R" You are so, so , so wrong my friend, so far into doubting and off track.
A little search and I found this, and I didn't expect such a barrage of truth for my defence
Dr Don Patton also affirms the NT and OT as the common received text was copied many times by the Essenes in the Dead Sea Scrolls, affirming the 66 books we have, and fragments confirm all 65 books in 50AD, the 66th book of Revelation was added later, but not in the dead sea scrolls. So go figure. Nothing to do with Rome at all.
This is a lieThe religious community with be in a buzz about this – so please provide documentationDon Patton makes a living by misrepresenting science – a scientific buffoon
You could not defend his words – because no one can
For him to also lie about scripture does not surprise me
The first phase in the canonization of Paul’s Epistles was completed by the apostle Paul himself,beginning in 63 AD. (A Faithful Version)
Big difference between started and completed
One source says Paul started in 63 AD – Don Patton says it was complete in 50 ADEver hear of Marcion’s heretical “New Testament? Of 140ADYour Received text has 7,342 margin notes in the 1611 King James Bible,What are marginal notes in the Bible?
The marginal notes of Greek and Latin manuscripts are annotations of all kinds, chiefly the results of exegetical and critical study, crowding the margins of these copies and printed texts far more than those of the manuscripts and editions of the original Hebrew.
What are marginal notes in the Bible? - opinions / edit / and indicates the total numeber of differences between the 100s of agl copies complied to make yput Recieved TextDid you know that the bible was made up of around 80 books when the bible was first translated from Latin to English by the Vatican in 1611? However, 14 books were voted for removal in 1684. These books revealed some differences to todays bible such as Jesus’ name is spelled IESUS and pronounced Yahashua and many revelations from the “Wisdom of Solomon”, where it appears he talked of Jesus, despite Jesus not being around until 800 years after he died! That messes with the history just a little….
In the year 1611 the Bible was translated from Latin into English. Back then the Bible contained a total of 80 books and the last 14 books, which today have been excluded, made up the end of the Old Testament and were as follows:
1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, The rest of Esther, The Wisdom of Solomon, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch with the epistle Jeremiah, The Songs of the 3 Holy children, The history of Susana, bel and the dragon, The prayer for Manasses, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees
In 1684 all of these books were removed from all versions except for a 1611 edition, which was the very first edition translated into English.Why is the catholic Bible different than the Protestant Bible?
Why – as a Protestant – you have never studied the Jewish concept of resurrection of the soul
Laid out in the Maccabees 150 years before Jesus Walked among them
What is the significances of the Temple being rededicated to YHWY just before Jesus was born?
You are missing out on history and scriptureRp " In you so called discussion of darkness, with your Vallenius Trinity, of LIGHT, DARKNESS and SPIRIT.
Einstein says darkness does not exist in the presence of light. Bingo, your logic is false.
D " QUOTE ME OR SHUT UP YOU HONEST MAN!
R" Sorry Dave, perhaps you can answer my questions from this Vallenius Trinity, of LIGHT, DARKNESS and SPIRIT?
Is darkness a part of the Valentinus Trinity? I have posted the link before.
You are just trying to change the subject – of topicI said – the concept of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost was from valentines
This is a commonly accepted truth by all who study such thingsD" Tell us the steps we must take each day so that we do not lose our salvation
You are allowed to teach doubt here – doesn’t mean anyone will buy it
We all trust in our salvation!
R" Oh maybe I have something wrong?
How can you so easily be assured of our salvation?Ok – change of tone – you have frustrated me to no end with your inability to discuss intelligently without falling into assumptions and doctrine to validate your view- you have not been studying scripture with me – you have been pushing your doctrine on me – there is a difference
But you have asked the one question that changes everything
How can you so easily be assured of our salvation?
Your local corner church is a good place to start.
You have to check in – and begin
After that we are to learn and grow and witness for the sole reason to generate fruit – other believers
Instead – people check in – and listen to the Kool-Aide instead of studying the word of God
People do not have to study – who likes homework! The preacher will spoon feed them.
Problem – if I am the only voice (preacher) you ever learn from – you do not learn to think for yourself – you just learn to think like me. John Shoemaker was a wonderful Christian man in his 80s – been coming to that same church for 40 years. But in a church board meeting if you ask him – who do you think John
You could watch him defer to the Pastor – what do I think – tell me what to I think – what is the right answer.
How can you so easily be assured of our salvation?I will speak as a Gnostic – because it was there that I found the answer for myself
What is your reaction – if I call you a silly girl? Do you feel threatened or amused?
What if – someone says to you – your name is Fred?
