|
Post by Dave on May 29, 2021 19:44:41 GMT -5
Question #40 Rom 5:12 (KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Rom 5:13 (TLV) For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law. Rom 5:13 (YLT) for till law sin was in the world: and sin is not reckoned when there is not law; Rom 5:13 (ASV) for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law Where there is no LAW – there is no SIN BUT Eve (the feminine), Adam, man, every man, any man, mankind chose to live under LAW A - SDA doctrine, as Robert has presents it, says before Eve took a bit - there was no sin in the WORLD and therefore no ra in the world - because ra is always the result of sin Is this correct Robert?B - Then he has another side doctrine suggesting that cherub chata and his "Fallen Angels" are on the earth - before Eve so the serpent can temp Eve A and B are contradictory – it cannot be bothVEGETERIAN SHARKSRobert and I have argued round and round about VEGETERIAN SHARKS Robert says – there was no ra before Eve – ra is the result of sin Therefore all the SHARKS were VEGETERIAN – Lion did not hunt – and the T-Rex was a herbivoreRom 5:13 (TLV) For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law. Sorry Robert – your SDA doctrine as you present is not consistent with scripture
Please explain you concept of VEGETERIAN SHARKS again in light of Rom 5:13
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2021 17:05:35 GMT -5
Ro 5:13 (For <gar> until <achri> the law <nomos> sin <hamartia> was <en> in <en> the world <kosmos>: but <de> sin <hamartia> is <ellogeo> not <ou> imputed <ellogeo> when there is <on> no <me> law <nomos>. You do not like to place ROOT words inside the English, but I like this, because one has to verify the correct meanings of each Greek/Hebrew is correct. "law" nomos is torah, meaning teachings, which teachings are here in this verse? "sin" hamartia is chattaah , meaning "sin-offering", not "sin" or chata, so here we are dealing with teachings that deal with how to atone for your sinning, ie, the ceremonial teachings. You raise a question: D"A - SDA doctrine, as Robert has presents it, says before Eve took a bite - there was no sin in the WORLD and therefore no ra in the world - because ra is always the result of sin
Is this correct Robert?Rob replies" Yes, but sin did not come with it's curse until Adam transgressed the law. Also you say D" and therefore no ra in the world R" Ra (as a result from some sinning) was already in the world, darkness, from angels banished to earth, long ago from the war in heaven. Some Creation for man, was founded around some ra elements, it seems? D" Therefore all the SHARKS were VEGETARIAN – Lion did not hunt – and the T-Rex was a herbivore, R" Before sin, correct. D" Then he has another side doctrine suggesting that cherub chata and his "Fallen Angels" are on the earth - before Eve so the serpent can temp EveR" I see what your saying. Obviously some ra existed because sin already existed on earth. But GOD created a new creation over the RA and sin already there for man, who was sinless, thus for man there was no ra and no sin in all of this Creation. Here is a link to a couple writing some things, some I totally disagree with, but others seem OK, it may help you godsplanforall.com/free-online-book/part-ii/chapter-16-hebrew-and-greek-words-mistranslated-to-mean-hell/I quote" The truth of the Bible is that Satan and his angels sinned by rebelling against God during the Pre-Adamic Age, when they rose up from the earth to heaven to try to usurp God’s throne. God cast them back down to earth and completely destroyed all Pre-Adamic life on earth. The earth was flooded, thrown into complete darkness and frozen, and God confined Satan and his fallen angels to this dark, chaotic and ruined earth (Genesis 1:2). It was the earth, in this state, which was tartarus, the physical and spiritual prison of darkness for Satan and his fallen angels.
When God renewed the face of the earth and its heaven (earth’s atmosphere) at the beginning of the Adamic Age (Genesis 1:3-31), approximately six thousand years ago, Satan and his fallen angels received a relative degree of physical freedom when they became the spirits of the air, able to roam the earth’s surface to tempt and deceive mankind. However, their movement is still confined to earth and its heaven (earth’s atmosphere) and they remain chained in a prison of spiritual darkness. So, this earth is still their tartarus prison, where they are reserved for final judgement in the Lake of Fire during the Great White Throne Judgement Age.
