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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 16:29:23 GMT -5
RP" Well you have a problem, can sin exist or not, or does God continue to hold your hand while you are sinning? Please explain your view. D"You teach if God leaves you would die – now you question how God can be there where your alive So I have no idea how to satisfy you – you deny that man is an independent individual – you deny that man is spirit – so you present contradictory statements that just harm your credibility R" Are you afraid to answer your view? Can't your view stand scrutiny?
Sure the medium exists while you are sinning, and hence GOD allows his powers to keep you alive. Sure the sinner is sinning, but according to the physics of shadows, light rays and umbra shadows, such sinning requires little of God's power flowing into your life, that the darkness of SIN appears in your life. I am not talking about an absolute lack of GOD in your life, O boy, you are nit picking yet again, otherwise you as a sinner would cease to exist. My point is trying to get you to see how SIN exists in the presence of a holy God.
And judging by your lack of comments about your view, you have not considered these things, nor do you have a SIN problem with you that affects God in any way.
DP"If you doctrine is correct – then there is no satan to bother mankind – he/they are locked away RP" Not all Opposers of God are locked away on the earth, many are, some are not D" Show me you data – show me your scripture - or are you making up stuff to justify your incorrect answers R" Re 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered,
Once third of the cherubims sinned along with the chief Opposer, that is a huge number, some 100 thousand million, I suspect. Ge 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth
Walter Veith suggests this word replenish hints at GHod's purpose to allow humans to breed up numbers to replace all the fallen cherbims who sinned, God wants to save humans, to replace the fallen cherubs.
Mr 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Obviously from this verse, not all cherubims are locked away on earth. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Some cherubims are reserved and locked away for that great day of judgement.
Now I use the Hebrew words for messengers, and shedim, to suggest these are cherubims who sinned.
RP" Please explain your view, for you do NOT have a grand SIN problem as my view does D" The sin problem is man’s – it began with Eve – stop trying to pass the blame to another R" Yep I was right. You do not have a grand SIN problem, GOD is resolving, with both cherubims and with humans.
Mr 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Why would a cherubim possessing a human speak such a thing? "that thou torment me not" Why? God is opossing these creatures because these creatures are opposing GOD. Why? Because these creatures are sinning inside the possessed man, causing the man to also sin. Mr 5:8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
Why is the creature addressed as an unclean ruwach? A term meaning medium? Because the creature possessing the man is not phsycially inside the man, but as a medium inside the man. There are two media here with the term medium (ruwach) one media is the humans mind, a creature created by God, and the other media is the mind of the sinning cherub, also a creature created by God. The medium reference is the correct way to describe how the cherub is controlling the human, and thus there is a flow of sinning power from the cherub into the human, we term this idea shedim possession. Mr 5:12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
Interesting here the RA RUWACH is termed as shedim here, the OT term for devil. Why do they request entering pigs? Because pigs are unclean, hence the shedim are sinful and hence choose to enter sinful creatures, is proof the shedim are sinful too. Not that pigs per se' are sinful, we humans are the only creatures, apart from cherubs who can sin, where our sinning is judged against us.
D"stop trying to pass the blame to another R" Why than do other creatures empower sin, if only humans are to blame for sin?
1Ki 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
Here all the cherubims are allowed back into heaven, both the good ones and the sinning ones, hence the idea of the right and left hand of God with the host of heaven, all creatures nearest God as an army.
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Same idea here, right hand and left hand, with devil and his shedim, prepared for everlasting fire. But in 1 kings we have a scene of the host, not thrown into prison on earth, so they are allowed to travel from earth to heaven. 1Ki 22:20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, ...?
God is asking WHO will help Ahab empowered with SIN, to continue SINNING?
D"stop trying to pass the blame to another R" See how silly your answer is, God is asking the question to the host of heaven, to previous cherubs who have also sinned to help humans to sin more, because the human Ahab wishes to sin more.
1Ki 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
Notice the ruwach is termed here for the cherub. Why ? Because the cherub cannot enter into the human, only a MEDIUM can, which is controlled by God and sustained by God. 1Ki 22:22 ...I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.
In other words the cherubim that also was sinning, asks to be the RA Medium who empowers Ahab to SIN further. You say the RA MEDIUM that was set up was set up by God intentionally so a cherub who is good, is doing the service of the Lord. It can seem that way. But another view, is the RA Medium was set up by GOD, so the media creature can do what the media wish to do independently of GOD, God only sets up the RA Medium, so the system can be established.
After all if GOD did not establish a system for sinning, than the sinner who sins could not sin, and would immediately cease to exist. Hence a RA MEDIUM established by God is the only way, SIN and the SINNER can sin in the presence of a holy GOD. D" The sin problem is man’s – it began with Eve – stop trying to pass the blame to another R" Therefore what you have written here is totally wrong. SINNING began in heaven with cherubims closest to God, and the Medium was established so these SINNERS can exist and not perish. Humans are not the first to have sinned.
1Kings 22:22 proves that. Mr 5:12 proves that. You are way off track Dave.
The war originally was in heaven. Rev 12, again you are way off track.
Some cherub messengers originally left there first estate, as Jude says. You are off track Dave.
DP"The Book of Job does not support your idea that your satan opposes God – or is working against God RP" Really? Why did the OPPOSER ask God to remove His hedge of protection around Job. What does a hedge do ? A hedge OPPOSERS the creatures who wish to enter, doesn't it? D" Sound like a request to me – why does your satan have to ask God permission? R" Yes the Opposer has to ask permission. How else can one sin against another, unless GOD grants that wicked agent permission? Duh, the hedge tells you. A hedge cannot allow wicked creatures to enter, unless the hedge is broken in the hedges power. The attacking opposers, ask God to weak his power of protection. Everything is controlled and administrated by GOD, including the breath of living in these sinning cherubims who are opposing God, so yes of course, one has to ask of GOD. God does not willy nilly had over somebody God is saving to the opposers of salvation willy nilly to influence that saved person to sin yet again. God is strong and loving and his powers empower the saved person to become sinless. But the opposers ask God for one more try, maybe they can get the saved person to sin one more time. Prosecutors do not make saved persons into transgressing persons, and than prosecute them from those transgressions. That is a conflict of interest, not allowed in the holy courts of God., No the opposers are sinful, wicked and agents for the RA RUWACH, ie they are media of SIN. The medium is not sinful, no. The agents of the media are the ones who sin.
D"Why does you satan obey God’s wishes – but you say your satan opposes God R" All things are administrated by GOD, including the RA RUWACH, the medium. But the medium does not SIN. It is the media behind the medium that wishes to sin, thus causing the other media to sin.
If there is no sense of respect here the media (GOD) and the other media (cherub) who wish to cause the humans (object media) to SIN, have to ask permission, because GOD (media for salvation) is opposing the media for sinning. And hence the media for sinning is opposing God, who is the media for salvation. Now what you are asking is a hard answer to something I doubt you will understand.
I quote from our prophet
The Acts of the Apostles, p. 52.1 (Ellen Gould White)
… , but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden …
There is in scripture themes too difficult to fathom to humans, and one of these is the "ra ruwach" the idea of the "Evil medium" which is administrate, by the HS as a media. We have to consider who the media of RA, is, and this is NOT GOD, but the opposer of GOD who wishes to sin. The term is called satan, the opposer of God, who wishes to promote the concept of sinning against God. The Father of lies and a murderer from the beginning, we are told of the shedim functions of the serpent in the garden.
How many people understand mediums, media and the administration of the "RA Rwuach" for SIN?
It was not a good idea in Mrs White's time to explain this to the early church people, so she told them to leave the topic alone.
D"You say you satan is sin – but you refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey God R" You think when God asked from the right and left hand, one medium volunteered to do RA. I see this as GOD asking for the SIN of Ahab to develop more SINNING, who will do this for Ahab?
God is not mocked, a man sows that he reaps. If you wish to sin more, than God allows the agents of sin to empower you more. If you wish to sin more deeply, GOD allows the agents of deeper sinning, to empower you into deeper sinning. I see this as man reaping what he is sowing, and GOD administrating the consequences of sin. Not as you say an agent of sin volunteering to empower sin in humans.
DP"Your UMBRA SHADOW idea teaches there is a location where there is no God – and God cannot enter RP" Hmm? I wouldn't say, God cannot enter, but God is forced to obey the sinners free will, as the sinner blocks most of the light from God entering into his life. D" 1- I looked it up in the dictionary The umbra (Latin for "shadow") is the innermost and darkest part of a shadow, where the light source is completely blocked by the occluding body. R" Your relying on humans again. If the umbra shadow was totally without light, it would be a black hole, so alas your idea is wrong. Not all light is blocked by the sinner wishing to sin. some light (<1 %) does enter.
The medium is present when the sinner sins, hence GOD is present despite the sinner sinning, so again it is not correct to say God is not there. God went to hell and back again, so God is powerful enough to go anywhere. What we are seeing here is the sinner sinning a umbra shadow of death, and God is the administration of this affect, so the sinner sees his sin. And it's not a black hole, otherwise the sinner who sinned would cease to exist.
D"2- you teach your satan can block God out– you teach man can block God out R" from my above answer, I do not teach this idea at all. Try to focus on what I say correctly.
D"IT IS NOT A CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH TEACHING – if anything it is satanic – again your satan stronger R" Again you are wrong about my view. Satan is not stronger. The RA MEDIUM is established by GOD, the Agent of SIN (the opposer) cannot be stronger than the medium that allows the agent of sin to exist. Not so. You are wrong about me and my views. A creature can never be stronger than it's creator. Wrong idea Dave. Stop promoting wrong ideas about me, and focus on what my view really is. -----------
DP"and all together you have the SDA Controversy with two gods and two kings RP" Well you have two gods and two kings also "Your Beast, serpent race and Satanas" is ONE KING and ONE chief god (false god/demigod) still a "god" and you also have GOD. D" Explain how your view is not a Controversy, but mine is? R" Both have elohiym powers Dave, both seek to dominate the other elohiym power, that is a Controversy
D" 1- The Beast is not my King and I would never ever say that he is worthy of the king title R" Really? Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out
Why than does Jesus term the beast, a prince (sar) a king, a ruler, than?
D" 2- The Beast is not ONE – it is a race of biological beings R" God speaks of the origins of the Beast than later is also many. SIN began first with ONE, and than spread to MANY. Ezekiel speaks of the closest cherub to GOD SINNED first against GOD. Than influenced 1/3 of other cherubs to SIN also, so yes the beast is a race of biological beings who sin. These biological cherubs ask permission to enter the MEDIUM, God has established, so they become agents or media for SIN, and thus influence the humans to sin. These cherubims have what seems additional functions to humans. They appear ghostly, as images in a medium seem that way. They appear to walk through walls, as a mirage which is also an image, can appear to enter hundreds of miles from where it is and than disappear. Mediums do strange affects, but the media, the personal agent of SIN, is a biological cherub similar to humans.
Just like Moses on the mountain, Moses lived 40 days without water or food. Philip hyperspaced from one location to another after baptizing enuch. Jesus walked right through walls and showed Thomas scars on his biological skin, the same skin Jesus died with to save sinners. So some functions seem strange to us humans.
D" 3- THEY are out real struggle – for they are the world and the worldly around us R" Yes they have a kingdom, the world, and fight to preserve their kindgom, the world.
