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Post by Dave on Dec 28, 2021 17:02:25 GMT -5
D"He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, R" That sounds perfectly like supporting a Great Controversy Dave?Gee just one small difference – your Great Controversy is between to opposing gods in heavenThe Gnostic Great Contest is the Gen 3:15 on the ground – the reality we exist within – between man and WORLD and man and ARCHONWhy is the Contest so hard R" you mean Great Controversy is so hard.So you admit a weak god – because it is hard for your god to struggle against your god of evilFor Jews and every Christian I have ever met – God is absoluteEvil spirits – are not independent beings – you insist they are the HS The only spirit that exist is the HS you say – no such thing as a spirit being D"Why do you teach that the HS is evil? R Try reading my website a little more : spiritualsprings.org/ss-1033.htm Most mediums are natural without personal administrators, YES – you have worldly examples – because you deny the spirit – answer the question about the baptism of the Holy SpiritD"Christ and the Father must be two different gods. R" What does different gods mean Dave? You say one is in heaven and one is on earth – they have to be two so they can talk together You absolutely deny the Trinity and the concept of One True GodHow is one heart cell different to the other heart cell? YES – you have worldly examples – because you deny the spirit – answer the question about the baptism of the Holy SpiritI would never say the Father and Jesus are different gods. no, wrong idea. You have preached that concept here for since the beginningYou deny the trinity – the concept of One true God – you insist the 3 persons must be different beings so they can works together – so love can exist This is your teaching to me D" you also need to provide scripture that the angels and archon all have a mortal death Devil and his angels are thrown into non existenceYour example does not include the good-guy angels – according to you they are mortal alsoIf you are talking about the lake of Fire – it is the second death – the death of spiritPlease provide scripture that the angels and archon all have a mortal deathD"EVERYONE KNOWS YOU DISAGREE R" Actually we have much agreement too You deny the spirit and embrace satan as the Catholic god of evilBoth satanic views spoil all your scripture
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 13:23:13 GMT -5
D"The Gnostic Great Contest is the Gen 3:15 on the ground – the reality we exist within – between man and WORLD and man and ARCHON R" And the archon conflict was never in heaven originally?
D"For Jews and every Christian I have ever met – God is absolute R" Well if your God is so absolute, why do you support the idea that GOD made natural RA both in his creation and mankind?
D"because you deny the spirit – answer the question about the baptism of the Holy Spirit R" Where does Scripture speak of a baptism of the HS?
D"you insist the 3 persons must be different beings so they can works together – so love can exist This is your teaching to me R" Not different beings, different personalities of loving.
D"Your example does not include the good-guy angels – according to you they are mortal also R" Sinless angels keep experiencing ongoing living. What is your point? No relationship to God is broken. Can't you defend your view anymore, that you mock entirely in your post?
Question" What is the baptism of the HS?
Mt 3:11 ....he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
No mention of baptizing in the HS only.
Lu 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Some things Jesus spoke is hard to fathom
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
No mention of baptizing in the HS only.
Ac 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
No mention of baptizing in the HS only
So what are you talking about Dave, a brand new Gnostic view again? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 30, 2021 14:02:49 GMT -5
D"The Gnostic Great Contest is the Gen 3:15 on the ground – the reality we exist within – between man and WORLD and man and ARCHON R" And the archon conflict was never in heaven originally? Sorry – Rev 12:7 was NO CONTEST And you Great Controversy requires an ongoing war between two gods
D"For Jews and every Christian I have ever met – God is absolute R" Well if your God is so absolute, why do you support the idea that GOD made natural RA both in his creation and mankind? Because that is what He made – God Will God’s plan
D"because you deny the spirit – answer the question about the baptism of the Holy Spirit R" Where does Scripture speak of a baptism of the HS? What is wrong with the verses I have already provided several time – even dedicated a thread to them Do you not know your scripture – or is it just so easy for you to pretend you cannot see
D"you insist the 3 persons must be different beings so they can works together – so love can exist This is your teaching to me R" Not different beings, different personalities of loving. Now you embrace modality – I thought you said that was error
D"Your example does not include the good-guy angels – according to you they are mortal also R" Sinless angels keep experiencing ongoing living. What is your point? You say only God is immortal – so please give me scripture for the mortal death of the good-guy angels
Question" What is the baptism of the HS? No mention of baptizing in the HS only. Do you not know your scripture – or is it just so easy for you to pretend you cannot see
Some things Jesus spoke is hard to fathom Joh 3:5 No mention of baptizing in the HS only. Roberts word game of denial
No mention of baptizing in the HS only So what are you talking about Dave, a brand new Gnostic view again? Do you not know your scripture – or is it just so easy for you to pretend you cannot see
Act 1:5 For John immersed with water, but you will be immersed in the Ruach ha-Kodesh Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost Act 1:5 because John, indeed, baptized with water, and ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit Act 1:5 for John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit Act 1:5 For Iohn truely baptized with water, but ye shalbe baptized with the holy ghost,
G907 – βαπτίζω - baptizō - to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2021 14:48:23 GMT -5
D"Because that is what He made – God Will God’s plan R"Pr 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren
And
Pr 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. Am 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, Ge 1:31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
Somehow you completely disregard Scripture Dave.
D"Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost Do you not know your scripture – or is it just so easy for you to pretend you cannot see R" And this is "Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: " is it Dave? Or Dave taking one text and making a brand new doctrine for this idea?
So all the other baptisms are different are they? This one is unique?
This is a baptism after Jesus died and was glorified, so contains the empowered salvation of Jesus that can come over those who wish to receive it. But I have written 4 sentences of application and discussion, Dave only wrote one sentence of mock. I struggle to understand your view Dave, you write so little.
Do you really believe your views?
-----------------from Messanic Jews email for this Sabbath----------------------------
Sometimes, we must faithfully sow seeds, patiently waiting as God grows them. "I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow." (1 Corinthians 3:6)
R" Faith is a process, it grows in us as a process, not a gift or evidence as you claim, but I know so little of your views about faith, you write so briefly, have you read my studies on faith? ----------------from Messanic Jews email for this Sabbath---------------------------- I quote"
This whole account of God’s redemption of Israel from Egypt has a spiritual parallel in our salvation from the kingdom of darkness, ruled by haSatan (literally, the Adversary) and the Kingdom of Light, ruled by the LORD. We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, the Passover Lamb, not simply to walk away and “do our own thing.” As it was for the Israelites, the purpose of our freedom is to serve the living God.
Pharaoh had hardened his heart and would not listen to the voice of reason—one of the surest signs of pride. A humble man will receive correction willingly, but a person with pride immediately becomes defensive and will not listen to others. This can bring about his downfall. “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.” (Proverbs 16:18)
Note the contrast between Pharaoh and Moses, who even today is considered to be the most humble man to walk the earth. When Jethro, Moses’ father-in-law, corrected him on his approach to settling disputes between the Israelites in the wilderness, Moses listened and took heed. “So Moses listened to the voice of his father-in-law and did all that he had said.” (Exodus 18:24) end quote"
I find it remarkable that Messanic Jews believe in the "ruled by haSatan (literally, the Adversary) " that we are initially ruled by haSatan in the kingdom of darkness. This subject you oppose, therefore you cannot be a Messanic Jew, as they support a haSatan, that opposes GOD.
SHalom Shabbath
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Post by Dave on Jan 1, 2022 1:41:49 GMT -5
D"Because that is what He made – God Will God’s plan Ge 1:31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Somehow you completely disregard Scripture Dave. YEP - Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. Somehow you completely disregard Scripture Robert
D"Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost So all the other baptisms are different are they? This one is unique?
