D"
In one of your suggest videos from Walter Veith he absolutely declares there is no science that that can accommodate or validate the flood (which is a lie in itself) – then he presents Dr Walter Browns Hydroplate Theory
Evidently Walter Veith doesn’t consider it science eitherR" I would say regarding anything of the past, science cannot validate the past, because the past is past, and current science only observes the present time with experiments based on the present time. Hence the past is based on assumptions. This is true of anything in the past.
For example it is claimed robertt wrote 1564 posts on your forum pondering confusion? This is an assumption, not a fact because there is no way to prove this. Somebody else could have been writings those posts in the past, I could have given out my password and username to somebody else who thinks like I do in the past.
The same logic also applies to viewing evidence of a great flood, Evolutionists see evidence one way, and Creationists see the same evidence a different way, both are based on different assumptions. This is what Walter Veith is getting at.
D"
(google) Glen Jay Kuban is an American computer programmer and independent investigator from Brunswick, Ohio. He is known for his work in Paluxy River dinosaur footprints. Kuban became interested in studying dinosaur footprints in 1980 when he began studying the Paluxy River prints, which he had expected to be human.R"Why do you post this evidence of Glen Jay Kuban, when you
bagged the work of Don Patton who also worked as a geologist on the Paluxy River prints, capturing evidence of humans with dinosaur footprints?
It is rather rude to criticize a colleague on the same side as your view, presenting evidence for your view?
Which side are you on?
D"
NO SIR – STOP TAKING SIDES IN A WAR
All I care about is the EMPERICAL EVIDENCE and the same definition used by everyone – a standard approach – that can stand peer review
Things only happened one way – God’s way – I do not have to lie or make up facts to support God’s way – because all the real evidence will point only to God’s way
What is wrong with the TRURH or the FACTs?R" I am most sorry, you cannot mix God's truth into confusion so you ponder the confusion you like. Truth does not work in this way. I will give you a end of time prophecy regarding this idea:-
To the last of the church stages, before My Second Coming, Jesus writes to us living in the 2021 COV19 time....
Re 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
There are
not three stages of Christians,
only two God desires... hot or cold
Re 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
SO you either come over and become a Creationist or you stay and remain an Evolutionist.
D"
Please give me at least one source from the scientific community
what you have posted is contradictory to everything I have ever learned about geneticsR" That does not surprise me. Is God's word popular? No
Is God's words accepted by peer review science ? No
Again you fail to understand the tenets of Bible principles...
Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
The most popular religion presented in the world, supported by peer review science, will the Babylon, the religion of confusion, what the whole world follows, while the true religion of God is the least supported and followed, the straight way that few follow.
I have notice now in my workplace, I used to have 4 anti-vaccine people around me and now as we get closer to the date of Jan 1 2022, where mandatory jabs are required, all of my fellow workers have dropped out of the religion I support and they now follow the religion of the government.
My worker asked me, Rob why are you different? Is it because of the Internet evidence? I said no.
He asked me is it because of the Bible? I said yes. Scripture writes this prophecy
Re 13:11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
One day my government who was once a lamb and protected me with my different religion, soon speaks like a dragon, and no longer supports me, so now I am expected to drop my religion and support the religion of the government. I must stand and say no.
Two movies come to mind. The stand "sister 106 yr old Abigail". and Braveheart, "the warrior man William Wallace".
Evolution is a religion. Naturalism is also a religion, a byproduct of evolutionist ideas.
Creation is a religion, based on Young Earth Creationists, who support God's words.
Again consider the war in heaven. How many religions were in heaven ? two
Michael's view, and the Devil/Satan's view.
How many versions of this war are on earth? again two, but the Devil/Satan has marketed many versions of his deception. It's a ploy to keep humans trapped in His confusion.
D"
NO SIR –
God said – and there it appeared –
Each species - God said – and there it appeared – THAT IS CREATIONR" Where does it say the animals
just appeared and that is all,
remaining the same as they appeared?
Ge 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind,
Nope, not appeared "dasha" to come and grow, sprout, after their kind...
Ge 1:20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Let's visit Jeff Benner's translation of this:
1
Swarm ...Swarmer
2
and “Elohiym [Powers]” said, the water will swarm, swarmers of beings of life and flyers will fly upon the land upon the face of the sheet of the sky,
Reproduce and Increase
them saying, reproduce and increase and fill the water in the seas and the flyers increased in the land,
rabah Jeff now uses the meaning "increase". So does His lexicon dictionary
KJV uses the word for rabah as "multiply" as well as other English meanings.