Please note that Job 1:6 which says, “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them” does not mean that Satan left earth and its atmosphere and had access to God’s throne in heaven. The Bible does not contradict itself. Revelation 12:8 says that no place was found in heaven (God’s dwelling place) any longer for Satan and his angels, when God cast them down to earth after their rebellion. We showed in Chapter 3 that Father God does everything through His Son. So, it was here on earth that Satan presented himself before the Lord, God the Son, the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ, who represented His Father God on earth. Further details about Satan and his fallen angels are given in Chapters 13 and 24. end quote" They divide the earth into a Pre-Adamic Age and an Adamic Age. Thus the war in heaven and the RA and SIN with angels became a Pre-Adamic Age, before Creation of earth for Adam took place. Since GOD creates RA for Sinners, and TOV for sinless creations, obviously both types of worlds can exist simultaneously , and this is what the Genesis account is saying? Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on May 30, 2021 18:14:53 GMT -5
I quote" Here is a link to a couple writing some things, some I totally disagree with, but others seem OK, it may help you
What is the purpose of this post - you do not accept it as a reference - yet you post it as what - supportning SDA dosctrine as what - attacking Gnostice Vhristianity and the Reality of the Archon as what - a waste of time Mr serious
The truth of the Bible is that Satan and his angels sinned by rebelling against God during the Pre-Adamic
I am the one with the First Age of Gen 1:1-3 – you argued against me
Age, when they rose up from the earth to heaven to try to usurp God’s throne. God cast them back down to earth and completely destroyed all Pre-Adamic life on earth. The earth was flooded, thrown into complete darkness and frozen, and God confined Satan and his fallen angels to this dark, chaotic and ruined earth (Genesis 1:2). It was the earth, in this state, which was tartarus, the physical and spiritual prison of darkness for Satan and his fallen angels.
From earth to heaven – then back to earth ? Just how is this consistent with the bulk of scripture – or your precious Rev 12:7 that comes with Rev 12:3
When God renewed the face of the earth and its heaven (earth’s atmosphere) at the beginning of the Adamic Age (Genesis 1:3-31), approximately six thousand years ago, Satan and his fallen angels received a relative degree of physical freedom when they became the spirits of the air, able to roam the earth’s surface to tempt and deceive mankind.
Scripture please – this is just the opinion of a man – where is you scripture?
However, their movement is still confined to earth and its heaven (earth’s atmosphere) and they remain chained in a prison of spiritual darkness. So, this earth is still their tartarus prison, where they are reserved for final judgement in the Lake of Fire during the Great White Throne Judgement Age.
So – earth has been Catholic Hell since Gen 1:2 This is very close to a Gnostic saying – physical creation is the corruption
This would make Eden a sequested location within hell on earth - as I say You claim Eden was earth - but then it changed into not-Eden Which doctrien do you hold today - flip flopper
Please note that Job 1:6 which says, “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them” does not mean that Satan left earth and its atmosphere and had access to God’s throne in heaven.
So your God is a biological life form on physical earth? I would call that Jesus Christ - you argued against me
The Bible does not contradict itself. Revelation 12:8 says that no place was found in heaven (God’s dwelling place) any longer for Satan and his angels, when God cast them down to earth after their rebellion.
So – the story of Job and all those men took place In Gen 1:2?
We showed in Chapter 3 that Father God does everything through His Son. So, it was here on earth that Satan presented himself before the Lord, God the Son,
Because they are the same God – Trinity – only One true God
the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ,
What is pre-incarnate Jesus Christ, - do you now accept reincarnation – or do you finally that man is alive and well long before conception ‘pre-incarnate man’ – we are in His image and likeness
And why can’t you just post scripture to present your scriptural facts
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2021 19:03:21 GMT -5
D" And why can’t you just post scripture to present your scriptural facts
R you are right, the quote I posted from David and Zoe did not help you.
Sorry I posted it.
D"A - SDA doctrine, as Robert has presents it, says before Eve took a bit - there was no sin in the WORLD and therefore no ra in the world - because ra is always the result of sin
Is this correct Robert?
R" Yes
D" B - Then he has another side doctrine suggesting that cherub chata and his "Fallen Angels" are on the earth - before Eve so the serpent can temp Eve
A and B are contradictory – it cannot be both
R" Can't we have a Creation modified by GOD to include some RA from the darkness on earth, because some angels had sinned before?
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on May 31, 2021 5:42:27 GMT -5
You keep telling me that Judaism has no source for the original sin But you have two sources – and play off each one when it fits your doctrine
Sin was in the world before Eve or not? If sin was in the world before Eve – as scripture says - and your ra is always a result of sin – the ra was in the world before Eve
So why is a shark not allowed to eat with teeth only designed by God for meat? So why is a virus prevented from obeying the Lord by going forth and multiplying?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2021 15:56:54 GMT -5
Is sin and ra so difficult for you to understand?
When the angels who were sinning were banished to earth, what happens to earth? God removed his presence from earth, and everything died, the living things died, God also removed the atmosphere also, and God removed light so the earth went down to almost absolute zero. Cold barren, formless rock, BUT full of sinning angels on it.