Joh 12:31 ...now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
D" 4- the call is to be not of this world but long for the next R" That is you view. My view is to be saved from the opposers who promote sin as a desirable thing.
D" 5- the beast was not created to serve and praise God then decide to oppose God - no evolution in heaven - and no evolution on the ground R" Free will Dave. The cherubims who were sinless decided to sin of their own free will, and live a life on earth without many of God rules. Is it possible to live in sin and be without God and his rules? No, so why do they pretend to live without God? Evolution is merely living with God and without God, so they pretend to not support God but still live under his powers of living. If the sinner wanted to sin wholly on his own, than he would cease to exist. SO even the sinning agent has to sin under God's continual presence. Therefore there is no other choice, to live without rules of love. Evolution in it's truest sense cannot exist.
But a spoiling of God's love, and living in God's rules, pretending to be a god of your own destination, as evolution along these lines pretends to claim, does exist. It is a false claim, and exists only in the minds of the Sinner. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 17, 2021 19:01:05 GMT -5
RP" Well you have a problem, can sin exist or not, or does God continue to hold your hand while you are sinning? Please explain your view. Of course sin exist DUH R" Are you afraid to answer your view? Can't your view stand scrutiny? I will say it only one more time for you – God is omnipotent and omnipresent Why do you doubt scripture The very fact that you refuse to teach that God is omnipresent or omnipotenet is anti-Christian
DP"If you doctrine is correct – then there is no satan to bother mankind – he/they are locked away RP" Not all Opposers of God are locked away on the earth, many are, some are not D" Show me you data – show me your scripture - or are you making up stuff to justify your incorrect answers R" Re 12:4 Please answer the question – where is your verse that says some do not get locked up in chains
Walter Veith suggests this word replenish hints at GHod's purpose to allow humans to breed up numbers to replace all the fallen cherbims who sinned, God wants to save humans, to replace the fallen cherubs. What a bunch of man-made doctrine - where is you rsdata – where is your scripture Or does your Walter Veith supersede scripture for the SDA?
Mr 5:9 Obviously from this verse, not all cherubims are locked away on earth. Now you teach that not all of your fallen angels are sinners So are you fallen angels fallen because they sinned? Or are some of your fallen angels sinless and do not require chains or prison Your doctrine is very fexible - you speak in absolutes and refuse to address all your exceptions
RP" Please explain your view, for you do NOT have a grand SIN problem as my view does D" The sin problem is man’s – it began with Eve – stop trying to pass the blame to another R" Yep I was right. You do not have a grand SIN problem, GOD is resolving, with both cherubims and with humans. Why do you need to blame another – for your actions? – There are no excuses Why do you deny scripture – Rome 5:12 – is scripture wrong Just how much scripture do you have to deny Robert?
Mr 5:7 Mr 5:8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. Why is the creature addressed as an unclean ruwach You teach that the fallen angels are fallen because they sinned Scripture says the sinning messengers are held in jail So are your fallen angels sinners or not?
Mr 5:12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. So why are your fallen angels not in chains in prison – is Peter and Jude wrong? Or are not all fallen angels - sinning angels – your teaching – why doesn’t it make sense
1Ki 22:22 ...I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. 1Kings 22:22 proves that. Mr 5:12 proves that. You are way off track Dave. Answer why it is a sin to obey the Lord I have waited for this answer for more than 2 years – do yo have an answer or not
D"Why does you satan obey God’s wishes – but you say your satan opposes God R" All things are administrated by GOD, including the RA RUWACH So your God controls your satan like a puppet – so how does your satan oppose his own master Or why is it as sin to obey God – still waiting for this answer
D"You say you satan is sin – but you refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey God R" You think when God asked from the right and left hand, one medium volunteered to do RA. OK – why is it a sin to volunteer to obey God
D" 1- I looked it up in the dictionary R" Your relying on humans again. If you cannot make a point without redefining all the vocabulary – then you have no point Is it your desire that no one can understand you – you just want to confuse others and cast doubt
D"2- you teach your satan can block God out– you teach man can block God out R" from my above answer, I do not teach this idea at all. Try to focus on what I say correctly. As soon as you choose the word Umbra Shadow you teach there is something that can block God presence / access
D"IT IS NOT A CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH TEACHING – if anything it is satanic – again your satan stronger R" Again you are wrong about my view. Satan is not stronger. Your satan can block God presence – your satan can stop God from entering a location You say you God tried to make a tov world – but was not able because your satan change everything All the plants and animals changed – there is none of Gods tov world left – you say it is fallen
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D" 1- The Beast is not my King and I would never ever say that he is worthy of the king title R" Really? Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out
Why than does Jesus term the beast, a prince (sar) a king, a ruler, than? YES Robert – the Beast is the sar of this world – DUH Ceasar is not my King – Scott Morrison is not my King – Vadamire Putin is not my king – Donald trump was not my king – and now Joe Bidden is not my king
The only King I have is in heaven
Mat 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick by one and look down on the other. You cannot serve God and money.”
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2021 2:50:55 GMT -5
Greetings Dave, your answers are single line mocks, nothing I can see worthy of comments further.
D"So why are your fallen angels not in chains in prison – is Peter and Jude wrong?
Ec 4:14 For out of prison he cometh to reign;
What is this about?
Where are we told the fallen angels are in prison chains unable to do anything but wait until judgement?
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness.
No mention of prison? only chained to earth...
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
No mention of prison, only chained to earth in darkness, unto a judgment later on
Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Here the fallen angels are chained to earth as before, but now can't tempt humans to sin. Why is that? All the humans are dead or gone... no humans alive on earth.
So your prison, can't do anything is a false idea? Please explain, you always write so little words, you are always a brevity brave? Can't you add Scripture and defend your view clearly to others to read?
D"As soon as you choose the word Umbra Shadow you teach there is something that can block God presence / access
R" umbra shadow is a simile of sin
So are you saying when you sin, you do not miss out of a flow of God's powers? Does not the sin cause a blocking out of God's powers flowing into you? Y/N?
Please answer my questions here, ANd add your discussions too.
D"The only King I have is in heaven
Mat 6:24 “No one can serve two masters;
R" If that is true, why do you speak of the archons so much and this new knowledge so much?
No man can read two books on the same king in heaven either, but you read the Gnostic books, which my Veith pointed out is already in the new translations, the Rome edit is all about adding GNostic sentiments to their Bibles... I didn't know this.
I thought you said the Rome edit got rid of all the Bible versions and burned Gnostic sentiments. Not so says Veith. The Rome edits added Gnostic sentiments to their Bibles.
He even says the Septuagint Greek version may be a fake, an idea of Origin only.
His video really threw me, since my discussions of Gnosticism with you.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2021 7:31:32 GMT -5
D"So why are your fallen angels not in chains in prison – is Peter and Jude wrong? Where are we told the fallen angels are in prison chains unable to do anything but wait until judgement? Jude 1: No mention of prison? only chained to earth... 2Pe 2:4 No mention of prison, only chained to earth in darkness, unto a judgment later on Re 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Here the fallen angels are chained to earth as before, So you and the SDA teach this world is the hell – and the bottomless pit This is a JW teaching – they also deny the trinity You guys have a lot in common
Rev 9:2 He opened the pit, and smoke rose from the pit like the smoke of a gigantic furnace. The sun and the air were darkened by the smoke from the pit. Rev 9:3 Then from the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given to them like the scorpions have power over the earth. Rev 9:4 They were told to do no harm to the grass of the earth or any green plant or any tree, but only the people who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. Rev 9:5 And they were permitted not to kill them, but to torment them for five months—and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a person.
So God opens earth – and the sinning angels are let out of earth to plague earth
Can't you add Scripture and defend your view clearly to others to read? Tell me how your ideas fit the precepts established scripute If this is hell – then what punishment awaits the wicked?
So are you saying when you sin, you do not miss out of a flow of God's powers? Does not the sin cause a blocking out of God's powers flowing into you? Y/N? Please answer my questions here, ANd add your discussions too.
What do you mean the flow of your gods’ powers? For a long time you argued that we are just the HS empowered animal – if the HS left us we would just die Now you ask if this is true? Now you ask if your teaching is correct Answer – man is a free and independent spirit – an individual Man lives as long as His biology functions – then his spirit retunes to God for judgment
D"The only King I have is in heaven Mat 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; R" If that is true, why do you speak of the archons so much and this new knowledge so much?
DUH – I though you knew your scripture Eph 6:5 Slaves, obey your human masters, with respect and reverence, with sincerity of heart, as you would the Messiah— Eph 6:6 not just under your master’s eye as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Messiah doing God’s will from the soul. Eph 6:7 Serve with a positive attitude, as to the Lord and not to men— Eph 6:8 knowing that whatever good each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free. Eph 6:9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Stop using threats, knowing that the Master—of them and of you, too—is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with Him. The Whole Armor of God Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you are able to stand against the schemes of the devil. Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the worldly forces of this darkness, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist when the times are evil, and after you have done everything, to stand firm. Eph 6:14 Stand firm then! Buckle the belt of truth around your waist, and put on the breastplate of righteousness. Eph 6:15 Strap up your feet in readiness with the Good News of shalom. Eph 6:16 Above all, take up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Eph 6:18 Pray in the Ruach on every occasion, with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, keep alert with perseverance and supplication for all the kedoshim. Eph 6:19 And pray for me when I open my mouth to make known with boldness the mystery of the Good News, Eph 6:20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may speak boldly, the way I should.
No man can read two books on the same king in heaven either, but you read the Gnostic books, which my Veith pointed out is already in the new translations, the Rome edit is all about adding GNostic sentiments to their Bibles... I didn't know this.
Eph 6:6 not just under your master’s eye as people-pleasers, but as slaves of Messiah doing God’s will from the soul.
Too bad you do not grasp the meaning of this verse
I thought you said the Rome edit got rid of all the Bible versions and burned Gnostic sentiments. Not so says Veith. The Rome edits added Gnostic sentiments to their Bibles. So now you say your perfect sola scriptum is flawed – I though you said it is the only approves text
He even says the Septuagint Greek version may be a fake, an idea of Origin only. The LXX is the OT for the solar scriptum – written by Erasmus that was later banned from the church
And you say – these two texts are the only God approved literature The only thing consistent about your theology is that satan is a god
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Post by Dave on Dec 18, 2021 9:36:24 GMT -5
Here the fallen angels are chained to earth as before, So you and the SDA teach this world is the hell – and the bottomless pit This is a JW teaching – they also deny the trinity You guys have a lot in common
Is this why you deny Proportional Punishment? You have no hell - no Gehenna - the world is hell already 100% a JW teaching
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2021 15:59:08 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Here is a fair treatment of Gnostic history gnosticismexplained.org/the-origins-of-gnosticism/#:~:text=Everyone%20agrees%20that%20Gnosticism%20must%20have%20originated%20well,in%20a%20book%20written%20right%20around%20that%20time. gnosticismexplained.org/Your comments please What Is Gnosticism?
