fruits within us; if we join ourselves with it, we shall receive our fulfillment
no one can dictate to another what is good or evil; instead, each one must strive to recognize his or her own inner state,
Sometimes - another's apparent ra = facilitating God's Will on earth
Gen 50:20 Yes, you yourselves planned evil against me. God planned it for good, in order to bring about what it is this day—to preserve the lives of many people.
Rob asks Dave" I found this, and the Gnostic view of Satan, is that God is our Satan, our Adversary who does the bad along with the good? Is this what the Author is saying?
WHAT? - NONESENSE - ROBERT'S SLANDER
The Gnostics ... disagree …
R" What is your opinion of this ?
Two groups – Valentinus – that taught spirituality
Sethians – spirit denies – only world – only grave
But the majority Gnostic position was one that modern scholars call “separationism:” the idea that Jesus did have a material body, but that his body and his spirit were two separate entities, such that no matter how many pains were inflicted on his body, his spirit never suffered.[19] This made perfect sense within the Gnostics’ sharply dualistic worldview, wherein spirit and matter were categorically different, and even opposing, phenomena.
R" What is your opinion of this ?
Matter and spirit are two different things
Jesus = the Son of Man – 100% human – 100% flesh of biology – with its (yester ra)
Christ = the Son of God – God incarnate – the Image of God – the definition of (yester tov)
Jesus Christ = (Son of Man / flesh / biology / yester ra) + (Son of God = Christ the only begotten = God incarnate = the Image of God – yester tov)
In this view, the heavenly being Christ temporarily entered into and took over the body of the man Jesus. The Gnostic text Three Forms of First Thought declares that a divine power “put on Jesus” like a garment. The Second Treatise of the Great Seth has Christ say, “I approached a bodily dwelling and evicted the previous occupant, and I went in.”
R" What is your opinion of this ?
The Second Treatise of the Great Seth - NHL
I visited a bodily dwelling. I cast out the one who was in it first, and I went in. And the whole multitude of the archons became troubled. And all the matter of the archons, as well as all the begotten powers of the earth, were shaken when it saw the likeness of the Image, since it was mixed. And I am the one who was in it, not resembling him who was in it first. For he was an earthly man, but I, I am from above the heavens. I did not refuse them even to become a Christ, but I did not reveal myself to them in the love which was coming forth from me. I revealed that I am a stranger to the regions below.
(1) as the title suggest – this is a Sethian Document
(2) this is the very basis of the Arian Controversy that resulted in the Nicaean Creed
Was Jesus Christ always (Jesus)+(Christ)
Or did Jesus become (Jesus)+( Christ) – when the Holy Spirit descended upon Him as a dove
The Gnostics answered that blood, and more broadly the material nature of which blood is a part, was precisely what the savior had come to earth to save us from. In the words of the Gospel of Philip, Christ “came to crucify the world.”[39] And he succeeded, even though the archons, the demonic rulers of the world, tried and failed to crucify him to stop his mission.
YES – by trying to stop Jesus – they opened the Age of the Gentile
Gen 50:20 Yes, you yourselves planned evil against me. God planned it for good, in order to bring about what it is this day—to preserve the lives of many people.
By descending into the material world and overcoming it by surviving the death of his body, the Gnostic Christ enabled others to overcome it and achieve a spiritual resurrection (gnosis) as well.[40] As the Gnostic Treatise on Resurrection puts it, “The Savior swallowed death. … When he laid aside the perishable world, he exchanged it for an incorruptible eternal realm. He arose and swallowed the visible through the invisible, and thus he granted us the way to our immortality.”
R" What is your opinion of this ?
YES – Jesus Christ PROVED LIFE LIVES and our way to eternal life
Other early church fathers writing and speaking out against Gnostic teachings included Hippolytus (c170-236) and Tertullian (c 160-220). These early Church leaders made it clear to their congregations that these texts were in direct opposition to the teachings of Jesus, His Apostles, and the Church. No, there is nothing “secret” about these teachings — the early Church fathers new about these over 1,500 years ago, and were exposing these false and twisted teachings for precisely what they were
YES – the Roman Catholic Fathers hated the First Messianic Jews
Rome could not control – Born Again Christians led by the Spirit
Contrary to what The Da Vinci Code claims, these Gnostic texts are not evidence of an “alternative” Christianity.