This is a baptism (of the Spirit) after Jesus died and was glorified, so contains the empowered salvation of Jesus that can come over those who wish to receive it. Correct – the promised Comforter
R" Faith is a process, it grows in us as a process, OK – belief can grow stronger and stronger – held with great conviction
not a gift or evidence as you claim, TRUTH from Robert Salvation is the gift – please quote me when you misrepresent me – if you can
but I know so little of your views about faith, you write so briefly, Belief is all that is required for salvation – belief held with strong conviction = faith There is absolutely nothing wrong with belief or faith – they are wonderful thing if directed correctly It is also a requirement for the next step in your Christian walk – to walk in the spirit – Baptism of the Spirit
have you read my studies on faith? YES – already posted – there is nothing wrong with belief or faith It is also a requirement for the next step in your Christian walk – to walk in the spirit – Baptism of the Spirit
----------------from Messanic Jews email for this Sabbath---------------------------- We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, the Passover Lamb, YES – belief is all that is required - agree
Pharaoh had hardened his heart and would not listen to the voice of reason—one of the surest signs of pride. WHY DON’T YOU BELIEVE SCRIPTURE? Exo 9:12 But Adonai hardened the heart of Pharaoh Exo 9:12 And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh Exo 9:12 And Jehovah hardened the heart of Pharaoh Exo 9:12 And the Lorde hardened the heart of Pharao
This whole account of God’s redemption of Israel from Egypt has a spiritual parallel in our salvation from the kingdom of darkness, ruled by haSatan (literally, the Adversary) and the Kingdom of Light, ruled by the LORD. YES – this WORLD is the kingdom / domain of the archon – the serpent race – the Beast of Revelation Absolutely agree
We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, Absolutely agree - the archon – the serpent race – the Beast of revelation - Absolutely agree
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2022 15:42:45 GMT -5
D"Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. Somehow you completely disregard Scripture Robert R" Yes Dave you ignore what darkness is, the absence of light. Why does GOD have to create darkness? Because darkness normally cannot exist in the presence of light, hence God has to make room for EVIL to exist. Hence a SIN problem occurred.
But you ignore this idea, to you RA and EVIL are natural by products of creation.
You seem to think natural darkness can exist next to natural light? A by product of matter. How silly is your foolishness.
D"Correct – the promised Comforter R: Which promised Comforter Dave? Jesus or the HS after baptism?
D"Belief is all that is required for salvation – belief held with strong conviction = faith There is absolutely nothing wrong with belief or faith – they are wonderful thing if directed correctly R" now you mix terms and words So are you saved Dave by daath/Gnosis or by amanuah? Which word Dave, because you are not saved by both of these words?
You first posted you are saved by daath/Gnosis in Jesus. I say you are saved by amanuah in Jesus.
Now you mix both of these words together. Are you confused?
Sure I agree you need some daath/Gnosis knowledge of the Bible , (eg who is God?) but the actual salvation process is by amanuah in Jesus.
D"It is also a requirement for the next step in your Christian walk – to walk in the spirit – Baptism of the Spirit R" Arrh no, if you seek Jesus in prayer of amanuah, you have already been saved by Jesus and He treats you as sinless from that very moment. The rest is Jesus growing in you. Baptism is not a condition of getting Jesus inside of you. Sure it is a good idea to be baptised, but Jesus flows into us on the moment we claim His salvation via faith in the powers of His words.
RP"have you read my studies on faith? D" YES – already posted – there is nothing wrong with belief or faith R" I have not seen any discussion of my studies on faith Dave?
Messanic Post "We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, the Passover Lamb, D" YES – belief is all that is required - agree R" Hang on Dave, you do not have a haSatan in your view, you have a prosecuting good angel doing a bad job and the archon satanas beings doing yester ra in the human minds.
Not this haSatan wee Messanic and SDA people alike support as a real Opposing being against God.
You wrote of the Passover Lamb bit, failed to see "We are delivered from haSatan "
You do not have a haSatan in your view Dave, only satanas archons, remember?
Messanic statement emailed to Rob" We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, Dave responds" Absolutely agree - the archon – the serpent race – the Beast of revelation - Absolutely agree R" What!! Come on Dave. You do not have a haSatan in your view, only the archon satanas.
You cannot agree the satanas is the same as the haSatan in the OT?
You have the serpent as satanas, and the shedim in the OT as satanas, but you have the haSatan as a good angel doing a bad job as a prosecuting attorney.
You cannot say you "Absolutely agree - the archon – the serpent race – the Beast of revelation - Absolutely agree" you are stating things the Messanic Jews do not write. They wrote "We are delivered from haSatan " not from the "archonic satanas" , come one Dave, read the sentence correctly.
I think you can't even read , you assume what you want to see? Are you blind?
Isa 29:14 Therefore, behold, I (Jesus) will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men (Dave) shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men (Dave) shall be hid.
The Messanic Jews are not supporting your satanas archon view.
R" Hmm? I do remember you once trying to equate haSatan with archons? I can't find your post exactly? Hmm? Can you state your views on this more succinctly and clearly? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 1, 2022 17:54:01 GMT -5
D"Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things. Somehow you completely disregard Scripture Robert R" Yes Dave you ignore what darkness is, the absence of light. Why does GOD have to create darkness? Because darkness normally cannot exist in the presence of light, hence God has to make room for EVIL to exist. Hence a SIN problem occurred.SORRY Robert – God is omnipresent – your Umbra Shadow concept is errorPro 15:3 The eyes of Adonai are everywhere, observing the wicked and the good. Pro 15:3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:17 He exists before everything, and in Him all holds together. Psa 139:7 Where can I go from Your Ruach? Where can I flee from Your presence? Psa 139:8 If I go up to heaven, You are there, and if I make my bed in Sheol, look, You are there too. But you ignore this idea, I absolutely ignore the idea of your satan’s ability to block God from anythingto you RA ... natural by products of creation.It is called the Laws of Thermodynamics E (God) cannot be created or destroyed – it can only be transmuted - expressed as 3D image (Christ) - or translated as invisible Spirit (Holy Spirit) Entropy is the movement away – the tiring – waning – forgetting D"Correct – the promised Comforter R: Which promised Comforter Dave? Jesus or the HS after baptism?TRINITY – both and neitherD"Belief is all that is required for salvation – belief held with strong conviction = faith There is absolutely nothing wrong with belief or faith – they are wonderful thing if directed correctly R" now you mix terms and words So are you saved Dave by daath/Gnosis or by amanuah? Which word Dave, because you are not saved by both of these words?Belief is all that is required for salvation – DUHBaptism of the Holy Spirit leads to gnosis - DUHD"It is also a requirement for the next step in your Christian walk – to walk in the spirit – Baptism of the Spirit R" Arrh no, if you seek Jesus in prayer of amanuah, you have already been saved by Jesus and He treats you as sinless from that very moment. So no one in your church is capable of sinning – you say the serpent lied – you lie what’s the differenceRP"have you read my studies on faith? D" YES – already posted – there is nothing wrong with belief or faith R" I have not seen any discussion of my studies on faith Dave?You have difficulty finding the same verse I list in front of you as well What does Faith mean? by Roberttponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/542/faith-mean-roberttMessanic Post "We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, the Passover Lamb, D" YES – belief is all that is required - agree R" Hang on Dave, you do not have a haSatan in your view, you have a prosecuting good angel doing a bad job and the archon satanas beings doing yester ra in the human minds. Not this haSatan wee Messanic and SDA people alike support as a real Opposing being against God. Satanas is discussed in 33 agl/NT verses So the SDA deny all references to satanas in the agl/NTMessanic statement emailed to Rob" We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, Dave responds" Absolutely agree - the archon – the serpent race – the Beast of revelation - Absolutely agree R" What!! Come on Dave. You do not have a haSatan in your view, only the archon satanas.Satans is discussed in 33 agl/NT verses So the SDA deny all references to satanas in the agl/NT You cannot agree the satanas is the same as the haSatan in the OT?Nope – never will - different origin - different functionHebrew satan is an angel of the Lord in the service of the Lord Chaldean satanas is of the serpent race – the Beast of revelationYou have the serpent as satanas, and the shedim in the OT as satanas, Correct – these are the serpent race – the Beast of Revelationbut you have the haSatan as a good angel doing a bad job as a prosecuting attorney.Correct – Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord in service to the LordCorrect - the theology before Christ = 1- Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord in service to the Lord 2- the enemy to Israel = other nation and the 'other-gods' of the Levant 3- - the demons of the ahl were - Belzeebub, Lilith, shedim, + 'other-gods' and their demons (devils / satanas) Jesus Christ delivers the Gospel - The Gospel has three major themes - Jesus Christ is the Messiah, God incarnate Salvation is open to all who believe that and our real struggel is with the archon - the Principalities 4- all of the agl/NT is about the Beast of Revelation - satanas (Archon / Principalities) 5- the identity of the Beast, the serpent (of Eden) who is called devils and satanas is revealed 6- - the Beast appeared during the birth pains of creation - Rev 12 100% of Hebrew theology is still valid - and Hebrew satan is still doing his function 100% of the Gospel theology is valid - the idenity of the Beast is revealed (Archon / Principalities) 100% of the agl/NT is valid - the Archon / Principalities were made by God for God - Col 1:16 Mat 5:17-21 Jesus did not come to change anything - only to add to / finish the story