Question: Does RABAH mean increase only in number, or also in varieties of number? Rabah, 211 verses, let's study what rabah means?
Ex 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
What is obvious, is the term relates to the increase of numbers over the earth, but here is a different meaning, the idea that difference kinds of signs and wonders occur, as well as a increase in the numbers of signs and wonders.
1Ki 10:10 And she gave the king an hundred and twenty talents of gold, and of spices very great store, and precious stones: there came no more such abundance of spices as these which the queen of Sheba gave to king Solomon.
Again miyn is used is a different context, to mean a great variety of spices, not a great number of spices, but the range of spice the Queen gave Solomon was huge.
Job 33:12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.
How would one translate this verse?
God can multiply more than man?
Ps 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity,
How would one translate this verse?
Wash (away) my multiples of guilt?
Isa 23:16 ... sing many songs,
Again the idea is not singing a large number of songs, as also a large variety of songs.
Isa 55:7 for God will abundantly pardon.
Again not pardon lots of sin, but a huge variety of sinning's
Da 12:4 ... and knowledge shall be increased.
Not just the number of knowing things, but also the variety of knowledge increases.
So I get from this Hebrew study that miyn means not just an increase in the number filling the earth, but also increase in the variety of variations filling the earth.
Dave you you agree or disagree with these verses? Does RABAH mean to increase only in number? Or can it also mean to increase in variety of number?
For example humans have within them different sytles of personality, why is that? 12 tribes of 4 major personality groups, why 12, why not 1, as you what rabah to mean?
For example God made EVE as a genetic clone of Adam, but she was not a personality clone, she was unique. The gender male has 23 chromosomes plus XY. The gender female had the same 23 chromosomes plus the XX. Because she had some missing, and some doubled up, she became a different personality of love to the man.
For example, are all human beings the same in features and personalities? Or is there variation in the increase of humans upon the earth, ie rabah?
D"
And then all the KINDS evolved upwardly to the current species we have today
Please explain to me why this is not evolutionR All the kinds RABAH "increased in a variation of species" to fill the land and adapt to various places.
define-----------
Evolution is the process of
making new information that intelligently benefits the organism, once the organism is living, so this
new information is developed ,
after as the organism lives, using natural means.
Creation is the process of allowing pre-existing information
to develop changes to the organism, as the Creator of that information desired, to suit the environment or changes to the environment, as the organism
could adapt and develop variety for, so this information is developed and written by the Creator from the beginning
before the organism was created.
-------------- there are differences in the define process
I suggest you listen to John Sanford
youtu.be/PHsu94HQrL0John Sanford on Down - Not Up 2-4-2012 (at Loma Linda University)
John Sanford, from Cornell University, is the inventor of the "gene gun" among other ways to get foreign genes into cells. His studies into genetics led him to conclude that natural selection was unable to purify the genome, let alone create new complex genetic designs. He also concluded that large, slowly breeding animals like humans and elephants could not last for millions of years without direct Divine intervention, and he is thus a short-age creationist. He wrote a book called Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome (2005) explaining his reasoning.The lecture goes for an hour and every minute is worth listening to.
This explains to you in simple terms the idea of evolution and it's opposite view, creation.
---------------------
I found this article which will also help you and your confusion, from Creation.com
creation.com/denis-alexander-hermeneuticsDenis Alexander’s hermeneutics: heretical, horrible, and harmful
by Gavin Cox
Published: 6 August 2020 (GMT+10)
Introduction
Denis Alexander (born 1945) is Emeritus Director of the Faraday Institute for Science and Religion at St Edmund’s College, Cambridge. He holds a PhD in Neurochemistry (Institute of Psychiatry, King’s College London), and worked as a molecular biologist in Britain and abroad. He is author of numerous books on science and faith, editor of Science and Christian Belief, and speaks publicly on the intersection between science and Christian theology. He is a passionate advocate of Darwinian evolution, and a harsh critic of ‘young earth’ creationism (YEC)—or as CMI prefers, ‘biblical creationism’. While a professing evangelical Christian, his books on science and faith deride the YEC position and reinterpret fundamental biblical theology through the lens of evolution (theistic evolution). As I aim to demonstrate, this makes his writings subversive and dangerous to unwary readers who are seeking biblical answers to questions of origins.
