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Post by Dave on Jan 15, 2022 0:55:03 GMT -5
RP" R If what you say is true, than your old spirit must die D" What a bunch of nonsense – if you fill your car with gas – do you drain the tank first? It is called being FILLED – Spirit FILLED – How does God’s Spirit FILL you – by witnessing to our SPIRIT – SPIRIT TO SPIRIT COMMUNIUON
R" so you are saying our old memories are not removed, DUH – did the disciples forget who they are? Did Paul forget that he was a man of flesh? – “Miserable man am I”
our old spirit who is us, remains with us, YES – we are still us – Robert is still Robert – Bill is still Bill
and we learn by communion of the Spirit of God with our spirit, we gnosis and are saved in this way? You say it is a sin to lie – so why do you continually bear false witness against me, this forum, and mainstream Judaism and/or Christianity 1- belief is all that is require for salvation 2- Christ promised the Comforter to come and teach spirit to spirit 3- no one has ever denied belief – or faith – studying scripture – learning more and more with your mind / intellect – no one has ever denied that the Comforter helps with this slow gradual growth in faith of which you preach 4- Every disciple of Jesus Christ was a 100% Believer – Thomas is the very definition of a 100% believer All of the disciples – love Jesus the man as well as Christ the God – 100% Faith
Elisha’s servant could have had more belief / faith and worked harder than you know – he was a Temple servant onto a Prophet
5- Jesus told them to wait in Jerusalem for MORE – for something called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit 6- Pentecost – was something MORE – the Spirit flowed our among the people 7- Laying on the hands and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts – is a 100% real Jewish thing
Elisha’s servant was not Elisha who could spiritually discern There have been many Catholic priests – but there was only one Saint Francis of Assi
R" We have another difference don't we Dave? Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? R " As sinners we have to die the same way Jesus died, Jesus died laying down His life as a sin-offering for sin confessed unto the divine Saviour. WOW – what an anti-Christian teaching Jesus Christ born all our sins – He died for our mortal sins so that we may avoid the spiritual death
What of those at Rapture? You deny the rapture – all these people just fall over dead?
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Please explain your view Dave. You have the idea that the old spirit continues to learn and be filled with the Spirit of GOD to our spirit , the same spirit that is eternal from day 6 of Creation. More false witness – can you help yourself ?
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen 1:5 … And the evening and the morning were the first day.
our spirit , the same spirit that is eternal from day 1 of Creation.
Whereas I get the impression we have to die in Jesus, everything has to die, our soul, our mind, our body and our spirit, all dies in the grave and we are resurrected in Jesus under his spirit. Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Why do you deny this basic Christian principle? - whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Quotes from Ellen White, as I am uncertain of this process in detail; "Their religion (Pharisees) was made up of a round of ceremonies, through the performance of which they expected to gain the favor of God. They had no desire for a gospel that called for obedience to the word, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3. They felt that a religion based on such a doctrine, required too great a sacrifice, and they clung to their errors, deceiving themselves and others. "
Agree – but for historical accuracy - Their religion (Pharisees) was made up of a round of ceremonies Pharisees – were the teachers – they were the thinkers – they were the authors of the Kabbalah Sadducees – maintained Temple ritual – they were the religious thought police – the task masters
They had no desire for a gospel that called for obedience to the word Agree – the religious establishment wanted to maintain the status quo – keep their positions of power, fame, and fortune - world
"..“Born again” means a transformation, a new birth in Christ Jesus. " YES – do not disagree – when Christ returns as the Comforter and touches your spirit – spirit to spirit You never forget – belief in the intangible just became cold hard tangible fact!
"The lesson which Christ gave to Nicodemus is ..., but the most important knowledge to be gained is the experimental knowledge of what it means to be born again. "
Agree – but not experimental – but empirical – fact – life changing gnosis - reality
"“Nicodemus saith unto Him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb, and be born?” R" So Mrs White is speaking of changing the propensities witin our body, and mind. It is nothing your can do by your own power
What the SDA creed on baptism says" BELIEF 15: BAPTISM By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and testify of our death to sin and of our purpose to walk in newness of life. Thus we acknowledge Christ as Lord and Saviour, become His people, and are received as members by His church. Baptism is a symbol of our union with Christ, the forgiveness of our sins, OK – belief – public profession – faith
and our reception of the Holy Spirit. ARROGANT NOT the same as the Baptism of the Holy Spirit – Born Again – First Fruits Christian
It is by immersion in water The man on the cross next to Jesus had no time for this worldly – public confession
and is contingent on an affirmation of faith in Jesus and evidence of repentance of sin. YES – this is the path of belief – faith
R" Not enough details. The SDA speak of union with Christ. Correct – the SDA lack the whole story – they deny the spirit so their theology fails
I would say we become more like Christ, in a physical sense. NO – absolutely not – you leave the leper – the crippled and infirmed – the deformed - out of your model of perfection – biology has nothing to do with it
I would say we become more like Christ, in a spiritual sense. What do you mean – you deny the spirit – this is no spirit – there is only the pantheism of the Holy Spirit You mock those who claim such an experience
I would say we become more like clones of Christ, in a physical and spiritual sense. Gnostic = we are not to be followers of Christ – we are to become Christs (word attack – heresy) Abraham, Moses, and King Cyrus are all Christs – because they are all saviors Jesus told Peter to get behind him satan (function – hindering God’s Plan for Christ) So we are to be disciples (Jer 1:5) We are to – “love one another as He loved us” We are to become a Christ (savior – to another) function What are we doing when we are (a savior to another function) = we are generating FRUIT
"Since there is only one God, one Lord, one Spirit, one faith, one hope, and one body, there can be only one symbol (one type of baptism, by immersion) to represent the beginning of a new life and our identification with these great facts of Christianity and our acceptance into the body of Christ, the church. Matthew 3:13-16; Ephesians 4:3-6."
R" Interesting. How can you speak of our spirit that communes with Christ's spirit, if there is one spirit through which we are saved?
I really do not grasp your confusion There is only one Spirit by which we are save THROUGH - Christ = God = HS our spirit that communes with Christ's spirit, - Communion – our spirit to Holy Spirit = Christ = Comforter = God
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. R" Wow, our old spirit must die, our old body must die, our soul must die, and we are raised from the water cleansed of all our sins, and we become in Jesus, one spirit. What are you trying to teach – we become Jesus? Our spirit is our spirit – it is who we are
1Co 6:17 ὁ δὲ κολλώμενος τῷ Κυρίῳ ἓν πνεῦμά ἐστι. Verb = G2853 – κολλάω - From κόλλα kolla (“glue”); to glue, that is, (passively or reflexively) to stick (figuratively): - cleave, join (self), keep company.
τῷ Κυρίῳ Case: Dative (indirect object, "to"; also location "in",)
He that keeps company with the King is one in spirit with the King Stumble over words if you choose – then you do not have to see
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. The one Body = the church the Bride of Christ The one Spirit that we all dribk from = the Comforter – the HS
Ga 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: Written by Paul – “Miserable man that I am”
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Not the idea Dave has, we come to the Father with our own spirit that communes with the Spirit, ye are preaching multiply spirits, no we come to GOD via the Spirit of Jesus, one spirit, His spirit, which is recreated in the womb of the HS daily, as our right spirit is developed, it is actually a clone of Jesus spirit, reproduced in us. Nonsense – childish Through Christ (because of what He did for us) we both have access by one Spirit – via the Holy Spirit unto the Father. – YEP – Spirit to spirit communion Php 1:27 ¶ Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Mainstream teaching – here at little there a little and it all points to the whole – Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 + Isa 28:10
Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
To me this implies we begin with Jesus as a seed in us, and we develop a spirit of GOD within us, that becomes our new character like Jesus, our spirit if you will, that the HS witnesses to our spirit, we have become children of GOD. we develop a spirit of GOD within us – now who teaches that we are just fragments of ‘Divine Sparks’ of God
Not as Dave says, we are already a spirit from day 6 and once we gnosis and commune with GOD via God's spirit, does our spirit become worthy to become a child of GOD. More false witness from Robert – misrepresenting me, this forum, and mainstream Christianity Dave says, we are already a spirit from day 6 – scripture say Day 1 once we gnosis and commune - Sorry – it is more like once we commune we gnosis only then does our spirit become worthy to become a child of GOD. – Sorry Robert – belief is all that is required for salvation
You have created the notion we live for eternity in the same spirit was had from day 6 of Creation, Jewish theology = we were created as eternal spirit beings on Day 1 But the commandment was to die now and surely die in the future Because of Eve (man – Adam) PROVED that all men are sinners – all men must die a mortal death – and there will surely die a future death (death of spirit) the second death – lake of Fire
The serpent said – negative Did the serpent lie – NO – because through Jesus Christ we have the option to repent, be saves from that second death, return to God as the Prodigal Son, and spend eternity with God
whereas I see we live only in the spirit Jesus gives us when we enter into the death of Jesus upon baptism. And this process is done daily by faith. It starts with faith, and is consecrated by baptism, and later becomes matured or quickened by the HS.
