Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 15:49:32 GMT -5
D" Mat 22:37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love Adonai your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
R" Why do you look to the NT for the source of the laws and commandments you follow?
This verse does not list any laws and commandments Dave, only an overall principle to love.
Specifically what laws and commands do you follow Dave?
D"Following religious rituals does not lead to salvation
R" Are you sure? What about The Lord's Ordinance?
D"Dietary laws are meaningless – to mandate dietatary laws is error and will only keep others away
R Who says this is about Dietary laws ? I thought you are a Jew familiar with Jewish laws and rules on eating foods?
D"If you are walking in the spirit – you are living the Torah
R" Really? What about this verse Dave?
Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(KJV)
No mention of walking in the spirit here, only guarding the Father's commandments and the testimony of Jesus/
What Father's commandments Dave? DO you understand this term?
D"Ra in itself is not evil -
R" I see, a Jewish commentary that empowers the survival drive in mankind. Like getting food for winter or having sex for babies. I see.
OK prove to me that RA does not come from SIN.
Ge 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
This one verse with RA destroys your view already.
RA is paralleled to yester ra of man was continually ra.
However perhaps God destroys earth, because the yester ra was flowing continually?
OK lets try another verse
Ge 8:21 ....for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth;
OK the Jewish idea seems OK, the yester ra from our youth
Ge 50:17 So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil:
Ra is associated with trespass and sin
1Ki 15:26 And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the way of his father, and in his sin wherewith he made Israel to sin.
Ra is associated with trespass and sin
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
JOb claimed not to have sinned since his salvation, so what RA is JOb talking about? Has to be the RA from other sins long before Job, or of JOB which he got from Adam, or his grandfather before him?
Isa 3:9 ¶ The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.
Ra is associated with trespass and sin, especially chataah, the sin-offering is a fruit of sinning, as RA is also a fruit of sinning, a consequence
OK Dave prove to me RA is not of itself evil? Seems to me RA is a fruit from sinning.
You have to look up ALL the lines upon LINES, not just a few, as I suspect Jews do.
D"Jude and 2 Peter tell us those sinning angels are locked away in chains
R" locked away ? , many are allowed to tempt humans to sin, just as these angels also sin.
D"all your sinning angels are held in chains – lock away in prison
R" ALL ? let's test your theory Dave?
Mr 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Why would these fallen angels ask Jesus not to torment them since they are already locked in prison on the earth?
Mr 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Several thousand fallen angels here functionally as shedim, and they are quite capable to possessing this human.
They are locked away on earth, unable to leave earth and tempt other unfallen worlds.
D"The “Church” that existed since the beginning of time – the Bride of Christ – has nothing to do with builds and denominations
R" Are you sure?
Jer 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
John 10:16-18 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
D" OK – please show your phrase to me in scripture
Where does scripture ever speak of THE SATAN?
Please list all your verse – both in English and Hebrew – in the ahl/OT
R"
Here is the first one.
Ancient Hebrew "hey" means "Behold the Being" not a being, but "the being", see Jeff Benner for more details on the meaning of this letter hey.
The definite article in Hebrew, "at" is not usually translated, NOT in this verse.
D"Gee – why don’t you take part in the satn –vrs- satans word study – you say does not exist?
R" Oh so you admit there are no serious studies on the differences between satan and satanas?
I pity you, your whole theology is based on no empirical evidence? ANd you can't show me anybody else willing to study as you do.
GREEK WORD STUDIES σατανᾶς 'satanas' meaning 'Satan' 4567
www.logosapostolic.org/greek-word-studies/4567-satanas-satan.htm
Wherever this word satanas appears in the Greek, the translation of it is highlighted with yellow.
Strong's Greek: 4567. Σατανᾶς (Satanas) -- the adversary ...
biblehub.com/greek/4567.htm
Transliteration: Satanas Phonetic Spelling: (sat-an-as') Definition: the adversary, Satan, the devil Usage: an adversary, Satan.
www.christswords.com/main/content/satan
A link more sympathetic to your view Dave. (At least I try to help you out)
"Satan" (Σατανᾶς) is from the Greek word satanas, which is an Aramaic and Hebrew word meaning "adversary," "opponent," or "one who opposes another in purpose or act." It is neither a positive or negative word, depending on who or what is opposed. Jesus uses it only thirteen times, but he uses it consistent with its Greek meaning but always in a negative sense.
Our word "Satan" is from the Greek form satanas from a Hebrew satan ( שטן) meaning "adversary," "opponent," or "one who opposes another in purpose or act. " The Greek version of this word appears initially only in thirteen times in Jesus's words. Interestingly, the Greek Septuagint usually translates the Hebrew word satan into the Greek word diabolos, which means "slanderer," (see this article) but which is translated in the English NT as "devils" or "demons." "Satan" is also translated to related words such as ἐπίβουλος, epívoulos, which means "treacherous." The Greek word Σατανᾶς appears for the first time and only time in the Greek OT at 1Ki 11:14. The story that features "Satan" most prominently, that of Job, the Greek word diabolos is used.
