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Post by Dave on Apr 28, 2022 11:29:14 GMT -5
Three "el" are divine 1) el shadday, who functions as the HS 2)el ab aslo known as most high el, who functions as a father 3) el yashuah, also known as micha "el", who functions as a son John 1:1 How the Greek text argues that Jesus is God (and why it doesn't mean "Jesus is a God")AGREE 100% - every word – this is very east Greek – 1st year - elementary Joh 1:1 ᾿Εν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος. In beginning - correct there is no (the) – un-necessary because there is only one beginning (καὶ) - Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος – is a PREDICATE NOMINATIVE English examples: I am Dave In a predicate nominative – the LINKING VERB = a BEING VERB = I am Dave – same as – Dave = me – same as – I = Dave In Greek – because ὁ Λόγος has the article it is the subject English example Bill is the butcher – in English comes out as – The butcher, Bill, In Greek ὁ Λόγος = Θεὸς –or- Θεὸς = ὁ Λόγος So – In Greek = In the one and only beginning - The Word is God –or- God is the Word-------------------- In the one and only beginning - The Word is God –or- God is the Word + καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν And – The Word (subject of clause) was/is -being verb- πρός – the God (accusitive = DO) G4314 – πρός - A strengthened form of G4253; a preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward MOVEMENT (with the genitive case the side of, that is, pertaining to; with the dative case by the side of, that is, near to; usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, that is, whither or for which it is predicated): - about, according to, against, among, at, because of, before, between, ([where-]) by, for, X at thy house, in, for intent, nigh unto, of, which pertain to, that, to (the end that), + together, to ([you]) -ward, unto, with (-in). In compounds it denotes essentially the same applications, namely, motion towards, accession to, a preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward = MOVEMENTthe place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation God = space/time God = movement – forward toward God = the occasion (creation) God = the destination of the relation So – In Greek = In the one and only beginning - The Word is God –or- God is the Word + God = space/time - movement (physics uses the term distance) ------------------- Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:14 Καὶ ὁ Λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας. Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. We looked upon His glory, the glory of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth. In the one and only beginning – The Word is God - God is the Word God = space/time - movement (physics uses the term distance) And the Word became FleshChristian Trinity – NOT 3 different gods------------------ Jesus is God: How Greek supports the deity of Christ------------------ PROOF THAT PAUL WROTE GREEKBible Translations: here's what they hide from youPaul is hard to translate – example Paul makes up Greek words These words do not exist in Hebrew – the idea they express are not in Hebrew I ask Robert – what do these words mean to a Christian? I ask Robert – what do these words mean to a Born Again Christian?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 17:34:36 GMT -5
I will watch these videos later,,
big post of yours, need time, many hours in fact.
One question before I go...
Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Immrah, and the Immrah was with Elohiym, and the Immrah was Elohiym.
Most Jews see Imrah as the correct Hebrew word, not Dabar.
Pr 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? 5 Every word (imrah) of God (eloah) is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him
Question: Who is the ruwach, the son, the son's name, the imrah and the eloah here?
The What is His Sons's name, implies a Father as well?
I am interested in your understanding of immrah, something NOT considered in the Greek videos. ( a prediction I make already)
Shalom
OK watched all three videos
Video 1: John 1:1 Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
A Noun , The Noun, quality to another noun
9:41 The video author is saying there are at least two persons in the Godhead.
Rob" He says there are at least two persons in the Godhead. This is a typical SDA saying, and is not supporting your view at all, as I understand you, saying the Father and the Son are expressions. Meaning the Son is a expression of the Father, is NOT what this speaker is saying.
Video 2, recognize the deity of Christ.
We are saved only by Christ.
We must believe Jesus is God.
The granville Sharp Rule
article kai article, refers to the same thing
doesn't apply to plurals
doesn't apply to personal names
Ep 6:21 beloved brother/ and/ faithful servant
so the brother and servant same parallel
Rev 22:8 John hearing/ and /seeing
Phil 2:25 brother/ and/ worker/ and my fellow solider
titus 2:13 theos/ kai/ saviour
R" I have no problem with Jesus as divinity. Fully divine for that matter. Jesus is both our Saviour and ELohiym.
