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Post by Dave on Jan 14, 2022 4:07:03 GMT -5
D" Ooops – you just validated – skipping sleeping in the grave to life with Christ in heaven R" No Dave you are wrong , sorry, yet again, my friend. in Jesus time, no delay in sleeping, a moment away. What is all this crap about only being in the grave sleeping – if you only sleep just for a moment and enter heaven that same day?
RP"Ex 23:1 ¶ Thou shalt not raise a false report: The serpent made a false report D" The serpent did not lie R" What has earthly human definitions got to do with God's definitions of sin? Nothing You claim your desire to return to the original Hebrew Why do you disagree with your Hebrew expert – why do you deny the Hebrew words?
Now Dave, I ask you plainly, did the serpent make a false report about GOD? Yes /no? NO – the serpent did not say God committed a crime when God did not – false witness
D"Serpent was saying – Ye shall not surely die: - (until later – maybe tomorrow) R" You just answered my question? The serpent made a false report of GOD's words. Did Eve fall over dead that day? - no
D"Robert’s word game – Adam means mankind, every man , anyman, that include women Ro 5:14 - I see no mention of Eve here, only Adam? Why? Because Adam was prince over Creation, not Eve.
H120 – אָדָם - 'âdâm - From H119; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person. Robert’s word game – Adam means mankind, every man , anyman, that include women
Now Dave, I ask you plainly, did the serpent make a false report about GOD? Yes /no? What false report? (google) What do you call a person who bears false witness? Definitions of false witness. a person who deliberately gives false testimony. synonyms: perjurer.
Question: is this negating God's words "thou shalt surely die" Serpent says thou shalt not surely die? Is this a good report or a false report about God's truth in making this statement? The serpent repeated the absolute truth It is what Jeff Brenner says – it is what the Hebrew says – it is what the Jews teach
Jeff Brenner video is on this forum and on youtube Please teach everyone why Jeff brenner is wrong - and only you are right
D"WOW - I do not know how to respond to this – what was in Persia before Noah – a lake – a big hole in the ground? R" You could have said Genesis is written using our current knowledge looking back into time. Like these verses suggest. OK – what does this have to do with your proof that satan could not exist before the country of Persian was named?
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Post by Dave on Jan 14, 2022 18:26:15 GMT -5
This thread was started to showcase your Walter Veith's attack upon textual criticism He spoke of several textual differences that alter the meaning of entire sentences You appladed him - agreed - he is your guy
I followed with Jeff Brenner' attack upon textual criticism of the KJV You appladed him - agreed - he is your guy
Now you say - it doesent matter - the Roman version is close enough and your proof - Rome says so
You claim you wish to return to the Hebrew Rome has discarded complete books from your ahl/OT Now you say - it doesent matter - the Roman version is close enough and your proof - Rome says so
Robert - you have no credibility - no do not mean what you say - you just say anything as long as it is opposition
Test away - I know who you are
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2022 15:18:17 GMT -5
D"Why do you disagree with your Hebrew expert – why do you deny the Hebrew words? R" I disagree with Jeff many times, but I still admire him.
For example 7358 verb is listed as compassion, OK noun is listed as polysemy, not OK 1) bowels, belly or womb 2) compassion 3) unknown bird I would translated the noun form as "compassion-centre"
this combines the 3 words into a single meaning, while preserving the three meanings
1) a compassion-centre also can be physically a womb 2) compassion-centre is also functionally the completeness of compassion 3) compassion-centre is also a simile of a bird, ie the HS also has both of this ideas.
Jeff does not consider for words of the same spelling, verb and noun, should have similar basic meanings, but differences of action.
D"NO – the serpent did not say God committed a crime when God did not – false witness R" boy you are hard to fathom to.
DP"Serpent was saying – Ye shall not surely die: - (until later – maybe tomorrow) RP" You just answered my question? The serpent made a false report of GOD's words. D" Did Eve fall over dead that day? - no R" Actually Eve did immediately begin to die that very day, so did Adam, so did all of creation.
When God spoke ye shall surely die, what death was God speaking about?
1) spiritually our relationship would be severed 2) physically the HS covering will shrink, exposing you as naked 3) physically the penal gland functions is immediately switched off 4) spiritually the opposer is allowed to control your humanity, rather than God
Physically death, ie the separation of GOD from MAN, is a severing of the relationship, not a cessation of biochemistry, this happens after a time GOD specifies, and the first death is called a sleep.
You twist this idea of separation badly because you have a spirit that lives. Than there is not severing of relationship (after all the spirit was gifted to man by God) hence you violate the definition of death, and invent a term that is foolish. So if there is no severing of relationship there is no death, no sleep either, and you have completely destroyed the torah. You twist the severing of relationship from GOD as only the second death, where the spirit no longer exists and the body truly ends. But this is the total non-existence of man, you make the first death a release of the spirit and the second death a end of the spirit. In the Bible view, the spirit ends on the first death, but is not forgotten by God. ANd in the second death the spirit ends a second time, but this time is forgotten by GOD forever. Why are there these two deaths? So the first death in sleep can wake up and see the results of their sins, and see GOD for the first time, and understand the choices they made, it's called resurrection and judgement.
But you negate this idea and speak of the spirit under going a judgement up to many months, in fact all spirits have their own little judgments, before the one grand judgement. Is this Biblical ? no
There is only one judgement for the righteous and for the wicked. From God's view, that is two judgments, and they both happen in one time each. The righteous are being judged since 1844, for many years all the righteous are being investigated. FOr the wicked humans also judge their records for 1000 years.
So both judgments take hundreds of years to do, as every case is looked into carefully by others.
D"Jeff Brenner video is on this forum and on youtube Please teach everyone why Jeff brenner is wrong - and only you are right R" I will send this email and see what happens.....