Two of his most theologically influential books, Creation or Evolution, do we have to choose? (2nd edition, 2014) and Is There Purpose in Biology: The cost of existence and the God of love (2018) have received general reviews by CMI. This article will not focus on Alexander’s scientific teaching, rather his theological views as exhibited in the latter books and also his Genes, Determinism and God (2017).1 The aim is to present a layman-friendly warning, regarding Alexander’s devious misuse of theology. Specifically, the way that he reads evolution into Scripture, as a starting assumption. Typical of theistic evolutionists, Alexander treats evolutionary history, rather than Genesis, as the higher authority, and evolution’s billions of years of death and suffering before the Fall as fact. The historical events of Creation and the Fall of a real Adam and Eve are treated as ‘allegorical’. This article critiques Alexander’s theological views in the light of Scripture showing that they are found wanting.
Genes, Determinism and God
When Alexander addresses theological issues, they are framed within the constraints of evolutionary theory as his starting assumption. For instance, the concept of humans created in God’s image is seen in cosmic evolutionary terms: “Like the universal background radiation that points to the Big Bang origins of our universe, the notion of humankind made in the image of God is constantly there in the background [of our genetic heredity] … ”2 Furthermore, “it is taken as read” that we need to accept evolutionary theory in order to understand “the theological notion of humankind being made in the image of God.”3 Thus he lays bare his a priori evolutionary assumptions as foundational to his thinking.
The person of Adam, receives meagre treatment, with his name appearing nine times in the entire volume.4 Alexander recognizes that Genesis 2 teaches that Adam was created in God’s image (imago Dei). However, Alexander suggests, the imago Dei is best understood as applying to all humanity, rather than one individual.5 Adam is not treated as an historical figure, rather the archetype of humanity. Evolution implies a continuum of development from ape-like ancestors up to modern humans, therefore the concept of a first human couple is lost in the mists of time. Evolution robs Adam and Eve of their unique status as the first humans created in God’s image; more on this will be said later. Alexander argues that because Adam is not historical, the imago Dei does not apply to an individual, but should be understood as a type of theological argument, called a polemic. He cites John Walton, who reasons that Adam as the image of God is a polemic against the Ancient Near Eastern (ANE) creation myths, which treated people as servants to the gods.6 To be made in God’s image, and given responsibility for Creation, is a promotion for humans, so Alexander says. However, this idea assumes Genesis is one of many beliefs competing within the ANE market-place of ideas—not the inspired Word of God, predating and refuting all other, later pagan beliefs.
When it comes to the concept of ‘mind’, Alexander sees this as purely a product of evolution. “Complexity and size of brain, tool use, culture and social practices, together seem to render it highly likely that the extinct hominins [supposed primitive human ancestors] who preceded us in evolutionary history must have had, if not exactly human free will, then something like it … ”7 For Alexander, people possessing the capacity to relate to God is thanks to the evolutionary process, rather than God’s sovereign act of Creation. He clarifies this idea further: “ …the idea of humankind made in the image of God as referring to the gradual evolutionary process, stretching back over millions of years, whereby the distinctively human neuronal capacities have emerged that enable moral sensibilities and religious practice. All that we know about evolution suggests that this is indeed the case and genetic variation has of course played a critical role in that story”.8 This idea of emergent ‘God awareness’ is completely at odds with the unique special creation of Adam and Eve as described in Genesis.
Regarding morality and free will, Alexander argues from genetics rather than Scripture. Revealingly, within the book’s 385 pages, ‘sin’ is mentioned but twice9, not within the context of Scripture, but from the perspective of a French novel on nature versus nurture. Alexander’s starting point is evolution, rather than Scripture. This has profound implications for his understanding of sin, judgment and God’s righteousness, which are all robbed of their power and made subservient to naturalistic thinking. These theological concepts receive their full treatment in the works reviewed below
Is there purpose in biology?
If evolution represents real earth history, then the ultimate purpose for biology cannot be the same as that taught in the Bible.
Surprisingly, Alexander has nothing to say about Adam in the 287 pages of this book. Chapter six, titled “Death, pain and suffering and the love of God”, lays bare the destructive influence of evolutionary ideology for biblical authority, inerrancy and right theology. Alexander recognizes there is “pain and death in biological processes.”10 He admits such things are ‘natural evils’, but dismisses them as being truly evil, being contingent on amoral animal instincts, rather than free moral choice. However, this says nothing to explain how God could describe animal suffering, death, and bloodshed as “very good” (Genesis 1:31). Alexander reasons that if a dog kills a child, the dog is not held morally responsible, but the owner is.11 But this is precisely why ‘natural evil’ is a huge problem within evolutionary thinking; theistic evolutionists have no adequate theodicy. (Theodicy refers to the vindication of God in view of the existence of evil). God is the ultimate Owner of Creation, and if He created using evolution, then He is directly responsible for all the horrors of death, pain and suffering of His creatures.