So what happens when RA exists on earth naturally? everything dies, all living creatures died, earth became void and formless. Only sinning angels allowed to live despite their ra state because God is mercy, and allowed them living for a reason, to resolve the sin problem.
When God came to earth to create Creation around earth, with another universe for earth, the sinning angels pondered why? Than came the humans and the loving family of divinity explained to them about these sinning angels, and how GOD restricted the agents of sinning to one place, one tree and one command.
Notice GOD limits the agents of sinning all the time. You see this in 1 Kings 22, when a sinner wants to do sinning. God is not a source of sinning. Scripture does not explain where sinning came from, only that one closest angel decided to do sinning.
The sharks in the sinless waters did no ra, because the laws of Creation were set under the prince of Creation, who was Adam.
Ge 1:26 ¶ And God said, ... let them have dominion
There is the title of prince here, the ruler who rules.
God gave the Creation to Adam to be a prince to rule over Creation. And as long as Adam never sinned, no ra would come from the Creation. The sinning angels were powerless because their sinning did nothing powerful because God was not present or affected by their sinning. Nor were any sinning angels helping God in His Creation, despite the Gnostic writings saying otherwise.
D"So why is a virus prevented from obeying the Lord by going forth and multiplying?
I get the impression viruses may have had a TOV function before sin happened via Adam. I get the impression if the immune system and the error checking systems, in a sinless world would have had nothing to do, the immune system is huge, doing nothing in a sinless world? SO virus code might have been written by God to stimulate the immune system and even error code checking systems? a functional purpose?
I really do not know Dave, nor do I have all the answers...
D"So why is a shark not allowed to eat with teeth only designed by God for meat?
R" every dog in PNG is vegetarian, and use their canine teeth to rip coconut husks open. Still do this to this day. Go figure. Who says long teeth are for flesh? Only theories of man, who have little respect for God.
"not allowed to eat
R" Who says not allowed? Animals such as Caoco parrots of NZ use their beaks to eat roots of trees or backs of sheep, even to this day, but choose tree roots rather than back of sheep, yet they can freely choose one over the other, so who says not allowed?
Inside the biology are aven seeds of genetics which switch on propensities or habits of tov or ra, so these aven seeds influence the animal mind to make a animal behaviour.
There are living words inside animals too, which carry aven seeds of DNA code. These letters make words and if any letters are missing, the system of behaviour can change.
D" You keep telling me that Judaism has no source for the original sin
R" Judaism does not see sinning angels in the torah, from OT times. They ignore Ezekiel remember? One of their prophets who wrote holy and sacred words about cherub who did chata?
Shalom, and enjoy your day obeying the Lord with all your light you have.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 2, 2021 5:17:03 GMT -5
Is sin and ra so difficult for you to understand?
When the angels who were sinning were banished to earth, Just keep repeating your Catholic garbage
what happens to earth? – Nothing – it just became their domain / their home
God removed his presence from earth, God is ubiquitous / omnipresent
and everything died, the living things died, YES – neg-entropy (creation) comes with entropy – it is God’s Law of nature Physical creation is always in a flux between building up and wearing down Not just biology – but even the rocks and the stars – all have life spans – all have a beginning and an end This is why the Cathars saw physical creation as the corruption – nothing endures
So what happens when RA exists on earth naturally? everything dies Yes! – I just said that
Only sinning angels allowed to live despite their ra state because God is mercy, and allowed them living for a reason, to resolve the sin problem. So – all the angels that still served and praised God died? When did God recreate them – or are they still dead?
Notice GOD limits the agents of sinning all the time. YES Robert – God is in control – you say it yet doubt it because you think satan is ruling you and everything around you
The sharks in the sinless waters did no ra, Because God made no Law telling then they couldnlt be as they were designed to be
R" every dog in PNG is vegetarian, and use their canine teeth to rip coconut husks open. Still do this to this day. Go figure. Who says long teeth are for flesh? Only theories of man, who have little respect for God. (google) Many people believe dogs are carnivores. In fact, dogs are omnivores, and even wolves in the wild derive nutrition from both plant and animal sources.[/font]
Please check you facts – you just twist everything
R" Judaism does not see sinning angels in the torah, from OT times. They ignore Ezekiel remember? One of their prophets who wrote holy and sacred words about cherub who did chata?