The writings of James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas of the Nag Hammadi represent the theology of James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas – all Disciples of Jesus Christ
Gnostic Theology and demonology = Jewish Theology and demonology
Roman Christianity = the replacement theology
According to the Gnostic writings, the transcendent Father is utterly spiritual and had no contact with the created material world. In opposition to Him is the Creator of the physical world, and arrogant being who believes He is the one and only God, So in Gnosticism you have two opposing gods, both believing themselves to be immutable and all powerful.
R" What is your opinion of this ?
God of the sea vrs god in the sea
God of Creation vrs a created being
Gnostic Contest – NOT two gods in heaven locked in a cosmic battel
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Dave"
They were made by God for God – they are a deliberate part of the God’s Plan
There is only God’s Will – there is only God’s Plan
Everything was made by God – for a purpose
No created creature ever changed its own form and purpose
R" So you are saying the archon shedim are created asRA tempting creatures for man. That is their function. - OK
NOT RA - (yester ra)
D"When your Gnostic writings says "He sinned...." ?
1- arrogance – not transgression of a commandment
R" OK how can I verify this ? SHow me the original word under the word "sinned" and another Gnostic context that means something else?
Thanks to Rome – there is NONE
D" when you listen to a Rabbi speak – he assume you already know your scripture
R" I see. No wonder videos do not teach you....
You attend a college class in Calculus – and complain they are not discussing 2+2
Tell me, can you get your departed soul to come back to earth in a séance and allow it to talk via a medium to loved ones?
Saul did this for Samuel , so do Jews support this idea, and do you also? Can you speak to the souls after they have left their bodies?
D" If Saul did it for Samuel – then it is scripture – and YES I believe scripture
I would not presume to mock or deny the words of scripture
Why are you so comfortable doing so?
R" So is OK to speak to the spirits of dead people?
Who said it is OK = you asked if it is possible – scripture says it is possible
Scripture says NOT to speak or seek such wizards....so which Scriptures, line upon line, why are you inconsistent?
Sorry – sticks and stone can break my bones – but your word game cannot hurt me
Is that an appropriate school yard response between children?
Act 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
after his passion … speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God
Rome – and the Roman Index did their best to erase this information from history
Only hints of it existed – until 1945 and the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library
31/33 books inside the Library – only 11 claim heritage to James, John, Paul, peter, Phillip, or Thomas
Gnostic Christianity = True Empirical Science → Romans 1:19 (all creation witnesses to the Creator) Psalms 19:2 (even on the astrological scale) → Abraham → Moses → ahl (more than just the Torah) Jewish Theology → Jesus Christ as the Messiah → The Gospel → agl (the Roman Canon) + the Post-Resurrection teaching of Jesus to His disciples (James, John, Paul, peter, Phillip, or Thomas)
Robert is unable to factually or scripturally back up his satan doctrine –
so he must attempt to diminish those who reject his teaching
And questions me about this –
My response – sounds fun – easy peasy
www.gnosticdoctrine.com/2020/06/satan-devil.html
POINT – this web-site is not from a Gnostic source - it is from
The Restored Church of God,
Mr. Pack left the Worldwide Church of God in 1993, educating and leading the way for thousands who would follow.
Determined not to compromise his beliefs, Mr. Pack started The Restored Church of God in May 1999. Restored is a truly unique organization, unlike any other on Earth. Under his leadership, it proclaims a powerful and positive message, answering the greatest question on the minds of billions: What is the purpose of human existence? This requires special focus on the scriptural SOLUTIONS to the awful problems, troubles, evils and ills mankind has always faced, but which have grown much worse in the 21st century.
Mr. Pack’s and the Church’s materials address the everyday concerns of the average man and woman—and do so without soliciting funds, proselytizing or involvement in politics. All literature and programs are offered free of charge and in the public interest. Mr. Pack is dedicated to teaching the only path to world peace—the good news beyond today’s bad news. In this regard, he has produced or guided into production a vast reservoir of educational material for people of every age.
POINT – all I have done is study the text – I have never heard of this group until today
The theology of orthodox Christianity places the devil in juxtaposition with God. As the one is presented for worship as the source and embodiment of all good, so the other is held up for detestation and dread, as the instigator and promoter of all evil. Practically, the one is regarded in the light of the good God, and the other as the bad god. It is the polytheism of paganism ..
