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Post by Dave on Dec 8, 2021 16:25:38 GMT -5
R" Nothing RA existed. – D” there was a lot of ra in the formation of the planets - the fossil record - the geological record - the cosmic record - stop denying reality R" If what you say is true, than God need not have cursed the Creation, after Adam sinned, ABSOLUTELT CORRECT – scripture is all about man Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
but God did curse creation, hence things were different before the curse. Gen 3:17 Then to the man He said, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate of the tree which I commanded you, saying, ‘You must not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. Gen 3:18 Thorns and thistles will sprout for you. You will eat the plants of the field, Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your brow will you eat food, until you return to the ground, since from it were you taken. For you are dust, and to dust will you return.”
Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it By the sweat of your brow will you eat food
YES – the thorns and thistles that already existed will now love Adam’s garden YES- We no longer live in a paradise where food just hangs on trees – at the moment man is pushing the very boundaries of science and fossil fuels to feed the planet
but God did curse creation, Your idea that Roma 1:19 + Psa 19:2 only show the handiwork of your satan is blasphemy Life is beautiful – nature is beautiful – everywhere man looks – anytime man looks IT ALL SPEAKS TO AN INTELLIGENT DESIGNER
Rom 1:20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— Rom 1:21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give Him thanks. Instead, their thinking became futile, and their senseless hearts were made dark. Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1:23 They exchanged the glory of the immortal God for an image in the form of mortal man and birds and four-footed beasts and creeping things. IT ALL SPEAKS TO AN INTELLIGENT DESIGNER – ONE TRUE GOD
WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO GIVE THE GLORY TO GOD? You claim all of God creation is gone – all corrupted by your satan
You have not considered this idea. D"Sorry Robert – you are insulting God’s soverignintry God does not play second to you satan God is not force or controlled by your satan R" Alright, you don't like my leading. What alternative is there? IT IS GOD’s WILL / GOD’s PLAN – because God is absolute You preach a weak god and a strong satan – your choice Your view. That God created both RA and Tov, CAN YOU READ SCRIPTURE
Isa 45:7 I form light and create darkness. I make shalom and create calamity. I, Adonai, do all these things.
Mic 1:12 For she who dwells in Maroth has languished for something good. For calamity has come down from Adonai to Jerusalem’s gate.
Mic 2:3 Therefore, thus said Adonai: “Behold, I am scheming a calamity against this family from which you cannot remove your necks. Then you will not walk haughtily, for it will be a time of distress.”
Amo 3:6 If a shofar alarm sounds in a city, will people not tremble? If there is calamity in a city, has not Adonai caused it?
Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being.
1Sa 16:14 Now the Ruach Adonai had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from Adonai terrified him.
79 Bible Verses about - God Created Evil
God created it and uses it at His discrescion
So your Gnostic view does not have a concept of SIN does it, the yester ra you speak of was already fully installed in Adam and Eve, while he was born, after all you say this fact is required as it causes a free will choice. Correct – if all you have is only one choice – you have no choice – you are a programmed robot The choice – not to follow your programming is a choice Without two choice there can be no Free Will
I would say this is false. Free will does not require RA to be installed. Free will is simply the ability to choose to miss – God by disobedience – by breaking the law God set before us
D"God does not play second to your satan God does not play second to your opposer God does not play second to your sinner R" Really. Explain to me than what sinning is Dave? Is you decide to sin, what happens in your view as far as GOD is concerned? You have answered this before? Nothing is your answer.
Sin = disobeying God / disobeying God’s Law Does sin lead to ra – sure RA = the movement away from God – entropy
If I sin – it will not cause an earth quake – or a storm – or the 1500 car accidents that happen every day
My answer is God is compelled to act to your decision. He already did – Gen 2:17 – he made the Law and it came with a penalty My answer is God is compelled to act to your decision. YEP – inforce the Law
D"Absolutely reject the idea that God is forced to do anything by your satan god R" Really. this cherub was the first cherub, the first creature to have sinned. No different to any other sinner who sins. SO if a creature opposes GOD by sinning, doesn't God have to make adjustments to His powers? Absolutely. He already did – Gen 2:17 – he made the Law and it came with a penalty
Ge 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. However you call this natural ra, something God puts up with naturally, a by product of his creation. The jewfish Parade says that from the beginning – I need to atone – God tabernacles with Man – salvation is only by the Lord – Passover + Pentecost The cycle of life rediscovered by Rom 1:19 or Psa 1:19 – regardless of scale Birth – life – death + rebirth
Each and every flower that grows – beatifies this world – dies – to be reborn WITNESSES TO GOD and the Resurrection
D"Correct – you teach the gun appeared in your hand after you pulled the trigger Will any judge ever believe you R" Twist away Dave. Explain to me how you can choose the gun if it does not exist?
D"God is omnipresent R" correct, I also teach this. D"God cannot be in two places at the same time R" Well you say GOD cannot co-exist as two expressions of God at the same time. So you deny that God can be in two places at the same time? Or that God can be at one place at the same time?
RP"This is your view: Adam was born with propensities of RA before he sinned. And so when Adam sinned those propensities of RA came to do what they were wired to do, develop more yester ra in Adam. D" NOPE – My view Adam was created with the Free Will choice to obey the Law to disobey the Law and the penalty was clearly spelled out When Eve choose poorly – it is just proof that all mankind chooses poorly – all men are sinners R" You see, you do not write discussions? How can anyone understand your words?
Sorry for the misspelling it must be throwing you off Adam and Eve are two individual people and representative of all man – mankind God gave Adam a Law to obey with the penalty Adam had the full Free Will ability to choose obey – or choose disobey When Eve took a bite – she simply validated scripture
27 Bible Verses about All Have Sinned
Ecc 7:20 Surely there is not a righteous person on earth who does what is good and doesn’t sin.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, “There is no one righteous—no, not one.
D"Sin = breaking the Law – disobedience Ra = the movement away from God – or corruption/entropy R" I though chata means to miss. Breaking the law is "pesha". ie transgressions. Word game – you MISS the intent
SO tell me, your definitions of sin and ra are not related are they? Sin is always – a personal ra spiritually But that ra might not effect another at all – only me But there is a lot of ra in the world – the earth is alive and is growing - stretching - maturing
D"If a tree falls over and smashes your car or house – where is the sin I define RA as the fruits of SIN. You ask where the the SIN is a tree falling over into your house? So you agree with medieval Catholics – if you sick – it must because you’re a sinner
You have negative entropy coming in before Adam sinned. I would disagree with is. Just show me you data – show me some empirical evidence How did the earth go from ‘without form and void’ to the planet Adam lived on without zero ra
You are an educated person – so it is ra for lava to cool You speak of the summer heat at your home – it is ra to cool the air and it is ra when the night brings relief – if you jump into a pool to cool off – it is all 100% ra
You are speeding down the road and you slow down for children crossing the road – all 100% ra Please explain to me why any of this is sin?
