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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2021 15:26:16 GMT -5
D"But for Day 7 = yom can mean anything you want it to be R" Huh?
The ceasing verb began on the 7th Yom day, hence a week of time was established. But the Scriptures could not end the week saying "evening and morning the 7th day" because that would bring in Sunday morning the 8th day, so by not saying anything, the 7th day began, so the week of time was established.
That is my understanding, 2 pennies worth.
D"And the only reason you do it – is to defend the Creation Institutes mythology
R" Hmm? God created the granite rocks according to Robert Gantry in 6 nanoseconds Dave, they just came to be rapidly. Gantry looked at plutonium crystals rings in zircon in granite.
I accept the earth is young, but looks old. Time as you say is relative, yes, but does not affect the local time scale of earth relative to earth, only affects time relative to other bodies. I assume you understand relativity.
D"not constant with 2 Peter 3:8 or Psa 90:4
R" Where God lives looking on earth, different motions of bodies, time is different. Where time moves on earth, the time is one yom after another yom. But from where God sees, the time is different.
D"Time is not linear - Time is dependent upon the perspective of the viewer
R" Correct.
But the time on earth is linear, as earth moves forward or rotates.
The time seen from a different frame reference, ie Andromeda causes time to shift, appear older. Thus the time between earth and Andromeda would not be linear, it would be different. The time on Andromeda would be linear as well.
Atomic clocks in rockets all show the same linear time to begin with, but one rocket moves faster away than the other rocket, after a year of movement, the time clocks are different from each other, because time is dependent upon the speeds of the frame of reference. The frames of reference are travelling at different speeds.
Hope this helps
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 22, 2021 17:48:32 GMT -5
Arrh no Dave, Yom always means a day, 24 hours. However when used in prophetic visions which God wants to tell us something , the time scale God uses is 1 yom = 1 year. The yom is still a day of time, but now it's prophetic time, so means a year in prophetic time. R the prophecy timescale of 1 yom= 1 year, is in Scripture, and is used by GOD only for prophetic visions.
D"But for Day 7 = yom can mean anything you want it to be R" Huh?
The ceasing verb began on the 7th Yom day, hence a week of time was established. But the Scriptures could not end the week saying "evening and morning the 7th day" because that would bring in Sunday morning the 8th day, so by not saying anything, the 7th day began, so the week of time was established.
That is my understanding, 2 pennies worth.
Correct Robert – you preach that day 1-6 are only 24hrs – but day 7 has not ended yet
Therefore yom #7 is anything but 24hrs Therefore your attempt to explain it away as prophetic time is just religious mumbo jumbo
Therefore you preach yom is a polyseminous word and Hebrew has no polysemy at the same time
D"And the only reason you do it – is to defend the Creation Institutes mythology R" Hmm? God created the granite rocks according to Robert Gantry in 6 nanoseconds Dave, they just came to be rapidly. Gantry looked at plutonium crystals rings in zircon in granite.
So why did it take 6 days to created everything? Couldn’t your God do it faster?
Why did your God chose to create the multi-verse in 6 increments of time Why not create it all in the first nano-second of time?
If yom means yom and day 7 is still ongoing By what authority do you force the first 6 days to be only 24 hrs?
By the authority of the Yong Earth doctrine promoted by the Creation Institute Because you have ZERO evidence from within scripture Scripture says – Time is not Linear – it is dependent upon the perspective of the viewer Please validate your 24hr days belief from scripture – you cannot!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2021 13:24:14 GMT -5
Ge 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
OK Dave, where was the evening of the day one? Technically there cannot be one, the time from day one just began on the darkness....so there was no evening as such....
Ge 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made
Here the day 7 begins, but the morning is not mentioned, as this is Sunday morning.
God records time from evening to morning.
SO a weekly cycle is defined here.
D"If yom means yom and day 7 is still ongoing By what authority do you force the first 6 days to be only 24 hrs?
R" Hmm? My understanding yom is always 24 hrs. But you cannot say evening and morning the seventh day, God finished his work, because that means one week plus a part of Sunday time.
D" By what authority do you force the first 6 days to be only 24 hrs? R" God's? God can do anything can't He?
Time does not exist with God. Granite rocks called into being in seconds. (even nano-seconds)
D"So why did it take 6 days to created everything? Couldn’t your God do it faster?
R" Well is takes time to speak words doesn't it?
The taking 7 days of time is for a reason, to allocate time for mankind. Sure God can create faster if He wants to.
Sabbath is a special time for GOD coming to man and for man coming to God, it's eternal in His law.
