Is Jesus God?

[Dave]

Apr 27, 2022 16:37:42 GMT -5 @robertt said:

Three "el" are divine
1) el shadday, who functions as the HS
2)el ab aslo known as most high el, who functions as a father
3) el yashuah, also known as micha "el", who functions as a son

John 1:1 How the Greek text argues that Jesus is God (and why it doesn't mean "Jesus is a God")

AGREE 100% - every word – this is very east Greek – 1st year - elementary

Joh 1:1 ᾿Εν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.

In beginning - correct there is no (the) – un-necessary because there is only one beginning

(καὶ) - Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος – is a PREDICATE NOMINATIVE

English examples:
I am Dave
In a predicate nominative – the LINKING VERB = a BEING VERB =
I am Dave – same as – Dave = me – same as – I = Dave

In Greek – because ὁ Λόγος has the article it is the subject

English example
Bill is the butcher – in English comes out as – The butcher, Bill,

In Greek ὁ Λόγος = Θεὸς –or- Θεὸς = ὁ Λόγος

So – In Greek = In the one and only beginning - The Word is God –or- God is the Word
--------------------

In the one and only beginning - The Word is God –or- God is the Word
+ καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν

And – The Word (subject of clause) was/is -being verb- πρός – the God (accusitive = DO)

G4314 – πρός - A strengthened form of G4253; a preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward MOVEMENT (with the genitive case the side of, that is, pertaining to; with the dative case by the side of, that is, near to; usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, that is, whither or for which it is predicated): - about, according to, against, among, at, because of, before, between, ([where-]) by, for, X at thy house, in, for intent, nigh unto, of, which pertain to, that, to (the end that), + together, to ([you]) -ward, unto, with (-in). In compounds it denotes essentially the same applications, namely, motion towards, accession to,

a preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward = MOVEMENT
the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation
God = space/time
God = movement – forward toward
God = the occasion (creation)
God = the destination of the relation

So – In Greek = In the one and only beginning - The Word is God –or- God is the Word
+ God = space/time - movement (physics uses the term distance)
-------------------

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 Καὶ ὁ Λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. We looked upon His glory, the glory of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth.

In the one and only beginning –
The Word is God - God is the Word
God = space/time - movement (physics uses the term distance)
And the Word became Flesh

Christian Trinity – NOT 3 different gods
------------------


Jesus is God: How Greek supports the deity of Christ
------------------

PROOF THAT PAUL WROTE GREEK


Bible Translations: here's what they hide from you

Paul is hard to translate – example Paul makes up Greek words
These words do not exist in Hebrew – the idea they express are not in Hebrew

I ask Robert – what do these words mean to a Christian?
I ask Robert – what do these words mean to a Born Again Christian?

[Deleted]

I will watch these videos later,,

big post of yours, need time, many hours in fact.

One question before I go...

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Immrah, and the Immrah was with Elohiym, and the Immrah was Elohiym.

Most Jews see Imrah as the correct Hebrew word, not Dabar.

Pr 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
5 Every word (imrah) of God (eloah) is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him

Question: Who is the ruwach, the son, the son's name, the imrah and the eloah here?

The What is His Sons's name, implies a Father as well?

I am interested in your understanding of immrah, something NOT considered in the Greek videos. ( a prediction I make already)

Shalom


OK watched all three videos

Video 1: John 1:1 Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,

A Noun , The Noun, quality to another noun

9:41 The video author is saying there are at least two persons in the Godhead.


Rob" He says there are at least two persons in the Godhead. This is a typical SDA saying, and is not supporting your view at all, as I understand you, saying the Father and the Son are expressions. Meaning the Son is a expression of the Father, is NOT what this speaker is saying.


Video 2, recognize the deity of Christ.

We are saved only by Christ.

We must believe Jesus is God.

The granville Sharp Rule

article kai article, refers to the same thing

doesn't apply to plurals

doesn't apply to personal names

Ep 6:21 beloved brother/ and/ faithful servant

so the brother and servant same parallel

Rev 22:8 John hearing/ and /seeing

Phil 2:25 brother/ and/ worker/ and my fellow solider

titus 2:13 theos/ kai/ saviour

R" I have no problem with Jesus as divinity. Fully divine for that matter. Jesus is both our Saviour and ELohiym.