Who made the man born blind, the disciples asked? Jesus replied
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Jesus never answered the question. Where does RA come from? DUH - 3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
This ra was not from anyone’s sin – it was all a part of God’s Will / God’s Plan
Obviously GOD is not a sinner, - how can God disobey Himself?
is NOT the author of darkness, - This ra was not from anyone’s sin – it was all a part of God’s Will / God’s Plan
for GOD does miracles, and the darkness go away and the man sees light. Yep - all a part of God’s Will / God’s Plan
D"Yes please prove to me that if I have cancer – it is the result of my sin R" Yes indeed cancer is the fruit of your SIN, (google) How common is cancer in newborns? Unfortunately, cancer can occur at any age including during infancy. According to recent statistics, roughly 23 of every 100,000 babies are diagnosed with cancer each year What sin do babies do - that cause them to have cancer
R" so on the basis of one study you disagree to , you now use that to disagree with all studies I do with you? So you are biased Dave, does this mean you no longer reason with me? Your desire to pull words together regardless of context, grammar, syntax, or origin of words is flawed in many ways
D"Please tell me how cows choose to disobey God R" not sure of cows, but sometimes an angry bull can maul people to death. That is a sin, or RA effect from the curse on creation from Adam's sin. DUH – it is 100% (yester ra) self-preservation – defense mechanism
D"If your Hebrew satan existed as you present him, why in the world would a Jew never refer to it in over 3000 years of literature R" Alright let's test your idea that Jews are inspired and follow GOD. If you believe this then why brag of the Hebrew Again – instead of showing me your data – you simply attack the source
D"How does the wisest man – a gif from God - become so stupid? Why does the wisest king sin? R" You think is wisdom is something you gain. No Wisdom is the presence of the HS living in you empowering you with wisdom from GOD. Lose that connection and all your wisdom suddenly vanishes. I really did see your answer here – Solomon wisdom was a gift from God How does a wise man end up crazy building temples to shedim
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 14:43:04 GMT -5
D" YES – the thorns and thistles that already existed will now love Adam’s gardenR" Not weeds already existed Dave, but ordinary perfect plants became imperfect as the curse went forth. D" YES- We no longer live in a paradise R" it's no paradise Dave if meat eating sharks exist, or weeds already exist, you confuse word meanings. If there was a paradise before Adam sinned, than according to the word meaning, Eden and earth was perfect. D" Life is beautiful – nature is beautiful – everywhere man looks – anytime man looks IT ALL SPEAKS TO AN INTELLIGENT DESIGNER
R" correct, evem when GOD was forced to create a RA and TOVE world for the cherubs who sinned, this world is still beutiful after the RA came in when Adam sinned. Snow for example is one example. D" You claim all of God creation is gone –all corrupted by your satanR" I do not claim no such thing. Nor was it corrupted by satan. Why do you insist on making false claims about me? When Adam sinned, God removed his presence, and thus RA came flooding in, got nothing to do with Satan. However you do not have a Satan, only a Satanas, which is a scholar play on Hebrew Greek translations, which you still have not shown to me a scholar who supports your view. You have invented an idea, nobody follows? D" You preach a weak god and a strong satan R" No I don't, again you mock me and misquote me. God is strong and fully in control of SIN and the RA that comes from SINNING. But you do not have RA coming from SIN at all, You say God created matter which comes with RA, or as we see the term, we see your GOD creating SIN in the matter....and this is why I cannot stand your god presentation. My GOD is powerful and creates perfection, your god is weak and cannot created matter unless it comes with a imperfect by product called negative entrophy, the RA of matter. I pity your weak god and the terrible RA your weak God must put up with. My GOD is all powerful and reacts to SIN and SINNERS in love, no weak force here. Love is kind, yes but love is no weak force. D" Joh 1:3 All things were made through Him, and apart from Him nothing was made that has come into being. And that includes the SIN and the RA fruits of SIN, does it Dave? You admitted to me GOD does not do the SIN and the RA, the people who are wicked do. So when it says God creates RA, just like GOD creates umbra shadows, which you never consider in Isaiah 45:7, its a play on light and dark, why don't you look at my study? If an umbra shadow wanted to appear, it cannot under normally physics of God. SO God has to create the umbra shadow. How? spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htmUsing maths, geometry and science rules, the umbra shadow is made to appear. ie created by God. God is light, God is also a simile of the SUN. The light travels in straight lines, a simile of righteousness. The whole process is easily explained. Read my study. God creates RA, so the SINNER can see his SINNING and thus the RA fruits of Sin. D "Correct – if all you have is only one choice – you have no choice – you are a programmed robotR" you are not a computer programmer are you? What you wrote is false. Take simple logic If (your sensors see this ) do this That is a robot, no ability to make decisions despite sensor input, something a computer cannot do, we can train AI programs a little, but cannot do either. If( your sensors see this( if ( you wish to obey your senor imput) do this ) or do this ) This is a nested IF statement, and has now the cognitive mind overiding the sensor input. The decision to not obey, is not on input alone. Ge 3:6 ¶ And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. This implies the RA tree has good fruit and was nice to eat. Maybe it was, but her decision to disobey did not come from here. Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Her decision not to obey came from here, Ye shall NOT .... The other being introduced the idea that the mind can NOT obey. So the decision does not require RA already embedded in the decision, the decision is only based in the ability NOT, to negate having GOD in your life. Ge 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil Here the Deceiver deceives with a terrible sinning idea, Ye shall be as elohiym's... Humans were already created a little lower than elohiym, ABOVE the angel/cherub kind. The Gnostic statement that Ibis refused to bow to humans because they are dust, really impacts your view Dave, for than the humans are NOT spirit like Ibis was, and second Ibis saw himself as superior to man, when in fact man is created superior to the angels/cherubims. How can I say this? because ekohiym created mankind a little lower than elohiym, thus above angels, the KJV translate this verse wrong. This also proves the cherub are of matter in origin too, and no create has this eternal spirit thing you speak of. What the Serpent told Eve, Eve had already.... she was like GOD isn every way, except one: She did not know about RA and SIN and the the affects of SINNING. Who would want to know this anyway? The serpent must have known this, RA and SIN and the the affects of SINNING, otherwise the serpent could not have spoken so clearly. But you ignore the serpent as the Father of Lies, the First sinning creature. You ignore this sinful creature in the EDEN garden, you say it is only man, so in Exekiel 28 you ignore the identity of the Serpent. D" God by disobedience – by breaking the law God set before usR" What? now you come over to my side Dave? Make up your mind, which is it? Where does SIN come from? Sin does not need to exist, if God has laws concerning SIN. No adultery. This law means I am your marriage partner, remain loyal to me. How can you break this command if there is no other elohiym power foro man to commit adultery with? SO you negate the laws even, Dave so they do not exist, yet you speak of laws? How confused are you? If the first law says I am your saviour, why is Eve seeking another elohiym power to save her, enlighten her and give her more wisdom? You ignore the serpent, just an archon tempting/testing Eve, No Dave, more than that, has to be more than that. The deceiver has to be an opposing elohiym power, for Eve to break the first LAW, and break the second LAW, she saw the RA fruit as good, and the third law, She listened to the words of the empty god speaking false wisdom to her, and the fourth law, She went and spent time speaking to another strong authority