Ge 2:4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Relativity is already in Genesis, generation created in one day (yom) how is this possible?
In other words God made the earth look old and mature, when it was young and perfect.
Gerald Schroeder speaks of this, a Jewish professor.
Jews consider the yom to mean 24 hours of local earth time.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 23, 2021 17:04:57 GMT -5
Ge 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. OK Dave, where was the evening of the day one? Technically there cannot be one, the time from day one just began on the darkness....so there was no evening as such....Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Gen 1:5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” So there was evening and there was morning—one day. Gen 1:5 and God calleth to the light 'Day,' and to the darkness He hath called 'Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning—day one. Gen 1:5 And God called the light day, and the darknes night: and the euenyng & the mornyng were the first day.Sorry Robert – Evening + Morning = Day 1Here the day 7 begins, but the morning is not mentioned, as this is Sunday morning.Correct – you say Days 1-6 must be 24hrs – but day started but has not endedQuestion – How long is Day 7? Answer – anything but 24hrs D"If yom means yom and day 7 is still ongoing By what authority do you force the first 6 days to be only 24 hrs? R" Hmm? My understanding yom is always 24 hrs. Except for Day 7 – our realityD" By what authority do you force the first 6 days to be only 24 hrs? R" God's? God can do anything can't He?Not what I asked – I asked by what authority does your doctrine stand?
Is there a verse that says time is measured different at different times - YES2 Peter 3:8 + Psa 90:4 – time is not linear – it is measured at different rates dependent upon the perspective of the viewTime does not exist with God. Granite rocks called into being in seconds. (even nano-seconds) D"So why did it take 6 days to created everything? Couldn’t your God do it faster? R" Well is takes time to speak words doesn't it?OK – new question – why did God take His time speaking those words in the same order as non-theological scientist discover in nature – word for word – item for itemGen 1:1-5 The First Age – the age of spirit Gen 1:6 -13 plants before the sun – YES! Gen 14-18 – the Sun and Moon + possibly other celestial bodies in place Gen 19-21 – birds + sea creatures Gen 21-23 – land creatures – beast (dinos) Gen 24-26 – man is last and has dominion Every evolutionist on the planet will agree with this – but without God they present it as However they teach it – modern palentology does not agree – the correct fossile tree looks likeEach creature is created (without any pre-curser) – reproduces after its own kind – then dies completely out (leaving nothing behind – no legacy) Darwin said himself the problem with his theory = lack of fossil intermediary species = (Missing Links) Each and every species is lack the missing links to validate evolution Current schols teach = MacrostatisLarge numbers of species just appear all at once in a explosion (Wiki) - The Cambrian explosion or Cambrian radiation[1] was an event approximately 541 million years ago in the Cambrian period when practically all major animal phyla started appearing in the fossil record. It resulted in the divergence of most modern metazoan phyla. The event was accompanied by major diversifications in other groups of organisms as well. Before the Cambrian explosion, most organisms were relatively simple, composed of individual cells, or small multicellular organisms, occasionally organized into colonies. As the rate of diversification subsequently accelerated, the variety of life became much more complex, and began to resemble that of today. Evolutionary Science says – 1- that one “Day” a lot of life appeared seemingly all at once 2- and the new appearance of life was more complex than the life of the “Day” before To me – this is exactly what scripture saysEach new “Day” – new and more complex life appeared Plants in the dark – then the Sun - birds + sea creatures - land creatures – beast (dinos) - man is last and has dominion 2 witness to the exact same event – that I term Incremental creationponderingconfusion.com/papers.php?id=incrementYou said you read it once - but I (Dave) did say much - your words I argue/ Ponder / ask – did God do all of Day 1, 2, 4, or day 5 in one moment – or – Gnostic – God took His time – and enjoyed each and every step of His creation Could he have done a few thing in the morning – a few more in the afternoon – a last few in the evening? No reason why God could not have taken His time to enjoy each and every day! Ge 2:4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, Relativity is already in Genesis, generation created in one day (yom) how is this possible?Because it was a long time and many things happened before the Mountains – before man Jer 4:19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war. Jer 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. Jer 4:21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet? Jer 4:22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Ecc 1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us. Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after. Relativity is already in Genesis, generation created in one day (yom) how is this possible?Angels in heaven – man in heaven does not reproduce – not matter but ethereal All the men – all the angels – all the generation of men to be on earth were all created in heaven on Day 1 Enoch says – he was given a book to write al the generation into the book Some preach this is the Book of Life All the Jews Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. And all the Christians2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Jews consider the yom to mean 24 hours of local earth time.Then they deny their own scripture Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. I am not sure Rabbi Friedman would agree at all with you
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2021 4:17:12 GMT -5
Greetings
Professor Schroeder says God came to earth as a rotating ball of rock in the darkness because of fallen angels sinning (temperatures would be absolute zero - or close too) , and the Lord says let there be light, and from that moment Daylight rotates forth relative to earth. ) But to say evening and morning the day one, is impossible, because only daylight rotates first, so where did the evening rotation come from, but from the moment of light, but from before DAY ONE began, when the earth was in darkness.