Correct – if you limit yourself only to the ahl Satan is an angel – either a volunteer or as a designated role – in the service of the Lord In the ahl – who is the evil spoilers – evil spirits – belzeebul – and the shedim The agl makes this extremely clear – everyone understood exactly who these entities were Jesus spoke of them as if everyone knew The people and the Rabbis of the day all understood Because King Solomon was always a part of the Temple Scrolls Because Enoch was part of the Temple Scrolls
No one ever tried to destroy that information until Rome decided to Edit the Faith to make it Rome centric
They ignore Ezekiel remember? If you limit yourself only to the ahl Ezk 28 and Isa 14 are all about man/ Mankind / every man / any man
holy and sacred words about cherub who did chata and here ya go again back to you favorite spot – your god of evil that rule the way you think
Precept upon precept - Remember Two words taken from two different dentences does not rewrite the bulk of scripture
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 14:07:28 GMT -5
D" Ezk 28 and Isa 14 are all about man/ Mankind / every man / any manR" Really? what is " cherub" doing in the passage than? Rev 12 is not about man, but you ignore this too. Say it was not a war, just a bustle. Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: The war continues on earth. If it doesn't why does Jesus say depart from me, ye cursed human ones, prepared also for the devil and his angels? Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (KJV) Funny how this bustle is still considered a war on earth, and the devil and his angels war over the woman (the HS administrating the church of the saints) where humans guard the ten commandments of the Father and have the testimony of salvation in Jesus. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Some angels (one third of them in fact) left their places in heaven and are banished on earth in chains, awaiting to be extinguished at the second death. How many verses must I get before you see a different view? D" Two words taken from two different sentences does not rewrite the bulk of scriptureR really? Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. (who is thou? a cherub?)O so why whittle away the sentences because this passage is NOT speaking entirely of a cherub? So GOD should have written cherub every time for readers who doubt? I see a simple sentence of four words " and thou hast sinned" who is thou Dave? Hebrew does not write sentences anyhow, they do not have full stops or capitals to indicate sentences. The tent peg letter "and" may mean something and the "at" also suggest a direct object in the flow of words. But you so twist words, and now you insist the words should be written in one sentence. Go on and doubt. D" Two words taken from two different sentences does not rewrite the bulk of scriptureR" I would have loved to have discussed faith with you, you say we walk in the spirit, like some immortal soul who gnosis the Lord. Is that it? Where does Scripture say salvation is simply to gnosis the Lord? Sure I get Paul had a light bulb experience, but Scripture say the saints live by their amanuah, not gnosis the Lord. And how many verses explain amanuah correctly for the bulk of Scripture? One verse. You would ignore that critical verse also like the millions of websites out there do. But Ellen White doesn't ignore it. How is this possible? because God told her. That is what a prophet is, a messenger from God. A prophet writes down messages from God, so you would expect the messages to be as deep as GOD is deep. For example how many websites out there see the cela rock of Jesus? Google " cela rock of Jesus" and see what websites you get? Only mine spiritualsprings.org {RC 353.5} Our heavenly Father has the power of turning the flinty rock into life-giving and refreshing streams. We shall never know, until we are face to face with God, . . . how many burdens He has borne for us, and how many burdens He would have been glad to bear if, with childlike faith, we had brought them to Him.--Signs of the Times, Sept. 10, 1896. {RC 353.6}How does Ellen White know to write the Father is the tsuwr flint rock? Read our study spiritualsprings.org/ss-1067.htmGoogle "the Father is the tsuwr flint rock" yields 1000 results. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 3, 2021 6:55:53 GMT -5
D"Ezk 28 and Isa 14 are all about man/ Mankind / every man / any man R" Really? what is "cherub" doing in the passage than?
So every translation that exist is corrupt – with variations in word choices and syntax You cannot even decide which scripture to even read – you find fault with ever translation – you find fault with every Christiant precept – BUT YOU HAVE ONE WORD THA IS GOLD – word man
Rev 12 is not about man, but you ignore this too. Say it was not a war, just a bustle. No Robert Rev 12:7 is not about a man – and Rev 12:3 is not about an angel Only you and your Catholic friend believe in a weak God and a strong satan
The God of the Jews – My God - is omnipotent If God told Michael to cast the archon out of heaven – they were gone right now No contest between my God and anyone Who can stand against God – NO ONE!
If you want to call the word of Rev 12:7 a WAR – OK I will agree A war that took all of 2 seconds – and it was over!
Only you and your Catholic friend believe in a weak God and a strong satan It is an insult to the One True God to even think anyone has the power to stand against Him Ridicules – satan promoting SDA garbage straight from Catholic Catechism
The war continues on earth. YES Robert – the war is on earth – Gen 3:15 And the war is between man and WORLD and man and archon Man vrs WORLD – that would be (yester ra) vrs (yester tov) – In case you pretend not to grasp my meaning
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: If it doesn't why does Jesus say depart from me, ye cursed human ones, prepared also for the devil and his angels?