ABSOLUTLY AGREE! – The Great Controversy between to cosmic gods = denies the ONE TRUE GOD
The first thing we have to address is the definition of Satan. While fundamentalists will tell you that Satan was present in the Bible from the very foundations laid in Genesis, history tells us a different story. The words Satan, Devil, demon, Lucifer, fallen angel etc. simply don't occur in the whole of the book of Genesis. Throughout the Old Testament, the one and only God is presented as all powerful, without equal and in no competition with any other cosmic force. The Old Testament makes it clear that any 'adversary' to God's people was ultimately under the control of God Himself.
AGREE – that Catholic satan, Lucifer, Fallen Angels – were invented by Rome – NOT Jewish Theologfy
The period between the Old and New Testaments saw the production of a huge volume of Jewish literature advocating a personal Satan. Jewish writings speak of a figure called Beliar, a kind of personal Satan figure. The Book of Enoch and the story of the "watchers" became accepted as dogma amongst the Jews- i.e. that the "watcher" Angels had sinned and come to earth at the time of Genesis 6 and married beautiful women. Thus the Book Of Jubilees, dating from around 104 B.C., claims that God placed "over all nations and peoples, spirits in authority, to lead them astray" (15:31). Why would the righteous God place His people under the authority of those who would lead them astray- and then judge us for going astray? Jubilees 5:2 blames the flood on the fact that the earth was morally corrupt, but it claims that the animal creation also sinned and brought about the state of corruptness which required the destruction of the flood- thereby taking the spotlight off human sin as the sole cause for the flood.
ONLY IF YOU AGREE WITH bane elohiyn + woman demi-god hybrids
Again – the sin = reproduce after your own kind
The Bible clearly states that the suffering and disease that there is in the earth is a result of Adam's sin; but Jubilees claims that all such illnesses were a result of evil spirits,…
YES – Gen 3:14-19
The contest is between man and world + man and archon
YES – the archon can manipulate nature (wind, rain, fertility, disease)
YES – as each shedim demon presented himself to King Solomon – each has a specialty and each had a thing /plant / potion / spell / angel that could STOP THEM
"And we explained to Noah all the medicines of their diseases, together with their seductions, how he might heal them with herbs of the earth" (Jub. 10:12-13).
After the fall of the second temple Rabbinical scholars rejected all of the Enochian writings mentioning Satan as a literal, heavenly figure and fallen angels, and viewing Satan to symbolize evil inclination (malicious impulses) yetzer hara (Hebrew: יֵצֶר הַרַע)
INCORRECT – after the destruction of the Temple – the Rabbis discontinued to use Enoch because of its validation of the agl Gospel
Enoch Chapters 90 and on are all about the rapture – 2nd Coming of Christ – and the Four Horsemen of Revelation
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SATAN is a Hebrew word that has been transferred to the New Testament and to the English. It denotes an adversary, an opponent or an enemy. It has been translated seven times: “adversary”; five times: “be an adversary”; once each: “resist” and “to withstand”; nineteen times: “satan” (as in Numbers 22:22; Matthew 16:23).
The Accuser (often said by clergy to be Satan) in the Book of Job is literally an agent of the court, much like Prosecutors in the modern legal system. There’s no indication that this is a fallen angel. (One has to ask, how on earth did a fallen angel even appear before God if said fallen angel is supposed to be suffering in the fires of Hell?) The original Hebrew word HaSatan simply means adversary or accuser.
The first place where it occurs is Num. 22:22 :--"And God's anger was kindled because he (Balaam) went; and the angel of the Lord stood in the way for an adversary (SATAN) against him."
It next occurs in the same chapter, verse 32 :--
"And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? Behold, I went out to withstand (marg., to be AN ADVERSARY--a Satan to) thee."
In this case, Satan was a holy angel. Understanding "Satan" to mean adversary in its simple and general sense, we can see how this could be; but, understanding it as the evil being of popular belief, it would be a different matter.
Absolutely AGREE – Roman Catholicism makes into as different matter
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The following are other cases in which the word is translated "adversary," in the common version of the Scriptures:--
"Let him not go down with us to battle, lest in the battle he be an adversary (SATAN) to us" (1 Sam 29:4).
"And David said, What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zeruiah, that ye should this day be adversaries (SATANS) unto me?" (2 Sam 19:22).
"But now the Lord my God hath given me rest on every side, so that there is neither adversary (SATAN) nor evil occurrent" (1 Kings 5:4).
"And the Lord stirred up an adversary (SATAN) unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king's seed in Edom" (1 Kings 11:14).