SO the beginning of Day light, ie darkness was undefined, and the ending the Sabbath Day is also undefined, nevertheless the week of time was defined by GOD creating in 7 yom days.
If you try to say GOD took longer to create than 7 yom days, you have spoiled the definition of the week of time, only defined by 7 yom of creation.
Rp" Jews consider the yom to mean 24 hours of local earth time. D" Then they deny their own scripture
R" Professor Schroeder, a Jew would disagree with you Dave. You cannot misjudge him on this issue.
Gerald points out that while 7 yom occurs on earth, from God's view, the time is much longer, because of space stretching. As Schroeder, points out. He also speaks of 14 billion years of relative time.
D" However they teach it – modern palentology does not agree – the correct fossile tree looks like
R" Sorry, I do not support your idea of many human like creatures being made and only homo sapiens, being the final species to continue.
Scripture says God made man in his image, not a bunch of separate human like lines.
SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2021 12:44:03 GMT -5
Rp" Jews consider the yom to mean 24 hours of local earth time. D" Then they deny their own scripture R" Professor Schroeder, a Jew would disagree with you Dave. You cannot misjudge him on this issue.
Gerald points out that while 7 yom occurs on earth, from God's view, the time is much longer, because of space stretching. As Schroeder, points out. He also speaks of 14 billion years of relative time.
Correct Robert – Time is not linear – time is measured at different rates at different location dependent upon the perspective of the view
Now that is clear to both of us - Answer the question – by what authority do you force the first 6 Days of Creation to be 24hr while Day 7 of Creation is anything but 24hrs ?
D" However they teach it – modern palentology does not agree – the correct fossil tree looks like R" Sorry, I do not support your idea of many human like creatures being made and only homo sapiens, being the final species to continue.
Roman 1:19-20 - I do not have to deny - any evidence - from any source - to allow my theology to be true. And there is no evidence from any source that would cause me doubt in the One True God.
The Point is – this same pattern exist in all of the scientifically observed fossil record Creature were created all at once – reproduced after their own kind – then died out There are no missing links between any species – nothing evolves or changes
And God gave man 20 zillion fossils to prove that point beyond argument!
One of the goals of the archon is to create their own man as God did (LA MARZULLI) Gen 6 hybrid breeding – UFOs hybrid breeding – ancient astronauts – hybrid breeding The archon have always been on earth – before Adam Who are the ‘daughters of men’ that Cain married – while Seth was still a baby?
You say it had to be the daughters of Seth or the daughters of Adam and Eve Then why are none of them on the ark? If the bane elohiym are men – and there are no men in heaven - only the earth and grave – how can the bane elohiym report to God in heaven and satan with them If the bane elohiym are Sons of Seth – who are biological men on earth – how are they in heaven?
Sorry – the Sethian argument does not fit the bulk of scripture
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2021 14:22:31 GMT -5
D"One of the goals of the archon is to create their own man as God did (LA MARZULLI) Gen 6 hybrid breeding – UFOs hybrid breeding – ancient astronauts – hybrid breeding The archon have always been on earth – before Adam
There is no evidence that creatures called archons can have sex with humans, they are different kinds, and therefore cannot mate. My understanding only humans are made in the image of God, hence man is the unique one of a kind, therefore no other different kind can mate. Canus the dog kind, can mate, ie wolves, wolverines, dogs, foxes, coyotes and even dingoes, all the same kind.
Archon and humans are different kinds and cannot mate. Not possible. Genetic engineering might be possible though, but the Scripture forbid the amalgamation of man with other beasts.
De 22:9 Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: Le 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
D" Who are the ‘daughters of men’ that Cain married – while Seth was still a baby? R" Not all children mentioned in Scripture, not all girls mentioned either.
Cain married his sister. Seth married his sister as well. With perfect, but corrupting DNA, such union is possible, but becoming more less ideal.