I quote"
Greetings Jeff, in your UTube video, you say the serpent did not lie to Eve in the garden, but deceived Eve with the truth. Only from a mechanical view, can this idea be correct, but:- In the moral law, "Ex 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness" we have judgments concerning how this law is specifically guarded:- "Ex 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report:" So my question to you is, did the Serpent make a false report about God? and if so, lied? 1) Deceiving by leaving out truth, or rearranging truth, is by definition making a false report of the truth. 2) By saying ye shall be like God knowing good and evil, is not a functional thing to know, is by definition making a false report about good and evil. Scripture says to edify only the good. 3) Negating God's words, ye shall not surely die, when in fact many things died when Eve sinned, her relationship to God died/broken/severed/ she became fearful, she wanted off the path, etc. In fact negation is automatically making a false report about GOD. SO while your video is correct, your conclusion is not. If the serpent leaves out truth, rearranges truth and negates facts of the truth, this is by definition making a false report, and thus lying. Jesus said the devil/serpent was a liar from the beginning. Shalom my friend Rob "end quote
D"OK – what does this have to do with your proof that satan could not exist before the country of Persian was named? R" It proves the term satanas is not of Chaldean, but a suffix added to the stem word, which makes the word a Greek version of the Hebrew word "satan", ie the opposer, who opposes man as well as God.
The term is also used by GOD, and thus GOD also opposes man and the Devil as well. However if God reacts to man wishing to be saved, than God no longer opposes the man, only the Devil remains opposing the saved person, because that saved one will negate the devil's kingdom on earth, and bring it to an end.
D"You claim you wish to return to the Hebrew Rome has discarded complete books from your ahl/OT R" I see. OK what Hebrew words and books are you referring to, that I should support?
Show me from the Lengingrad codex a verse you love more than the KJV version, which is different according to you?
Why do you ignore the Applo COdex, the Jewish crown as it is called? Question: does the Lengingrad codex contain the Gnostic books you love?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 16, 2022 17:58:59 GMT -5
D"Why do you disagree with your Hebrew expert – why do you deny the Hebrew words? R" I disagree with Jeff many times, but I still admire him. Jeff does not consider for words of the same spelling, verb and noun, should have similar basic meanings, but differences of action. Where is your proof – what are your credentials – how many years of in depth Hebrew language and grammar have you mastered – He is an expert – you are a layman novice with zero formal educationIf you say education does not matter - then you should publish and change the worldD"NO – the serpent did not say God committed a crime when God did not – false witness R" boy you are hard to fathom to. False witness means – you say someone else did something they didn’tDP"Serpent was saying – Ye shall not surely die: - (until later – maybe tomorrow) RP" You just answered my question? The serpent made a false report of GOD's words. D" Did Eve fall over dead that day? - no R" Actually Eve did immediately begin to die that very day, so did Adam, so did all of creation. Correct – Eve became mortal that very moment - correctWhen God spoke ye shall surely die, what death was God speaking about?DUH - Both - but it is the second death you deny The second death – is death of spirit – at the Lake of Fire – at the final judgment 1) spiritually our relationship would be severedAccording to you – when God withhold the HS we just die – did Adam and Eve just die 2) physically the HS covering will shrink, exposing you as nakedYou claim man has n spirit – we are just the HS – so when the HS is removed Adam and Eve should have fallen over dead 3) physically the penal gland functions is immediately switched offBiology – all you can see is biology – world 4) spiritually the opposer is allowed to control your humanity, rather than GodSo you are back to your satan ruling all men every where But you say all men have no spirit – we are just the HS empowered animals So Your satan rules your HS Again – your satan strong – God is weak – and is actually ruled by your satanD"Jeff Brenner video is on this forum and on youtube Please teach everyone why Jeff brenner is wrong - and only you are right R" I will send this email and see what happens..... I quote" Greetings Jeff, in your UTube video, you say the serpent did not lie to Eve in the garden, but deceived Eve with the truth. Only from a mechanical view, can this idea be correct, but:- In the moral law, "Ex 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness" we have judgments concerning how this law is specifically guarded:- "Ex 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report:" So my question to you is, did the Serpent make a false report about God? and if so, lied?Then you agree with God’s partial statement – one sin and you die a mortal death and you have no chance at eternal life1) Deceiving by leaving out truth, or rearranging truth, is by definition making a false report of the truth.No it is not – only in your definition of words does deception = a lie2) By saying ye shall be like God knowing good and evil, is not a functional thing to know, is by definition making a false report about good and evil. Scripture says to edify only the good.So your god is in error because he knows the difference between tov and ra – this is not a good thing3) Negating God's words, ye shall not surely die, Christian truth – John 3:16 – so that we will not perish but have eternal life Why do you dent this most important Christian principle, precept, teachingD"OK – what does this have to do with your proof that satan could not exist before the country of Persian was named? R" It proves the term satanas is not of Chaldean Why do you deny scripture – you misrepresent scripture and think your smart Rev 12:9 … the great dragon … the ancient serpent, called the devil and satan, who deceives the whole world. Where is Persian – on a different planet?D"You claim you wish to return to the Hebrew Rome has discarded complete books from your ahl/OT R" I see. OK what Hebrew words and books are you referring to, that I should support?(google) How is the Hebrew bible different than the king James version?There’s actually a lot of differences theologically and based on the language used and how it was translated. An example: In Isaiah Chapter 9 there is a verse (Christian version) For to us a child shall be born, to us a son will be given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace Note: This is a verse Christians will quote and say “This is Jesus prophesied” The fact about this is that it is translated differently by the Roman Empire to make it look like Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament. You’ll see from this example that the meaning has been changed in the Christian Bible to make it look like a prophecy has been made when in fact it was originally past tense and speaking of an earlier event. There are many examples of these types of changes and much worse in the Christian Bible.YES – the translators of the KJV used a Christian biasYou yourself asked – Why is the word Spirit capitalizedRom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Answer - the translators of the KJV used a Christian biasWhy do you ignore the Applo COdex, the Jewish crown as it is called?Who says I do – it is important that it helps validate / correct the oldest COMPLETE Hebrew Bible Question: does the Leningrad codex contain the Gnostic books you love?1- It is Hebrew literature – it does not contain the agl/NT – or the writings of the First Christians 2- The Leningrad Codex is not the entirety of Hebrew scripture – it is only the TanakThere were many other titles that the Jews preserved and appreciated and helped form the Jewish theology – Rabbinic theology – the theology of Jesus Christ, His disciples, His audience, and the First Christians that were all (mostly) Messianic Jews(wiki) All King James Bibles published before 1666 included the ApocryphaAnd it came from the Jewish Temple Librarywww.