this process is done daily by faith Why do you deny that the Cross is enough once and for all
Joh 19:30 … Jesus … he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2022 16:22:42 GMT -5
RP " our old spirit who is us, remains with us,D YES – we are still us – Robert is still Robert – Bill is still BillR" Than you have not been born again, as nothing died... Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.Yes I agree our old nature is still with us, but you seem to think we get a brand new body with our old thoughts via our spirit? Why have a body to begin with? You view makes no sense. When the serpent said ye shall not surely die? Did the serpent introduce the spirit idea that never dies? You say the serpent do not introduce new ideas of truth? I beg to differ. Your spirit thing comes from the serpent. D" 2- Christ promised the Comforter to come and teach spirit to spiritQuestion: DO we receive a brand new spirit of Jesus upon salvation in His Name, or is it just Jesus spirit in communion with our spirit? You do not understand what faith is about? It is the process of cloning Jesus spirit upon us, until our "spirit" (ie nashamah) becomes the breathing of Jesus spirit. We become like Him. Sure we develop a different personality of love in Jesus spirit, so I use the term "clone" loosely. But we do not have our spirit communing with Jesus spirit, we must become Jesus' spirit, and thus develop His spirit in us. Our old spirit must die, never to exist again. D" 7- Laying on the hands and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts – is a 100% real Jewish thingR" Yes your spirit is empowered by His spirit. COrrect. But you have two spirits here, Jesus and you, both separate and independent. My understanding is we are to die with Jesus, and our spirit dies as well and we are raised in Jesus spirit, to develop slowly as our spirit, not the same spirit from day 6, as you claim. We begin again as a seed, and are truly recreated in the womb of compassion. D "Jesus Christ born all our sins – He died for our mortal sins so that we may avoid the spiritual deathR" WHat is spiritual death Dave? Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Explain this verse to me, according to your view. If we are baptised into Jesus death, than our old spirit must die in this baptism... D" Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. R" you missed a key word "pisteuo" faith in Jesus. We have to by faith, daily, use the womb of compassion to clone our new spirit of Jesus over our old spirit that has died, so we develop a brand new spirit, which is actually Jesus spirit in us. Since Jesus is the only sinless person in humanity, we have to be similes of Jesus, in order to live forever. Thus our spirit is His spirit and our body is his body, this is daily created in the womb of God, a process called faith. I simplify the process, but you get my drift, and do not understand anyhow? D" our spirit , the same spirit that is eternal from day 1 of Creation.R" Yes our old nature, our old spirit, must die in baptism, or else ye are not born again There is a second creative process mentioned after Genesis Dave. You forget Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Right here, in the womb of God, the second birth, you are developed daily in Jesus. D" Why do you deny this basic Christian principle? - whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.R" still stuck on believe? not correct word? pisteuo, faith, we have to have faith in Jesus. Joh 3:16 For God so maleness-loved the world, that he gave his "one and only" Son, that whosoever "has faith" in him should not perish, but have "ongoing-living". (Ancient Hebrew translation) Other OT texts? Only one exists in the torah Hab 2:4 ...but the just shall live by his faith. Does the Lengingrad Codex say this also? RP" I would say we become more like clones of Christ, in a physical and spiritual sense.D" Gnostic = we are not to be followers of Christ – we are to become Christs (word attack – heresy) Abraham, Moses, and King Cyrus are all Christs – because they are all saviorsR" I would agree with you here Except you deny our spirit must die and we rise with Jesus spirit developed in us? This is a second creation, Ps 51:8-10, our spirit from first creation must die, and the second creation via Jesus via the HS becomes the new spirit of us. DO you agree with this idea? D" There is only one Spirit by which we are save THROUGH - Christ = God = HS our spirit that communes with Christ's spirit, - Communion – our spirit to Holy Spirit = Christ = Comforter = GodR" twist. No our old spirit must die in Jesus, and we develop Jesus spirit in us as our new spirit, hence we have been born again, and created again daily in Jesus. We must become Jesus, as you have said. Not as you say communion with our old spirit from day 6, but develop Jesus spirit in us from a daily second creation. D "What are you trying to teach – we become Jesus? Our spirit is our spirit – it is who we areR" Hmm? Our old spirit must die, than we put upon us Jesus spirit and develop Jesus spirit is us, first as a seed and later it develops as us, than is communes with God more. DO you understand this process? After a while our spirit of Jesus, becomes unique from Jesus, as we walk and choose different promises of Jesus power. We are of Jesus, but not Jesus, we live under his powers, but become personalities that are developed uniquely. D" He that keeps company with the King is one in spirit with the KingR" Oh now you have multiple gods, you and your king. That is not how the love and loving works. Your old spirit dies, and the new spirit is developed only by one source of love and power, so the two persons are developed by one source of love, and one source of love only. Now you have not two beings, but one being in the form of two personalities of love. You are essentially the same as your king, since you drink of the same love the King drinks of. D" The one Body = the church the Bride of Christ R" correct , one body, you and the king are one body, not two beings. D" YEP – Spirit to spirit communionR" No, you old spirit must die for it has sinned. Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Than you are raised in newness of life, with Jesus spirit. One spirit dies, and one spirit is raised in you. That is what baptism means. Not as you claim communion. You are claiming you old spirit goes into the waters of the HS and you rise with your old spirit in communion with Jesus spirit? No, than you have not been born again. Everything must die, your body, your soul and your spirit, than you rise with a new body and a new soul and a new spirit, the spirit of Jesus. Once in the womb of God, the development of us begins over again, as a first birth takes 9 months, the second birth takes your whole life, and more, you are created daily to develop Jesus spirit in you. D" More false witness from Robert – misrepresenting me, this forum, and mainstream ChristianityExplain you view than...for other readers.... D" Why do you deny that the Cross is enough once and for allR" that is the penalty for sin. I am talking about the recreation of the right spirit inside of us. Isa 48:16 ¶ Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Who is HIS SPIRIT here? Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: Who is HIS SPIRIT here? Mr 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Who is HIS SPIRIT here? Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Who is HIS SPIRIT here that dwells is us? Notice we become SONs of GOD? what is the spirit of adoption? When the HS witnesses to our spirit, whose spirit is this in us? must be an adopted spirit? the same spirit that dwells in us? 1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:? Who is HIS SPIRIT here? Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; Who is HIS SPIRIT here in the inner man? 1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. So what about our old spirit from our first birth? Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Is our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin? Or do you negate this idea, saying only the body sins but the spirit remains sinless from day 1 of creation? My point is the old nature, must die, your spirit must die, your body die, your soul die, in the water of baptism. And you rise up in Jesus, the same as Jesus. With his spirit and his body. But like clothes , these things are put one gradually, lest Jesus removes the old you immediately upon baptism. Ye are recreated slowly in your old nature, not made brand new immediately. But it is spoken as a death for a reason, you die daily and you are reborn daily in Jesus via faith. SHalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 16, 2022 21:54:53 GMT -5
RP "our old spirit who is us, remains with us, D YES – we are still us – Robert is still Robert – Bill is still Bill R" Than you have not been born again, as nothing died...Re 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.YES – this is what “Feel Good Christians” preach – it is an empty message And as more and more people wake up to this empty message – they leave the church BECAUSE THE TRUTH = tears, death, sorrow, and crying, + pain – are all aspects of our reality – the ContestInstead – we should be taughtThe Exegesis on the Soul - The Nag Hammadi LibraryFor the beginning of salvation is repentance. Therefore (cf. Acts 13:24), "Before Christ`s appearance came John, preaching the baptism of repentance."
And repentance takes place in distress and grief. But the father is good and loves humanity, and he hears the soul that calls upon him and sends it the light of salvation. Therefore he said through the spirit to the prophet (cf. 1 Cl 8:3), "Say to the children of my people, 'If your sins extend from earth to heaven, and if they become red like scarlet and blacker than sackcloth, and if you return to me with all your soul and say to me 'my Father!', I will heed you as a holy people.'"Yes I agree our old nature is still with us, Robert will judge you - R" Than you have not been born again, as nothing died...”but you seem to think we get a brand new body with our old thoughts via our spirit?More False witness from RobertI do not know what you even mean - so how can I respond We have a spirit body – why do we need a new body for something? Why have a body to begin with? Your view makes no sense. We have a spirit body – it is who we areYou mean – why do we come into this world to have a 3D body – body of biologyAnswer – IT IS THE MEANING OF LIFE – it is why you were created – IT IS YOUR PURPOSE HERE – it is your assignment here – IT IS YOUR COMMISSIONJer 1:5 Before I fashioned thee in thy mothers wombe, I dyd knowe thee: and or euer thou wast borne, I sanctified thee, and ordeyned thee to be a prophete vnto the people.How can we witness to this world – if we are not here – DUHEve knew this – she stepped down into the lower world – to fulfil her commission D"2- Christ promised the Comforter to come and teach spirit to spirit Question: DO we receive a brand new spirit of Jesus upon salvation in His Name, or is it just Jesus spirit in communion with our spirit?Rom 8:16 The same spirite, beareth witnesse to our spirite, that we are ye sonnes of God. D" 7- Laying on the hands and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts – is a 100% real Jewish thing R" Yes your spirit is empowered by His spirit. COrrect. But you have two spirits here, Jesus and you, both separate and independent. Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God; YEP – the Spirit of God = the HS and our spirit D"Jesus Christ born all our sins – He died for our mortal sins so that we may avoid the spiritual death R" WHat is spiritual death Dave?Second death at the lake of Fire – for the Millionth timeRo 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Explain this verse to me, according to your view. If we are baptised into Jesus death, than our old spirit must die in this baptism... His death is sufficient for all of us D"Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. R" you missed a key word "pisteuo" faith in Jesus.G4100 – πιστεύω -From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. G4102 – πίστις - From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction G3982 – πείθω - A primary verb; to convince To convince, moral conviction, put trust in, to have faith – to believeWe have to by faith, daily, Your teaching that we can lose our salvation is anti-Christian teachingYou teach you have to do something every day to maintain your salvation is nonsense - Just how many times does Jesus have to climb that cross for you? D" our spirit , the same spirit that is eternal from day 1 of Creation. R" Yes our old nature, our old spirit, must die in baptism, or else ye are not born again There is a second creative process mentioned after Genesis Dave. You forgetGen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Sorry – no new creation – no second creation – no second creatorJoh 3:16 …—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. Joh 3:16 … that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Joh 3:16 … that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. D"Why do you deny this basic Christian principle? - whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. R" still stuck on believe? not correct word? pisteuo, faith, we have to have faith in Jesus.G4100, G4102, G6982 - To convince, moral conviction, put trust in, to have faith – to believeOnly one exists in the torah
