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Post by Dave on Aug 6, 2021 22:54:38 GMT -5
D"So all of your sola scriptoria is in error using the word REINS? What does REINS mean to you anyhow Dave? I’ll give you my Robert answer – I don’t understand – what do you think reins are used for with a dumb animal – it sure has nothing to do with processing piss
D" You claim – man is not an independed being – an independent spirit – an independent soul You absolutely deny this R" What does independent being, an independent spirit – an independent soul, mean to you Dave?
So when you go to work or out in public you cannot tell the difference between your wife and your boss or the mailman – must be so confusing for you
R" Well Dave what do you say? That man has some eternal spirit, yet is able to be quenched to death in the Lake of FIre? Able to speak outside the body? Does your theory make sense? no, not to me. Or scripture.
Sorry Robert – 100% scripture Man was created in the heavens on day one as was all the host of heaven Man is an eternal spirit – just like angels However – man is special – man is mated with animal (yester ra) and souljourns as a human While human – man is special – we can choose – embrace animal / World (yester ra) or embrace spirit (yester tov) If man is so animally arrogant to choose World over God – it is sin – and the punishment for sin is death in the Lake of Faire – the Second death – the death of spirit But man is special – man can choose – and our choices matter – they should bring us to the truth and God
Upon mortal death – man is judged on the sum of his choices and suffers Proportional Punishment or Reward – or granted a Divine Pardon / Salvation
Is Proportional Punishment the same for everyone – NO – each man his due Does everyone make it out of Proportional Punishment purified for the First Resurrection – NO Many are still there being cast into the lake of fire at the end
Is eternal life a gift – something added – NO Adam was created eternal – he became mortal and that placed his eternal soul at risk But Adam was also given the promise – God will send the Word that created him to save him Salvation comes by repentance and repentance comes by grief and grief come by the WORLD Eternal life is not the extra gift added– it is a restoration to the Perfect Race of man – as we began
D" When I ask you why your HS does so much sinning R" Are you dull? you call me 8th grade science? A medium does not do sinning Dave, the person in the medium does. OK – let’s take it back to college – WHO IS THE PERSON – you argue the person is not an independent individual but just the HS or God empowering ‘us’ – but you refuse to address who the ‘us’ is
Sometimes Dave, I do not understand what you are presenting? You just say that to avoid a direct question!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2021 17:21:29 GMT -5
Dave the word Reins in KJV English means what to people these days? You didn't answer. Means little to me? D" Man was created in the heavens on day one as was all the host of heavenR wow that is some claim. Where is your evidence? Ge 1:1 no creation of angels or man here Ge 1:2 Ge 1:3 Ge 1:4 Ge 1:5 no mention of angels or mankind? So where is your evidence? D" Man is an eternal spirit – just like angelsR" Where is your proof? D" However – man is special – man is mated with animal (yester ra) and souljourns as a humanR" If man is mated to yester Ra, why wasn't the first tree called RA/Tov ? In fact you tried to dismiss the first tree entirely...remember? There are two powers in the Garden, two trees, one is called only the tree of chay. The other tree is called tree of RA/Tov. And you are telling me God made Adam from the second tree, and not from the first tree? D" Many are still there being cast into the lake of fire at the endR" So is man has "an eternal spirit" (your words) how can something eternal be made to end in the Lake of Fire, especially since it's not a gift as you claim? D" Adam was created eternal – he became mortal and that placed his eternal soul at riskR" You play word games worse than me Dave. How can something be eternal, and than lose that eternal, simply because of sin? So Adam was immortal I assume, than became mortal because He disobeyed? D" God will send the Word that created him to save himR" Sounds like you want two powers of GOD, but I thought you have one god with two expressions, so why did your write a weird sentence like you did? If I was Dave, I would have written, GOD became the word on earth in order to save him. I would not have used the word "Sent" because that in most people of English implies two powers, one who sends and the other is sent. So you must be confused? Is God one godhead or two or three members of godhead? You claim to support trinity, but modalism is not trinity, it's one God, even in three expressions, is one god, and has no claim to being a trinity. All religions of trinity have complete different notions of God than your claim Dave. You are using the term trinity falsely. Ask a Jew, they do not have trinity in their monotheism. Neither should you. D" man is judged on the sum of his choices R" So man is judged by his choices? by works? Is that how you see salvation? Hab 2:4 Behold...the just shall live by his faith. Man is judged by how often he uses amanuah, Dave, is my understanding of Scripture. This by the way is mentioned only ONCE in the OT Hebrew, so much for you wanting lots of Bible evidence for major themes. D" i t is a restoration to the Perfect Race of man – as we beganR" So are you saying we live forever in heaven as a perfect race? Scripture says we live forever on earth? See Rev 20 - 22 D" OK – let’s take it back to college – WHO IS THE PERSON – you argue the person is not an independent individual but just the HS or God empowering ‘us’ – but you refuse to address who the ‘us’ isR" Nice try Dave. God made mankind from dust, on day 6 (not in heaven on day 1) and breathed into the nose, the breath (two Hebrew words used here "breathing" and "HS") of life, and man became "nephesh". My understanding of this is the medium allows the power of the Father to flow continuely into the dust (body) so the whole body (including the facilities of the mind) become living energy (able to think and choose). Is this whole machinery of living truly independent? No Only God is living. But is this living machinery able to make choices independently of GOD ? Yes Pr 16:9 ¶ A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. Man chooses his directions of way, but GOD creates or empowers the steps to get there. Now how is this done on a local level, when the medium is allowing you to live? Well the person holding the magnifying glass is you, inside you are powers or you to choose your way, (ie how you decide to use the medium) and GOD directs the steps each day from your choice. SO if you decide to sin (sin normally cannot exist with God) so the medium allows your way to exist, hence God creates the RA you desire so you can see the RA/SIN affect. How is this so difficult for you to understand? Study the verse I gave you and ask what it means. ---------------------- Now you have many questions to answer here about your theories. Perhaps this is why you use other additional books of the torah? Ask your self, did God not supply all the answers for HIS truth, did GOD intentionally left out some books? Or did GOD choose a complete truth for the common received Text? The Bible most Christians hold in their hands today? Are you saying God left out answers? So is this why you use your Gnostic writings? I would disagree with your claim if this is so. The common received text has complete truth. One does not need more books. Ro 13:1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers (archons) are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
This passage Paul begins by saying humans must be subject to higher powers, but the only higher power should be subject to is GOD. Than Paul speaks of another higher power than humans, the archons of evil (RA). Paul uses thiws term, so perhaps I can see why you use this term archon as much as you do. God is only a minister unto TOV, and asks all humans to also do TOV. God judges those who do RA (verse4). So who are these rulers (archons) Paul speaks of? Lu 11:15 But some of them said , He casteth out devils <daimonion> through Beelzebub the chief <archon> of the devils <daimonion>. Paul and Luke say the archons are from Devils, the Greek word is daimonion. And who are these daimonion? 1Co 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice , they sacrifice to devils <daimonion>, and not > to God and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils <daimonion>. This verse is quoted as a cross reference to the OT in Hebrew. Le 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils <sa`iyr> And De 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils <shed>, also Ps 106:37 Now I cannot find verses to link sa`iyr, shed,daimonion to diabolos? G 1228? Are there any? Or is diabolos a separate RA being? www.christswords.com/main/content/devilsThe Greek words translated as "devils" and "demons" (daimonion) and "devil" (diabolos), have taken a very different meaning today than it had in Christ's time.Hmm? He says some weird things, some good, you might like him Dave? translationtruth.wordpress.com/2007/10/07/defending-the-authorized-versions-kjv-use-of-the-word-devil/Than there is this almost opposite view: The use of the term devil is the subject of much debate in the issue of translations. Modern translations have dropped the use of the term devil and have replaced it with the Greek transliteration demon. There are two Greek words that are the subject of the debate: diabolos and daimonion. Some authors such as Derek Prince (authored the heretical They Shall Expel Demons) believe that daimonion are different creatures than diabolos. This is a serious error that can lead to concocted theories such as the belief that the so-called demons can control Christians. N.T. Greek dabblers may jump to the floor with reference to the Greek’s use of both diabolos and daemonium to refer to Satan and the devils, respectively. Any objection to translation the two different Greek words as one English word fails disastrously since new version editors themselves translate two different Hebrew words, shed and sair, as one word ‘demon’. Scholars who live in glass houses should refrain from throwing ‘original language’ stones, particularly when their house of cards appears to have been designed by a New Age architect.
I shall leave you to comment? What is the difference between daimonion to diabolos ? Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 7, 2021 19:31:20 GMT -5
D" Man was created in the heavens on day one as was all the host of heaven R wow that is some claim. Where is your evidence?
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
D" Man is an eternal spirit – just like angels R" Where is your proof? Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
D" However – man is special – man is mated with animal (yester ra) and souljourns as a human R" If man is mated to yester Ra, why wasn't the first tree called RA/Tov ? In fact you tried to dismiss the first tree entirely...remember? There are two powers in the Garden, two trees, one is called only the tree of chay. The other tree is called tree of RA/Tov. – IS A LIE – and just something you made up You should be ashamed misrepresenting scripture – Respect for the word of God is obvious There were millions of trees – among them was a tree called the Tree of Life - and a tree called
Gen 2:17 … the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, …
Of all the trees only one tree was off limits
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (present tense) and (will surely die future tense )
D" Many are still there being cast into the lake of fire at the end R" So is man has "an eternal spirit" (your words) how can something eternal be made to end in the Lake of Fire
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (present tense) and (will surely die future tense )
D" God will send the Word that created him to save him R" Sounds like you want two powers of GOD, but I thought you have one god with two expressions, so why did your write a weird sentence like you did?
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
The Book of Adam and Eve Chapter 3:1 CHAP. III. GOD said to Adam, "I have ordained on this earth days and years, and thou and thy seed shall dwell and walk in it, until the days and years are fulfilled; when I shall send the Word that created thee, and against which thou hast transgressed, the Word that made thee come out of the garden and that raised thee when thou wast fallen. 2 Yea, the Word that will again save thee when the five days and a half are fulfilled."
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
3 But when Adam heard these words from God, and of the great five days and a half, he did not understand the meaning of them. 4 For Adam was thinking that there would be but five days and a half for him, to the end of the world. 5 And Adam wept, and prayed God to explain it to him.
