Post by Dave on Sept 20, 2021 13:47:13 GMT -5
Robert asked me to watch a video called – the ‘Fire that Consumes’
But he posted no link – or any help as to source
I found the video - Lecture - Edward Fudge - The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of Hell - youtu.be/oHUPpmbTOV4
and bought the book – it is 32 pages long
The Fire That Consumes
the-fire-that-consumes-a-biblical-and-historical-study-of-the-doctrine-of-final-punishment-3rd-edA Biblical and Historical Study of the Doctrine of Final Punishment
Edward Fudge
Pg. 26 The worldwide restudy of the biblical doctrine of final punishment
01:35 – View #1 – the fire that torments forever
Not a Jewish view – not a Gnostic view – not a Presbyterian view
He argues against the Baptist only – but he says it is the predominate view?
pg. 27 What about a growing doubt concerning the idea that God, who gave his Son to die for sinful human beings, will keep billions of those same people alive forever, only to torment them without end
Only Baptist teach this
21:20 Every image of the end of the wicked = a consuming fire
Agreed – it is called the Lake of Fire -
21:40 he quotes The Book of Judith 16:17 – is that in the KJV Canon?
27:20 NT views of the wicked - agrees with ahl
34:20 “Eternal is a Quality’
Greek Disagreement – he says that
aion = age – I accept that – it means ‘a period of time’ used in many ways
aionios = eternity – I do not accept that – it is the product of the Roman edit
Who edited the agl - Rome
Who is the author of all the original accepted Greek to English Lexicons – Rome
Only within NT Greek Lexicons does aionios means eternal
Everywhere else in Greek it simples means – ages (dative plural – i.e. dative case goes with prepositions)
In the ages – into the ages – the ages to come – the ages that have passed
295 time within the ahl + agl is the term “For ever’
295 times it is translated for the Greek aion – for an aion = for ever
53 times in the NT it = for an aion
17 times in the Greek Nt we have the phrase – FOR EVER AND EVER
Every time is comes from the Greek aion + aion
aion = Greek for an age
aion + aion = for and age and an age
aionios = aion (pl in the dative case) ages(pl) – no more no less – the implication of eternal is a Roman addition
102:15 he says – Mat 25:46 eternal punishment = the same length as = eternal life
He must deny the Lake of Fire where his wicked are cast in the end
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne, and the One seated on it. The earth and heaven fled from His presence, but no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead—the great and the small—standing before the throne. The books were opened, and another book was opened—the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what was written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Sheol gave up the dead in them. Then they were each judged, each one of them, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Sheol were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
102:40 – He speaks – and has always been speaking – of only two types of Christians
the saved and the lost
Pg. 30 It is always tempting to read into Scripture what we wish.
Pg. 30-31 This danger is ever-present regarding any subject, but it hovers over a study of hell
like some bird of prey
Agree – the more information you have the more you understand the bigger picture
Rethinking Hell: Apostasy or New Reformation? - This view of hell most motivates sinners to repent?
YEP – 100% Baptist – believe or you will burn in hell fire
Pg. 31 We also need to avoid the danger of thinking we have discovered new truth never known
or taught before.
YES – back to the original – that Christ did not come to change - nope not one letter
But Rome clearly has
Pg. 32 To a church often dominated by mass-media pastors, magazine editors, parachurch
organizations, and free-lance interpreters, these words carry timely wisdom, and we
ought to give them careful attention.
Precepts of men
Even true prophets are subject to discerning by other spiritual people (1 Cor 14:29; 1 Thess 5:20–21), and many false prophets are in the world (1 John 4:1).
This is his only reference to the Spiritual Christian – the Born Again – the First fruits
What of the believers that are the First resurrection?
How important, therefore, that we test everything by Scripture,
always remembering that we are not the first to do so, and that we do not read Scripture
in isolation apart from the people of God.
ABSOLUTEY AGREE – VERY GNOSTIC – VERY SCRIPTURAL
But he posted no link – or any help as to source
I found the video - Lecture - Edward Fudge - The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of Hell - youtu.be/oHUPpmbTOV4
and bought the book – it is 32 pages long
The Fire That Consumes
the-fire-that-consumes-a-biblical-and-historical-study-of-the-doctrine-of-final-punishment-3rd-edA Biblical and Historical Study of the Doctrine of Final Punishment
Edward Fudge
Pg. 26 The worldwide restudy of the biblical doctrine of final punishment
01:35 – View #1 – the fire that torments forever
Not a Jewish view – not a Gnostic view – not a Presbyterian view
He argues against the Baptist only – but he says it is the predominate view?
pg. 27 What about a growing doubt concerning the idea that God, who gave his Son to die for sinful human beings, will keep billions of those same people alive forever, only to torment them without end
Only Baptist teach this
21:20 Every image of the end of the wicked = a consuming fire
Agreed – it is called the Lake of Fire -
21:40 he quotes The Book of Judith 16:17 – is that in the KJV Canon?
27:20 NT views of the wicked - agrees with ahl
34:20 “Eternal is a Quality’
Greek Disagreement – he says that
aion = age – I accept that – it means ‘a period of time’ used in many ways
aionios = eternity – I do not accept that – it is the product of the Roman edit
Who edited the agl - Rome
Who is the author of all the original accepted Greek to English Lexicons – Rome
Only within NT Greek Lexicons does aionios means eternal
Everywhere else in Greek it simples means – ages (dative plural – i.e. dative case goes with prepositions)
In the ages – into the ages – the ages to come – the ages that have passed
295 time within the ahl + agl is the term “For ever’
295 times it is translated for the Greek aion – for an aion = for ever
53 times in the NT it = for an aion
17 times in the Greek Nt we have the phrase – FOR EVER AND EVER
Every time is comes from the Greek aion + aion
aion = Greek for an age
aion + aion = for and age and an age
aionios = aion (pl in the dative case) ages(pl) – no more no less – the implication of eternal is a Roman addition
102:15 he says – Mat 25:46 eternal punishment = the same length as = eternal life
He must deny the Lake of Fire where his wicked are cast in the end
Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne, and the One seated on it. The earth and heaven fled from His presence, but no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead—the great and the small—standing before the throne. The books were opened, and another book was opened—the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what was written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Sheol gave up the dead in them. Then they were each judged, each one of them, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14 Then death and Sheol were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
102:40 – He speaks – and has always been speaking – of only two types of Christians
the saved and the lost
Pg. 30 It is always tempting to read into Scripture what we wish.
Pg. 30-31 This danger is ever-present regarding any subject, but it hovers over a study of hell
like some bird of prey
Agree – the more information you have the more you understand the bigger picture
Rethinking Hell: Apostasy or New Reformation? - This view of hell most motivates sinners to repent?
YEP – 100% Baptist – believe or you will burn in hell fire
Pg. 31 We also need to avoid the danger of thinking we have discovered new truth never known
or taught before.
YES – back to the original – that Christ did not come to change - nope not one letter
But Rome clearly has
Pg. 32 To a church often dominated by mass-media pastors, magazine editors, parachurch
organizations, and free-lance interpreters, these words carry timely wisdom, and we
ought to give them careful attention.
Precepts of men
Even true prophets are subject to discerning by other spiritual people (1 Cor 14:29; 1 Thess 5:20–21), and many false prophets are in the world (1 John 4:1).
This is his only reference to the Spiritual Christian – the Born Again – the First fruits
What of the believers that are the First resurrection?
How important, therefore, that we test everything by Scripture,
always remembering that we are not the first to do so, and that we do not read Scripture
in isolation apart from the people of God.
ABSOLUTEY AGREE – VERY GNOSTIC – VERY SCRIPTURAL