Why does the LXX translate ha-satan as devil in the Greek? Any reasons Dave? Why not satanas?
However, if people want to use "demons" to explain the “problem of evil,” we must be cautious. Suffering is often the natural by-product of free will and our need for a challenge in this world. It is necessary for life in this world to have any meaning at all (more about that idea here). So, in that sense, "demons" and Satan may be necessary as well.
I add this Jewish sentiment, because I makes Dave happy to read it.
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/19126/does-the-word-satan-ever-show-up-in-the-new-testament
Here is an interesting quest?
Satan is a Hebrew word that means adversary. The New Testament is written in Greek.
So I guess not.
It seems that they have another word. Diabolos or something that means the devil.
Is that devil the same guy as Satan?
Answer:
Yes. The Hebrew שָׂטָן (śāṭān) is frequently transliterated into Greek as σαταν (satan) or σατανᾶς (satanas) — 36 times in the New Testament. The word διάβολος (diabolos) is also used (37 times).
Diabolos is technically an adjective meaning “slanderous”, and it is occasionally used attributively, describing people (e.g. 1 Tim 3:11). However, like satan(as) — which in the Hebrew Bible generally refers to a/the a/Adversary — the more common NT usage is as a designation of a particular transcedent evil being.
Most English translations reflect the distinction between these words by using “Satan” for [ho] satan(as) or “the devil” for [ho] diabolos. (Both occur most often with the article ho.) For instance, in Matthew 4:1-11, the story of the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness, the narrator uses ὁ διάβολος (ho diabolos) repeatedly; Jesus addresses the same character as σατανᾶ (satana, vocative from satanas) in verse 10:
The preferred term in the Septuagint for translating the Hebrew śāṭān from into Greek is diabolos. See, for instance, Job. The only usages of the Greek transliteration satan I find are two appearances in 3 Reigns 11:14, corresponding to 1 Kings 11 vv. 14 and 25 in the Hebrew/English numbering. These refer to Hadad the Edomite and Rezon the son of Eliada - each “an adversary” raised up by God against Solomon and Israel, respectively.
Why the New Testament authors often preferred to use the transliterated Hebrew term despite the established Septuagint usage in of diabolos as a translation of śāṭān is beyond me, and probably beyond the scope of this question, but it is an interesting one.
Could it be that the LXX have a Jewish bias? We shall never know.
Sure a few confusing links exist these days, SO Dave show me the link you really approve of, that proves the satanas are archons, and the satan is a prosecuting good angel, doing a bad job?
Shalom
R" Why do you look to the NT for the source of the laws and commandments you follow?
This verse does not list any laws and commandments Dave, only an overall principle to love.
Specifically what laws and commands do you follow Dave?
D"Following religious rituals does not lead to salvation
R" Are you sure? What about The Lord's Ordinance?
D"Dietary laws are meaningless – to mandate dietatary laws is error and will only keep others away
R Who says this is about Dietary laws ? I thought you are a Jew familiar with Jewish laws and rules on eating foods?
D"If you are walking in the spirit – you are living the Torah
R" Really? What about this verse Dave?
Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(KJV)
No mention of walking in the spirit here, only guarding the Father's commandments and the testimony of Jesus/
What Father's commandments Dave? DO you understand this term?
D"Ra in itself is not evil -
R" I see, a Jewish commentary that empowers the survival drive in mankind. Like getting food for winter or having sex for babies. I see.
OK prove to me that RA does not come from SIN.
Ge 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
This one verse with RA destroys your view already.
RA is paralleled to yester ra of man was continually ra.
However perhaps God destroys earth, because the yester ra was flowing continually?
OK lets try another verse
Ge 8:21 ....for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth;
OK the Jewish idea seems OK, the yester ra from our youth
Ge 50:17 So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil:
Ra is associated with trespass and sin
1Ki 15:26 And he did evil in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the way of his father, and in his sin wherewith he made Israel to sin.
Ra is associated with trespass and sin
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
JOb claimed not to have sinned since his salvation, so what RA is JOb talking about? Has to be the RA from other sins long before Job, or of JOB which he got from Adam, or his grandfather before him?
Isa 3:9 ¶ The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.
Ra is associated with trespass and sin, especially chataah, the sin-offering is a fruit of sinning, as RA is also a fruit of sinning, a consequence
OK Dave prove to me RA is not of itself evil? Seems to me RA is a fruit from sinning.
You have to look up ALL the lines upon LINES, not just a few, as I suspect Jews do.
D"Jude and 2 Peter tell us those sinning angels are locked away in chains
R" locked away ? , many are allowed to tempt humans to sin, just as these angels also sin.
D"all your sinning angels are held in chains – lock away in prison
R" ALL ? let's test your theory Dave?
Mr 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Why would these fallen angels ask Jesus not to torment them since they are already locked in prison on the earth?
Mr 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Several thousand fallen angels here functionally as shedim, and they are quite capable to possessing this human.
They are locked away on earth, unable to leave earth and tempt other unfallen worlds.