Gnosticism is a type of early Christianity that taught that the material world was created by an evil being, and that Christ came to earth to liberate people from this evil world through the spiritual experience called “gnosis” – the root of the word “Gnostic.” Gnosis was salvation through mystical union with the divine, and as such was something that each individual had to experience internally for himself or herself. It couldn’t be obtained through any outward social/institutional means alone: believing in creeds, observing the sacraments, obeying the clergy, behaving morally, etc. Who or what was this evil being who created our material world? Did Jesus (GOD the Father in your view) come from a different source, to liberate us? Thus, the Gnostics had just as much of a claim to representing “real Christianity” as did anyone else at the time. There was no official, shared standard of “orthodoxy” or “heresy” – just different personal understandings and opinions.[3]Hmm? The theology of Gnosticism was based on a particular type of dualism called “anticosmicism,” which means that the Gnostics were against (“anti-“) the world (“cosmos”). They believed that matter and the divine were antithetical to one another, and that true spirituality didn’t consist of achieving harmony with this wretched world or the equally horrible creator god of the Book of Genesis. Instead, true spirituality consisted of escaping the bonds of this earthly prison by awakening to the transcendent divinity that lies hidden within oneself, and which Christ had spoken of in his journey to earth.[4]Can you explain this in simple words for me? Gnosticism’s mythology illustrated this belief through two closely related stories: the Gnostic creation myth and the Gnostic version of the story of Jesus’s life. These were variations on two myths that all early Christians held in common: the creation myth in the Book of Genesis and the gospel story.Is he saying Creation in Genesis , is a myth? The God of Gnosticism was utterly beyond human comprehension in his perfection. As one of the Gnostic texts, the Secret Book of John, describes him, God is illimitable, since there is nothing before it to limit it, unfathomable, since there is nothing before it to fathom it, immeasurable, since there was nothing before it to measure it, invisible, since nothing has seen it, eternal, since it exists eternally, unutterable, since nothing could comprehend it to utter it, unnamable, since there is nothing before it to give it a name.[5]Hmm? Is GOD a power as Jeff explains "elohiym power" or a single entity "GOD" as Dave says, cardinally one being, three expressions of cardinally one being? Since Gnosticism’s God was too perfect to ever have any reason to do anything, he didn’t create anything – not even Heaven. Instead, Heaven – which the Gnostics called the “Pleroma” (Greek for “Fullness”[6]) – arose from God of its own accord, without his active participation in it. In some versions of Gnosticism’s creation myth, God’s thought overflowed into what became the other heavenly beings.[7] In other versions, God gazed into the spiritual water that surrounded him, and his reflection became a new being who then gave rise to further beings.[8] At the center of the heavenly host was a core “trinity” of God, his son Christ, and Christ’s divine mother, whom Gnostic texts sometimes call “Barbelo” and sometimes seem to identify with the Holy Spirit. Does Gnosticism really have a Family elohiym power, Father, Son and Mother? Or is Dave the only one with his cardinally one being, expressed as three forms of this cardinally one being? Please explain. Everything was perfect until one of the heavenly beings, Sophia (“Wisdom”[9]) decided to attempt to give birth to a new being on her own. Her son, the demiurge, was brought forth without God’s involvement, and he was therefore hideous and malevolent. He had the body of a snake and the head of a lion, with eyes like lightning bolts.[10]Who is Sophia (wisdom), is this not the HS? How can the HS create without her consort? I do not buy your left hand not knowing the right hand thing of the Father? What is the name of this demiurge, her son? Do you support this idea? In fear and shame, Sophia cast the demiurge out of Heaven. In his cosmic solitude, the demiurge created the material world in his own likeness: misshapen, petty, and just all-around wrong. He created numerous “archons” (“rulers”[11]) to help him rule his creation. DO you support this idea, that the HS's SON created our world, with it's RA, because the HS's SON is just as bad a creator himself? The archons had bodies that were both male and female at the same time, and their heads were those of ferocious animals.[12] The demiurge and the archons trapped sparks of the divine from Heaven within human bodies, which rendered humanity subject to the archons’ dystopian rule. Normal human life, from everyday actions to societal institutions, was the product of the evil desires the archons had placed within humanity.How can a creature trap sparks of the divine presence of the Father? Thus, in the words of another Gnostic text, the Gospel of Philip, “The world came into being through a mistake.”[13] And so the human condition as we know it today came about – not through anything Adam and Eve did, because humans were innocent victims, but rather through a Fall that had already occurred in Heaven prior to the creation of the world.Show me the actual statement, Dave of this terrible text: the Gospel of Philip, “ The world came into being through a mistake.”[13]Is this true? But Gnosticism didn’t just offer despair; it also offered hope. Christ, the son of the true God, came to earth to liberate the sparks of divinity trapped within the clutches of the demiurge and the archons. He took over the body of a man named Jesus and went around teaching people how to achieve gnosis, the awareness of who and what they really were, which would save them from the dreadful conditions in which they were trapped. When the earthly rulers, acting on behalf of their bosses, the archons, crucified the man Jesus, the divine being Christ who had inhabited him miraculously survived, thereby proving the immortality of the spirit and its invulnerability to the flesh. (See Jesus Christ in Gnosticism for references and details.)SO you have two forms of Jesus inside him, Dave, the material Jesus and the divine Jesus? You do not believe Jesus came in the flesh? The divine Jesus is truly encapsulated within the flesh. Not two forms of Jesus, but one form. Jesus Christ thereby became the first Gnostic, the model for all others to follow. To quote the Gospel of Philip again, one who achieves gnosis is “no longer [just] a Christian, but a Christ.”[14]DO you support this idea Dave? During Gnosticism’s heyday in the second and third centuries, there was no “New Testament” – no formal collection of early Christian scriptures that were considered more authoritative than others by all or even most Christians. Different early Christian groups held different writings to be sacred. The Gnostics were therefore far from unique in cherishing scriptures that can’t be found in what we today call the “New Testament,” and in disregarding some of the books that can be found there now. It was what all Christians did in some way or another back then.[16]That can't be true, from the Essenes in the Dead Sea Scrolls there are fragments of all the major books of the Bible, except Ruth, and Revelation (not written yet) found in the NT, all by 55 AD. ----------------------------- Since I’m not a Gnostic, nor a Christian of any sort, nor anti-Christian, I have no particular ax to grind here. I love exploring this material in an open-ended way. My hope is that some others might be able to find some value in it just as I have, whatever that value may beR" SO he is nothing.... Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. that is bias in itself...Hmm? ...not sure he writes things correctly ? ----------------------------- nor do I answer questions that are about me personally as opposed to my work on this siteR" What does this mean? He will not answer emails? ------------------------------ Gospel of Philip 15
Some have said that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Such people do not know what they are talking about. When has a woman ever impregnated another woman?R" Your comments Dave? ---------------------- This is why he said, “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life within you.” What did he mean by that? His “flesh” signifies the Word, and his “blood” signifies the Holy Spirit. Whoever has received these has received food, drink, and clothing.
Some say that the flesh will not be resurrected. I say that they, too, are wrong.
Do you say that the flesh will not be resurrected? Then tell me what will be resurrected instead, so that I may be impressed with your wisdom!
Do you say that it is the spirit and the light that dwells within the flesh? But this thing that dwells within the flesh is nothing other than the Word – and therefore nothing other than the flesh! No one could be resurrected without it, for it contains everything else within itself.R" It's not saying the spirit is different to the flesh, but that the WORD empowers the flesh? ------------------ 24 Jesus played a trick on everyone. He did not come in his true form, but in a form that others could see.
He came to everyone. To the great he came as someone great. To the small he came as someone small. To the angels he came as an angel. And to humans he came as a human. Some who saw him thought they were seeing themselves. Thus the Word was hidden from all.
But when he revealed himself in glory to his disciples on the mountain, he was not small. He appeared as someone great. Or, rather, he made his disciples great, so that they could see his true greatness.R" interesting. ------------------------- 37 The first created man was virtuous, but his children were not. If he had been born rather than created, his children would have been virtuous. Instead, however, he was created, and then he had children.
And look at what virtue came out of that: first adultery, then murder! Cain was conceived by adultery, for he was the son of the snake. Like his father, he was a murderer, and killed his brother Abel.
Every time two beings who are unlike each other have sex, they commit adultery.R" what is this talking about? ------------------ 40
Love gives and faith receives. Without love, no one can give, and without faith, no one can receive.
So that we can give, we have love, and so that we can receive, we have faith.R" what is this talking about? ----------------------------------- 44 God eats humans, so humans are sacrificed to him. Previously, sacrifices had consisted of animals rather than humans, because the entities to whom those sacrifices were offered were not gods.R" what is this talking about? ----------------------------------- 48
The Lord walked into Levi’s dye works and picked up seventy-two pieces of cloth, all of which were different colors. He threw them into a tub. When he pulled them out, they were all white. He said, “This is why the Son of Man came – to dye.”R" what is this talking about? Interesting play on word "die/dye" ----------------------------------- 55 There are both male and female unclean spirits. The males have promiscuous sex with women, and the females have promiscuous sex with men.
When such spirits seize a soul, the soul cannot break free from them without the power of its bride or groom. This power comes from the bridal chamber.
Whenever the female unclean spirits see a man sitting alone, they jump on him, stroke him, and pollute him. And whenever the male unclean spirits see a beautiful woman sitting alone, they seduce her, violate her, and pollute her.
But when they see a husband and wife sitting together, the females cannot proposition the man, and the males cannot proposition the woman.
When one is united with one’s angel, no one dares to proposition either.R" is not the author saying the spirit is an angel? --------------------------------------------- 64
In the days before Eve was taken out of Adam, death had not yet come into being. When she was separated from him, death came into being. If she and Adam are united once again, death will disappear.
R" Is the author saying death is the separation of man into Adam and Eve? That death came not from sin, but from man becoming two parts?----------------------- 70
If the first woman had not been separated from the first man, neither of them would have died. That separation was the origin of death.
Christ came to unify those who had been separated, so that he could bring them back to life.
The union between husband and wife takes place in the bridal chamber, and those who are united there will never again have to face separation.
Adam and Eve became separated because they did not go into the bridal chamber to be unified.R" care to add your thought? ------------------------------------- 73 A mystery needs to be recounted:
The Father of the Fullness united himself with the virgin who came down from that realm. That virgin glowed with fire. On that day, he unveiled the great bridal chamber, for the sake of which he took on a body. And he stepped out of the bridal chamber like someone who had been born to a bride and groom.
Through these deeds, Jesus placed the Fullness inside the bridal chamber, and anyone who wants to be his disciple should enter into it to find rest.R" Are we supposed to know the mysteries of salvation in the womb of God? ------------------------------ 75 Two trees grew in paradise. The fruits of one of them were animals, and the fruits of the other were humans.
Adam ate from the tree with animal fruit, so he became an animal himself, and the father of more animals. This is why Adam’s children worship animals they call “gods.” The tree whose fruit he ate is called the “tree of knowledge,” and this meal multiplied sin beyond measure.
Had he instead eaten from the tree that produced human fruit, the tree of life, the “gods” would worship humans.
In the other world, God created humans to worship him. In this world, humans create gods and worship their creations. It would make more sense for the gods to worship humans!R" no wonder we are told not to study this Gnosis...it's totally different to Jesus simple message of salvation -------------------------------- 85 The creation of this world was a mistake.
