D"Adam and Eve were created eternal and immortal – they would never have to die either death
If they were not – God Commandment of Gen 2:17 means nothing
R" You say complete nonsense.You can mock God if you choose – I will not
Sounds like they became mortal?
YES - started as immortal and became mortal - I agreeRom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.
Than you add Gen 2:17, not to eat fruit from a tree of dying. This proves they could sin.
If something is immortal, it cannot sin either.Correct and all three statements1- Adam and Eve were created with (yester ra) just as all biology – proves they could be selfish
Your teaching that Eve never had (yester ra) until she chose it – is BUSTEDBy your own words
The more you talk - the more you contradict yourself
It’s that academic honesty thing biting you in the ass
You say Adam and Eve were created eternal and immortal? So me the Hebrew texts that say this?Gen 2:17 But of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you must not eat. For when you eat from it, you most assuredly will die!”
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Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
You quote this, but do not translate it back to Hebrew.IT WAS WRITTEN IN GREEK – to a Greek speaking population
How about doing that for your readers, and show them the Hebrew word behind this fuzzy translation?All depends on the Hebrew word the modern translator choosesGrk#:165 / ahee-ohn (noun): Age Freq:&128
Heb#:5769 עולם / o-lam (noun): Distant— A far off place
as hidden beyond the horizon. A far off time as hidden
from the present; the distant past or future. A place or
time that cannot be perceived.
So correctly they write "olam" here, you "live for olam", but I went through verses (3 of them) and you failed to discuss....as brevity Dave does.... Olam - The Jewish Chronicle
Olam has a diverse set of meanings, including, world, existence, lifetime and eternity. As is often the case in Hebrew, the etymology of the word suggests the link between its different senses; olam comes from alam, a verb meaning to hide or conceal. Mar 6, 2009
hebrew.jerusalemprayerteam.org/eternal-everlasting/The word Ne•tzach is an abstract noun, and it has exactly the same meaning in biblical and modern Hebrew. It means “eternity” and is used as a time description for an everlasting time span.
www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/eternal/1. `Olam:
In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word `olam is used for "eternity," sometimes in the sense of unlimited duration, sometimes in the sense of a cycle or an age, and sometimes, in later Hebrew, in the signification of world. The Hebrew `olam has, for its proper New Testament equivalent, aion, as signifying either time of particular duration, or the unending duration of time in general.
2. Aion, Aionios:
In the New Testament, aion and aionios are often used with the meaning "eternal," in the predominant sense of futurity. The word aion primarily signifies time, in the sense of age or generation; it also comes to denote all that exists under time- conditions; and, finally, superimposed upon the temporal is an ethical use, relative to the world's course
Olam = aionios – in John 3:16 = Case: Accusative (direct object; motion toward; time: "how long")
Number: Singular, Gender: Feminine
G166 - αἰώνιος - From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting,
jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8092-immortality-of-the-soul#sts=IMMORTALITY%20OF%20THE%20SOUL%20(late%20Hebrew,
As a matter of fact, eternal life was ascribed exclusively to God and to celestial beings who "eat of the tree of life and live forever" (Gen. iii. 22, Hebr.), whereas man by being driven out of the Garden of Eden was deprived of the opportunity of eating the food of immortality (see Roscher, "Lexikon der Griechischen und Römischen Mythologie," s.v. "Ambrosia").
All depends on the Hebrew word the modern translator chooses--------------
olam comes from alam, a verb meaning to hide or conceal.
A far off time as hidden
from the present; the distant past or future. A place or
time that cannot be perceived.FYI – why hidden?Answer – there is only the seen and the unseen
Answer - there is only the physical and heavens
Answer - there is only here and Hades
Definition of Hades = the unseen
All the dead go to Hades – the good and the bad
DOES NOT MEAN ROMAN HELL--------------
D"YES – as a mortal – proof that death was always a part of Adam and Eve – they need the tree
R" Well if they needed the tree how come you wrote" D"Adam and Eve were created eternal and immortal – they would never have to die either death"
Because without – Gen 3:6 Rom 5:12 they would have always had access to your Tree of Life
Are YOU forgetting there are two trees?------------
D"DUH – these are the Nephilim
R" Oh so the nephilim are still living among us today, 4 or 5 thousand years old? Like Satan is, that old?
I thought this word just means giants, like Joshua saw some giants in his day? Dig up fossils, how many giants are dead and buried, nothing about living forever as you claim?