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-apocrypha-and-pseudepigrapha… these books … can help to provide a context for the understanding of the origins of Christianity. No longer was rabbinic Judaism to form the primary basis for comparison with the earliest Christian literature, but rather the Jewish literature of the Second Temple Period, and particularly the Pseudepigrapha, could contribute much insight, making the Jewish origin of Christianity more comprehensible.the Jewish literature of the Second Temple Period – BEFORE CHRIST – preparing the way for the MessiahIf you do not know the inter-testament period – you do not understand the significance of Chanukah Or the significance of the REDEDICATION of the Temple Or the introduction of – salvation of the soul and resurrection of the dead Or the influence of Tammuz worship within Judaism (Dec 25th, lent Esterer Sun day with Easter eggs and ham) This does not even include the Jewish Kabbalah or the MidRashPOINT – there is a lot more information available than Rome allows you to considerRobert keeps claiming his desire to return to the meaning of the original Hebrew – but Rome prevents him from even looking at it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2022 14:03:28 GMT -5
D" Where is your proof – what are your credentials – how many years of in depth Hebrew language and grammar have you mastered – He is an expert – you are a layman novice with zero formal education If you say education does not matter - then you should publish and change the worldR" I am a student of Jeff, and I listen and learn from him. Jeff is under the pressure to comply with the popular vote in the Hebrew world, while I am not. I just seek what I see as truth and follow it's implications. He went to record a record. Same basic word, same basic meaning, only differences in action. He went to love her with his love. Same basic idea, only differences in action. The plough went out to plough all day. This is a Hebrew verse, one that can be done in English easily. Jeff taught me this idea, but does not follow this himself. D" False witness means – you say someone else did something they didn’tR" means more than that, Scripture says a true report is looking out for the other person and edifying him, not making anything dysfunctional about him. A good example of this is Jeff Benner explaining how God left out details to Abram about Sarah's old age and past child birth. God did not lie, God just didn't seek to spoil Abram's soul with discouragement. The serpent on the other hand, might have told the "truth" as Jeff explains, and thus deceived Eve with truth, but the word " Deceived" implies a dysfunction notion on the serpent's part, hence a false report and thus a lie. D" Correct – Eve became mortal that very moment - correctR" Hmm? your words imply Eve lost her immortality after eating the fruit. If immortality is given to man, by eating the correct fruit, than yes, Eve lost her immortality. Only God is immortal. D" According to you – when God withhold the HS we just die – did Adam and Eve just dieR" You should read my website more. I would read all your website, but you do not publish your views nor do you bother to support your views with Gnsotic and Hebrew texts. spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htmI have an image of the medium showing a focal point, the word in Hebrew means to cross over, this is called in science a focal point, where the properties of light cross over, and the image changes properties. I would not say the HS is withheld, no, we walk in the medium and our relationship to GOD changes. These affects from walking are properties of the medium. D" You claim man has no spirit – we are just the HS – so when the HS is removed Adam and Eve should have fallen over deadR" No, can't you after all our posts, make my view correct? D" Biology – all you can see is biology – worldR" Well the opposite of biology is spirit, your ethereal notion of something you do not know, but follow implicitly without any Bible evidence. D" So you are back to your satan ruling all men every where But you say all men have no spirit – we are just the HS empowered animals So Your satan rules your HS Again – your satan strong – God is weak – and is actually ruled by your satanR " Rabbi Singer video asked the game "what if" What if there was no Satan as I see satan. Would man sin? Absolutely yes. Singer says absolutely not. Dave also seems to say absolutely not. Mankind has the Hebrew word "baal" in verb and noun forms, meaning master. Man can be a idol of how own mastery, and do things under SELF. no need for an agent to help him sin, we can sin by ourselves. Does Satan rule humans via the medium, posing a dysfunctional medium to humans? Yes, Bible verse for this idea? Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. How is it you see the word archon here but fail to see that the archons also rule the darkness?
D" No it is not – only in your definition of words does deception = a lieR" My definition is the Bible definition. Prove me wrong. Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. All things are reported functionally. Ro 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. All things must lift up the other person functionally. 1Co 10:23 ¶ All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not. Anything dysfunction must be avoided. Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. My principal told us, say to your kids, as a teacher; one functional thing, one dysfunctional thing and one thing that could be improved. That is a good advice for a fallen world. D" Why do you deny this most important Christian principle, precept, teaching?R" I do not deny this, you deny the word "Faith" is in this verse. www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen1.pdfD" An example: In Isaiah Chapter 9 there is a verse (Christian version) For to us a child shall be born, to us a son will be given,band the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
Note: This is a verse Christians will quote and say “This is Jesus prophesied”R" For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. ( leningrad codex version) Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.(KJV) R" OK explain how the Leningrad COdex differs from the KJV? D" You’ll see from this example that the meaning has been changed in the Christian Bible to make it look like a prophecy has been made when in fact it was originally past tense and speaking of an earlier event. There are many examples of these types of changes and much worse in the Christian Bible.