The creator wanted the world to be perfect and eternal, but he failed, and it did not turn out the way he wanted it. He is not perfect, and so his world is not perfect.R" OH, so who created our imperfect world than? ------------------------ 91 Everything about a holy person is holy – even his body. When he picks up bread, the bread is made holy. So, too, is a cup or anything else that he picks up and sanctifies. How could the holy person’s body not also be holy?R" I thought you said our bodies have ra in it? --------------------------------- 104
The root of all evil is the lack of gnosis. The lack of gnosis leads to death, for lack is the mother of no children; those born of it have never truly existed and never will truly exist.R" Hmm? comments? ------------------------------- 105 The demiurge will flee from that place. But he will not be able to enter the holy of holies, for he cannot be in the presence of perfect light and perfect fullness. Instead, he will dwell under the wings and the arms of the cross.R" who is the demiurge, who is imperfect and created our imperfect world? ----------------------- This website has much more to offer. I seek your comments first. This is fair. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 19, 2021 19:59:11 GMT -5
Here is a fair treatment of Gnostic history Your comments please
This website has much more to offer. I seek your comments first. This is fair.What would be fair in a discussion – would be for you to answer my questions to you Instead – you refuse to address my question and continue to post your attack upon me, my ministry, and this forumYou can test me all you want – I know who you areWhat Is Gnosticism? Gnosticism is a type of early Christianity that taught that the material world was created by an evil being, Question – what does this have to do with Gnostic Christianity as present bt me, my ministry, and this forumPlease quote – me, my ministry, or this forum - or James, John, Paul, Peter, and Phillip – the men that actually walked and talked with Jesus both before and after His ResurrectionIs he saying Creation in Genesis , is a myth?Question – what does this have to do with Gnostic Christianity as present bt me, my ministry, and this forumPlease quote – me, my ministry, or this forum - or James, John, Paul, Peter, and Phillip – the men that actually walked and talked with Jesus both before and after His ResurrectionThe God of Gnosticism was utterly beyond human comprehension in his perfection. As one of the Gnostic texts, the Secret Book of John, describes him, God isCorrect Gnostic John is in complete agreement with the ahl – he is/was a Jew you knowIs GOD a power as Jeff explains "elohiym power" or a single entity "GOD" as Dave says, cardinally one being, three expressions of cardinally one being?J eff Brenner fully support Christian trinityponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/539/jeff-brenners-hebrew-trinity?page=1&scrollTo=6816Jeff Brenner's Hebrew TrinitySince Gnosticism’s God was too perfect to ever have any reason to do anything, he didn’t create anything – not even Heaven. Instead, Heaven – which the Gnostics called the “Pleroma” (Greek for “Fullness”[6]) – arose from God of its own accord, without his active participation in it. First “Pleroma” refers to all the host od heaven - God, angels, archon, etcQuestion – what does this have to do with Gnostic Christianity as present by me, my ministry, and this forumPlease quote – me, my ministry, or this forum - or James, John, Paul, Peter, and Phillip – the men that actually walked and talked with Jesus both before and after His ResurrectionAt the center of the heavenly host was a core “trinity” of God, his son Christ, and Christ’s divine mother, whom Gnostic texts sometimes call "Barbelo" and sometimes seem to identify with the Holy Spirit."Barbelo" - is just a female name for the HS Does Gnosticism really have a Family elohiym power, Father, Son and Mother? Or is Dave the only one with his cardinally one being, expressed as three forms of this cardinally one being? Please explain.Jeff Brenner fully support Christian Trinityponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/539/jeff-brenners-hebrew-trinity?page=1&scrollTo=6816Jeff Brenner's Hebrew TrinityEverything was perfect until one of the heavenly beings, Sophia (“Wisdom”[9]) decided to attempt to give birth to a new being on her own. Sophia = wisdom = the Goddess of Wisdom = The Holy SpiritHer son, the demiurge, Not consistent with Gnostic Christianity as present by me, my ministry, and this forumPlease quote – me, my ministry, or this forum - or James, John, Paul, Peter, and Phillip – the men that actually walked and talked with Jesus both before and after His ResurrectionThey describe the demiurge as the Craftsman / or the Artisan The Creator was a Craftsman and an Artisan – I am perfectly comfortable with the vocabularyHow can the HS create without her consort?Job 33:4 The Ruach of God has made me; I do not buy your left hand not knowing the right hand thing of the Father?Mat 6:3 But when you do tzedakah, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
100% Jewish – 100% agl/NT – the right hand is the and of instruction and salvation – the left hand the hand of mystery and judgmentThe archons had bodies that were both male and female at the same time, and their heads were those of ferocious animals.Hmmm – male / female – there are male / female angels – man is male / female – most of higher creation is male / female Gnostic Christian literature speaks of male evil spirit tempted women and female evil spirits tempting menI am perfectly comfortable with the vocabularyHow can a creature trap sparks of the divine presence of the Father?Question – what does this have to do with Gnostic Christianity as present by me, my ministry, and this forumPlease quote – me, my ministry, or this forum - or James, John, Paul, Peter, and Phillip – the men that actually walked and talked with Jesus both before and after His ResurrectionHow can a creature trap sparks of the divine presence of the Father?What a blasphemy statement – Please quote me instead of some other menThus, in the words of another Gnostic text, the Gospel of Philip, “The world came into being through a mistake.”OK – this is a good one – I will honor your research with the best answer I haveI also have this passage highlighted in my hard copy“The world came about through a mistake. For he who created it wanted to create it imperishable and immortal. He fell short of attaining his desire. For the world never was imperishable, nor, for that matter, was he who made the world. For things are not imperishable, but sons are. Nothing will be able to receive imperishability if it does not first become a son. But he who has not the ability to receive, how much more will he be unable to give?”1- “The world came about through a mistake. For he who created it wanted to create it imperishable and immortal. He fell short of attaining his desire. For the world never was imperishable, nor, for that matter, was he who made the world. Isn’t this your teaching – God created a tov world – then your satan god corrupted it all – changed all the DNA – and sin entered the world?This what I will say in response – you must remember the sourcefrom the INTRODUCTION of my Nag Hammadi TextThe texts were translated one by one from Greek into Coptic, and not always by translators xapable of grasping the profundity or sublimity of what they sought to translate. The translator od a brief sections of Plato’s Republic clearily did not understand the text … Fortunately, most texts are better translated, but when there are duplications one can sense the difference a better translateion makes in comparison to the poor translation – which leads one to wonder about the bulk of the text that exist in only one single version. There is this same type of hazard in the transmission of the texts by a series of scribs who copied them, generation after generation, from increasing corrupt copies, first in Greek and then in Coptic. The number of unintentional errors is hard to estimate, since such a thing as a clean control copy dose not exist; nor dose one have, as in the case of the Bible, a quantity of manuscripts of the same text that tend to correct each other when compared. Hundreds of copies of the synoptic Gospels were compiled together to make the modern Roman Canon How many copies of the Gospel of Phillip exist in the entire world – ONE – and it look like: Thank you Roman Edit I am not going to let one word or phrase spoil the message of the text It is our job to look beyond the words – not stumble over then as some folk I knowPrecept upon precept, line upon line - scrupture must validate itselfBut Gnosticism didn’t just offer despair; it also offered hope. Christ, the son of the true God, came to earth to liberate the sparks of divinity trapped within the clutches of the demiurge and the archons. WHAT – this is a word salad – just a jumble of miss matched vocabularySO you have two forms of Jesus inside him, Dave, the material Jesus and the divine Jesus? You do not believe Jesus came in the flesh? The divine Jesus is truly encapsulated within the flesh. Not two forms of Jesus, but one form.I really do not follow your example hereMan = (yester tov – spirit) + (yester ra – biology)Jesus (biological Son of Man – 100% animal – 100% (yester ra)) Christ = 100% God Jesus Christ = (biological Son of man) + (God incarnate) Jesus Christ = (biological Son of man) + (Christ – the 3D image of God – Son of God) Jesus Christ = (biological Son of man) + (Christ – The Son of God) Jesus Christ thereby became the first Gnostic, the model for all others to follow. To quote the Gospel of Philip again, one who achieves gnosis is “no longer [just] a Christian, but a Christ.”DO you support this idea Dave?YES I DO – what did Christ do – He pre-existed then came to earth a s a man to Jer 1:5 – and upon His mortal death returned to the heavens Man – pre-existed – we came to the world to Jer 1:5 – upon our mortal death we will retune to God for judgment Man is made in the image of God What is the fist commandment – love God with all your heart, mind, and soul What is the second commandment – love your fellow man as He loved us That means we are to love our fellow man enough to witness to them as the expanse of our own life How do we do that – we jer 1:5 and generate FRUIT – we bring others to God We become a Christ Moses was a Christ – Cyrus was a Crist – Noah was a Christ Step up Christian – do your job – your commission – your assignment – be a Christ to othersDuring Gnosticism’s heyday in the second and third centuries, there was no “New Testament” – no formal collection of early Christian scriptures that were considered more authoritative than others by all or even most Christians. Different early Christian groups held different writings to be sacred. The Gnostics were therefore far from unique in cherishing scriptures that can’t be found in what we today call the “New Testament,” and in disregarding some of the books that can be found there now. It was what all Christians did in some way or another back then. Agree – there was no NT – these Christians cherished and preserved all the codexs they could The Nag Hammadi Library – is a Library – it contains both Sethian and Valtinian writings The Jewish temple was a Library – they cherish it all – preserved it all – many title you never heard of That can't be true, from the Essenes in the Dead Sea Scrolls there are fragments of all the major books of the Bible, except Ruth, and Revelation (not written yet) found in the NT, all by 55 AD.The Dead Sea Scrolls were a complete library with over 2000 titlesDisagree – that the agl/NT was not available – because sevceral of the text I use – quote from Paul and John----------------------------- Since I’m not a Gnostic, nor a Christian of any sort, nor anti-Christian, I have no particular ax to grind here. R" SO he is nothing.... Mt 13:11 - that is bias in itself...Hmm? ...not sure he writes things correctly ?I agree with you Robert – talk is very cheap – everyone claims to be an expert Does not mean it is spirit led teachingTest it all – keep the good----------------------------- nor do I answer questions that are about me personally as opposed to my work on this site R" What does this mean? He will not answer emails?Shabby doctrine does not stand scrutiny – I know some one else that refuse to answer direct question – but instead post yet anither anti-gnostic video------------------------------ Gospel of PhilipSome have said that Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Such people do not know what they are talking about. When has a woman ever impregnated another woman? R" Your comments Dave?The credit – the Praise is always Gods – is God male or female – neither or both – is the HS a He or a SHE?---------------------- This is why he said, “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life within you.” What did he mean by that? His “flesh” signifies the Word, and his “blood” signifies the Holy Spirit. Whoever has received these has received food, drink, and clothing. YES – real COMMUNION is with the HS – not a church ritualDo you say that the flesh will not be resurrected? Dave says – wait for it 1Jn 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. Do you say that it is the spirit and the light that dwells within the flesh? YES – true man = a spirit – many people call this a light body because it is not corporealBut this thing that dwells within the flesh is nothing other than the Word – Each spirit is a unique independent individual – alone onto himselfNo one could be resurrected without it, I agree – the body is just a vehicleR" It's not saying the spirit is different to the flesh, but that the WORD empowers the flesh?Each spirit is a unique independent individual – alone onto himself------------------ Jesus played a trick on everyone. He did not come in his true form, but in a form that others could see. Was it a trick – Christ is not a human being – but he came as Jesus Christ - a man to relate to men He came to everyone. To the great he came as someone great. To the small he came as someone small. To the angels he came as an angel. And to humans he came as a human. Some who saw him thought they were seeing themselves. Thus the Word was hidden from all. But when he revealed himself in glory to his disciples on the mountain, he was not small. He appeared as someone great. Or, rather, he made his disciples great, so that they could see his true greatness. R" interesting. – YES – fact or metaphor / simile – not error yet weird - agree------------------------- And look at what virtue came out of that: first adultery, then murder! Cain was conceived by adultery, for he was the son of the snake. Like his father, he was a murderer, and killed his brother Abel. Every time two beings who are unlike each other have sex, they commit adultery. R" what is this talking about?Sounds like my overly uptight sexually repressed grandmotherSex is a sin (not actually) but it is the root of many a human failure Is sexual sin rooted in the serpent / beast / satanas / world – Absolutely Every time two beings who are unlike each other have sex, they commit adultery.There was a time I tried to make this something about homosexuality – but I yieldRemember this text is speaking about man’s relationship with the world / archonTherefore = Reproduce after your own kind!