But as the speaker in video says there are at least two persons within the Godhead. 




video 3: Paul makes up words, no equivalent greek word.

Ephesians 1: 20 in heavenly places

Eph 2: verse 6 sunegeiro made up word.... seated us in the heavenly places.

5:34 "Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father"

idea of unity, talking about unity shared between Jews and Gentiles, created as one new man in Jesus.

EPh 3:6 into Christo "in Jesus"


R" He says Paul makes up new Greek words, not normally found in Greek eg "sunegeiro made up word"


Dave asks" Paul is hard to translate – example Paul makes up Greek words

These words do not exist in Hebrew – the idea they express are not in Hebrew

R" The speaker does not say this, you are making things up. 

rk#:1453  / eg-i-ro (verb): Rise Freq:&141

Heb#:6965 קום / qum (verb): Rise—To assume an

upright position; to raise or rise up; to continue or

establish.

Heb#:7311 רום / rum (verb): Raise—To lift something up.


sunegeiro is made up from H1453 and some other Hebrew word,  G4862 to Hebrew ??

The idea to raise up 

Eph 2:6 And Jesus has  raised us up together,

SOunds Hebrew to me, 

what's the problem, Dave and what are you getting at.



Shalom

PS  I r3ead Darrly Burling's website? Is this the right spelling?

I quote " The glorious truth of the New Testament is that Christ Himself is our life. We cannot have life without Christ, which is why John said, “He who has the Son has the life” (1 John 5:12). This is also why we have the indwelling Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn’t come primarily to empower us, to give us good feelings, to enable us to speak in tongues, to give us power or to give us freedom. The Holy Spirit mediates the life of Christ to us. Hence, if we do not have the Spirit of Christ, we do not belong to Him (Rom 8:9). This is why we had to die to the law (and to the world) so that we could be joined to Christ (Rom 7:4).

My words exactly, when you amanuah Jesus, you grow using His power, and His spirit becomes your spirit. 
This passage of the speaker of the videos is not supporting Dave's view, where you develop your spirit in communion with Jesus spirit. No it is saying we must by faith allow our old spirit to die, and be replaced with the spirit of Jesus, we mediate the life of Jesus in us.

Shalom

[Dave]

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Immrah, and the Immrah was with Elohiym, and the Immrah was Elohiym.

Most Jews see Imrah as the correct Hebrew word, not Dabar.
THE CORRECT WORD = LOGOS

Heraclitus - 500 B.C. – all matter is held together by the Logos
Give me Hebrew teaching that says Imrah does this?

5 Every word (imrah) of God (eloah) is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him
Question: Who is the ruwach, the son, the son's name, the imrah and the eloah here?
YES – John 1:1 Word = God = Christ = Holy Spirit – all pure
And – the written word of God – all pure

9:41 The video author is saying there are at least two persons in the Godhead.
STOP IT – back up to 7:40 and listed to the whole paragraph
TRINITY - 3 persons

Rob" He says there are at least two persons in the Godhead. This is a typical SDA saying, and is not supporting your view at all, as I understand you, saying the Father and the Son are expressions. Meaning the Son is a expression of the Father, is NOT what this speaker is saying.
Tire of your word games

John 1:1 Word = God = Christ = Holy Spirit = ONLY ONE TRUE GOD
All arguments trying to support a pantheon of multiple gods is REJECTED
--------------

video 3: Paul makes up words, no equivalent greek word.
Ephesians 1: 20 in heavenly places
Eph 2: verse 6 sunegeiro made up word.... seated us in the heavenly places.

idea of unity, talking about unity shared between Jews and Gentiles, created as one new man in Jesus.
What is your point – don’t you believe in the remarriage of Israel to Judah? The return of the Northern Kingdoms. The Age of the gentile

enduringword.com/bible-commentary/jeremiah-3/
(11-13) God tells Jeremiah to invite Israel to return and find mercy.
Then the LORD said to me, “Backsliding Israel has shown herself more righteous than treacherous Judah. Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say:

‘Return, backsliding Israel,’ says the LORD;

‘I will not cause My anger to fall on you.
For I am merciful,’ says the LORD;
‘I will not remain angry forever.
Only acknowledge your iniquity,
That you have transgressed against the LORD your God,
And have scattered your charms
To alien deities under every green tree,
And you have not obeyed My voice,’ says the LORD.”

a. Backsliding Israel has shown herself more righteous than treacherous Judah: This is a startling statement, considering how deeply the northern kingdom of Israel gave themselves to idols. Nevertheless, we can think of several reasons why Judah’s sin was even worse.

· Judah had the example of Israel to learn from, an advantage that Israel did not have.

· Judah was closer to the temple and center of true worship.

· Judah had better and more spiritual kings than Israel.

· Judah’s problem was treachery and the pretense of repentance; Israel was more honest in their sin.

b. Return, backsliding Israel: God told Jeremiah to invite Israel – though they were scattered in exile throughout the Assyrian empire – to return to Him. The key to their return was this: Only acknowledge your iniquity. This honesty was what Judah lacked and was the key to Israel’s restoration to right relationship.

i. Return, backsliding Israel: “The ‘backslider’ (turn away) is invited to ‘come back’ (turn back).” (Thompson) The sense is something like, “Slide back to Me, backslider.”

ii. Here, there is no promise that God would restore the northern kingdom to its land and realm. Instead, the promise seems to be of restored relationship with Yahweh, their covenant God.

iii. The sense seems to be, “Judah has not repented honestly, only in pretense. Perhaps Israel will honestly repent if I invite them.”

iv. “‘Alas,’ says one, ‘I do not know whether I am a backslider, or whether I have been a hypocrite up till now!’ Do not argue that question at all. I am constantly asked to decide for people whether they ever were true Christians, or were in error about their condition. It is a difficult enquiry, and of small practical value.” (Spurgeon)

3. (14-15) Return and be restored.
“Return, O backsliding children,” says the Lord; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.”

a. Return, O backsliding children: Here, God speaks to both “sisters” (Jeremiah 3:7) Israel and Judah and invites them to return to Him.

b. For I am married to you: Significantly, God said that He gave Israel a certificate of divorce (Jeremiah 3:8). Yet here He says to both Israel and Judah, “I am married to you.” God was willing to ignore the previous divorce if they would only return to Him.

i. These pleas: “Return, O backsliding children” and “For I am married to you” have great depth of feeling. This is not a cold, dispassionate God; this is the Lord full of warmth and compassion, pursing His wayward people.

ii. “Oh! it is grace that he should be married to any of us, but it is grace at its highest pitch, it is the ocean of grace at its flood- tide, that he should speak thus of ‘backsliding children.’” (Spurgeon)

c. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion: God promised restoration and repatriation for the remnant that would return to Him.

d. I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding: After the blessing of restoration and repatriation, God promised the blessing of good and godly spiritual leadership, giving an instructive description of what leaders among God’s people should be.

· They should be given by God (I will give you), not by human ambition or presumed calling.

· They are given to the people of God (I will give you) for their care and service unto them.

· They should be shepherds, caring for the flock of God.

· They should be according to God’s heart in the way they serve and lead God’s people.

· They should feed God’s people with knowledge.

· They should feed God’s people with understanding.

4. (16-17) Return and know the presence of the LORD.
“Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.”

a. When you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days…they will say no more, “The ark of the covenant of the LORD”: Jeremiah looked forward to Israel’s ultimate restoration, marked by gathering in the land and by the presence of the LORD Himself, not merely the representation of God seen in the ark of the covenant of the LORD.

b. It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it: Jeremiah looked forward to the day when the reality of God’s presence among men surpassed the symbol of it represented by the ark of the covenant. It would so far surpass it that when the reality comes, no one would think of the ark of the covenant any longer.

i. “The ark will not be restored because it will no longer be necessary as a symbol of God’s presence. The times of ceremonial emphasis will pass away. The actual glory of God in the presence of his people will be sufficient, and therefore the typical glory will not be missed.” (Feinberg)

c. At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it: Jeremiah looked forward to the day when Israel would be the leading nation of the earth, with the LORD Himself enthroned in Jerusalem and the nations coming to give Him honor.

d. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts: Jeremiah looked forward to the day when the nations would be genuinely transformed as they recognized the LORD and His work from Jerusalem.

i. Here, without calling it the new covenant, Jeremiah speaks of some of the benefits of the new covenant as will be later developed in Jeremiah 31:31-33.