Would you accept the Dead Sea Scrolls as proof –
your gauntlet to meBook of Enoch Chapter 151. And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. 2. And go, say to ⌈⌈the Watchers of heaven⌉⌉, who have sent thee to intercede ⌈⌈for them: "You should intercede"⌉⌉ for men, and not men for you: 3. Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? 4. Andthough ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those ⌈also⌉ do who die and perish. 5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6. But you were ⌈formerly⌉ spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. 8. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men, ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; ⌈they shall be evil spirits on earth, and⌉ evil spirits shall they be called. [10. As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] 11. And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, ⌈but nevertheless hunger⌉ and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded ⌈from them⌉.
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D"For you the promise is NOT - perpetual: - eternal - forever, - everlasting since creation
R" correct, the promise is conditional , if you remain in a relationship with GOD.Why do you deny scripture – why do you deny the inspired word of God
The only condition - belief
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D"THE CHALLENGE TO YOU – was to provide a pre-Romen documentation of your Ezk 28 Fallen Angel doctrine
YOU HAVE NOT – BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT
R" I could counter you as well, show me a Jew in the BC era supporting the word "archon"SO EASYDeu 32:17 They sacrificed to demons, a non-god, gods they had not known—to new ones who came in lately, ones your fathers had not dreaded.
Deu 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
Psa 106:37 They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons.
Psa 106:37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
Jerusalem Bible – Masoretic text = Isa 34:14 "Wild cats will meet hyenas there, satyr will call to satyr, there Lilith too will lurk and find somewhere to rest."
New Revised Standard Version – Isa 34:14 14 Wildcats shall meet with hyenas; goat-demons shall call to each other; there also Lilith shall repose and find a place to rest.
New American Bible – Isa 34:14 14Wildcats shall meet with desert beasts, satyrs* shall call to one another; There shall the lilith repose, and find for herself a place to rest.
(wiki) also
night-owl (Young, 1898)
night spectre (Rotherham, Emphasized Bible, 1902)
night monster (ASV, 1901; JPS 1917, Good News Translation, 1992; NASB, 1995)
vampires (Moffatt Translation, 1922; Knox Bible, 1950)
night hag (Revised Standard Version, 1947)
(the) night-demon Lilith, evil and rapacious (The Message (Bible), Peterson, 1993)
night creature (New International Version, 1978; New King James Version, 1982; New Living Translation, 1996, Today's New International Version)
nightjar (New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, 1984)
night bird (English Standard Version, 2001)
night-bird (NASB, 2020)
nocturnal animals (New English Translation (NET Bible))
Jewish tradition
Major sources in Jewish tradition regarding Lilith in chronological order include:
40–10 BC Dead Sea Scrolls – Songs for a Sage (4Q510–511)
Would you accept the Dead Sea Scrolls as proof –
your gauntlet to meBook of Enoch found complete with the Dead Sea Scrolls
An entire Book all about the Watchers / shedim / archon / demons / Jinn
Jdg 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
Jdg 2:2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this?
Jdg 2:3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
The ‘other gods’ mentioned in the Old Testament
Adrammelech (2 Kings 17:7-37; 19:12-37)
Anammelech (2 Kings 17:7-37)
Ashima (2 Kings 17:30)
Ashtoreth (Judges 10:6-16; 1 Samuel 7:3-4, 12:10, 31:10; 1 Kings 11:2-33)
Baal (Numbers 25:3; Judges 10:6-32; 1 Samuel 7:3-4, 12:10; I Kings 16:31-32, 18:18-40; II Kings 10:18-28; II Kings 11:18; Jeremiah 19:4-13, 23:13-27, 32:29-35)
Baalberith, aka Baal (Judges 8:27-33; 9:4-46)
Baalim, aka Baal (Judges 2:3-19, 3:6-7; I Kings 18:18-40; II Chronicles 17:3-6, 24:7-18, 33:3-19, 34:3-25; Hosea 2:8-17, 11:2)
Baalpeor, aka Baal (Numbers 25:1-5: Deuteronomy 4:3-28; Psalms 106:28-39; Hosea 9:10)
Baell, another non-Biblical name for Baal,
Bel (Jeremiah 51:44)
Chemosh (Numbers 21:29; Judges 11:24; 1 Kings 11:2-33; II Kings 3:5, 23:4-20; Jeremiah 48:7-46)
Dagon (Judges 16:23; 1 Samuel 5:2-7)
Kaiwan or Kiyyun (Amos 5:26)
Molech (Leviticus 20:2-3; I Kings 11:2-33; II Kings 23:4-20; 2 Chr. 28:3, 33:6; Jeremiah 7:31, 19:2–6, 32:35)
Nebo (Isaiah 46:1)
Nehushtan (Numbers 21:4-9; 2 Kings 18:4)
Nibhaz (2 Kings 17:31)
Nisroch (2 Kings 19:12-37; Isaiah 37:12-38)
Rimmon (2 Kings 5:17-18;)
A Syrian god mentioned rarely by name in scripture and is most likely just another name for the god Baal.