rather than asking GOD, the HS who was right inside her and could have replied for her, so her mind did not enter that rest, and she broke the fifth law and broke resect from her heavenly parents who created her, and she broke the sixth law, and did wounding to GOD, the HS inside her, and she broken the seventh law and "committed sex" in her mind with an opposing elohiym power, and she broke the 8th law and stole the properties of the HS and used them for SELF gain, and she broke the 9th law and became a false witness, and she broke the 10th law, and desired the serpent more than desiring her heavenly Father. D "If I sin – it will not cause an earth quake – or a storm – or the 1500 car accidents that happen every dayR" No correct, you SIN will not/ may not affect others, but maybe it will, only God knows what RA comes from your SIN. Some say a stone in the pond causes ripples of RA for eternity. Think about this. Want me to negate your idea? Ex 20:5 ..., visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; Your SIN impacts your body and is recorded in your DNA, your epigenetics, so your children and your childrens children inherit a propensity caused by your SIN. It's here in the second LAW of the Father. D" He already did – Gen 2:17 – he made the Law and it came with a penalty My answer is God is compelled to act to your decision. YEP – inforce the LawGod had one command, do not eat of this tree in the middle of the Garden? How many trees were in the middle of the Garden Dave? TWO. Not one, as you claim. How many elohiym powers were allowed in the middle the the garden Dave? TWO. Why are there groves to worship the elohiym power in the middle of the garden? Because such a power existed before Eden did, long ago, a cherub sinned, something you ignore, came to the middle of the Garden like King Tyre did, to become greater in pride, like the Most High. The Chinese have this idea thousands of years before your Roman edit, and in fact hundreds of years before Abram even existed. SO the Christian Chinese under Noah, existed long before Abram and long before Jews. I suspect God failed with Chinese people after a time and thus looked for an alternative, thus came to Abram. The opposing elohiym power always tries to defeat God's process of salvation, not as you claim as a prosecutor, but more as a destroyer., Again something you ignore. D" Each and every flower that growsR" I look forward to as Mrs White writes, when in heaven we pick the flowers that never fade and never die. How is it possible for a flower not to fade, when removed from it's roots? Easy. If God is empowering all things, than the life for the picked flower must come from God, who alone is the source of all living. D" Explain to me how you can choose the gun if it does not exist?R" some things are mysteries Dave, must you have answers to all difficult questions? Where did SIN come from? Bible has no answer? Where does the fruits of Sin, the RA come from? Nobody knows, You can make an umbra shadow on this fallen earth, but never make one in the brighter glorious earth. One day in heaven we will never desire to know where RA and SIN comes from. Who cares? What we will know is the glorious glory of perfection. Learn to trust God and leave some answers in Him alone. D" So you deny that God can be in two places at the same time? Or that God can be at one place at the same time?COnsider this verse Dave Ge 19:24 ¶ Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; TWO YHWH here, both at same time, one on earth and one in heaven. How is this possible with your view, of ONE GOD having two expressions at the same time? You say two expressions cannot co-exist? RP" This is your view: Adam was born with propensities of RA before he sinned. And so when Adam sinned those propensities of RA came to do what they were wired to do, develop more yester ra in Adam.D" NOPE – My view Adam was created with the Free Will choice to obey the Law to disobey the Law and the penalty was clearly spelled outR" Oh changed your mind now? D" Sin is always – a personal ra spiritually But that ra might not effect another at all – only meR" so can your RA affect your children and your childrens children? Why do you make sin literal and RA spiritual? Arn't they both literal? D" So you agree with medieval Catholics – if you sick – it must because you’re a sinnerR" NO Dave. I explained my view, can't you read? I quote" R" I would say if GOD is missing from your life, than the RA comes over you, the results and fruits of SIN, ie missing GOD in your life. God does not make bad things happen to you, but bad things happen to you because of the missing in your life. However I remember a lovely SDA lady my wife knows, who died of cancer, and she did no bad things that we know of. So sometimes RA is difficult to pin down to a SIN problem. Take Job for instance, the RA that happened to JOB, what SIN did JOB experience to get the bad things? None. They came from over JOB because the Opposer wanted to tempt Job to sin, and God allowed this to occur. So someimes RA can come through no fault of your own. End quote D" How did the earth go from ‘without form and void’ to the planet Adam lived on without zero raR" OK you have got me here, darkness is RA, and existed on earth as a part of the perfect creation for man. I will have to read some more of Mrs White on this idea Dave and get back to you, but I doubt she answers this question, and I remember only one sermon one SDA dared to preach long ago. Again you raise difficult questions. Perhaps since the fallen angel cherub has sinned long before man, and were placed on earth, God created a near perfect world around the fallen angels, for man to be a witness against these sinning angels. D" You are an educated person – so it is ra for lava to cool You speak of the summer heat at your home – it is ra to cool the air and it is ra when the night brings relief – if you jump into a pool to cool off – it is all 100% ra
You are speeding down the road and you slow down for children crossing the road – all 100% ra Please explain to me why any of this is sin?R" I will think about this more Dave. And get back to you. D" What sin do babies do - that cause them to have cancerR" The DNA came inherited with defects and epigenetics from the parents, hence the baby gets cancer. The baby also spends 9 months listening to Mum argue, to Dad fight and eats the same cancer food as Mum eats. D" DUH – it is 100% (yester ra) self-preservation – defense mechanismR" maybe for the bull SHalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 9, 2021 17:47:45 GMT -5
D"YES – the thorns and thistles that already existed will now love Adam’s garden R" Not weeds already existed Dave, but ordinary perfect plants became imperfect as the curse went According to you Roses are a weed – it has thorns There was no second creation – and no second creatorD"YES- We no longer live in a paradise R" it's no paradise Dave if meat eating sharks exist, or weeds already exist, you confuse word meanings. YES – man no longer lives in EdenIf there was a paradise before Adam sinned, than according to the word meaning, Eden and earth was perfect. Eden was not perfect? – Just what type of Christianity do you preach Even Eden was a flawed corrupt place for the SDAD"Life is beautiful – nature is beautiful – everywhere man looks – anytime man looks IT ALL SPEAKS TO AN INTELLIGENT DESIGNER R" correct, evem when GOD was forced to create a RA God does not play second to your satan gods