You spent months declaring you did not grasp the concept of the Left Hand The Right Hand is masculine and is the hand of instruction and salvation The Left Hand is the hand of mystery and correction This is a basic Jewish precept – a basic Jewish teaching – a basic Jewish principle You denied this concept with all your breath – now you invoke the very scripture to make a point Just more of that Robert academic seriouness
Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Yes Robert – Gen 3:15 makes this clear – the seed of Eve vrs the seed of the BEAST/ Dragon But – you are trapped by single words - It says satan’s seed But you satan is an angel – and angels cannot have offspring (genetic seed as you say the Hebrew word demands)
So – either your view of satan is wrong – or scripture is wrong No surprise to me – you choose satan
Funny how this bustle is still considered a war on earth, and the devil and his angels war Gen 3:15 The Contest takes place on earth And you say it correctly this time – the devil and his offspring NOT YOUR SATAN
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Some angels (one third of them in fact) left their places in heaven and are banished on earth in chains, awaiting to be extinguished at the second death.
1- - the 1/3rd concept is just Catholic speak 2- most Christians accept scriptural precepts without stumbeling over individual words 3- ahl Temple scroll tell us exactly who these sinning angels are are – where they are - and their future use 4- They are the bane elihiym and Grigori (Nephilim) from Gen 6 5- They are held in chains in the 4th heaven – awaiting to be used by God once again in Rev 9 Too bad you deny scripture
How many verses must I get before you see a different view? I will never bow to your satan or your SDA satanology
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. (who is thou? a cherub?)
O so why whittle away the sentences because this passage is NOT speaking entirely of a cherub? So GOD should have written cherub every time for readers who doubt?
3 Chapters in a row – 83 verses in a row – are all about The King of Tyre
I see a simple sentence of four words "and thou hast sinned" who is thou Dave? Rom 5:12 So then, just as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, in the same way death spread to all men because all sinned. Rom 5:13 For up until the Torah, sin was in the world; but sin does not count as sin when there is no law.
Answer = man. Eve, any man, every man, mankind
D"Two words taken from two different sentences does not rewrite the bulk of scripture It must be precept upon precept, line upon line – all of scripture is one complete story and does not contradict itself 1 Chr 21 + 2 Sam 24 – either God is you satan Himself – or satan is an employee of God 1 Kings 22 – the satan there is a volunteer in the service of the Lord The entire Book of Job – has satan doing God’s Will Every Jew at the time of Christ knew exactly who Beelzebub was and his shedim You deny their vert existence – you want to keep their reality hidden You deny Paul’s Principalities – which scripture calls our real struggle It is obvious whose side you are on I know who you are
R" I would have loved to have discussed faith with you, you say we walk in the spirit, like some immortal soul who gnosis the Lord. Is that it? Where does Scripture say salvation is simply to gnosis the Lord? No – it says all believers are saved More of that academic seriouness? It also says all men are judged according to their deeds, works, and fruit (believers or not) It also say some are call as First Fruits – a precept you deny
Sure I get Paul had a light bulb experience, WOW Robert – what respect you have for that experience
but Scripture say the saints live by their amanuah, YES Robert – believers are saved – if they really believe And if you hold a belief with strong conviction through time – you can call it faith
but Scripture say the saints live by their amanuah, not gnosis the Lord. You don’t wish to - know the Lord - walk and talk with Him in a personal relationship All you want to do is your daily worship ritual – sounds pagan to me
And how many verses explain amanuah correctly for the bulk of Scripture? One verse. Each and every verse is correct!