But as the speaker in video says there are at least two persons within the Godhead.
video 3: Paul makes up words, no equivalent greek word.
Ephesians 1: 20 in heavenly places
Eph 2: verse 6 sunegeiro made up word.... seated us in the heavenly places.
5:34 "Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father"
idea of unity, talking about unity shared between Jews and Gentiles, created as one new man in Jesus.
EPh 3:6 into Christo "in Jesus"
R" He says Paul makes up new Greek words, not normally found in Greek eg "sunegeiro made up word"
Dave asks" Paul is hard to translate – example Paul makes up Greek words
These words do not exist in Hebrew – the idea they express are not in Hebrew
R" The speaker does not say this, you are making things up.
rk#:1453 / eg-i-ro (verb): Rise Freq:&141
Heb#:6965 קום / qum (verb): Rise—To assume an
upright position; to raise or rise up; to continue or
establish.
Heb#:7311 רום / rum (verb): Raise—To lift something up.
sunegeiro is made up from H1453 and some other Hebrew word, G4862 to Hebrew ??
The idea to raise up
Eph 2:6 And Jesus has raised us up together,
SOunds Hebrew to me,
what's the problem, Dave and what are you getting at.
Shalom
PS I r3ead Darrly Burling's website? Is this the right spelling?
I quote " The glorious truth of the New Testament is that Christ Himself is our life. We cannot have life without Christ, which is why John said, “He who has the Son has the life” (1 John 5:12). This is also why we have the indwelling Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn’t come primarily to empower us, to give us good feelings, to enable us to speak in tongues, to give us power or to give us freedom. The Holy Spirit mediates the life of Christ to us. Hence, if we do not have the Spirit of Christ, we do not belong to Him (Rom 8:9). This is why we had to die to the law (and to the world) so that we could be joined to Christ (Rom 7:4).
My words exactly, when you amanuah Jesus, you grow using His power, and His spirit becomes your spirit. This passage of the speaker of the videos is not supporting Dave's view, where you develop your spirit in communion with Jesus spirit. No it is saying we must by faith allow our old spirit to die, and be replaced with the spirit of Jesus, we mediate the life of Jesus in us.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 29, 2022 15:26:18 GMT -5
Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Immrah, and the Immrah was with Elohiym, and the Immrah was Elohiym.
Most Jews see Imrah as the correct Hebrew word, not Dabar. THE CORRECT WORD = LOGOS
Heraclitus - 500 B.C. – all matter is held together by the Logos Give me Hebrew teaching that says Imrah does this?
5 Every word (imrah) of God (eloah) is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him Question: Who is the ruwach, the son, the son's name, the imrah and the eloah here? YES – John 1:1 Word = God = Christ = Holy Spirit – all pure And – the written word of God – all pure
9:41 The video author is saying there are at least two persons in the Godhead. STOP IT – back up to 7:40 and listed to the whole paragraph TRINITY - 3 persons
Rob" He says there are at least two persons in the Godhead. This is a typical SDA saying, and is not supporting your view at all, as I understand you, saying the Father and the Son are expressions. Meaning the Son is a expression of the Father, is NOT what this speaker is saying. Tire of your word games
John 1:1 Word = God = Christ = Holy Spirit = ONLY ONE TRUE GOD All arguments trying to support a pantheon of multiple gods is REJECTED --------------
video 3: Paul makes up words, no equivalent greek word. Ephesians 1: 20 in heavenly places Eph 2: verse 6 sunegeiro made up word.... seated us in the heavenly places.
idea of unity, talking about unity shared between Jews and Gentiles, created as one new man in Jesus. What is your point – don’t you believe in the remarriage of Israel to Judah? The return of the Northern Kingdoms. The Age of the gentile
R" He says Paul makes up new Greek words, not normally found in Greek eg "sunegeiro made up word" Dave asks" Paul is hard to translate – example Paul makes up Greek words
These words do not exist in Hebrew – the idea they express are not in Hebrew R" The speaker does not say this, you are making things up. sunegeiro is made up from H1453 and some other Hebrew word, G4862 to Hebrew ??