Hab 2:4 ...but the just shall live by his faith.H530 – אֱמֻנָה - Feminine of H529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity: - faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily. H529 – אֵמוּן - From H539; established, that is, (figuratively) trusty; also (abstractly) trustworthiness: - faith (-ful), truth. H539 – אָמַן - 'âman - A primitive root; properly to build up or support; to foster as a parent or nurse; figuratively to render (or be) firm or faithful, to trust or believe, to be permanent or quiet; morally to be true or certain; once (in Isa_30:21; by interchange for H541) to go to the right hand: - hence assurance, believe, bring up, establish, + fail, be faithful (of long continuance, stedfast, sure, surely, trusty, verified), nurse, (-ing father), (put), trust, turn to the right. Interesting - H541 – אָמַן - 'âman - Denominative from H3225; to take the right hand road: - turn to the right. See H539. H3225 – יָמִין - yâmı̂yn - From H3231; the right hand or side (leg, eye) of a person or other object (as the stronger and more dexterous); Hab 2:4 ...but the just shall live by his faithfirmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity: - faith trusty; also (abstractly) trustworthiness: - faith (-ful), truth. support; to foster as a parent or nurse; figuratively to render (or be) firm or faithful, to trust or believe, to be permanent or quiet; morally to be true or certain Does the Lengingrad Codex say this also?RP" I would say we become more like clones of Christ, in a physical and spiritual sense. D" Gnostic = we are not to be followers of Christ – we are to become Christs (word attack – heresy) Abraham, Moses, and King Cyrus are all Christs – because they are all saviors R" I would agree with you here This is FUNCTION – physical – worldly – diet - has absolutely nothing to do with it Except – if it interferes with our witnessYou cannot witness to a Jew or Muslim by inviting them to a pork roast Your witness to and anorexic will not be meaningful if you are a big fat slob As a vegan – your witness to the cattleman’s association will not go well Except you deny our spirit must die and we rise with Jesus spirit developed in us?Life lives – the only death of spirit is the second death at the Lake of Fire – no return This is a second creation, Ps 51:8-10, DO you agree with this idea?NO – bara = to fatten – to enlarge – to expand Our spirit is filled – filled up – refreshed with the truth D"He that keeps company with the King is one in spirit with the King R" Oh now you have multiple gods, you and your king. More false witness from Robert – There is Only One True God – that exist as a Trinity – God that no man can see – Spirit that man can experience – and the image (God incarnate) that we can see Man is an unique and independent individual all of his own All the angels are not just fragments of the HS – they are unique and independent individuals All the archon are not just fragments of the HS – they are unique and independent individuals All the cows are not just fragments of the HS – they are unique and independent individuals All the cockroaches are not just fragments of the HS they are unique and independent individuals D"The one Body = the church the Bride of Christ R" correct , one body, you and the king are one body, not two beings.WOW – so all the people inside your church share one biological body – so intelligent – or is this a sex orgyEverything must die, your body, your soul and your spirit, than you rise with a new body and a new soul and a new spirit, the spirit of Jesus. And you teach that the spirit of Jesus died on the cross – so Jesus Christ is in the grave awaiting the first resurrection laterIsa 48:16 ¶ Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Who is HIS SPIRIT here? – DUH – the Holy Spirit Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets: Who is HIS SPIRIT here? - DUH – the Holy Spirit – it is called Communion – spirit to spirit in the ahl/OTMr 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Who is HIS SPIRIT here? – DUH = the spirit of Jesus = (Christ) = God incarnate = God = HSWho is HIS SPIRIT here that dwells is us? - DUH = the spirit of Jesus = (Christ) = God incarnate = God = HSRo 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, = GODhe that raised up Christ from the dead = Godshall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. = Comforter = HS = God = Christ12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: YEP – world is as world does = just worlsd and all the world is temporary and will pass awaybut if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. YES – SELF denial - being led by the spirit = good deeds = works – and hopefully fruit14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. YES – if you are led by the spirit – Born Again – baptized by the HS = First Fruits15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Notice we become SONs of GOD? - what is the spirit of adoption?To claim parentage of someone you did not biologically procreate PRODIGAL SON adopted to THE Father – not our biological earthly sperm doner16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God When the HS witnesses to our spirit, whose spirit is this in us? Our spirit – it is who we are and the HS comes in as the Comforter to teach us spirit to Spirit1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:? Who is HIS SPIRIT here? - - DUH = the spirit of Jesus = (Christ) = God incarnate = God = HSEph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; Who is HIS SPIRIT here - DUH = the spirit of Jesus = (Christ) = God incarnate = God = HSWho is the inner man? – man’s spirit – the inner man – our spirit within the animal man (outer man – shell - vehicle)1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. So what about our old spirit from our first birth?Now we dwell in Him and He dwells in us – spirit to spirit communion6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Is our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin?Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. The serpent did not lie – now we know better We are selfish and greedy Once we are saved – we realize just how selfish and greedy we really are – Paul “Miserable man am I” If we choose – selfishness and greediness (yester ra) deliberately we are worse off than if we never knewRom 2:1 Therefore you are without excuse, O man—every one of you who is judging. For by whatever you judge another, you condemn yourself. For you who judge practice the same things. Rom 2:2 We know that God’s judgment on those who practice such things is based on truth. Rom 2:3 But you, O man—judging those practicing such things yet doing the same—do you suppose that you will escape the judgment of God? Rom 2:4 Or do you belittle the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience—not realizing that God’s kindness leads you to repentance? Rom 2:5 But by your hard and unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment is revealed. Rom 2:6 He will pay back each person according to his deeds. Rom 2:7 To those who by perseverance in doing good are seeking glory, honor, and immortality—eternal life. Rom 2:8 But to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—wrath and fury. Rom 2:9 There will be trouble and hardship for every human soul that does evil—to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Rom 2:10 But there will be glory, honor, and shalom to everyone who does good—to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with God. Or do you negate this idea, saying only the body sins but the spirit remains sinless from day 1 of creation?Deep inside – the inner man knows right from wrong Deep inside – the inner man (yester tov) knows right from wrong Deep inside – Our Spirit (who we really are – the inner man) knows right from wrongIs our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin?All men are graded – judged – according to their mitzvah or chatta2Co 5:1 For we know that if the tent, our earthly home, is torn down, we have a building from God—a home not made with human hands, eternal in the heavens. 2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling— 2Co 5:3 if indeed, after we have put it on, we will not be found naked. 2Co 5:4 For we groan while we are in this tent—burdened because we don’t want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 2Co 5:5 Now the One who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave us the Ruach as a pledge. 2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident and know that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord. 2Co 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and at home with the Lord. 2Co 5:9 So whether at home or absent, we make it our aim to be pleasing to Him. 2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, so that each one may receive what is due for the things he did while in the body—whether good or bad. Is our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin?All men are graded – judged – according to their mitzvah or chatta Believer – and non-believer – Proportional PunishmentBorn Again – Spirit Filled – Baptized by the Holy Spirit – in Communion with the ComforterIs our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin?Here is the conversation that always comes up in a youth group – Will I go to hell for being sexually horney? How can I be walking the walk if every girl I meet gives me an erection? Jewish answer – God knows you are an animal – God told the animal within you to ‘Go Forth and Multiply’ – therefore is sex a sin – NO So when does sex become a sin? Jewish answer – same as work – same as pleasure – same as family – same as sports when it occupies your thoughts In Gnostic words – the mission of the archon is to keep man focused upon world – se we do not have time for devotion to the HS Man can only serve one master – mammon or God If I spend 1hr on my knees in the morning – and 23hrs in football, work, music, career, money – I am a believer practicing my religion If Jesus Christ was a footballer – every play would be dedicated to the glory of the lord If Jesus Christ was a musician - every song would be praise If Jesus Christ was your co-worker – everyone would have heard the Gospel It is not what we do – but how we do itJoseph was outcast by his brothers Sold into slavery Did his job so well – it caused trouble and he went to jail He was such a model prisoner – he met the Pharaoh He became the second in command of all Egypt He saved his brothers and his father – and the nation of isreal It is not what we do – but how we do itJoseph was a Born Again – baptized by the Holy Spirit Christian – interpreting dreams This was/is a spiritual event – Elisha’s servant – floating ax head – Isaiah’s fire – Ezekiel’s visions – etc etc etc – many many ahl/OT examples Is our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin?When we are in Communion – we do not sinThings I would do in front of my wife that I would not do in front of you Things I would do in front of you but not the boss Things I would do in front of the boss – that I would not do on national television Now – what are the thing I would not do in the presence of the Lord! When we are in Communion – we do not sinTo be a Born Again Christian does not mean that we are each an Elisha – or Saint Francis of Assi How many times must you be burned by the fire to gnosis it is hot – ONCE – it changes your perception forever Example – the Ministry of Kim Clement comes to mindDoes he walk around speaking in tongues – NO – does it happen yes – there are moments Examples of the witness posted by Dillon - did they walk around speaking in tongues – NO – does it happen –YES One of his examples did have anything to do with speaking in tongues – just Baptism of the Holy Spirit Is our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin?When we are in Communion – we do not sinWhen we are not hand to hand with the Holy Spirit – WE KNOW BETTER If we know better and CHOOSE to chatta anyway – we are judged more harshlyMat 5:19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Jas 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers and sisters, since you know that we will receive a stricter judgment. Jas 4:17 Therefore whoever knows the right thing to do and does not do it—for him it is sin. Is our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin?Finally your answer1- there are sins of the flesh – yes we are animal – it all dies with the body – thoughts, intellect, mind perish that day So youR answer = NO2- there are sins of the flesh – that can drag us – lure us – tempt us – into spiritual sin One way or another – you are placing – self – selfish desire - WORLD before Holy Spirit / God No god of evil required – no evil spirits – no archon – just man vrs world So the answer is SOMETIMESIs Porn sin – answer if you have to put God down to do it – the sin is putting God down Is football as sin – answer – if it is your dedication instead of God - – the sin is putting God down Is work a sin (I always thought so) – if it is your dedication instead of God - – the sin is putting God down Make a list if you want to – stealing – hurting – cheating – coveting – honoring If you can do it in front of God without guilt – it is not a sin Where does your guilt come from? – (yester tov), the inner man, our real spirit selves – who walked with God and was taught the Torah – before we were born AS the Rabbi said – each and every chatta stains our soul More stain = more time in Proportional Punishment Each and every mitzvah = vote for parole Jewish Proportional Punishment until purified – then onto eternal life OR – the Divine Pardon – given to those who do God’s work well – Joshua – Moses – Elijah – Enoch = First Fruits – as witness in Rev 20:4 OR – the Jewish do over – yes reincarnation Why the do over – reincarnation = because Jewish God is tov = fair Aborted fetuses – small children – the innocent used in another’s Contest (Children of Job) All have a fair opportunity to be the Prodigal Son and retune to God by your own Free Will Choice My point is the old nature, must die, your spirit must die, your body die, your soul die, in the water of baptism.The Spirit of Jesus Christ – who is Crist – who is God incarnate – did not die on the cross – it was released back into heaven And you rise up in Jesus, the same as Jesus. With his spirit and his body. But like clothes , Nice sermon – but you are still you – Paul was still Paulthese things are put one gradually, Absolutely no one denies that believer can grow in their faith lest Jesus removes the old you immediately upon baptism. If you are talking about the baptism of the Holy Spirit – why do you support theology you have worked so hard to deny Ye are recreated slowly in your old nature,Absolutely no one denies that believer can grow in their faithnot made brand new immediately. lest Jesus removes the old you immediately upon baptismWhich view is yours? Cannot tell from this post! Double speak / Flip FlopBut it is spoken as a death for a reason, you die daily and you are reborn daily in Jesus via faith.blog.biblesforamerica.org/eternal-security-verses/Proofs Your Salvation Is Eternally SecureJoh 10:27 My sheep hear My voice. I know them, and they follow Me. Joh 10:28 I give them eternal life! They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. Joh 10:29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. And no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. Eph 1:4 He chose us in the Messiah before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before Him in love. Predestination Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2022 15:07:08 GMT -5
D"Answer – IT IS THE MEANING OF LIFE – it is why you were created – IT IS YOUR PURPOSE HERE – it is your assignment here – IT IS YOUR COMMISSION
Jer 1:5 Before I fashioned thee in thy mothers wombe, I dyd knowe thee: and or euer thou wast borne, I sanctified thee, and ordeyned thee to be a prophete vnto the people.