Sakkuth or Sikkuth (Amos 5:26)
Succoth-benoth (2 Kings 17:7-37; 2 Kings 18:11)
Tammuz (Ezekiel 8:14-15).Tartak (2 Kings 17:31)
The Queen of Heaven (Jeremiah 7:18, 44:17-25)
(google)
What is inside the Kaaba?The Kaaba “represents the metaphorical house of God and the oneness of God in Islam”, according to Haaretz, but there is very little inside the building.
Pre-Islamic groups followed many gods and stored idols and statues within the Kaaba. Muslims believe that in the seventh century, God told Mohammad to “restore the Kaaba to the worship of one God only”, says the BBC.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica: “When Mohammed’s forces conquered Mecca in 630, he ordered the destruction of the pagan idols housed in the shrine and ordered it cleansed of all signs of polytheism. The Kaaba has since been the focal point of Muslim piety.”
The Koran does not say these 'other gods' are not real - Just says Allah is their supreme commander(google) How many gods were in the Kaaba?In all, there are said to be three hundred sixty idols housed in and around the Kaaba, representing every god recognized in the Arabian Peninsula.
FYI for correlation - Apocryphon of John – NHL"And the archons created seven powers for themselves, and the powers created for themselves six angels for each one until they became 365 angelsD"THE CHALLENGE TO YOU – was to provide a pre-Roman documentation of your Ezk 28 Fallen Angel doctrine
YOU HAVE NOT – BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT
R" I could counter you as well, show me a Jew in the BC era supporting the word "archon"All your talk of Torah and Hebrew
Why do you completely dismiss the ahl/OT?
Why do you deny the demonology of the Jews and replace it with Catholic doctrine? D"Before Rome – Jewish demonology = Belzebul and the shedim
R" NO so Dave, these only came from the exile to Babylon, there is no origin mentioned in Moses torah,
the serpent is just mentioned....no origin,
King Solomon = 990-931 BC
Babylonian exile = March 16, 597 BC
King Solomon predated the Babylonian exile by 300 years
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R" Or show me a Jew who understood "amanuah" in Elohiym? in the BC era?
How many Jews understand "amanuah", still waiting for you?
If you doubt Moses or Joseph or Joshua had faith – you are just sick---------------
www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1398519/jewish/Emunah.htmWhat Is Emunah?
Here is typical dribble, hard to read and fathom, what is this saying to you?
What do Jews do with this word daily in their life? I read nothing here?You are a grown man – it is time you learn to read English
Over and over I argue that you have poor reading comprehension skills What it is
Generally translated as faith.
We’re used to thinking of faith as a strategy for people who can’t think for themselves. YES – belief is the tool of the gullible"The fool believes everything," Solomon writes, "the wise man understands." Emunah, however, is an innate convictionINNATE = inborn; natural.YES – we are all born with the foreknowledge of God – the memory of God – (yester tov) Nevertheless, emunah is not based on reason. So too, emunah endures even when reason can't catch up.Correct – belief is INTANGIBLE – you cannot touch it – you just believe itHow to test for it
The litmus test would be a case of martyrdom. This world is an illusion – the opportunity to go home and witness for the Lord at the same time
Who is being beheaded in the Middle East for their faith – Jews or Christians?How to get it
As we said, emunah is innate, YES – inborn- natural – inherent to spiritual existenceyet it may be enhanced through study, experience and reason. YES – you can grow in your belief with study – because the more you remember
The more you study Ellen White the more you believe her
The more you study Joseph Smith the more you believe him
The more you study me - the more you wil be influenced by me
Gnostic = study it all THUS WHY SCRIPTURE SAYS
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Gnostic = study it all Rome 1:19-20 + Psa 19:2Scientist everywhere are waking up to the Intelligent Design
Physicist and their non-linear time - only validates scripture
Geneticist everywhere reject evolution and embace an Intelligent Design
Evolution's suggested ORDER - only validates Gen 1 - Oops!Gen 50:20 And as for you, ye meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
Evolutionist tried their best to deny God - but end up validating the order of Creation!Gnostic = Recognise what is in your sightempowering human reason to glimpse into the transcendent realm of emunah.YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN TRANSCENDANCEYet the greatest vitamin you can provide emunah is plain exercise. You teach this experience = word games in a language you cannot read
Jews and Gnostic Christians say the experience comes from (Jer 1:5 – doing your job)Your job here has always been to support Catholic satan