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2022 15:28:47 GMT -5
D" SORRY Robert – God is omnipresent – your Umbra Shadow concept is errorR" I See. You ignore the context of the verse, but quote other verses, that speak of nothing on the subject of light and darkness? Can't you fathom all the verses on light and darkness Dave? Ge 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Why does God divide light from darkness, if darkness is natural RA and hence good also? Ex 14:20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night. How come Egypt gets darkness, but Israel does not? You see Dave, when you study a theme, you study all the line upon line on that theme, and ask the logical questions, you fail to do this....so you ponder confusion and live a deceived theology. Job 3:4 Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it. Why does GOD not regard this darkness, He created? (darkness - I refer to only the Hebrew word choshek ) Job 10:21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death; 22 A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness. (KJV) This passage is interesting. Notice Dave, I make a discusssion on every verse to make that verse fit my view. When you make a list of verses, you never make discusssions, and you never talk about those verses fitting your view? Can't you follow a science method of analysis? Here the shadow is a simile of death. Also other Hebrew words for dark, are used to define how this darkness of death is made, Sounds like the making of umbra shadows to me? Any other side discussion from you Dave? Again I only list verses that discusss the theme at hand, ;light and darkness. Pro 15:3 got nothing to do with light and darkness. Col 1:17 got nothing to do with light and darkness Psa 139:7 got nothing to do with light and darkness No discussions from Dave either. Ps 139:11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. 12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; While darkness covers humans,, the same darkness is nothing to God, so why did God create darkness in the first place? Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! If darkness is ra and God does not regard darkness, a simile of death, why did God create darkness? Woe to those who think God creates darkness to be good? That is exactly what Dave is doing? Notice Dave, the way I study a theme, line upon line, on all the verses on a Hebrew word. Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. How come humans live in the shadow of death in a darkness, that GOD calls us out of? There is a clue here, as to what darkness is. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do So the light and the darkness exist in our world for a reason, but why? Dave says the darkness is a byproduct of creation, that this natural RA exists for a natural reason. Rob begs to differ, God would not create something that is a simile of death. Dave thinks natural death existed before moral death came from sin. -----------------------not same Hebrew word for darkness------------------ Jer 13:16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness. 17 But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because the LORD'S flock is carried away captive. R" while this word is not the same, it suggests darkness may be the result of pride, and sin? ----------------------------------------------------------- La 3:2 He hath led me, and brought me into darkness, but not into light. This verse explains a fallen Israel is brought into darkness by GOD. Da 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him. God knows the darkness, but dwells in the light, as GOD is light. Mt 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. It is obvious that darkness is a land where sin exists, and GOD leaves the sinning ones there in the shadow of death in this darkness, BUT Jesus is a LIGHT, complete contrast to the DARKNESS. Joh 8:12 ¶ Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. Same idea, darkness is a symbol of SIN. Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, Here is the only verse that identifies who the darkness if caused by "Satan", the burning one who opposes GOD by sinning. www.studylight.org/lexicons/eng/greek/4567.htmlYou have to prove to the entire world it seems that somehow Satanas is not the same as Satan? biblehub.com/greek/4567.htmSame idea, nothing about satanas being different to satan? SO Dave, where is your serious study link on the difference between these words, I see no difference? D" It is called the Laws of Thermodynamics E (God) cannot be created or destroyed – it can only be transmutedR" so you use a science idea to evaluate a God theme? OK, but how does this relate to darkness? WHere is your verses? RP: Which promised Comforter Dave? Jesus or the HS after baptism?D" TRINITY – both and neitherR" correct for your view, since you have the Father sending the Father so the Father in heaven clothed in humanity sends another Father expression via the Father expression on earth, and the Father expression in heaven as our high priest talks to the other Father expression as the Father in heaven, so now we have five father expressions, and all your theories make sense? RP" R" now you mix terms and words So are you saved Dave by daath/Gnosis or by amanuah? Which word Dave, because you are not saved by both of these words?D" Belief is all that is required for salvation – DUH Baptism of the Holy Spirit leads to gnosis - DUHR" Again you mix terms? belief is the word "aman or pisteuo, both are words of faith" so "faith is all that is required for salvation " is my view Dave? You write brevity again Dave, are you afraid of witnessing to your readers....many dozens of people read your stuff and are as confused as I am? D" So no one in your church is capable of sinning – you say the serpent lied – you lie what’s the differenceR" What answer is that Dave? The topic is "do you have to be baptised to be saved? Answer NO. You are saved by faith in Jesus, not baptism in the spirit. However later baptism is useful. Of course people sin Dave, stay on the topic you wrote? Can't you stick to one theme at a time? RP" have you read my studies on faith? DP" YES – already posted – there is nothing wrong with belief or faith RP" I have not seen any discussion of my studies on faith Dave?D"You have difficulty finding the same verse I list in front of you as well R" Dave posts his replies, how nice, maybe I have forgotten. Thanks Dave. I reread your discusssion. DP" You are a lot harder to follow here -How is believe the same as to help hold up / support / prop up – Jesus need no help from anyone – only acceptance via beliefRP" I am saying the blind person is claiming the promise that the Lord can make them see. And than Jesus says to them "DO you support that I am able to do this?' The blind says yes, and so Jesus heals them, and they see.Rob explains" What made the blind see? The fact they claimed the promise: Isa 35:5 ¶ Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, Isa 42:16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; Isa 42:18 ¶ Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. Isa 43:8 ¶ Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, Jesus is asking the blind, who have claimed these words, looking for power from these words, do you support those words in the torah, will flow in power, as you say and claim with conviction that a power will flow? And the blind say yes. ANd Jesus grants them the flow power they desire. This is how faith works, and how a flow of Jesus works from that faith. DP" All I see in these verses is BELIEF / FAITH / MORAL CONVICTION / TRUTH / ASSURANCER" Again you write brevity? Why can't you also see support? DP" Buy a dictionary = BELIEF / FAITH / MORAL CONVICTION / TRUTH / ASSURANCER" so Dave thinks the answer to Bible meanings is to look to human ideas? ---------------------------------------- Notice the way Dave avoids a Messanic email I received :- Messanic statement emailed to Rob" We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, Dave responds" Absolutely agree - the archon – the serpent race – the Beast of revelation - Absolutely agreeRP" What!! Come on Dave. You do not have a haSatan in your view, only the archon satanas. D" Satans is discussed in 33 agl/NT verses So the SDA deny all references to satanas in the agl/NTR" Dave you fail to read what the Messanic people wrote, you just write hoping readers are OK with you changing topics? Dave can you write anything right? " Satans is discussed in 33 agl/NT verses" Not correct. " Greek Satanas is discussed in 33 agl/NT verses" is correct. The messanic writers are NOT writing your idea, the messanics wrote " We are delivered from haSatan "