How can we witness to this world – if we are not here – DUH Eve knew this – she stepped down into the lower world – to fulfil her commission R" OK so I must have poor reading comprehension according to you, so re-write this in different words Dave. What are you talking about?
Are you saying a spirit also includes a spirit body, so when our spirit and spirit body chooses to enter a biological body we have entered into our commission to witness to the RA inside the biological body, so our free will inside our spirit mind can be developed? What a complicated arrangement this is?
Why couldn't God just have the spirit with it's spirit body be created with free will? What in the world is free will according to you? Obviously not congitive intelligence? Just the ability to choose GOD?
If you are created as a spirit with a spirit body, arn't you already created to choose God? But no, you seem to think free will cannot exist unless BAD exists? I do not get your thinking.
D"Rom 8:16 The same spirite, beareth witnesse to our spirite, that we are ye sonnes of God. R" so you agree your spirit with it's spirit body is just in communion with God's spirit?
When you die in Christ in baptism, nothing dies, only the body dies full of ra. But if the decisions of life are made by the spirit and the spirit body, why does the body have to die, if it's not something of the cognitive mind?
Your views make no sense.
D"YEP – the Spirit of God = the HS and our spirit R" so you do not die in baptism in Jesus death, so you have no second birth. What exactly Dave is reborn in your view? Nothing I see.
The biological body with RA, might die, but it cannot make decisions anyway, so why does this have anything to do with anything, all your free will comes from the spirit in it's spirit body. SO I see nothing about a second birth in your view, so your whole view is false.
RP"If we are baptised into Jesus death, than our old spirit must die in this baptism... D" His death is sufficient for all of us R" do you have a reading comprehension of a 4th grade, can't you read what I wrote? You made no discussion, only a dribble...
SO I see nothing about a second birth in your view , that dies with Jesus, so your whole view is false.
According to my view, your old spirit must die, your old thinking must die, your old body must die, everything must die, and you rise a rewewed spirit, a renewed thinking brain and a renewed body of DNA.
But in your view, you have only communion, but nothing dies.
You rise from the waters of baptism with your same old spirit in communion to Jesus spirit.
IN my view we rise from the waters of baptism with in Jesus' spirit. Our old spirit daily dies and is replaced slowly with a brand new spirit of Jesus.
D"G4100 – πιστεύω -From G4102; to have faith R" Does that mean you agree with me, or you wish to publish your scholarly precepts of men?
D"Your teaching that we can lose our salvation is anti-Christian teaching R" change subjects again?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Oh sorry that prophet you find so hard to accept as inspired.
D"There is a second creative process mentioned after Genesis Dave. You forget Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Sorry – no new creation – no second creation – no second creator
R" Well , well, than you neglect the entire scriptures about salvation than Dave.
What about the second creation called salvation?
Why do you deny this?
Ps 51:10 Create in me
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Dave denys that GOD can recreate?
D"Sorry – no new creation – no second creation – no second creator
Joh 3:16 …—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. Joh 3:16 … that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Joh 3:16 … that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
R" What do you think "pisteou" or "amanuah" is? Just a belief or faith, ?
Is not faith a flow of power from Jesus? What is the purpose of this power? Is it not to recreate aspects in your daily walk with Jesus?
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Create in me a right spirit.... who's spirit is this? Certainly not your old spirit... but the spirit of Jesus.
Ps 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Why a broken spirit Dave? Why doesn't it say we commune to GOD with our spirit to His spirit? It does not say that. It says a broken spirit? H7665 Jeff Benner says a "bursting spirit" the SEED of Jesus breaks into your soul, flooding onto the floor of your body. The pressed home head.
Wow. WHO is the HOME HEAD? These are the first letters of Gen 1:1. "HOME HEAD authority presses with active hands towards an important mark, the HOME HEAD AUTHORITY (via) the Strong Authority of the Divine Person (of GOD) with active hands flow; strongly towards the important mark; {the heaven} (the persons pressed flow actively flows) over the nations strongly towards the important mark, BEHOLD the STRONG HEAD travels (picture of earth)". (translation of all the letters in Gen 1:1 according to Ancient Hebrew, written consistently for each letter as it is written, some are grouped as words from letters in { } and some have English helpers ( ) to make the meanings flow.
The broken spirit we must sacrifice is Jesus, the HOME HEAD that is bursting out over our soul.
Ps 51:12 Return unto me the joy of thy YASHUA ; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Again we are to return to Yashua and uphold HIS Spirit within us.
H3559 Jeff Benner "firm" the palms secured over the nations.
The firm spirit of Jesus is recreated, renewed daily in us, using the powers of faith. Faith is a recreative process of GOD's powers flowingh through you. You say His words in humility and the power of creative God flows into you.
But Dave seems to deny that GOD has re-creative powers?
D"This is FUNCTION – physical – worldly – diet - has absolutely nothing to do with it R" Again you are wrong Dave. Sorry. The vagus nerve runs from the brain to the stomach, so appetite is the first and most difficult sin to remove from our lives, apart from Baal master of SELF. I would list appetite as the second sin most difficult to remove, and notice the biological link from the stomach to the brain, the seat of our spirit.
If we did have a independent spirit with a spirit body that volunteered to enter our body of RA from birth, than why the biological nerve link to our brain? Your view makes no sense. The second birth implies a complete change to our soul, our body and our spirit...not just communion, but the death of our of spirit, and we can only have Jesus spirit in us, not two spirits as your claim.
No man can serve two masters.... Baal must die, and Jesus as our master must live. Our old spirit must die as well, or you are not born again.
RP" Except you deny our spirit must die and we rise with Jesus spirit developed in us? D" Life lives – the only death of spirit is the second death at the Lake of Fire – no return R pithy remark, no discussion Dave. You deny the second birth process in the HS. D"NO – bara = to fatten – to enlarge – to expand Our spirit is filled – filled up – refreshed with the truth
R" Dave the word bara does not mean to fill up only. It is the "HOME HEAD AUTHORITY" the power of Jesus to do. It is also a power humans can do as well. Twice Scripture says go into the woods and with your own home head authority do something with the timber.
Fill up the timber? No, engineer something from the timber? Yes Fits all the verses and thus is the better meaning in English.
D"Our spirit is filled – filled up – refreshed with the truth R" you ignore more Scripture...
Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Our soul must die in Jesus. Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
Our old spirit must be crucified with Jesus, the Scritpures plainly teach. Prove me wrong. You deny the second born process of the HS.
D"All the angels are not just fragments of the HS – they are unique and independent individuals R" Can't you quote me correctly. The word ruwach does not mean HS literally for all verses, but the word "medium" for all verses, "wind" is a medium. HS means "holy medium" a functional descriptor of the Shadday allowing the Father's flow into a RA world. Everything that lives Dave lives inside the medium of GOD, administrated by the HS. You cannot deny that, nobody is immortal . Ony God is living. ANd only GOD imparts living to the creatures. Yes we are "unique and independent individuals" you misquote me, to mock me and establish you pride. I am glad to have discusssed deep issues with you, for our spirit is the "nashamah" a different Hebrew word often embedded with "ruwach" in the phrase the "breath of life". SO yes we do have a functional spirit that is developed as us, by us, called "a spirit" that is our "character".
D"WOW – so all the people inside your church share one biological body R" Yes we were were echad and without sin and complete in Jesus. You said yourself we become as Jesus. Suppose there were 30 candles of Jesus in a room, how many Jesus do we have ? ONE
Try to understand the Hebrew meaning of eachad. Compound unity. We have a trillion heart cells. Each cell is linked by nerves to work as one. An independent heart cell is called cancer and thus killed by the body. Not allowed, we work as one.
Ex 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.
Understand the meaning of eachad. "One voice, but many people spoke".
D"And you teach that the spirit of Jesus died on the cross – so Jesus Christ is in the grave awaiting the first resurrection later R" do you deny the resurrection of Jesus as the FIRST FRUITS?
RP" Who is HIS SPIRIT here that dwells is us? D" - DUH = the spirit of Jesus = (Christ) = God incarnate = God = HS R" so why do you also include your spirit in communion with his spirit? You have two masters in you, and you deny the process of the second birth. Nothing is changed from the Old Dave. RP" Notice we become SONs of GOD? - what is the spirit of adoption? D" To claim parentage of someone you did not biologically procreate PRODIGAL SON adopted to THE Father – not our biological earthly sperm doner R" OK but who was the creator of your spirit and spirit body living in your RA body? The Father is.
So what or where is the spirit of adoption from Dave's new spirit? You have not one. You deny the process of the second birth in the womb of the HS of GOD. Nothing is reborn from the Old Dave. Nothing from Dave is adopted, if your spirit is living inside you in communion with God's spirit.
You old spirit must die. Than you rise with only God's spirit living renewed inside you. One master. Not two.
RP" When the HS witnesses to our spirit, whose spirit is this in us? D" Our spirit – it is who we are R" no, it is the spirit of Jesus we as stewards of His power are reproducing in us or responding to His love in us. That character development of HIS love is termed our breathing with His powers of Love, and those memories and experiences of using His love and power is recorded by the HS and so the HS witnesses to our spirit we are children using the powers of Jesus via His Faith.