You would ignore that critical verse also like the millions of websites out there do. But Ellen White doesn't ignore it. How is this possible? because God told her. Some one told her to preach that satan is a god – that is correct – that I do believe
Google "cela rock of Jesus" and see what websites you get? Only mine spiritualsprings.org I put this in my scripture search engine – it is not scripture – it is a manmade word therefore I can mock it as you mock the Trinity – I employ the Robert Method
{RC 353.5} Signs of the Times, Sept. 10, 1896. {RC 353.6} Is not scripture
How does Ellen White know to write the Father is the tsuwr flint rock? Read our study spiritualsprings.org/ss-1067.htm Why would a Christian want to read anything suggesting God is weak and satan is strong
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2021 15:47:31 GMT -5
D" No – it says all believers are savedR"How is a believer saved Dave? D" Each and every verse is correct!R" OK explain to me how you get more and more amanuah (faith) from God? D" I put this in my scripture search engine – it is not scripture – it is a manmade word therefore I can mock it as you mock the Trinity – I employ the Robert MethodR " 1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. What Rock? Ex 17:6 Behold, I will stand <`amad> before <paniym> thee there upon the rock <tsuwr> in Horeb <Choreb>; and thou shalt smite <nakah> the rock <tsuwr>, and there shall come <yatsa'> water <mayim> out of it, that the people <`am> may drink <shathah>. Nu 20:11 And Moses <Mosheh> lifted up <ruwm> his hand <yad>, and with his rod <matteh> he smote <nakah> the rock <cela`> twice <pa`am>: and the water <mayim> came out <yatsa'> abundantly <rab>, and the congregation <`edah> drank <shathah>, How are these two rocks mentioned in this account? Ps 78:15 He clave <baqa`> the rocks <tsuwr> in the wilderness <midbar>, and gave them drink <shaqah> as out of the great <rab> depths <t@howm>. 16 He brought <yatsa'> streams <nazal> also out of the rock <cela`>, and caused waters <mayim> to run down <yarad> like rivers <nahar>. Because both rocks followed them, or One being assume the functional role of both rocks? How many prophets or torah scriptures or Jewish writings speak of the Father as the tsuwr rock and the Messiah as the cela rock? This is not known in the SDA literature, only hidden in Ellen White and only of you read the Hebrew behind the passages she selects and shows readers. I go to this trouble to look for inspiration not found in common religions, to prove that GOD is truly able to inspire his messages and thus messengers. A picture of the two rocks photoed by Dr Kim, in Sudan. Notice tsuwr underneath the cela rock, the palm shape is significant to Jews, the cela rock is huge, Moses is about as high as the letter e in Eben. Notice the thumb also shaped. Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 5, 2021 6:38:23 GMT -5
D"Each and every verse is correct! R" OK explain to me how you get more and more amanuah (faith) from God?1- stop pretending God is a physical man – that has to act like a physical man 2- stop doubting the spirit – and allow it to speak to you 3- stop thinking satan is a god that is equal in power with the Creator 4- stop insulting the HS or Christ by calling them angels 5- and you could try stop telling God what He can or cannot do 6- Stop preaching that Question #5 – If 1 Chr 21 if filled with disobedience – ra – and sin with your satan; doesn’t this make your God of 2 Sam 24 disobedient to Himself – doing ra – and sinning?Hmm? You have to … not read the verses as they are written,
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 17:10:32 GMT -5
D"1- stop pretending God is a physical man – that has to act like a physical man R" WHo says I do?
Ge 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image,
An image is a simile, something that looks and functions like humans, WITHOUT being human or of matter like humans are of matter.
Therefore The Father and the HS can often do similes of human functions.
Jesus on the other hand added humanity to his divinity, and thus is no simile of human functions. Jesus is able to function as humans do, yet is also divine.
D" 2- stop doubting the spirit – and allow it to speak to you R" Eze 3:12 Then the spirit took me up, and I heard behind me a voice ... Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, Ro 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,
I do allow the conscience of God to speak to me daily.
D" 3- stop thinking satan is a god that is equal in power with the Creator R" I have never said that? Satan is only a spoiler who spoils, not a Creator at all. When man pretends to GMO the DNA, are they creators or spoilers?
D" 4- stop insulting the HS or Christ by calling them angels R" I have never said that, malak means messenger and cherub means angel. I do not confuse the two Hebrew words, only the KJV does.
D" 5- and you could try stop telling God what He can or cannot do R"Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie..(KJV)
Your Gnostic writings ADD things not in torah
(1) HS can create without her usual consort... (2) angels created elements in humans (3 ) God created a RA world on purpose (not resulted from sin)
You are adding aspects of what GOD can and can't do, I stick only to the torah. Your Gnostic writings add errors to your thinking
D" 6- Stop preaching that R" I show only what the torah shows.