"And God stirred him up another adversary (SATAN), Rezon, the son of Eliadah, which fled from his lord Hadadezer king of Zobah."
"And he was an adversary (SATAN) to Israel all the days of Solomon" (1 Kings 11:23, 25).
Matthew 16:23 - “But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of MEN.”
The foregoing literal definitions indicate certain characteristics applicable to mankind and NOT to a superhuman evil god of the lower regions.
These definitions indicate characteristics of mankind, NOT a superhuman evil god.
Sometimes satan – just means accuse/oppose – no more – no less
Gnostic teaching = I can be your satan – or you can be my satan – as Peter was to Christ
Also – I can be a Christ – you can be a Christ – by saving others – generating Fruit
Gnosticism is a call not to be satisfied with following Christ – but to be a Christ (A Born Again – Spirit led Christian)
The devil of popular opinion (the demigod of the lower region) cannot be found in the Hebrew Old testament writings.
The deceiving phase of mind in man that has fixed ideas in opposition to Truth (adversary, lier in wait, accuser, opposer, hater, an enemy). Satan assumes various forms in man's consciousness, among which may be mentioned egotism, a puffing up of the personality; and the opposite of this, self-deprecation, which admits the "accuser" into the consciousness. This "accuser" makes man believe that he is inherently evil.
Satan is the "Devil," a state of mind formed by man's personal ideas of his power and completeness and sufficiency apart from God devils/archon are 100% real – they fuel (yester ra) which results in man’s personal ideas
Besides at times puffing up the personality, this satanic thought often turns about and, after having tempted one to do evil, discourages the soul by accusing it of sin. Summed up, it is the state of mind in man that believes in its own sufficiency independent of its creative Source.
Guilt – is a result of “knowing better deep inside” (yester tov)
However – the archon can sure use this guilt against man - helping man to ne defeated /negative /insecure
Satan--The Adversary, the great universal negative whose power is derived from the unlawful expression of man's own being. I am the only one – I am arrogant – I am first
The serpent as "Satan" is sensation suggesting indulgence in pleasures beyond the law fixed by creative Mind.
YES – go ahead – indulge your physical senses beyond the Law -
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In the New Testament, the word DEVIL is derived from the Greek word ‘diabolos’ which literally means a slanderer, a false witness, or a liar, which can only apply to mankind and not to one of God’s heavenly hosts.
NOT CONSISTANT WITH SCRIPTURE – also NOT found within – James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, or Thomas of the Nag Hammadi
This is the Sethian view – the bane elohiym of Gen 6 = men – Jesus was just a man
As Jesus applied "Satan" to Peter, so he applied "devil" to Judas: "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is A DEVIL?" (John 6:70). Judas proved a liar, a betrayer, a false accuser, and, therefore, a devil. Paul, in 1 Tim 3:11, tells the wives of deacons not to be devils. His exhortation, it is true, does not appear in this form in the English version. The words, as translated, are "Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers (diabolous)." The same remark applies to 2 Tim 3:2, 3 "For men shall be... without natural affection, truce-breakers, false accusers (diaboloi)"; and to Titus 2:3: "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers (diabolous)."
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he (Jesus) also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might DESTROY him that had the power of death, THAT IS, THE DEVIL."
YES – we can all be called - satanas/ devils
On the supposition that the devil here referred to is the orthodox devil, or a personal devil of any kind, there are four absurdities on the face of this passage.
In the first place, to take on the weakness of flesh and blood was a strange way of preparing to fight a powerful devil, who, it would be imagined, would be more successfully encountered in the panoply of angelic strength, which Paul expressly says Jesus did not array himself in; for he says, "He took not on him the nature of angels" (Heb. 2:16).
Correct – took on Human Form – because salvation is for mankind
To be fully human in every sense of the word
God came to earth – incarnate – to walk in YOUR SHOES
In the second place it was stranger still that the process of destroying the devil should be submission to death himself! One would have thought that to vanquish and destroy the devil, life inextinguishable, and strength indomitable, would have been the qualification. Undoubtedly they would have been so, if, the Bible devil had been the orthodox devil--a personal monster.
All men die – thank to Eve – Rome 5:12
Jesus Christ had to die as all men die – to be fully human
life inextinguishable – eternal life is the Promise – John 3:16
In the third place, the devil ought now to be dead …
Sounds just like Robert – no need to read this
"He put away SIN by the sacrifice of himself" (Heb. 9:26).
"Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor 15:3).