Assuming Eve started children from age 40 and continued say 10 years, with twins common, by the time Cain was old enough to procreate at say 30 years old, there would have been 60 sisters to choose from, assuming 50% female, thus more than enough for a gene pool.
D" You say it had to be the daughters of Seth or the daughters of Adam and Eve Then why are none of them on the ark?
R" Scripture speaks of only 8 children of Adam saved. All the rest died or were unworthy of salvation on the boat.
D" If the bane elohiym are men – and there are no men in heaven - only the earth and grave – how can the bane elohiym report to God in heaven and satan with them
R" Who says in Job, that God was in heaven at the meetings, this is assumed?
Job 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
No mention of where, earth or heaven?
I suspect the meetings were in heaven, the sons of elohiym were princes from other unfallen worlds coming to meet God, and Satan a prince over earth representing fallen humans and fallen angels was allowed to attend.
The phrase sons of elohiym, refer to redeemed or sinless beings, hence these are creatures without sin.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Some scholars say poetry parallel say morning stars is the same as sons of God? I think not, too much in the poetry parallel thing, similes, yes but not the same as, no.
Morning stars are heavenly beings like cherub always near GOD. Sons of God are other creatures similes of humans, who are unfallen from other universe worlds, not near GOD.
D" If the bane elohiym are Sons of Seth – who are biological men on earth – how are they in heaven? R" I suspect there are princes of other unfallen worlds.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
When a fallen angel sinned, "I will lay thee before kings" refers to these other princes of other worlds, the sons of GOD, who remain sinless, and look at the earth kingdom with Satan as a prince of earth, ruler of humans and fallen angels, the term ruler is "prince" a legal term to "rule a kingdom".
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2021 14:38:53 GMT -5
There is no evidence that creatures called archons can have sex with humans, they are different kinds, and therefore cannot mate. Gen 6:1-4 – the archon are made with some matter like us
the Scripture forbid the amalgamation of man with other beasts. And this is why the Gen 6 Archon are the sinning angels – held in chains- awaiting to be used by God again in Rev 9
D" If the bane elohiym are men – and there are no men in heaven - only the earth and grave – how can the bane elohiym report to God in heaven and satan with them
R" Who says in Job, that God was in heaven at the meetings, this is assumed?
Job 1:6 One day the sons of God came to present themselves before Adonai, and the satan also came with them. Job 1:7 Adonai said to the satan, “Where have you come from?” The satan responded to Adonai and said, “From roaming the earth and from walking on it.”
Job 2:1 Again the day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before Adonai, and the satan also arrived among them to present himself before Adonai. Job 2:2 Adonai said to him, “Where are you coming from?” The satan answered Adonai, “From roaming the earth and from walking on it.”
NOPE – not on earth – that is where satan came from for the meeting
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2021 4:24:58 GMT -5
D" Gen 6:1-4 – the archon are made with some matter like usR" Hmm? what do you mean Dave? All the creatures on earth have some matter like humans, but it is the DNA code that makes each creature kind different. Humans only are made in the image of GOD. What specifically does this mean? D" NOPE – not on earth – that is where satan came from for the meetingR" Nice logic Dave Now do you have any evidence that the human DNA is similar to other creatures such as archons? But this is a natural mate. What about genetic engineering? Are the archon intelligent enough to achieve this level of technology? And thirdly would God have permitted this idea of GM on humans? The way the Lev is written and the judgment on the earth after a mere 2000 years, suggests to me GOD did not allow GM humans or archonic GM human demigods, any sense of developing what you suggest. There is no evidence of what you present. Giants, yes, GM humans on humans with animals, maybe. But God flooded the evidence and the evil away for good reason. Your Gnostic idea of a creature hanging unto the ark is a myth. Anyhow how did the archons handle the flood? Are they physical enough to be drowned with humans? If the archons are fallen angels, than they all would have survived the great flood, only humans cannot fly, and drowned except 8. You didn't investigate other parts of my post? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 26, 2021 13:05:03 GMT -5