What if I said to you – you are a little boy age 9?
Do you feel threatened or amused?
Answer – you probably laughed at me – why – because you KNOW the truth
If I call you lazy – you might be defensive because in there is a ring of truth?
If you are asked to deny Christ or lose your head – would you gladly stick it out far to make it easy
And feel the joy of your witness and how it “might” affect another – maybe even 20 yrs later
I will say I would – but the truth is we will never know until it happens – huh?
As a Christian I should stand in a burning plane helping the elderly and children to safety
But my body says get out – save yourself – NOW
Years ago a man walking into an Amish School House and shot 11 girls to death – then himself
Many folk turned out with food and gifts for the grieving Amish families
The Amish men gather a bunch of it together and took it to the widow of the murderer
The gunman’s widow asked why would they do that?
Well she also suffered a loss – and might need a friend as well
That story witnessed to millions of people
Reporter came to interview the Amish – to the Amish mother of two murdered girls ages 8 and 12 – she was asked how can you forgive the shooter so easily
Her answer – so easy – I stop and take a breath and give it to God – then I take another step and stop – then another room and stop – over and over time I sleep.
POINT – if she is so busy giving it to God she has no time left over to hate
Around 1200 in the South of France the vatican's soldiers finally cornered the Gnostic Cathars
They had to renounce their faith or be burnt to death at the stake
Yes many jumped over the clift to their death - but many other gladly and cheerfully threw themselves into the fire - this shocked the soldiers do much that many of them deserted the following day
Google it - true story
Gnosticism and Reincarnation Arthur Guirdham (1905-92), Senior Consultant Psychiatrist for the clinical area of Bath for over twenty years. Highly considered by his associates and friends, - ...
Mrs Smith, who he met in the 1960s. Later another local woman known as Miss Mills also became involved. Eventually an entire group of people emerged who had reincarnated together with Guirdham into different eras.
All from that same cathar group of 1200 AD FranceMrs Smith, in her Cathar incarnation, was a Catholic named Puerilia. Guirdham was Roger de Grissolles, a Cathar. The two had been lovers in the thirteenth century. Puerilia was eventually condemned and burnt as a heretic herself. Mrs Smith’s memories of this past life were dramatic and seemingly accurate in strange details. She recalled, ‘I didn’t know when you were burnt to death you’d bleed. I thought the blood would all dry up in the terrible heat. But I was bleeding heavily. The blood was dripping and hissing in the flames. I wished I had enough blood to put the flames out. The worst part was my eyes. I hate the thought of going blind… I tried to close my eyelids but I couldn’t. They must have been burnt off, and now those flames were going to pluck my eyes out with their evil fingers.’
Do I preach this - no
Do I deny this - also noHow can you so easily be assured of our salvation?this is easy – there is a creator – the more you know – the more you praise – Rom 1:19-20The Psychology of UnderstandingThere is a grave stone, in Northern Indiana, with the most fascinating verse engraved upon the front.
It simply says:
As you are, I once was
and as I am, you soon will be.
Short, simple, straight to the point and perhaps the most profound revelation of mortality. We are all going to die sooner or later. So then, the next most important question becomes - Then what? - is there something more? The question for me is not whether there is a God and an afterlife! The question, for me as a man, is if there is a God and an afterlife, and I do eventually meet my maker; will I be able to look Him straight in the eye and shake His hand, or will I be ashamed and embarrassed for who I really am? If there is no God and nothing more, then anything said or done here matters not. It is just the Confusion I Ponder until I expire. However, if there is something more, then how do I or any one make an honest and objective investigation of this possibility. I wish I felt comfortable just sticking to the facts, but lets just look at what the facts are.
How can you so easily be assured of our salvation?Learn – all you can – come to understand – move from religion to faith
Trust in your salvation – no trust = doubtI hear people say – I pray all the time.
If the prayer beings – Hey if you are there – listen to me – your lost
Believers vrs Born Again For 28 years I have watch family after family – rich, famous, and poor pray in the hospital chapel – but once grandma is better? What of all those promises that bargained with?
Lip service – pretenders - believers or they wouldn’t be in the Chapel – doubters / fakers / pretenders
If a man says he walks with God at age 30, but at age 50 he doesn’t
Gnosticism says he never walked with God
D"In line with the bulk of scripture - precept upon pecept, line upon line
Your version dose not fit - therefore it is a metaphore - nothing more! Cannot be anything more because it does not agree with any other scripture from the ahl alone
R" Yeah I get what your'e saying Dave, but does any Jewish talmud or sage speak of the Hebrew passage in Ezekiel about the cherub chata thing? I haven't found any as yet? Are there any midrash or talmud writings on this passage?