Alexander’s solution is to kick the problem into the long grass, with the excuse that death won’t be part of the New Creation. True, it won’t, but that raises the question as to why it won’t? The answer is never supplied by Alexander, but lies within the perfect nature of God (1 John 1:5) who is incapable of creating anything that is evil, or causes suffering and death. God is not the first cause of these things—sin is.
When Alexander addresses theological issues, they are framed within the constraints of evolutionary theory as his starting assumption.
Of course, Alexander recognizes Jesus’ ministry involved healing the sick, demonstrating that the coming Kingdom will be free of death and suffering. But if the Father created using evolution, with its accompanying death and suffering, why is the Son contradicting the Father’s will by defeating death and suffering? Evolution sets up an unsolvable dichotomy even within the Godhead. Duplicity becomes a divine attribute in Alexander’s scheme.
The practical reality of this error is exposed, when considering pastoral advice offered to those suffering from cancer, or other debilitating terminal illnesses. Alexander quotes philosopher Laura Ekstrom: “With respect to those offering theodicies to those enduring pain and loss, ‘Just shut up’, remains to my mind decent advice”, to which Alexander adds “Wise words indeed”.12 Those who compromise theodicy with evolution are the ones who should ‘just shut up’ for such bankrupt theology can never heal the hurting. Indeed, to build ethics on evolutionary foundations is a lost cause. If God really used evolution to create, then cancer, disease, death and suffering are all “very good.” That God is the first cause behind all human suffering is not a comforting message for the bereaved.
With evolution at the foundations, all accompanying theodicies are like houses doomed to destruction. Alexander surveys the various ideas which theologians have put forward to reconcile evolution and theodicy. Laying them out, with pure deism on one side and what he terms “total control” models on the other side. In between lie varying shades of heresy from ‘process theology’ and kenosis, which suggests God emptied Himself for the sake of His creation’s ‘freedom’. Such ideas represent full-frontal attacks on God’s sovereignty. God is likened to an explorer who doesn’t know where He will end up, or that Creation is an exercise in cosmic suck-it-and-see.13 But this is what evolution means: God tinkers with creation, hoping and waiting for a good end result. This is the opposite of the Almighty God of the Bible who speaks and a perfect Creation leaps into being.
If [God] the Father created using evolution, with its accompanying death and suffering, why is the Son contradicting the Father’s will by defeating death and suffering? Evolution sets up an unsolvable dichotomy even within the Godhead. Duplicity becomes a divine attribute in Alexander’s scheme.
Alexander critiques each theodicy in turn, but in so doing exposes the fatal flaw in his own thinking. Describing the creative spoken activity of both God (at Creation) and Jesus (His New Testament miracles) he states:
“There is never a hint … [that] these words of command entail any self-emptying on God’s part. Rather the opposite, creation for God doesn’t seem to entail any effort at all as far as Scripture is concerned”.14
This statement is only true if the account of Creation in Genesis is real history! But this is a far-cry from the billions of years of death, suffering and bloodshed involved in the evolution of life. These two concepts (biblical history and evolutionary history) are irreconcilable. Because of this, the ‘evolver god’15 and the Creator God of the Bible are fundamentally irreconcilable.
Scripture makes clear that Creation declares God’s qualities (Romans 1:20; Psalm 19:1–4). Alexander, appears to find this embarrassing, declaring “such passages … provide a fairly minimalist list … The main Purpose … is not to reveal … the character of God… ”16 In contradiction to Alexander’s position, the Apostle Paul says God’s ‘eternal power’, ‘divine nature’ and ‘glory’ are clearly revealed in Creation. Furthermore, Genesis 3 provides revelation as to why Creation is fallen, and marred by death and suffering. But according to Alexander “there is nothing in the biblical view of creation that suggests that God ‘designs’ … organisms … to do nasty things to other living things.”17 This is true, but it is also sly, ignoring the biblical origin of attack-defense structures as a result of the Curse upon Creation. Alexander’s ploy to let God off the hook is simply to state, “God is not like some heavenly engineer who goes around ‘designing’ things.”18 Alexander gives the example of parasites, which he reasons cannot teach us anything about God’s character. But this is only a given, when we recognize the Fall as an historic event, which Alexander does not.
