Jeff Brenner's Hebrew Trinity

[Dave]

John 1:1 from an Hebraic perspective

0:17 – He makes the statement – modern Hellenic thought is concerned with the individual
In contras Hebrew though is always of the community

This is so very correct – the ahl was written for the nation – for the people – for the community Jeff Brenner says
It was God’s chosen people witnessing to the whole world – nation vrs nation – peoples vrs peoples

The agl is written to you – the person – it is about your salvation – your walk with God – your witness for the Lord

0:45 Jeff Brenner says the Hebrew goal = the illumination of SELF (yeater ra) ego
Where have I heard this taught before?

1:40 His premise – in Hebrew “word” means “teaching” and is synomous with “Torah”

1:55 he rewites John 1:1
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the “Teaching”. The “Teaching” was with God, and the “Teaching” was God.

Or

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the “Torah”. The “Torah” was with God, and the “Torah” was God.

2:00 he rewites John 1:14
Joh 1:14 And the “Teaching” became flesh and tabernacled among us.
Joh 1:14 And the “Torah” became flesh and tabernacled among us.

2:10 – Jesus is the persona of the “teachings” of God
2:15 – Jesus came to earth to “teach God’s word” = Jer 1:5
2:20 – Jesus emptied Himself of Himself to make room for God’s Teachings
YES – all men are (yester tov- spirit) + (yestar ra – biology)
Most men walk around as – (yester tov) + (YESTER RA)
Jesus emptied Himself to be (YESTER TOV) + (yester ra)

2:30 – whenever Jesus speaks – it is not Jesus the man (biology –yestr ra) speaking – it is Christ (the spirit within – yester tov) that speaks

2:39 – he rewrite John 14:6
Joh 14:6 Yeshua said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life!

It is not Jesus the man speaking – it is Christ – the Teachings – the Torah – the Word speaking
Joh 14:6 Yeshua said to him, “The Teachings are the way, the truth, and the life!
Joh 14:6 Yeshua said to him, “The Torah is the way, the truth, and the life!
Joh 14:6 Yeshua said to him, “God is the way, the truth, and the life!

Questions for Robert
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the “Teaching/Torah”. The “Teaching/Torah” was with God, and the “Teaching/Torah” was God.

Just how many Torah or Teachings are their?
Answer – only One Ture Torah = Only One True Teaching = Only one True God

Questions for Robert
The word = Teachings = Torah = God
Joh 1:14 And the “Teaching/Torah” became flesh and tabernacled among us.
God incarnate – Jesus Christ = God in the flesh
Why do you deny scripture – you say this is impossible? – how can Jesus pray to the Father if they are not two completely different gods – is your argument

Questions for Robert
Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Ruach ha-Kodesh whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I said to you.
Who is the Teacher of the Teachings – Who is the Teacher of the Torah
The agl answer is the Holy Spirit

Just how many Teachers, Torah, or Teachings are their?
Answer – only One Ture Torah = Only One True Teaching = Only one True God
God = Christ = Jesus Christ = God incarnate
God = Holy Spirit that teaches the Torah

Only one True God
He teaches us in person = Jesus Christ = God incarnate
He teaches us by the Sprit – the Holy Spirit

Christians call this a Trinity – One God in three persons

100% Jewish 100% Hebrew 100% Mainstream Christianity – 0% Roberts view

As I reread this - I wish to add
2:20 – Jesus emptied Himself of Himself to make room for God’s Teachings
YES – all men are (yester tov- spirit) + (yestar ra – biology)
Most men walk around as – (yester tov) + (YESTER RA)
Jesus emptied Himself to be (YESTER TOV) + (yester ra) (I would make it smaller if proboards allowed)

man = (yester tov) + (yester ra) and most men walk around as (yester tov) + (YESTER RA)
(yester tov) is there in the background - our consciuos - that part of us that knows we did wrong
But (yester ra) is the dominate force in outr lives - the part that decided to choose wrong (selfishness)

This in itself does not make man evil - it makes man SELF as in self-preservation instinct
Sin = disobeying God - transgression of the Law - without a law there is no sin (Rom 5:13)
As our (yester ra) takes on the world - because it has to - it is focused upon the World
In the proces we transgress the Law in many ways without even realizing it - unintentional

BOOM - all men are sinners (Rom 3:23) there is none righteous - no not one (Rom 3:10, Psa 14:1-3, Psa 53:1-3)

Two types of Christian - believers
Believers = (yester tov) + (yester ra)
(yester ra) has been awakened - brought to the forefront of your life
But (yester ra) is still the dominate force - because we are biology - we hunger, thirst, and desire

This become our inner struggle - do what I know is right or do what I want to do
As a Christian used car salesman - can I cheat the customer out of as much profit as possible?
Do I really sell a broken car to a sweet old lady on a fixed income and overcharge her in the process?
As a Christian - your (yester tov) conscious speak very loudly in your ear

American believers of the 1980s coined the phrase - "What would Jesus do?" - WWJD merchadising was everywhere
In your daily choice - stop and consider - "What would Jesus do?"