Never can we make so bold a claim to own anything of GOD. You are not to rise in pride. We are only stewards of His grace and love and power, never owners of his love and power. When you use the powers of Jesus via faith, you can never own that power. Sure it is credited to you as an example of your straightness with GOD, but you alone can never make a crooked line straight. It takes two points to make a crooked line straight. A relationship makes the person straight. You must connect to His spirit and you become straight. One spirit and One master.
The Hebrew word nashamah is nice. It means the breathing we do using the wind of GOD.
SO we breathe using HIs wind, but never could we say, it is our wind to breathe as we wish? No such arrogance is a sin.
Unless your independent spirit dies and is changed to being totally dependent upon Christ, you are not reborn, nor experienced the baptism of GOD via the HS. You remain unchanged and un-recreated of GOD.
D"Now we dwell in Him and He dwells in us – spirit to spirit communion R" No you have introduced polygamy, two masters, two spirits and multiple gods. We are one master, one spirit and one body, We marry Jesus, the two become ONE flesh. To be frank with you, in Jesus you have nothing that is independent. We are always totally dependent upon Jesus, we live in His faith, and His spirit. We breathe the breath of His salvation, our breaths we do, yes, but never woudl I say, "look at this miracle I have caused",,,, no ye can do nothing without Jesus. "Look at the wonders of Jesus flowing through me, I am so unworthy..."
His spirit must increase, while my spirit must decrease, words of John. We must daily die. Our spirit must die, nothing independent of Jesus must remain inside of us. You deny the presence of salvation.
D"The serpent did not lie – now we know better R" The serpent made a false report. You believe the lie, that we shall never die . God said if you eat of the fruit of SIN, ye will immediately die. Living in sin is a living death process. Only God is kind to allow you to respond while sinking in the mire of sin.
RP" Is our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin? D" All men are graded – judged – according to their mitzvah or chatta R" Can't you answer my question?
RP" Is our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin? D" All men are graded – judged – according to their mitzvah or chatta Believer – and non-believer – Proportional Punishment R" Can't you answer my question?
D"In Gnostic words – the mission of the archon is to keep man focused upon world – se we do not have time for devotion to the HS R" We are not saved by devoting our time to the HS? D"Man can only serve one master – mammon or God If I spend 1hr on my knees in the morning – and 23hrs in football, R" Dave you have two spirits inside you, do deny you serve one master, you are serving two You deny the old spirit of Dave must die, in fact die daily, and you live as a steward of Jesus spirit living inside of you. You cannot become as Jesus with your old spirit in you, It must die.
Born again, but you deny the second birth process.
Nothing is born in Dave's view, your spirit communes with His spirit. Scripture does not teach this idea.
D"It is not what we do – but how we do it R" wrong again. It is precisely what we do and than God does it through us. Have you no idea how faith works?
RP" Is our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin? D" When we are in Communion – we do not sin R" Are you sure you answered my question Dave?
1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
Ye do not have an agent of sin, the devil. When we do not sin, what does this mean according to John here?
It means we no longer worship the agent of sin, the DEVIL, and our relationship remains fixed on Jesus. Not about obeying the laws of Jesus, primarily here John is writing about relationship. Every time you gnosis by faith, you are using His powers, and thus do relationship with HIM. My question you did not answer, when you sin, does the spirit sin in it's spirit body, or only the biological body in it's RA sin? Which is it?
D"When we are in Communion – we do not sin R" Not Biblical Dave, what is communion?
The only communion I know of in Scripture is amanuah. Not other communion process exists.
I would say "when we use faith correctly, we do not miss Jesus power."
D"When we are in Communion – we do not sin When we are not hand to hand with the Holy Spirit – WE KNOW BETTER If we know better and CHOOSE to chatta anyway – we are judged more harshly R" That is not communion, you twist Bible process of communion, is only by faith. You cannot talk or walk directly with GOD to GOD. Moses was an exception because he was very meek. RP" Is our spirit connected to our body, so if the body sins, so must the spirit sin? D" Finally your answer 1- there are sins of the flesh – yes we are animal – it all dies with the body – thoughts, intellect, mind perish that day So youR answer = NO 2- there are sins of the flesh – that can drag us – lure us – tempt us – into spiritual sin One way or another – you are placing – self – selfish desire - WORLD before Holy Spirit / God No god of evil required – no evil spirits – no archon – just man vrs world So the answer is SOMETIMES R" You did not directly answer my question. When your mind chooses to sin, is this caused by the spirit inside you choosing to sin in its spirit body, or just the biological mind choosing to sin? Can the body of flesh make decisions? Or can only the spirit in it's spirit body make decisions? Who is in charge of your ra biological body?
D"The Spirit of Jesus Christ – who is Crist – who is God incarnate – did not die on the cross – it was released back into heaven R" Hmm?
Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed,
Jesus said unless a seed dies, it cannot make more seeds. SO the soul of Jesus died. 2Co 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
In our body is the body of Jesus.
11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. We die daily in Jesus, so we also live daily in Jesus. 12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you. This is the process of dying to self and the resurrection of Jesus spirit in us. 13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
THis process is by Faith
14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
Notice the process is always biological but spiritually understood.
But you deny Jesus can recreate His Spirit in us daily in the womb of GOD.
D"Nice sermon – but you are still you – Paul was still Paul Ex 23:29 I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee.
30 By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land.
Again the process is linked to the physical, the weeds on the land are similes of the aven propensities in our body, are removed gradually by Jesus. A renewed re-creation of us by Jesus daily in the womb of God.
D"Which view is yours? Cannot tell from this post! Double speak / Flip Flop R" sorry. When you enter into the woods to do something called "bara", do you invent a brand new matter to fill up according to you, or work with the matter at hand? Is this process not called engineering, creating and making use of pre-existing matter? Or do you expect brand new matter arising from baptism?
When Jesus spoke things into existence, was it out of nothing as people claim?
Hab 3:4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.
One Hebrew word, used once. Yes something came from His hand. Not nothing. Engineering is the creative process of using materials.
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man.... not created man, here.
Engineering is the creative process of using materials....
D"Proofs Your Salvation Is Eternally Secure R" Nice texts Dave, yes Salvation is Secure, He is Jesus, and He is divine, immortal and unmoved.
Proofs Your Salvation Is totally dependent upon your FAITH response:-
Eze 18:4 ...: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ho 14:4 ¶ I will heal their backsliding, Ho 14:8 ..From me is thy fruit found. Ho 14:9 Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; Mt 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Ps 31:23 O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.
Ps 119:86 All thy commandments are faithful:
Lu 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Lu 19:22 ..Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant.
1Co 1:9 God is faithful, Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught,
Heb 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering
Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people,
Mt 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 19, 2022 17:36:59 GMT -5
D"Answer – IT IS THE MEANING OF LIFE – it is why you were created – IT IS YOUR PURPOSE HERE – it is your assignment here – IT IS YOUR COMMISSION Jer 1:5 How can we witness to this world – if we are not here – DUH
Are you saying a spirit also includes a spirit body, DUH – a spirit is a spirit – whatever body it is – it is a unique independent individual Ghost are the spirits of dead Nephilim – once they die here their spirits remain here as the evil spirits of the ahl/OT – agl/NT - today Ghost are not spirits of dead people (Catholic Halloween) – they are evil spirits – of post flood Nephilim who died on earth – Jubilees chapter 10: 1-20 – I have quoted the passage for you many times Ghost are - whatever body they ae – are unique independent individuals
Angels are not Ghost – they are angels – they are spirit beings - whatever body they ae – are unique independent individuals
Man – is a spirit being – whatever body it is – it is a unique independent individual
This have nothing to do with physical creation – these spirit beings = the HOST of heaven All created Day 1
Archon are not Ghost (except for the evil spirits) – they are spirit beings made with some matter (earth) -- whatever body they ae – are unique independent individuals Gnostic – the First though of the First Archon was only of SELF (yester ra) Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a great fiery red dragon Gen 1:2 Now the earth was chaos and waste, darkness was on the surface of the deep,
Gen 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light!” and there was light. Rev 12:5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child,
Gen 1:4 God saw that the light was good. So God distinguished the light from the darkness. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down—... He was thrown down to/INTO the earth, and his angels (messengers) were thrown down with him.
Perfection – incorruptibility – function - eternal = spiritual reality = heavens Imperfection - corruption – dysfunction – temporary = physical reality = earth = 3D reality
Ancient Gnostics saw the physical world as the corruption So the level of the ra = cold - fire – hunger – pain – nature – this is a flawed world as Robert claims and the goal was to rise above this world – with spiritual help
Gnostic Christian = the rocks and plants – or even beast of the field - are not to blame for anything Is there a level of ra within nature – YES – it is called balance and is rediscovered by science on any scale you look – or at any time you look – Rom 1:19 + Psa 1-:2 = empirical evidence of an Intelligent designer
Most educated people today RECOGNISE – Intelligent Design – therefore an Intelligent Designer But instead of turning to the God of “CHURCH” Religion – they seek the God of Spinoza – or they settle for an alien intervention
The Goal of a Gnostic Christian – this Ministry – this Forum – IS TO WITNESS
There is Only One True God – and no matter how you look at the evidence – empirical scientific – genetic – chemistry – physics – Judaism – Christianity – pagan religions – Islam – Allah – Baal – all point to that One True Creation
Ancient Gnostics saw the physical world as the corruption So the level of the ra = nature / physicality
Gnostic Christian = the First Archon (The Beast of Revelation) was just the ‘first sentient’ made with some matter – the first intelligent thinking creature made with some matter The level of the ra it on the CONSCIOUS (sentient) level ----------------------------
Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born, I set you apart—I appointed you prophet to the nations.”
so when our spirit and spirit body chooses to enter a biological body we have entered into our commission to witness to the RA inside the biological body, so our free will inside our spirit mind can be developed? What a complicated arrangement this is? Nonsense – you own made up version
so when our spirit and spirit body chooses to enter a biological body we have entered into our commission to witness to the RA inside the biological body,- whole world – all of it – ll the nations – everyone -= any one – and to all the heaven that are watching
so our free will inside our spirit mind can be developed? Nonsense – it is not about you Mr selfish – it is all about witnessing God’s Glory it is about Him
Why couldn't God just have the spirit with it's spirit body be created with free will? What in the world is free will according to you? Obviously not congitive intelligence? Just the ability to choose GOD? Correct – the scripture definition of FREE WILL is the ability to choose God or not cognitive intelligence = brain = mind = biology = all perish at mortal death Correct – the scripture definition of FREE WILL is the ability to choose God or not – to choose to retune to God as a Prodigal Son – not because you have to – or are forced to – but because you want to – you choice to love God more than World Correct – the scripture definition of FREE WILL is the ability to choose God or not Gen 2:17 – Obey or die
Thank God – Praise God Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
If you are created as a spirit with a spirit body, arn't you already created to choose God? But no, you seem to think free will cannot exist unless BAD exists? I do not get your thinking. Free Will cannot exist with a choice – Correct The choice to disobey is bad for you – also correct
When you die in Christ in baptism, nothing dies, only the body dies full of ra. But if the decisions of life are made by the spirit and the spirit body, why does the body have to die, if it's not something of the cognitive mind? Your views make no sense.