YES – the translators of the KJV used a Christian biasR" I do not see any differences? D" The contribution of the study of the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha to the understanding of the New Testament should not be underrated.R" I read these books many years ago, in an older KJV version, but how do they help? D" POINT – there is a lot more information available than Rome allows you to considerR" OK, so tell me how does one get more and more faith in Jesus? Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. This is the only information we really need, to gnosis, wouldn't you agree? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 18, 2022 17:30:24 GMT -5
D" Where is your proof – what are your credentials – how many years of in depth Hebrew language and grammar have you mastered – He is an expert – you are a layman novice with zero formal education If you say education does not matter - then you should publish and change the world R" I am a student of Jeff, and I listen and learn from him. Unless you disagree with your teacher and turn him off
D"False witness means – you say someone else did something they didn’t R" means more than that, Scripture says a true report is looking out for the other person and edifying him, not making anything dysfunctional about him. Why do you misrepresent others here – why do you deliberately misrepresent me, this ministry, this form, and the reality of the archon
You know better – yet you choose to post it any way – please explain to me how it is considered respect – or honesty – or anything other than a false witness
A good example of this is Jeff Benner explaining how God left out details to Abram about Sarah's old age and past child birth. God did not lie, God just didn't seek to spoil Abram's soul with discouragement. The serpent on the other hand, might have told the "truth" as Jeff explains, and thus deceived Eve with truth, YES – the serpent told the truth but the word "Deceived" implies a dysfunction notion on the serpent's part, hence a false report and thus a lie. 2 options (1) God is a liar just like the serpent – or (2) the truth is - hence a false report and thus a lie. Is this your conclusion – the truth is a false report and God is a liar
Scripture says Eve was deceived – the serpent did not lie You Robert word game is a total error
D"Correct – Eve became mortal that very moment - correct R" Hmm? your words imply Eve lost her immortality after eating the fruit. Correct – Adam and Eve were created immortal (never suffering a mortal death) Only God is immortal. Your Robert word game is error – by a dictionary – I am tired of defining the word for you You do not want to learn – you only want to oppose everything – I know who you are
D"You claim man has no spirit – we are just the HS – so when the HS is removed Adam and Eve should have fallen over dead R" No, can't you after all our posts, make my view correct? OK - finally – present you correct view Man has no spirit of his own – impossible – absolutely deny Man is biology empowered by the Holy Spirit – take the HS away and we die When man dies – he has no spirit – only the HS takes man’s memories to heaven Absolutely no spiritual being in heaven – impossible – no such this as a spirit being So you an=gels are just the HS – and your satan is just the HS – because a separate god call the Holy Spirit is the only spirit and evening is just small fraction of the HS – the religion is call pantheism Now you will say I do not understand what a medium is So explain how there is no such thing as spirit
What if there was no Satan as I see satan. Would man sin? Absolutely yes. Dave also seems to say absolutely not. Both Rabbi Singer and Dave see the satan as the Beast of Revelation – the world around us
Mankind has the Hebrew word "baal" in verb and noun forms, meaning master. Man can be a idol of how own mastery, and do things under SELF. no need for an agent to help him sin, we can sin by ourselves. Correct – there is no need for your Catholic god of evil – (yester ra) the world and the archon is all that reality has to offer
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Darkness – ignorance of salvation – ignorance of the Lord – denial of what we already know inside within the inner man
How is it you see the word archon here but fail to see that the archons also rule the darkness? They do promote ignorance – that is their function / mission – to keep man focused upon the world so he has no time to devote to the HS
D"Why do you deny this most important Christian principle, precept, teaching? R" I do not deny this, you deny the word "Faith" is in this verse. Belief – not death but everlasting life - what is their to deny?
R" OK explain how the Leningrad COdex differs from the KJV? D"You’ll see from this example that the meaning has been changed in the Christian Bible to make it look like a prophecy has been made when in fact it was originally past tense and speaking of an earlier event. There are many examples of these types of changes and much worse in the Christian Bible.
YES – the translators of the KJV used a Christian bias R" I do not see any differences? Because you deny grammar and syntax and you violate dispensation The argument = THE PAST TENSE VERB DOES NOT A FUTURE PREDICTION MAKE
D"The contribution of the study of the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha to the understanding of the New Testament should not be underrated. R" I read these books many years ago, in an older KJV version, but how do they help? CONTEXT – DUH – is that more 9th grade reading comprehension? How did the audience know what Jesus was talking about when he spoke of Belzeebub? How did the audience of the agl/NT suppose to understand Jude's reference to the prophesy of Enoch? Why wasn't anyone confused when jesus said - by the Righ Hand THE ANSWER = CONTEXT Robert says the only context that matters is Roman doctrine
D"POINT – there is a lot more information available than Rome allows you to consider R" OK, so tell me how does one get more and more faith in Jesus? Has nothing to do with faith – faith / belief / bring Born Again We study the scripture to understand the message – the teachings – uncover the reality – our reality – and our place / our role within that reality
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. This is the only information we really need, to gnosis, wouldn't you agree? Absolutely no one is denying that belief is all that is required for salvation Absolutely no one is denying that believe can grow stronger and richer and held with much conviction
You are the one that denies the next step – to become Born Again and filled with gifts that will empower your witness You choose not to serve the Lord – just reap the benefits of being saved But the goal – it to become Elisha not his servant The goal is to become Paul – not the religious authority The goal is to Love the Lord with all you heart – mind – as SOUL – the rest will take care of itself
You are the one that denies the next step - and actively preaches against Judaism and mainstream Christianity in favor of Roman doctrine and in the defense of your satan god
You are the one that denies the next step - and actively preaches again the idea of One True God
You are the one that denies the next step - and have done everything you can think of to deny the reality of the archon - our real struggel as Christains.
Scripture says they were created by Him for Him - You are the one that denies scripture
By denying all of Judaism and all of Mainstream Christianity - just who do you serve?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2022 14:42:07 GMT -5
D"Scripture says Eve was deceived – the serpent did not lie You Robert word game is a total error R" Scripture say lying also is about making a false report about GOD. Did the serpent make a false report or not?
(1) Does knowing evil, open your eyes? Answer hell no. Do I have to experience death in order to know living?
Must I learn to cry in order the be happy?