6 Then God in His mercy for Adam who was made after His own image and similitude, explained to him, that these were 5,000 and 500 years; and how One would then come and save him and his seed.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
7 But God had before that made this covenant with our father, Adam, in the same terms, ere he came out of the garden, when he was by the tree whereof Eve took the fruit and gave it him to eat. 8 Inasmuch as when our father Adam came out of the garden, he passed by that tree, and saw how God had then changed the appearance of it into another form, and how it withered. 9 And as Adam went to it he feared, trembled and fell down; but God in His mercy lifted him up, and then made this covenant with him.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Is a curse and a PROMISE – the seed of Eve = Jesus Christ
D" man is judged on the sum of his choices R" So man is judged by his choices? by works? Is that how you see salvation? Deeds, works, and fruit Hab 2:4 Behold...the just shall live by his faith. Too bad you are unable to see the difference
Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone says he has faith, but does not have works? Can such faith save him? Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, Jas 2:16 and one of you says to them, “Go in shalom, keep warm and well fed, ” but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is that? Jas 2:17 So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead by itself. Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works. Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe—and shudder! Jas 2:20 But do you want to know, you empty person, that faith without works is dead? Jas 2:21 Wasn’t Abraham our father proved righteous by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? Jas 2:22 You see that faith worked together with his works, and by the works his faith was made complete. Jas 2:23 The Scripture was fulfilled that says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness”—and he was called God’s friend. Jas 2:24 You see that a man is proved righteous by works and not by faith alone. Jas 2:25 And likewise, wasn’t Rahab the prostitute also proved righteous by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out another way? Jas 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
D" it is a restoration to the Perfect Race of man – as we began R" So are you saying we live forever in heaven as a perfect race? Yes – the promise is to be with God - dose it matter where
D" OK – let’s take it back to college – WHO IS THE PERSON – you argue the person is not an independent individual but just the HS or God empowering ‘us’ – but you refuse to address who the ‘us’ is R" Nice try Dave. Is this whole machinery of living truly independent? No Only God is living. OK – explain to me why your god is such a sinner And again the circle of Robert continues
Jas 2:26 ... the body without the spirit is dead ... ----------------------
Now you have many questions to answer here about your theories. Perhaps this is why you use other additional books of the torah? YES – I do use other book than the Torah – I use the major prophets, and the minor prophets, and the inter-testament and the agl + I use commentary by the same authors that wrote the agl + just as Judaism uses other text by the authors of the ahl
Ask your self, did God not supply all the answers for HIS truth, did GOD intentionally left out some books? Or did GOD choose a complete truth for the common received Text? Are you talking about the Torah or the received text Question – Received by whom? Do you know the answer or are you afraid to admit it means Rome
The Bible most Christians hold in their hands today? Correction – the most common Bible of Western Roman Christendom It is not the Bible of the Greek Orthodox, the Syrian Christian, or the Coptic Christian You are just making my point for me There is evidence of the One true Creator all over this world Rom 1:19-20 - unmistakable - no excuse
Are you saying God left out answers? So is this why you use your Gnostic writings? NOPE – Rome did – Rome invented the Index – persecuted folk for reading it – tried to burn it out of existence On the other Hand – other non-Roman sects kept everything about God and respected it all The Nag Hammadi – is a Library The Dead Sea Scrolls – are a Library The Coptic Broader Canon - is a Library No one was limited to the Recieved text util Rome recieved it
The Roman index contains heresy by the Disciples John, James, Peter, Phillip, and Thomas - as well as - the Apostile Paul. Rome accuses the very authors of the agl of also writing heresy. You choose to belive Rome - your choice.
I would disagree with your claim if this is so. The common received text has complete truth. One does not need more books. Please send me a photo of you burning all 40 Ellen White Books – hypocrite!
Ro 13:1 - This passage Paul begins by saying humans must be subject to higher powers, but the only higher power should be subject to is GOD.
Correct – there is only ONE TRUE GOD – there is only one supreme power All other powerful entities = created beings – Rev 12:3 Beast + plurality = offspring = devil (s) + serpent(s) + satanas(s) (devils of Chaldean origin)
Than Paul speaks of another higher power than humans, the archons of evil (RA). All other powerful entities = created beings – Rev 12:3 Beast + plurality = offspring = devil (s) + serpent(s) + satanas(s) (devils of Chaldean origin)
So who are these rulers (archons) Paul speaks of? All other powerful entities = created beings – Rev 12:3 Beast + plurality = offspring = devil (s) + serpent(s) + satanas(s) (devils of Chaldean origin)
Lu 11:15 But some of them said , He casteth out devils <daimonion> through Beelzebub the chief <archon> of the devils <daimonion>.
Paul and Luke say the archons are from Devils, the Greek word is daimonion. And who are these daimonion?
G1140 – δαιμόνιον - Neuter of a derivative of G1142; a daemonic being; by extension a (false) deity: - devil, (other) god. – (non-God gods)
G1142 – δαίμων - From δαίω daiō (to distribute fortunes); a demon or super natural spirit (of a bad nature): - devil.
English = Devil and demons
Hebrew = Hebrew words, shed and sair, as one word ‘demon’ Any objection to translation the two different Greek words as one English word fails disastrously since new version editors themselves translate two different Hebrew words, shed and sair, as one word ‘demon’
Gnostic – the difference between a devil and a demon is an issue of rank – as in a Military The Beast = Commander and Chief The devil = the General / Commander Demons / serpents = the soldiers
Can a demon be a devil – sure Can a devil be a demon = sure They are all equally = archon
1Co 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice , they sacrifice to devils <daimonion>, and not > to God and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils <daimonion>.
This verse is quoted as a cross reference to the OT in Hebrew.
Le 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils <sa`iyr> De 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils <shed>, also Ps 106:37 Correct – the archon (regardless of what you call them) are the ‘other gods’ of the ahl = Baal / Molech / etc All the non-God gods of the whole world – Norse / Europe / Australia / India / Sumar / Greece / Rome are all – agents / messengers / offspring / soldiers of the BEAST – who has the Whole WORLD
translationtruth.wordpress.com/2007/10/07/defending-the-authorized-versions-kjv-use-of-the-word-devil/
The use of the term devil is the subject of much debate in the issue of translations. Modern translations have dropped the use of the term devil and have replaced it with the Greek transliteration demon. There are two Greek words that are the subject of the debate: diabolos and daimonion. Some authors such as Derek Prince (authored the heretical They Shall Expel Demons) believe that daimonion are different creatures than diabolos.
Both archon – Gnostic – the difference between a devil and a demon is an issue of rank – as in a Military The Beast = Commander and Chief The devil = the General / Commander Demons / serpents = the soldiers
This is a serious error that can lead to concocted theories such as the belief that the so-called demons can control Christians. This is your belief Robert satan rules all the people controls our thoughts
N.T. Greek dabblers may jump to the floor with reference to the Greek’s use of both diabolos and daemonium to refer to Satan and the devils, respectively. Within the agl only that = Greek satanas of Chaldean origin who is a physical (some matter) – who is a family serpent / devil / Beast
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2021 17:00:06 GMT -5
D"Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
My Jewish professor Gerald Schroeder says this speaks of the relativity of time. You are not misquoting my faviourite Jewish professor on the Genesis account.
D" The other tree is called tree of RA/Tov. – IS A LIE – and just something you made up You should be ashamed misrepresenting scripture – Respect for the word of God is obvious There were millions of trees – among them was a tree called the Tree of Life - and a tree called
Gen 2:17 … the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, …
Of all the trees only one tree was off limits
R" Why do you find it hard to read Scripture?
Ge 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
I see TWO trees in the middle of the garden, not your millions of trees Dave. Forget names, names are not important you say. There are two trees Dave.
D" thou shalt surely die (present tense) and (will surely die future tense )
R" your opinion Dave. I do not care for the grammar. muwth muwth.
God says ye shall experience muwth muwth. Serpent says ye shall NOT experience muwth muwth.
One of these trees of power is a liar Dave. One is negating the other.
D" Too bad you are unable to see the difference R" I read Scripture Dave, you don't follow it completely.
The holy works you must do are works of amanuah, not holy works of Self.
You post lots of verses but do not explain them...
D"OK – explain to me why your god is such a sinner R" God does not sin creating the RA of their SIN, so humans can see their sin affect.
To make umbra shadows (technically RA) you require to be far from GOD and less light from GOD, the medium allows for both of these. Where is there a sin in any of this? Only the sinner is in space differently to God, ie far from God. No changes to God.
Light diminishes on the square of the distance from God, its a physical law.
D" YES – I do use other book than the Torah – I use the major prophets, and the minor prophets, and the inter-testament and the agl + I use commentary by the same authors that wrote the agl + just as Judaism uses other text by the authors of the ahl
R You use other books to find doubt and fault with Moses. You follow the traditions and precepts of men.
D" It is not the Bible of the Greek Orthodox, the Syrian Christian, or the Coptic Christian You are just making my point for me
R I only need the first five books of Moses Dave, plus a few of the other prophets. You are judged by the light you live up to, different people can be saved by the conscience they listen to.
D" NOPE – Rome did – Rome invented the Index – persecuted folk for reading it – tried to burn it out of existence R Rome did not remove the books of Moses, Dave. I do not require additional books.
For example in Hosea, the plan of salvation is written in just 44 words, who needs the NT?
D"Can a demon be a devil – sure Can a devil be a demon = sure They are all equally = archon
I am glad you equate them as all archons, the term meaning rulers of darkness.
Than the first archon is a father of liars, as Jesus said.
My only problem with you is not the existence of these archons, but their origin.
And you ignore the Ezekiel 28 words in the Prophet's words.
Your choice, you have this right to ignore Scripture.
Now answer a new approach of mine...
God says ye shall muwth muwth The unnamed being speaking in a serpent said Ye shall NOT muwth muwth
One negates the other. This is the father archon of lies. Do you agree?
Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 8, 2021 19:59:51 GMT -5
D"Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
My Jewish professor Gerald Schroeder says this speaks of the relativity of time. You are not misquoting my faviourite Jewish professor on the Genesis account.
Gen 2:1 And the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
There is no new creation – creation is not ongoing – God does not stop to create each man as he is born
D" The other tree is called tree of RA/Tov. – IS A LIE – and just something you made up You should be ashamed misrepresenting scripture – Respect for the word of God is obvious There were millions of trees – among them was a tree called the Tree of Life - and a tree called Gen 2:17 … the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, … Of all the trees only one tree was off limits
R" Why do you find it hard to read Scripture? Ge 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
I see TWO trees in the middle of the garden, not your millions of trees Dave. Forget names, names are not important you say. There are two trees Dave. Nope! - every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, = (many trees, including the tree of Life) + The Tree of KNOWLEDGE between tov and ra
D" thou shalt surely die (present tense) and (will surely die future tense ) R" your opinion Dave. I do not care for the grammar. muwth muwth. Obviously – if it supports your theology make a big deal of it – language is important - If it does not support your theology you – you say ignore it
The holy works you must do are works of amanuah, not holy works of Self. Do Works all count to the good – it is all mitzvah? Answer – depends because - All of it = our witness to others
You post lots of verses but do not explain them... Read them - they speak for them selves - scripture speaks for itself
D" OK – let’s take it back to college – WHO IS THE PERSON – you argue the person is not an independent individual but just the HS or God empowering ‘us’ – but you refuse to address who the ‘us’ is R" Nice try Dave. Is this whole machinery of living truly independent? No Only God is living. OK – explain to me why your god is such a sinner And again the circle of Robert continues
Jas 2:26 ... the body without the spirit is dead ...