R" He says Paul makes up new Greek words, not normally found in Greek eg "sunegeiro made up word"
Dave asks" Paul is hard to translate – example Paul makes up Greek words

These words do not exist in Hebrew – the idea they express are not in Hebrew
R" The speaker does not say this, you are making things up.
sunegeiro is made up from H1453 and some other Hebrew word, G4862 to Hebrew ??

You don’t get it – you word game fails you
What you are presenting is a false correlation

Example – Bitter and Sweet might both be – Japanese words – the word Bittersweet is NOT
Military and Intelligence may both be Chinese words – the term Military Intelligence is NOT
Roller and blade are English words - Roller Blades were not inveneted until the 1980s

The point - the word used by Paul never existed before Paul
1- makes Paul hard to translate – uses very big words – complicated grammar – lawyer speak
2- one reason we know it was written in Greek
3- one reason everyone (questions) Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews
4- one reason we know that Mark was not entirely Mark

PS I r3ead Darrly Burling's website? Is this the right spelling?

I quote " The glorious truth of the New Testament is that Christ Himself is our life. We cannot have life without Christ, which is why John said, “He who has the Son has the life” (1 John 5:12). This is also why we have the indwelling Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn’t come primarily to empower us, to give us good feelings, to enable us to speak in tongues, to give us power or to give us freedom. The Holy Spirit mediates the life of Christ to us. Hence, if we do not have the Spirit of Christ, we do not belong to Him (Rom 8:9). This is why we had to die to the law (and to the world) so that we could be joined to Christ (Rom 7:4).

My words exactly, when you amanuah Jesus, you grow using His power, and His spirit becomes your spirit.
Belief is all that is required
Baptism of the HS – the Comforter that teaches us from within – with whom we walk - communion
This is the calling – To be an Elisha - not just Elisha’s servant

1Jn 5:6 This one is he who did come through water and blood—Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; and the Spirit it is that is testifying, because the Spirit is the truth,
1Jn 5:7 because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these—the three—are one;
1Jn 5:8 and three are who are testifying in the earth , the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are into the one.
1Jn 5:9 If the testimony of men we receive, the testimony of God is greater, because this is the testimony of God that He hath testified concerning His Son.
1Jn 5:10 He who is believing in the Son of God, hath the testimony in himself; he who is not believing God, a liar hath made Him, because he hath not believed in the testimony that God hath testified concerning His Son;
1Jn 5:11 and this is the testimony, that life age-during did God give to us, and this—the life—is in His Son;
1Jn 5:12 he who is having the Son, hath the life; he who is not having the Son of God—the life he hath not.

[Deleted]

D"Heraclitus - 500 B.C. – all matter is held together by the Logos
Give me Hebrew teaching that says Imrah does this?
R"
Jeff Benner " Then in verse 14 we read "And the teachings became flesh." According to this passage, Yeshua took on the persona of God's teachings. After all, isn't that what Yeshua did? He came to teach the teachings of God.

Yeshua emptied himself of himself and instead took on the attributes of God's teachings. Therefore, whenever Yeshua speaks, it is not Yeshua speaking, but the teachings. When Yeshua says "I," the "I" is not Yeshua, it is the teachings.
R" Notice Jeff uses "persona" the "imrah" is the idea of personifying the words of the Father.
This is what the SON does, personifying the words of the Father.

RP" 9:41 The video author is saying there are at least two persons in the Godhead.
D"STOP IT – back up to 7:40 and listed to the whole paragraph
R" Dave he uses the term "godhead" this term is very specific and opposes your view entirely
You were wrong to use the Burling person, he does not support your views at all

D"
The point - the word used by Paul never existed before Paul
R" Nothing wrong adding Hebrew words together to make new meanings.


