Post by Dave on Jan 12, 2022 15:50:03 GMT -5
What of this ‘war’ Robert is all worked up about?
Answer – it is over – no contest – God is absolute
I thank the Lord every day for Robert – because he absolutely pushes the boundaries to defend his ‘doctrine’ – I was once in a place of misperceptions, as he is – because the tradition of formal Roman Christendom is a powerful legacy
Robert’s maintains that
1- satan is an angel of the Lord that fell from Grace – Ezk 28 – rebellion in heaven by turncoat angels
This is the Catholic doctrine of “Fallen Angels” word for word – straight from Roman Catechism
2- On the issue of Islam or Protectant reformation – Robert blames it upon the “Jesuit Satanic Cult called the Roman Catholic Church”
3- Robert refuses to admit that his base doctrine of satan was authored by his “Jesuit Satanic Cult”
But Robert is also unable to offer one small evidence that this doctrine of satan existed before Rome invented it – not one pre-Roman source
4- because he believes this – satan doctrine -he duped by the deception that there is no spirit – and communion / personal relationship with God is only something you get by practicing religion – by deliberated choosing to support Jesus Christ – by deliberately choosing to have faith – because the more you choose it the more faith you have
The Great Controversy is built upon the concept of two gods locked in an eternal conflict. Two have two side in his conflict he needs two gods – two opposers gods –
1- This is a Zoroasterian pagan teach from Persia / Chaldea
2- Farther East – the Taoist termed it Yin and Yang
He is also a Feel Good Christian and his god is only TOV – so he is left with a god of ra
Robert even said once – ‘Yes – he has two gods and two kings’ and asked ‘what’s wrong with that?’
I do not mean to embarrass Robert here – but this is exactly the point
There is Only One True God – who is absolutely supreme
Things only happen the way God did them – and is doing them - and will do them - by God’s Plan by God’s Will
What about Roberts WAR in heaven – Rev 12:7
What about Roberts satan – an angel of the lord that rebelled – Ezk 28
First the Gnostic version – The CONTEST
Authoritative Teaching - The Nag Hammadi Library
And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world
Scripture
Gen 1:1 God created the heavens (the First Age – the age of spirit)
Gen 1:1 God created … the earth
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Gnostic – The Holy Spirit created the First Archon / Chief Archon with offspring
(discussion of Robert’s problem with this below)*
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Gen 1:2 choeshek
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good:
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Gen 1:4 … and God divided the light from the darkness.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Not only a division of locality – but
A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Gen 1:4 … and God divided the light from the darkness.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman,
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
What is the flood out of the mouth of the serpent = Gen 6
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
The Flood of Noah – Gen 7-10 – RESET – A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Nimrod – Tammuz – Babel – RESET - A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman
Rev 12:17 And the dragon … went to make war with the remnant of her seed
Babel to Abraham – RESET - A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Rev 12:15 And the serpent
Rev 12:16 And the earth
Rev 12:17 And the dragon
Abraham to Jesus Christ – the Age of the Jew – RESET - A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Rev 12:15 And the serpent
Rev 12:16 And the earth
Rev 12:17 And the dragon
Christ to now = the Age of the Gentile – and the promised RESET
THE END of Rev Chapter 12
Rev 12:17 … the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
What about Roberts WAR in heaven – Rev 12:7
God divided the light from the darkness
Gnostic answer – physical creation comes with entropy / ra
The Beast is the personification of ra / world / me / self / Selfish / (yester ra)
Gnostic word game – (Robert gets to play them)
God = perfection
Heavens – 1 step away from that perfection
Physical creation – 2 steps away
Ra = movement away from the source
Science / Jewish – God created and the heavens expanded
Ra = movement away from the source
Ancient Gnostic – physical creation = ra
Nag Hammadi correction – God’s creation is tov (Gen 1:31) – The Beast of Revelation that just appeared – created by the left hand – was just the first sentient of physical creation – the first to think and that though was only of SELF (yester ra)
What about Roberts satan – an angel of the lord that rebelled – Ezk 28
The passage is all about man – Adam – mankind – King of Tyre
What about satan
Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. – all = archon
100% real – 100% tangible in the world - in your face daily
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities (archon), against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Who made them – and where did they come from
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him.
All was created through Him and for Him.
Why is the CONTEST so hard and at time unrewarding?
Becaue man is stubborn - even with all that God has given us and done for us - who many believe?
The Exegesis on the Soul - The Nag Hammadi Library
For the beginning of salvation is repentance. Therefore (cf. Acts 13:24), "Before Christ`s appearance came John, preaching the baptism of repentance."
And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'"
Again another place (Is 30:15), "Thus says the lord, the holy one of Israel: "If you return and sigh, then you will be saved and will know where you were when you trusted in what is empty."
Again he said in another place (Is 30:19-20), "Jerusalem wept much, saying, 'Have pity on me.' He will have pity on the sound of your weeping. And when he saw, he heeded you. And the lord will give you bread of affliction and water of oppression. From now on, those who deceive will not approach you again. Your eyes will see those who are deceiving you."