You add to the torah the Gnostic writings things that violate the torah. Other writings should not violate the torah.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Shalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 5, 2021 22:26:00 GMT -5
stop doubting the spirit – and allow it to speak to you I do allow the conscience of God to speak to me daily. You have spent an entire year arguing that man has no spirit – no soul – man is just biology driven around by the HS who records the memories And the only part of you that survives mortal death are your memories
You have made this argument loud and clear Double speaker flip flopper
stop thinking satan is a god that is equal in power with the Creator R" I have never said that? Satan is only a spoiler who spoils, not a Creator at all. Don’t forget your proof that stan opposes God – your war in heaven Your satan is so powerful and popular that 1/3rd of the angels created to worship and praise God choose to follow satan to their death
It is not a bustle – it is not a skirmish – or a conflict IT IS A WAR BETWEEN SATAN and GOD
Of all the 23 + 49 verses – this is your proof
I say whatever happened in rev 12:7 was NO CONTEST and over You argue it is a war – a real war of long duration – your God is weak and your satan strong
stop insulting the HS or Christ by calling them angels R" I have never said that, malak means messenger and cherub means angel. Oh - don't forget that Christ is actually the archangel Michael Names do not matter – it is not about the name – it is about the respect
Who is the Creator in the OT = God Who is the Creator in the NT = Christ Either you have two creators or God = Christ as scripture indicates John 1:1-4 – stop trying to deny scripture
Names do not matter – it is about the respect You attack upon the word of God and the word archie in Eph 6:12 Was not an attack aginst me - I knew you were in error It was not an attack uopn the Reality of the Archon It was just an attempot to cotrrupt scripture - the word of God
I know who you are
Stop preaching that R" I show only what the torah shows. Sure you do – after you filter it through Catholic Catechism and then Ellen White to come uop with a theology that most of the mainstream Christianity calls a cult
You add to the torah the Gnostic writings things that violate the torah. Other writings should not violate the torah. You add to the faith Ellen White and say she is a prophet that changes Christianity
The rest of the ahl library supplements the Torah it just isn't limited to the Rome approved edit-ion and – it just does not fit your SDA doctrine
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2021 17:05:43 GMT -5
D" You have spent an entire year arguing that man has no spirit – no soul – man is just biology driven around by the HS who records the memories And the only part of you that survives mortal death are your memories
You have made this argument loud and clear Double speaker flip flopperR" no spirit body of his own . correct. I showed you nashamah is a spirit in man, our character imparted by relationship to GOD, memories of love, as you say, recorded by the HS. the only part of you that survives mortal death are your memories of love. Yes correct. D" You argue it is a war – a real war of long duration – your God is weak and your satan strongGod normally wipes out sinning in a millionth of a second. So why is sinning allowed 6,000 years? a real war of long duration Because sin is the first time it occurs. And sinless beings are watching how God is love reacts. This reaction takes time because creatures are watching. Not because God is Not powerful. You dismiss this idea because you say the only creatures with free will is man? How weak your God is to have only man with free will? Why even Alex the gray African parrot had free will to love her master with parrot love? God has trillions of sons of God in other unfallen worlds watching. all with free will. And trillions of angels watching all with free will. D" Oh - don't forget that Christ is actually the archangel Michael
R" Who says archangel is a cherub? It's a term to describe commander of cherub. Are you saying only angels are commanders over angels? For you yes, since you have only one God, why can't the masculine expression be in charge of the angels, why does it have to be angels in charge of angels? Just because your masculine God is termed a Father does not mean it's human does it? Be logical in your statements Dave. D" Either you have two creators or God = Christ as scripture indicatesWe have one Creator creating using the energy from within three Creators. Is this not how a battery creates electrical power, from components within? D" It was just an attempt to corrupt scripture - the word of GodR" I do not do no such thing. You add Gnostic writings to the Torah to corrupt the Torah. I read only the torah using the definitions from only the torah. I am sola torah. You are not. The NT torah does not violate the OT torah. They are the same stuff, rain, teachings. D" You add to the faith Ellen White and say she is a prophet that changes ChristianityR" Prove to me Ellen White is NOT a prophet? She did not breathe while in vision. She held up in one hand a 20Kg Bible for hours and hours while in vision. She did not blink while in vision also. Her messages follow not just modern hebrew, but the Jeff Benner Ancient hebrew meanings precisely. spiritualsprings.org/ss-1061.htmProof these words studied above are not correct Hebrew. I used meanings not found in the SDA church not followed by anyone on the earth. eg : the two rocks followed Israel. D" The rest of the ahl library supplements the Torah
Does the messanic torah know that the Cela Rock is Jesus? The supplements add hundreds of rules to Sabbath keeping the torah does not? Is this fair for humans to cease on ceasing day? Do you follow these hundreds of rules for Sabbath? We follow only the Sabbath rules in the torah, not additional precepts of man. D" it just isn't limited to the Rome approved edit-ion
R" There are many Roman rules added onto the torah, the SDA does not follow. We do not have a prayer book. But I note Jews have a prayer book. Translation: "Blessed are You, LORD, our God, King of the universe, Who has sanctified us with His commandments and commanded us to light the Shabbat candle." Where does it say we are to light candles before Sabbath? Why is this a prayer? Blessed are You, LORD, our God, King of the universe, Who creates the fruit of the vine." Where does this prayer come from? Not from torah. Translation: "Blessed are You, LORD, our God, King of the universe, Who creates the lights of the fire." Where does it say GOD is a king over the universe? show me a torah verse? Do the Hebrew pray in their own words as well? Or only from the Prayer Book, like Catholics do? Here is a list of doctrines Catholics write that SDA do not follow: Unfortunately, they also hold many false and strange doctrines. Among these are the following: (a) the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon; (b) the pope is the Antichrist; (c) in the last days, Sunday worship will be “the mark of the beast”; (d) there is a future millennium in which the devil will roam the earth while Christians are with Christ in heaven; (e) the soul sleeps between death and resurrection; and (f) on the last day, after a limited period of punishment in hell, the wicked will be annihilated and cease to exist rather than be eternally damned. www.catholic.com/tract/seventh-day-adventismSHalom
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Jun 8, 2021 7:59:40 GMT -5
D"You have spent an entire year arguing that man has no spirit – no soul – man is just biology R" no spirit body of his own . correct. I showed you nashamah is a spirit in man, our character imparted by relationship to GOD, memories of love, as you say, recorded by the HS. the only part of you that survives mortal death are your memories of love. Yes correct.