D"OK – explain to me why your god is such a sinner R" God does not sin creating the RA of their SIN, so humans can see their sin affect. Ok who is it that decides to sin – the body is nothing without the spirit – only dust
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returneth to the earth as it was, and the spirit returneth unto God who gave it.
And the spirit that returns to God is just the HS you say – or God you say Ok who is it that decides to sin – the body is nothing without the spirit – only dust Is this whole machinery of living truly independent? No Only God is living. OK – explain to me why your god is such a sinner
D" YES – I do use other book than the Torah – I use the major prophets, and the minor prophets, and the inter-testament and the agl + I use commentary by the same authors that wrote the agl + just as Judaism uses other text by the authors of the ahl
R You use other books to find doubt and fault with Moses. You follow the traditions and precepts of men. These writing have always been RESPECTED and seen as supplements to Scripture These other text find fault with the Roman Satanic Conspiracy You call the text of ancient Hebrew the precepts of men – yet embrace Roman Satanic Consperacy as fact abd quote from the Catholic Catechism
I am glad you equate them as all archons, the term meaning rulers of darkness. Than the first archon is a father of liars, as Jesus said. My only problem with you is not the existence of these archons, but their origin. You reject the agl version of the Beast in favor of Catholic Fallen Angels doctrine You make this very clear
Now answer a new approach of mine... God says ye shall muwth muwth The unnamed being speaking in a serpent said Ye shall NOT muwth muwth R" your opinion Dave. I do not care for the grammar. muwth muwth.
Consistent argument Robert
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2021 5:02:45 GMT -5
D" There is no new creation – creation is not ongoing – God does not stop to create each man as he is bornR" Why do you consider this? formed <yatsar> the breath <n@shamah> of life <chay> I will make <`asah> him made <banah> he a woman <'ishshah> thou shalt bring forth <yalad> children Adam <'adam> knew <yada`> she conceived <harah> All these Hebrew words, do not have bara or create. Why do you suppose God has to create new eggs and sperm for Adam and Eve, ? yada, harah, yalad and bingo a new child, where is the bara? not required. D" Nope! - every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, = (many trees, including the tree of Life) + The Tree of KNOWLEDGE between tov and raR" Oh boy you fail to catch the spiritual and physical significance of the TWO trees in the Garden. We have been through this before: Ge 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Something special about the tree of life, eating it's fruit makes you live forever. Ge 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Why bar access to only one tree, the tree of life? Pr 3:18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her. This verse says the HS is a simile of the tree of life. The tree is wisdom. Pr 11:30 ¶ The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; Again the tree of life is holy and special, similes of the righteous Pr 15:4 ¶ A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: Again the tree of life is a special tree. To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. Again eating the fruit of the tree of life, grants you ongoing living. Re 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. This tree of life is so special, and so big, it sits in the middle of the new city, and tree sits over the river bank, and goes up, (I imagine 6 Kms high) large enough to supply billions of fruit every month for the billions of people saved by GOD for the perfect earth and perfect heaven to come. Re 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, Again the tree of life is important. D" Obviously – if it supports your theology make a big deal of it – language is important - If it does not support your theology you – you say ignore itR" Got nothing to do with grammar Dave. God said if you eat you will muwth muwth. Serpent said if you eat, you will not muwth muwth. Does the serpent negate God's words or not? Are you saying the grammar of both speech's inside the words muwth muwth is different between both speakers? Please explain? D" Do Works all count to the good – it is all mitzvah?R" you write so briefly I do not understand you. Please explain what a good works Dave? D" Read them - they speak for them selves - scripture speaks for itselfR" Oh in this post I posted "Ge 3:22 , Ge 3:24 , Pr 3:18 , Pr 11:30 , Pr 15:4 , Re 22:2 , Re 22:14 " so these verses by themselves convince you the tree of life is holy and Very Very Very special to humans, and God? You need comments Dave, otherwise people do not catch what you are saying to them. D" And again the circle of Robert continuesR" Can't you argue like a true science person anymore Dave, is my logic too hard for you? I spoke of mediums, and medium diagrams of focus, focal point and images, diminished and magnified, surely you understand the medium properties of the images under a medium? These things are logical facts of mediums? If you do not understand me, read my link spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htmI detail the process with infinite details for grade 8 science kids. D" Jas 2:26 ... the body without the spirit is dead .. R" You speak so curtly, one has to imagine what you are saying... The full context please: Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. It's a parallel, talking about faith and works is a simile of body and spirit. For example if the body does works using the body only, such works are nothing to GOD/ The body has to do the works empowered by the Spirit, the forces within the body that come from GOD. This is a parallel to faith and works. If one does works without faith, such pious works mean nothing to God. You works have to be empowered by faith, a power that flows from God. Now I have explained the poetry parallel, for you. You do not care to write details of your theories of faith, but I do care to. D" Ok who is it that decides to sin – the body is nothing without the spirit – only dustR are you hung up with this term spirit? ruwach or n@shamah ? Ge 7:22 All in whose nostrils <'aph> was the breath <n@shamah> <ruwach> of life <chay>, Both terms are used in the KJV term 'spirit' ? ruwach is a term for medium, from the HS. nashamah is a term for breathing a function of the body, also a term for man's character, his spirit. Again why must you make so many infinite details about things? Your mind makes the decision of sin, why do we need to know further? D" These writing have always been RESPECTED and seen as supplements to ScriptureR" Would Jesus agree with you Dave? Mr 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. The idea of Corban, comes from where Dave? supplements to the torah? What did Jesus think of this supplement? D" You call the text of ancient Hebrew the precepts of men R" Really Dave, I do not. Nobody never heard of ancient Hebrew until recent times. D" yet embrace Roman Satanic Consperacy as factR" Really Dave, you embrace trinity, and that is a Catholic fact and term. I do not like the term trinity. God is more a family. The term trinity is impossible to define, and has Catholic origins which are difficult to define. But you embrace trinity.... a Catholic term. D" quote from the Catholic CatechismR I do not quote from the from the Catholic Catechism. SDA people do not believe in purgatory, but it seems Jewish to you, and you support or quote from the Catholic Catechism Dave? Really stop bagging me. D"Y ou reject the agl version of the Beast in favor of Catholic Fallen Angels doctrineR" I thought you said the demons and the devils are the same, now you want to say the Satan in the OT is not the same as the Satanas in the NT? Come on Dave, be consistent. D" Consistent argument RobertR really Dave are you afraid? I will see the Blue Hub Bible to see if the prefix and suffix are the same. Gen 3:4 3808 [e] לֹֽא־ lō- not Adv-NegPrt 4191 [e] מ֖וֹת mō-wṯ surely V-Qal-InfAbs 4191 [e] תְּמֻתֽוּן׃ tə-mu-ṯūn. you will die V-Qal-Imperf-2mp | Pn Gen 2:17 4191 [e] מ֥וֹת mō-wṯ surely V-Qal-InfAbs 4191 [e] תָּמֽוּת׃ tā-mūṯ. you shall die V-Qal-Imperf-2ms Dave you have a problem, the prefix and suffix of the Hebrew phrase is exactly the same, only the serpent has a negation, meaning he opposes GOD's words directly. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2021 12:45:21 GMT -5
D"There is no new creation – creation is not ongoing – God does not stop to create each man as he is born R" Why do you consider this?Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Why do you suppose God has to create new eggs and sperm for Adam and Eve, ? yada, harah, yalad and bingo a new child, where is the bara? not required.You see – we are not even speaking about the same thing at all Robert Eggs and sperm are biology – all you see is the biology – all you see is procreate
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Jews, Christians, and Gnostics speak of the spirit You only speak of the fleshD" Nope! - every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, = (many trees, including the tree of Life) + The Tree of KNOWLEDGE between tov and ra R" Oh boy you fail to catch the spiritual and physical significance of the TWO trees in the Garden. Something special about the tree of life, eating it's fruit makes you live forever.YEP – and there was no commandment – to eat or not to eat – no commandment Only one tree was off limits – the tree of KnowledgeWhy bar access to only one tree, the tree of life?After Romans 5:12 – Man was subject to Gen 2:17DUH - don't you believ scripture?Re 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, Again the tree of life is important.Too bad man did not / does not do His Commandments Isn’t that the lesson of Romans 5:12?D" Obviously – if it supports your theology make a big deal of it – language is important - If it does not support your theology you – you say ignore it R" Got nothing to do with grammar Dave. God said if you eat you will muwth (die present tense) muwth. (surely die future tense) This is the commandment and the sentence of punishment given Gen 2:17 Punishment = 2 deaths 1 now and one in the future If you die a sinner – God is absolutely CorrectSerpent said if you eat, you will not muwth (die present tense) muwth. (surely die future tense)Gen 3:1 But the serpent was shrewder than any animal of the field that Adonai Elohim made. The serpent is not stupid – the serpent was once in heaven with God and knows the spiritual reality
The Book of Adam and Eve Chapter 3:1 CHAP. III. GOD said to Adam, "I have ordained on this earth days and years, and thou and thy seed shall dwell and walk in it, until the days and years are fulfilled; when I shall send the Word that created thee, and against which thou hast transgressed, the Word that made thee come out of the garden and that raised thee when thou wast fallen. 2 Yea, the Word that will again save thee when the five days and a half are fulfilled."