"He was wounded for our transgressions; he was bruised for our iniquities" (Isa. liii, 5).
"His own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree" (2 Pet 2:24).
"He was manifested to take away OUR SINS" (1 John 3:5).
Christ, through death, destroyed, or took out of the way, "the sin of the world ". In this, he destroyed the Bible devil.
In this, he destroyed the Bible devil. = NOT SCRIPTURAL – NOT within – James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, or Thomas of the Nag Hammadi
When you receive your Divine Pardon – all the sin of this world is forgiven – ignored – forgotten
The Beast / archon / devils / satanas are OUR REAL STRUGGLE (Eph 6:12) – until Rev 20:11-15
He certainly did not destroy the popular devil in his death, for that devil is supposed to be still at large, but in his own person, as a representative man, he extinguished the power of sin by surrendering to its full consequences, and then escaping by resurrection, through the power of his own holiness, to live for evermore. This is described as "God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh" (Rom. viii, 3). Sin in the flesh, then, is the devil destroyed by Jesus in his death. This is the devil having the power of death, for it is sin, and nothing else but sin that causes death to men.
Anything that keeps you away from recognizing the One True God in your life – threatens your soul
Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
Does anyone doubt this ? Let him read the following testimonies:
By one man sin entered into the world, and death BY sin" (Rom. v, 12)
"By man CAME DEATH (I Cor. xv, 21).
"The wages of sin is DEATH" (Rom. vi, 23). "SIN hath reigned unto death" (Rom. v, 21). "SIN... bringeth forth death" (James i, 15). "The sting of death is SIN" (I Cor. xv, 56).
AGREED – Sin and DEATH were brought into the world by Eve (Adam and Eve)
The devil, a Bible synonym for sin - abstract and concrete - existing as the spirit of disobedience in the children of men and embodied and manifested in the persons and institutions of present order of things.
Hmmm? – synonym = a word game – OK as a sermon – NOT as a replacement for scripture
(1) a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language, for example shut is a synonym of close. - "“the East” was a synonym for the Soviet empire"
(2) a person or thing so closely associated with a particular quality or idea that the mention of their name calls it to mind.
the spirit of disobedience in the children of men and embodied and manifested in the persons
(yester ra) selfishness – selfish desire – lust – power – wealth – fame = the root of man’s error
(yester ra) = the biological instinct for self-preservation and the survival of the species
(yester ra) = go forth, be fruitful, and multiply – the commandment to all biology
(yester ra) = go forth, be fruitful, and multiply – AND DOMINATE - the commandment to man
Satan The devil is a personification of human nature this is not an abstraction but that physical principle of the animal nature, which is the cause of all its diseases, death, and resolution into dust. It is that in the flesh "which has the power of death" and it is called sin, because the development, or fixation, of this evil in the flesh, was the result of transgression. Inasmuch as this evil principle pervades every part of the flesh, the animal nature is styled "sinful flesh," that is, "flesh full of sin"; so that sin, in the sacred style, came to stand for the substance called man. In human flesh "dwells no good thing" (Rom. 7:17,18); and all the evil a man does is the result of this principle dwelling in him.
(yester ra) = go forth, be fruitful, and multiply – AND DOMINATE - the commandment to man
Same as Satan, which see. The "devil" signifies the mass of thoughts that have been built up in consciousness through many generations of earthly experiences and crystallized into what may be termed human personality, or carnal mind. Another name of the "devil" is sense consciousness; all the thoughts in one that fight against and are adverse to Truth belong to the state of mind that is known to metaphysicians as the Devil.
The "devil" is a state of consciousness adverse to the divine good. Other names for this state of consciousness are the Adversary, carnal mind, the accuser, and the old man. There is no personal devil. God is the one omnipresent Principle of the universe, and there is no room for any principle of evil, personified or otherwise.
Hmmm? – Blah blah blah
synonym = a word game – OK as a sermon – NOT as a replacement for scripture
The key word / phrase here = carnal mind = (yester ra) lust/desire for wold
Devil, how to overcome the-
The Devil is overcome by denying his existence and by affirming universal Christ love for God and all men.
Agree – expose them for who they are – stick them up on a pole for all to see
What was once evil and scary turned out to be just a snake in the grass (MEDICINE for fiery serpents)
The devils that we encounter are fear, anger, jealousy, and other similar negative traits, and they are in ourselves.