This cosmic cop-out fails to address the root problem: All of these natural evils result from the Curse upon Creation in response to sin; they are not the direct first-cause of God’s very good creative power. In removing the actual, historical Fall from his theology, Alexander is forced to remove God from being Creator (in any meaningful biblical sense). Alexander’s solution to theodicy is akin to an army blowing-up their own bridges as they retreat—a wholesale destruction of biblical doctrine. Alexander quotes from Darwin, who wrote to his friend Asa Gray regarding natural evil’s implications for God’s goodness:
“ …But I own that I cannot see as plainly … evidence of design and beneficence on all sides of us. There seems to me too much misery in the world. I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidæ [wasp parasite] with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of caterpillars, or that a cat should play with mice …”19
However, Darwin was describing a fallen world, marred by sin, not the original very good Creation of God. Remove the Fall, and all hopes of a consistent and true theodicy are lost. When it comes to who really is responsible for ‘natural evil’, Alexander is quite forthcoming in his heresy: “God really is ultimately responsible for all the ‘biological evils’ of the world (but not the moral evils arising from human free will) … ”20
Like the sarcastic monkey image, this book winks at the historical realities of Creation, Adam and Eve, and the Flood, and pours scorn upon all who hold an historic understanding of Genesis 1–11.
Creation or evolution, do we have to choose?
Of the three books reviewed here, Creation or evolution … , is by far the most theologically dense, and at over 500 pages in its second edition, represents Alexander’s theological tour de force of theistic evolutionary thought. Inevitably, there is some overlap in theological themes with Is there purpose in biology?
Adam and original sin
Alexander considers that humanity cannot be descended from one couple, Adam and Eve. This leads him to deny outright fundamental biblical doctrines, including original sin, which places him outside the evangelical camp. He states, “the idea of a single couple who somehow transmitted their sin by inheritance to the whole of humanity cannot be sustained …”21 Alexander thinks in terms of a founder-population, of around 10,000 individuals, to whom God revealed Himself, and these, in turn, rejected His revelation.
Alexander recognizes that Augustine, of all the Church Fathers, was most succinct in describing the doctrine of original sin. However, he thinks Augustine’s theology needs to be “adjust[ed] if it is to become consistent with both Scripture and science.”22 Alexander suggests correcting one of the greatest theological minds in history, and by extension 1700 years of church doctrine, in the light of evolutionary presuppositions. Alexander’s arrogance is astonishing. Furthermore, he considers the “overwhelming” genetic evidence for a “significant population already in existence” at the time of Cain and Abel “subvert
Augustine’s interpretation on this point [of original sin].”23 Alexander’s interpretation of Romans 5:12 is particularly spurious where he describes the death that resulted from Adam’s sin as merely “spiritual”. No, death is real and physical. It cannot be separated from sin, which represents spiritual death. Alexander’s attempt to separate both, rings hollow. The Apostle Paul is quite clear on this point—physical death spread to all people, through sin, which means spiritual death. Sin and death, really is a package-deal.
Adam, death and Christ’s atonement
Alexander tries, but fails, to divorce the link between Adam’s sin leading to physical (and spiritual) death and Christ’s physical death upon the cross to atone for the sins of a fallen world. He states, “we should find in the New Testament an emphasis on Christ dying for the sin of Adam. That emphasis is not only lacking, the idea itself is not even mentioned.”24 Because Alexander is blinded by his evolutionary presuppositions, he fails to recognize how such truth is foundational. He asks, “Why should Christ’s physical death be so essential for his work on the cross?” He rightly sees that a key understanding of Christ’s death is its fulfilment of the Old Testament (OT) animal sacrificial system. He then states the “very first” OT sacrifice was made by Noah after the Flood (Genesis 8:20): “So the idea of sacrifice dealing with a curse arising from human sin arises very early in the biblical account.”25
However, Alexander fails to notice that sacrifice occurs much earlier in history than Noah. Genesis 4:4 records the first sacrifice by a human of an animal. Abel brought a first-born lamb from his flock as an offering, which God ‘respected’. But how was Abel to understand such an act would be respected by God? We need to look to the first implied animal death recorded in Scripture, which was an act of God to clothe Adam and Eve’s nakedness with animal skins (Genesis 3:21)—which would have necessitated the shed blood of one or more animals, possibly lambs. This sacrifice was performed after the Curse was spoken over Adam and Eve’s sin, and the proclamation of the protoevangelium (first gospel proclamation), which promised the Seed of the woman would conquer the Serpent (Genesis 3:15). This is ultimately fulfilled in Christ, the sacrificial Lamb of God. The word ‘atonement’ (Hebrew kafar) means ‘covering’, and is used throughout the Levitical sacrificial system to describe God’s response to the shedding of blood. That Jesus’ atonement is the fulfilment of biblical salvation history, Alexander cannot deny. By overlooking the creation account, Alexander cuts the theological roots from the tree, for within Eden’s earth the doctrine of blood atonement and Messianic sacrifice is planted and grown.