So – you must deny that Paul (Miserable man that am I) was a Christian – will you take his writing out of your KJV?
D"YEP – the Spirit of God = the HS and our spirit R" so you do not die in baptism in Jesus death, so you have no second birth. Again – there is no second creation – YES – you can make a nice sermon out of it – but your sermon does not replace the truth
What exactly Dave is reborn in your view? It is an awakening – a remembering – it is an opening of your eyes to the truth that you have always known
The biological body with RA, might die, but it cannot make decisions anyway, so why does this have anything to do with anything, all your free will comes from the spirit in it's spirit body. Your body makes a lot of decisions for you – leads you to many decisions
RP"If we are baptised into Jesus death, than our old spirit must die in this baptism... D" His death is sufficient for all of us SO I see nothing about a second birth in your view , that dies with Jesus, so your whole view is false. According to my view, your old spirit must die, your old thinking must die, your old body must die, everything must die, and you rise a rewewed spirit, a renewed thinking brain and a renewed body of DNA.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
But in your view, you have only communion, but nothing dies. Once you are a believer – you try to follow the teachings – you learn more and more – so you can follow the teachings better and better – eventually you come to understand the teachings - better and better – precept upon precept, line upon line – until your belief = faith = confidence
What dies – your desire to do ra – you desire to replace the ra in your life with WITNESS Because now you know better -------------------
D"Your teaching that we can lose our salvation is anti-Christian teaching R" change subjects again?
Eze 18:24 Oh sorry that prophet you find so hard to accept as inspired. STOP YOUR NAME CALLING OR WE ARE FINISHED! Christian Prove to me that all the scholars who say Ezekiel doses not agree with Moses are wrong Veers by verse – IF Moses / The Torah is the standard - prove there is no error in Ezekiel
You keep repeating you absolute statement – is there is error this it is all error and must be discarded It is your argument against any document you wish to deny It is your argument ageing Enoch, Solomon, the Kabbalah, the Nag Hammadi, and the Dead Sea Scrolls Do you mean what you preach – or do you just talk?
Sorry – no new creation – no second creation – no second creator R" Well , well, than you neglect the entire scriptures about salvation than Dave. What about the second creation called salvation? NICE SERMON Robert – salvation is a Free Will act of obedience
Why do you deny this? Ps 51:10 Create in me Bara – fatten – enlarge What exactly Dave is reborn in your view? It is an awakening – a remembering – it is an opening of your eyes to the truth that you have always known
Joh 3:16 …—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. Joh 3:16 … that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Joh 3:16 … that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
R" What do you think "pisteou" or "amanuah" is? Just a belief or faith, ? Robert – I have posted your entire argument on this forum – Answer – belief and faith in the intangible all that is require for salvation Answer – it is a good thing to increase your belief / Faith – hold it with great conviction until the end Answer – belief / faith is not the same as the baptism of the Holy Spirit spoken of by Jesus Answer – baptism of the Holy Spirit is a TANGIBLE event - belief becomes fact (gnosis)
Is not faith a flow of power from Jesus? What is the purpose of this power? Is it not to recreate aspects in your daily walk with Jesus? It is not about you Mr selfish – it is about Him – witness His glory to all the world
Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. 12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. Create in me a right spirit.... who's spirit is this? Certainly not your old spirit... but the spirit of Jesus.
What exactly Dave is reborn in your view? It is an awakening – a remembering – it is an opening of your eyes to the truth that you have always known
Ps 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. H7665 – שָׁבַר - shâbar - A primitive root; to burst (literally or figuratively): - break (down, … broken ([-hearted]), bring to the birth, … Why a broken spirit Dave? Burt with guilt – shame (as the Rabbi says) – REPENTANCE - the 1st step in recovery (repentance) is to acknowledge that you are a sinner
H7665 Jeff Benner says a "bursting spirit" the SEED of Jesus breaks into your soul, flooding onto the floor of your body. The pressed home head. What exactly Dave is reborn in your view? It is an awakening – a remembering – it is an opening of your eyes to the truth that you have always known
Twice Scripture says go into the woods and with your own home head authority do something with the timber. Fill up the timber? No, engineer something from the timber? Yes Fits all the verses and thus is the better meaning in English. Who cares about the English in Hebrew is say to fatten - enlarge – expand That the woods and fashion it – alter it – change it improve it into something else
D"Our spirit is filled – filled up – refreshed with the truth R" you ignore more Scripture... Our soul must die in Jesus.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, YEP – his death was enough for us all
Yes we are "unique and independent individuals" you misquote me, I am glad to have discusssed deep issues with you, Everything that lives Dave lives inside the medium of GOD, administrated by the HS. You cannot deny that, nobody is immortal . Ony God is living. ANd only GOD imparts living to the creatures. – this is the pagan theology of pantheism
pantheism a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2022 16:31:35 GMT -5
D"Ghost are not spirits of dead people (Catholic Halloween) – they are evil spirits – of post flood Nephilim who died on earth – Jubilees chapter 10: 1-20 – I have quoted the passage for you many times Ghost are - whatever body they ae – are unique independent individuals R" Spirits of dead demigod archon Nephilim ? I see. That seek to invade other human body and repossess that human?
I take it the archons are spirit beings, not ghosts, and hence are still with us on earth. Some archons changed shape to sexually mate with women and create "Spirits of demigod archon Nephilim" who lived as giants for a while on earth and when dead they become ghost like spirits that enter human bodies to posses the human, and control them?
D"Is there a level of ra within nature – YES – it is called balance R" So Gnostic teachings teach this balance of RA and TOV is an intentional creation on God's part. We from other views to you, would call this creation a "flawed creation".
My understanding of GOD and His creation abilities, is GOD creates only TOV, and never RA UNLESS some sinning creature wishes to see his RA or SIN.
Dave on the other hand sees RA as natural and not a consequence of SIN. The snow and the rain, surely these are not sinful. Correct Dave they are not sinful, but they are the consequences of Adam's sinning, and GOD cursing His creation, because of Adam's sin.
D"Gnostic Christian = the First Archon (The Beast of Revelation) was just the ‘first sentient’ made with some matter – the first intelligent thinking creature made with some matter R" An intelligent thinking creature made with some matter, but this intelligence does not allow it to reason, to seek GOD, or to have a sense of sinning, hence seek forgiveness? You sure twist the definition of free will.
D"Correct – the scripture definition of FREE WILL is the ability to choose God or not R" so if you choose to not choose God, isn't this still free will?
If the Devil is a liar and a murderer, than free will must have chosen this ? But you deny this, but happily define free will as the ability to choose God's TOV, surely choosing RA is also free will?
But you negate Scripture and GOD by saying GOD creates animals with RA, that is nothing to do with free will.
This violates the whole concept of moral law, restricting moral conduct only to man. So lions that murder humans are not sinning according to you. Since they cannot choose TOV they can only know RA, hence are intentional creations of RA by GOD. I would disagree with your ideas here.
RP"What exactly Dave is reborn in your view? D" It is an awakening – a remembering – it is an opening of your eyes to the truth that you have always known R" I see, so nothing is technically reborn, you deny the second birth process, Nothing dies in Jesus, all you have is a re-awakening and a communion of your spirit to Jesus spirit. This is NOT how salvation works. You deny Scripture and you deny a second birth.
D"What dies – your desire to do ra – you desire to replace the ra in your life with WITNESS Because now you know better R" Oh I see, and this desire to kill RA and follow TOV comes from the same old spirit inside of you, while in communion with Jesus spirit? I pity your thinking, you do not understand amanuah and you deny the second birth. You deny the HS with a second reborn process of you, not just your thinking changes, but there are changes to your spirit and your body, everything must die and be reborn.
D"Ps 51:10 Create in me Bara – fatten – enlarge What exactly Dave is reborn in your view? It is an awakening – a remembering – it is an opening of your eyes to the truth that you have always known R" OH so now you ignore this Hebrew word "bara" it does not imply a rebirth process inside the womb of the HS when you seek Jesus? Only "awakening – a remembering – it is an opening of your eyes to the truth " is that all?
That's funny, that is not a simile nor a parallel to the first birth of the flesh? Something wrong with your view?
D"Answer – it is a good thing to increase your belief / Faith – hold it with great conviction until the end R" what exactly increases until the end Dave. DO tell me? Just more awakening? More eyes opened? Is that all?
What do you see faith is? Just more awakening more eyes opened to see Jesus? Is that all faith is?
Something wrong with your view?
You do not understand every time you use faith, it is a creative act by Jesus, but you cannot allow this because according to you Jesus cannot recreate, this Ps 51: thing is just an awakening process, not a re-creative process by Jesus, via the HS in us. QUestion: Can't Jesus do miracles on earth ? Yes or No? The water into wine for example.
Not allowed according to Dave. SO if Jesus can do creative acts, why is it so hard to fathom the creative acts of Jesus inside the womb of the HS when you seek Jesus who comes to save you? BUT for Dave, this Ps 51: thing is just an awakening process, not a re-creative process by Jesus, via the HS in us. I pity how you limit Jesus creative acts in you, every day you must sit in Jesus hoping to see more and more of His face, when I sit in Jesus spirit reaching for daily re-creative actions of His powers using the faith process. You sit daily in your old spirit in communion with Jesus spirit,
while I sit daily in Jesus spirit in communion with Jesus via the HS, seeking the creative act of His faith, when I ask daily for His Faith to recreate me daily, so my character becomes Jesus character. My spirit is His spirit. I have no spirit on my own. I am a servant of Him and a friend of Him. We have completely different views of the second born process. You have only an awakening with communion.