Authoritative Teaching - NHL
In this very way we exist in this world, like fish. The adversary spies on us, lying in wait for us like a fisherman, wishing to seize us, rejoicing that he might swallow us. For he places many foods before our eyes (things) which belong to this world. He wishes to make us desire one of them and to taste only a little, so that he may seize us with his hidden poison and bring us out of freedom and take us into slavery. For whenever he catches us with a single food, it is indeed necessary for us to desire the rest. Finally, then, such things become the food of death.
Now these are the foods with which the devil lies in wait for us. First he injects a pain into your heart until you have heartache on account of a small thing of this life, and he seizes (you) with his poisons. And afterward (he injects) the desire of a tunic, so that you will pride yourself in it, and love of money, pride, vanity, envy that rivals another envy, beauty of body, fraudulence. The greatest of all these are ignorance and ease.
Now all such things the adversary prepares beautifully and spreads out before the body, wishing to make the mind of the soul incline her toward one of them and overwhelm her, like a hook, drawing her by force in ignorance, deceiving her until she conceives evil, and bears fruit of matter, and conducts herself in uncleanness, pursuing many desires, covetousnesses, while fleshly pleasure draws her in ignorance.
But the soul - she who has tasted these things - realized that sweet passions are transitory. She had learned about evil; she went away from them and she entered into a new conduct. Afterwards she despises this life, because it is transitory.
Christ gives us the power to cast out these devils, thereby cleansing our consciousness.
Agreed
Who is Satan in Gnosticism?
If we take, for example, the Valentinian Gnostic cosmogony, the Christian notion of Satan doesn’t come into play at all.
CORRECT – NOT CATHOLIC SATAN – but Jewish Belzeebul and the shedim / the Beast and his archon
According to the sethian Gnostics The God of the Jews and the Christians is either Yaldabaoth or Sabaoth the ill-begotten son of Sophia
Bingo - Sethian Gnostics – NOT James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas from the Nag Hammadi
In contrast, Ptolemy, and other Valentinians steadfastly maintained that "the creation is not due to a god who corrupts but to one who is just and hates evil" (Letter to Flora 3:6). He carefully distinguished the Demiurge from both God and the Devil. According to Ptolemy, "he is essentially different from these two (God and the Devil) and is between them, he is rightly given the name, Middle" (Letter to Flora 7:4). He is "neither good nor evil and unjust, can properly be called just , since he is the arbitrator of the justice which depends on him" (Letter to Flora 7:5)
In the gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Philip Satan and the devil never appear. Correct – they speak of the archon
however the devil appeas once in the Gospel of Truth
Who cares – NOT James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, or Thomas from the Nag Hammadi
To be “a dwelling-place for the devil” implies that the Devil enters us. “The lusts of other (sinful) things entering in” (Mk. 4:19) cause us to sin. Our lusts are described several times as physically moving into our heart from our evil nature where they are stored "an evil man brings forth evil things from his evil storehouse, which is in his heart, and says evil things. For out of the abundance of the heart he brings forth evil things." (Gospel of Thomas Saying 45)
evil things from his evil storehouse, which is in his heart = (yester ra)
The Gospel of Philip like the book of Isaiah (45:7) does not see good and evil as cosmic opposites instead—“light and dark, life and death, good and evil”—are in reality pairs of interdependent terms in which each implies the other.
Isa 45:5 I am Adonai—there is no other. Besides Me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not known Me,
Isa 45:6 so they may know, from the rising to the setting of the sun, that there is no one besides Me. I am Adonai—there is no other.
Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things.
Isa 45:8 “Rain down, O heavens, from above, and let the clouds pour down justice. Let the earth open up, let salvation sprout, and righteousness spring up with it. I, Adonai, have created it.”
Philip, on the other hand, interprets the human inclination to sin without recourse to Satan
(yester ra) = selfishness – lust – desire – greed – for the world
The gospel of Thomas and Philip teach that within each person's heart lies the root of wickedness. This is Philip’s interpretation of the traditional Jewish teaching of the yetzer hara, which the rabbis called the “evil inclination.” So long as we remain unaware of “the root of evil” within us, Philip says, “it is powerful; but when it is recognized, it is destroyed.”