Not we are delivered from haSatanas. RP" You cannot agree the satanas is the same as the haSatan in the OT? D" Nope – never will - different origin - different function Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord in the service of the Lord Chaldean satanas is of the serpent race – the Beast of revelationR" Fantastic, we agree on your view. Great. But the Messanic email does not follow your view? " We are delivered from haSatan " - this is in Hebrew "hey-satan" the OT Hebrew word with prefix, that refers to the Opposer or Adversary of GOD. Not your " Chaldean satanas is of the serpent race Satanas" But you ignore the Messanic writers view, the same as my view? RP You have the serpent as satanas, and the shedim in the OT as satanas,D Correct – these are the serpent race – the Beast of RevelationRp "but you have the haSatan as a good angel doing a bad job as a prosecuting attorney.D" Correct – Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord in service to the Lord R" But you ignore the Messanic writers view, the same as my view? I am still waiting for some scholar to show us that Satanas in Greek is NOT the same as Hey-Satan in Hebrew. And if they are the same BEING, than your theory falls down. How come the whole Christian theology have one bad being, and his supporters, but Y OU have TWO bad beings and his supporters, your OT prosecuting attorney is a good angel doing a bad job. All other mainstream combine these "satan and satanas" into ONE BEING. But Dave doesn't. Gnostic higher knowledge, you know better ?? I suspect the satanas is a suffix addition, not changes the word from satan, so the basic word meaning is the same, but NO, Dave sees them are different Beings? Prove it, from a scholar study or video. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 2, 2022 18:27:56 GMT -5
D"SORRY Robert – God is omnipresent – your Umbra Shadow concept is error R" I See. You ignore the context of the verse, but quote other verses, that speak of nothing on the subject of light and darkness? Can't you fathom all the verses on light and darkness Dave? Nothing can block the presence of the Lord – Nothing – your Umbra Shadow is a thing of this world
Ge 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Why does God divide light from darkness, if darkness is natural RA and hence good also? Truth -vrs- ignorance
Ex 14:20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night. How come Egypt gets darkness, but Israel does not? In your view God caused all the Egyptians to be evil? – Nonsense In my view – Egypt was made ignorant of the truth
Job 3:4 Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it. Ignorance of the truth
Why does GOD not regard this darkness, He created? (darkness - I refer to only the Hebrew word choshek ) Entropy – forgetting the truth
Job 10:21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death; 22 A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness. This passage is interesting. Notice Dave, I make a discusssion on every verse to make that verse fit my view. Correct – you word play verses to make them fit your doctrine – Thank you for admitting it
Pro 15:3 got nothing to do with light and darkness. Col 1:17 got nothing to do with light and darkness Psa 139:7 got nothing to do with light and darkness Correct – you say God presence is blocked – or cannot co-exist with ra – these verses say otherwise
No discussions from Dave either. My discussion = you say God presence is blocked – or cannot co-exist with ra – these verses say otherwise
If darkness is ra and God does not regard darkness, a simile of death, why did God create darkness? Woe to those who think God creates darkness to be good? That is exactly what Dave is doing? The First Archon’s first thought was of self – entropy from the truth
How come humans live in the shadow of death in a darkness, that GOD calls us out of? There is a clue here, as to what darkness is. We are here to Jer 1:5 – that is our commission / our role within creation
Psa 23:4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for You are with me: Your rod and Your staff comfort me.
-----------------------not same Hebrew word for darkness------------------
Jer 13:16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness. 17 But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because the LORD'S flock is carried away captive. R" while this word is not the same, it suggests darkness may be the result of pride, and sin? BOOM - The First Archon’s first thought was of self – entropy from the truth I am glad you finally agree -----------------------------------------------------------
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, Here is the only verse that identifies who the darkness if caused by "Satan", the burning one who opposes GOD by sinning. Correct the mission of the Archon is to keep us focused upon the world – not the spirit Correct the mission of the Archon is to keep us ignorant of the truth of God and salvation
RP" R" now you mix terms and words So are you saved Dave by daath/Gnosis or by amanuah? Which word Dave, because you are not saved by both of these words? D" Belief is all that is required for salvation – DUH Baptism of the Holy Spirit leads to gnosis - DUH R" Again you mix terms? belief is the word "aman or pisteuo, both are words of faith" so "faith is all that is required for salvation " is my view Dave? Correct belief and faith are the same word – no difference – all that is required is belief
D"So no one in your church is capable of sinning – you say the serpent lied – you lie what’s the difference R" What answer is that Dave? The topic is "do you have to be baptised to be saved? 1- That is not the topic – the question to you is for an explanation of being Born Again / Baptized by the Holy Spirit 2- you say this comes automatically for everyone who says they believe – and they do not sin anymore 3- you say lying is a sin 4- you just posted a lie – why are you still sinning?
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Notice the way Dave avoids a Messanic email I received :- Messanic statement emailed to Rob" We are delivered from haSatan through faith in Yeshua, Dave responds" Absolutely agree - the archon – the serpent race – the Beast of revelation - Absolutely agree RP" What!! Come on Dave. You do not have a haSatan in your view, only the archon satanas.
Please shoe me THE SATAN in the agl.NT D" Satanss is discussed in 33 agl/NT verses – never as THE SATAN
RP"You cannot agree the satanas is the same as the haSatan in the OT? D" Nope – never will - different origin - different function Hebrew satan is an angel of the Lord in the service of the Lord Chaldean satanas is of the serpent race – the Beast of revelation R" Fantastic, we agree on your view. Great.
"We are delivered from haSatan " - this is in Hebrew "hey-satan" the OT Hebrew word with prefix, that refers to the Opposer or Adversary of GOD. Not your "Chaldean satanas is of the serpent race Satanas" So you deny the agl/NT in favor of Roman doctrine
How come the whole Christian theology have one bad being, and his supporters, but YOU have TWO bad beings and his supporters, your OT prosecuting attorney is a good angel doing a bad job. All other mainstream ROMAN religions combine these "satan and satanas" into ONE BEING. No Jew – No Rabbi agrees No Messianic jew – that hold the ahl as Jewsih agrees Only Roman Christian has invented your satan god of evil I have begged and begged you to give me a per-Rome reference – you have failed
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2022 14:35:50 GMT -5
D" Correct – you word play verses to make them fit your doctrine – Thank you for admitting itR" no time for a long post Dave, bit late today. Typical response, have you no long to defend your view, except pity remarks? D Ignorance of the truthD Entropy – forgetting the truthR" these are not answers about the verses I chose? D" Correct – you say God presence is blocked – or cannot co-exist with ra – these verses say otherwiseR" you are dull Dave, what exactly does chata mean? It means missing? Missing what? It doesn't mean disobey or transgress the laws, we have pesha for that. No chata, means to miss. Miss what I assume? The powers of GOD. SO if you are sinning you are missing the powers of GOD, hence when light is missing in your life, you become naturally one in the darkness. Are you so dull as to not understand this. God can enter darkness, sure, but if God enters darkness, the darkness flees. So when you are sinning, your darkness covers you, and this is an absence of GOD's light. D" My discussion = you say God presence is blocked – or cannot co-exist with ra – these verses say otherwiseR OK, where are those verses that say otherwise Dave? D" BOOM - The First Archon’s first thought was of self – entropy from the truth I am glad you finally agreeR" Dave, this verse is talking of pride, and Self is also an example, so the archon was sinning, thus missing the presence of GOD, and if you are missing light, you are covered by darkness. This also implies the archon had to be choosing to sin, choosing to be missing the light, hence we also have free will. But you negate this idea, don't you? D" Correct the mission of the Archon is to keep us focused upon the world – not the spirit Correct the mission of the Archon is to keep us ignorant of the truth of God and salvationR" AND if an archon keeps us away from the spirit and away from salvation, are not the archons OPPOSING God?