D"1Jn 5:7 because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these—the three—are one;
R" You are weird Dave, you are happy to quote this verse, and yet you say "All arguments trying to support a pantheon of multiple gods is REJECTED" I don't get you ?

It says the three are one, not three DUH, and you quoted the verse, not me.

SHalom

PS next time you present videos, make sure they all support your view, Burling has

"at least two persons in the Godhead."

Not your view at all.....

[Dave]

D"Heraclitus - 500 B.C. – all matter is held together by the Logos
Give me Hebrew teaching that says Imrah does this?
R"
Jeff Benner " Then in verse 14 we read "And the teachings became flesh." According to this passage, Yeshua took on the persona of God's teachings. After all, isn't that what Yeshua did? He came to teach the teachings of God.
Yeshua took on the persona of God's teachings – which was easy since he was/is God

R" Notice Jeff uses "persona" the "imrah" is the idea of personifying the words of the Father.
This is what the SON does, personifying the words of the Father.
Correct – Christians call this the Gospel

[Deleted]

Greetings Dave

It's funny you agree with me here, but according the Presbyterian doctrine of trinity
you CANNOT agree with me.

If the SON was the IMRAH and personifies the WORDS of the FATHER, we still have two personalities.


the Presbyterian doctrine of trinity could not agree because they have the root and the truck becoming a branch, you cannot personify something if you are already of the same essence of the thing you are personifying.

Biologically a SON is a near personality and genetic clone of the Father, but not exactly the same. The word personification is all about this idea.

The root is genetically and substantially the same as the trunk, so the branch cannot personify the trunk nor can the branch personify the root, they are modes of the same essence.

Your agreement with me is confusion to say the least.

I agree every cell in your body is both a genetic and personality clone of the cell your were made from. So your arm is a different mode to your head and a different mode to your heart, in essence they are all the same substance, the one we call Dave Freed. If one was to remove your kidney and give it to somebody else, the other person with a little part of you cannot personify you, that would indeed be two personalities that are different, yet share a part of you. Given a million years together, both humans would grow essentially alike, and would be a personification of the other but not exactly the same. Yet they are both humans. A family of daughters does the same thing. Your daughter can be a personification of you as their father. The daughter is nearly the same genetically as you, yet they share a personality different in the way they love.

I am not sure you understand my understanding of the term personification.

A branch and a truck and a root cannot personify the timber, as there is no differences between them.

Love and loving can and does produce differences. Over time, these differences grow, while the root and the trunk and the branch are the same substance, the loving process make them develop personalities that become different.

My two pennies
Shalom

[Dave]

It's funny you agree with me here, but according the Presbyterian doctrine of trinity
you CANNOT agree with me.
No one agrees that there are 3 gods locked together in a family to form a pantheon of gods
There is only One True God

If the SON was the IMRAH and personifies the WORDS of the FATHER, we still have two personalities.
God on the throne 24/7 – Christ on earth speaking the Gospel

the Presbyterian doctrine of trinity could not agree
you do not understand what you say – you just talk

Biologically a SON is a near personality and genetic clone of the Father
Clone is a biological term – the spirit within the man Jesus was God Himself

Jews have a duality – God on His throne 24/7 – never leave His throne empty
But His spirit moves among the people Shekinah – Holy Spirit
This is NOT two different Jewish Gods
This is God and the Spirit of God
This is God at distance away from His throne

However – God became flesh = Jesus Christ – God incarnate
This is NOT 3 different gods
It is God on His throne – God’s Spirit among the people and the God in the flesh

This is NOT 3 different gods
Jewish duality put on flesh and became Christian Trinity

Does not matter the vocabulary you argue – the facts remain the same

[Dave]

The teaching of Presbyterianism – Mainstream Christianity


John 1 – The Word Becomes Human

[Deleted]

Greetings'

As the word flows out , the words become separate....
Jesus become the human tent that walked and talked directly to humans
This time God is not writen, He is a person.
King and His words
Father and His Son
these are similes of saying the same thing?