I have complete death of my old spirit and instead I grow in Jesus spirit living in me. This spirit of Jesus grows in me and I become a steward of His spirit growing in me. D"Burnt with guilt – shame (as the Rabbi says) – REPENTANCE - the 1st step in recovery (repentance) is to acknowledge that you are a sinner R" What you acknowledge your spirit makes mistakes and sins? Are you saying your spirit actually becomes a sinner thus requires repentance? If this is so, than by definition your spirit must die in the grave with Christ, so you rise with a brand new spirit of Jesus, while your old spirit and it's shame is dead in the grave. You deny this death process of the spirit, only a returning to God, and a reawakening with communion. But no death of the spirit and its shame and its sin before Jesus, with Jesus in the grave. You might say Jesus died for me, so I do not have to die? Yes, but why does Scrpture say upon baptism, you enter dying into Jesus death? You must also die, and rise with Jesus, your old body and your spirit dies and remains in the grave. Otherwise you have denied the second birth process.
D"It is an awakening – a remembering – it is an opening of your eyes to the truth that you have always known R"you have denied the second birth process.
You deny the creative Ps 51:10 - 11 bara process of Jesus in you You deny the HS re-creative daily redevelopment of you You deny the death of SELF and of your SPIRIT in the grave with Jesus You do not have a second birth process, only a reawakening and a communion, but nothing dies.
OH, your desire to do RA dies. While your old spirit lives as before. This is not what death means Dave.
D"Who cares about the English in Hebrew is say to fatten - enlarge – expand That the woods and fashion it – alter it – change it improve it into something else R" Who cares? Dave doesn't care? Suddenly bara does not mean re-engineer, only fill and expand what is already in you, your old spirit. You ignore the Ps 51:10-11 re-creative process of Jesus via the womb of the HS. D"YEP – his death was enough for us all R" You deny the process and meaning of death. Sure Jesus died, but you have to die in Jesus and live under His spirit, in fact that is the only way you can be saved, you have to become a clone of Jesus, because only Jesus is allowed to live, while He died as a sinner, he did not sin, so we sinners live in Jesus, so our living is dependent upon us daily dying in Jesus also. So what dies daily in Jesus? Our old habits, our old spirit and our old body, everything has to die. Ps 2:12 Kiss the Son (BR) , lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
BR "home head" SEED, the home head is a simile of the Jesus HEAD, full of seed that dies so can produce many seeds. We are one of those little seeds of Jesus, that the HOME Head died to become.
This verse along with Gen 1:1 explain why Jesus died to become many seeds. A HEAD of WHEAT is a simile of the HOME HEAD, the body or Jesus broken so we take up the seed of Jesus and become a little Jesus on earth. You deny this process of death, and living at the same time.
D"this is the pagan theology of pantheism
pantheism a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God. R" Hmm? Twisting Dave. SO because everything living is alive because of the power of GOD, so all matter is just a manifestation of GOD? SO because a programmer creates a program with free will to do and act within boundaries of the program, within its universe, the game, everybody in the game is just a manifestation of the programmer? I don't think so.
Please write your discussion of pantheism Dave, I do not follow your brevity.
Shalom
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2022 16:49:43 GMT -5
I quote pantheism from SDA sources
"Pantheism lies at the heart of much of paganism. In many foreign countries today, the natives bow down and worship the god-spirit found everywhere, but, to the thinking, especially in certain trees, rocks, or animals. They worship the sun, moon, stars, and departed ancestors because of this notion that divinity is inherent in created matter.
It was the written and verbal warnings of Ellen White that kept our denomination from buying Dr. Kellogg's package of "Christian pantheism." Reading through our copy of "The Living Temple," we find that it contains most beautiful sentiments. But the prophet of God denounced that book as dangerous in the extreme because of the God-in-you-and-everything-else concept sprinkled through it.
When Dr. Kellogg discovered that Ellen White was opposed to the teachings in his book, "Living Temple," he went ahead and published it anyway. But when he then found that she was successful in keeping Seventh-day Adventists from buying and selling it for him, and that as a consequence his popularity rating in the denomination was rapidly falling, he tried issuing modified editions. But when her opposition to even revised editions of it kept church members from purchasing and reselling "Living Temple,' then Dr. Kellogg gave up trying to win Adventism over pantheism,-and he declared that there was no pantheism in that book, and that he had never taught or believed such a notion. But his own written statements teach otherwise.
"Gravitation acts instantaneously throughout all space. By this mysterious force of gravitation the whole universe is held together in a bond of unity .. We have here the evidence of a universal presence, an intelligent presence, an all-wise presence, an all-powerful presence, a presence by the aid of which every atom of the universe is kept in touch with every other atom. This force that holds all things together, that is everywhere present, that thrills throughout the whole universe, that acts instantaneously through boundless space, can be nothing else than God Himself. What a wonderful thought that this same God is in us and in everything! "General Conference Bulletin, February 12, 1897, 83."
I am not saying this idea Dave. That GOD evades into all things including matter, in order to keep matter functional. Notice the shift in the sentence above
"This force that holds all things together" is equated to
"can be nothing else than God Himself"
This idea is wrong.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Jan 21, 2022 19:07:15 GMT -5
D"Ghost are not spirits of dead people (Catholic Halloween) – they are evil spirits – of post flood Nephilim who died on earth – Jubilees chapter 10: 1-20 – I have quoted the passage for you many times Ghost are - whatever body they ae – are unique independent individuals R" Spirits of dead demigod archon Nephilim ?Jubilees 10 says that when the post flood Neplilim dies their spirits remain her on earth as evil spirit – correct – That is what the Scripture of the Book of Jubilees says – 100% Coptic Christian + 100% Jewish I see. That seek to invade other human body and repossess that human?So why do you have to add your ass – no one said this except you Of course possession happens – is it these specific spirits – or are they just other archon? Unknown I take it the archons are spirit beings, not ghosts, and hence are still with us on earth.YES – “There is invisible archon all around – just outside our field of view are entities that are anything but human manipulating this world from the outside for eons” – David IkeThese archon are made with SOME matter – they are not exactly angelic and not totally mortal Some archons changed shape to sexually mate with women and create YES – shapeshifting – do they change shape or do they just implant an image in your head Hypnosis – illusion - trickery " demigod archon Nephilim" who lived as giants for a while on earth YES – demi-god – Nephilim Giants – in Greek means child of earth – Cronos and mother earth = children of earth = giants Giants – some were tall – very tall – Enoch says 3000 ells (whatever that is) Some claim this to be 2 Km who lived as giants for a while on earthYES – they dominated humanity before the flood – only Noah was genetically pure Enoch – they gave man heavenly knowledge = advanced technology – Atlantis that sank beneath the waves All stories of Middle Earth comes from the Memoirs of Noah – dragons – dinos – wizards – trolls and troglodytes – chimeras and when dead they become ghost like spirits Jubilees 10 says – Post flood Nephilim were still here bothering Noah’s sons How did they survive the flood waters Giants – some were tall – very tall – Enoch says 3000 ells (whatever that is) Some claim this to be 2 Km 2 Jewish legends –(1) Hamm hid Og in a shadow within the ark (2) Og hug on the outside of the Ark and Hamm fed him through a knot hole that enter human bodies to posses the human, and control them? So why do you have to add your ass – no one said this except youOf course possession happens – is it these specific spirits – or are they just other archon? Unknown D"Is there a level of ra within nature – YES – it is called balance R" So Gnostic teachings teach this balance of RA and TOV is an intentional creation on God's part. Gnostics say this – Jews say this – Christians say this – anyone buying into Intelligent Design says thisGen 1:31 So God saw everything that He made, and behold it was very good. So there was evening and there was morning—the sixth day. This includes the chôshek of Gen 1:2 the Beast of Revelation – the serpent race that we call devils and satanas This includes the commandment to be fruitful and multiply Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created—in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities (Archon). All was created through Him and for Him.D"Gnostic Christian = the First Archon (The Beast of Revelation) was just the ‘first sentient’ made with some matter – the first intelligent thinking creature made with some matter R" An intelligent thinking creature made with some matter, but this intelligence does not allow it to reason, to seek GOD, or to have a sense of sinning, hence seek forgiveness? You sure twist the definition of free will. Intelligence is a function of the brain – cows were created as cows – they are just cows – they have a level of intelligenceD"Correct – the scripture definition of FREE WILL is the ability to choose God or not R" so if you choose to not choose God, isn't this still free will? cows were created as cows – they are just cows – they have a level of intelligence RP"What exactly Dave is reborn in your view? D" It is an awakening – a remembering – it is an opening of your eyes to the truth that you have always known R" I see, so nothing is technically reborn, you deny the second birth process, You argue against what you do not understand – I can only pray that someday you do understand – but it first requires faith – not doubtQuestion: Can't Jesus do miracles on earth ? Yes or No? The water into wine for example. Not allowed according to Dave. WOW MR Academic Honesty – you have my attentionWe have completely different views of the second born process. You have only an awakening with communion. I have complete death of my old spirit and instead I grow in Jesus spirit living in me. This spirit of Jesus grows in me and I become a steward of His spirit growing in me. You deny – John 3:16 – and now you claim to be Jesus You deny this death process of the spirit, only a returning to God, and a reawakening with communion. But no death of the spirit and its shame and its sin before Jesus, with Jesus in the grave. Death of Spirit = the Second Death – at the Lake of FireD"this is the pagan theology of pantheism pantheism a doctrine which identifies God with the universe, or regards the universe as a manifestation of God. R" Hmm? Twisting Dave. SO because everything living is alive because of the power of GOD, so all matter is just a manifestation of GOD? Please write your discussion of pantheism Dave, I do not follow your brevity.Most 9th graders grasp the dictionary R" Can't you quote me correctly. The word ruwach does not mean HS literally for all verses, but the word "medium" for all verses, "wind" is a medium. HS means "holy medium" a functional descriptor of the Shadday allowing the Father's flow into a RA world. Everything that lives Dave lives inside the medium of GOD, administrated by the HS. regards the universe as a manifestation of GodEverything that lives is just the HS – agreed at the sub-atomic level – the ether /matrix But each and every spirit life form was created unique and independent Every cow was created by God to be a cow Every angel was created to be an angel Every archon was created to be an archon Only you teach evolution where creatures can change their assigned roles within creation against God’s Will and the change God’s Plan
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Post by Dave on Jan 22, 2022 2:01:33 GMT -5
I have complete death of my old spirit and instead I grow in Jesus spirit living in me. This spirit of Jesus grows in me and I become a steward of His spirit growing in me. You deny – John 3:16 – and now you claim to be Jesus You deny this death process of the spirit, only a returning to God, and a reawakening with communion.