And if the archons are doing this, arn't they choosing of their own free will to be a sinning archon?And why do the archons choose to do this? because they want their sinning to live forever. But you negate this view don't you, it seems some creatures can sin and do ra, because they are created that way. Destroys the sin definition for us humans, who somehow have different terms, ie free will, but archons don't. You have created a god that has different terms for different creatures? D" Correct belief and faith are the same word – no difference – all that is required is beliefR" oxymoron Dave. belief is daath or gnosis, to know somebody. Faith or amanuah is to place your support in that person, by speaking with conviction the words of that person, so that saviour powers from those words flow into your life. This is a totally different word meaning, that affects the way you live. Knowledge does not empower you as faith does. You just admitted a goof. D"1- That is not the topic – the question to you is for an explanation of being Born Again / Baptized by the Holy SpiritR" So Dave are you saying to be born again, you have to be baptised by the HS? D" 2- you say this comes automatically for everyone who says they believe R" Again Dave never outlines his view, only mocks my view? Dave I say you are saved by Jesus as your saviour via Faith, and from that moment Jesus regards you are a sinless person, because of His sacrifice for your sin-offerings. This has nothing to do with a formal baptism under water by a Pastor calling on the Name of the Father, SOn and HS. SO what is your view Dave? D" and they do not sin anymoreR" I didn't say they do not ever sin again, I said they are regarded as being sinless. If we sin, Jesus is our advocated, so confessing our sins, He forgives us. D" 3- you say lying is a sinR" I say you judge me too often, and mock my words just for the fun of it. D "4- you just posted a lie – why are you still sinning?R" Missing powers from Jesus is a daily fight of faith, yes, I do admit this. ----------------- D" Please shoe me THE SATAN in the agl.NT D" Satanss is discussed in 33 agl/NT verses – never as THE SATANR" The links (eg Hebrew hub) I provided show and say, that Satanas in the NT is the Hebrew Satan in the OT. They do not acknowledge these words are different beings, only Dave alone does. D" So you deny the agl/NT in favor of Roman doctrineR" got nothing to do with Roman edit, the Hebrew Hub links say the Satanas is the same as Satan, only a different prefix. How does a prefix or suffix change the basic root word, Dave? Tell me? It doesn't. Notice the Noah being must be different to the real Noah, so we have two noah beings here in the OT. So adding a prefix or suffix, means we have a different meaning to the root stem of the word? Do you have any scholars that agree with you on this? D" No Jew – No Rabbi agreesR" That's funny, the Messanic Jews posts " we are delivered from hasatan via faith" D" No Messianic jew – that hold the ahl as Jewsih agreesR" so now there are different messanic Jews are they? D" I have begged and begged you to give me a per-Rome reference – you have failedR" I gave you two already, the Chinese new of the Satan 3000BC from Noah, and you mock the Pastor is now carrying good credentials. I posted also the Waldensians you knew of devil, but you mock them also. This thread is all about this, from Prof Veith, but you mock listening to him. Evidence does not change a person's world view, why do I bother you with evidence? SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 3, 2022 17:45:07 GMT -5
R" no time for a long post Dave, bit late today. No worries – never an obligationNotice Dave, I make a discussion on every verse to make that verse fit my view. When you make a list of verses, you never make discusssions, and you never talk about those verses fitting your view? Can't you follow a science method of analysis? D"Correct – you word play verses to make them fit your doctrine – Thank you for admitting it Correct – I let scripture speak for itself – scripture means what it says – no twisting – no word play D Ignorance of the truth D Entropy – forgetting the truth R" these are not answers about the verses I chose?Why does God divide light from darkness, if darkness is natural RA and hence good also? Ex 14:20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night. How come Egypt gets darkness, but Israel does not? In your view God caused all the Egyptians to be evil? – NonsenseIn my view – Egypt was made ignorant of the truth You argument = ra = sin = evil – satan – and God gave it all to EgyptIn your view God caused all the Egyptians to be evil? – NonsenseEgypt was made – not to see – not to understand – not to know = darkness = ignorance God = Light = truth = knowledge of the truth – knowledge of God How many more words does it take to say this?D"Correct – you say God presence is blocked – or cannot co-exist with ra – these verses say otherwise R" you are dull Dave, what exactly does chata mean? It means missing? Missing what? You are changing your own argument from LIGHT and DARKNESS to chata (sin) You refuse to define your terms – so you can bend and twist them as you like No chata, means to miss. Miss what I assume? The powers of GOD.Where is your definition – miss what? – miss the truth – miss the opportunity to mitzvahSO if you are sinning you are missing the powers of GOD, What a bunch of nonsense – using missing powers So when you are sinning, your darkness covers you, YEP – you are ignorant – you are stupid – you are deceived – you are wrong thinking – you are in error – you forgot the consequences – you were selfish – focused upon (yester ra) not (yester tov)
D"Correct the mission of the Archon is to keep us focused upon the world – not the spirit Correct the mission of the Archon is to keep us ignorant of the truth of God and salvation R" AND if an archon keeps us away from the spirit and away from salvation, are not the archons OPPOSING God?Disease – war – cows - cold – termites – ants – weather - all cause us distraction - no god of evil requiredAnd if the archons are doing this, arn't they choosing of their own free will to be a sinning archon? So – bacteria stand around and scheme you attack you – only if you are pious Cow – get together and make a plan to crash down the fence and enter your garden Ants – decide which house to invade depending upon the piety of the peopleAnd why do the archons choose to do this? because they want their sinning to live forever. Is that why cow act like cows – Is that why baboon act like baboons – Maybe they are just dumb animals But you negate this view don't you, it seems some creatures can sin and do ra, LIE – of course man can sin and do evil – do ra Why do you need another to blame it on?You have created a god that has different terms for different creatures? Yep – animal are different than angels Angels differed than man Fish different from insects Archon our real struggle (Eph 6:12) created by God for God (Col 1:16) Amazing creation – intelligent design = intelligent designer – Praise God
D" Belief is all that is required for salvation – DUH Baptism of the Holy Spirit leads to gnosis - DUH R" Again you mix terms? belief is the word "aman or pisteuo, both are words of faith" so "faith is all that is required for salvation " is my view Dave? D"Correct belief and faith are the same word – no difference – all that is required is beliefD"1- That is not the topic – the question to you is for an explanation of being Born Again / Baptized by the Holy Spirit R" So Dave are you saying to be born again, you have to be baptised by the HS? YES ROBERT THAT IS WHAT IT MEANSJoh 3:3 Yeshua answered him, “Amen, amen I tell you, unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Elisha could see – Moses could see – Ezkiel and Isaiah saw At the transfiguration Moses and Elijah were not in the grave awaiting the First resurrection Rev 20:4 the saint – servants of the Lord – Martyred for the Lord – all there at the throne BEFORE the first resurrection = First fruits According to you and the SDA they should all sleeping in the grave You and your SDA actively preach against mainstream Christianity D"2- you say this comes automatically for everyone who says they believe R" Again Dave never outlines his view, only mocks my view? Dave I say you are saved by Jesus as your saviour via Faith, and from that moment Jesus regards you are a sinless person, because of His sacrifice for your sin-offerings. This has nothing to do with a formal baptism under water by a Pastor calling on the Name of the Father, Son and HS. Do not forget to add the your only hope after death is the grave to await the First ResurrectionSO what is your view Dave?OK – believers – are save by