So it is OK for love NOT to be responded too? Answer NO, love is a circuit of providing and responding.
D"Correct – Adam and Eve were created immortal R" Only God is immortal.
Why was the tree of life in the middle of the Garden too, and eating it's fruit made you live forever?
Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever
SO God never created mankind immortal, we become immortal only by eating the powers from GOD.
Your statement is wrong. Only God is immortal.
( I read the rest of your post, but will stop here)
Shalom and enjoy your Dave. I have to get ready for work.
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Post by Dave on Jan 20, 2022 15:37:03 GMT -5
D"Scripture says Eve was deceived – the serpent did not lie YouR Robert word game is a total error R" Scripture say lying also is about making a false report about GOD. Did the serpent make a false report or not? - NO it is not a lie - it is a deceptionA good example of this is Jeff Benner explaining how God left out details to Abram about Sarah's old age and past child birth. God did not lie, God just didn't seek to spoil Abram's soul with discouragement. The serpent on the other hand, might have told the "truth" as Jeff explains, and thus deceived Eve with truth, YES – the serpent told the truthbut the word "Deceived" implies a dysfunction notion on the serpent's part, hence a false report and thus a lie. 2 options (1) God is a liar just like the serpent – or (2) the truth is - hence a false report and thus a lie.Is this your conclusion – the truth is a false report and God is a liar Scripture says Eve was deceived – the serpent did not lieYour Robert word game is a total error 2 options (1) God is a liar just like the serpent – or (2) the truth is - hence a false report and thus a lie.Does knowing evil, open your eyes? Answer hell no. Do I have to experience death in order to know living? Why do you work so hard to deny scripture – student - Chistian Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. D"Correct – Adam and Eve were created immortal R" Only God is immortal. Why was the tree of life in the middle of the Garden too, and eating it's fruit made you live forever?DUH – no mortal death = immortalRepeat – D "Correct – Adam and Eve were created immortal – but they became mortal with they disobeyed
Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: … Does knowing evil, open your eyes? Answer hell noOnly if you want to see the world through God’s eyes – only if you wish to know the truth of your reality and your place within it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2022 14:34:00 GMT -5
Both times, for both questions, you refuse to answer correctly
I will try again
D"DUH – no mortal death = immortal Repeat – D "Correct – Adam and Eve were created immortal – but they became mortal with they disobeyed
R" No Dave, you twist again. Adam and Eve were created perfect with a perfect connection to GOD, which included eating the fruit daily from the Tree of Life, which is a symbol of the POWERS of GOD. They would remain living forever because they were allowed to eat from the tree of life.
Does this mean they were immortal? No it doesn't mean that, Only God is immortal. Muslims say if God is immortal and Jesus is immortal, how could Jesus die, and thus become mortal? The problem with this thinking, is the definition of death is wrong. Death is not a change in your created status. Something immortal can not ever become something mortal, and than later on, become immortal again. Immortality has to refer to something about a quality of divinity. Divinity cannot lose divinity. Nor can divinity pass on some qualities of divinity unto matter who are created creatures.
Therefore death is defined by me, and by Scriptures as the broken relationship to God, the separation of the divine members of elohiym from each other. (or the separation of created creatures from GOD, who alone in living)
Now this is an absurd notion for the Jew, because they see GOD an cardinally one. One wonders how love within GOD could function because cardinally one being cannot show love within itself, only selfish love, which by definition is not love at all, nor could such a being provide love and wait for creatures to respond, such love is not within itself, and such divinity would be lonely, just as Adam was lonely seeing all the creatures of each kind came in the personalities of love, Adam notice his lacked this loving ability within himself. God wanted Adam to feel this loss of love on purpose to demonstrate to us, what elohiym is. It is a family of love.
Something the Jew cannot fathom, or refuses to fathom.
Jesus called out el, el why are you forsaking Yeshuah? Meaning, Mother, Father, why are you leaving your Son. Such a broken relationship causes the sleep of death, as we humans understand this.
So when Adam missed having a perfect relationship to God, they immediately began to die, and the Scripture definition implies. Not die in the future, but die while still connected in a broken fashion to God. Why still living despite a broken relationship? Because God is also kind. The devil who sinned did not die either, so the serpent reasoned incorrectly "ye shall not surely die" is in fact a false report.
Knowing RA like GOD does, is also not functional to know, is also a false report.
Now Dave I would not expect you to fathom my presentation here, because you seem to have a different God to me, that seems to enjoy working with RA on purpose. I pity you and Jews like Rabbi Singer who think GOD creates RA on purpose as a part of the balance as you term it, we live with ra and tov.
You ignore the other tree, was not called a tree of RA, for pure evil cannot exist without GOD to begin with, so GOD had to create this tree for the serpent, to represent the serpent, as the serpents POWER, figured as a tree, also in the middle of the garden. SO the tree is called tov and RA, showing that evil cannot exist on it's own, unless God creates evil and sin and sinners who sin, on purpose, Normally such beings cannot exist under GOD.
You even twist to think RA is required to develop free will. NO, under GOD there is no other kind of living except TOV, and if you ever tried to sin again in heaven, assuming God allowed a sinner to be there, you would not sin, and thus use free will, no, you would immediately cease to exist. Ra of any kind is not tolerated by GOD, so for me, there is no free will at all with God, only the ability to reason. God will never be kind to any creature reasoning to live away from GOD, sin never rises a second time, not ever through out eternity.
My concept of GOD is one who creates perfectly without any RA present. Even the law of thermodynamics will cease to exist, along with friction, and heat losses. All animals are vegetarian, no decomposers, no rain, no snow and no umbra shadows even.
It is a world we cannot fathom, indeed nothing about God can we humans fathom. But Scripture does present things you seem to ignore.
You agree deception is something the serpent did. OK
Is deception functional or dysfunctional according to man living presently with GOD in the Garden of Eden?