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Does the serpent negate God's words or not? YES – God said you will surely die in the future – the serpent says not
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. If you think the serpent is lying – then you deny repentance and salvation / Divine pardonD" The consequences of sin is eternal, the mischief wrought is very serious.So you and the SDA deny REPENTENCE and a DIVINE PARDON or Salvation through Christ You version of Christianity is so flexible and changes with each post Please pick one theology and stick with it R" Dave I do not deny the repentance and divine pardon or the salvation process through Jesus Christ. You can call salvation and the Divine pardon a lie if you choose Robert Or you can admit there is no repentance and all men are destined for the Lake of FireIf you demand that the serpent was a sinner beause he was a liar Eve lied FIRST and nothing happened And God lied before that saying you will surley dieA deception is not a lie – it is just all the truthIn Australia you are told - YES you can finance a million dollar home people can afford it It is not a lie – some folk make all their payments A used car salesman will say – YES – this is a dependable brand of car It is not a lie – some of that brand last – some don’t – if yours don’t did he lie? If you can prove that the used car dealer lied - you can sue his pants off But if the used car sales man only decieved you - you are the guilty one - guilty of being stupid Eve had a choice - but no undestanding After she choose knowledge - she knew she was naked and guilty - guilty of being stupid / uneducated YOUR (yester ra) says – go ahead – no other man will see you – no other man will ever know No other man may ever find out – but it is a deception because God knows D" Do Works all count to the good – it is all mitzvah?R" you write so briefly I do not understand you.What is our work – our job?Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; even as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. What does this mean? To be nice and tolerant? To protect your flesh, long live the body? To donate money to the poor. To take in a homeless. To rise in stature at work and make lots of money? What does this mean?Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation. Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations. 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. We are all called to teach – to lean – to witness the Glory of God – our witness is on 24/7 in the things we do or say and especially the things we teachDo Works all count to the good – it is all mitzvah? Answer – depends because - All of it = our witness to othersOne Christian preaches that God is absolute Another Christian preaches God is weak and satan is a god Catholics preach the Pope is the Christ Islam preaches God has no son Some preach there is no God – it is all just SELF discipline Some preach we are all gods ALL excellent within their own religion – strong faith – much convictionsR" So man is judged by his choices? by works? Is that how you see salvation? Hab 2:4 Behold...the just shall live by his faith. Man is judged by how often he uses amanuah, Dave, is my understanding of Scripture. This by the way is mentioned only ONCE in the OT Hebrew, so much for you wanting lots of Bible evidence for major themes. Faith in what Robert you two Kings in heaven or your satan that rules the thought of menI choose the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the Messiah Jesus ChristD" And again the circle of Robert continues R" Can't you argue like a true science person anymore Dave, is my logic too hard for you?1- Your logic says there is no such thing as a spirit of man within the biology 2- And scripture says the biology just returns to the dust - corruptible 3- You say the spirit within man is just the HS or God – the only incorruptible within human man is the HS or God 4- So when the body dies and rerurns to the dust – only the HS or God returns to heaven as spiritYou do not care to write details of your theories of faith, but I do care to.I do not need a long list of things to do to follow the Lord – to obey the Lord You just preach religion – I preach salvation through ChristD" These writing have always been RESPECTED and seen as supplements to Scripture R" Would Jesus agree with you Dave? – YES!Jesus quoted these other text! Jesus quoted from Enoch! When Jesus spoke of Beelzebub everyone knew who he was talking about! 46 other text are mentioned within the ahl as credible sources of information The idea of Corban, comes from where Dave? supplements to the torah? What did Jesus think of this supplement?Your understanding of Judaism is wantingThe word "almsgiving," however, is far from expressing the full meaning of the Hebrew ẓedaḳah, which is, charity in the spirit of uprightness or justice. According to the Mosaic conception, wealth is a loan from God, and the poor have a certain claim on the possessions of the rich; while the rich are positively enjoined to share God's bounties with the poor. A systematic mode of relief of the needy was, therefore, provided by the law and by the institutions of the synagogue (see Charity). But all these provisions could not entirely remove want. "The poor shall never cease out of the land," says the lawgiver, and commands: "Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land" (Deut. xv. 11). In the course of time the giving of Alms out of mere pity and without regard to the permanent relief of the recipient, became a meritorious practise, possessing, like sacrifice, the power of atoning for man's sins, and redeeming him from calamity and death. The verse Prov. xi. 4 (compare xvi. 6, xxi. 3) was expounded in this sense: "Water will quench blazing fire; so doth almsgiving make atonement for sins." "Lay up alms in thy store-house; it shall deliver thee from all affliction" (Ecclus. iii. 30, xxix. 12). Sacrifices to the Lord in other (non-Temple) forms and (in personal) form is 100% Hebrew JudaismMar 7:11 But you say if anyone tells his father or mother, ‘Whatever you might have gained from me is korban (that is, an offering to God),’ Mar 7:12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, Mar 7:13 making void the word of God with your tradition that you’ve handed down. And you do many such things.” Is all about being a HYPOCRITE D"You call the text of ancient Hebrew the precepts of men R" Really Dave, I do not. Nobody never heard of ancient Hebrew until recent times.I think I will frame this and hang it on my wallOK – please share with me what the ancient Hebrews had to work with – if they did not have their own writings until recently
D"yet embrace Roman Satanic Consperacy as fact R" Really Dave, you embrace trinity, and that is a Catholic fact and term.Ha ha ha ha ha – the expression Father, Son, and Holy Ghost came from Valentinus – who was close to becoming the Bishop of Rome, and after he lost the vote – he opened a school of theology in Rome - later excommunicated from Rome – and ALL of his writings banned.D"quote from the Catholic Catechism R I do not quote from the from the Catholic Catechism. Your doctrine of Fallen Angels is 100% Catholic Catechism word for word You cannot deny it D"You reject the agl version of the Beast in favor of Catholic Fallen Angels doctrine R" I thought you said the demons and the devils are the same, now you want to say the Satan in the OT is not the same as the Satanas in the NT? Come on Dave, be consistent.Correct – agl Beast, devil, serpent, and satanas are creatures made with some matter – archon Creatures made with some matter that can live here as visible creatures – have offspring
Ahl satan is an angel of the lord in service to the lord – not made with matter – and cannot have offspring
One has absolutely nothing to do with the other except in the religion of Catholic satanology
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2021 13:49:17 GMT -5
D" Jews, Christians, and Gnostics speak of the spirit You only speak of the fleshR" So are you saying one cannot be born the second time from the HS in the compassion centre? Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Being born of the HS and getting the right spirit is a daily process Dave. Yeah the birth of the flesh happen once long time ago, but the birth and rebirth of the spirit happens every time you come to GOD in prayer. and renew <chadash> a right <kuwn> spirit <ruwach> within <qereb> me. All the Hebrew words are correctly translated by the KJV. Nicodemus asked Jesus the same thing, how does one get born of the spirit? Here in Psalms is the answer. D" Only one tree was off limits – the tree of KnowledgeR" Yes because it is a power symbol representing the opposing power. RP" Does the serpent negate God's words or not?D" YES – God said you will surely die in the future – the serpent says not R Wow, Dave finally admits the serpent lied. That makes the serpent Dave the Father of lies, the chief archon who sinned long before Adam even existed. If the archon lied once in Eve's time, this archon also lied to other angels and lied in heaven and lied from the beginning. Ezekiel 28, the verses you ignore. Remember? Archon is just a descriptor of a ruler, Dave, not some description of a Creature made of matter. D"I f you think the serpent is lying – then you deny repentance and salvation / Divine pardonR" That's cheek Dave, first you said the serpent is lying, but we are not to think about the serpent lyingWhat has repentance and salvation got to do with the serpent lying about God's command not to eat? Nothing. This tells me the serpent sinned first, and disobeyed GOD. That's why the earth was in darkness and light. Because these angels were fallen and banished to earth, as Rev 12 says. In the context of heaven and earth, the messengers (malak) can only be cherub, there is nothing else mentioned in the heavens and earth. Your archon idea of being a brand new creature made of matter doesn't hold up in Scripture. The term archon simply means "ruler". D" What does this mean? To be nice and tolerant? To protect your flesh, long live the body? To donate money to the poor. To take in a homeless. To rise in stature at work and make lots of money? What does this mean?R" You did not answer the question Dave? What are good works? D"1 - Your logic says there is no such thing as a spirit of man within the biologyR" Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. The verse negates your claim, I never said no such thing. D"2- And scripture says the biology just returns to the dust - corruptibleR" So? 1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Our biology never returns to dust. We gain access to eating the fruits of the tree of life. D"3- You say the spirit within man is just the HS or God – the only incorruptible within human man is the HS or GodR" Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 ¶ And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. We are born with a spirit of bondage, and after coming to Jesus to repent, we receive the Spirit of Adoption. Both of these words have HS as a medium, but there is a change when we come to Jesus. Our characters wrought in GOD are made to be like GOD, and thus the spirit of bondage beareth witness to the Spirit of Adoption that we are children of God. SO obviously a change happens and mankind grows to become incorruptible. D"4- So when the body dies and returns to the dust – only the HS or God returns to heaven as spiritR" Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire Re 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. Upon our death of sleep, one nee ds to make sure our Names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. So the HS/spirit does not return to GOD empty handed. D" I do not need a long list of things to do to follow the Lord – to obey the Lord You just preach religion – I preach salvation through ChristR" Really? What do you know of the salvation through Jesus Christ? It's my most important theme, in fact over 90% of SPiritual SPrings talks about this theme. Such a theme is mentioned only in one verse in the OT. Habb 2:4 Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. D" I s all about being a HYPOCRITER" OK D" OK – please share with me what the ancient Hebrews had to work with – if they did not have their own writings until recentlyR" Modern Jews would say ancient Hebrew is proto-cananite writing, that Moses never wrote such stuff. They would deny this Dave. Rp"R" Really Dave, you embrace trinity, and that is a Catholic fact and term.D" H a ha ha ha ha – the expression Father, Son, and Holy Ghost came from Valentinus – who was close to becoming the Bishop of Rome, and after he lost the vote – he opened a school of theology in Rome - later excommunicated from Rome – and ALL of his writings banned.R" I see. SO you believe all this stuff written here? www.gnosticdoctrine.com/2020/06/the-valentinian-trinity-and-origins-of.htmlThe Valentinian Trinity and the origins of the Cosmos and the three Natures Whereas the orthodox Trinity was concerned with developing a theological creed out of Matthew 28:19, the Valentinian Trinity was concerned with bringing a system of meaning and structure to the wider universe. The Valentinian Trinity began with the notion of a primary dualism. The Valentinians generally believed that our universe originated from the primeval intermingling of two realms of Light and Darkness, or Spirit and Matter. The intermingling of these two substances gave birth to the Soul which is composite in nature and lives in a perpetual state of conflict. On the basis of this idea it was held that the universe was comprised of these three substances: Spirit, Matter and Soul. Rob believes the universe is comprised to two things, GOD and SPACE (nothingness in 3D).The Gnostic traditions vary on how these substances came to commingle and form the cosmos. But the underlying theme is the same: Our universe is derived from a mixture of pure light and pure darkness, and that the soul is a mixture of the two. The soul of the Demiurge, and all the souls of the celestial deities and of angels and human beings, all originate from the original Soul substance. Rob believes darkness came from SINNING. Among the Ophite sects, the Archontics, who believed in the reality of the celestial rulers, seem to have taught of an original trinity of Light, Spirit, or Ruach, and Darkness; the former they held to be completely pure. Spirit both pure and impure, and the latter, the completely impure basis of the material world. Rob notes: SO Valentinian Trinity is LIGHT, SPIRIT and DARKNESS. Elohiym powers are three members of divinity, the Provider, the Responder and the collective Son. These three collectively are LIGHT.The Sethians of whom we are treating begin with a trinity; Light, Spirit and Darkness. The Spirit is not, however, to be thought of as a breath or wind, but as it were a subtle odour spreading everywhere. All three principles then are intermingled one with another. And the Darkness strives to retain the Light and the Spirit, and imprison the light-sparks in matter; while the Light and the Spirit, on their side, strive to raise their powers aloft and rescue them from the Darkness. Rob notes: Weird. How can light exist with dark? Light exists, but dark does not exist, Einstein said this. No such thing as dark. God is light. Darkness cannot exist except GOD creates dark to exist. Hence Dark is not some primary existence. Gnosticism is so wrong. Foolish even. The basic logic behind the trinity goes like this: The Spirit or Light represented the highest and finest substance that originated from the essence of the highest and most sublime God. Matter represented death and evil, and everything that was opposed to God. The Soul is a composite substance comprised of both spiritual and material essences. Rob notes: So matter is primarily death and RA? What Can't GOD create perfect matter? Obviously not?