You don’t get it – you word game fails you What you are presenting is a false correlation
Example – Bitter and Sweet might both be – Japanese words – the word Bittersweet is NOT Military and Intelligence may both be Chinese words – the term Military Intelligence is NOT Roller and blade are English words - Roller Blades were not inveneted until the 1980s
The point - the word used by Paul never existed before Paul 1- makes Paul hard to translate – uses very big words – complicated grammar – lawyer speak 2- one reason we know it was written in Greek 3- one reason everyone (questions) Paul wrote the Book of Hebrews 4- one reason we know that Mark was not entirely Mark
PS I r3ead Darrly Burling's website? Is this the right spelling?
I quote " The glorious truth of the New Testament is that Christ Himself is our life. We cannot have life without Christ, which is why John said, “He who has the Son has the life” (1 John 5:12). This is also why we have the indwelling Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn’t come primarily to empower us, to give us good feelings, to enable us to speak in tongues, to give us power or to give us freedom. The Holy Spirit mediates the life of Christ to us. Hence, if we do not have the Spirit of Christ, we do not belong to Him (Rom 8:9). This is why we had to die to the law (and to the world) so that we could be joined to Christ (Rom 7:4).
My words exactly, when you amanuah Jesus, you grow using His power, and His spirit becomes your spirit. Belief is all that is required Baptism of the HS – the Comforter that teaches us from within – with whom we walk - communion This is the calling – To be an Elisha - not just Elisha’s servant
1Jn 5:6 This one is he who did come through water and blood—Jesus the Christ, not in the water only, but in the water and the blood; and the Spirit it is that is testifying, because the Spirit is the truth, 1Jn 5:7 because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these—the three—are one; 1Jn 5:8 and three are who are testifying in the earth , the Spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are into the one. 1Jn 5:9 If the testimony of men we receive, the testimony of God is greater, because this is the testimony of God that He hath testified concerning His Son. 1Jn 5:10 He who is believing in the Son of God, hath the testimony in himself; he who is not believing God, a liar hath made Him, because he hath not believed in the testimony that God hath testified concerning His Son; 1Jn 5:11 and this is the testimony, that life age-during did God give to us, and this—the life—is in His Son; 1Jn 5:12 he who is having the Son, hath the life; he who is not having the Son of God—the life he hath not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2022 16:24:27 GMT -5
D"Heraclitus - 500 B.C. – all matter is held together by the Logos Give me Hebrew teaching that says Imrah does this? R" Jeff Benner " Then in verse 14 we read "And the teachings became flesh." According to this passage, Yeshua took on the persona of God's teachings. After all, isn't that what Yeshua did? He came to teach the teachings of God.
Yeshua emptied himself of himself and instead took on the attributes of God's teachings. Therefore, whenever Yeshua speaks, it is not Yeshua speaking, but the teachings. When Yeshua says "I," the "I" is not Yeshua, it is the teachings. R" Notice Jeff uses "persona" the "imrah" is the idea of personifying the words of the Father. This is what the SON does, personifying the words of the Father.
RP" 9:41 The video author is saying there are at least two persons in the Godhead. D"STOP IT – back up to 7:40 and listed to the whole paragraph R" Dave he uses the term "godhead" this term is very specific and opposes your view entirely You were wrong to use the Burling person, he does not support your views at all
D" The point - the word used by Paul never existed before Paul R" Nothing wrong adding Hebrew words together to make new meanings.
D"1Jn 5:7 because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these—the three—are one; R" You are weird Dave, you are happy to quote this verse, and yet you say "All arguments trying to support a pantheon of multiple gods is REJECTED" I don't get you ?