It must be hard for God to save your immortal soul – when you have none Satan sure has you and your SDA cult really brainwashed about this This is a fundamental basic principle of Judaism and therefor Christianity based upon Christ
D"You argue it is a war – a real war of long duration – your God is weak and your satan strong So why is sinning allowed 6,000 years? a real war of long duration This reaction takes time because creatures are watching. Not because God is Not powerful. OH – I see – God used the ra as a tool to facilitate His Will I should have thought of that
Why even Alex the gray African parrot had free will to love her master with parrot love? Yes Robert – I have dogs and they love their master What does this have to do with the salvation of your immortal soul What does this have to do with the decision to choose God over WORLD
And trillions of angels watching all with free will. IF your angels have free will – why don’t they repent? Answer – they cannot – or scripture would fail
D"Oh - don't forget that Christ is actually the archangel Michael R" Who says archangel is a cherub? It's a term to describe commander of cherub. Are you saying only angels are commanders over angels? Who says cherub angels are angels – other angels are archangels – but you do not have different types or classes of angels =-- they are all just cherubs
For you yes, since you have only one God, why can't the masculine expression be in charge of the angels, why does it have to be angels in charge of angels? YES Robert – God is in charge of everything – the tov and the ra – I say this and scripture says this You say – God is not in control – God is just playing defense to your satan – that makes your satan in control and God is just reacting
Just because your masculine God is termed a Father does not mean it's human does it? Be logical in your statements Dave. What does this mean? You are the one who insist that God is a male – like a man – because He is called the Father I say – God the Father is androgynous – and nothing close to human / or biology / or matter of any kind Christ is the male expression
D"Either you have two creators or God = Christ as scripture indicates We have one Creator creating using the energy from within three Creators. Is this not how a battery creates electrical power, from components within?
God is not a thing of matter Why is it that you can only think of God as a thing of matter that must obey rile set for matter? Either the ahl is correct and God is the Creator – or the agl is correct and Christ is the creator
D" It was just an attempt to corrupt scripture - the word of God R" I do not do no such thing. You put a lot of effort into trying to discredit Paul – no such thing as Principalities – it just means powers in the beginning A true academic student – of course you are not trying to force SDA doctrine into the agl
I read only the torah using the definitions from only the torah. No Jew of the ahl sees your satan as the god of evil – or a leader of any type No Jew sees satan as the arch enemy of God – always opposing God This is simple not Jewish theology Without your Rev 12:7 – satan is a servant of the Lord But you add one verse that you misunderstand from the agl and suddenly the Torah is rewritten I read only the torah using the definitions from only the torah. Is a lie
I am sola torah. You are not. The NT torah does not violate the OT torah. They are the same stuff, rain, teachings. Then why is Roman Christianity at war against the Jews and Jewish theology
D"You add to the faith Ellen White and say she is a prophet that changes Christianity R" Prove to me Ellen White is NOT a prophet? Shall I make a list of all the human – other humans considered prophets What of Mohammed? Million more humans believe him a prophet over a woman What of Calvin? You are a Calvinist – was he also inspired by God?
R" There are many Roman rules added onto the torah, the SDA does not follow. Here is a list of doctrines Catholics write that SDA do not follow: (a) the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon; (b) the pope is the Antichrist; (c) in the last days, Sunday worship will be “the mark of the beast”; You have presented all of this as SDA doctrine? – your doctrine So confused – Walter Veith didn’t say any of this word for word?
(e) the soul sleeps between death and resurrection; and Depends if you die in Christ or die as a believer
(f) on the last day, after a limited period of punishment in hell, the wicked will be annihilated and cease to exist rather than be eternally damned. So the SDA denies scripture? Rev 20:14 Then death and Sheol were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. Rev 20:15 And if anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
|
|