D"You claim all of God creation is gone –all corrupted by your satan R" I do not claim no such thing. Nor was it corrupted by satan. Why do you insist on making false claims about me?R" correct, even when GOD was forced to create a RAStill trying to decide what it is you preach - Your god has to do things because your satan forces Him to play catch upD"You preach a weak god and a strong satan R" No I don't, again you mock me and misquote me.You just reinforced the idea that God has to play second to your satan god – you say God was forced to do something by your satan godD"Correct – if all you have is only one choice – you have no choice – you are a programmed robot R" you are not a computer programmer are you? What you wrote is false. Take simple logic STOP – I will listen no more to your stupid exampleIf you only have one choice – you have no other choices – periodGe 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Her decision not to obey came from here, Ye shall NOT ....You say – this is a lie – so you deny salvation and eternal lifeBut you ignore the serpent as the Father of Lies, the First sinning creature The serpent did not lie – I full believe in the eternal salvation of my soulYou can bank on this being a lie – but all Christians preach it to be trueThis also proves the cherub are of matter in origin too, and no create has this eternal spirit thing you speak of.YEP – all you have is biology – just focus upon the WORLD – deny the spiritual Is this why you god cannot be in two places at the same time – because your god is biologyYou ignore this sinful creature in the EDEN garden, you say it is only man, so in Exekiel 28 you ignore the identity of the Serpent.Just what about the Beast of Revelation, the serpent race, the devils and satanas do I deny?D" God by disobedience – by breaking the law God set before us R" What? now you come over to my side Dave? Make up your mind, which is it? Where does SIN come from? Again – for the MILLIONTH TIME – sin = disobeying the Law – I have always said thisD"Explain to me how you can choose the gun if it does not exist? R" some things are mysteries Dave, must you have answers to all difficult questions? Where did SIN come from? Bible has no answer? So you deny Rom 5:12 – I keep asking you for a list of all the scripture you have to deny to keep your satan doctrine center focusTWO YHWH here, both at same time, one on earth and one in heaven.Correct you say this is proof of two godsI just say the God has no limits or boundaries How is this possible with your view, of ONE GOD having two expressions at the same time? You say two expressions cannot co-exist?Correct – you deny the concept of One True God RP"This is your view: Adam was born with propensities of RA before he sinned. And so when Adam sinned those propensities of RA came to do what they were wired to do, develop more yester ra in Adam. D" NOPE – My view Adam was created with the Free Will choice to obey the Law to disobey the Law and the penalty was clearly spelled out R" Oh changed your mind now?No change – Adam was gifted with the Free WillYou are speeding down the road and you slow down for children crossing the road – all 100% ra Please explain to me why any of this is sin? R" I will think about this more Dave. And get back to you.Please do – your idea that ra is only the result of sin is error Ra is an important component of the balance of natureD"What sin do babies do - that cause them to have cancer R" The DNA came inherited with defects and epigenetics from the parents, hence the baby gets cancer. So if a baby gets cancer =- that is gods punishment for his father sin So your god dishes out ra upon the innocent – I thought you had a Feel Good God of tov only So consistantwith medevil CatholicismUsing maths, geometry and science rules, the umbra shadow is made to appear. ie created by God. God is light, God is also a simile of the SUN. The light travels in straight lines, a simile of righteousness. The whole process is easily explained. Read my study.YES Robert - I have looked at your study - long ago remember(google)What is the umbra in a shadow? umbra, that part of a shadow in which all light from a given source is excluded.You teach there are place God cannot go - place you can hide from God - you deny that God is omnipresent or omnipotent - YES - I reject the idea in its entirety
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2021 15:37:02 GMT -5
D"According to you Roses are a weed – it has thorns R" according to me, roses originally never had thorns.
D"There was no second creation – and no second creator R" change arising from DNA is NOT a second creation nor the result of a second creator? Why do you push this idea? Can't you accept GOD can program the DNA in creation to change if changes are required if and when Adam might sin and cause a loss of God's power washing over God's creation?
Can't GOD program the DNA to change and cope with changes in the natural world. This is NOT evolution either. I am talking about diversity , the changes written in the DNA already before the world was created.
D" (listen to the words of Dave) D"YES- We no longer live in a paradise Eden was not perfect? R" So Dave says Eden was perfect. How can you call Dave a shark eating fish perfect? or a Rose with thorns perfect? or natural decomposition of leaf matter perfect? How is this a Eden paradise?
My view is Eden was perfect, Roses without thorns, nothing ever died, no leaves ever fell from the tree, sharks ate algae plants, not fish. Now this is a place of paradise. But again you misquote my words.
D"You just reinforced the idea that God has to play second to your satan god – you say God was forced to do something by your satan god R" boy you are hard to fathom with.....
Question: Can your GOD normally tolerate RA and SIN? Well yes you would say
You have God creating matter with inherit negative entrophy in it, RA, a natural thing for your god. You it is natural for you to see sin and a normal consequence for God to see the creature sin. Hence the reason you write your sentences like you do
BUT
this is not my view at all. And because your view of GOD is different to my view of GOD, we cannot fathom each other.
My God cannot tolerate sin or ra of any kind. Everything is perfect with God. Pr 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: {unto...: Heb. of his soul} 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, {A proud...: Heb. Haughty eyes} 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, (RA)
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Now this passage is sufficient to establish my view and place your view of God into false teaching.
This passage lists thing God hates, and one of them listed is RA.
In conclusion Dave, your Gnostic teachings of GOD is false. --------------------------- So when it says God created RA and darkness, one has to evaluate this abnormal thing God does, and why God does this? Obviously because God is reacting to a sin the creature is sinning, and hence the creature wishes to observe his sinning.
One cannot be like Dave and say God normally puts up with RA, when Scripture does NOT teach this idea at all. ------------------------------
RP" TWO YHWH here, both at same time, one on earth and one in heaven. Correct you say this is proof of two gods D" I just say the God has no limits or boundaries
RP" How is this possible with your view, of ONE GOD having two expressions at the same time? You say two expressions cannot co-exist? D" Correct – you deny the concept of One True God R" Can't you write any more? Can't we have a serious discussion? Are you tired? Is that an answer? No, you refuse to discuss...
D"YES Robert - I have looked at your study - long ago remember (google)What is the umbra in a shadow? umbra, that part of a shadow in which all light from a given source is excluded. R" SO I write dozens of pages, and you write 2 sentences. Serious study and discussion Dave. Since you never asked me a question from my study, this proves to me you did not read anything or you fail to comprehend anything. I was a teacher of 27 years.
Can't you write serious sentences anymore or are you tired to defending something you cannot defend?
Normally in the presence of super abundant light, 7 times brighter than our current Sun, the making of umbra shadows on earth would be impossible. This proves that normally RA, cannot exist in the world with GOD, and if Ra and SIN is seen anywhere it is because God is kind and this is the first and last time such things are allowed to be observed. Such imperfection will not arise a second time.
But Dave thinks every time God creates with matter, it comes with natural ra.
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 10, 2021 18:19:18 GMT -5
D"According to you Roses are a weed – it has thorns R" according to me, roses originally never had thorns. No such thing as evolution – no second creation – no second creator
R" So Dave says Eden was perfect. How can you call Dave a shark eating fish perfect? or a Rose with thorns perfect? or natural decomposition of leaf matter perfect? How is this a Eden paradise? You refuse to define Eden All the Jews say – and I say – and mainstream Christianity says – Eden was a locality Eden continued to exist after Adan was ejected – or else no cherub guard was necessary – you over look this passage
If all Eden corrupted as you say – how could it still exist for Adam to return? Your doctrine has too many holes
Question: Can your GOD normally tolerate RA and SIN? You refuse to define the terms – so you do not have to adhere to any standard definitions You call anything sin Robert likes – you says it is a sin for an angel to obey the lord I have put my definition in print – you avoud taking a stand – so you can play word games
This passage lists thing God hates, and one of them listed is RA. DUH – doid you just figure that out - amazing In conclusion Dave, your Gnostic teachings of GOD is false. Please quote me says God love Ra- please – I beg you Can you argue facts – is that possible – or is attitude all you have?