Now do you have any evidence that the human DNA is similar to other creatures such as archons?(google) Humans and chimps share a surprising 98.8 percent of their DNA. (google) 96 percent similar to the great ape species (google) Image result for how close is human dna to animals On the whole, only 25% of the DNA sequence in the dog genome exactly matches the human sequence. But this is a natural mate.Nope – unnatural – not of the same kind – Transgress the law of beastWhat about genetic engineering? Are the archon intelligent enough to achieve this level of technology?OK – sure – whatever way you want to imagine it – Alien / Archon / human hybrids – demi-godsAnd thirdly would God have permitted this idea of GM on humans?Evidently he did – Gen 6:1-4There is no evidence of what you present. Giants, yes, GM humans on humans with animals, maybe. Giants in English = tall people Giants in Greek = children of Mother Earth and gods – gia (earth) ants (children / offspring / decendents) www.wikiwand.com/en/Giants_(Greek_mythology)In Greek and Roman Mythology, the Giants, also called Gigantes (Greek: Γίγαντες, Gígantes, singular: Γίγας, Gígas), were a race of great strength and aggression, though not necessarily of great size. They were known for the Gigantomachy (or Gigantomachia), their battle with the Olympian gods. According to Hesiod, the Giants were the offspring of Gaia (Earth), born from the blood that fell when Uranus (Sky) was castrated by his Titan son Cronus. But God flooded the evidence and the evil away for good reason.Oops! Not consistent with scripture – I believe scriptureNum 13:33 We also saw there the Nephilim. (The sons of Anak are from the Nephilim.) Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: Num 13:33 And there we saw the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who come of the Nephilim: Your Gnostic idea of a creature hanging unto the ark is a myth. Anyhow how did the archons handle the flood? Are they physical enough to be drowned with humans?Not Gnostic at all – 100% JewishGiant and the Flood. Jewish Legend How Og survived the Flood. Fugitive giant Og is mentioned in Jewish literature as being alive from the time of Noah up until the time of his death in battle with the Israelites. It is also written in the Midrash that he had a special compartment in Noah's Ark just for him. Aggadah suggests an alternative to this; that he sat upon the top of the ark, riding out the flood for the duration of the storm from this location. Jewish Encyclopedia says on Og: Of all the giants only Og escaped destruction in the Flood. Noah made a place for him near the lattice door of the ark, through which (Pirḳe R. El. xxiii.), because Og had sworn to serve Noah and his descendants for all time, he handed him his food every day. If the archons are fallen angels, than they all would have survived the great flood, only humans cannot fly, and drowned except . Correct – the invisible archon are spirit beings and just remained invisible The visible archon – the bane elohiym and Rephilim survived the flood genetically Scripture says the flood waters covered the tallest mountain by 20 feet Many Giants were just taller – much taller You said What about genetic engineering? Are the archon intelligent enough to achieve this level of technology?OK – sure – whatever way you want to imagine it – Alien / Archon / human hybrids – demi-godsMaybe some flew away in a space ship only to return
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2021 14:35:22 GMT -5
D" Jewish Encyclopedia says on Og:
Of all the giants only Og escaped destruction in the Flood. Noah made a place for him near the lattice door of the ark, through which (Pirḳe R. El. xxiii.), because Og had sworn to serve Noah and his descendants for all time, he handed him his food every day.R" this writing would be classified as the precepts and doctrine of men, would it not? Not found in the holy torah, only found in the Jewish talmud? You begin by suggesting a close DNA match so this demigod idea of yours could work? Is not the battle with archons a spiritual war, not a physical flesh war? Which is the primary battle? Flesh or the Spirit? Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places Notice Scripture say we battle spiritual wickedness. These archons spoil the second birth process... the redemption of mankind after Adam sinned. Isa 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. 5 They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper. Notice here the aven word, the propensities of the flesh are born through suggestions of the outside, epigenetics causes aven to be born. I suspect when man sinned, the serpent flicked a gene switch on or off, touching or spoiling our DNA code in the right place, to cause aven to be corrupt, so now through influence on the outside the future humans are spoiled on the inside, through corrupt DNA code. So it's not flesh sex as you allude, but this idea of influence the person to do bad things that born mischief in future generations. DO a study of the Hebrew word aven. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1076.htmShalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 27, 2021 5:01:43 GMT -5
D"Jewish Encyclopedia says on Og: R" this writing would be classified as the precepts and doctrine of men, would it not? Not found in the holy torah, only found in the Jewish talmud?
