Post by Dave on Jun 25, 2021 6:34:17 GMT -5
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
But he we are as Christians believing in John 3:16 and the promise of eternal life
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
If you are a Christian – it would appear that God is wrong and the serpent correct
And these simple God inspired / God breathed words of scripture have been so misunderstood by Roman Christianity that my friend Robert is lost and twisted
R You even say humans have a spirit that cannot die, unless it enters the second death. Hence you agree with the serpent saying ye shall not surely die.
D Yes - If you repent and receive a Divine Pardon – this is the entire message from God to man
I guess you must disagree with the Divine Pardon – who opposes God now?
If we as Christians have the gift of eternal life – then God’s declaration to Adam seems to be error
God said – you will die – and later God says we have eternal life
This is so Confusing for Robert
Gen 2:17 God said to Adam – if you eat it you will - מות תמות׃
You will - מות (die – present infinity tense) + תמות׃ (future perfect tense)
You will – die now and for infinity + in the future you will surely die
Two deaths – one now and one in the future
God said – if you eat of it – you will die now like all the animals made of flesh – and you will be judge a sinner at the final spiritual judgment at the Lake of Fire
If you disobey now (sin) – you will be judge a sinner later
IS THIS A LIE – sorry it is absolute truth – at the time of Gen 2:17
Why is it the absolute truth – because God had no given Adam the promise of salvation – yet
John 3:16 did not exist yet – before Roman 5:12 – because salvation from Gen 3:6 (the man chata) – the first sin – the first time a creature disobeyed God – the first time someone broke the LAW – was noy necessary – because gen 3:6 had not happened yet
Did God say to Adam – here is my one and only LAW to follow – but if you disobey me I’ll forgive you – NO – God said – if you disobey - You will – die now and for infinity + in the future you will surely die
The serpent simply said - לא מות תמתון׃
NOT + מות תמתון׃
NOT + מות (die – present infinity tense) + תמות׃ (future perfect tense)
NOT + die now and for infinity + in the future you will surely die
Robert maintains that this is a lie – it has to be a lie – because the serpent said it and the serpent is a liar in his doctrine
John 3:16 is the promise that in the future – you will surely NOT die – but have eternal life
Robert maintains that this is a lie – it has to be a lie – because the serpent said it and the serpent is a liar in his doctrine
Sorry Robert
God told the absolute truth in Gen 2:17 – there was just no need for John 3:16 yet
The serpent also told the truth in Gen 3:4 – salvation has been the plan since Gen 1:2-3
It is not a lie – it is a deception
As a Christian – isn’t it amazing that even in the exchange – the truth of the Messiah is reviled
Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.”
Is a curse and a blessing – because it also reviles the promise of John 3:16
Jesus Christ is the seed of Eve who will stand with us (because he came among us – he tabernacled with man) – and died for our sins – to revile the promise of the afterlife
God did not lie – because Rom 5:12 had not happened yet
The serpent didn’t lie either – because John 3:16 is real
Eve was deceived – fooled because she didn’t have all the information yet
Robert cannot grasp this reality because he has to have an evil god opposing God – his doctrine clouds his view – all he can see is his satan god at work
1 King 22 teaches us that sometimes – a deceiving spirit can be in the service of the lord
And what service does the serpent of Gen 3 provide?
Deu 8:2 …—in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.
Psa 7:9, 11:5, 26:2, 66:10, 139:23,- Jer 9:7, 12:3, 17:10, 20:12, - 1 Chr 29:17, - Ecc 3:18, - Pro 17:3, - Job 7:17-18, 13:9, 23:10,- Isa 48:10,- Ezk 21:13, - Zac 123:9, - 1 Cor 3:13, - James 1:3
From God we came – we souljourn here with the commission of Jer 1:5 – and to God we return
Into the wilderness – the valley of the shadow of death we souljourn with our commission of Jer 1:5 – and the wilderness is the domain / kingdom of the archon - they were here first making ra all over the place – make ra for fun – making ra for sport – eating and killing – and is was not sin because there was no LAW
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.
Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.
Into the wilderness– we souljourn here with the commission of Jer 1:5 – and the wilderness is our Great Contest
But all men sin - Just as Adam - there are non righteous - no not one
Gen 3:15 Is a curse and a blessing – because it also reviles the promise of John 3:16
1st Book of Adam and Eve - in print long before Jesus walk this earth
3:1 GOD said to Adam, "I have ordained on this earth days and years, and thou and thy seed shall dwell and walk in it, until the days and years are fulfilled; when I shall send the paragraph continues]Word that created thee, and against which thou hast transgressed, the Word that made thee come out of the garden and that raised thee when thou wast fallen.
2 Yea, the Word that will again save thee when the five days and a half are fulfilled."
3 But when Adam heard these words from God, and of the great five days and a half, he did not understand the meaning of them.
4 For Adam was thinking that there would be but five days and a half for him, to the end of the world.
5 And Adam wept, and prayed God to explain it to him.
6 Then God in His mercy for Adam who was made after His own image and similitude, explained to him, that these were 5,000 and 500 years; and how One would then come and save him and his seed.
Why would any Christian declair this writting as heresy and forbidden?
The Word that Created Adam will return to save Adam and his seed
Authoritative Teaching - The Nag Hammadi Library
And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world
But he we are as Christians believing in John 3:16 and the promise of eternal life
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
If you are a Christian – it would appear that God is wrong and the serpent correct
And these simple God inspired / God breathed words of scripture have been so misunderstood by Roman Christianity that my friend Robert is lost and twisted
R You even say humans have a spirit that cannot die, unless it enters the second death. Hence you agree with the serpent saying ye shall not surely die.