BibleProject is a nonprofit, crowdfunded organization that produces 100% free animated videos, podcasts, classes, and educational resources and technology to help make the biblical story accessible to everyone, everywhere.

How can you be sure the BibleProject is a supporting The teaching of Presbyterianism – Mainstream Christianity?

I can find no link saying who they are and why they are doing this?

The video is nice, I liked it somewhat....

Question though

" As the word flows out , the words become separate....

Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth

When the YHWH spoke the words did not become separated, the words are carried by the HS from His mouth.


SImile and poetry ideas

King and His words
Father and His Son
these are similes of saying the same thing?

One has to be careful how you make poetry...

Scholars assume poetry parallels are two ways of saying the same thing.... this is dangerous.

Ps 119:105 (Nun) Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

The word is a simile of NUN, the letter meaning to move out from the family home over the nations.
The word is a lamp.
The word is a light.
Unto my feet.
Unto my path.

So feet and path are the same thing.
Lamp and light are the same thing.

So how making similes the same can lead to dangerous applications.

SHalom

[Dave]

How can you be sure the BibleProject is a supporting The teaching of Presbyterianism – Mainstream Christianity?
I can find no link saying who they are and why they are doing this?

Answer – I also found no statement of doctrine for them other than they call themselves orthodox – whatever that means – I did scan over their video inventory – doubt I support it all

But you asked for videos that support MY view – here is is

Answer – how do I know this is mainstream? BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN STUDYING THIS ALL MY ADULT LIFE!
Over the yeas I have dragged my family to many different denominations – all Calvin centric
I admit – I do not take my girls to Baptist or Unitarian churches
We have been to some Lutheran services – (I have amazing Lutheran friends) – but my girls always come home with questions

" As the word flows out , the words become separate....

Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth

When the YHWH spoke the words did not become separated, the words are carried by the HS from His mouth.

Dave’s version – When God spoke the word – that word vibrated – resonated – and this formed the base Electromagnetic field – waves of vibrations – just like LIGHT
Waves we out – expanded the heavens – and these waves become measurable as 3D particles when the interact

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of Adonai concerning Israel. A declaration of Adonai, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth
Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth,

This is the base EM that supplies the E (energy) that fuels all forces or movements – on the sub-atomic scale

E = mc2 = E is everything - God is everything – everything is God – on the sub-atomic scale

On this scale – I agree with Robert – we are all empowered by the HS
On this scale the Jews agree with Robert – The Rabbi said – you see a bus go by – you can say Hi God as it passes
Jewish pantheism on the sun-atomic scale

God ‘fattened’ the heavens and earth – OUT OF WHAT?
Answer – all is God – all creation is God – on the sub-atomic scale

Robert denies the rest of the scripture

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

The spirit of man is a separate product of creation – unique – independent - individual
Each angel was created - unique – independent – individual
Each cow – ant – termite or virus - unique – independent - individual

So how making similes the same can lead to dangerous applications.
You are the proof

[Deleted]

D"Dave’s version – When God spoke the word – that word vibrated – resonated – and this formed the base Electromagnetic field – waves of vibrations – just like LIGHT
Waves we out – expanded the heavens – and these waves become measurable as 3D particles when the interact

You ignore the Hebrew word ruwach behind breath. "breath of His mouth"

D"The Rabbi said – you see a bus go by – you can say Hi God as it passes

R" I would not agree to this, just because God empowers all things does not mean this is personally GOD.

Ps 131:1 we should learn to keep complex things in the heavens where they belong.


D"Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

It says the ruwach was formed with man, not created to be man's individual spirit.

Again you do not see the Hebrew words carefully.

Shalom

[Dave]

D"Dave’s version – When God spoke the word –
You ignore the Hebrew word ruwach behind breath. "breath of His mouth"
DUH the breath is the spirit that goes out

D"The Rabbi said – you see a bus go by – you can say Hi God as it passes
R" I would not agree to this, just because God empowers all things does not mean this is personally GOD.
Another flip Flop – God empowers the tress and rock or NOT – make up your mind