Answer, it must be dysfunction because they were kicked out of the Garden. If a creature causes another creature to become dysfunctional, than the creature that causes mischief, must pay the penalty for such mischief, His life for their life.
Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Did the serpent cause mischief to Adam and Eve? yes
Was the womb of the HS around these children disrupted by the serpent? yes
Did the matrix covering shrink around them exposing their nakedness? Yes
Where is this figure written again in the NT?
Re 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
This time the child is Jesus, but the serpent again tries to do mischief.
It is a parallel back to Eden, so we see the figures of poetry correctly paralleled.
How is this presentation and action of the serpent presented?
Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Re 12:14 (And there was war on earth:) And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness,
The serpent continues to do mischief. The serpent made a false report. Therefore the serpent sinned against God as well, as deceiving the humans.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 22, 2022 15:51:46 GMT -5
D"DUH – no mortal death = immortal Repeat – D "Correct – Adam and Eve were created immortal – but they became mortal with they disobeyed
R They would remain living forever Does this mean they were immortal? YES IT DOES – no mortal death = immortal Only biology is mortal – all biology dies – except Adam and Eve would remain living forever =immortal Angels are not biology – they are not mortal – therefore they will never have a mortal death = immortal
Muslims say if God is immortal and Jesus is immortal, how could Jesus die, and thus become mortal? The problem with this thinking, is the definition of death is wrong. Correct God is immortal – Christ is immortal – Jesus was mortal
Therefore death is defined by me, and by Scriptures as the broken relationship to God, the separation of the divine members of elohiym from each other. ( Word game – Mortal death = falling down lifeless and rotting away into dust Angles will never fall down lifeless and rot into dust = immortal
One wonders how love within GOD could function because cardinally one being cannot show love within itself, only selfish love, which by definition is not love at all, nor could such a being provide love and wait for creatures to respond, such love is not within itself, and such divinity would be lonely, just as Adam was lonely seeing all the creatures of each kind came in the personalities of love, Adam notice his lacked this loving ability within himself. God wanted Adam to feel this loss of love on purpose to demonstrate to us, what elohiym is. It is a family of love. Blah blah balh – it is a nice sermon – does not rewrite the facts
Something the Jew cannot fathom, or refuses to fathom. You have a lot of nerve criticizing the Jewish people – Abraham, Solomon, David, all the prophets knew God more than you admit possible
The devil who sinned did not die either, so the serpent reasoned incorrectly "ye shall not surely die" is in fact a false report. So you agree with you satan – John 3:16 is a lie – no one can ever repent or accept salvation
Now Dave I would not expect you to fathom my presentation here, because you seem to have a different God to me, Correct – The is only One True God and he is absolute
Col 1:13 He rescued us from the domain of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son whom He loves. Col 1:14 In Him we have redemption—the release of sins. It is talking about Christ Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. The IMAGE of the Father – not a separate god Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. Absolutely all this created by Him for Him including the archon or rulers or authorities Col 1:17 He exists before everything, and in Him all holds together. He is the firstborn – yet exist before everything – and He is the medium / matrix / ether of reality
Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
that seems to enjoy working with RA on purpose. I pity you and Jews like Rabbi Singer who think GOD creates RA on purpose as a part of the balance as you term it, we live with ra and tov. We accept the word of God – we believe scripture – why don’t you
You even twist to think RA is required to develop free will. Your word game say ra = evil as in some satanic Halloween or the horror picture show by Hollywood
My concept of GOD is one who creates perfectly without any RA present. Correct you have a Feel Good God of TOV only – that kills an entire planet full of people – opend the ground and swallows dissenters – send his human army to commit genocide – and will eventually throw many into the Lake of Fire
It is a world we cannot fathom, Because it is not this world or this reality
My concept of GOD is one who creates perfectly without any RA present. Correct and since your god is only Feel Good Tov – you need another god to be responsible for the ra
You agree deception is something the serpent did. OK Is deception functional or dysfunctional If it facilitated God’s Will and God’’s Plan – NO 1 Kings 22 a deceiving spirit helps facilitate God will
Answer, it must be dysfunction because they were kicked out of the Garden. That was not the serpent’s fault – stop trying to blame another for man’s own choices
Re 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Those would be only tov pains according to you This time the child is Jesus, but the serpent again tries to do mischief.
Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Ruach Elohim was hovering upon the surface of the water.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Re 12:14 (And there was war on earth:) ON EARTH = Contest = Gen 3:15 man vrs world / man vrs archon The serpent continues to do mischief. . Therefore the serpent sinned against God as well, as deceiving the humans. It is there function – please answer the outstanding question now for over 2 years Why is it a sin to obey God?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2022 16:16:35 GMT -5
Dave asks "Why is it a sin to obey God?"
I gave you an answer long ago,
God asked a prophet once to cook meals using human dung. The prophet refused.
God once asked another prophet, to rise up and eat the food on the mat. The prophet refused.
Eze 4:14 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.
God asked a prophet once to cook meals using human dung. The prophet refused. One can only obey GOD if it is not against the torah, to obey God.
Ac 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
God once asked another prophet, to rise up and eat the food on the mat. The prophet refused. In this case God was testing Peter, if he would disobey the torah. But also teach Peter that Gentiles could come into fellowship with Jews.
Now to your faviourite twisting verse:-
1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
You claim is that, God is asking the evil spirit, and agreeing to the evil spirits intention?
That is not my claim. God is reacting to the kings desire for evil. So the Lord is asking who will facilitate this King with his desire to continue sinning? And the evil spirit, he will do it.
I see this as contest between God wanting a sinless world and the evil spirit wanting his world of sinning to also continue. I do not see these beings as friends, but opposing each other. However in this context, the opposers are courteous.
Show me a text where a righteous human willingly disobeyed the torah, but obeyed God?
De 32:39 ¶ See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand
This verse helps Dave's view
2Ki 5:7 And it came to pass, when the king of Israel had read the letter, that he rent his clothes, and said, Am I God, to kill and to make alive, that this man doth send unto me to recover a man of his leprosy? wherefore consider, I pray you, and see how he seeketh a quarrel against me.