------------------ Love gives and faith receives. Without love, no one can give, and without faith, no one can receive. So that we can give, we have love, and so that we can receive, we have faith. R" what is this talking about?Too me – this is 100% Amish Grace – did you ever watch it----------------------------------- God eats humans, so humans are sacrificed to him. Previously, sacrifices had consisted of animals rather than humans, because the entities to whom those sacrifices were offered were not gods. R" what is this talking about?Unknown – what is the source?Phillip talks about the World being a corps eater“This world is a corpse-eater. All the things eaten in it themselves die also.” - and to dust we all shall return “God is a dyer. As the good dyes, which are called "true", dissolve with the things dyed in them, so it is with those whom God has dyed.” God died on the Cross for me and you! ----------------------------------- The Lord walked into Levi’s dye works and picked up seventy-two pieces of cloth, all of which were different colors. He threw them into a tub. When he pulled them out, they were all white. He said, “This is why the Son of Man came – to dye.” R" what is this talking about? Interesting play on word "die/dye"Unknown – what is the source – not mineInteresting play on word "die/dye" Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.----------------------------------- But when they see a husband and wife sitting together, the females cannot proposition the man, and the males cannot proposition the woman. 1Co 7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 1Co 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. When one is united with one’s angel, no one dares to proposition either. R" is not the author saying the spirit is an angel?Again – for the MILLION time – angels = messengers – messengers of the Beast are called the serpent race, devils, and agl/NT satanas = Archon--------------------------------------------- In the days before Eve was taken out of Adam, death had not yet come into being. When she was separated from him, death came into being. If she and Adam are united once again, death will disappear. R" Is the author saying death is the separation of man into Adam and Eve? That death came not from sin, but from man becoming two parts?Unknown – what source – not mine ----------------------- If the first woman had not been separated from the first man, neither of them would have died. That separation was the origin of death. Christ came to unify those who had been separated, so that he could bring them back to life. The union between husband and wife takes place in the bridal chamber, and those who are united there will never again have to face separation. Adam and Eve became separated because they did not go into the bridal chamber to be unified. R" care to add your thought?The only thought I have is this sound like you------------------------------------- The Father of the Fullness united himself with the virgin who came down from that realm. That virgin glowed with fire. On that day, he unveiled the great bridal chamber, for the sake of which he took on a body. And he stepped out of the bridal chamber like someone who had been born to a bride and groom. Through these deeds, Jesus placed the Fullness inside the bridal chamber, and anyone who wants to be his disciple should enter into it to find rest. R" Are we supposed to know the mysteries of salvation in the womb of God?Hmmm – not mine – source – sounds like you not meJohn 3:16 (you can say Christ was the virgin without error) Heb 4:1-11 His Day of rest is still available to all that believe ------------------------------ Two trees grew in paradise. The fruits of one of them were animals, and the fruits of the other were humans. Adam ate from the tree with animal fruit, so he became an animal himself, and the father of more animals. This is why Adam’s children worship animals they call “gods.” The tree whose fruit he ate is called the “tree of knowledge,” and this meal multiplied sin beyond measure. Had he instead eaten from the tree that produced human fruit, the tree of life, the “gods” would worship humans. In the other world, God created humans to worship him. In this world, humans create gods and worship their creations. It would make more sense for the gods to worship humans!The gods here are the archon – we are to witness to all the heavensOur witness is a rebuke to the archon – to prove to them they have no real power Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. R" no wonder we are told not to study this Gnosis...it's totally different to Jesus simple message of salvation Do you deny Mat 10:28? Do you deny Eph 6:12? - Y es - I know you do-------------------------------- The root of all evil is the lack of gnosis. The lack of gnosis leads to death, R" Hmm? comments?Eve sinned out of ignorance – she was educated – it was the tree of Knowledge between tov and ra----------------------- I seek your comments first. This is fair.What would be fair in a discussion – would be for you to answer my questions to youStill WaitingInstead – you refuse to address my question and continue to post your attack upon me, my ministry, and this forumYou can test me all you want – I know who you areRobert – you have spent more than 2 years denying the Roman Edit Do you support your own posting or is this just more information your will again deny later R" If you watched the whole video, you will see the Waldensians were woshipping the Lord correctly, BEFORE any ROME edit happened. The Waldensians did this from early times, say 300 AD. Rome did not start until much later with it's influence. I watched your video – and fully commented Please respond to that – that would be fairWalter Veith on Gnosticismponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/538/walter-veith-on-gnosticism?page=1&scrollTo=6813
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 14:32:40 GMT -5
D" Please quote – me, my ministry, or this forum - or James, John, Paul, Peter, and Phillip – the men that actually walked and talked with Jesus both before and after His ResurrectionR" OH so your form of Gnostic Christianity is different from the mainstream Gnostic views? Is that it? D"" Barbelo" - is just a female name for the HSR" OK, why is the HS named when our Father is not named? If the HS is a mere feminine expression of the Father, why should it have even a name? This is making the elohiym powers into three personal beings. something you oppose? D" How can the HS create without her consort?Job 33:4 The Ruach of God has made me; R" Excuse me but " asah" means to "do" not make, not create, but do, the HS did as Jesus spoke, is my understanding of Scripture, is this not correct? Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. Jesus quoted the words of the Father, and the HS did as Jesus had spoken. is this not correct Dave? No make on her own, not made on her own, but did as Jesus had spoken. It's a small but important point. D "Mat 6:3 But when you do tzedakah, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
100% Jewish – 100% agl/NT – the right hand is the and of instruction and salvation – the left hand the hand of mystery and judgmentR" Maybe, but this aside, there is no Scripture of any power of heaven creating or doing on their own, so the HS doing without her consort is wrong, and this one line makes the whole of Gnostic writings uninspired. D" I am perfectly comfortable with the vocabularyR" OK so are you also supporting the HS's SON who created the world of RA, and made the archons like itself? important point to me, as to how you see Gnostic views. D" What a blasphemy statement – Please quote me instead of some other menR" fair enough, hence why I sought you first. --------------------------------------------- RP " Thus, in the words of another Gnostic text, the Gospel of Philip, “The world came into being through a mistake.” D" OK – this is a good one – I will honor your research with the best answer I have I also have this passage highlighted in my hard copy “The world came about through a mistake. For he who created it wanted to create it imperishable and immortal. He fell short of attaining his desire. For the world never was imperishable, nor, for that matter, was he who made the world. For things are not imperishable, but sons are. Nothing will be able to receive imperishability if it does not first become a son. But he who has not the ability to receive, how much more will he be unable to give?”
1- “The world came about through a mistake. For he who created it wanted to create it imperishable and immortal. He fell short of attaining his desire. For the world never was imperishable, nor, for that matter, was he who made the world. Isn’t this your teaching – God created a tov world – then your satan god corrupted it all – changed all the DNA – and sin entered the world?R" No you are totally wrong. GOD created a perfect world, without RA. Stop making me come over to your view. God cursed His creation only after ADAM SINNED, nothing to do with Satan doing anything. If fact the curse is really a consequence of SIN, thus when you miss God's powers, your world becomes cursed. " For he who created it wanted to create it imperishable and immortal. He fell short of attaining his desire. " You don't really support this idea do you Dave? You have a HS's SON unable to create anything perfect? Please comment. D" from the INTRODUCTION of my Nag Hammadi Text The texts were translated one by one from Greek into Coptic, and not always by translators xapable of grasping the profundity or sublimity of what they sought to translate. The translator od a brief sections of Plato’s Republic clearily did not understand the text … Fortunately, most texts are better translated, but when there are duplications one can sense the difference a better translateion makes in comparison to the poor translation – which leads one to wonder about the bulk of the text that exist in only one single version.R" OK I respect that, so do you really support the HS created a SON, who created the archons ? D" I am not going to let one word or phrase spoil the message of the text It is our job to look beyond the words – not stumble over then as some folk I knowR" Fair enough. ------------------------------------- RP" Rob quotes a Gnsotic text" Jesus Christ thereby became the first Gnostic, the model for all others to follow. To quote the Gospel of Philip again, one who achieves gnosis is “no longer [just] a Christian, but a Christ.”
DO you support this idea Dave?D" YES I DO How do we do that – we jer 1:5 and generate FRUIT – we bring others to God We become a Christ Moses was a Christ – Cyrus was a Crist – Noah was a Christ Step up Christian – do your job – your commission – your assignment – be a Christ to othersR" I would not say it like that, when we support Jesus and His words, His powers flow through me and I become like Jesus. Be beholding the love of Jesus, we become changed like Jesus. We become a spiritual clone of Jesus, but not a personality clone, our way of loving is unique, our style of love is different, but we are physically like Jesus, yes, as a simile of His powers. D" I agree with you Robert – talk is very cheap – everyone claims to be an expert Does not mean it is spirit led teaching
Test it all – keep the goodR" Yes Dave D" The credit – the Praise is always Gods – is God male or female – neither or both – is the HS a He or a SHE?R" I would say the Gospel of Philip is false. No where does the Scripture say the HS impregnated Mary. Lu 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. The text says the Father came over Mary and the HS (Mother) also, and they both born a seed, using one of Mary's eggs, and placed the egg into Mary as a surrogate. That is how I read the text. TWO members of the divine family are involved in the born process of their SON as a human. Got nothing to do with Mary. Only her egg was used. Notice I do not use the term impregnated. The overshadow also implies two heavenly parents were used in the born process. The Father and the Mother are different personalities of love. Again this has nothing to do with sexual gender, or matter, or biology. D" Do you deny Eph 6:12? - Yes - I know you doEph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Rulers of darkness, no I do not deny this Dave, only the origin your Gnostic speaks of the rulers of darkness. You say " the HS created a SON who imperfectly created the rulers of darkness with RA". Do you support this statement Dave? How can that which is divine, created another divine ? not possible Maybe a divine can created a creature from matter? But why imperfectly? And how can a creature create anything? D" I watched your video – and fully commented Please respond to that – that would be fair
Walter Veith on Gnosticism ponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/538/walter-veith-on-gnosticism?page=1&scrollTo=6813R" Great, let's see how the Waldensian's stand showing you their faith before the Rome edit changed things. Will do your response later, go to work now. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 20, 2021 15:54:32 GMT -5
D" Please quote – me, my ministry, or this forum - or James, John, Paul, Peter, and Phillip – the men that actually walked and talked with Jesus both before and after His Resurrection R" OH so your form of Gnostic Christianity is different from the mainstream Gnostic views? Is that it? On this forum I present The Reality of the Archon – and embrace the term Gnostic Christian Instead of talking directly to me – and my views – and the doctrine of Gnostic Christianity – you just post everythinbg you can find to discredit me, my ministry, and this forum
What is mainstream gnostic views according to you – so far it is Roman- it is Mason – it is occult – it is pagan – it is kabbalah – it is Jewish – it would be easier if you made up your mind
You claim to be a Christin – Why do you believe that god was just an ordinaru man that became enlightened and became our god and had twin sons – Jesus and satan DEFEND THIS CHRISTIASN VIEW – there is an entire OTHER GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST It is the same respect you shower toward me and this forum
D""Barbelo" - is just a female name for the HS R" OK, why is the HS named when our Father is not named? Too bad you do not have any understanding of culture God = God and in our culture God=Male As soon as you name your god he become a part of named creation – not the unnamed Creator
If the HS is a mere feminine expression of the Father, why should it have even a name? The name -Shekinah = the spirit of God that comes among the people – spirit = a feminine word The name Holy Spirit = the Spirit of God- spirit = a feminine word The name Shaddai - means what to you?