It says the three are one, not three DUH, and you quoted the verse, not me.
SHalom
PS next time you present videos, make sure they all support your view, Burling has "at least two persons in the Godhead."
Not your view at all.....
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Post by Dave on Apr 29, 2022 17:25:28 GMT -5
D"Heraclitus - 500 B.C. – all matter is held together by the Logos Give me Hebrew teaching that says Imrah does this? R" Jeff Benner " Then in verse 14 we read "And the teachings became flesh." According to this passage, Yeshua took on the persona of God's teachings. After all, isn't that what Yeshua did? He came to teach the teachings of God. Yeshua took on the persona of God's teachings – which was easy since he was/is God
R" Notice Jeff uses "persona" the "imrah" is the idea of personifying the words of the Father. This is what the SON does, personifying the words of the Father. Correct – Christians call this the Gospel
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2022 3:29:44 GMT -5
Greetings Dave
It's funny you agree with me here, but according the Presbyterian doctrine of trinity you CANNOT agree with me.
If the SON was the IMRAH and personifies the WORDS of the FATHER, we still have two personalities.
the Presbyterian doctrine of trinity could not agree because they have the root and the truck becoming a branch, you cannot personify something if you are already of the same essence of the thing you are personifying.
Biologically a SON is a near personality and genetic clone of the Father, but not exactly the same. The word personification is all about this idea.
The root is genetically and substantially the same as the trunk, so the branch cannot personify the trunk nor can the branch personify the root, they are modes of the same essence.
Your agreement with me is confusion to say the least.
I agree every cell in your body is both a genetic and personality clone of the cell your were made from. So your arm is a different mode to your head and a different mode to your heart, in essence they are all the same substance, the one we call Dave Freed. If one was to remove your kidney and give it to somebody else, the other person with a little part of you cannot personify you, that would indeed be two personalities that are different, yet share a part of you. Given a million years together, both humans would grow essentially alike, and would be a personification of the other but not exactly the same. Yet they are both humans. A family of daughters does the same thing. Your daughter can be a personification of you as their father. The daughter is nearly the same genetically as you, yet they share a personality different in the way they love.
I am not sure you understand my understanding of the term personification.
A branch and a truck and a root cannot personify the timber, as there is no differences between them.
Love and loving can and does produce differences. Over time, these differences grow, while the root and the trunk and the branch are the same substance, the loving process make them develop personalities that become different.
My two pennies Shalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 30, 2022 6:14:59 GMT -5
It's funny you agree with me here, but according the Presbyterian doctrine of trinity you CANNOT agree with me. No one agrees that there are 3 gods locked together in a family to form a pantheon of gods There is only One True God
If the SON was the IMRAH and personifies the WORDS of the FATHER, we still have two personalities. God on the throne 24/7 – Christ on earth speaking the Gospel
the Presbyterian doctrine of trinity could not agree you do not understand what you say – you just talk
Biologically a SON is a near personality and genetic clone of the Father Clone is a biological term – the spirit within the man Jesus was God Himself
Jews have a duality – God on His throne 24/7 – never leave His throne empty But His spirit moves among the people Shekinah – Holy Spirit This is NOT two different Jewish Gods This is God and the Spirit of God This is God at distance away from His throne
However – God became flesh = Jesus Christ – God incarnate This is NOT 3 different gods It is God on His throne – God’s Spirit among the people and the God in the flesh
This is NOT 3 different gods Jewish duality put on flesh and became Christian Trinity
Does not matter the vocabulary you argue – the facts remain the same
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Post by Dave on Apr 30, 2022 8:43:06 GMT -5
The teaching of Presbyterianism – Mainstream Christianity
John 1 – The Word Becomes Human
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2022 16:55:37 GMT -5
Greetings'
As the word flows out , the words become separate.... Jesus become the human tent that walked and talked directly to humans This time God is not writen, He is a person. King and His words Father and His Son these are similes of saying the same thing?