In Gnostic doctrine the very cosmos and the souls of humanity, and their flawed, paradoxical natures exist because at some point that which is perfectly good has combined with that which is perfectly evil. Out of these fundamental essences comes the tragically flawed reality where evil things happen to good people. It also explains why people who are in theory “ good” are capable of committing evil acts. It also explains why a “God” who is supposed to be good, and just, is yet the Creator of a world that is filled with evil and injustice. Endquote" Dave your Valentinian Trinity is the biggest pile of rubbish I have ever read. Sorry. Doesn't even get past Einstein. I will stick with science and logic and Einstein. Everytime I turn on a light, the darkness go away. Funny that. How can Darkness be a primary universal uncaused cause?
D" Your doctrine of Fallen Angels is 100% Catholic Catechism word for word You cannot deny itR" Your doctrine of Purgatory is 100% Catholic Catechism word for word You cannot deny it Really Dave, if a religion takes up Scripture and runs with this, why bag this running? D" Ahl satan is an angel of the lord in service to the lord – not made with matter – and cannot have offspringR" I see the Angelic Prosceutor in the OT and NT, is a good angel doing a bad job. The demons and devils had sinned long ago, was the serpent creature who tricked Adam and Eve to sin like them to remain trapped in their world. I see. So this prosecutor angel gets to live again in heaven ? And is never thrown into a Lake of Fire? So I thought you said the angels are programmed to praise GOD, how can a angel volunteer to be a lying medium? Must have intelligence than beyond mere robotic programming? To volunteer requires free will? Why does GOD require a prosecutor anyhow? Why is there no mention of the archons killing Job's assets? Only this prosecutor, all in thy power? Do prosecutors have power to harm? If there is a prosecutor how often does this prosecutor prosecute? judge humans? Why judge humans individually and later collectively as one big judgement? Why have judgement at all if the judgements are happening all the time? How can the prosecutor judge sins the prosecutor can't see, but God can? Who represents the human when such judgement happens? Does GOD help the wicked? or the Straight? How can the wicked get a fair trial, if the prosecutor has already judged them? Not fair. Your prosecutor thing makes a terrible mess of judgement Dave. How often does GOD judge humans? What does Scripture say? ONCE to all humans at the end of the cosmic battle, every human who ever lived is seated in a grand court room on the earth, and the throne is lifted high into space, and GOD shows the entire movie across the sky, beginning with the first sinners. The saints are judged first so they get to sit inside the city, the wicked are raised last to sit outside the city, and than the one last final judgement occurs, without no prosecutor.... Its here Re 20:11 ¶ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. The books prosecute the wicked, not some prosecutor. SHalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2021 16:57:42 GMT -5
D"Jews, Christians, and Gnostics speak of the spirit You only speak of the flesh Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. David has a biological heart already – does God make him some new biology thing RENEW my spirit is not the same as come into me so I have a spiritBeing born of the HS and getting the right spirit is a daily process Dave.I know – you want to make Christianity into a daily ritual called religion of manSame thinking as - destroy the Temple and Judaism will die outD"Only one tree was off limits – the tree of Knowledge R" Yes because (it / knowledge)is a power symbol representing the opposing power.So now you claim that knowledge is an opposing power – is this why you refuse to learn all of scripture at depthR"Does the serpent negate God's words or not? D" YES – God said you will surely die in the future – the serpent says not R Wow, Dave finally admits the serpent lied. Word man - negate means lie – deceive means lie – only in your Catholic satanology this angel satan also lied to other angels and lied in heaven and lied from the beginning. Ezekiel 28, the verses you ignore. Remember?Ezk 28 says that from the beginning your satan was a friend of God – cherished in fact – preciousOnly the Beast of revelation appeared ready to devour – from the beginning – choshek – Gen 1:2R" You did not answer the question Dave? What are good works?You pretend to not understand just so you do not have to face the truthWhat is our Job / what is our Work – to witness and produce fruit – bringing others into the reality of the One True Creator – nothing else mattersD"1- Your logic says there is no such thing as a spirit of man within the biology R" Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. The verse negates your claim, I never said no such thing. D"1- Your logic says there is no such thing as a spirit of man within the biology only the HSD"2- And scripture says the biology just returns to the dust - corruptible R" So? 1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, YEP – we will change 1Jn 3:2 Loved ones, now we are God’s children; and it has not yet been revealed what we will be. But we do know that when it’s revealed, we shall be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:What is 'our spirit'? – you mandate this verse to read the HS witnesses to The HSWe are born with a spirit of bondage, Both of these words have HS as a medium, So – your HS within man is born (disrespect #1) and born to bondage (disrespect #2)D" I do not need a long list of things to do to follow the Lord – to obey the Lord You just preach religion – I preach salvation through ChristR" Really? What do you know of the salvation through Jesus Christ?you can exit any time - ChristianRichard, rather than bag people as you do. I do not condemn or mock you. I do not condemn or mock Dave either. HypocriteD"OK – please share with me what the ancient Hebrews had to work with – if they did not have their own writings until recently R" Modern Jews would say ancient Hebrew is proto-cananite writing, that Moses never wrote such stuff. They would deny this Dave.I ask what did ancient Jews have – and you answer modern Jews denyOnce again – show me a Hasidic Jew that denies the spirit or the TorahYou say you are a Christians and Mormon’s say that Christ and your satan are twin brothersThe Sethians You say you are a Christians and Mormon’s say that Christ and your satan are twin brothersWhy do you believe this Mormon stuff? D"Your doctrine of Fallen Angels is 100% Catholic Catechism word for word You cannot deny it R" Your doctrine of Purgatory is 100% Catholic Catechism word for word You cannot deny itI absolutely do deny itAgain - you understanding of Judaism is wantingjewishencyclopedia.com/articles/12446-purgatory"In the judgment there shall be three classes of souls: the righteous shall at once be written down for the life everlasting; the wicked, for Gehenna; but those whose virtues and sins counterbalance one another shall go down to Gehenna and float up and down until they rise purified; for of them it is said: 'I will bring the third part into the fire and refine them as silver is refined, and try them as gold is tried' [Zech. xiii. 9.]; also, 'He [the Lord] bringeth down to Sheol and bringeth up again'" (I Sam. ii. 6). The Hillelites seem to have had no purgatory; for they said: "He who is 'plenteous in mercy' [Ex. xxxiv. 6.] inclines the balance toward mercy, and consequently the intermediates do not descend into Gehenna" My Purgatory – if you must call it that – is/was 100% Jewish long before RomeAgain - you understanding of Judaism is wanting------------ D"ahl satan is an angel of the lord in service to the lord – not made with matter – and cannot have offspring R" I see the Angelic Prosceutor in the OT and NT, is a good angel doing a bad job.The only agl reference to Hebrew satan = 2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of (G4566 - Σατᾶν - Of Hebrew origin [H7854]) to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. – A reminder from the Hebrew angel satan – a reminder – to buffet me (yester ra) The demons and devils had sinned long ago, was the serpent creature That violated the commandment – reproduce after our own kind Gen 6 = bane elohiym (archon of the serpent race – made with some matter) + women = Nephilim = rephiem = Sons of Anak = Amorite = 13 families So this prosecutor angel gets to live again in heaven ? And is never thrown into a Lake of Fire?Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, G4567 - Σατανᾶς – Satanas - Of Chaldee origin - that is, the devil: Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. All archon – no angels created to serve and praise the Lord here - all archon of family beastSo I thought you said the angels are programmed to praise GOD, how can a angel volunteer to be a lying medium? Must have intelligence than beyond mere robotic programming? Intelligence has nothing to do with spirit Intelligence is a function of the brain / body / biologyWhy does GOD require a prosecutor anyhow?To separate the believers from the First Fruits – from the wicked – as you cross the vail into heaven Why is there no mention of the archons killing Job's assets?Why is there no mention of your satan killing Jobs assetsJob 1:13 One day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, Job 1:14 a messenger came to Job, saying, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing near them, Job 1:15 when the Sabeans attacked and carried them off. They also killed the servants with the edge of the sword—I alone escaped to tell you!” The Sabeans are men – not satanJob 1:16 While this one was still speaking another came in and said, “The fire of God has fallen from heaven and has burned up the sheep and servants—it has consumed them, and I—I alone—escaped to tell you!” Fire from God – not satanJob 1:17 While this one was still speaking another came in and said, “The Chaldeans formed three bands and raided the camels and took them all away. They also killed the servants with the edge of the sword, and I—only I alone—escaped to tell you!” The Chaldeans are men – not satanJob 1:18 While this one was still speaking another came in and said, “Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine at their oldest brother’s house Job 1:19 when suddenly a mighty wind came from beyond the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it collapsed on the young people and they died. And I—only I alone—escaped to tell you!” Wind – not your satanJob 2:7 So the satan departed from the presence of Adonai, and afflicted Job with painful boils, from the sole of his foot to the top of his head. Only this prosecutor, all in thy power? Do prosecutors have power to harm?No – but who are we told that does cause disease, that do control the World – LIGHTENING / WIND Beelzebub and his shedim = archonBook of Jubilees 10:8. And the chief of the spirits, Mastêmâ, 2 came and said: "Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them hearken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men; for these are for corruption and leading astray before my judgment, for great is the wickedness of the sons of men." 9. And He said: "Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation." 3 10. And one of us 4 He commanded that we should teach Noah all their medicines; for He knew that they would not walk in uprightness, nor strive in righteousness. 11. And we did according to all His words: all the malignant evil ones we bound in the place of condemnation, and a tenth part of them we left that they might be subject before Satan 5 on the earth. 12. And we explained to Noah all the medicines of their diseases, together with their seductions, how he might heal them with herbs of the earth. 13. And Noah wrote down all things in a book as we instructed him concerning every kind of medicine. Thus the evil God told Hebrew satan the prosecutor - Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. Hebrew satan was allowed – told to – use everything the archon are not angels – they are creatures of matter –and can be used by Hebrew satan If there is a prosecutor how often does this prosecutor prosecute? judge humans?Upon the first death / mortal death – or when told to by GodWhy judge humans individually and later collectively as one big judgement?First death + Second death and second chance – repentance and salvation by purification Why have judgement at all To allow on the First Fruits into the Bosom of Abraham Everyone else – Proportional PunishmentWho represents the human when such judgement happens? Does GOD help the wicked? or the Straight?Christ does – and salvation is available to the wicked after repentance Who is straight – there are none righteous – no not one How can the wicked get a fair trial, if the prosecutor has already judge them? Not fair.Correct there is nothing fair about absolute eternal damnation for one small sin – might as well be a Hitler – or an anti-ChristCorrect – there is nothing fair about one punishment for all sin – eternal damnationWhat is fair – to each man his due –Proportional Punishment – purification by fireHow often does GOD judge humans? What does Scripture say?Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: And many survive this judgment because there they are in heaven – serving the Lord near His throne Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. If those at the First resurrection were not First Fruits – but yet end up reigning with the Lord then they must also be saved – Pardoned – Why do they wait for the First resurrection? Answer – Proportional PunishmentGod is fair - everyone gets the same chance at salvation Some - like the Apoistile paul and many others - are Born Again - First fruits - no longer beliverd but knowers (gnosis) Others die as believers - yet doubt - or taught to doubt - or placed all their faith in the wrong god What is fair for them = Deeds + works + fruit = each man his due = Proportional Punishment Many die - never hearing the word - what is fair for them - deeds, works, fruit Some - pretend to be believers and preach false prophesies = false prophets For them the Judgment is even worse God is fair - everyone gets the same chance at salvationEven opens the possiblility for a 'do-over'
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2021 14:12:25 GMT -5
D" I know – you want to make Christianity into a daily ritual called religion of man Same thinking as - destroy the Temple and Judaism will die out David has a biological heart already – does God make him some new biology thing RENEW my spirit is not the same as come into me so I have a spirit R" Is there anything we agree on here Dave? First your biological heart is fallen, corrupt and leads one to sin, so therefore needs restoration. So the propensities of the flesh (inside the DNA / epigenetics) has to be removed, and they are by Jesus one at a time. This is a creative process by the HS in the compassion centre. Secondly the term "spirit" refers also to "nashamah" the "wind in man", his character, so our character also that comes out of our biology and our mind, requires a change also. Our character or spirit must be the same as Jesus.