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RP" TWO YHWH here, both at same time, one on earth and one in heaven. D" I just say the God has no limits or boundaries RP" How is this possible with your view, of ONE GOD having two expressions God the Father is on His throne 24/7 – one of His expressions is as Christ is His image on earth Another expression is as Spirit – which is Holy naturally = HS
D"YES Robert - I have looked at your study - long ago remember (google)What is the umbra in a shadow? umbra, that part of a shadow in which all light from a given source is excluded. R" SO I write dozens of pages, and you write 2 sentences. Serious study and discussion Dave. Since you never asked me a question from my study, this proves to me you did not read anything or you fail to comprehend anything. I was a teacher of 27 years.
You have a very poor and short term memory – we have been all over this at least twice before Your model says that there are place Your God is not allow – unwelcome – cannot go – or you can hide within – I reject this idea in its entirety But Dave thinks every time God creates with matter, it comes with natural ra. It is God’s Law for reality – science calls it the 3 Laws of thermodynamics Rom 1:19 + Psa 19:2 remember
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2021 15:24:28 GMT -5
D"No such thing as evolution – no second creation – no second creator R" I am NOT arguing this? Why are you mentioning I am?
D"You refuse to define Eden All the Jews say – and I say – and mainstream Christianity says – Eden was a locality Eden continued to exist after Adan was ejected – or else no cherub guard was necessary – you over look this passage
If all Eden corrupted as you say – how could it still exist for Adam to return? Your doctrine has too many holes R" Our prophet Mrs White received additional messages from GOD. Yes the Eden did fall into some RA and did remain on earth in the Dead Sea region, hence why 5 cities of evil grew around where it once was. I suspect (my own theory) that the hole where is Dead Sea is is the patch of ground God removed Eden and took it back to heaven, (before the Great Flood took it away) where in His presence, the glory of Eden returned and it became a garden without RA again.
You think RA is some object, Ra is a process of being away from God's powers, if the powers of God returns again, let's say back into the soil, the plants grow better and the female mozzie no longer needs to feed off blood for her babies, she feeds off nectar like her males mozzies do. Simple. No need for a second creation.
D"I have put my definition in print R" Have you ?
Chata (SIN) means to miss. In reference to God, it means missing God's flow of power in your life
RA (dysfunction) the fruits of SIN. What happens after creatures sin, the consequences of sin. When creatures sin, the whole world around them becomes less perfect. Why ? because God is not flowing as much as God did before.
Specific missing is mentioned in God's ten words, these help to define missing more specifically.
Pesha (trangression) the missing of certain directions God gave to man, His laws pertaining to His flow of power in your life. Obedience and disobedience make the term missing easy to follow or not follow.
I have put my definition in print too. I suspect the definitions are different to yours.
D"Please quote me says God love Ra- please – I beg you R" Oh sorry to have misunderstood you, explain to me than how GOD creates with matter and it has RA embedded in the matter? God hates RA remember, and you agree with me?
Explain how GOD allows creatures like archons to think of Self and to tempt humans to sin (ie do RA)
God would not create creatures of RA to begin with? Now explain how you agree God hates RA, yet at the same time Gnostic writings write God creates and somehow RA comes into His Creative works?
Something wrong here?
D"God the Father is on His throne 24/7 – one of His expressions is as Christ is His image on earth R" So in your view, the Father walking on earth talking on earth, arguing on earth, is the Father but expressed as a Son of the Father? Why do such a thing? Why not simply say to the Jews, I am the Father? Why speak of being also a Son and cause the Jews to hate him?
Joh 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
Why didn't the Father expression simply say to the Jews I am the Father?
Joh 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
Why does this verse speak wrong of your view. It should say They understood not that He was the Father on earth. It doesn't say that.
Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Again Jesus should have said, I am the Father on earth as the Son of Man, I am the Father who has come down to you in the body of man. But Jesus did not say it like that. Your view of GOD is wrong. (And when I use the term GOD I mean elohiym power - not the Father only, like you do)
Joh 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
Again this is written wrong. I should say And He that is sent is the Father. I am the Father on earth. But it doesn't say that Dave. Your view is wrong.
Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
Humans took faith on the Son that is was an ambassador for His Father, that is what faith means.
A Father on earth cannot support a Father in heaven, they are the same, hence cannot have faith in each other, as they are the same. Again you view is wrong, and you have nothing to do with faith at all.
Joh 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Again as in John 1, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was elohiym.
But why doesn't it simply say. if ye continue in my Father's words, ye are a part of me, as I am the Father on earth as the Son of Man.
Instead the Son speaks His Father words using the Son's lips and heart, thus the Son supports His Father words and is personifying them as the Word. Faith is supporting a another person's words, treating them as your words. So your whole concept of Gnostic faith is wrong. It cannot be a Father expression of the Father on earth.
I could go on, but you get my drift. D"Your model says that there are place Your God is not allow – unwelcome – cannot go – or you can hide within – I reject this idea in its entirety Please explain Dave, your brevity again.
The umbra shadow is a place where light cannot enter because the pride of SIN blocks the light of GOD from entering. Is this an idea you reject?
Such a view is easily explained by science, physics and maths. Why do you reject natural science that explains spiritual science? What causes the umbra shadow of SIN? The relationship does. Can the relationship change? Yes. Does the relationship want to change? Hmm? So your saying God can violate the free will and save even the proud person who refuses to be saved? Light can banish darkness but only if the relationship changes.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 12, 2021 9:46:17 GMT -5
D"No such thing as evolution – no second creation – no second creator R" I am NOT arguing this? Why are you mentioning I am? R" according to me, roses originally never had thorns. – DUH Either roses are exactly as God created them or they evolved into something different How many times have you argued natural selection – many – it is a go to solution for younatural selection the process whereby organisms better adapted to their environment tend to survive and produce more offspring. The theory of its action was first fully expounded by Charles Darwin and is now believed to be the main process that brings about evolution. D – repeat - "No such thing as evolution – no second creation – no second creatorR" Our prophet Mrs White received additional messages from GOD. Yes the Eden did fall into some RA and did remain on earth in the Dead Sea region, hence why 5 cities of evil grew around where it once was. I suspect (my own theory) that the hole where is Dead Sea is is the patch of ground God removed Eden and took it back to heaven, Where is your scripture? – where is your data? – where are the four rivers that begin in the Dead Sea region? I suspect (my own theory) – all assumption – all justification – just make it upYou think RA is some object, Ra is a process of being away from God's powers, Correct – entropy – the movement away Chata (SIN) means to miss. In reference to God, it means missing God's flow of power in your life SIN – failure to obey God – or God’s commandments – no more no lessRA (dysfunction) the fruits of SIN. NOT fruit of sin – but a full part of God’s creation that reveals the Intelligent Designer Isa 45:7 - Col 1:16 - John 1:3 88 Bible Verses about All Things Are Created For - OpenBible ...https://www.openbible.info › topics › all_things_are_cr... “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” ... D – repeat - "No such thing as evolution – no second creation – no second creatorWhat happens after creatures sin, the consequences of sin. When creatures sin, the whole world around them becomes less perfect. Rom 5:12 – Rom 5:19 When one man sinned – all men were exposed as sinners Why do you deny scripture in favor of your satan worshipSpecific missing is mentioned in God's ten words, these help to define missing more specifically. Pesha (trangression) the missing of certain directions God gave to man, D "Sin = breaking the Law – disobedience Ra = the movement away from God – or corruption/entropyR" I though chata means to miss. Breaking the law is "pesha". ie transgressions. What do you believe - double speaker - flip flopper How can you believe both sides of your own argument?Explain how GOD allows creatures like archons to think of Self Please spend some time with Gen chapter 1God said – and cows appeared God said – and termites appeared God said and bacteria appeared Most Christians call it creation – what does the SDA call it? God would not create creatures of (self) to begin with?Then please explain what the instinct of self-preservation comes from Why do you deny the animal’s kingdom ability to obey God? – go forth be fruitful and multiply D"God the Father is on His throne 24/7 – one of His expressions is as Christ is His image on earth R" So in your view, the Father walking on earth talking on earth, arguing on earth, is the Father YES Robert – all mainstream Christianity teaches the concept of God incarnateWhy not simply say to the Jews, I am the Father? Why didn't the Father expression simply say to the Jews I am the Father?He did – you are just not failure with scriptureJoh 14:8 Philip said to Him, “Master, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Joh 14:9 Yeshua said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time, and you haven’t come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Joh 14:10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own; but the Father dwelling in Me does His works. Joh 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—or at least believe because of the works themselves. Joh 8:57 Then the Judeans said to Him, “You’re not even fifty years old and you’ve seen Abraham?” Joh 8:58 Yeshua answered, “Amen, amen I tell you, before Abraham was, I am!” Exo 3:14 God answered Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. ” Then He said, “You are to say to Bnei-Yisrael, ‘I AM’ has sent me to you.” Why speak of being also a Son and cause the Jews to hate him?Because He was born into flesh as Jesus Christ – John 3:16 - DUH