their faith – in something intangible – belief is all that is required And the next step in our Christian walk is to seek to be Spirit Filled Christians WHY – because COMMUNION with the Spirit is a tangible event you will not doubt or forget Because through COMMUNION with the spirit – we receive the gifts of the spirit And through the gifts of the spirit – our witness is empowered The goal is not to just be a believer – and attend church The goal is the be a spirit filled disciple and lead the church – by your witness The goal is not to just be complacent with sleep in the grave and awaiting the First Resurrection The goal is to be a spirit filled disciple – doing your job (Jer 1:5) and to be with Him today – as the man on the cross next to Him – the goal is to be there already in the service of the Lord – and not to wait for the First Resurrection R" Missing powers from Jesus is a daily fight of faith, yes, I do admit this. THANK YOU for being honest – Christianity is a walk – a journey – a souljourn It is impossible not to be biological – and biology comes with the baggage (selfishness) that gets in the way – (yester ra) – Paul chapter 7 The more you realize this the more you will understand Paul – “Miserable man am I” ----------------- R" The links (eg Hebrew hub) I provided show and say, that Satanas in the NT is the Hebrew Satan in the OT. They do not acknowledge these words are different beings, only Dave alone does. (google) G4566 Σατᾶν - Transliteration: Satân Derivation: of Hebrew origin (H7854); G4567 Σατανᾶς - Transliteration: Satanâs Derivation: of Chaldee origin corresponding to H4566 (with the definite affix); The Bible hub definition is incompleteG4567 Σατανᾶς is of Chaldee origin G4566 Σατᾶν is of Hebrew origin D"So you deny the agl/NT in favor of Roman doctrine R" got nothing to do with Roman edit, Please show me a pre-Roman reference to your satan godHow does a prefix or suffix change the basic root word, Dave? Tell me? It doesn't.I have asked this of you before – 5 plumbers come to your house – which one is THE plumberR" That's funny, the Messanic Jews posts "we are delivered from hasatan via faith" YES Robert – we all are aware of the Beast and Eph 6 D"No Messianic jew – that hold the ahl as Jewsih agrees R" so now there are different messanic Jews are they?You know this answer – why can’t you be realistic with anythingIn the nearest congregation – there are more Christians converts than Jewish converts Many have various religious backgrounds – but wish to return to the truth They all bring their religious baggage with them The Definition of a Messianic Jew = a Jew that accepts Jesus Christ as the Messiah This would be a Jew with Jewish theology that simply adds the agl/NT to their experience This would be the religion of Jesus Christ, all the disciples, and most of the First Christians D"I have begged and begged you to give me a per-Rome reference – you have failed R" I gave you two already, the Chinese new of the Satan 3000BC from Noah, and you mock the Pastor is now carrying good credentials. I fully embrace that video – have it posted here Of course everyone acknowledged the Beast / devils/ satans – the Beast of Revelation deceives the whole world – not just Jews or Christians
I posted also the Waldensians you knew of devil, but you mock them also. This thread is all about this, from Prof Veith, but you mock listening to him. STOP LYING – I mocked your presentation that their Bible was different than Rome’s Turns out it is the Latin Vulgate written by Catholic St. Jerome Then you offer the Peshitta Bible which is 100% Aramaic and used by all the Eastern Catholics But you claim a retune to the original Hebrew Evidence does not change a person's world view, why do I bother you with evidence?Show me the data – show me your evidence – present facts - instead of your attitude
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2022 13:41:52 GMT -5
chata = miss in the context of GOD who upholds all things by his power, chata means to be missing God's flow of power into your life. Specifically a reduction of His powers flowing in your life, as a complete missing would mean your non-existence.
D"You are changing your own argument from LIGHT and DARKNESS to chata (sin)
I am trying to get you to see "missing God" is a simile of "missing light" causes a darkness. However you seem to think that darkness exists naturally in the presence of light. Einstein says darkness flees from God's light. D"Where is your definition – miss what? – miss the truth – miss the opportunity to mitzvah R" you are being stubborn,
missing the truth is specific, you are missing a flow of power from God.
missing commands, you are missing a flow of power from God.
How is what you are saying any different to my saying? You are just playing word games??
D"What a bunch of nonsense – using missing powers R" Why do you negate my meaning?
Is not light a power ? It is to me, also a simile of love, also a power, also a simile of God, the source of all power. Power is a simile of work done, the ability for energy to cause movement. If you miss energy power, your ability to work functionally before God decreases. And Dave says this is "a bunch of nonsense – using missing powers"
Please explain why do you disagree, yet another example of your lack of discussion.
D"So – bacteria stand around and scheme you attack you – only if you are pious Cow – get together and make a plan to crash down the fence and enter your garden Ants – decide which house to invade depending upon the piety of the people R" now who is the ass, your words you say about me?
Have you never heard of the term "agent", did I not challenge you and Richard, where is your "Agent of SIN", you both seem to think there is no agent. Let's see what is an agent? Word game Dave will reply? Prince of this world, -> sounds like an agent to me. Rulers of darkness -> sounds like agents to me.
bacteria, cows and ants are not agents, not the BEING charged for causing SIN in the first place. Yes we both note their RA, their dysfunctional actions, yes the results of Adam, allowing missing of God's powers flowing over all of His Creation. This is termed when God cursed His Creation.
D" Maybe they are just dumb animals?
SO the archons are dumb animals are they?
D"Why do you need another to blame it on?
R" I have never used this term, it is an invention of Dave only.
I do not blame the AGENT for my SIN, but the agent is the cause of ALL SINS, as GOD sees SIN in this way. Each is responsible for their own sins, yes, but the AGENT is a prince of SIN, since He wrought sinning first upon God.
What proof of this idea? Day of Atonement, the scape goat .
D"The goal is the be a spirit filled disciple and lead the church – by your witness R" I thought you no longer attend churches much?
D"It is impossible not to be biological – and biology comes with the baggage (selfishness) that gets in the way R" Why do you see biology as inherently full of RA? I only see the aven propensities in the biology that is my baggage of RA, that GOD removes gradually from my DNA.
I do not see my body as bad or full of ra, only that my body requires a renewed creation.
Have you never noticed the Hebrew word "aven" before, a word meaning one's potential, like a seed, a gene, our information from the DNA.
Our muscles and heart, our minds and cells are not RA, only the spoiled information inside the DNA causes us RA, that is all that is required to be restored. Propensities are habits we have to do our pet sins. This is a biological function arising from spoiled aven.
D"The Bible hub definition is incomplete G4567 Σατανᾶς is of Chaldee origin G4566 Σατᾶν is of Hebrew origin R" I have asked you for a serious detailed study of this satan/satanas problem you have, and all I get is three lines from Dave. That is not a serious study Dave, can't you defend your view? Obviously not.
RP"How does a prefix or suffix change the basic root word, Dave? Tell me? It doesn't. D" I have asked this of you before – 5 plumbers come to your house – which one is THE plumber R" Wow Dave serious study is full of brevity and mocking. Come on Dave, it is a serious question and deserves a serious answer. If I could walk and talk with a Greek scholar near by, I would go and see him over this issue. Can't find not a single link on the www over this, only seems Dave has invented this. ------------
PD"No Messianic jew – that hold the ahl as Jewsih agrees PR" so now there are different messanic Jews are they? D You know this answer – why can’t you be realistic with anything R" You do not answer my question. Surely a messanic Jews is the same? Perhaps NOT, I know one who says Jesus never pre-existed. OK show me a Messanic Christian link to a church that follows your view completely?