When Jesus said unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, what does this idea mean to you? Curious?
D"So now you claim that knowledge is an opposing power – is this why you refuse to learn all of scripture at depth R" No not knowledge Dave, but knowledge of RA, the tree includes the things of GOD and the nonexistent things of GOD, the Ra, from sin. Why do we want to know these things? We don't. Nothing good about sin and ra.
D"Word man - negate means lie – deceive means lie – only in your Catholic satanology R"negate [nəˈɡāt] VERB nullify; make ineffective. "alcohol negates the effects of the drug" synonyms: invalidate · nullify · render null and void · render invalid · make ineffective · [more] logic grammar make (a clause, sentence, or proposition) negative in meaning. deny the existence of (something). "negating the political nature of education" synonyms: deny · dispute · call into question · contradict · refute · rebut · discredit · disclaim · reject · repudiate · gainsay · controvert
D"Ezk 28 says that from the beginning your satan was a friend of God – cherished in fact – precious R" Dave you do not even use the terms in Hebrew correctly, an opposer can never be a friend.
In the beginning one angel was indeed the closest to GOD, in charge of the entire angels and the laws of GOD. Such an angel was indeed a friend of GOD. But for reasons unknown, this dearest friend began to sin. And after the sinning was fully completed, the angel opposed God and became an opposer of GOD. This is what the Hebrew word means. Just as God opposed Baalim because as a sinning prophet he would have cursed Israel, so God opposed him as an opposer, and forced Baalim to bless Israel instead. So the term is not an Name, its a condition of being something. In the beginning some being began to oppose God. That by the way is exactly what sinning is, an action where creatures oppose GOD. Yet you say from your trinity term, that the three great uncaused causes are "light, spirit and darkness". DO you really support this idea? So darkness or RA is a great uncaused cause the light of GOD puts up with? I don't think so.
Darkness Einstein says does not exist ever under GOD normally. Not sure of "spirit" here, so leave comments about this... but light and dark is easy to comment upon.
SO that makes me a monotheistic than, for me the great uncaused cause is just light. I will assume both of us also consider SPACE as a fundamental, the idea of nothing. I just have light.
Darkness is a derivative from light, therefore not a universal constant. GOD does not put up with darkness or friction or chaos or anything imperfect. And if any of these things exist, than some sinning must be present.
D"Only the Beast of revelation appeared ready to devour – from the beginning – choshek – Gen 1:2 R" SO in your view, the first archon was immediately sinning and designed that way, because GOD designed sin into the archon from it's conception? Do you support this ?
Than you do not have sin as a choice Dave for archons? They do as they were programmed to do, like a lion that kills from natural ra? SO if man is the only creature ever to have free will, why not create man as a robot just like all the other creatures who are also robots? Why do you limit free will to only man? Why do you exclude angels?
D"You pretend to not understand just so you do not have to face the truth R" Dave I asked you a question that is the ultimate of all questions? What are good works?
D" What is our Job / what is our Work – to witness and produce fruit – bringing others into the reality of the One True Creator – nothing else matters R" Where does the Scripture say this exactly?
D"D"1- Your logic says there is no such thing as a spirit of man within the biology only the HS R" Well there is man's character within him, is this not "spirit" ?
D" YEP – we will change R" what changes ? Dave? You did not say?
D" it has not yet been revealed what we will be. R" Oh, so you don't know if we have a renewed body in heaven, or just some "spirit thing" ?
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
My understanding of the life for life, body for body, when you come to Jesus, there is an exchange of our life for His life, and our body for his body, this is what the sacrifice was for... our sinful body is laid upon Jesus and we take up his sinless body, the same one Jesus walked in on the earth, this body was sinless and just like Adam had before Adam sinned. (At least in a spiritual sense, whatever that term means?) John is talking about the finer details of this body is not revealed... for example how Jesus walked right through walls into a house and said greetings. Yet Thomas touched his same body with scars.
Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Same ideas here. D"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: What is 'our spirit'? – you mandate this verse to read the HS witnesses to The HS R" Yes, the HS of GOD witnesses to the HS living in us that our characters (spirit) has changed.
1) the HS of GOD is the administration of Jesus flowing into us 2) to the HS living in us is our old natures we allow Jesus to change into His character and nature.
D"So – your HS within man is born (disrespect #1) and born to bondage (disrespect #2) R" Can you read English and quote me correctly?
We are born with a spirit of bondage, is what I said, Humans are born with a spirit of bondage. R"R" Really? What do you know of the salvation through Jesus Christ? D" you can exit any time - Christian R" I am sorry if you misread my words, I am asking you what you know of the term "salvation through Jesus"?
Not if you are saved or not saved. That is personal. I am not asking you this.
I wish to test my own understanding of amanuah , as much as you also would know?
None of us would want to be deceived, even me, so I would like to know.... I can't get anybody to discuss such things with me, you would be the first person. Most people have no, or little understanding... even I also have little understanding... so I asked you what do you know of the salvation of Jesus? As Scripture shows it to you?
Begin with amanuah, where does amanuah come from and how do we get amanuah every day? DO we need amanuah every day?
D" My Purgatory – if you must call it that – is/was 100% Jewish long before Rome R" I see. Sorry. So if the Jews write things down long before Rome wrote them down, than the doctrine is Jewish. So why do you mix Jewish stuff and Gnostic stuff, which was written down later? Why don't you just follow the Jewish stuff from Moses written down stuff? which was written down the longest in time?
D"Intelligence has nothing to do with spirit Intelligence is a function of the brain / body / biology R" OK so how does this angel volunteer to do something else that it was not programmed to be?
D"To separate the believers from the First Fruits – from the wicked – as you cross the vail into heaven
R" SO God needs a prosecutor for this? Why can't God chose the right ones Himself? Surely a prosecutor can't see every sin, what happens if there is a mistake? God never makes mistakes, a prosecutor surely could? Or it this angel a robotic programme of perfect precision?
RP"Why is there no mention of the archons killing Job's assets? D" Why is there no mention of your satan killing Jobs assets The Sabeans are men – not satan Fire from God – not satan The Chaldeans are men – not satan Wind – not your satan Yes Dave you raise a strong point here. The wind here is the ruwach (HS) medium. Sure these things are written in the context of GOD. And yes GOD creates RA. So all things must flow through the medium of GOD. But WHOM is the flow? Who is the origin of this flow? Job 1:12 ..Behold, all that he hath is in thy power;
The book suggests to me that the flow power comes from this OPPOSER/ OPPONENT.
D" Why is there no mention of your satan killing Jobs assets R" there is , Job 1:12 ..Behold, all that he hath is in thy power;
RP" Do prosecutors have power to harm? D" No R" Why do you disagree Dave? Job 1:12 ..Behold, all that he hath is in thy power;
Surely this so called prosecutor instigated this destruction of Job's assets?
Rp" If there is a prosecutor how often does this prosecutor prosecute? judge humans? D" Upon the first death / mortal death R" But Dave something wrong? Your so called prosecutor prosecutes Job before Job dies? So how often does this prosecutor prosecute? judge humans? every day, every time we sin?
D" Why judge humans individually and later collectively as one big judgement? First death + Second death and second chance – repentance and salvation by purification R" I see. Dave there is no second chance of salvation. The raising of the dead is to meet their judgment, and judgement happens ONCE .
If GOD was visible to humans every day, we would repent from fear, not love.
So when we die we see GOD visibly and repent from fear, not love.
Than you raise the idea the "spirit thing" can exist without it's body? Really weird.
Moses went to heaven in his body... so did Enoch ...so did Jesus...
Its called a resurrection... if the spirit is already there, what is a resurrection all about than?
RP " Why have judgement at all D" To allow on the First Fruits into the Bosom of Abraham Everyone else – Proportional Punishment
R" I see. you do not care to explain all this using Bible texts?
RP" Who represents the human when such judgement happens? Does GOD help the wicked? or the Straight? D" Christ does – and salvation is available to the wicked after repentance R" Really? I don't think so. Mt 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Jesus does not help a wicked person after he dies.
Joh 13:18 ¶ I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Jesus does not help a wicked person after he dies.
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Like the humans who destroyed JOb's assets, the sin comes from a greater power, from your myth, the prosecutor.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Only while we are living, can we choose salvation.
2Co 6:2 ..behold, now is the day of salvation.