You need to stop right now and take a moment to learn what the Talmud is. You are offensive – and you choose to be
I will quote Joseph Smith and call it SDA then attack it Your academic honesty is wanting Robert You make up facts to support your position - except your facts are not facts Your facts sound like Walter Veith - lies about the Jewish faith and history You can either speak with facts – or have no credibility – you choose
So when Ellen White said god was once a man born on earth - what did she mean? Will you answer this question - or am I being an ass
You begin by suggesting a close DNA match so this demigod idea of yours could work? Is not the battle with archons a spiritual war, not a physical flesh war? Which is the primary battle? Flesh or the Spirit? Notice Scripture say we battle spiritual wickedness.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places
For months you argue that Eph 6:12 had nothing to do with archon – you argue Paul was wrong to call them archon – is just means in the beginning – ow you argue that the archon are real but just not made of matter. So consistent – it seems you will say almost anything to deny and hide away our real enemy The Sons of Anak were all biology The Amorite were biology Goliath was biology And so are the 13 families
Either Paul told us the truth and scripture is correct – or you just choose to deny Shedim are biological creatures in the ahl Either Isaiah and King Solomon told us the truth – or you just choose to deny
Gen 3:14 Adonai Elohim said to the serpent, “Because you did this, Cursed are you above all the livestock and above every animal of the field. On your belly will you go, and dust will you eat all the days of your life. (biology - livestock - beast of the field - belly eating dust - archon made with biology - serpent race) Gen 3:15 I will put animosity between you and the woman—between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will crush his heel.” (the seed of the serpent + seed of Eve - biology / offspring - bane elohiym) Gen 3:16 To the woman He said, “I will greatly increase your pain from conception to labor. In pain will you give birth to children. Your desire will be toward your husband, yet he must rule over you.” Gen 3:17 Then to the man He said, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate of the tree which I commanded you, saying, ‘You must not eat of it’: Cursed is the ground because of you—with pain will you eat of it all the days of your life. (man vrs WORLD)
Isa 59:4 - Notice here the aven word, the propensities of the flesh are born through suggestions of the outside, epigenetics causes aven to be born. YEP – (yester ra) is tempted by suggestion from the outside
I suspect when man sinned, the serpent flicked a gene switch on or off, touching or spoiling our DNA code in the right place, to cause aven to be corrupt, so now through influence on the outside the future humans are spoiled on the inside, through corrupt DNA code.
And this is why you deny science – Rom 1:19 is not evidence of God's creation to you All you can see proves the handiwork of your satan’s creation It all depend upon who you give the praise
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2021 15:57:46 GMT -5
Greetings Dave Happy Sabbath D" You need to stop right now and take a moment to learn what the Talmud is.R" Correct me if I am wrong, but in child like summary the Jews follow the torah and the talmud. The torah is the sacred texts from Moses and the holy prophets who wrote, ie the common received Scriptures the essenes copied in the Dead Sea Scroll era. The talmud is other Jewish sources of traditional ideas and precepts of men. Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:Where do these precepts of men come from, the Bible says we are to avoid? I quote " 1) the Talmud was the centerpiece of Jewish "cultural life " 2) "the guide for the daily life" of Jews 3) the Babylonian Talmud 4) as the Jerusalem Talmud 5) Rabbinic Judaism's Oral Torah 6) contains the teachings and opinions of thousands of rabbis 7) The Talmud is the basis for all codes of Jewish law I think these quotes are scholarly enough and details the contents and importance of the talmud. How did Jesus see the way some Jews made light of the torah through traditions: Mr 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye While this does not condemn the talmud, it serves to show that some who hold the talmud higher than the Bible for their guidance. Many SDA people used to do that also when EGW was around, and I suppose you could consider her writings, all the thousands of pages and dozens of books, a kind of commentary upon the Bible, a kind of SDA talmud, using this as a simile. My point is the talmud commentaries may be of good use if used properly, but overall the Bible alone should be our guide. Just as the EGW writings on the Bible may have good if used properly, but overall the Bible alone should be our guide. Talmud From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Talmud (/ˈtɑːlmʊd, -məd, ˈtæl-/; Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד Tálmūḏ) is the central text of Rabbinic Judaism and the primary source of Jewish religious law (halakha) and Jewish theology.[1][2] Until the advent of modernity, in nearly all Jewish communities, the Talmud was the centerpiece of Jewish cultural life and was foundational to "all Jewish thought and aspirations", serving also as "the guide for the daily life" of Jews.[3]
The term "Talmud" normally refers to the collection of writings named specifically the Babylonian Talmud (Talmud Bavli), although there is also an earlier collection known as the Jerusalem Talmud (Talmud Yerushalmi).[4] It may also traditionally be called Shas (ש״ס), a Hebrew abbreviation of shisha sedarim, or the "six orders" of the Mishnah.
The Talmud has two components; the Mishnah (משנה, c. 200 CE), a written compendium of Rabbinic Judaism's Oral Torah; and the Gemara (גמרא, c. 500 CE), an elucidation of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Hebrew Bible. The term "Talmud" may refer to either the Gemara alone, or the Mishnah and Gemara together.