American believers often feel good about themselves - witness of their accomplishments - their positions within the church or community - many preachers put on a really good show - charsimatic - preach wealth

Two types of Christian - Born Again - Spirit Filled - Spirit led
(HS + Yester tov - our spirit) + (yester ra- biology)

The Holy Spirit (Teacher/Torah) empowers our spirit (yester tov) - teaches our spirit - emboldens our spirit - so we can become the teacher - to Jer 1:5 witness God's Glory to all the nations of the World - for all the heavens to see

When we lay on the hands - it is not us / our (yester tov) - we are only a doorway for the HS to flow through - I am not the healer the Holy Spirit is the healer / God is the healer

Just for Robert I will also say
Am I making the claim that we are (HS+spirit)+(biology) all the time -
HOW ARROGANT WOULD THAT BE?
It is the goal - and we pray for it without ceasing - but, our own (yester ra-biology) is always there reminding us we are just animals - and guilty of acting like animals

American believers often feel good about themselves - DID PAUL?

Rom 7:22  For I delight in the Torah of God with respect to the inner man, 
Rom 7:23  but I see a different law in my body parts, battling against the law of my mind and bringing me into bondage under the law of sin which is in my body parts. 
Rom 7:24  Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 
Rom 7:25  Thanks be to God—it is through Messiah Yeshua our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself serve the Torah of God; but with my flesh, I serve the law of sin. 

Rich wants me to add
When we lay on the hands - it is not us / our (yester tov) - we are only a doorway for the HS to flow through - I am not the healer the Holy Spirit is the healer / God is the healer

When some speak in tongues - we must remember we are witnessing to this world and to the heavens.
Perhapse it is an angelic tongue designed for another to hear
How do we know? How can Robert be so sure it is just rubbush

[Deleted]

In the beginning was the teachings and the teachings was elohiym power, and the teachings became flesh.

This is the same as the Hebrew word "imrah" , meaning the WORDS of the FATHER personified by Jesus the WORDS of the Father.

Jeff is saying the faith in a community is more important than it's individual.

Jesus emptied himself and took upon himself all the words of His Father.

This is the same idea of marriage, a woman empties herself and takes upon her all the wishes of her husband. And they become one flesh. Not two flesh, but one.

When one heart cell empties itself and takes up the DNA teachings to be a heart organ, all the cells individually become one organ, not separate cells.

They support each other, ie faith.

Our heart is not a tissue of many cells, but one cell of flesh, echad.

This is the same idea of a Family, why in Eph 3:15 elohiyim is called a family.

SHalom

[Dave]

Jeff is saying the faith in a community is more important than it's individual.
And he is correct from an ahl view – the ahl was on a nation to nation scale
The agl was written for you – and your personal walk with God

Jesus emptied himself and took upon himself all the words of His Father.

Listen to the words of your favorite Hebrew teacher

2:00 he rewites John 1:14
Joh 1:14 And the “Teaching” became flesh and tabernacled among us.
Joh 1:14 And the “Torah” became flesh and tabernacled among us.

And God became flesh

[Deleted]

Pr 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

There are two words here of two beings, IMRAH and ELOAH

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

In the beginning was the IMRAH and the IMRAH was with elohiym powers and the IMRAH was elohiym powers.

One needs to investigate who the IMRAH was. I would say Jesus the IMRAH emptied himself and filled himself with the ELOAH words, and thus showed us the words of the Father demonstrated on earth, using faith.

SO how many BEINGS are here in the OT? I see two.
One is personifying the other, which is what faith is about.

Shalom

[Dave]

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the “Teaching/Torah”. The “Teaching/Torah” was with God, and the “Teaching/Torah” was God.
SO how many BEINGS are here in the OT? I see two.
And that is OK for the ahl and for Jewish duality

But as a Christian - Do not forget to add agl/NT Jesus Christ
Joh 1:14 And the “Teaching/Torah” became flesh and tabernacled among us.
That makes 3 = Christian TRINITY

[Deleted]

Ho 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

YHWH-JESUS makes a prophecy here, that His former torah as rain, will come again as latter torah as rain.