Alexander’s evolutionary tunnel vision reveals why he denies the link between Adam’s sin, death and Christ’s atonement: “But as far as the consequences of Adam’s sin is concerned, given that the New Testament does not seem to link Christ’s sacrificial death to the supposed physical death resulting from Adam’s sin, then there is no need for us to do so either.”26 An astonishingly glib dismissal of fundamental doctrine indeed! Romans 5:14–21 speaks precisely of what Alexander says is missing in terms of the link between Adam, death and Christ’s atonement. It is spiritual blindness on Alexander’s part not to acknowledge the obvious connection. Rather, when he senses that he can’t adequately defend his position, he turns to attack his critics, evidenced by this arrogant statement: “Those [YECs] who deny the reality of physical pain, disease and death before the fall are like ostriches with their heads in the sand. The reality will not go away.”27 Despite Alexander’s protestations, Scripture is crystal clear: Death (both spiritual and physical) came as a result of Adam’s sin. The need to atone by blood is rooted in this historical fact, and is the foundation of all that follows in Scripture, fulfilled in the ultimate atoning sacrifice made by the Creator who became our Saviour.
Evolution’s package deal—natural evil plus theodicy
“Once we have carbon, phosphorous [etc.] … synthesized in the dying moments of exploding stars, then this is the package we’re likely to get given…” Alexander’s flippant phrase ‘likely to get given’ reduces human suffering to the whims of cosmic roulette.
Back to the million dollar question, Alexander asks: “how a good God could choose to bring about [life] … by such a long and wasteful process that involves so much death and suffering?”28 To answer this, Alexander starts not with Scripture, but with evolution. Pain is part of the “package deal” of how God created: “Once we have carbon, phosphorous [etc.] … synthesized in the dying moments of exploding stars, then this is the package we’re likely to get given …”29 Alexander’s flippant phrase ‘likely to get given’ reduces human suffering to the whims of cosmic roulette. Gone are all concepts of God’s sovereignty.
Alexander lists six essential categories for life in terms of their positive and negative aspects. For instance, bacteria, are essential to life, but can also kill us. Recycling of biological cells (apoptosis) is essential for growth, but its dysfunction leads to deadly cancer. He calls this balance of good and bad the ‘package deal’ of biology.30 But this package deal is what we observe now, in a fallen world. The ‘package deal’ is the cursed hand31 Adam chose when he rebelled against God, not what was originally given in creation, which God called “very good”.
Alexander’s biblical definition of death is false because he fails to acknowledge the biblical definition of life. For instance, his definition of death includes apoptosis, and organic food chains, involving break-down of micro-organisms, etc.—all of which were vital components of the original perfection. So, if Alexander is going to use this modern scientific definition of life vs. death, it is little wonder he rejects any notion of the pre-Fall Paradise with no death. Alexander’s definition is completely unsustainable from a biblical perspective.
Alexander states, “there is never any indication that there was no physical death or eating of meat before the fall.”32 He flatly rejects the plain teaching of Genesis that God gave only plants for man and animals to eat (Genesis 1:29–30; 2:16), blindly asserting, “it is unlikely that this text refers to vegetarianism.”33
Thus, Alexander includes the eating of plants in his definition of death.34 Clearly, Scripture makes distinctions between the different creatures God made. Air breathing animals with blood, are defined as ‘living creatures’, Nephesh chayyāh (Genesis 9:3–4). Creatures that do not come under this category include plants, and likely, invertebrates such as insects, as well as microscopic creatures on down to bacteria and viruses. Although all these (excluding viruses) would be classified as ‘alive’ biologically from a modern scientific perspective, Scripture would not view them as ‘nephesh-life’ in the same way as it does for higher orders of animals. Alexander fails exegetically at this point because he refuses to read Scripture in the light of Scripture. Instead, he insists on reading into the Bible (eisegesis) a modern, scientific definition of life, which is precisely what he falsely accuses YECs of doing.35 In so doing he rejects the clear teaching of Paul, that death came by Adam (Romans 5:12–21; 1 Corinthians 15:22–50).
For Alexander, we are not so much children of the Heavenly Father as we are children of the heavenly stars. He reasons that without a “particular resonance, no carbon would have been made in the stars and we would not be here. But arguably not only carbon-based life, but also carbon-based pain, suffering, disease and death are written in… Biology really is a package deal.”36 Alexander’s package deal mentality directly incriminates God with causing his creatures to suffer all the agonies of death. This is the ‘evolver god’ of Alexander. For him, death, bloodshed and suffering have nothing to do with the Fall, sin, or the Curse—it’s how God allowed life to evolve. It means all this horror is directly God’s responsibility. This is probably one of the greatest slanders against God’s good character that can be raised against Him by His creatures.