Joh 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. W hy does this verse speak wrong of your view.It means that you do not grasp the idea that God Himself came to save you A Father on earth cannot support a Father in heaven, they are the same, Are they the same – one is on His throne in heaven and one is incarnate on earth www.pastortedwilson.org/questions-answers/what-is-the-adventist-churchs-stance-on-the-trinity/The second fundamental belief of the Seventh-day Adventist Church states the following: “The Trinity: There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension,www.adventist.org/trinity/We have to remember that God is not confined by time, space, or matter. God is beyond our human comprehension. God is the “High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity” (Isaiah 57:15). This is one of the mysteries of the Christian faith. If we, as human beings, could explain the existence of God, He would not be God. If we could totally understand the mysteries of God, He would not be worthy of our worship.I agree with your SDA doctrine - why donlt you?Instead you force the Godhead into something you can understand as biology (google) Incarnation, central Christian doctrine that God became flesh, that God assumed a human nature and became a man in the form of Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the second person of the Trinity. YES - mainstream Christianity - totally opposite from Robert's teaching
D"Your model says that there are place Your God is not allow – unwelcome – cannot go – or you can hide within – I reject this idea in its entirety Please explain Dave, your brevity again.
The umbra shadow is a place where light cannot enter because the pride of SIN blocks the light of GOD from entering. Is this an idea you reject?D" you teach there are places God cannot existR" Light can penetrate all corners of a room, so your statement is wrong. I do not teach this. D" God is omnipresent R" correct, I also teach this. Your model says that there are place Your God is not allow – unwelcome – cannot go – or you can hide within – I reject this idea in its entiretyAnd - with your contradictory statements it is hard to tell what you teachSuch a view is easily explained by science, physics and maths. Your model says that there are place Your God is not allow – unwelcome – cannot go – or you can hide within – I reject this idea in its entirety
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2021 15:48:40 GMT -5
Dave quotes the SDA words " If we, as human beings, could explain the existence of God, He would not be God. If we could totally understand the mysteries of God, He would not be worthy of our worship.
I agree with your SDA doctrine - why don't you?
R" Hmm? to me the only mystery about GOD is understanding love and how love functions? We humans do a lousy job of loving one another.
D"Your model says that there are place Your God is not allow – unwelcome – cannot go – or you can hide within – I reject this idea in its entirety
Umbra shadows are made by an object blocking lots of light entering a certain region. The physics draws line of rays of light defining the area, and explaining why the amount of light is reduced.
Sure some rays of light may enter there Dave, but the darkness of the umbra shadow is apparent. Are you that dull to say umbra shadows do not exist?
Sure light enters all areas of space. But I am demonstrating that umbra shadows are areas of darkness, not areas of light.
It is the relationships of the sinner to GOD that causes this problem. You walk away from GOD and the umbra shadows appear. Less power from God flows into your life.
D"I reject this idea in its entirety
R" Why do you reject the definition of sin, as explained in the umbra shadow ?
The umbra shadow is missing much light, the same problem the sinner has missing God's light flowing into his life.
I change my words slightly so you do not argue like nitpicking, sure light exists everywhere, I am explaining the term we call missing, which causes darkness.
Isa 45 speaks of light and darkness, as does 1 John, so I use shadow experiments to explain what creating RA (ie darkness) means and how this is done. Yet you "reject this idea in its entirety" Why? Why can't we use natural science to explain spiritual things?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 12, 2021 16:59:17 GMT -5
Dave quotes the SDA words " If we, as human beings, could explain the existence of God, He would not be God. If we could totally understand the mysteries of God, He would not be worthy of our worship.
R" Hmm? to me the only mystery about GOD is understanding love You force God to be small – man like – can’t be in two places at the same time You teach a god that not be worthy of our worship.- satan strong - satan forces god to react - your satan could rule all men and control their thoughts - but your god is unable Your god can't even depend on the loyality of angels specifically created to praise and serve Him
D"Your model says that there are place Your God is not allow – unwelcome – cannot go – or you can hide within – I reject this idea in its entirety Sure some rays of light may enter there Dave, - NOT THE DEFINITION OF UMBRA SHADOW Sure light enters all areas of space - NOT THE DEFINITION OF UMBRA SHADOW
Isa 45 speaks of light and darkness, as does 1 John, so I use shadow experiments to explain what creating RA (ie darkness) means and how this is done. Yet you "reject this idea in its entirety" Why? Why can't we use natural science to explain spiritual things? I never said we couldn’t – but you claim there are a location where the light of God can be blocked – a place to hide from God – where God is not allowed or even welcome – a place where God cannot go – cannot exist – is NOT a Biblical teaching This was my comment 2 years ago This was my comment last year And it is still my comment
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 14:29:37 GMT -5
D" Isa 45 speaks of light and darkness, as does 1 John, so I use shadow experiments to explain what creating RA (ie darkness) means and how this is done. Yet you "reject this idea in its entirety" Why? Why can't we use natural science to explain spiritual things? I never said we couldn’t – but you claim there are a location where the light of God can be blocked – a place to hide from God – where God is not allowed or even welcome – a place where God cannot go – cannot exist – is NOT a Biblical teaching This was my comment 2 years ago This was my comment last year And it is still my commentR" Oh so now you are agreeing with me, but your nitpicking over so precise we cannot agree if if my words seem a little strange to you? Sorry... Love covers over faults and mistakes Dave. So I write a little off , and make mistakes in my technical bits. The point is when you sin, the sin is a simile of darkness, and darkness comes in two common types, the pre-umbra darkness has some light coming is and some light not coming in, hence the love of GOD covers your sin and helps you walk closer to Him. The other darkness GOD's light doesn't enter at all (though some may) and so in the Umbra shadow state, you are deemed to no longer exist since you reject God's light and His power flowing through you. I hope this make sense to you so far. This is why the umbra shadows of darkness are created. These kinds of shadows cannot be formed naturally under super abundant light sources. Thus in order for a sinner to make a umbra Shadow, God has to change the functions of the light coming near the sinner, and this is why a MEDIUM came over the fallen world. DO you understand the function of a medium, and how mediums work? The mediums can make images bigger, smaller or even virtual. spiritualsprings.org/ss-760.htm(1) Mediums allow observations to be made (2) Mediums change perception. Highly recommend you read this study on medium functions of the Shadday. Thus the text where GOD creates RA as GOD allows darkness to be created, is about dealing with the sinner who wishes to observe his sinning. Therefore RA is a fruit/ consequence of sin, not some natural by product of matter or negative entropy as you claim. SHalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 13, 2021 14:48:26 GMT -5
R" Oh so now you are agreeing with me, I do not agree there is a location where God is not allowed or even welcome – a place where God cannot go – cannot exist – is NOT a Biblical teaching
So I write a little off , and make mistakes in my technical bits. To suggest that God is not omnipresent or less than omnipotent is NOT a technical bit
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2021 13:28:17 GMT -5
D"To suggest that God is not omnipresent or less than omnipotent is NOT a technical bit
R" I have never said GOD is NOT omnipresent or less than omnipotent, you assume the teaching of darkness and sin, is suggesting this idea?