The entire Talmud consists of 63 tractates, and in the standard print, called the Vilna Shas, there are 2,711 double-sided folios.[5] It is written in Mishnaic Hebrew and Jewish Babylonian Aramaic and contains the teachings and opinions of thousands of rabbis (dating from before the Common Era through to the fifth century) on a variety of subjects, including halakha, Jewish ethics, philosophy, customs, history, and folklore, and many other topics. The Talmud is the basis for all codes of Jewish law and is widely quoted in rabbinic literature.------------------------------- D" So when Ellen White said god was once a man born on earth - what did she mean?R" Hmm? I did a search only one statement, not sure if this was it? Quote EGW" The character of God cannot be separated from His life. And the life of God is known only in Christ. Christ was good, for He “knew no sin;” (2 Corinthians 5:21) He “did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth.” 1 Peter 2:22. Yet to the young man who came to Him and called Him “Good Master,” He said, “Why callest thou Me good? none is good save one, even God” (Mark 10:18), thus showing that He Himself was God. See also John 1:1, 14. To Philip, who said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us,” He replied, “Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father.” John 14:8, 9. “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself.” 2 Corinthians 5:19. Of His work He said, “The Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works.” John 14:10. His life, therefore, was in the fullest sense a godly life. It is the life of Christ that saves us. Romans 5:10. Not the simple fact that He once lived on earth, but the fact of His now living in us. He is a present Saviour. “Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is born of God.” 1 John 4:2. Note well that it does not speak about confessing that Jesus has come or did come in the flesh, but that He is come in the flesh. Through Christ dwelling in the heart by faith, the life also of Jesus is to be manifested in our mortal flesh (2 Corinthians 4:11) that so we may be filled with the fulness of God. Ephesians 3:17-19.
Christ’s life on earth was a life of obedience. Said He, “I have kept My Father’s commandments.” John 16:10. Again, “I honour My Father,” and, “I know Him, and keep His saying.” John 8:49, 55. He was subject to His earthly parents.” Luke 2:51. He came to save life and not to destroy. Luke 6:9. So far was He from taking that which was not His own, or even from coveting, that He gladly gave up His own, and did not think it a prize to be retained. Philippians 2:5-7. No guile was in His mouth, for He was the embodiment of truth. “To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.” John 18:37. " end quote --------------------------------- D" For months you argue that Eph 6:12 had nothing to do with archon – you argue Paul was wrong to call them archon – is just means in the beginning – ow you argue that the archon are real but just not made of matter. So consistent – it seems you will say almost anything to deny and hide away our real enemy The Sons of Anak were all biologyR" The archons are made of matter Dave, all creatures God creates are made of matter, including cherub which in a metaphor is a simile of humans, so say this is all about humans, in a way yes, but it also proves the cherub is also made of matter and a simile of man. But also made of a different kind to man, so that sex naturally is impossible. But the concept of sin is to be found missing God in your life, and these fallen angels changed and corrupted the DNA of man after He sinned, making the flesh mortal to suffer this dying death process. The fallen angels who sinned first have no corruption of DNA in their bodies, hence in this sense live longer with decay and dying in the same sense as humans, who were the second kind of creatures to have sinned. The epi-genetic inheritance of aven propensities of sin, refer to the born of mischief, and evil, and in this way the RA is inherited in each generation. D" The Sons of Anak were all biologyR" Yes but so are fallen angels also biology. But their nature is different to human. D" now you argue that the archon are real but just not made of matterR I never said the archons were not of matter. The term archon Dave means in English "chief-rulers". The term is not a reference to creature kinds, but a descriptor of function, a creature who is a chief-ruler. D" Either Paul told us the truth and scripture is correct – or you just choose to deny Shedim are biological creatures in the ahl Either Isaiah and King Solomon told us the truth – or you just choose to denyR" I do not deny the "rulers of darkness" Dave, all disguised as fallen angels, as I understand them. D" Gen 3:14 Adonai Elohim said to the serpent, “Because you did this, Cursed are you above all the livestock and above every animal of the field. On your belly will you go, and dust will you eat all the days of your life. (biology - livestock - beast of the field - belly eating dust - archon made with biology - serpent race)R" correct, the chief ruler of darkness was a cherub kind, and chose to enter the serpent as a simile of his functional powers on earth. Cherubs look like humans, and are made of matter similiar to humans, but are different creature kinds to humans. D" And this is why you deny science – Rom 1:19 is not evidence of God's creation to you All you can see proves the handiwork of your satan’s creation It all depend upon who you give the praiseR" It depends