Therefore it is fitting to pray to God night and day, spreading out our hands towards him as do people sailing in the middle of the sea: they pray to God with all their heart without hypocrisy. For those who pray hypocritically deceive only themselves. Indeed, it is in order that he might know who is worthy of salvation that God examines the inward parts and searches the bottom of the heart. For no one is worthy of salvation who still loves the place of deception.
--------
The only Gnostic addition to the scripture presented here =
The Holy Spirit created the First Archon / Chief Archon with offspring
* (discussion of Robert’s problem with this)
The Apocryphon of John - The Nag Hammadi Library
"And the Sophia of the Epinoia, being an aeon, conceived a thought from herself and the conception of the invisible Spirit and foreknowledge. She wanted to bring forth a likeness out of herself without the consent of the Spirit, - he had not approved - and without her consort, and without his consideration. And though the person of her maleness had not approved, and she had not found her agreement, and she had thought without the consent of the Spirit and the knowledge of her agreement, (yet) she brought forth. And because of the invincible power which is in her, her thought did not remain idle, and something came out of her which was imperfect and different from her appearance, because she had created it without her consort. And it was dissimilar to the likeness of its mother, for it has another form.
"And when she saw (the consequences of) her desire, it changed into a form of a lion-faced serpent. And its eyes were like lightning fires which flash. She cast it away from her, outside that place, that no one of the immortal ones might see it, for she had created it in ignorance. And she surrounded it with a luminous cloud, and she placed a throne in the middle of the cloud that no one might see it except the holy Spirit who is called the mother of the living. And she called his name Yaltabaoth.
"This is the first archon who took a great power from his mother. And he removed himself from her and moved away from the places in which he was born.
Roberts problem –
1- How can the Holy Spirit Create?
2- How could she do it without her consort knowing?
My answer –
1- How can the Holy Spirit Create?
John 1:1 – Word = Word = Word = Trinity – God / HS / Christ created
The HS is not a separate god - She is the Spirit of God
2- How could she do it without her consort knowing?
Jesus said -
Mat 6:3 But when you do tzedakah, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
This is a common Jewish idiom – it has several meaning
Rabbinic = the Right Hand of God is the hand of instruction and salvation – the left hand is the hand of mystery and judgment
Christ –is always on the right hand – the wicked on the left
Also means – your mitzvah should just spill out – without the conscious deliberate decision
If you stop to help someone in need – it is a mitzvah
If you stop and think about how good you will look doing this mitzvah – it is just chatta
Answer – it is over – no contest – God is absolute
I thank the Lord every day for Robert – because he absolutely pushes the boundaries to defend his ‘doctrine’ – I was once in a place of misperceptions, as he is – because the tradition of formal Roman Christendom is a powerful legacy
Robert’s maintains that
1- satan is an angel of the Lord that fell from Grace – Ezk 28 – rebellion in heaven by turncoat angels
This is the Catholic doctrine of “Fallen Angels” word for word – straight from Roman Catechism
2- On the issue of Islam or Protectant reformation – Robert blames it upon the “Jesuit Satanic Cult called the Roman Catholic Church”
3- Robert refuses to admit that his base doctrine of satan was authored by his “Jesuit Satanic Cult”
But Robert is also unable to offer one small evidence that this doctrine of satan existed before Rome invented it – not one pre-Roman source
4- because he believes this – satan doctrine -he duped by the deception that there is no spirit – and communion / personal relationship with God is only something you get by practicing religion – by deliberated choosing to support Jesus Christ – by deliberately choosing to have faith – because the more you choose it the more faith you have
The Great Controversy is built upon the concept of two gods locked in an eternal conflict. Two have two side in his conflict he needs two gods – two opposers gods –
1- This is a Zoroasterian pagan teach from Persia / Chaldea
2- Farther East – the Taoist termed it Yin and Yang
He is also a Feel Good Christian and his god is only TOV – so he is left with a god of ra
Robert even said once – ‘Yes – he has two gods and two kings’ and asked ‘what’s wrong with that?’