D"I do not agree there is a location where God is not allowed or even welcome – a place where God cannot go – cannot exist – is NOT a Biblical teaching
R" I never said that GOD is not welcome there, God can go anywhere, into into the darkness, but for darkness to even exist, God doesn't go there? His light is withdrawn. After all God is light Scripture says, and darkness does not exist, so for darkness to exist, by logic, God must be absent from the place where sinning is. And by sinning I mean the umbra shadows, not the pre-umbra shadows, where the sinner truly has walked a long way away from GOD, not that God's light is walking a way from you.
You say this is anti - Biblical?
God hates RA, and RA is defined among many things as darkness. Why is earth void and cold and in the darkness? Because sinning cherubims are there.
Ps 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Who forgets God, the RA does, not God. Since you wish to remain away from GOD, the light remains away and so darkness appears.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; (KJV)
Aggelos - messengers - do you refuse to acknowledge the KJV ? Where does this idea come from? Ezekiel 28, so Peter didn't read this correctly I suppose?
The verse is saying if a messenger sins, it is cast into hell (earth) into darkness. That is why the earth was void and cold and in darkness.
Ac 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins,
This verse identifys darkness as belonging to the chief of sinners, the Opposer.
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
In the OT times it was supposed that good and evil (ra) came from the hand of God, and since GOD is the administrator of all things, including life and non-life, this idea is true. But Job is a special scroll that identifies the source of RA coming from GOD ( after all GOD creates RA) but only if provoked by the OPPOSER, who is the sinning agent, in Job. Thus it is the Opposer who tells God to remove His hedge of protection, and thus the Opposer empowers wicked humans to do RA upon Job.
Ps 82:5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
The earth foundations are out of course when darkness (ra) prevails.
Ps 107:14 He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and brake their bands in sunder.
God bring us out of darkness and the shadows of death (umbra shadow) , God can banish this condition only if you allow God to walk closer to you.
Isa 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Every human not with GOD, is far from GOD and thus blind. In fact we are described as sitting in darkness in umbra shadows inside a prison house.
What causes the prison house? Sin does. What is sin? A darkness like ra How is darkness created? God's light has to fail to enter this place, not because God's light can't enter, but because you the sinner, block God from entering. This is how umbra shadows are formed in the first place.
Does this make the sinner strong than God to block God's light? no, for God respects your free will of choice.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
God can even shine light out of darkness, BUT only if you wish God to do so.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Out of darkness into His light.
How is darkness made? The absence of light. Only way darkness is made.
And for those who seek to move away from GOD, what happens to them?
Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
The darkness of darkness for ever, where God's light ceases to exist forever, in other words you cease to exist.
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I suppose you didn't read the rest of my post:
The point is when you sin, the sin is a simile of darkness, and darkness comes in two common types, the pre-umbra darkness has some light coming is and some light not coming in, hence the love of GOD covers your sin and helps you walk closer to Him. The other darkness GOD's light doesn't enter at all (though some may) and so in the Umbra shadow state, you are deemed to no longer exist since you reject God's light and His power flowing through you.
I hope this make sense to you so far.
This is why the umbra shadows of darkness are created. These kinds of shadows cannot be formed naturally under super abundant light sources. Thus in order for a sinner to make a umbra Shadow, God has to change the functions of the light coming near the sinner, and this is why a MEDIUM came over the fallen world.
DO you understand the function of a medium, and how mediums work? The mediums can make images bigger, smaller or even virtual.
spiritualsprings.org/ss-760.htm
(1) Mediums allow observations to be made (2) Mediums change perception.
Highly recommend you read this study on medium functions of the Shadday.
Thus the text where GOD creates RA as GOD allows darkness to be created, is about dealing with the sinner who wishes to observe his sinning. Therefore RA is a fruit/ consequence of sin, not some natural by product of matter or negative entropy as you claim.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 14, 2021 14:55:27 GMT -5
D"To suggest that God is not omnipresent or less than omnipotent is NOT a technical bit R" I have never said GOD is NOT omnipresent or less than omnipotent Your UMBRA SHADOW idea teaches there is a location where there is no God – and God cannot enter D"I do not agree there is a location where God is not allowed or even welcome – a place where God cannot go – cannot exist – is NOT a Biblical teaching R" I never said that GOD is not welcome there, … by logic, God must be absent from the place where sinning is. And by sinning I mean the umbra shadows,
You say this is anti - Biblical?
Jer 23:24 Can anyone hide himself in places so secret that I will not see him? Do I not fill heaven and earth?” It is a declaration of Adonai.
Pro 15:3 The eyes of Adonai are everywhere, observing the wicked and the good.