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 6, 2022 1:14:03 GMT -5
chata = miss in the context of GOD who upholds all things by his power, chata means to be missing God's flow of power into your life. Specifically a reduction of His powers flowing in your life, as a complete missing would mean your non-existence.H2400 – חַטָּא - chaṭṭâ' - Intensive from H2398; a criminal, or one accounted guilty: - offender, sinful, sinner. H2398 – חָטָא - châṭâ' - A primitive root; properly to miss; hence (figuratively and generally) to sin; www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/chata.htmlto sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness (Qal) to miss to sin, miss the goal or path of right and duty to incur guilt, incur penalty by sin, forfeit (Hiphil) to miss the mark to induce to sin, cause to sin to bring into guilt or condemnation or punishment (Hithpael) to miss oneself, lose oneself, wander from the way to purify oneself from uncleanness NAS Word Usage - Total: 238 bear the blame 2, bewildered 1, bore the loss 1, bring sin 1, cleanse 5, cleansed 1, cleansing 1, commit 2, commits sin 1, committed 21, done wrong 1, errs 1, fault 1, fear...loss 1, forfeits 1, indicted 1, miss 1, offended 1, offered it for sin 1, offers it for sin 1, purged 1, purified 2, purified themselves from sin 1, purify 6, purify him from uncleanness 1, purify himself from uncleanness 2, reach 1, sin 55, sin have i committed 1, sinful 1, sinned 87, sinner 7, sinning 4, sins 23 www.pursuegod.org/the-meaning-of-sin-in-hebrew/What Is Sin? “Sin” is translated from the word chata (Hebrew: חָטָא). It’s most basic meaning isn’t actually religious. In the Old Testament (OT), sin is most basically a failure to fulfill a goal. www.hebrew4christians.com/Meditations/Chata_ah/Printer_Version/printer_version.htmlHebrew words for "sin" The Hebrew word most often translated as "sin" in our English Bibles is the word chata'ah (אהָטָח ,(ֲwhich means "missing the mark," as an archer might miss his target when shooting an arrow. Chata'ah is an error, a mistake, or a case of "missing the target." in the context of GOD who upholds all things by his power, chata means to be missing God's flow of power into your life.
to miss the target – what’s the target – obeying God mitzvahbasically a failure to fulfill a goal. – what’s the goal – obeying God mitzvahmiss the path of right and duty – what’s the right path - obeying God mitzvahwander from the way – what’s the path - obeying God mitzvahto incur guilt, - by disobeying God or the Law – transgressing the commandmentsincur penalty by sin, - by disobeying God or the Law – transgressing the commandmentsD"Where is your definition – miss what? – miss the truth – miss the opportunity to mitzvah R" you are being stubborn, missing the truth is specific, - YES IT IS SPECIFICALLY – the truth is to obey God missing commands, - ALSO SPECIFIC – disobedience of the Law or GodHow is what you are saying any different to my saying? You are just playing word games??I say sin = to disobey God or the commandments – the same as to transgress the Low Not a hidden meaning – not an abstract concept – simple obedienceWhat is – “you are missing a flow of power from God. you are missing a flow of power from God.” It is a sermon built upon a simile or metaphor Please explain why do you disagree, yet another example of your lack of discussion. Because you refuse to admit that the definition is simple and obviousYou have to change it into some religious speak that only you understand – therefore you can play word games with your floating definitionsAnd if the archons are doing ra, arn't they choosing of their own free will to be a sinning archon?D"So – bacteria stand around and scheme you attack you – only if you are pious And when the bacteria attack you they are sinning bacteriaCow – get together and make a plan to crash down the fence and enter your garden And when the bacteria attack your garden they are sinning cowsAnts – decide which house to invade depending upon the piety of the people And when they do – they are sinning antsR" now who is the ass, your words you say about me? Please explain why all these creatures of (yester ra) are sinning creaturesD"Why do you need another to blame it on? Who brought sin into the world – your satan or Adam?I say Adam and quote Rom 5:12 – you say it was an angel named satan and it is all his fault D"The goal is the be a spirit filled disciple and lead the church – by your witness R" I thought you no longer attend churches much? Churches have nothing to do with the church – DUH D"It is impossible not to be biological – and biology comes with the baggage (selfishness) that gets in the way R" Why do you see biology as inherently full of RA? I only see the aven propensities in the biology that is my baggage of RA, that GOD removes gradually from my DNA.In Judaism this is (yester ra) + (yester tov) You have spent two years denying this – now you present it as your own?www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-birth-of-the-good-inclination/The rabbinic duality of yetzer hara, the so-called “evil inclination,” and yetzer hatov, the “good inclination,” is more subtle than the names connote. Yetzer hara is not a demonic force that pushes a person to do evil, but rather a drive toward pleasure or property or security, which if left unlimited, can lead to evil (cf. Genesis Rabbah 9:7). When properly controlled by the yetzer hatov, the yetzer hara leads to many socially desirable results, including marriage, business, and community. I do not see my body as bad or full of ra,If you had no (yester ra) ‘programmed self-preservation’ you would be dead by nowRP"How does a prefix or suffix change the basic root word, Dave? Tell me? It doesn't. D" I have asked this of you before – 5 plumbers come to your house – which one is THE plumber R" Wow Dave serious study is full of brevity and mocking. Come on Dave, it is a serious question and deserves a serious answer. If I could walk and talk with a Greek scholar near by, I would go and see him over this issue. They would answer you as follows There are 59 fishermen on the dock – each and every one of them can be THE FISHERMAN There are 16 drunks at the bar – each and every one of the them can be THE DRUNK There are 359,000,000 Americans – each and every one of them can be THE AMERICAN There are a Billion Chinese – each and every one of them can be THE CHINAMAN So you tell me – how does adding THE to a word change its meaning?There are many many archon – they come in all sizes and shapes – each and every one of them is THE DEVIL – each and evry one of them is THE satanas – each and every one of the is of THE serpent race – each and every one of them are of THE Beast of Revelation
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2022 14:08:54 GMT -5
D" I say sin = to disobey God or the commandments – the same as to transgress the Low Not a hidden meaning – not an abstract concept – simple obedience What is – “you are missing a flow of power from God. you are missing a flow of power from God.” It is a sermon built upon a simile or metaphor
Please explain why do you disagree, yet another example of your lack of discussion. Because you refuse to admit that the definition is simple and obvious You have to change it into some religious speak that only you understand – therefore you can play word games with your floating definitions R" So Dave's meaning of sin in context with God is to be missing obeying his laws and commands?
So for you obeying God's commands is the primary big deal to you? What commandments and laws Dave do you specifically obey?
1) Why have you focused away from the PERSON, to the person's laws and commandments? 2 ) You no longer have a personal view of love, but a tyrant whose laws and commands must be obeyed, at all costs. Discuss your view on chata more along my questions.
My view is that missing implies missing the relationship with the PERSON first, His laws and commands are secondary and of less importance. My view upholds the love of GOD first, the letters of the laws of love are merely words we choose to respond to GOD with once we feel His love. And this response is done by faith in those words, they are not laws and commands we have to dutifully obey no matter what.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
What does this verse mean Dave, according to you?
RP"And if the archons are doing ra, arn't they choosing of their own free will to be a sinning archon? D"So – bacteria stand around and scheme you attack you – only if you are pious R" you did not answer my question
D"Please explain why all these creatures of (yester ra) are sinning creatures R" Yes they are sinning creatures, missing the powers of perfection, from which GOD initially placed into their genes and minds, but these lowly animals.when they do sin are not morally judged because of their sin.
If you define miss as only missing the laws of GOD, than animals are excluded, but if miss means to be missing the power of GOD flowing into all creatures, than yes animals also miss, ie sin. But these animals are not morally judged for their sins, only man is because man sinning the creation was cursed, hence all creation is missing a sense of order and a sense of power from GOD.
D"Who brought sin into the world – your satan or Adam? I say Adam and quote Rom 5:12 – you say it was an angel named satan and it is all his fault R" I would say Adam brought sin into our world, but the fallen angels were banished to earth for sinning first, hence our world also had the affects of SIN from these angels, which I note was darkness, chaos and disorder, these are RA affects from their sins.
God came upon our earth already in RA and created a perfect world without RA for Adam. over the top of the world the fallen angels already had. So our world had order and disorder, light and darkness, to sin or not to sin, and so GOD wanted to resolve the SIN problem for ever using humans He created.