D"The “Church” that existed since the beginning of time – the Bride of Christ – has nothing to do with builds and denominations
R" Are you sure?
Jer 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
John 10:16-18 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
D" OK – please show your phrase to me in scripture
Where does scripture ever speak of THE SATAN?
Please list all your verse – both in English and Hebrew – in the ahl/OT
R"
Here is the first one.
Ancient Hebrew "hey" means "Behold the Being" not a being, but "the being", see Jeff Benner for more details on the meaning of this letter hey.
The definite article in Hebrew, "at" is not usually translated, NOT in this verse.
D"Gee – why don’t you take part in the satn –vrs- satans word study – you say does not exist?
R" Oh so you admit there are no serious studies on the differences between satan and satanas?
I pity you, your whole theology is based on no empirical evidence? ANd you can't show me anybody else willing to study as you do.
GREEK WORD STUDIES σατανᾶς 'satanas' meaning 'Satan' 4567
www.logosapostolic.org/greek-word-studies/4567-satanas-satan.htm
Wherever this word satanas appears in the Greek, the translation of it is highlighted with yellow.
Strong's Greek: 4567. Σατανᾶς (Satanas) -- the adversary ...
biblehub.com/greek/4567.htm
Transliteration: Satanas Phonetic Spelling: (sat-an-as') Definition: the adversary, Satan, the devil Usage: an adversary, Satan.
www.christswords.com/main/content/satan
A link more sympathetic to your view Dave. (At least I try to help you out)
"Satan" (Σατανᾶς) is from the Greek word satanas, which is an Aramaic and Hebrew word meaning "adversary," "opponent," or "one who opposes another in purpose or act." It is neither a positive or negative word, depending on who or what is opposed. Jesus uses it only thirteen times, but he uses it consistent with its Greek meaning but always in a negative sense.
Our word "Satan" is from the Greek form satanas from a Hebrew satan ( שטן) meaning "adversary," "opponent," or "one who opposes another in purpose or act. " The Greek version of this word appears initially only in thirteen times in Jesus's words. Interestingly, the Greek Septuagint usually translates the Hebrew word satan into the Greek word diabolos, which means "slanderer," (see this article) but which is translated in the English NT as "devils" or "demons." "Satan" is also translated to related words such as ἐπίβουλος, epívoulos, which means "treacherous." The Greek word Σατανᾶς appears for the first time and only time in the Greek OT at 1Ki 11:14. The story that features "Satan" most prominently, that of Job, the Greek word diabolos is used.
Why does the LXX translate ha-satan as devil in the Greek? Any reasons Dave? Why not satanas?
However, if people want to use "demons" to explain the “problem of evil,” we must be cautious. Suffering is often the natural by-product of free will and our need for a challenge in this world. It is necessary for life in this world to have any meaning at all (more about that idea here). So, in that sense, "demons" and Satan may be necessary as well.
I add this Jewish sentiment, because I makes Dave happy to read it.
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/19126/does-the-word-satan-ever-show-up-in-the-new-testament
Here is an interesting quest?
Satan is a Hebrew word that means adversary. The New Testament is written in Greek.
So I guess not.
It seems that they have another word. Diabolos or something that means the devil.
Is that devil the same guy as Satan?
Answer:
Yes. The Hebrew שָׂטָן (śāṭān) is frequently transliterated into Greek as σαταν (satan) or σατανᾶς (satanas) — 36 times in the New Testament. The word διάβολος (diabolos) is also used (37 times).
Diabolos is technically an adjective meaning “slanderous”, and it is occasionally used attributively, describing people (e.g. 1 Tim 3:11). However, like satan(as) — which in the Hebrew Bible generally refers to a/the a/Adversary — the more common NT usage is as a designation of a particular transcedent evil being.
Most English translations reflect the distinction between these words by using “Satan” for [ho] satan(as) or “the devil” for [ho] diabolos. (Both occur most often with the article ho.) For instance, in Matthew 4:1-11, the story of the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness, the narrator uses ὁ διάβολος (ho diabolos) repeatedly; Jesus addresses the same character as σατανᾶ (satana, vocative from satanas) in verse 10:
The preferred term in the Septuagint for translating the Hebrew śāṭān from into Greek is diabolos. See, for instance, Job. The only usages of the Greek transliteration satan I find are two appearances in 3 Reigns 11:14, corresponding to 1 Kings 11 vv. 14 and 25 in the Hebrew/English numbering. These refer to Hadad the Edomite and Rezon the son of Eliada - each “an adversary” raised up by God against Solomon and Israel, respectively.
Why the New Testament authors often preferred to use the transliterated Hebrew term despite the established Septuagint usage in of diabolos as a translation of śāṭān is beyond me, and probably beyond the scope of this question, but it is an interesting one.
Could it be that the LXX have a Jewish bias? We shall never know.
Sure a few confusing links exist these days, SO Dave show me the link you really approve of, that proves the satanas are archons, and the satan is a prosecuting good angel, doing a bad job?
Shalom