YES – knowledge is power – KNOW YOUR ENEMY
Example – I am 18 preaching the Gospel – yet the girl I am witnessing to gives me an errection
(yester ra) = lust – desire – survival of the species
(yester tov) = be a Christian and lust NOT
(yester ra) = see what a sinner you are – bad Christian – feel guilty - feel wrong – apologies
Gnostic = I am animal – God already knows that – stop apologizing and praise the Grace that forgives
45. Jesus said, "Grapes are not harvested from thorn trees, nor are figs gathered from thistles, for they yield no fruit. Good persons produce good from what they've stored up; bad persons produce evil from the wickedness they've stored up in their hearts, and say evil things. For from the overflow of the heart they produce evil." DUH
The Root of Evil
Let each of us also dig down after the root of evil within us and pull it out of our hearts from the root. It will be uprooted if we recognize it. But if we are ignorant of it, it takes root in us and produces fruit in our hearts. It dominates us. We are its slaves, and it takes us captive so that we do what we do [not] want and do [not] do what we want. [cf. Rom. 7:14—15] It is powerful because we do not recognize it. As long as [it] exists, it stays active.
Gospel of Thomas - NHL
(68) Jesus said, "Blessed are you when you are hated and persecuted. Wherever you have been persecuted they will find no place."
(69) Jesus said, "Blessed are they who have been persecuted within themselves. It is they who have truly come to know the father. Blessed are the hungry, for the belly of him who desires will be filled."
(70) Jesus said, "That which you have will save you if you bring it forth from yourselves. That which you do not have within you will kill you if you do not have it within you."
Essential to gnosis is to “know” one’s own potential for evil. According to Philip, recognizing evil within oneself is necessarily an individual process:
This is personal for me
As a manic depressive - I have been wrong more than once
and so to identify acts that spring from the “root of evil,” which consists in such impulses as anger, lust, envy, pride, and greed.
All = (yester ra)
This teacher assumes that when one recognizes that a certain act derives from such sources, one loses the conviction needed to sustain the action. In order to do evil— whether to indulge in an angry tirade, commit murder, or declare aggressive war—one seems to require the illusion that one’s action is justified, that one is acting for right reasons.
YES - every time i was wrong _ i was only thinking of ME - My feelings - My expectations - My needs - My desires
YES - at the moment I feel both justified and offended - in the right
But I learned to journal - I write when I am upset - next week when I re-read it
I just seem petty and selfish
This author holds, then, the optimistic conviction that “truth ... is more powerful than ignorance of error.”90 Knowing the truth in this way involves more than an intellectual process; it involves transformation of one’s being, transformation of one’s way of living: “If we know the truth, we shall find its fruits within us; if we join ourselves with it, we shall receive our fulfillment
no one can dictate to another what is good or evil; instead, each one must strive to recognize his or her own inner state,
Sometimes - another's apparent ra = facilitating God's Will on earth
Gen 50:20 Yes, you yourselves planned evil against me. God planned it for good, in order to bring about what it is this day—to preserve the lives of many people.
Rob asks Dave" I found this, and the Gnostic view of Satan, is that God is our Satan, our Adversary who does the bad along with the good? Is this what the Author is saying?
WHAT? - NONESENSE - ROBERT'S SLANDER
The Gnostics ... disagree …
R" What is your opinion of this ?
Two groups – Valentinus – that taught spirituality
Sethians – spirit denies – only world – only grave
But the majority Gnostic position was one that modern scholars call “separationism:” the idea that Jesus did have a material body, but that his body and his spirit were two separate entities, such that no matter how many pains were inflicted on his body, his spirit never suffered.[19] This made perfect sense within the Gnostics’ sharply dualistic worldview, wherein spirit and matter were categorically different, and even opposing, phenomena.
R" What is your opinion of this ?
Matter and spirit are two different things
Jesus = the Son of Man – 100% human – 100% flesh of biology – with its (yester ra)
Christ = the Son of God – God incarnate – the Image of God – the definition of (yester tov)
Jesus Christ = (Son of Man / flesh / biology / yester ra) + (Son of God = Christ the only begotten = God incarnate = the Image of God – yester tov)
In this view, the heavenly being Christ temporarily entered into and took over the body of the man Jesus. The Gnostic text Three Forms of First Thought declares that a divine power “put on Jesus” like a garment. The Second Treatise of the Great Seth has Christ say, “I approached a bodily dwelling and evicted the previous occupant, and I went in.”
R" What is your opinion of this ?