upon your focus Dave. EGW Desire of Ages, about Jesus, a wonderful book I quote" My mind goes to you, Martha, in Torre Pellice [Italy], and I believe that yourself and husband should attend the meeting of the conference. We want to see you, and we want to see you trusting fully in the precious Saviour. He loves you; He gave His life for you because He valued your soul. I had a dream not long since. I was going through a garden, and you were by my side. You kept saying, “Look at this unsightly shrub, this deformed tree, that poor stunted rosebush. This makes me feel bad, for they seem to represent my life and the relation I stand in before God.” I thought a stately form walked just before us, and he said, “Gather the roses and the lilies and the pinks, and leave the thistles and unsightly shrubs, and bruise not the soul that Christ has in His choice keeping.” end quote. The rose thorn has developed as a result of Adam's sin and God cursing the ground, different expressions of genes came out as a result of a change of ground, not due to Satan directly, not due to Adam directly, but due to the encoding of DNA within the rose to grow and multiple and exist in the world, even if the world should become one of RA, the rose was programmed by Jesus it's creator to flourish despite the decaying ground. So the leaves become sometimes a bract and form a thorn to keep predators off. It is not evidence of Satan's DNA coding at all, but the clever programming of Jesus who foreknew the fall of Adam, encoded the DNA of living systems to cope with RA, which arises from SIN, should and when it happened. Thus Jesus is the clever DNA programmer of life, including the provision for sin should it come upon His Creation. This is why our focus is not upon the RA of code, but upon the glory and fine tuning of the Creator of this code, indeed the world of tov and ra is finely tuned to exist despite it running down and wearing out, all praise to a clever Creator Jesus, focus on the pinks, forget the thorns, which mean in Hebrew anyway, to turn the head, to make us turn to Jesus, who is the restorer of all good things. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 27, 2021 18:20:59 GMT -5
D"You need to stop right now and take a moment to learn what the Talmud is. R" Correct me if I am wrong, but in child like summary the Jews follow the torah and the talmud. We have talked for 2 years – and you do not have a clue what I have said
If you feel the need to invent lies about me so you can argue against your own lies Do it on another forum – your disrespect is not welcome here
Mormons Believe that Christ, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Ghost are Separate Beings And so do you Mormons believe that god was once a man on earth that grew up to become a god Mormons believe that Jesus and satan were twin brothers JW teach there is no hell or heaven – earth is all there is So you believe all this because it is all Christian and you claim to be a Christian
Talmudic Jews do not believe in the spirit – to them is all about the law Hasidic Jews – believe in the spirit – and are the first to be Messianic Jews But you have so much academic respect for the Judaism you just mix it all together
From now on – you will have to defend each and every stupid Christian doctrine I can find It does not matter if it is SDA or even anything you claim to believe I will just post it all and force you to defend all of the wacky beliefs as a Christian
Why do the SDA dance with snake during service? I heard this about a Christian church in Tennessee – why does the SDA support it?
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R" The archons are made of matter Dave, all creatures God creates are made of matter, including cherub which in a metaphor is a simile of humans, so say this is all about humans, in a way yes, but it also proves the cherub is also made of matter and a simile of man
So your god is just biology Christ is just biology Even the Holy Spirit - is not spirit it also is biology Angels are just biology Evil spirits are just biology
And you claim you do not deny man is a spirit
D"And this is why you deny science – Rom 1:19 is not evidence of God's creation to you All you can see proves the handiwork of your satan’s creation It all depend upon who you give the praise R" It depends upon your focus Dave. Yes and your focus is upon satan
So when Ellen White applies Roman 1:19 to her faith all she can see is the handiwork of your satan and this is what she teaches – Rome 1:19 is proof of satan’s handiwork
Does not sound very Christian to me
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Post by Richard on Aug 29, 2021 9:05:21 GMT -5
D"You need to stop right now and take a moment to learn what the Talmud is. R" Correct me if I am wrong, but in child like summary the Jews follow the torah and the talmud. We have talked for 2 years – and you do not have a clue what I have said your disrespect is not welcome here Talmudic Jews do not believe in the spirit – to them is all about the law Hasidic Jews – believe in the spirit – and are the first to be Messianic JewsBut you have so much academic respect for the Judaism you just mix it all together This has always been Robert's style. Misrepresent whatever you say to force it to be error so he can mock you, as he mocks scripture. I told you long ago that Robert is not a student. His intent is not to build up, but to tear down. If one cannot defend their own view, they just attack the views others.
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