Re 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. (KJV)
SO your prosecutor must be busy day and night prosecuting humans of their sinning. We have 6,000,000 humans today with possibly 1000 missing's per day, so the prosecutor has to busy himself with 6 trillion mentions in court every day, that one be faster than a computer talks, at one condemnation per pica second.
No Dave, it is not possible for a creature to handle this processing, so God does it alone, but some of the angels in heaven do write down things for their interest in the matter. D"Correct – there is nothing fair about one punishment for all sin R" OK so how does the wicked get a fair trial?
D" Proportional Punishment – purification by fire R" OK texts please...
D"God is fair - everyone gets the same chance at salvation Even opens the possiblility for a 'do-over' R" Really? Texts please? Ro 2:15 ..., their conscience also bearing witness,
If the HS speaks to all humans via the conscience while they are alive, and nothing happens, why does GOD require another chance? humans see GOD visibly will repent from fear? not love?
Every day the HS speaks to the wicked, and every day they (the wicked) drown out the still small voice of GOD. So your theories are false.. what else can GOD do now?
Lu 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
what else can GOD do now? For us today Hab 1:5 ¶ Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for I will work a work in your days, which ye will not believe, though it be told you. 6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans,
God raises up the opposing powers, to give man a hard trouble time, to wake them from sleep. Not all of us a second chance after we die. Shalom
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2021 16:52:51 GMT -5
David has a biological heart already – does God make him some new biology thing RENEW my spirit is not the same as come into me so I have a spirit R" Is there anything we agree on here Dave? Your point MAN HAS NO SPIRIT – no such thing as the SPIRIT OF MAN D"1- Your logic says there is no such thing as a spirit of man within the biology R" Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. According to you ‘our spirit’ is just the HSPsa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Question #1 – what was wrong with the HS that it needed to be renewedRENEW my spirit is not the same as come into me so I have a spirit Our character or spirit must be the same as Jesus.Your point MAN HAS NO SPIRIT – no such thing as the SPIRIT OF MAN D"1- Your logic says there is no such thing as a spirit of man within the biology R" Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. According to you ‘our spirit’ is just the HSNOT CONSISTANT ROBERT Choose a theology and stick with it When Jesus said unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, what does this idea mean to you? Curious?I belive in the spiritGosple of Phillip"He who shall not eat my flesh and drink my blood has not life in him" (Jn 6:53). What is it? His flesh is the word, and his blood is the Holy Spirit. He who has received these has food and he has drink and clothing. Communion is not a church ritual with wine and crackers Communion is communing in spirit with the spirit I teach my girls we can do it with a soft drink and french fries in the parking lot all alone by ourselves - just us and God - what more does anyone need!D"So now you claim that knowledge is an opposing power – is this why you refuse to learn all of scripture at depth R" No not knowledge Dave, but knowledge of RA, the tree includes the things of GOD and the nonexistent things of GOD, the Ra, from sin. Why do we want to know these things? We don't. Nothing good about sin and ra. You are so sick with your satamnology The tree was also the Tree of Knowledge of tov also You just keep leaving that our because it doesn’t fit D"Word man - negate means lie – deceive means lie – only in your Catholic satanology I am speaking of the word deceive and you know it So you argue the Word NOT
D"Ezk 28 says that from the beginning your satan was a friend of God – cherished in fact – precious R" Dave you do not even use the terms in Hebrew correctly, an opposer can never be a friend. In the beginning one angel was indeed the closest to GOD, in charge of the entire angels and the laws of GOD. Such an angel was indeed a friend of GOD. Please pick one theology and stick with itYet you say from your trinity term, that the three great uncaused causes are "light, spirit and darkness". DO you really support this idea? So darkness or RA is a great uncaused cause the light of GOD puts up with? Quote me Robert – a little academic honesty would be helpfulD"Only the Beast of revelation appeared ready to devour – from the beginning – choshek – Gen 1:2 R" SO in your view, the first archon was immediately sinning and design that way, because GOD designed sin into the archon from it's conception? Do you support this ? There ya go – misrepresent me yet againD"Only the Beast of revelation appeared ready to devour – from the beginning – choshek – Gen 1:2 Correct – this is what scripture tells us – I believe scriptureR" SO in your view, the first archon was immediately sinning and design that way,Quote me – or stop putting words in my mouth The sinning angels are the bane elohiym and Nephilim of Gen 6 Their transgression of the law = reproduce after you own kindWhen the Beast appeared – did it sin – its first thought was only of self As are all creatures of matter / biology – self-preservation instinct comes with physicality is it a sin to be a cow?Than you do not have sin as a choice Dave for archons? They do as they were programmed to do, like a lion that kills from natural ra? Yes – they just do what they do – love world – promote world Until they took on mortal form - changed their form to mate with women – Gen 6SO if man is the only creature ever to have free will, why not create man as a robot Free Will is the freedom Not to be a robotjust like all the other creatures who are also robots? Is a cow, a termite, or a bacteria a robot – only to their own biologyD"You pretend to not understand just so you do not have to face the truth R" Dave I asked you a question that is the ultimate of all questions? What are good works? D"What is our Job / what is our Work – to witness and produce fruit – bringing others into the reality of the One True Creator – nothing else matters R" Where does the Scripture say this exactly?And you call yourself a Christian?You have never been taught this? Seriously? What is evangelism? You said you were a missionary – why?D"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:What is 'our spirit'? – you mandate this verse to read the HS witnesses to The HS R" Yes, the HS of GOD witnesses to the HS living in us that our characters (spirit) has changed.What is our characters spirit – you say it does not exist were are just the HSD"So – your HS within man is born (disrespect #1) and born to bondage (disrespect #2) R" Can you read English and quote me correctly? We are born with a spirit of bondage, is what I said,YES and you argure that ‘our spirit’ is just the HS – therefore the HS is born with a spirit of bondageYou cannot have it both ways Man has no spirit or man does have a spirit Please choose one theology and stick with itI wish to test my own understanding of amanuah , as much as you also would know?Your refuse to post your views – you just want to ridicule Richard and chase him awayD" My Purgatory – if you must call it that – is/was 100% Jewish long before Rome R" I see. Sorry. So if the Jews write things down long before Rome wrote them down, than the doctrine is Jewish. Where does the concept come from – Judaism or Rome? Fallen Angels – where does the concept come from – Judaism or Rome?So why do you mix Jewish stuff and Gnostic stuff, which was written down later? The Nag Hammadi was written by the same authors as the agl – they were all Messianic Jews save Luke These men walked and talked and worshiped with Jesus Christ both before and afterWhy don't you just follow the Jewish stuff from Moses written down stuff? which was written down the longest in time?Because I accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah and embrace the agl as inspiredD"Intelligence has nothing to do with spirit Intelligence is a function of the brain / body / biology R" OK so how does this angel volunteer to do something else that it was not programmed to be? Why do you require angles to be stupid – they more about reality than you do That angel of 1 Kings 22 was programmed / created to serve and praise I have asked you over and over – why is it a sin to obey and serve the lordD"To separate the believers from the First Fruits – from the wicked – as you cross the vail into heaven SO God needs a prosecutor for this? Why can't God chose the right ones Himself? Enoch tells us that God delegated different responsibilities to different angels Why do you require your God to do everything by HimselfWhy didn’t God test Job directly Why didn’t God kill all the first born Egyptian by HimselfD" Why is there no mention of your satan killing Jobs assets The Sabeans are men – not satan Fire from God – not satan The Chaldeans are men – not satan Wind – not your satan Yes Dave you raise a strong point here. The wind here is the ruwach (HS) medium.Sure these things are written in the context of GOD. And yes GOD creates RA. So all things must flow through the medium of GOD. But WHOM is the flow? Who is the origin of this flow? So your God / HS / ruawach killed Jobs children – why do you need to blame it upon Hebrew satanRp" If there is a prosecutor how often does this prosecutor prosecute? judge humans? D" Upon the first death / mortal death R" But Dave something wrong? Your so called prosecutor prosecutes Job before Job dies?If there is a prosecutor how often does this prosecutor prosecute? judge humans? Upon the first death / mortal death – or when told to by God You should try some academic honesty – it will answer many of your own questionsNo Dave, it is not possible for a creature to handle this processing, so God does it alone, Except in the biblical example where the prosecutor is mentioned
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Post by Richard on Aug 11, 2021 12:57:08 GMT -5
D"You pretend to not understand just so you do not have to face the truth R" Dave I asked you a question that is the ultimate of all questions? What are good works? D"What is our Job / what is our Work – to witness and produce fruit – bringing others into the reality of the One True Creator – nothing else matters R" Where does the Scripture say this exactly?
And you call yourself a Christian? You have never been taught this? Seriously? What is evangelism? You said you were a missionary – why?
Robert, I do not mean to offend. But sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade.
Why were you a missionary? Did you do it to save another? Did you face dangers of war, jungle, and pagans just to whisper the word to one soul? Or did you do it to make brownie points on your Christian scorecard?
How to live your faith? Is the same question as how to love the lord. How do you love the lord? Only in prayer? Or 24/7? You are either living your faith because you love the lord, or you are practicing a religion. How should we love the lord? Learn of him as much as possible. Not from Dave, not from me, not from a book somewhere, but from the word of god.
We recommend a yearly read through, every year; and we frown on quick and easy guides. There are many daily devotionals and even yearly reading guides; but each commercial publication comes with an agenda. Dave is right about propaganda. Baptist publications do not read the same as catholic publications or the Watchtower. So we recommend none! There is no substitute for reading and digesting it yourself.
As we read scripture, do we understand it immediately? Everyone has questions! Many newcomers want to bring those questions to church. We say church time is fellowship time and time to praise. Hoe can you fully praise with question weighing on your heart?
We say, bring those questions to study! Why ask questions? Because there are many people that have the exact same question, but are too shy to ask. Or timmid to be wrong or ignorant in front of a group. But it is the search of our questions that we find the deepest meanings.
Dave and I are in agreement. God came to earth as a man named Jesus. He risked his mortal life to witness to me and you 2000 years later. He paid for that witness with his mortal life.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, that ye love one another, even as I have loved you. Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Once we call ourselves disciples, what are we to do?
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come. Mat 9:37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest indeed is plenteous, but the laborers are few. Mat 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he send forth laborers into his harvest.
Luk 10:2 And he said unto them, The harvest indeed is plenteous, but the laborers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he send forth laborers into his harvest. Luk 10:3 Go your ways; behold, I send you forth as lambs in the midst of wolves.
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:
To do what Robert? To witness!
Is there a wrong way to witness, we say yes, do not let the church tell you what to think. Read it, study it, know it and you will know him. If you walk with him, he is with you, trust it! If you are walking with him you are living your faith. Just pray you are not tested as viciously as Job or Jesus or Paul, or Peter, or James who were all martyred. Islam asks you to deny Christ or lose your head
Are you ready and willing to stick your neck out without reservation or doubt? Why does god test humanity? To separate the wheat from the chaff!