Alexander’s theodicy utterly fails to vindicate divine providence in view of the existence of evil—it vilifies Him!
Pain and death before the Fall?
Alexander thinks it arbitrary to believe that Adam’s Fall accounts for death and suffering. He poses the example of a deep sea fish, asking why it is suffering for the sake of Adam’s sin, far away on land?37 But Scripture has something to say about Adam and the fish (Genesis 1:26). This verse describes a three-way relationship between: the Creator, Adam as Creation’s federal head, and creation, which includes fish. That relationship was marred because of Adam’s transgression, and so the Curse for disobedience effected Adam and all creation, including fish. Because of that disruption, God has promised those relationships will be restored in the New Creation, a reversal of the effects of the Fall (Revelation 22:3). However, if this was how the system was originally created, using evolution, then God is directly responsible for the suffering of His creatures, even including the fish.
Alexander testifies that, as he learned about fossils and genetics, he came to the conclusion: “death and disease had always been present in living things. So I went back to the Bible and was quite surprised to find that in any case there was no evidence at all for the kind of Milton’s Paradise Lost type imagery of the pre-fall state upon which I had been raised.”38 On the contrary, Alexander saw what he wanted to see. He clearly defers to the wisdom of the age to reinterpret Scripture to make it fit the thinking of men.
No pain, no gain?
The issue of whether there was no pain before the Fall is more subjective, and Alexander exploits Scripture’s silence on the subject to his advantage. He recognizes pain is a vital protective mechanism in the bodies of more complex animals but assumes the evolution of the nervous system over millions of years, to account for pain sensing. This means he fails to distinguish the ability to feel pain (as means of protection) from external sources of pain (including psychological pain) that are due to the Curse; for example the pain of losing a loved one from cancer or a debilitating disease, not to mention the physical and mental pain of the disease sufferers themselves. Clearly, the former is a good protective design feature, the others are tragic effects of the Fall. Such distinctions have profound theological implications, which Alexander fails to distinguish, being willfully blinded by his evolutionary presuppositions.
God delegated responsibility to Adam, stewardship of Creation for the benefit of people and the planet—the Creation Dominion Mandate (Genesis 1:28). However, when Adam sinned, the Curse made this task impossible, meaning Adam’s race would never fully alleviate the effects of the Fall. Jesus succeeded where the first Adam failed. As the Last Adam, Jesus fully represented man before his Creator, and demonstrated the Kingdom of God when he fed the hungry, healed the sick and raised the dead. This was a temporary restoration of what had been marred by the First Adam. Creation will be eternally restored in the New Creation, where death itself will be done away with eternally (Revelation 21:1–6). Alexander acknowledges this, in part, but fails to recognize that the Kingdom is pictured in Revelation as a restored Edenic Paradise, where the effects of the Fall will be done away with.39 Alexander is the embodiment of the old proverb: “there’s none so blind as those who will not see.”
To be, or not to be—cursed?
Alexander’s exposition of Genesis 3 concerning Eden’s tree of life, the knowledge of good and evil, and Satan as the serpent, are basically sound, recognizing their accompanying symbolism. This is one reason why Alexander’s hermeneutics are dangerous, because at many points in his book, he argues ‘like’ an evangelical. He does not believe in the historical truth of the Genesis Creation account, but he correctly understands that by eating the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve were exercising moral choice outside the will of God. It is at this point sin entered God’s perfect creation. However, how does any of this mean anything if big-picture evolution40 actually occurred over millions of years of earth history? It’s either all true, or none of it is true. Alexander attempts to cast doubt on the traditional understanding of death entering through sin by stating that Adam and Eve didn’t drop dead on the day they ate the forbidden fruit, hence their death can only be understood as ‘spiritual’.41
The grammatical context of Genesis 2:17 entails that the words “in the day” (Hebrew for day, yom) means “when”, rather than conveying a 24-hour day. The doubled Hebrew use of the word “to die” makes the death sentence absolute, literally “in dying, die”, which was fulfilled in Genesis 5:5 when Adam died at 930 years. Alexander’s claim that Adam only ‘died spiritually’ when he ate the fruit is refuted at Genesis 5:5, which is the outworking of the Curse; Alexander’s theistic evolution is incompatible with the Fall and Curse. Adam eventually died physically as a result of sin, but not on the same day he ate the forbidden fruit. Alexander is willing to concede that, “on the day they died spiritually, they also came under the sentence of physical death, which was to happen later, although the text itself does not demand such a gloss.”42 That Alexander should call a fundamental doctrine such as the origin of death “a gloss” is astounding. The text is categorical: the sentence of physical death was passed as a result of sin, the verbal command which he dismisses as a gloss came from the very mouth of God! In fact, Alexander’s flippancy at this point is borderline blasphemy.