Not add more torah, but when the SEED begins in the OT, in the former rains, the SEEDLING makes fruit under the latter rains in the NT.

I see the rains as a complete whole, not one added to the other. Therefore the masculine members of elohiym powers have existed from eternity in this form of loving. The Provider and the collective love of a SON who continues His Father;s love over His Creation. (BN) the meaning of son.

You see the Father and the IMRAH as Jewish duality. Two expressions of one being.

I prefer to see the elohiym powers as a family power, as Eph 3:15 tells us, thus the love is make complete only when three personalities of loving are present from eternity.

There is duality also, in my view. But this relates to the way the elohiym powers are functionally expressed, ie; in personal form or spirit form, words I do not understand or wish to discuss. You say light only travels as waves, whereas I see light travels as both waves and particles, something we cannot fathom.

Shalom

[Dave]

H565 אֶמְרָה - 'imrâh - commandment, speech, word.

You see the Father and the IMRAH as Jewish duality. Two expressions of one being.

Nope – one big fat singularity called the Trinity - the Word is the Father - scripture is clear
Why do you work so hard to deny scripture

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the “Teaching / Torah”. The “Teaching / Torah” was with God, and the “Teaching / Torah” was God.

Joh 1:14 And the “Teaching / Torah” became flesh and tabernacled among us.

100% Jeff Brenner’s teaching – in total agreement with all mainstream Christianity

[Deleted]

Dave's view

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the “Teaching of the Father's Words”. The “Teaching of the Father's Words” was with God, and the “Teaching of the Father's Words” was God.

Joh 1:14 And the ““Teaching of the Father's Words”” became flesh and tabernacled among us.

One problem with this idea Dave. When the Father came to earth dressed in humanity to demonstrate the Father word's in person, than amanuah cannot exist as a process.

Amanuah requires one independent creature to have support for another higher power outside of that creature. Support to some other divine source called GOD.

A Father expression could not, would not show faith to the Father, who is already the Father on earth. So faith would not, could not exist.

SO in your view, you are not saved by Faith in Jesus, who also have faith in His Father.

You are saved by gnosis in the Father expressions of the Father who lived His teachings on earth. No faith is involved.

Am I correct with your view?

Joh 15:1 ¶ I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Why two entities mentioned here?

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you.

Why faith here, abide in me and I abide in you?

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Again you must abide in Jesus via faith. Without faith ye can do nothing.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:

Joh 15:10 .. I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Joh 15:10 Jesus has abide in my Father's love.

Such a statement cannot exist in your view.
Jesus lived in faith to His Father. Therefore Jesus was personifying His Father's word in Him, via faith, the same way we must do in Jesus.

1Pe 2:21 Jesus... left... us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

This example is amanuah

Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that amanuah.


Ac 16:31 And they said, Amanuah on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

The divine Being emptied Himself and took up the Father's words personified by faith. Not as you say was the Father on earth.

Something wrong with your view Dave/. Please explain

[Dave]

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the “Teaching of the Father's Words”. The “Teaching of the Father's Words” was with God, and the “Teaching of the Father's Words” was God.
Joh 1:14 And the ““Teaching of the Father's Words”” became flesh and tabernacled among us.

One problem with this idea Dave.
This entire presentation is 100% your Jeff Brenner Hebrew expert

One problem with this idea Dave. When the Father came to earth dressed in humanity to demonstrate the Father word's in person, than amanuah cannot exist as a process.
Amanuah requires one independent creature to have support for another higher power outside of that creature. Support to some other divine source called GOD.
A Father expression could not, would not show faith to the Father, who is already the Father on earth. So faith would not, could not exist.
There you go – your god cannot be in two places at the same time
So your god cannot have faith in Himself – cannot trust Himself – Jesus could not support the Father while He was on earth
YES – your god is small and limited - this is your teaching sure is not mine
Just what about omnipotent do you fail to understand?

SO in your view, you are not saved by Faith in Jesus, who also have faith in His Father.
Why do you deny scripture – all that is required is belief in Jesus Christ

Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

You are saved by gnosis in the Father expressions of the Father who lived His teachings on earth. No faith is involved.
Please quote me Robert – you refuse to listen – so you pretend you do not hear
All that is required to be saved is belief in Jesus Christ

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Am I correct with your view?
SO in your view, you are not saved by Faith in Jesus, who also have faith in His Father.
My view is that you are deliberately insulting

Why faith here, abide in me and I abide in you?
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Again you must abide in Jesus via faith. Without faith ye can do nothing.
It is called Communion – too bad you deny that it is possible

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:

1Pe 2:21 Jesus... left... us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Phillip said the same thing – you said it was Gnostic error
Christ came from God – Jer 1:5 here – and returned to God

[Deleted]

D"All that is required to be saved is belief in Jesus Christ

R" OK and from which verse do you get this idea of yours Dave?