I love to talk about my used car salesman. There are three in our fellowship and I have bought cars from two of them. I agree with Dave, they are not allowed to lie; but they make a career out of being deceptive. They will say it is just business, but others in our fellowship have bought cars from them they cannot afford, and time have changed. When does profit outweigh being a good neighbor?
Do not let me stop you Robert. If you have a secret method of acquiring Christ in your life daily, please tell us.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2021 13:29:23 GMT -5
I like what you wrote Richard, it's nice and comfortable. We witness. I get that. Maybe we witness as best as we can for our Lord.
We read our Bibles and bring questions into the discussion, I get that.
But I wish to ask you of the deeper finer details? Why? Because many are fearful their walk in the Lord may not be right after all?
Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
Re 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Mt 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mt 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
In our world, our prophet Mrs White says not 1 in 20 SDA so called are saved, the vast majority do not truly follow the Lord.
These verses suggest we may be doing things wrong, and I wish to ask you about this?
Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
This word in Hebrew is subdue, or in English is surrender. Most of us do not surrender to the Lord. What is surrender?
Many so called pious expect our wives to surrender to the husband.
1Pe 3:1 ¶ Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands;
Same word, surrender, subdue.
Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Here is the word "pistis" or the Hebrew word "amanuah" or in English "faith".
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
The word "believeth" is the same as "pistis" or "amanuah" its a family of words all having the same basic idea as "faith".
So I would like your Bible comments on the meanings and applications of surrender and faith, these are in our world the biggest things to understand.
Thanks for your comments and post Richard. Shalom
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2021 14:38:53 GMT -5
A second posting to be answered by Dave Rp" DO you really support this idea? So darkness or RA is a great uncaused cause the light of GOD puts up with?D" Quote me Robert – a little academic honesty would be helpfulR" OK sorry. than quote so I can understand you, write and explain so I get you meanings. You are curtly and so brief that I have little understanding. I ask you many questions. Isa 45:7 God creates darkness: God creates ra. I the YHWH do. 1) This is not a fundmantal because God creates them. 2) Darkness and RA are similes of each other. 3) Bara, create means to engineer things from other things. 4) So where does this darkness and ra come from? 5) You have the idea of bara to mean fill or fatten? SO where is the vessel of darkness or ra, from which God fills or fattens them, same as above idea. 6) Some other creature apart from GOD has to desire darkness and ra, for God to create them. 7) I have postulated that darkness or ra (same thing) comes from SIN, and this some SINNING creature wishes God to create the fruits of their sinning, so the imaginary can become visible to both God and Sinner. These are my thoughts, all questions. Please discuss your ideas from these 7 points. Shalom D" Only the Beast of revelation appeared ready to devour – from the beginning – choshek – Gen 1:2R" so the beast Yalboath was ready to devour darkness? self appeared? But this is not considered sin Dave? D" The sinning angels are the bane elohiym and Nephilim of Gen 6R" SO we introduce a second origin of darkness? Angels doing Gen 6? Book of Enoch says angels, but you seem to think it's wrongly named? Maybe the beast Yalboath was ready to devour darkness? caused the other archon creatures to emerge from sexual depravity with the humans in Gen 6 ? Does GOD allow such amalgamation of the beast Yalboath with humans? This would be an abomination? D" is it a sin to be a cow? its first thought was only of self?R" So darkness is a natural instinct? something God created for some creatures, and this is OK? like some ra aspect, but a natural ra aspect. So you introduce the idea of what I have discussed with you, natural ra for some animals like the cow, the lion and the archon from Yalboath? evening doing such amalgamation of the beast Yalboath with humans? so natural RA is all OK, because GOD uses natural ra? But for man under free will, moral ra is not allowed , man has to follow moral TOV, not moral RA? Does the darkness split in this way, is there a natural darkness and a moral darkness? Or are these ideas the same , we call them a simile? I have postulated that preumbra is natural shadows but umbra are unnatural, the result of missing GOD, ie SIN. Therefore darkness, or RA, or umbra shadows stem from SIN. But you ignore this idea, and my experiments with darkness and light, as shown to you many times, but you do not even read them? 1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. Meaning? spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htmPlease read my study so at least you can answer my logic on shadows, RA and darkness. D" Yes – they just do what they do – love world – promote world Until they took on mortal form - changed their form to mate with women – Gen 6R" so these archon rulers of darkness are programmed to love ra and the world, mating with humans so the humans also love darkness and the world also. D" Free Will is the freedom Not to be a robotR" OK, so why limit freedom only to humans? I listen to the bird singing every walk to work, with voices of praise. Is this mere programming instinct? Or free will freedom to respond to God's love? Can tree talk and sing praises to God too? I like to say yes to both. You limit God Dave, to man being the only creature under the creation of multiply worlds as the only creature to have freedom. All the others are mere programmes, robots. Your God must be weak. D" What is our characters spirit ?R" Didn't I answer this many times before? 1) the HS of GOD is the administration (medium- ruwach) of Jesus flowing into us 2) to the HS (ruwach-medium) living in us is our old natures (nashamah) we allow Jesus to change into His character and nature. Ge 7:22 All in whose nostrils <'aph> was the breath <n@shamah> <ruwach> of life <chay> Both <n@shamah> <ruwach> are two Hebrew words used for "breath", from which makes three meanings for wind, 1) ordinary wind 2) special wind (HS) 3) breathing wind (our human characters) what makes us who we are Sadly all this is often translated as "spirit". D" Your refuse to post your views – you just want to ridicule Richard and chase him awayR" No Dave, I would not mock or be unkind to anybody. Once I debated a Catholic called barbarian in a forum over evolution for weeks and weeks, with kindness, amazing the forum staff. D" The Nag Hammadi was written by the same authors as the agl – they were all Messianic Jews save LukeR" Really? SO Peter wrote Gnostic writings? And James? and even Paul? show me some writings of them D" Because I accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah and embrace the agl as inspiredR" Didn't Jesus also write the OT in Hebrew? D" Why do you require your God to do everything by HimselfR" no you do because angels are not free and have no freedom to do anything except as robots what they are progammed to do. D" So your God / HS / ruawach killed Jobs children – why do you need to blame it upon Hebrew satanR" What is a medium Dave? spiritualsprings.org/ss-1384.htm COnsider this study, towards the end of the webpage One might find this Agency or Medium mystery of the Holy Spirit confusing.
In this picture we have Air, Water, and a 'straw of salvation' coming from the Father, 'His' straw. Air and water are media, or symbols of the Holy Spirit. The cup is a person called R. The medium effect causes the observation, so the 'medium effect' are your eyes looking at this picture. The Father' straw looks bent in the water. What causes the bending?
The 'angel of mercy'.....Why mercy? Read the presentation and pictures. The Father's power enters the medium of the Holy Spirit, and this is what we see. It is God's work on R. Or 'His' way.
Ellen White says this on the next sentence.
...I saw that the angel of mercy was winging his way from R. I was shown that the rebellion started there. God marked the families engaged in this work, ...
Why God's work rather than the Father's work? Because the picture of R. we saw as a 'cup' with 'salvation' was not caused by the Father's light alone, nor by the Holy Spirit as water or air alone. No. The medium effect is caused by the Father entering the Holy Spirit as an Agency and leaving the Holy Spirit as an Agency, and this we see is GOD's work. It is referenced as "His work" because the Father expresses maleness-love. D" You should try some academic honesty – it will answer many of your own questionsR" Dave it is near impossible for a creature to write, fathom or prosecute sinners sinning on a daily, weekly or end of the mortal life basis. That is why only GOD judges the wicked, not needing a prosecutor? Imagine dealing with 6 trillion sins per year, is there a time big enough to process this is a court room? Your creature prosecutor thing is a myth. Sure the oppose opposes GOD saving souls from sin, because the process of saving such souls causes a reason to end the kingdom of darkness. Is the darkness of kingdom with a king ? yes Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: (KJV) Notice the king of darkness has human children of darkness What happens to them? Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Both humans of darkness and angels of darkness are no longer, no more. spiritualsprings.org/ss-759.htmHow is darkness made? Using the creative aspects of GOD? A simple experiment shows you how. When you place a pen on your desk, the light makes a fully dark region called an umbra shadow. But if you lift the pen toward the light from the ceiling, the light penetrates into the umbra shadow making a second shadow that is less dark with more light, a pre-umbra shadow. The umbra shadow is made from regions of no light. The pre-umbra is made from areas of some light, penetrating into the umbra shadow. Not all the light can fall into the pre-umbra region since the object still blocks some of the light. I postulate a focal point, cross over point, from which the Hebrew word hebrew means, to cross over. Read the studies Dave. D" Except in the biblical example where the prosecutor is mentionedR" Really ? where? Zec 3:1 I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. Does a prosecutor remove SIN in one day? No Something wrong with your term. Re 12:10 accuser of our brethren. kategoros,
Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? Ac 23:35 I will hear thee, said he, when thine accusers are also come. And he commanded him to be kept in Herod's judgment hall. (KJV) Ac 24:8 Commanding his accusers to come unto thee: Ac 25:18 Against whom when the accusers stood up, they brought none accusation of such things as I supposed: Now we can quibble over kategoros, but it does not suggest GOD requires one for His judging of the wicked at the end of time. Zec 3:1 was done at the end of the day of atonement? Something wrong with your term. Shalom
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Post by Richard on Aug 12, 2021 15:46:56 GMT -5
I like what you wrote Richard, it's nice and comfortable. We witness. I get that. Maybe we witness as best as we can for our Lord.
We read our Bibles and bring questions into the discussion, I get that.
But I wish to ask you of the deeper finer details? Why? Because many are fearful their walk in the Lord may not be right after all?
I do not know you as David does, but I have to wonder why after all this time you doubt?
In our world, our prophet Mrs White says not 1 in 20 SDA so called are saved, the vast majority do not truly follow the Lord. These verses suggest we may be doing things wrong, and I wish to ask you about this?
Your organization preaches against the spirit, it doesn’t surprise me that many of fail to find the spirit.
Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Why are there so many different types of churches with so many different types of theology?
Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
If you live the law, you no longer have to refer to the law. I am a Christian, if there is someone in front of me with need, do I have to consult a rule book?
Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
If your heart is living it, your mouth speaks it, naturally, because your mind it thinking it. You have said some very outrageous statements about Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit Do you speak of your wife that way? If not, why not? Is it because you love her?
So I would like your Bible comments on the meanings and applications of surrender and faith, these are in our world the biggest things to understand.
If you and I were to have this conversation, we would need to first establish who it is you are surrendering to. I do not have as many gods to choose from as you do.
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