Moreover, he is blatantly incorrect to state, “God curses not them [Adam and Eve] but the serpent (3:14) and through Adam, the ground (3:17).”43 This is wilful ignorance, because Genesis clearly indicates that both Adam and Eve came directly under the Curse. For Eve, childbirth would be with sorrow (Genesis 3:16), and women would become subject to their husbands. For Adam, his work would be with sweat and toil (Genesis 3:17–19a), and both would eventually die (Genesis 3:19b).
Regarding childbirth, Alexander tries to claim that “women certainly knew all about the pain of childbearing prior to that time … suggested by …
the Hebrew term rabah meaning ‘increase’ or ‘multiply’ ”44 Alexander is only certain of this, because of his a priori belief which colours his entire thinking. Evolution would mean Eve was not the first woman, but untold generations before her all likewise travailed in pain. Alexander’s notion is absent from the Hebrew grammar.45 English translations state that God “will surely multiply your pain…” in response to Eve’s sin, and are not teaching a description of normal past conditions (see Pain in childbirth: result of the Fall or fear?).
Alexander is tacitly admitting evolution was never part of the Christian world-view, if it has to be ‘baptized in’.
To escape the inevitable consequence of death that came as the result of Adam’s sin, Alexander states the following: “The reminder to the man that he would return ‘to the dust’ (verse 19) seems not to be a consequence of his disobedience… Adam is destined to return to the earth anyway.”46 As we have already seen, this is a complete denial of the plain reading of Scripture, where God categorically states death was a consequence of Adam’s disobedience.
Baptize evolution into your faith!
Alexander is guilty of reading evolution into the Bible and trying to force-fit his theology accordingly. He states: “Running through the text is an evolutionary narrative thread, which describes how God brought biological diversity into being and continues to sustain it all moment by moment.”47 This ‘narrative thread’ is entirely in his imagination. He makes a stunning admonition to justify his unsubstantiated and blatant eisegesis: “Once we have baptized evolution into our Christian worldview… we will see [it no longer as] the sinister intruder, or the ‘universal acid’… but rather as the process that God has chosen… to bring into being all the amazing biological diversity that we see all around us.”48 In other words, embrace error as your friend, and you will no longer see error as the enemy. Alexander is tacitly admitting evolution was never part of the Christian world-view, if it has to be ‘baptized in’ (his sacrilegious language at this point is quite unpalatable). Alexander’s creation theology is entirely foreign to the Scriptures, as is his theodicy and theology of God. Alexander’s ideas are weighed in the balance and found wanting, and so must be rejected outright.
Conclusion
Evolution, for Dr Denis Alexander, is the lens through which he reads Scripture, and everything is coloured by it. Billions of years of death are required as evolution’s creative driving force—all prior to the Fall of Adam and Eve. Such thinking is a fundamental denial of the Fall, a renunciation of the omnipotence of God’s creative abilities, and a disavowal of God’s goodness in creation, which was not marred by death, suffering or bloodshed prior to sin.
Alexander’s theology can be likened to the Lernaean Hydra of Greek mythology—cut one head off and two more sprout up to take its place. The kindest thing for a doctrine that grows two arguments for every one refuted, is, like the fate of the serpent Hydra of old—burn it to the ground. Alexander’s poisonous brand of theistic evolution (and similar compromises) are only fit for cremation—roots, fruits, branches and all. Reading his books, Alexander really does seem to speak at times with a forked tongue. If that sounds too strong, consider that, like the serpent of Eden, we have seen many instances where Alexander is essentially tempting his readers with the subtle words, “Did God really say?” (Genesis 3:1). Yes, God really did say!
It is to be hoped that this article may act as a strong warning. Alexander’s theology includes much that is heresy; beware of his insidious compromise, which represents a clear and present danger to unwary Christians who may not have strong biblical foundations. Many have read Alexander’s works. Some will have been confirmed in their rank unbelief and rejection of Scripture’s clear revelation regarding Creation. Sadly, others will have had the foundations to their faith eroded by his subtle, sly, and deceitful arguments against the historical account of origins as set forth in Genesis. In the final analysis, such hermeneutics are indeed heretical, horrible and harmful.
Shalom