(google) The root "shad" (שד) means "breast". If this is the origin of the term, then El Shaddai would likely mean "Many Breasted One". Sounds feminine to me
D"How can the HS create without her consort? It's a small but important point. D"Mat 6:3 But when you do tzedakah, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 100% Jewish – 100% agl/NT – the right hand is the and of instruction and salvation – the left hand the hand of mystery and judgment R" Maybe, but this aside, there is no Scripture of any power of heaven creating or doing on their own, so the HS doing without her consort is wrong, and this one line makes the whole of Gnostic writings uninspired.
So – you refuse to accept that the left hand of God is the hand of mystery Who cares – if you agree with Jewish theology – you have made it very clear you deny that Jesus Christ was 100% Jewish, as well as all of His disciples, as well as all the authors of the agl save Luke
D"I am perfectly comfortable with the vocabulary R" OK so are you also supporting the HS's SON who created the world of RA, and made the archons like itself? Quote me Robert – or I will pull a Robert and not answer but change the subject important point to me, as to how you see Gnostic views. Then why don’t you review my views – instead of anything remotely labeled gnostic I give you the respect of not questioning you about Jehovah’s Witness doctrine or Mormon doctrine or Unitarian doctrine – all of it lasbeled Christian – therefore you agree with all of their writtings ---------------------------------------------
RP "Thus, in the words of another Gnostic text, the Gospel of Philip, “The world came into being through a mistake.”
D" OK – this is a good one – I will honor your research with the best answer I have I also have this passage highlighted in my hard copy “The world came about through a mistake. For he who created it wanted to create it imperishable and immortal. He fell short of attaining his desire. Isn’t this your teaching – God created a tov world – then your satan god corrupted it all – changed all the DNA – and sin entered the world? R" No you are totally wrong. GOD created a perfect world, without RA. Correct – then it all wnet to hell out of your gods control and your god has just been reacting to thyou satan god Stop making me come over to your view. Not my view at all – it is what you preach
God cursed His creation only after ADAM SINNED, nothing to do with Satan doing anything. OK – now you leave your satan out of it – now you say God made a tov only world until man had the power to change all of it What has happened to your satan belief – I though you teach satan was the first to sin and change everything – are your views changing
D"from the INTRODUCTION of my Nag Hammadi Text R" OK I respect that, so do you really support the HS created a SON, who created the archons ? D"I am not going to let one word or phrase spoil the message of the text It is our job to look beyond the words – not stumble over then as some folk I know R" Fair enough. You left out precept upon precept, line upon line scripture must validate itself And exactly why Ezk 28 does not fit the bulk of ahl scripture and agl satan is an entirely different entity
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Moses was a Christ – Cyrus was a Crist – Noah was a Christ Step up Christian – do your job – your commission – your assignment – be a Christ to others R" I would not say it like that, when we support Jesus and His words, His powers flow through me and I become like Jesus. Be beholding the love of Jesus, we become changed like Jesus. We become a spiritual clone of Jesus, but not a personality clone, our way of loving is unique, our style of love is different, but we are physically like Jesus, yes, as a simile of His powers.
Where is any fruit generation in your version Where is any Jer 1:5 in your version All you speak about is yourself and what you get
D"The credit – the Praise is always Gods – is God male or female – neither or both – is the HS a He or a SHE? R" I would say the Gospel of Philip is false. No where does the Scripture say the HS impregnated Mary. More Robert’s word game – stumble over words – miss the point Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
The text says the Father came over Mary and the HS (Mother) also, and they both born a seed, using one of Mary's eggs, and placed the egg into Mary as a surrogate. More Robert’s word game – stumble over words – miss the point
Rulers of darkness, no I do not deny this Dave, only the origin your Gnostic speaks of the rulers of darkness. You just claimed that all the Hindu gods were Myth You claim that most of history is a myth You claim the 1948 and current events are a myth and have nothing to do with scripture You refuse to address the ‘other gods’ of the ahl as real You refuse to acknowledge reality – and juts keep pushing satan as a god You refuse to acknowledge that Islam is the persona of 1 Jon 2:22
You say "the HS created a SON who imperfectly created the rulers of darkness with RA". Do you support this statement Dave? DID I SAY THAT - Quote me Robert You wouldn't be missreprenting me to others would you? Why do you say Jesus and satan are twin brothers - it is a Christian teachin and you call yourself a Christian - so defend this view - why do you make this claim?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2021 14:14:10 GMT -5
D" Instead of talking directly to me – and my views – and the doctrine of Gnostic Christianity – you just post everythinbg you can find to discredit me, R" No Dave I don't do this for discrediting you, but to help me understand you Surely GNostic writings were followed by others, so looking for words written by others helps me understand what you are trying to say... your brevity is hard to fathom you, so I look for other words...
D"You claim to be a Christin – Why do you believe that god was just an ordinaru man that became enlightened and became our god and had twin sons – Jesus and satan R" I do not believe this junk, why do you even post this?
D"then El Shaddai would likely mean "Many Breasted One". Sounds feminine to me R" It is feminine Dave, but no Name, is my point. D"So – you refuse to accept that the left hand of God is the hand of mystery R" I don't mind your idea of the left hand as mystery,
I am having trouble that the HS on her own creates without the Father's helping. Hence I reject Gnostic writings for this very reason, because that is not how love words, Love is relational and community.
This is how love words
Ps 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
All three members of the LOVE-HEAD were involved in creation of the world, as the SON spoke, the HS did using the powers of the Father, as this verse explains.
RP"" OK so are you also supporting the HS's SON who created the world of RA, and made the archons like itself? D"Quote me Robert – or I will pull a Robert and not answer but change the subject important point to me, as to how you see Gnostic views. Then why don’t you review my views... R" Are you afraid of the simple answer? I take it you do not support this idea? Fair enough, so explain to me what this demiurge is and how it came to create archons as the Gnsotic writings say, or is the writings badly written? maybe the archons got created some other way?
You seem to imply the Father created the archons? Is this your view? How come it is different to the Gnostic view than? And different from Ezekiel 28 account also? You see the Hebrew says were the cherubim who sinned came from, from decided to sin, using free will.
But you ignore these ideas, so I an asking you, how the archons came to be? I do not need to review your views, it would take hundreds of hours of reading, I am simply asking you for a summary of your view, answer my question? My answer comes from Ezekiel 28, the verses you ignore.
D"I give you the respect of not questioning you about Jehovah’s Witness doctrine or Mormon doctrine or Unitarian doctrine – all of it lasbeled Christian – therefore you agree with all of their writtings R" I am not JW, or Mormon, or anything. Maybe SDA in my views, but even here we have differences. I am asking you for your view, I am happy you differ with Gnostic views, etc, so how did the archon (first one) get created?
D"Not my view at all R" OK so in your view SOMEBODY created an imperfect world, a world that came to be through a mistake? What mistake Dave, please explain.
D"I though you teach satan was the first to sin and change everything R" Sin when does SIN change everything? SIN only caused GOD to allow the Shadday to empower the GODhead through the MEDIUM, so the sinning cherub could continue sinning without perishing. I hardly would hardly say SIN changed everything. But GOD had to react to the sinning cherub, and somethings of the relationship changed.
D"All you speak about is yourself and what you get R" I do not. Jesus is a provider and I am a responder, His fruits are made in me, to share with others.
Try to understand my view and quote me correctly.
D"You just claimed that all the Hindu gods were Myth R" I do not deny HIndu gods, only that they looked like reptile feet, thus promoting the idea this is evidence of the serpent race.
Can't a deceiver create evidence to promote deception, Dave. Is this allowed or not?
Can't a deceiver create a holy book (with errors) and leave it to be discovered a thousand years later? Is this allowed?
Such deception does not make the evidence true... is my point.
D"You wouldn't be missreprenting me to others would you? R" NO, I am fair when I talk about you to my friend at work, (only one friend) I do not pull you down at all. I said to my friend yesterday. I asked Dave when a spirit leaves the body after the body has died, why does the spirit have to be born again. Surely the body is not born again, as Dave says we get a brand new unknown body. SO why does a spirit that is already immortal and eternal have to be born again. I told my friend you didn't answer this question. And from there we moved on. I take this is a fair question? Perhaps in your defence, Jesus wants the spirit to be born again with more knowledge?
But is salvation only about knowledge? My answer is NO.
But this is what seems to be Gnostic is all about, higher forms of knowledge. learning Greek and higher forms of knowledge does not save you. What saves you than, Jesus does.
What must I do to be saved by Jesus? You have to daily do amanuah with Jesus. Jesus can begin saving you as the SEED planted in you, but also you must nurture this seed, now growing as a seedling, until the Seedling makes fruit in you, so you share Jesus fruit with others. This process of seed/seedling/fruit is done every day until Jesus sees your life as complete in Him. Amanuah is not knowledge. It is called faith. Faith is the ability using words from Jesus to receive power from Jesus, so Jesus works His works in you, for His Father's glory.
So when Jesus says you must be reborn, what is wrong with our first born? Two things are wrong.
1) the flesh is fallen and damaged by SIN 2) the HS living with this fallen flesh , cannot empower you with salvation
In other words, the physical relationship is broken, because of sin. Once you are reborn, the physical relationship is restored.
The fallen flesh is gradually restored without propensities in it, you slowly stop sinning, sins you didn't know you were doing even.
The holy relationship with GOD is fully restored and Jesus and the HS and the Father now lives with you fully.
Now I have explained my view, I asked you to explain your view, how can a spirit who is already eternal, require a reborn process as Jesus spoke to Nicodemus?
D"Why do you say Jesus and satan are twin brothers - R" I have never said this?
There were two Saraphs upon the pole, not one as people assume. Both Beings of Burning.
One was divine, the divine burning presence of GOD. The other was a creature of burning, the closest cherub to God, in command of the angels,but chose to sin.