The Second Treatise of the Great Seth - NHL
I visited a bodily dwelling. I cast out the one who was in it first, and I went in. And the whole multitude of the archons became troubled. And all the matter of the archons, as well as all the begotten powers of the earth, were shaken when it saw the likeness of the Image, since it was mixed. And I am the one who was in it, not resembling him who was in it first. For he was an earthly man, but I, I am from above the heavens. I did not refuse them even to become a Christ, but I did not reveal myself to them in the love which was coming forth from me. I revealed that I am a stranger to the regions below.
(1) as the title suggest – this is a Sethian Document
(2) this is the very basis of the Arian Controversy that resulted in the Nicaean Creed
Was Jesus Christ always (Jesus)+(Christ)
Or did Jesus become (Jesus)+( Christ) – when the Holy Spirit descended upon Him as a dove
The Gnostics answered that blood, and more broadly the material nature of which blood is a part, was precisely what the savior had come to earth to save us from. In the words of the Gospel of Philip, Christ “came to crucify the world.”[39] And he succeeded, even though the archons, the demonic rulers of the world, tried and failed to crucify him to stop his mission.
YES – by trying to stop Jesus – they opened the Age of the Gentile
Gen 50:20 Yes, you yourselves planned evil against me. God planned it for good, in order to bring about what it is this day—to preserve the lives of many people.
By descending into the material world and overcoming it by surviving the death of his body, the Gnostic Christ enabled others to overcome it and achieve a spiritual resurrection (gnosis) as well.[40] As the Gnostic Treatise on Resurrection puts it, “The Savior swallowed death. … When he laid aside the perishable world, he exchanged it for an incorruptible eternal realm. He arose and swallowed the visible through the invisible, and thus he granted us the way to our immortality.”
R" What is your opinion of this ?
YES – Jesus Christ PROVED LIFE LIVES and our way to eternal life
Other early church fathers writing and speaking out against Gnostic teachings included Hippolytus (c170-236) and Tertullian (c 160-220). These early Church leaders made it clear to their congregations that these texts were in direct opposition to the teachings of Jesus, His Apostles, and the Church. No, there is nothing “secret” about these teachings — the early Church fathers new about these over 1,500 years ago, and were exposing these false and twisted teachings for precisely what they were
YES – the Roman Catholic Fathers hated the First Messianic Jews
Rome could not control – Born Again Christians led by the Spirit
Contrary to what The Da Vinci Code claims, these Gnostic texts are not evidence of an “alternative” Christianity.
The writings of James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas of the Nag Hammadi represent the theology of James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas – all Disciples of Jesus Christ
Gnostic Theology and demonology = Jewish Theology and demonology
Roman Christianity = the replacement theology
According to the Gnostic writings, the transcendent Father is utterly spiritual and had no contact with the created material world. In opposition to Him is the Creator of the physical world, and arrogant being who believes He is the one and only God, So in Gnosticism you have two opposing gods, both believing themselves to be immutable and all powerful.
R" What is your opinion of this ?
God of the sea vrs god in the sea
God of Creation vrs a created being
Gnostic Contest – NOT two gods in heaven locked in a cosmic battel
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Dave"
They were made by God for God – they are a deliberate part of the God’s Plan
There is only God’s Will – there is only God’s Plan
Everything was made by God – for a purpose
No created creature ever changed its own form and purpose
R" So you are saying the archon shedim are created as
NOT RA - (yester ra)
D"When your Gnostic writings says "He sinned...." ?
1- arrogance – not transgression of a commandment
R" OK how can I verify this ? SHow me the original word under the word "sinned" and another Gnostic context that means something else?
Thanks to Rome – there is NONE
D" when you listen to a Rabbi speak – he assume you already know your scripture
R" I see. No wonder videos do not teach you....
You attend a college class in Calculus – and complain they are not discussing 2+2
Jul 3, 2022 4:06:36 GMT -5 @robertt said:
Tell me, can you get your departed soul to come back to earth in a séance and allow it to talk via a medium to loved ones?
Saul did this for Samuel , so do Jews support this idea, and do you also? Can you speak to the souls after they have left their bodies?
D" If Saul did it for Samuel – then it is scripture – and YES I believe scripture
I would not presume to mock or deny the words of scripture
Why are you so comfortable doing so?
R" So is OK to speak to the spirits of dead people?
Who said it is OK = you asked if it is possible – scripture says it is possible
Scripture says NOT to speak or seek such wizards....so which Scriptures, line upon line, why are you inconsistent?
Sorry – sticks and stone can break my bones – but your word game cannot hurt me
Is that an appropriate school yard response between children?