D Yes - If you repent and receive a Divine Pardon – this is the entire message from God to man
I guess you must disagree with the Divine Pardon – who opposes God now?
If we as Christians have the gift of eternal life – then God’s declaration to Adam seems to be error
God said – you will die – and later God says we have eternal life
This is so Confusing for Robert
Gen 2:17 God said to Adam – if you eat it you will - מות תמות׃
You will - מות (die – present infinity tense) + תמות׃ (future perfect tense)
You will – die now and for infinity + in the future you will surely die
Two deaths – one now and one in the future
God said – if you eat of it – you will die now like all the animals made of flesh – and you will be judge a sinner at the final spiritual judgment at the Lake of Fire
If you disobey now (sin) – you will be judge a sinner later
IS THIS A LIE – sorry it is absolute truth – at the time of Gen 2:17
Why is it the absolute truth – because God had no given Adam the promise of salvation – yet
John 3:16 did not exist yet – before Roman 5:12 – because salvation from Gen 3:6 (the man chata) – the first sin – the first time a creature disobeyed God – the first time someone broke the LAW – was noy necessary – because gen 3:6 had not happened yet
Did God say to Adam – here is my one and only LAW to follow – but if you disobey me I’ll forgive you – NO – God said – if you disobey - You will – die now and for infinity + in the future you will surely die
The serpent simply said - לא מות תמתון׃
NOT + מות תמתון׃
NOT + מות (die – present infinity tense) + תמות׃ (future perfect tense)
NOT + die now and for infinity + in the future you will surely die
Robert maintains that this is a lie – it has to be a lie – because the serpent said it and the serpent is a liar in his doctrine
John 3:16 is the promise that in the future – you will surely NOT die – but have eternal life
Robert maintains that this is a lie – it has to be a lie – because the serpent said it and the serpent is a liar in his doctrine
Sorry Robert
God told the absolute truth in Gen 2:17 – there was just no need for John 3:16 yet
The serpent also told the truth in Gen 3:4 – salvation has been the plan since Gen 1:2-3
It is not a lie – it is a deception
As a Christian – isn’t it amazing that even in the exchange – the truth of the Messiah is reviled
Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.”
Is a curse and a blessing – because it also reviles the promise of John 3:16
Jesus Christ is the seed of Eve who will stand with us (because he came among us – he tabernacled with man) – and died for our sins – to revile the promise of the afterlife
God did not lie – because Rom 5:12 had not happened yet
The serpent didn’t lie either – because John 3:16 is real
Eve was deceived – fooled because she didn’t have all the information yet
Robert cannot grasp this reality because he has to have an evil god opposing God – his doctrine clouds his view – all he can see is his satan god at work
1 King 22 teaches us that sometimes – a deceiving spirit can be in the service of the lord
And what service does the serpent of Gen 3 provide?
Deu 8:2 …—in order to humble you, to test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His mitzvot or not.
Psa 7:9, 11:5, 26:2, 66:10, 139:23,- Jer 9:7, 12:3, 17:10, 20:12, - 1 Chr 29:17, - Ecc 3:18, - Pro 17:3, - Job 7:17-18, 13:9, 23:10,- Isa 48:10,- Ezk 21:13, - Zac 123:9, - 1 Cor 3:13, - James 1:3
From God we came – we souljourn here with the commission of Jer 1:5 – and to God we return
Into the wilderness – the valley of the shadow of death we souljourn with our commission of Jer 1:5 – and the wilderness is the domain / kingdom of the archon - they were here first making ra all over the place – make ra for fun – making ra for sport – eating and killing – and is was not sin because there was no LAW
Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned.
Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.
Into the wilderness– we souljourn here with the commission of Jer 1:5 – and the wilderness is our Great Contest
But all men sin - Just as Adam - there are non righteous - no not one
Gen 3:15 Is a curse and a blessing – because it also reviles the promise of John 3:16
1st Book of Adam and Eve - in print long before Jesus walk this earth
3:1 GOD said to Adam, "I have ordained on this earth days and years, and thou and thy seed shall dwell and walk in it, until the days and years are fulfilled; when I shall send the paragraph continues]Word that created thee, and against which thou hast transgressed, the Word that made thee come out of the garden and that raised thee when thou wast fallen.
2 Yea, the Word that will again save thee when the five days and a half are fulfilled."
3 But when Adam heard these words from God, and of the great five days and a half, he did not understand the meaning of them.
4 For Adam was thinking that there would be but five days and a half for him, to the end of the world.
5 And Adam wept, and prayed God to explain it to him.
6 Then God in His mercy for Adam who was made after His own image and similitude, explained to him, that these were 5,000 and 500 years; and how One would then come and save him and his seed.
Why would any Christian declair this writting as heresy and forbidden?
The Word that Created Adam will return to save Adam and his seed
Authoritative Teaching - The Nag Hammadi Library
And before anything came into being, it was the Father alone who existed, before the worlds that are in the heavens appeared, or the world that is on the earth, or principality, or authority, or the powers. [...] appear [...] and [...] And nothing came into being without his wish.
He, then, the Father, wishing to reveal his wealth and his glory, brought about this great contest in this world, wishing to make the contestants appear, and make all those who contend leave behind the things that had come into being, and despise them with a lofty, incomprehensible knowledge, and flee to the one who exists.
And (as for) those who contend with us, being adversaries who contend against us, we are to be victorious over their ignorance through our knowledge, since we have already known the Inscrutable One from whom we have come forth. We have nothing in this world, lest the authority of the world that has come into being should detain us in the world