Jewish Talmud has nothing to do with spiritual JudaismAlready discussed it once before – but let's listen to Rabbi Singer againponderingconfusion.proboards.com/thread/408/judaism-christianity-satan-rabbi-singerJudaism and Christianity on Satan: Rabbi Singer - video
Jewish satan as an obedient servant of God -vrs- a Christian Free Will villain
7:25 – Angels have no Free Will8:40 – Hinduism – neo-monotheism. It has always been mon-thiestic with a Trinity of a god Head. Bahama the Creator, Shiva the Destroyer, and Vishnu who has came as a man twice to impart wisdom and knowledge. They say, their God is one – but has a multitude of faces and they are awaiting the Third coming.
8:50 – All Gnostics are pagan. Jews think Christians pagan – therefore Christian Gnostics = pagan to Jews. Gnostic literature is a compost if many txt from may cultures and much of it is totally pagan.
I am a Gnostic Christian than embraces ahl first, agl second, and value of the Gnostic Gospels found within the Nag Hammadi Text, written by the same authors as the agl Canon10:15 – Gnostic Christians were crushed by the Roman church
10:50 - Satan is NOT God’s enemy10:50-13:10 – God created Evil (RA), and why God created the Contest15:30 – Book of Job
16:30 – Satan obeys God
21:45 – you have never sin without make a – CHOICE23:00 – Thank God for satan
26:25 – the archon help us forget the consequence of Sin
27:00 – 1 Chronicles 21:1 -vrs- I Samuael 24:1
28:00 - Isaiah 14 = Babylon
33:20 – Exk 28 = Tyre / USA?
This is an interesting thread Dave. So many differences with my own views. Where to begin? Much we have discussed before.
D" Cannot be anything more because it does not agree with any other scripture from the ahl alone
R" Why doesn't it fit? Please explain...you write so brief. Attack my logic, ie cherub and chata, why doesn't it fit?
Gen 3:15 seed – angels cannot have children
Gen 6 – angels cannot have children
Rev 12 Beast is a plurality – made with SOME matter – and do have children
Exk 28 says your cherub was a friend to God – cherished
Rev The Beast just appears in a plurality and is cast into earth (Gen 1:1 earth = all physical creation)
All scripture say NT satan is a murder and a liar from the beginning
All scripture says NT satan is the god of the world
Sometimes the NT speaks of the devil in exactly the same way (Rev 12 Beast family = archon)
Sometimes scripture speaks of NT devil, and satans, as demons – all from the same family = Archon
Your mistake – as with many satan believers
Hebrew satan is not the same entity as the NT satan – 2 different guys
1 is an angel in service to the Lord in the OT
1 is of the Beast in the NT
Why – and this should be culturally obvious – think about it Robert
The disciples were all Jewish with a Jewish education, the agl is added on top of what they knew
Today – Christians study scripture from the Gospels backward – or by topic – by message – by Roman Christendom’s publications
D"The only thing my Gnostic text disagrees with is Catholic Fallen Angels
R Are you for real? I posted this from
Rp" OK, tell me how the Vallenius Trinity includes LIGHT, SPIRIT and DARKNESS?
R" and your reply is denial
R" Are you saying I am lying? I am simply asking you about your so called details of your so called Vallenius Trinity which you claim was developed before the Catholic Trinity was invented later.Mormon Beliefs – Church of Latter Day SaintsMormons Believe that Christ, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Ghost are Separate Beings
The Mormon belief that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are three separate people who are one in their mission to bring about the salvation of all mankind.You agree with this Mormon belief – how many other Mormon beliefs do you have?Shall I post many Mormon questions for you to dance around Or can we have an intelligent conversation?
Dave I get the impression your views are different from all this, you pick and choose from the Jews and the Gnostic writings, the best of both and match it to the Bible, but it's confusing to say the least.
If you understood Judaism – much of the Gnostic text would not seem so strange to you
If you understood the translation process – the roughness of the gnostic text
If you understood Judaism – the agl would ready differently to you as well..
the roughness of the Canon text - English 1635
Bar 5:6 They departed from thee on foote, and were led away of their enemies: but now shall the Lorde bring them caryed with honour, as chyldren of the kingdome.
Bar 5:7 For God is purposed to bring downe al stout mountaynes, yea & all hie rockes, to fill the valleys, and so to make them euen with the ground, that Israel may be diligent to liue vnto the honour of God.
Why doesn't it read like the KJV today?But Egyptian Coptic from 2000 years ago -
well that has to be perfect English for you