D"I do not agree there is a location where God is not allowed or even welcome – a place where God cannot go – cannot exist – is NOT a Biblical teaching
Who forgets God, the RA does, - AGREED! = Entropy = ra = movement away from God
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; Aggelos - messengers - do you refuse to acknowledge the KJV ? Where does this idea come from? YEP – Jude also – the archon of Gen 6 – the Gimori / Neplilim – held in chains awaiting revelation 9 to be let loose again to plague mankind for 5 months Precept upon precept, line upon line – in complete agreement
2Pe 2:4 - do you refuse to acknowledge the KJV ? Where does this idea come from? Ezekiel 28, so Peter didn't read this correctly I suppose? If you doctrine is correct – then there is no satan to bother mankind – he/they are locked away
In the OT times it was supposed that good and evil (ra) came from the hand of God, and since GOD is the administrator of all things, including life and non-life, this idea is true. YES! – Judaism and mainstream Christianity, and me, still accept this as the truth today[/font] Rome and you teach this is not true – your satan has the power to change God’s Plan against God’s Will
But Job is a special scroll that identifies the source of RA coming from GOD ( after all GOD creates RA) The Book of Job does not support your idea that your satan opposes God – or is working against God -------------
I suppose you didn't read the rest of my post: The point is when you sin, the sin is a simile of darkness, and darkness comes in two common types, the pre-umbra darkness has some light coming is and some light not coming in, hence the love of GOD covers your sin and helps you walk closer to Him. The other darkness GOD's light doesn't enter at all (though some may) and so in the Umbra shadow state, you are deemed to no longer exist since you reject God's light and His power flowing through you. I hope this make sense to you so far. I understand – it is your SDA sermon Your SDA sermon does not replace scripture – it does not even supplement scripture It is a man-made sermon
This is why the umbra shadows of darkness are created R" I have never said GOD is NOT omnipresent or less than omnipotent Your UMBRA SHADOW idea teaches there is a location where there is no God – and God cannot enter You claim it is just a small insignificant detail When in fact it only plants a seed of doubt - just as you doubt there is One True God - and you doubt the spiritual nature of man - and all together you have the SDA Controversy with two gods and two kings
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 13:54:34 GMT -5
D"I do not agree there is a location where God is not allowed or even welcome – a place where God cannot go – cannot exist – is NOT a Biblical teaching
Who forgets God, the RA does, - AGREED! = Entropy = ra = movement away from God R" Well you have a problem, can sin exist or not, or does God continue to hold your hand while you are sinning? Please explain your view.
D"If you doctrine is correct – then there is no satan to bother mankind – he/they are locked away R" Not all Opposers of God are locked away on the earth, many are, some are not. Aftrer all SIN is something GOD wishes to expose for what SIN is, a place which GOD normally cannot allow, but allows to exist as darkness for a while, in order to expose SIN for what it is. Please explain your view, for you do NOT have a grand SIN problem as my view does.
D"Rome and you teach this is not true – your satan has the power to change God’s Plan against God’s Will R" you agree with me, that "In the OT times it was supposed that good and evil (ra) came from the hand of God, and since GOD is the administrator of all things, including life and non-life, this idea is true." BUT you do not like the idea that GOD has a grand SIN problem, and is dealing with that SIN problem. I do not buy into the idea you have that GOD created a universe intentionally with RA in it naturally. Such imperfection is not something GOD would create or allow to occur. You have missed something. You have missed that RA comes from sin. Fiction, yes even friction is RA, and simply walking is a process of going against God, was also cursed when Adam sinned. Have you not understood the cherubims, fly. This overcomes a friction problem. D"Rome and you teach this is not true – your satan has the power to change God’s Plan against God’s Will R" Please explain when a sinner sins, nothing changes with GOD, there is no change in the flow of power from GOD towards the sinner, in fact you say that GOD walks and talks to you while you are SINNING, so nice of GOD to be with you in the deepest state of SIN. Your view is not correct, so explain it to me, using Scripture.
Why we even have the Saviour seeking to look for the lost sinner, that implies the sinner has wandered away from God, and is therefore all alone. Let me guess the prodigall never left His Father, He Father stood by holding his hand while he playing the prostitute? I thought the sinner walked back towards GOD and the Father ran to meet him? Have you forgotten the message of the story you love? SO explain your view. Especially how GOD is near the sinner in his sin, a place you say cannot exist, that darkness has to be a place really close to the light, how it this possible. Can a candle exist in darkness? Does the darkness exist next to a candle? Come on Dave, get real with your theology?
D"The Book of Job does not support your idea that your satan opposes God – or is working against God R" Really? Why did the OPPOSER ask God to remove His hedge of protection around Job. What does a hedge do ? A hedge OPPOSERS the creatures who wish to enter, doesn't it?
D"It is a man-made sermon R" What a terrible thing to say? 1Jo 1:5 God is light, 1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light 1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness 1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, 1Jo 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.
THis verse can only be explained by the shadow experiment, and you say, John is not speaking of light and darkness?
1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Explain these verses than Dave, how can there be a SIN which is NOT unto death?
And like me, do not invent your own sermon.
D"Your UMBRA SHADOW idea teaches there is a location where there is no God – and God cannot enter R" Hmm? I wouldn't say, God cannot enter, but God is forced to obey the sinners free will, as the sinner blocks most of the light from God entering into his life. How else are shadows of darkness made Dave, if the light is not blocked from entering this area? Please explain.
D"you doubt the spiritual nature of man R" I do not. You have invented the idea that man has some eternal spirit of his own from eternity, explain that using Scripture.
D"and all together you have the SDA Controversy with two gods and two kings R" Well you have two gods and two kings also "Your Beast, serpent race and Satanas" is ONE KING and ONE chief god (false god/demigod) still a "god" and you also have GOD.
Explain how your view is not a Controversy, but mine is?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Dec 15, 2021 15:33:12 GMT -5
R" Well you have a problem, can sin exist or not, or does God continue to hold your hand while you are sinning? Please explain your view. You teach if God leaves you would die – now you question how God can be there where your alive So I have no idea how to satisfy you – you deny that man is an independent individual – you deny that man is spirit – so you present contradictory statements that just harm your credibility
D"If you doctrine is correct – then there is no satan to bother mankind – he/they are locked away R" Not all Opposers of God are locked away on the earth, many are, some are not Show me you data – show me your scripture - or are you making up stuff to justify your incorrect answers
Please explain your view, for you do NOT have a grand SIN problem as my view does The sin problem is man’s – it began with Eve – stop trying to pass the blame to another
D"The Book of Job does not support your idea that your satan opposes God – or is working against God R" Really? Why did the OPPOSER ask God to remove His hedge of protection around Job. What does a hedge do ? A hedge OPPOSERS the creatures who wish to enter, doesn't it? Sound like a request to me – why does your satan have to ask God permission? Why does you satan obey God’s wishes – but you say your satan opposes God You say you satan is sin – but you refuse to answer why it is a sin to obey God
Put up or shut up
And like me, do not invent your own sermon. D"Your UMBRA SHADOW idea teaches there is a location where there is no God – and God cannot enter R" Hmm? I wouldn't say, God cannot enter, but God is forced to obey the sinners free will, as the sinner blocks most of the light from God entering into his life. 1- I looked it up in the dictionary The umbra (Latin for "shadow") is the innermost and darkest part of a shadow, where the light source is completely blocked by the occluding body. 2- you teach your satan can block God out– you teach man can block God out IT IS NOT A CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH TEACHING – if anything it is satanic – again your satan stronger
D"and all together you have the SDA Controversy with two gods and two kings R" Well you have two gods and two kings also "Your Beast, serpent race and Satanas" is ONE KING and ONE chief god (false god/demigod) still a "god" and you also have GOD. Explain how your view is not a Controversy, but mine is? 1- The Best is not my King and I would never ever say that he is worthy of the king title 2- The Beast is not ONE – it is a race of biological beings 3- THEY are out real struggle – for they are the world and the worldly around us 4- the call is to be not of this world but long for the next 5- the beast was not created to serve and praise God then decide to oppose God - no evolution in heaven - and no evolution on the ground
When God makes a thing - it is created as is - there is no evolution!
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