When the people looked towards the pole after sinning, the Divine Saviour saved them, by opposing the works of the OPPOSER, the saraph that sinned against GOD, a mere creature of burning. Whose flames of glory went out, and fell into darkness.
SO please stop misquoting me and write my view correctly.
D"why do you make this claim? R" I don't. You do, you misquote or mock me.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 22, 2021 16:07:06 GMT -5
D"You claim to be a Christin – Why do you believe that god was just an ordinary man that became enlightened and became our god and had twin sons – Jesus and satan R" I do not believe this junk, why do you even post this? I am just trying to understand what you believe as a Christian It is 100% Christian doctrine – you say you are a Christian
D"then El Shaddai would likely mean "Many Breasted One". Sounds feminine to me R" It is feminine Dave, but no Name, is my point. Why don't you call her YHWY is you have no name for her? – DUH
D"So – you refuse to accept that the left hand of God is the hand of mystery R" I don't mind your idea of the left hand as mystery, I am having trouble that the HS on her own creates without the Father's helping. Yes you have a entire religion built upon a simile of one verse But you cannot possible unstained a metaphor from a different source
RP"" OK so are you also supporting the HS's SON who created the world of RA, and made the archons like itself? D"Quote me Robert Then why don’t you review my views... R" Are you afraid of the simple answer? I take it you do not support this idea? Fair enough, so explain to me what this demiurge AGAIN I WILL ANSWER YOU…. why don’t you read my views... The demiurge is a ancient Greek word for a CRAFTSMAN or an ARTISAN Leonardo Divinci was a demiurge – Micha Angelo – Aristital – Plato – etc etc etc Why can’t you bring yourself to admit the Creator is called a craftsman or an artisan You just want to stumble over words
You seem to imply the Father created the archons? Is this your view? There is only One True God – it it exist God created it – why do you deny scripture John 1:1-4 Col 1:16 + many more verses that say there is only one true Creator
How come it is different to the Gnostic view than? And different from Ezekiel 28 account also? Do the Jews have a second creator - no Do the Gnostics have a second creator – no Only you and Rome and your Ezk 28 want to teach that even God’s angels do not have to be loyal
You see the Hebrew says were the cherubim who sinned came from, from decided to sin, using free will. And you have seen all the Hebrew commentary about man and Adam and Eve
You teach Rome is a Jesuit Satanic Cult You Walter Veith even says – the word speak so hard against Rome why is Rome the author of you Bible And you teach that Romean doctrine is supreme to Jewish Torah Such a Contradiction
My answer comes from Ezekiel 28, the verses you ignore. Precept upon precept, line upon line we have been all over the 23 verse of the ahl In each verse satan obeys God and opposes man Let go over each verse again
D"You just claimed that all the Hindu gods were Myth R" I do not deny HIndu gods, only that they looked like reptile feet, thus promoting the idea this is evidence of the serpent race.
OK – tell what they really looked like While you are at it – tell us about the mythical gos of the ahl – what did they look like
D"Why do you say Jesus and satan are twin brothers - R" I have never said this? D"why do you make this claim? R" I don't. You do, you misquote or mock me. SO please stop misquoting me and write my view correctly. I have been requesting this of you almost since the beginning It is satisfying for you – why can you play the game – but resent it when the game returns to you?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2021 13:34:19 GMT -5
D"I am just trying to understand what you believe as a Christian It is 100% Christian doctrine – you say you are a Christian R" Never heard of this junk before, certainly not of my Christian past
D"Why don't you call her YHWH is you have no name for her? – DUH R" YHWH is not a name, but a functional description of "He who exists" It is masculine and in a community only the masculine members are mentioned.
D"Yes you have a entire religion built upon a simile of one verse R" The YHWH created the universe using the Ruwach of His mouth. Is from Scripture Dave. You have listened to spurious writings that suggest things not in the Hebrew torah. I listen to Scripture.
D"The demiurge is a ancient Greek word for a CRAFTSMAN or an ARTISAN if it exist God created it R" OK the Father in heaven functioned as a CRAFTSMAN or an ARTISAN. D"OK – tell what they really looked like While you are at it – tell us about the mythical gos of the ahl – what did they look like R" The Scriptures give us this clue:
Eze 1:7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot:
D"It is satisfying for you – why can you play the game – but resent it when the game returns to you? R" Dave I do not misquote you or make up stuff about you, you write brevity most times, so it's hard to get you to discuss. For example I am still waiting, if the spirit lives in human body, and the body dies and the spirit sees his wife tricked the body to die so she can have real life insurance claim, why doesn't the spirit seek her out, get angry and harass her for weeks and months, talking angrily to her?
Another question, Jesus said in order to be saved you must be born again, You say we get a brand new but unknown body in heaven for our spirit, so this only leaves the eternal spirit, what part of the spirit of man must be born again? And how is this achieved if the spirit is already eternal and able to talk and walk and move into our human bodies? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 23, 2021 15:04:24 GMT -5
D"I am just trying to understand what you believe as a Christian It is 100% Christian doctrine – you say you are a Christian R" Never heard of this junk before, certainly not of my Christian past(its Mormon) So – you keep posting Gnostic junk I have never heard of before – mot mine – and then ask me to defend it
D"Why don't you call her YHWH is you have no name for her? – DUH R" YHWH is not a name, but a functional description of "He who exists" It is masculine and in a community only the masculine members are mentioned. So terms like YWHY, God, El Shaddi, Shaddia, Christ, Holy Spirit are not names – they are just function discriptions
For example I am still waiting, if the spirit lives in human body, and the body dies and the spirit sees his wife tricked the body to die so she can have real life insurance claim, why doesn't the spirit seek her out, get angry and harass her for weeks and months, talking angrily to her? Because there are no such things as ghost – disembodied spirit of dead humans here on earth Why do you deny scripture Ecc 12:7 (TLV) Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Ecc 12:8 (TLV) “Evanescent vapors,” says Kohelet. All is futility.
Another question, Jesus said in order to be saved you must be born again, You say we get a brand new but unknown body in heaven for our spirit, so this only leaves the eternal spirit, what part of the spirit of man must be born again? And how is this achieved if the spirit is already eternal and able to talk and walk and move into our human bodies?
what part of the spirit of man must be born again? The modern terminology is to quicken – a quickening – an awakening You can be told things all your life – and it is all just conceptual philophy
Your friends are not really your friends – and when your belief is shake – you know (gnosis) You can be told all your life that smoking is bad for you – sure you believe it – but when you are diagnoses with cancer – you know (gnosis) Fire burns – yet we all test the concept until we knows for sure (gnosis)
I gave you a video of a Muslim – being a disrespectful Muslim in Philadelphia – but one moment HE WAS AT THE CROSS WITH CHRIST – instant conversion BOOM – gnosis – no one can even make him doubt his own experience
Paul – hated Christin in the morning – then BOOM had a face to face with Christ - instant conversion BOOM – gnosis – no one can even make him doubt his own experience
William Tynsdale – wrote the NT in English before KJV – was a priest for many years – held a high position within the church – but it was not until he was sentenced to die in prison did he experience the spirit. His words – he always believed but he never knew
Act 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Ruach ha-Kodesh, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God—and Yeshua standing at the right hand of God. Act 7:56 And he said, “Look, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” Question – could Stephen see into heaven or not – if he could why couldn’t everyone else there also see it? Answer – Stephan saw it through the spirit – spiritually discerned Act 7:59 They went on stoning Stephen as he was calling out, “Lord Yeshua, receive my spirit!”
2Ki 6:15 Now when the attendant of the man of God had risen early and gone out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was surrounding the city. So his attendant said to him, “Alas, my master! What are we going to do?” 2Ki 6:16 “Fear not,” he replied, “for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” 2Ki 6:17 Then Elisha prayed and said, “Adonai, please open his eyes that he may see.” Then Adonai opened the eyes of the young man and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 2Ki 6:18 When they came down to him, Elisha prayed to Adonai and said, “Please strike this people with blinding light.” So He struck them with blinding light according to the word of Elisha. 2Ki 6:19 Then Elisha said to them, “This is not the road, nor is this the city. Follow me, and I will lead you to the man whom you seek.” So he led them to Samaria. 2Ki 6:20 Upon their arrival in Samaria, Elisha said, “Adonai, open the eyes of these men, that they may see.” So Adonai opened their eyes, and they could see—behold, they were in the middle of Samaria. 2Ki 6:21 When the king of Israel saw them, he said to Elisha, “Shall I surely strike them down, Avi?” 2Ki 6:22 “Don’t strike them down,” he replied. “Would you strike down those whom you have captured with your own sword and bow? Set before them bread and water that they may eat and drink and go back to their master.” 2Ki 6:23 So he prepared a great feast for them. After they had eaten and drunk, he sent them away, and they went back to their master. Ever since, the marauding bands of Aram stopped invading the land of Israel.
1- Elisha’s servant was servant to Elisha in the Temple – of course he was a religious Jew – a believer 2- Elisha was not worried – because he knew (gnosis) – spiritual information – spiritually discerned 3- The servant eyes were opened – to see what was there – NOT A VISION – BUT REALITY 4- The rest of this passage is 100% magic – 100% spiritual – 100% Christian – he fed his enemy and drove them home 5- Ever since, the marauding bands of Aram stopped invading the land of Israel.
DO YOU BELIEVE SCRIPTURE OR NOT? Or are these just made up stories
And how is this achieved Easy – ask and you shall receive However – you must remember it is a gift – and gifts are given from above, whether you ask for them or not
Jesus said in order to be saved you must be born again, Not true Robert – you slander the word of God – all that is required for salvation is belief
Joh 3:3 Yeshua answered him, “Amen, amen I tell you, unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
William Tynsdale, Paul, Stephan, the man on the cross with Christ, Moses, Joshua – these are the First fruits Everyone else – awaits the first resurrection
You say we get a brand new but unknown body in heaven for our spirit, No I don’t – I say our spiritual body is ethereal – like the angels Do I know what that is like – NO Because it has not yet been reviled
so this only leaves the eternal spirit, what part of the spirit of man Man is spirit – once created spirit is eternal (without end) just like angels Unless – you are not written in the Book of Life and you are cast into the lake of Fire which is the Second death – the death of spirit
must be born again? And how is this achieved if the spirit is already eternal and able to talk and walk and move into our human bodies?
YES all biological men have a spirit within – it usually pops up as our conscious – the part that knows you did wrong without even being told But sadly – this is NOT the dominate / driving force in our lives – biology is and the daily demands of the WORLD (Contest)
We are sidetracked – we spend our time chasing money and security – it is all vanity – am illusion Someone once said – “I do the thing I have to do to life the life I choose”
This leave little time to live in the spirit – seek the spirit – pray in the spirit – communion with the spirit
Once you are touched by the spirit you crave it always – and you are ashamed of yourself that you are unworthy – which makes His gift of Grace even sweeter.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2021 16:39:03 GMT -5
D"So – you keep posting Gnostic junk I have never heard of before – mot mine – and then ask me to defend it R" I thought this is Gnostic? SO not all Gnostic is Gnostic? Fair enough. Seems hard to follow you than.