Joh 3:16 (TLV) “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:16 (YLT) for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
Please tell me what this verse means to you – this is not about mortal death – death of biology (1) the wages of sin = biological death since Eve (2) all men have sinned (3) except Enoch/Elijah and the Rapture all men will die a mortal death
THEREFORE – this verse is not about biology and mortality This verse is speaking of the Second Death – at the Lake of Fire For all who believe – salvation from the Lake of Fire – the Second Death
You deny this death process of the spirit, only a returning to God, and a reawakening with communion. Correct – upon mortal death – death of biology - - your spirit is released from your body – poured out – set free – and it returns to God for judgment
Mat 27:50 (YLT) And Jesus having again cried with a great voice, yielded the spirit; Mat 27:50 (TLV) And Yeshua cried out again with a loud voice and gave up His spirit. Mat 27:50 (KJV)Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Jesus the Son of Man – 100% biology – died upon the cross Christ the Son of God – returned to the heavens
Ecc 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecc 12:7 (TLV) Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ecc 12:7 (YLT) And the dust returneth to the earth as it was, And the spirit returneth to God who gave it.
Spirit is not a thing of biology – when our biology dies – our spirit is released, yielded up, given up and it returns to God
Hebrew satan – the heavenly prosecutor Zec 3:1-10 – Joshua was judged – the prosecutor was there to point out all of Joshua’s sin BUT – God told the prosecutor to stand down – charges dismissed – Divine Pardon
Asclepius 21-29 - The Nag Hammadi Library Now the body dies when it is not able to support the man. And this is death: the dissolution of the body and the destruction of the sensation of the body. And it is not necessary to be afraid of this, nor because of this, but because of what is not known, and is disbelieved (is one afraid)."
"But what is not known, or is disbelieved?" "Listen, Asclepius! There is a great demon. The great God has appointed him to be overseer or judge over the souls of men. And God has placed him in the middle of the air, between earth and heaven. Now when the soul comes forth from (the) body, it is necessary that it meet this daimon. Immediately, he (the daimon) will surround this one (masc.), and he will examine him in regard to the character that he has developed in his life. And if he finds that he piously performed all of his actions for which he came into the world, this (daimon) will allow him ... (1 line missing) ... turn him [...]. But if he sees [...] in this one [...] he brought his life into evil deeds, he grasps him, as he flees upward, and throws him down, so that he is suspended between heaven and earth, and is punished with a great punishment. And he will be deprived of his hope, and will be in great pain.
But no death of the spirit and its shame and its sin before Jesus, NOPE – no death of spirit – either you die in Christ with a Divine Pardon Or you enter Proportional Punishment – Deeds, Works, Fruit – each man according to his own
The Jewish version = we enter heaven embarrassed for who we are – our shame we must bear The Jewish version = we enter heaven with stained clothing – it must be washed clean – purified The Jewish version = we enter heave all stinky with sin – but in heaven the stink wears off
The Psychology of Understanding - By David Freed 06/20/2006 There is a grave stone, in Northern Indiana, with the most fascinating verse engraved upon the front.
It simply says:As you are, I once was - and as I am, you soon will be.
Short, simple, straight to the point and perhaps the most profound revelation of mortality. We are all going to die sooner or later. So then, the next most important question becomes - Then what? - is there something more? The question for me is not whether there is a God and an afterlife! The question, for me as a man, is if there is a God and an afterlife, and I do eventually meet my maker; will I be able to look Him straight in the eye and shake His hand, or will I be ashamed and embarrassed for who I really am?
Death of Spirit = the Second Death – at the Lake of Fire All men / all spirit is totally alive and aware until the Second Death – the Death of Spirit
Your teaching of grave and resurrection just to be cast in the Lake of Fire is UNFAIR Mother Teresa and a repented Hitler reap the same reward in your view Sleep and then resurrected for the final judgement – just to be killed yet again
whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
Your teaching violate the very word of God – no spiritual death – eternal life There is no room in Judeo-Christian theology for your – multiple deaths of the spirit
You deny this death process of the spirit, only a returning to God, and a reawakening with communion.
(google) What does it mean to commune with? to communicate with someone or something in a very personal or spiritual way.
(google) Can commune be used as a verb? verb (used without object), com·muned, com·mun·ing. to converse or talk together, usually with profound intensity, intimacy, etc.; interchange thoughts or feelings. to be in intimate communication or rapport: to commune with nature.
(google) What does it mean to commune with nature? 1 to talk or converse intimately. 2 to experience strong emotion or spiritual feelings (for) to commune with nature. n. 3 intimate conversation; exchange of thoughts; communion.
(google) What does it mean to commune with God? Commune means to focus on God, converse, talk, often with profound intensity, intimate communication or rapport as sharing your heart and mind with God in prayer: an interchange of ideas or sentiments, derived from French "comun" meaning - common, to share.
What does google leave out? intimate communication or rapport as sharing your heart and mind with God in prayer: an interchange This is a two way communication – it takes 2 to interchange – it take 2 to have a rapport - exchange of thoughts; - to communicate with someone or something in a very personal or spiritual way.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God;
God’s Spirit – the Holy Spirit – who is Christ (Trinity) – the Comforter testifies with OUR SPIRIT Spirit to spirit
When this happens – you will know and tell everyone you know – you might cry – you might laugh and giggle – you might speak in tongues – it will burst out of you like a fountain
You argue against that you do not understand – because religion has taught you to doubt and deny
Communion – The Gospel of Philip - The Nag Hammadi Library Some are afraid lest they rise naked. Because of this they wish to rise in the flesh, and they do not know that it is those who wear the flesh who are naked. It is those who [...] to unclothe themselves who are not naked. "Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Co 15:50). What is this which will not inherit? This which is on us. But what is this, too, which will inherit? It is that which belongs to Jesus and his blood. Because of this he said "He who shall not eat my flesh and drink my blood has not life in him" (Jn 6:53). What is it? His flesh is the word, and his blood is the Holy Spirit. He who has received these has food and he has drink and clothing.
This is speaking to a higher level than just - Crackers and grape juice – enliven bread and wine – children gold fish crackers and grape soda – cheez-its and grape kool-aide – French Fries and a coke - blah blah blah
The goal is not to be Elisha's servant The goal is to become an Elisha
The goal is not to be a beliver and show up in church sometimes The goal is to WITNESS GOD's GLORY to all the nation - every one The goal is to be a disciple - teach instead of listen
BUT - there is a risk
Jas 3:1 (TLV)Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers and sisters, since you know that we will receive a stricter judgment.
Jas 3:1 (KJV)My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
Mat 5:17 (KJV) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: ...
I am 100% dead serious about everything I say and teach - this is not a game
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Post by Richard on Jan 22, 2022 13:17:29 GMT -5
John 3:16 This verse is speaking of the Second Death – at the Lake of Fire For all who believe – salvation from the Lake of Fire – the Second Death Agree
Correct – upon mortal death – death of biology - - your spirit is released from your body – poured out – set free – and it returns to God for judgment Agree
Jesus the Son of Man – 100% biology – died upon the cross Christ the Son of God – returned to the heavens Agree
Your teaching of grave and resurrection just to be cast in the Lake of Fire is UNFAIR You are incorrect. First Fruits reign with God for 1000 years. Those of the First Resurrection also reign for 1000 years. Then the abyss is opened for a period of five months.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. The Defeat of Satan Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive
Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven fallen unto the earth: and there was given to him the key of the pit of the abyss. Rev 9:2 And he opened the pit of the abyss; and there went up a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. Rev 9:3 And out of the smoke came forth locusts upon the earth; and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. Rev 9:4 And it was said unto them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only such men as have not the seal of God on their foreheads. Rev 9:5 And it was given them that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when it striketh a man.
First Fruits receive the Divine Pardon, as you say, Salvation through Jesus Christ Death of flesh, spirit returns to God,
First Resurrection reign with God for 1000 years. They have been released form wherever they were. They have been relocated from wherever they were. Since they reign with God, they must have been cleansed, purified.
Those who miss that First Resurrection Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.
Communion – The Gospel of Philip - The Nag Hammadi Library I understand the point. It is a demanding call isn’t it?
Asclepius 21-29 - The Nag Hammadi Library No comment
This is speaking to a higher level than just - Crackers and grape juice Agree, however, do not make it sound as if the Comforter is not available to everyone, believer or Born Again. This is such an important issue within a Christian’s life. When we are asked to council, this is the silly metaphor we use to explain the difference.
Whisper or a Bolt of Lightning event All who accept Jesus Christ into their heart are available to the Comforter. It is there in the background whispering. However, most Christians babel on and pray about things they want. Scripture tells us not to ask for things we want, because God already knows what we really need.
I have heard good hearted Christians confess; They discussed it with God, considered the pros and cons, and God led them to ----- All this person has done is waste their prayer time rationalizing, justifying, reasoning (as Robert suggest).
It is exactly this type of pseudo-spiritual reasoning that has given us all the many different denomination with all their different doctrines. People delude themselves that God gave them permission to do what they wanted to do all along.
We try to help our embers to shut up and listen. Prayer is a two way communication. People need to shut up and listen what is pressed upon their heart. Not their head. The more time you spend with the spirit, in the spirit, the spirit is awakened, rejuvenated, energized.
We can only pray for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, if it happens make the most of it, enjoy it, relish it, share it. If it doesn’t happen, keep praying, keep asking.
ASK, but this does not mean ‘give me’ it means ‘use me’
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2022 15:59:32 GMT -5
OK I read respectfully Dave's post, at least two ? and Richard's post. I have nothing further to remark.
Shalom
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