This verse helps Dave's view
Jos 5:5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.
Why didn't Israel obey the torah?
Jos 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
This is a sort of judgement death, all the living die, including animals.
Jos 7:3 And they returned to Joshua, and said unto him, Let not all the people go up; but let about two or three thousand men go up and smite Ai; and make not all the people to labour thither; for they are but few.
I see human strength war here, and it fails because of one sin from Achan.
Jos 7:11 Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them:
Jos 9:14 And the men took of their victuals, and asked not counsel at the mouth of the LORD.
Again Israel is sometimes good and sometimes falling into sin.
Jos 10:37 And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein.
Again a judgement war, no living is allowed to remain.
Is not GOD allowed to do his strange act and bring judgement upon sinning sinners?
Present your case Dave. Which Scriptures say a different view of God.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 23, 2022 17:22:44 GMT -5
Dave asks "Why is it a sin to obey God?" I gave you an answer long ago, Show me a text where a righteous human willingly disobeyed the torah, but obeyed God?
Exo 20:4 Do not make for yourself a graven image , or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or on the earth below or in the water under the earth. Exo 25:18 Also make two cheruvim of gold, from hammered work, at the two ends of the atonement cover. According to Robert this can only mean an angel
Exo 20:13 Do not murder. Orders for genocide x 7 + Eye for and eye
Exo 20:15 Do not steal. Plunder of property x 7
Now to your faviourite twisting verse:- 1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. You claim is that, God is asking the evil spirit, and agreeing to the evil spirits intention?
1Ki 22:19 Micaiah then continued, “Therefore hear the word of Adonai. I saw Adonai sitting on His throne, with all the hosts of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on His left. There are two groups of host here – some on the right hand – some on the left hand 1Ki 22:20 Then Adonai said, ‘Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ One suggested this and another that, 1Ki 22:21 until a certain spirit came forward and stood before Adonai and said, ‘I will entice him.’ So Adonai asked him, ‘How?’ It is spirit from the left hand (evil spirit)? – Does not say – could be from the right hand(angels)
1Ki 22:22 And he said: ‘I will go and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said: ‘You shall entice him and shall prevail also—go and do so.’ AND – “And he said: ‘I will go and be a deceiving spirit…’” – BOOM = function
Then (GOD) said: ‘You shall entice him and shall prevail also—go and do so.’ – Boom = God Will – facilitating God’s Plan
De 32:39 ¶ See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand This verse helps Dave's view What happened to your Feel Good God that is only TOV? According to you – your God is not allowed – moral law
Jos 5:5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised. Why didn't Israel obey the torah?
The Rape of War – young women as prizes or soils of war is an aspect of war throughout history – The rape of Nan-King, China This is an interesting cultural aspect of the ancient Jewish people – never known for doing this (ancient times) – not as a culture
Jos 5:1 Now it came about when all the Amorite kings beyond the Jordan westward and all the Canaanite kings by the sea heard how Adonai had dried up the waters of the Jordan before Bnei-Yisrael until they had crossed, their heart melted, nor was there any spirit in them anymore, because of Bnei-Yisrael.
God’s chosen people are now knee deep in Amorite / Rephiem / Nephilim territory – The point is racial purity – genetic purity
Jos 5:2 At that time Adonai said to Joshua, “Make yourself flint knives and circumcise again Bnei-Yisrael a second time.”
Not only were the young circumcised for the first time – the elders were circumcised for the second time
What happens next Jos 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Defeated by an entire army of freshly circumcised men – no rape
Is not GOD allowed to do his strange act and bring judgement upon sinning sinners? NOT according to you – your God is TOV only – can do no harm – Feel Good God
Present your case Dave. Which Scriptures say a different view of God. My God is the God of balance – as witnessed by creation – the intelligent design is unmistakable
Rom 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse—
Psa 19:2 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork.
Balance in nature = tov and ra in balance – birth – life – death – followed by rebirth
Gen 1:31 So God saw everything that He made, and behold it was very good. So there was evening and there was morning—the sixth day.
Isa 11:3 His delight will be in the fear of Adonai. He will not judge by what His eyes see, nor decide by what His ears hear. Isa 11:4 But with righteousness He will judge the poor, and decide with fairness for the poor of the land. He will strike the land with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.
But with righteousness … decide with fairness – FAIRNESS - balance He will strike the land - He will slay the wicked Your Feel Good God of TOV only doing ra
Mat 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring shalom on the earth; I did not come to bring shalom, but a sword. Mat 10:35 For I have come to set ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; Mat 10:36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.’ Your Feel Good God of TOV only causing ra
Luk 19:27 But those hostile to me, who didn’t want me to reign over them, bring them here and execute them before me.’” Luk 19:28 After saying these things, Yeshua was going on ahead, up to Jerusalem. Your Feel Good God of TOV only doing ra
2Th 2:8 Then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Yeshua will slay him with the breath of His mouth and wipe him out with the appearance of His coming. Your Feel Good God of TOV only doing ra
Rev 19:11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The One riding on it is called Faithful and True, and He judges and makes war in righteousness. Your Feel Good God of TOV only doing ra
Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. I, Adonai, do all these things.
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. All was created through Him and for Him. All was created through Him and for Him.
Rev 4:11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, For You created all things, and because of Your will they existed and were created!”