I would be much easier to follow, I just follow the common received torah, in the Hebrew OT and NT,
I follow all of it, not bits and pieces. Not from other sources even. If Ellen White is a prophet one must follow all her 700,000 words not just the words we like. Now I get the idea that Gnostic words failed to be copied over and over, over time, Why is that? Is it possible that were failed to be copied because they were considered not inspired?
How would we know which is inspired and which is not inspired? Following the common received torah is easier to do, all of it or none of it.
D"So terms like YWHY, God, El Shaddi, Shaddia, Christ, Holy Spirit are not names – they are just function discriptions R" Yes, functional descriptors of ELohiym power.
D" Because there are no such things as ghost – disembodied spirit of dead humans here on earth Why do you deny scripture Ecc 12:7 (TLV) Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. R" This verse says the HS returns to Elohiym powers who gave it. Why do you use this verse even?
The HS cannot be your spirit, who was created for you from day six of Creation?
Otherwise you are just quoting my view. D"Because there are no such things as ghost – disembodied spirit of dead humans here on earth R" correct. But this is my view. The ghost forms people see are archons tricking people into thinking they are speaking to the dead person, a spirit form outside the body. Therefore you agree with me there is no spirit outside the body, we can call our own spirit?
RP"Jesus said in order to be saved you must be born again, D" Not true Robert – you slander the word of God – all that is required for salvation is belief R" Are you disagreeing with the words of Jesus? Jesus said you must be born again?
I am asking Dave, what is born again? And you do not answer my question?
Now you say the body we have is not born again brand new, D"No I don’t – I say our spiritual body is ethereal – like the angels Do I know what that is like – NO R" So we do not get brand new bodies, but than you add we get a spiritual body that is ethereal – like the angels
So again Dave, do we get a spiritual body that is ethereal – like the angels, after we are born again?
How is that possible if after receiving Jesus, I do not see a spiritual body that is ethereal – like the angels, all I see in my old body after my baptism into Jesus?
Something is not explained by Dave?
D"Man is spirit – once created spirit is eternal (without end) just like angels R" Scripture never says man is spirit, where is your Scripture?
D"YES all biological men have a spirit within – it usually pops up as our conscious – the part that knows you did wrong without even being told R" I thought that is the HS, now you are saying it is my spirit that tells me what is right from wrong? How can I trust my spirit to lead me to salvation? Does not the HS lead you to know right from wrong? Does not the HS quicken us with salvation? Where is your Scripture on this idea?
Man is biological yes, and the spirit that lives within is a medium, that allows GOD to empower us, and live within us, a function of the HS. If your own spirit tells you right from wrong, there is no need for GOD. Please explain.
D" We are sidetracked – we spend our time chasing money and security – it is all vanity – an illusion R" So our own spirit is not listened to...?
SO why did Jesus say we must be born again? What exactly is born again? if your spirit lives in you, is you, but you do not listen to you speaking to you, instead you are side tracked by the world? Does this make sense? no
D"This leave little time to live in the spirit – seek the spirit – pray in the spirit – communion with the spirit R" What spirit do we listen to Dave? Our own spirit? commune with the spirit? What spirit? our own spirit, the spirit that is us but we fail to listen to? Your view makes no sense?
My view is we must listen to the HS of GOD talking via our conscious in our mind, but instead we listen to SELF, the part of us that is us. We listen to ourselves, and do not consider a relationship with GOD.
Your view has no relationship with God. All you have is your spirit that you fail to listen to. How can the soul sin than if all it listens to, is it's own spirit. D"which makes His gift of Grace even sweeter. R" How can a spirit that is yours living inside of you that you fail to listen to, be a part of God and His kindness to you? How can it be a gift even? Since your spirit began from day 6, and resides in you, and talks to you, but you fail to listen to it? What is this spirit living in us from day 6 of creation you speak of? that is about also grace?
This spirit has not fallen from anything, hence needs no grace, nor is it a gift given to the sinner, since you had the spirit from before Adam sinned. So nothing is even fallen in this sense. Please explain your view along these lines.
Have a happy Sabbath enjoying the birth of GOD becoming human like us. Can this make sense to you? If your spirit lives and talks to you from day 6, why did God have to demonstrate how to live and talk to your spirit, if you already have a spirit talking to you?
Your view has no faith, no amanuah in Jesus, and His spirit.
Instead you have man listening to His spirit. Boom gnosis and you know. That is not how salvation works. Salvation is about amanuah in the spirit of Jesus. Nothing to do with our spirit from day 6 of Creation. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 25, 2021 1:03:58 GMT -5
D"So – you keep posting Gnostic junk I have never heard of before – mot mine – and then ask me to defend it R" I thought this is Gnostic? SO not all Gnostic is Gnostic? Fair enough. Seems hard to follow you than. I have always been very clear about who I am, my view, and the literature that I endorse
The Nag Hammadi authors James, John, Paul, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas were all disciples of Jesus Christ All of these men knew Jesus Christ personally – both before and after His Resurrection All of these men were all 100% Jewish – as was Jesus Christ Himself All but Philip and Thomas also authored the agl/NT I want to know Jesus as they did – experience Jesus as they did – and yes – I believe in the spirit You are the one who fails to stick to this literature You are the one that just spent two years attacking the word Gnostic The only thing that you proved - is that you spent 2 years off topic
I would be much easier to follow, I just follow the common received torah, in the Hebrew OT and NT, I follow all of it, not bits and pieces. Following the common received torah is easier to do, all of it or none of it.
Then – precept upon precept, line upon line – revisit all 23 ahl verses specific about Hebrew satan and prove your case from scripture The only way it works for you – is if you insert the assumption “anyone opposing man opposes god” But when I ask when God opposes man does God oppose Himself – you do not answer But in the cases where Hebrew satan is working specifically to help facilitate God’s Will – you refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey the Lord
If Ellen White is a prophet – then she should have changed the whole world – SDA is not even as popular as the Mormons and they have an entirely new New Testament What kills it for me is her 100% adoption of the Jesuit Satanic Cults doctrine of Fallen Angels and has built a new religions all around a powerful satan and a weak god
Now I get the idea that Gnostic words failed to be copied over and over, over time, Why is that? Is it possible that were failed to be copied because they were considered not inspired? Is that why it exist within your Received text? Your Walter Veith and your Jeff Brenner speak at length about this corruption of the KJV
How would we know which is inspired and which is not inspired? Again – you fail to accept the answer
Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Ruach ha-Kodesh whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I said to you.
You deny scripture
D"So terms like YWHY, God, El Shaddi, Shaddia, Christ, Holy Spirit are not names – they are just function discriptions R" Yes, functional descriptors of ELohiym power. Names – admit it – they are names we use to identify who and what were are talking about Your word games are so endlessly tiring
D" Because there are no such things as ghost – disembodied spirit of dead humans here on earth Why do you deny scripture Ecc 12:7 (TLV) Then the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. R" This verse says the HS returns to Elohiym powers who gave it. You just deny the spirit
Why do you use this verse even? Because spirit is not corporeal / dust – it is ethereal / spiritual
The HS cannot be your spirit, who was created for you from day six of Creation? I absolutely agree – I have argued against your idea since the beginning The angels are not he HS – the evil spirit are not the HS – you are not the Holy Spirit Each is a unique independent individual
D"Because there are no such things as ghost – disembodied spirit of dead humans here on earth R" correct. But this is my view. The ghost forms people see are archons tricking people into thinking they are speaking to the dead person, a spirit form outside the body. Agree
Therefore you agree with me there is no spirit outside the body, we can call our own spirit? Again – quote me – your spirit is not on earth anymore because it returned to God
RP"Jesus said in order to be saved you must be born again, D" Not true Robert – you slander the word of God – all that is required for salvation is belief R" Are you disagreeing with the words of Jesus? Jesus said you must be born again?
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:3 Yeshua answered him, “Amen, amen I tell you, unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'
Why are you so comfortable misquoting Jesus of all people? Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Elisha vrs Elisha’s servant – one could see the other could not Stephan looked into heaven and saw James, John and Peter saw Elijah, Moses, and Christ transfigured – they could see Joshua – plucked from the fire by the Divine Pardon - First Fruits
You have never answered about 2 Kings 6 – true story of fact – or fiction
I am asking Dave, what is born again? And you do not answer my question? For the Millions time – it is the moment when the Holy Spirit – The Spirit of God touches your spirit Many time, 20 times, 5 times, or only once for brief moment – it is so powerful you will never forget (gnosis)
Paul met Christ face to face – Boom he gnosis for ever You have failed to answer if Paul’s experience was Fact or Fiction
Moses – saw the bush – heard the voice – witnessed the glory and saw the back What about Moses – Fact or fiction?
Now you say the body we have is not born again brand new, So again Dave, do we get a spiritual body that is ethereal – like the angels, after we are born again? We have always been a spirit body - DUH
How is that possible if after receiving Jesus, I do not see a spiritual body that is ethereal – like the angels, all I see in my old body after my baptism into Jesus? Something is not explained by Dave? You know my answer – you do not like my answer Elisha – could see – spiritually discern Elisha’s servant – could not
Why – what was/is the answer Elisha – was/is a spirit filled Born Again Christian – he was spiritually awake / aware Elisha’s servant was not Does this means that Elisha’s serve is not a believer – I doubt it
R" Scripture never says man is spirit, where is your Scripture? How is that possible if after receiving Jesus, I do not see a spiritual body that is ethereal – like the angels, all I see in my old body after my baptism into Jesus? Scripture says it many times in many ways – you refuse to believe it / accept it If you come from a SDA background – they have taught you it is a sin to believe in the spirit
D"YES all biological men have a spirit within – it usually pops up as our conscious – the part that knows you did wrong without even being told R" I thought that is the HS, now you are saying it is my spirit that tells me what is right from wrong? How can I trust my spirit to lead me to salvation? Does not the HS lead you to know right from wrong? Does not the HS quicken us with salvation?
Where is your Scripture on this idea? Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;' Joh 3:6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
This has nothing to do with being saved – or Jesus contradicts Himself This about personal Pentecost – Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God;
Man is biological yes, and the spirit that lives within is a medium, that allows GOD to empower us, and live within us, a function of the HS. Then every man is god – because the HS = God – so every man = Christ
If your own spirit tells you right from wrong, there is no need for GOD. Please explain.
Luk 24:36 While they were speaking of these things, Yeshua Himself stood in the midst of them and said, “Shalom Aleichem!” Luk 24:37 But they were startled and terrified, thinking they were seeing a ghost. AFTER THE RESURRECTION Luk 24:49 And behold, I am sending the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.
Act 1:4 Now while staying with them, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father promised—which, He said, “you heard from Me. Act 1:5 For John immersed with water, but you will be immersed in the Ruach ha-Kodesh not many days from now.”
The baptism of the Holy Spirit – personal Pentecost – is a different and separate thing than belief All of the disciple believed – all of the disciples believed after the resurrection Belief has nothing to do with the baptism of the Holy Spirit All of these believers believed – but they all had to wait for the baptism of the Holy Spirit to follow later
If your own spirit tells you right from wrong, there is no need for GOD. Please explain. With the Spirit come the gifts of the spirit – all to empower your Jer 1:5 Speaking in tongues, healing the sick, spiritual discernment, u8nderstanding
SO why did Jesus say we must be born again? Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Your view has no relationship with god Judaism, messianic Judaism, and all mainstream Christian teach a personal relationship with God I have no idea what your criticism even means
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