I do not mean to embarrass Robert here – but this is exactly the point
There is Only One True God – who is absolutely supreme
Things only happen the way God did them – and is doing them - and will do them - by God’s Plan by God’s Will
What about Roberts WAR in heaven – Rev 12:7
What about Roberts satan – an angel of the lord that rebelled – Ezk 28
First the Gnostic version – The CONTEST
Authoritative Teaching - The Nag Hammadi Library
And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world
Scripture
Gen 1:1 God created the heavens (the First Age – the age of spirit)
Gen 1:1 God created … the earth
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Gnostic – The Holy Spirit created the First Archon / Chief Archon with offspring
(discussion of Robert’s problem with this below)*
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Gen 1:2 choeshek
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good:
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Gen 1:4 … and God divided the light from the darkness.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Not only a division of locality – but
A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Gen 1:4 … and God divided the light from the darkness.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman,
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
What is the flood out of the mouth of the serpent = Gen 6
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
The Flood of Noah – Gen 7-10 – RESET – A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Nimrod – Tammuz – Babel – RESET - A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman
Rev 12:17 And the dragon … went to make war with the remnant of her seed
Babel to Abraham – RESET - A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Rev 12:15 And the serpent
Rev 12:16 And the earth
Rev 12:17 And the dragon
Abraham to Jesus Christ – the Age of the Jew – RESET - A timed pause – allowing the Contest to play out
Rev 12:15 And the serpent
Rev 12:16 And the earth
Rev 12:17 And the dragon
Christ to now = the Age of the Gentile – and the promised RESET
THE END of Rev Chapter 12
Rev 12:17 … the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
What about Roberts WAR in heaven – Rev 12:7
God divided the light from the darkness
Gnostic answer – physical creation comes with entropy / ra
The Beast is the personification of ra / world / me / self / Selfish / (yester ra)
Gnostic word game – (Robert gets to play them)
God = perfection
Heavens – 1 step away from that perfection
Physical creation – 2 steps away
Ra = movement away from the source
Science / Jewish – God created and the heavens expanded
Ra = movement away from the source
Ancient Gnostic – physical creation = ra
Nag Hammadi correction – God’s creation is tov (Gen 1:31) – The Beast of Revelation that just appeared – created by the left hand – was just the first sentient of physical creation – the first to think and that though was only of SELF (yester ra)
What about Roberts satan – an angel of the lord that rebelled – Ezk 28
The passage is all about man – Adam – mankind – King of Tyre
What about satan
Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. – all = archon
100% real – 100% tangible in the world - in your face daily
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities (archon), against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Who made them – and where did they come from
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him.
All was created through Him and for Him.
Why is the CONTEST so hard and at time unrewarding?
Becaue man is stubborn - even with all that God has given us and done for us - who many believe?
The Exegesis on the Soul - The Nag Hammadi Library
For the beginning of salvation is repentance. Therefore (cf. Acts 13:24), "Before Christ`s appearance came John, preaching the baptism of repentance."
And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'"
Again another place (Is 30:15), "Thus says the lord, the holy one of Israel: "If you return and sigh, then you will be saved and will know where you were when you trusted in what is empty."
Again he said in another place (Is 30:19-20), "Jerusalem wept much, saying, 'Have pity on me.' He will have pity on the sound of your weeping. And when he saw, he heeded you. And the lord will give you bread of affliction and water of oppression. From now on, those who deceive will not approach you again. Your eyes will see those who are deceiving you."
Therefore it is fitting to pray to God night and day, spreading out our hands towards him as do people sailing in the middle of the sea: they pray to God with all their heart without hypocrisy. For those who pray hypocritically deceive only themselves. Indeed, it is in order that he might know who is worthy of salvation that God examines the inward parts and searches the bottom of the heart. For no one is worthy of salvation who still loves the place of deception.
--------
The only Gnostic addition to the scripture presented here =
The Holy Spirit created the First Archon / Chief Archon with offspring
* (discussion of Robert’s problem with this)
The Apocryphon of John - The Nag Hammadi Library
"And the Sophia of the Epinoia, being an aeon, conceived a thought from herself and the conception of the invisible Spirit and foreknowledge. She wanted to bring forth a likeness out of herself without the consent of the Spirit, - he had not approved - and without her consort, and without his consideration. And though the person of her maleness had not approved, and she had not found her agreement, and she had thought without the consent of the Spirit and the knowledge of her agreement, (yet) she brought forth. And because of the invincible power which is in her, her thought did not remain idle, and something came out of her which was imperfect and different from her appearance, because she had created it without her consort. And it was dissimilar to the likeness of its mother, for it has another form.
"And when she saw (the consequences of) her desire, it changed into a form of a lion-faced serpent. And its eyes were like lightning fires which flash. She cast it away from her, outside that place, that no one of the immortal ones might see it, for she had created it in ignorance. And she surrounded it with a luminous cloud, and she placed a throne in the middle of the cloud that no one might see it except the holy Spirit who is called the mother of the living. And she called his name Yaltabaoth.
"This is the first archon who took a great power from his mother. And he removed himself from her and moved away from the places in which he was born.
Roberts problem –
1- How can the Holy Spirit Create?
2- How could she do it without her consort knowing?
My answer –
1- How can the Holy Spirit Create?
John 1:1 – Word = Word = Word = Trinity – God / HS / Christ created
The HS is not a separate god - She is the Spirit of God
2- How could she do it without her consort knowing?
Jesus said -
Mat 6:3 But when you do tzedakah, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
This is a common Jewish idiom – it has several meaning
Rabbinic = the Right Hand of God is the hand of instruction and salvation – the left hand is the hand of mystery and judgment
Christ –is always on the right hand – the wicked on the left
Also means – your mitzvah should just spill out – without the conscious deliberate decision
If you stop to help someone in need – it is a mitzvah
If you stop and think about how good you will look doing this mitzvah – it is just chatta