Gen 1:31 So God saw everything that He made, and behold it was very good
Balance and Fair – absolute – in control – only His Will and only His Plan
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 14:32:37 GMT -5
D" According to Robert this can only mean an angelR" The text refers to making images of elpoiym powers that oppose the elohiym power in heaven. Nothing wrong with God wanting to build things so God could reside with men, D" Exo 20:13 Do not murder. Orders for genocide x 7 + Eye for and eyeR" No wounding, implying the taking away of people choosing Jesus. Does not mean if the people are far removed from Jesus, that Jesus cannot take away their living (ie chayah) D" There are two groups of host here – some on the right hand – some on the left hand Yes, there are ? How do we find out why this is?Mt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. I get the impression, God was dividing those from the sinless from those who sin. The evil spirit that came from the sinning group would have been their leader, ie the OPPOSER of God. You ignore the fact that sinning makes you naturally opposing God by definition. Even Missler talks of fallen angels who by definition, sinned against God, hence this group is mentioned here, D" AND – “And he said: ‘I will go and be a deceiving spirit…’” – BOOM = function
Then (GOD) said: ‘You shall entice him and shall prevail also—go and do so.’ – Boom = God Will – facilitating God’s PlanR" You read too much into the text. Satan is the chief opposer and thus a leader of the sinning group, to lead other humans to sin. This sinning group was already set up by sinners long ago, not ordained by God, only acknowledged by God. D" What happened to your Feel Good God that is only TOV? According to you – your God is not allowed – moral lawR If you look at the text closely it says "muwth contrasted with chayah" in other words God is saying I can separate from you (muwth) or remain with you (chayah) If it said "muwth/chay" I would agree with you. chayah is the meaning of breathing salvation or ongoing living to sinners who choose to live sinless living. God does not kill you (chay), or remove his probation from you, but; only the choices you make, ie the (chayah) to choose salvation or not. D"D efeated by an entire army of freshly circumcised men – no rapeR" Interesting point you make Rp" I s not GOD allowed to do his strange act and bring judgement upon sinning sinners? D" NOT according to you – your God is TOV only – can do no harm – Feel Good GodR" you are wrong, God can and does remove chayah from wicked people, it is called His judgement. D"B alance in nature = tov and ra in balance – birth – life – death – followed by rebirthR" Einstein would disagree with you. youtu.be/JnUOLbHRQ8EGod would never create friction even if God wanted to, because friction opposes God and would be a dysfunctional thing to God. But friction could arise from curses to God's power evading all the universe. Your premise makes God less than absolute and less than almighty. So you are wrong with you view. D" But with righteousness … decide with fairness – FAIRNESS - balance He will strike the land - He will slay the wicked Your Feel Good God of TOV only doing raR" If God was a tov/RA GOD than God could not judge the sinner, who also does TOV/RA, could He? Your view is wrong. But if GOD is only TOV and the sinless TOV chooses to do RA, thus becomes TOV/RA, than GOD can judge the sinner fairly. God can create RA and choose to use RA since the sinner is already doing both Tov and RA, but these actions of GOD are embedded in the sin problem caused by the sinner. Not a part of God's ultimate will. D" Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. I, Adonai, do all these things. R" Yes because of the sin problem. You ignore the context. Light/darkness God is light, God is not a balance of light and darkness. So your view is wrong. Einstein says darkness does not exist. He is right. Darkness is only the absence of light. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 24, 2022 16:14:59 GMT -5
D"According to Robert this can only mean an angel R" The text refers to making images of elpoiym powers that oppose the elohiym power in heaven. Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Anything that is heaven – if your cherub satan is not a elohiym power – why do you say that he is?
D"Exo 20:13 Do not murder. Orders for genocide x 7 + Eye for and eye R" No wounding, Genocyde is sure wounding = ra - word game
D"What happened to your Feel Good God that is only TOV? According to you – your God is not allowed – moral law God does not kill you (chay), or remove his probation from you, but; only the choices you make, ie the (chayah) to choose salvation or not. Often He sends His chosen people to kill you
Rp" Is not GOD allowed to do his strange act and bring judgement upon sinning sinners? D" NOT according to you – your God is TOV only – can do no harm – Feel Good God R" you are wrong, God can and does remove chayah from wicked people, it is called His judgement. And God does send destruction onto millions of people – your God of Tov only
D"Balance in nature = tov and ra in balance – birth – life – death – followed by rebirth Your God is the God of TOV that does a lot of ra
Jews recognize the balance and fairness – you stuck in your feel Good God word game that does not even prove your God only can do tov
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2022 13:46:49 GMT -5
D"Anything that is heaven – if your cherub satan is not a elohiym power – why do you say that he is? R" The opposer of elohiym powers is wanting to be like the Most High, thus, by sinning and by pride against God, becomes an opposing eloiym power. I like the way you describe this claim as a fake god. Because the opposer cannot create, cannot be god, and thus in the sense is really nothing. However the opposer does have pride and can sin subtly , even deceive with truth, something God cannot do.
D"Genocyde is sure wounding = ra - word game
God cannot remove your living until you have reached the condition of never seeking Him. Such a sinning condition is possible even for some of us living out our years. God allowed 430 years for these people, and no a single person sought God except a sex worker.
D"Often He sends His chosen people to kill you R" Hmm? was this really a will of God, or a consequence of man seeking God's will with their own human strength? Please decide...
My Messanic emailers made a mistake quoting this verse
Ex 19:8 ..all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.
Big mistake here. Big sin. Big proud statement. Eze 20:25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good,
God is not mocked, a man reapeth what he sows.
I suspect this was not the way God was offering the promised land to Israel.
D"And God does send destruction onto millions of people – your God of Tov only R" Yes when the people reach the end of choosing God, such a condition is possible....
Re 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Re 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
People in the valley of decision, choose God or not choose God.
Re 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
See the people reach the end of choosing, some repent, but most do not. And are ready for the ending of their living.
I gave you this contrast before, muwth is contrasted to chayah.
God is not killing them, muwth/chay. No, they were given probation time to choose Him
The words muwth/chayah is a contrast of ending your living. Your eternal living.
D"Your God is the God of TOV that does a lot of ra Yes, as Deutronomy says
De 32:23 I will heap "RA" upon them;
Jesus heaps RA upon them. Why? Because Jesus can? or because these people are missing the powers of Jesus, and hence receive the consequence of their decisions.
Which is it?
Shalom
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