BibleProject is a nonprofit, crowdfunded organization that produces 100% free animated videos, podcasts, classes, and educational resources and technology to help make the biblical story accessible to everyone, everywhere.
How can you be sure the BibleProject is a supporting The teaching of Presbyterianism – Mainstream Christianity?
I can find no link saying who they are and why they are doing this?
The video is nice, I liked it somewhat....
Question though
" As the word flows out , the words become separate....
Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth
When the YHWH spoke the words did not become separated, the words are carried by the HS from His mouth.
SImile and poetry ideas
King and His words Father and His Son these are similes of saying the same thing?
One has to be careful how you make poetry...
Scholars assume poetry parallels are two ways of saying the same thing.... this is dangerous.
Ps 119:105 (Nun) Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
The word is a simile of NUN, the letter meaning to move out from the family home over the nations. The word is a lamp. The word is a light. Unto my feet. Unto my path.
So feet and path are the same thing. Lamp and light are the same thing.
So how making similes the same can lead to dangerous applications.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Apr 30, 2022 18:08:55 GMT -5
How can you be sure the BibleProject is a supporting The teaching of Presbyterianism – Mainstream Christianity? I can find no link saying who they are and why they are doing this?
Answer – I also found no statement of doctrine for them other than they call themselves orthodox – whatever that means – I did scan over their video inventory – doubt I support it all
But you asked for videos that support MY view – here is is
Answer – how do I know this is mainstream? BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN STUDYING THIS ALL MY ADULT LIFE! Over the yeas I have dragged my family to many different denominations – all Calvin centric I admit – I do not take my girls to Baptist or Unitarian churches We have been to some Lutheran services – (I have amazing Lutheran friends) – but my girls always come home with questions
" As the word flows out , the words become separate....
Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth
When the YHWH spoke the words did not become separated, the words are carried by the HS from His mouth.
Dave’s version – When God spoke the word – that word vibrated – resonated – and this formed the base Electromagnetic field – waves of vibrations – just like LIGHT Waves we out – expanded the heavens – and these waves become measurable as 3D particles when the interact
Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of Adonai concerning Israel. A declaration of Adonai, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundation of the earth Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth,
This is the base EM that supplies the E (energy) that fuels all forces or movements – on the sub-atomic scale
E = mc2 = E is everything - God is everything – everything is God – on the sub-atomic scale
On this scale – I agree with Robert – we are all empowered by the HS On this scale the Jews agree with Robert – The Rabbi said – you see a bus go by – you can say Hi God as it passes Jewish pantheism on the sun-atomic scale
God ‘fattened’ the heavens and earth – OUT OF WHAT? Answer – all is God – all creation is God – on the sub-atomic scale
Robert denies the rest of the scripture
Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
The spirit of man is a separate product of creation – unique – independent - individual Each angel was created - unique – independent – individual Each cow – ant – termite or virus - unique – independent - individual
So how making similes the same can lead to dangerous applications. You are the proof
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2022 3:25:18 GMT -5
D"Dave’s version – When God spoke the word – that word vibrated – resonated – and this formed the base Electromagnetic field – waves of vibrations – just like LIGHT Waves we out – expanded the heavens – and these waves become measurable as 3D particles when the interact
You ignore the Hebrew word ruwach behind breath. "breath of His mouth"
D"The Rabbi said – you see a bus go by – you can say Hi God as it passes
R" I would not agree to this, just because God empowers all things does not mean this is personally GOD.
Ps 131:1 we should learn to keep complex things in the heavens where they belong.
D"Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
It says the ruwach was formed with man, not created to be man's individual spirit.
Again you do not see the Hebrew words carefully.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on May 1, 2022 8:05:05 GMT -5
D"Dave’s version – When God spoke the word – You ignore the Hebrew word ruwach behind breath. "breath of His mouth" DUH the breath is the spirit that goes out
D"The Rabbi said – you see a bus go by – you can say Hi God as it passes R" I would not agree to this, just because God empowers all things does not mean this is personally GOD. Another flip Flop – God empowers the tress and rock or NOT – make up your mind
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