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt amanuah in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved

Ac 16:31 And they said, Amanuah on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Joh 9:35 ¶ Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou amanuah on the Son of God?

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might amanuah that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that amanuah ye might have life through his name.
(KJV)

Show me a verse that uses daath on Jesus or gnosis on Jesus, or something different than amanuah and Hebrew words related to amanauah, such as aman, and man.

When you pray, I assume to pray "aman", that is also amanuah.

When Israel ate manna, that is man, the smallest word for amanuah. A simile for Jesus as the bread of life.

And you say you need only believe in Jesus?

Lu 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people

nice start for Dave

Ro 11:33 ¶ O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!

nice description of God

1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

wow Dave, the gnosis of Jesus is truly important, a gift to us...

1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

Does this term gnosis really mean anything else except knowledge?
What does Jeff Benner say about gnosis?

rk#:1108  / gno-sis (noun): Knowledge Freq:&29
Heb#:1844 דעה / dey-ah (noun): Comprehension—An
intimacy with a person, idea or concept.
Heb#:1847 דעת / da-at (noun): Discernment—The quality
of being able to grasp and comprehend what is obscure.
An intimacy with a person, idea or concept. Knowledge

Two suggestions, but I understand daath as one word for Greek gnosis

So Dave, where does Scripture say that salvation in Jesus is based entirely on daath and not amanuah? It doesn't.

Shalom

[Dave]

D"All that is required to be saved is belief in Jesus Christ
R" OK and from which verse do you get this idea of yours Dave?
I offered this one
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth (G4100) in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You offered
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt amanuah (G4100) in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved

Ac 16:31 And they said, Amanuah (G4100) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Joh 9:35 ¶ Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou amanuah (G4100) on the Son of God?

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might amanuah (G4100) that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that amanuah ye might have life through his name.
(KJV)

G4100 – πιστεύω - From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

You can believe in the Easter Bunny – you can believe in Santa Clause – you can believe in evolution – you can believe in Allah

And you say you need only believe in Jesus?
It is that is require – belief that Jesus Christ was God incarnate and died upon the cross for our sins

There is nothing wrong with your belief Robert – believe away – as long as your brelief is upon jesus Christ - hopefully it will lead you to a personal relationship with God

1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

wow Dave, the gnosis of Jesus is truly important, a gift to us...
Correct Robert it is a gift

1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

Does this term gnosis really mean anything else except knowledge?
Correct Robert – gnosis means knowledge – nothing more or less

What does Jeff Benner say about gnosis?
Comprehension—An intimacy with a person, idea or concept.
Personal relationship – personal knowledge – intimacy
Heb#:1847 דעת / da-at (noun): Discernment—The quality
of being able to grasp and comprehend what is obscure.
An intimacy with a person, idea or concept. Knowledge
Personal relationship – personal knowledge – intimacy

Two suggestions, but I understand daath as one word for Greek gnosis
Who cares – the goal is the illumination of self to obtain an intimate personal relationship

There are two types of Christians – believers and the Born Again
AFTER THEW RESURRECTION JESUS APPREAED TO THE DISCIPLES
Question for Robert – did the disciple belive in Jesus as the Messiah after the Resurrection?

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luk 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

If they believed in Jesus Christ as the Messiah – why did Jesus ask them to wait in Jerusalem – for the promise Jesus promised to send them
What is this promise?

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

What is this promise Jesus promised to send them - ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
If the disciples were believers – why the baptism of the Holy Spirit

Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

If the disciples were believers – why the baptism of the Holy Spirit

Over and over you ask this of me – what do you mean – spirit
So – you tell me
Please explain to me the SDA difference between the believers of Jesus Christ
And those who have been BORN AGAIN by the BAPTISM of the HOLY SPIRIT

[Dave]

Please explain the SDA difference between a believer with faith and a Born Again Christian
Answer here please

ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/541/believers-vrs-born-again?page=1&scrollTo=6880

Dec 26, 2021 9:43:25 GMT -5 Dave said:

Dec 25, 2021 20:16:27 GMT -5 Dave said:

Does this term gnosis really mean anything else except knowledge?
Correct Robert – gnosis means knowledge – nothing more or less
What does Jeff Benner say about gnosis?