D"Churches have nothing to do with the church – DUH R explain, you lack discussion as usual
D"The rabbinic duality of yetzer hara, the so-called “evil inclination,” and yetzer hatov, the “good inclination,” is more subtle than the names connote. Yetzer hara is not a demonic force that pushes a person to do evil, but rather a drive toward pleasure or property or security, which if left unlimited, can lead to evil (cf. Genesis Rabbah 9:7). When properly controlled by the yetzer hatov, the yetzer hara leads to many socially desirable results, including marriage, business, and community. R" well well. I discovered "aven" in Hebrew, and the Jews have already written something close to this idea of mine. Mrs White calls the Hebrew word "aven" propensities.
I cannot understand why Jews invent yester ra, when the term aven already exists?
D"If you had no (yester ra) ‘programmed self-preservation’ you would be dead by now R explain, you lack discussion as usual
D"So you tell me – how does adding THE to a word change its meaning? R" first the letter in Ancient Hebrew is "hey" a letter meaning "Behold the Person" And when it appears next to the word "oppose/opposer" as it comes with verb and noun forms, the word meaning becomes, "Behold the Person, who opposes" and refers to a BEING, the ha-satan is a personal being who opposes GOD and opposes Humans.
D"There are many many archon – they come in all sizes and shapes – each and every one of them is THE DEVIL – each and evry one of them is THE satanas – each and every one of the is of THE serpent race – each and every one of them are of THE Beast of Revelation R" You present theories Dave without substance to them, either they hold scrutiny and examination or they don't. I have spent hours looking for a serious reason why the satanas is not the same as the Hebrew word satan, and every www site says they are essentially the same BEING, the person behold who opposes God and Man.
I have asked you why and how these words can become two separate beings, but you have not supplied me with one link or study to explain. SO my conclusion of your satan/satanas is just a invention on your part. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 6, 2022 18:41:37 GMT -5
D" I say sin = to disobey God or the commandments – the same as to transgress the Law Not a hidden meaning – not an abstract concept – simple obedience R" So Dave's meaning of sin in context with God is to be missing obeying his laws and commands?Repeat - D" I say sin = to disobey God or the commandments – the same as to transgress the Law So for you obeying God's commands is the primary big deal to you? What commandments and laws Dave do you specifically obey?Mat 22:36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Torah?” Mat 22:37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love Adonai your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ Mat 22:38 This is the first and greatest commandment. Mat 22:39 And the second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Mat 22:40 The entire Torah and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” How do we love God – we witness His Glory to all the nations of the WORLD (Jer 1:5) How do we love another as ourselves = witness the Glory of God to them (Jer 1:5) nothing else matters Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. YES – not the letter of the law ritual – but oneness with a higher intent / motive / purpose / commissionWhat does this verse mean Dave, according to you? Heb 10:1 The Torah has a shadow of the good things to come—not the form itself of the realities. For this reason it can never, by means of the same sacrifices they offer constantly year after year, make perfect those who draw near. Following religious rituals does not lead to salvationRom 14:20 Stop tearing down the work of God for the sake of food. Indeed all things are clean, but wrong for the man who by eating causes stumbling. Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything by which your brother stumbles. Dietary laws are meaningless – to mandate dietatary laws is error and will only keep others away
Rom 10:4 For Messiah is the goal of the Torah as a means to righteousness for everyone who keeps trusting. If you are walking in the spirit – you are living the TorahRP"And if the archons are doing ra, arn't they choosing of their own free will to be a sinning archon? D"So – bacteria stand around and scheme you attack you – only if you are pious D"Please explain why all these creatures of (yester ra) are sinning creatures R" Yes they are sinning creatures, If you define miss as only missing the laws of GOD, than animals are excluded,NOPE – the animal kingdom was given its own set of commandments1- Be fruitful and multiply – requires (yester ra) 2- Be fruitful and multiply – resuires survival = self-preservation = SELF = (yester ra) You want to play a word game to make (yester ra) = (yester evil) You could not be more wrong – you misrepresent Judaism – you misrepresent me – you misrepresent mainstream Christianity www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-birth-of-the-good-inclination/The rabbinic duality of yetzer hara, the so-called “evil inclination,” and yetzer hatov, the “good inclination,” is more subtle than the names connote. Yetzer hara is not a demonic force that pushes a person to do evil, but rather a drive toward pleasure or property or security, which if left unlimited, can lead to evil. When properly controlled by the yetzer hatov, the yetzer hara leads to many socially desirable results, including marriage, business, and community.www.chicagocarless.com/2011/08/17/getting-to-the-point-with-the-yetzer-hara/Judaism posits that human beings have two motivating forces: the Yetzer Hatov, or good inclination; and the Yetzer Hara, or evil inclination. You might think life would be paradisiacal with just the Yetzer Hatov. But according to Rabbinic Judaism, not much would get done without its evil twin. Besides being (in the minds of the ancient rabbis) the impetus for creativity, competition, and just plain getting things done, without the Yetzer Hara, growth and change can’t happen. There’s a familiar midrash (Biblical commentary) that tells one day the rabbis captured the Yetzer Hara, and as long as they had it locked away not a single egg was laid in the land. So from a Jewish standpoint, for very practical purposes we’re stuck with both inclinations. Yester ra is requires for the survival of the species – without it no eggs = no lust desire / sex Yester ra is required so man works hard to harvest for the winters and hard times For Self-Preservation – yester ra is require to defend ourselves and our familiesJudaism and I are speaking of (yester ra) – not (yester evil)Ra in itself is not evil - D"Who brought sin into the world – your satan or Adam? I say Adam and quote Rom 5:12 – you say it was an angel named satan and it is all his fault R" I would say Adam brought sin into our world, but the fallen angels were banished to earth for sinning firstWhat you say is not consistent with scripture or Roman satan god of evil Jude and 2 Peter tell us those sinning angels are locked away in chainsGod came upon our earth already in RA and created a perfect world without RA for Adam. over the top of the world the fallen angels already had. So our world had order and disorder, light and darkness, to sin or not to sin, and so GOD wanted to resolve the SIN problem for ever using humans He created. Blah blah – just does not fit scripture – all your sinning angels are held in chains – lock away in prisonD"Churches have nothing to do with the church – DUH R explain, you lack discussion as usualMore pretend ignoranceThe “Church” that existed since the beginning of time – the Bride of Christ – has nothing to do with builds and denominations D"The rabbinic duality of yetzer hara, the so-called “evil inclination,” and yetzer hatov, the “good inclination,” is more subtle than the names connote. R" well well. I discovered "aven" in Hebrew, and the Jews have already written something close to this idea of mine. Mrs White calls the Hebrew word "aven" propensities. I cannot understand why Jews invent yester ra, when the term aven already exists?DUH – because it is (yester ra) not (yester evil)H205 – אָוֶן - 'âven - From an unused root perhaps meaning properly to pant (hence to exert oneself, usually in vain; to come to naught); strictly nothingness; also trouble, vanity, wickedness; specifically an idol: - affliction, evil, false, idol, iniquity, mischief, mourners (-ing), naught, sorrow, unjust, unrighteous, vain, vanity, wicked (-ness.) D"If you had no (yester ra) ‘programmed self-preservation’ you would be dead by now R explain, you lack discussion as usualSo you do not understand the concept of – Self-Preservation? Do you drive the speed limit – do you watch your diet – do you practice safety around guns? – WHY?D"So you tell me – how does adding THE to a word change its meaning? R" first the letter in Ancient Hebrew is "hey" a letter meaning "Behold the Person" And when it appears next to the word "oppose/opposer" as it comes with verb and noun forms, the word meaning becomes, "Behold the Person, who opposes" and refers to a BEING, the ha-satan is a personal being who opposes GOD and opposes Humans. OK – please show your phrase to me in scripture Where does scripture ever speak of THE SATAN?Please list all your verse – both in English and Hebrew – in the ahl/OT Or in English and Greek in the agl/NTI have asked you why and how these words can become two separate beings, but you have not supplied me with one link or study to explain. SO my conclusion of your satan/satanas is just a invention on your part. Gee – why don’t you take part in the satn –vrs- satans word study – you say does not exist?
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